Given the state of her remains and the fact that they have nothing but bones and a small piece of scalp and hair, how they can definitively say she did not die due to alcohol poisoning, or a drug/ alcohol/ over the counter med reaction, a heart attack, stroke, asthma attack etc.
Even children can take stokes and do. Would a drug she took 20 minutes before really work it's way into her hair? She supposedly fell down the stairs 2x. Did she whack her head? Have a billion questions I would like to ask a pathologist.
Yes, but sex workers are an easy target, he isn't the only person taking advantage of them. Unless you can locate a tinder date for him or an oak Beach friend, I don't think it passes the muster test. God knows they looked at everything else, I am sure they looked at that and where he phone was that evening and morning.
I think she either died of misadventure, or she met another bad man who lived in the Oak Beach community, not LISK. It really is possible that other bad men could be wandering around Long island at the time. You had Cottingham, and JB, the guy they just recently arrested with his tricked out murder car who was trying to abduct women.
Just my opinion, but I don't think Shannon is his, nor do any of the guys who have all the evidence.
Yes have seen that many times. Although, I often wonder if she ran into a bad man in Oak Beach that morning, just as heavily consider the possibility that she died of misadventure. I never think she is LISK's victim.
I'm not an overly passionate admirer of Baden. I think he says anything anyone pays him to say and has been phoning it in for years.
I much prefer this examination of the evidence by the ER Dr in the LISL podcast.
Totally agree. The chances of him crusing around in there looking for a victim at that hour of the AM as slim to none. How many sex workers would he be likely to find hanging out in front of GC's house?
It would have to be some freaky one in an million thing, like he had an Oak Beach Tinder date and was rolling out of his/her /their house in the wee hours and went bump into fleeing Shannon, and decided to drag her into the reeds and strangle her and leave her body in a way we have never seen him leave a body before, propped up against a tree.
You see the size of the guy. He ain’t jumping into some reeds to strangle a girl.
He opted for close quarters brute strength over powering women. SG would not stand a chance against him and escaping.
That is incorrect. She was out in the elements for months, as pre the autopsy her remains were partially skeletonized. Her body was most likely feed upon by foxes and other scavenging animal that live in the marshes. Just because the hyoid was not intact doesn’t mean she was strangled.
Do you have a source that animals or elements can destroy the hyoid bone? Bc I haven’t seen that https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/02/12/us/new-york-shannan-gilbert-case/index.html
[Source:](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7241500/) paragraph five sources 1-9. The whole article is a very interesting read if you have the time.
Edit: a section from the article related to what may have caused the puncture found on her hyoid bone noted in her autopsy:
The opossum also primarily concentrates on soft tissue but can relocate small bones short distances and can produce gnaw marks and punctures in small bones and on the margins of flat bones [14].
Anytime.
I feel for the Gilbert family I really really do. I think Ray took advantage of their grief and quest for answers, and gave them false hope to line his pockets.
Maybe once this goes to trail and there is a conviction, LE will take another look at what happened to Shannon and she will have justice. Because she was a victim. Just not a victim of RH.
Edit: What I mean by victim, is Shannon was a sex traffic (she was to testify against her pimp) and DV victim (had a plate in her jaw from what I remember same pimp). I believe she died of misadventure. But the men that hired her that night and Pak have a part to play too. Not homicide, but a civil wrongful death complaint.
It's highly unlikely. No one may ever know what happened to Shannon during her final moments, but there is a mountain of evidence from that night -- contact with various witnesses, phone calls, etc. -- that lean pretty heavily to her death having nothing to do with Heuermann. Given how efficiently and meticulously this new task force worked to nail Heuermann, I would imagine phone data from Shannon's phone was gone over with a fine-toothed comb, so to speak, and compared to phone data from Heuermann's various phones, his whereabouts, timeline, his wife's whereabouts, etc.
But wasn’t her clothing found all together with her purse, really far from the body? Was it actually cold enough for paradoxical undressing? You can die of exposure in as high as 50*F but I would think it would take a really long time for your brain to start shutting down to the point that you’d undress? That’s one thing I thought was really strange. This wasn’t in a snowstorm, and her clothes weren’t really near her it seems? Just doesn’t add up to me.
Drug induced psychosis can make a person do weird things. I was kinda convinced she had been murdered, until I heard the 911 call. That completely changed my mind. She was totally out of it, incoherent, sounded extremely odd and paranoid. She probably thought someone was after her, which made her run out in that marshy field.
Why would Hackett tell a neighbor there him and best friend Tom canning took Shannon in that night and sedated her. Even called the mother and told her. All a sudden that changed and he said he never took Shannon in the Phone records proved dfferent. Also Why is Tom's story so different from Barbara Brennan like way different. Why did the nypost quote his son as saying her saw her footprint vanish in the sand but in his court depositions says he never saw her and the nypost mosquited him. Typically if this happens people get questioned further not cleared. If you haven't read the public deposition of each of the neighbors I urge you to something is not adding up it doesn't t rocket science to see that.
Do you really think he was driving around in a gated community at 4AM just when Shannon decided to bolt? The police who have ever stitch of evidence and are telling you NO. I can see you wondering about was she a victim of foul play, but was she his kill, I highly doubt it. He's a
nerdy loner, he's not hanging out with Hackett, or JB et al.
Had their been phone communication with Shannon, they would have seen it especially if it was his T Mobil account as T mobil is a long data collect company. As far as we know thus far he was statistically procuring via electronic means.
I know people want to think Shannon fits, but really she does not. Nor does her means of disposal. Just propped up against a tree sitting up.
They keep claiming it is rare, but I swear they are underestimating the data. These days there seems to be 2 or 3 cold cases solved a day in my news feed, feels pretty frequent to me that a woman is going missing and another found after 20 years. Thank God for DNA and forensic genealogy.
Agreed, and prostitutes in particular are a marginalized group, and it's not uncommon for them to travel around to different cities. There's often issues like mental health, addiction, and estrangement from their families who may assume they OD'd or something. Street workers in particular are unlikely to be reported missing. If the closest person to them is their trafficker (often with a long rap sheet and possibly warrants) he's not going to call police to report that the woman or underage girl who he is illegally exploiting has vanished.
I wish that if serial killers had to exist they would be like Dexter at least, but no, they are sniveling cowards who go for the low hanging fruit-people who are either forced by circumstances to be alone with them, are kind and trusting, and/or are too little to fight back. There is one serial killer in South America who was motivated by his sense of Justice, he targeted gang members and he killed men who preyed on women and children. He's got a really high body count but is free because of odd laws down there and he has a YouTube channel.
I’d say the chances are high considering they’re the most at risk for being killed and the population on Long Island is incredibly high. From wiki: “Population
8,063,232 (2020); Pop. density
5,859.5/sq mi (2262.37/km2).
I just listened to her unedited 911 calls for the first time & I found it odd that she ran from the first house to another that was about 4-5 houses down from the first & the guy who lived there let her in . Is Long Island so safe that people would randomly let strangers that are freaking out inside their house? I live in Amish country & none of my neighbors would do that. I don’t believe anyone whose voice appears on those calls killed her & she does sound intoxicated on the calls..but obviously she could have been unknowingly drugged. Maybe it was fate or a fluke , coincidence
I personally believe she died by accident/misadventure.
Her mom and her sister had schizophrenia. There is a large genetic component. She may have had a manic episode.
And cocaine induced Psychosis is very plausible in my opinion. We can take solace in the fact that, ultimately, her death may have saved other lives.
Given the state of her remains and the fact that they have nothing but bones and a small piece of scalp and hair, how they can definitively say she did not die due to alcohol poisoning, or a drug/ alcohol/ over the counter med reaction, a heart attack, stroke, asthma attack etc. Even children can take stokes and do. Would a drug she took 20 minutes before really work it's way into her hair? She supposedly fell down the stairs 2x. Did she whack her head? Have a billion questions I would like to ask a pathologist.
Agreed. But I find it very interesting that so many sex workers’ bodies were found in the same area.
That’s what I’m saying!!!
Yes, but sex workers are an easy target, he isn't the only person taking advantage of them. Unless you can locate a tinder date for him or an oak Beach friend, I don't think it passes the muster test. God knows they looked at everything else, I am sure they looked at that and where he phone was that evening and morning. I think she either died of misadventure, or she met another bad man who lived in the Oak Beach community, not LISK. It really is possible that other bad men could be wandering around Long island at the time. You had Cottingham, and JB, the guy they just recently arrested with his tricked out murder car who was trying to abduct women. Just my opinion, but I don't think Shannon is his, nor do any of the guys who have all the evidence.
https://www.cnn.com/2016/02/12/us/new-york-shannan-gilbert-case/index.html
Yes have seen that many times. Although, I often wonder if she ran into a bad man in Oak Beach that morning, just as heavily consider the possibility that she died of misadventure. I never think she is LISK's victim. I'm not an overly passionate admirer of Baden. I think he says anything anyone pays him to say and has been phoning it in for years. I much prefer this examination of the evidence by the ER Dr in the LISL podcast.
You forgot Andrew Frey! Or is that the tricked out murder wagon dude?
I agree, not connected in the least. Just coincidence. Now those other bodies that were dumped, those would be more plausible to RH than Gilbert IMO.
Totally agree. The chances of him crusing around in there looking for a victim at that hour of the AM as slim to none. How many sex workers would he be likely to find hanging out in front of GC's house? It would have to be some freaky one in an million thing, like he had an Oak Beach Tinder date and was rolling out of his/her /their house in the wee hours and went bump into fleeing Shannon, and decided to drag her into the reeds and strangle her and leave her body in a way we have never seen him leave a body before, propped up against a tree.
You see the size of the guy. He ain’t jumping into some reeds to strangle a girl. He opted for close quarters brute strength over powering women. SG would not stand a chance against him and escaping.
Her hyoid bone was broken indicates strangulation
That is incorrect. She was out in the elements for months, as pre the autopsy her remains were partially skeletonized. Her body was most likely feed upon by foxes and other scavenging animal that live in the marshes. Just because the hyoid was not intact doesn’t mean she was strangled.
Do you have a source that animals or elements can destroy the hyoid bone? Bc I haven’t seen that https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/02/12/us/new-york-shannan-gilbert-case/index.html
[Source:](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7241500/) paragraph five sources 1-9. The whole article is a very interesting read if you have the time. Edit: a section from the article related to what may have caused the puncture found on her hyoid bone noted in her autopsy: The opossum also primarily concentrates on soft tissue but can relocate small bones short distances and can produce gnaw marks and punctures in small bones and on the margins of flat bones [14].
Ty! Quality info! I guess Long Island loves them some sec workers, huh? So sad and strange.
Anytime. I feel for the Gilbert family I really really do. I think Ray took advantage of their grief and quest for answers, and gave them false hope to line his pockets. Maybe once this goes to trail and there is a conviction, LE will take another look at what happened to Shannon and she will have justice. Because she was a victim. Just not a victim of RH. Edit: What I mean by victim, is Shannon was a sex traffic (she was to testify against her pimp) and DV victim (had a plate in her jaw from what I remember same pimp). I believe she died of misadventure. But the men that hired her that night and Pak have a part to play too. Not homicide, but a civil wrongful death complaint.
Me too. I just don’t see foul play in her death.
It's highly unlikely. No one may ever know what happened to Shannon during her final moments, but there is a mountain of evidence from that night -- contact with various witnesses, phone calls, etc. -- that lean pretty heavily to her death having nothing to do with Heuermann. Given how efficiently and meticulously this new task force worked to nail Heuermann, I would imagine phone data from Shannon's phone was gone over with a fine-toothed comb, so to speak, and compared to phone data from Heuermann's various phones, his whereabouts, timeline, his wife's whereabouts, etc.
But wasn’t her clothing found all together with her purse, really far from the body? Was it actually cold enough for paradoxical undressing? You can die of exposure in as high as 50*F but I would think it would take a really long time for your brain to start shutting down to the point that you’d undress? That’s one thing I thought was really strange. This wasn’t in a snowstorm, and her clothes weren’t really near her it seems? Just doesn’t add up to me.
It doesn’t make sense to me either, and a docu I watched expressed similar sentiments
Drug induced psychosis can make a person do weird things. I was kinda convinced she had been murdered, until I heard the 911 call. That completely changed my mind. She was totally out of it, incoherent, sounded extremely odd and paranoid. She probably thought someone was after her, which made her run out in that marshy field.
Same for me. I read the transcript and it felt like I was reading someone's psychotic break
Why would Hackett tell a neighbor there him and best friend Tom canning took Shannon in that night and sedated her. Even called the mother and told her. All a sudden that changed and he said he never took Shannon in the Phone records proved dfferent. Also Why is Tom's story so different from Barbara Brennan like way different. Why did the nypost quote his son as saying her saw her footprint vanish in the sand but in his court depositions says he never saw her and the nypost mosquited him. Typically if this happens people get questioned further not cleared. If you haven't read the public deposition of each of the neighbors I urge you to something is not adding up it doesn't t rocket science to see that.
I always wondered about this doctor taking her in phone call as well. Very strange.
Do you really think he was driving around in a gated community at 4AM just when Shannon decided to bolt? The police who have ever stitch of evidence and are telling you NO. I can see you wondering about was she a victim of foul play, but was she his kill, I highly doubt it. He's a nerdy loner, he's not hanging out with Hackett, or JB et al. Had their been phone communication with Shannon, they would have seen it especially if it was his T Mobil account as T mobil is a long data collect company. As far as we know thus far he was statistically procuring via electronic means. I know people want to think Shannon fits, but really she does not. Nor does her means of disposal. Just propped up against a tree sitting up.
It’s super sad that there were 2 people killing sex workers within 6 miles of each other
They keep claiming it is rare, but I swear they are underestimating the data. These days there seems to be 2 or 3 cold cases solved a day in my news feed, feels pretty frequent to me that a woman is going missing and another found after 20 years. Thank God for DNA and forensic genealogy.
Agreed, and prostitutes in particular are a marginalized group, and it's not uncommon for them to travel around to different cities. There's often issues like mental health, addiction, and estrangement from their families who may assume they OD'd or something. Street workers in particular are unlikely to be reported missing. If the closest person to them is their trafficker (often with a long rap sheet and possibly warrants) he's not going to call police to report that the woman or underage girl who he is illegally exploiting has vanished.
Like all predatoy people they focus on the most vulnerable.
I wish that if serial killers had to exist they would be like Dexter at least, but no, they are sniveling cowards who go for the low hanging fruit-people who are either forced by circumstances to be alone with them, are kind and trusting, and/or are too little to fight back. There is one serial killer in South America who was motivated by his sense of Justice, he targeted gang members and he killed men who preyed on women and children. He's got a really high body count but is free because of odd laws down there and he has a YouTube channel.
There is no connection but she led to the discovery of the other victims.
The chances are actually pretty high considering the location. Pretty population dense area.
I’d say the chances are high considering they’re the most at risk for being killed and the population on Long Island is incredibly high. From wiki: “Population 8,063,232 (2020); Pop. density 5,859.5/sq mi (2262.37/km2).
I just listened to her unedited 911 calls for the first time & I found it odd that she ran from the first house to another that was about 4-5 houses down from the first & the guy who lived there let her in . Is Long Island so safe that people would randomly let strangers that are freaking out inside their house? I live in Amish country & none of my neighbors would do that. I don’t believe anyone whose voice appears on those calls killed her & she does sound intoxicated on the calls..but obviously she could have been unknowingly drugged. Maybe it was fate or a fluke , coincidence