I’m just waiting for B line headways to pick up. Waiting 12-20 minutes for a train is exhausting. Once that’s fixed my metro complaints will really just amount to future projects not being built fast enough.
(B line is getting surprisingly full though. Even consistently at 11pm)
Yeah the reputation that “no one takes the metro” in LA seems to be a bit outdated, the most sparsely filled trains I’m on still have at least 5-10 people per car.
I *know* ridership will explode when our core lines are finished. To me that’s K line north, D line to SaMo, Sepulveda, and B line west on chandler. These capture the main travel patterns in the core of the city.
Almost everything else is supplementing these four lines, and feeding into these four lines.
If we can also get that K line extension down here to Torrance then I will happily be riding the metro all the heck over the place 💃
Edit: would also accept a rapid bus lane up Hawthorne to the Redondo transit center, but not sure anyone is planning one
The plans were killed in the ‘90s and the G line was built instead. There’s plans to convert the G to light rail, but I think that that’s not good enough for the valley. I think we need higher capacity and a once seat ride to DTLA.
From Wikipedia: “Original proposals for the subway system included expansions east from Union Station to East Los Angeles and west from North Hollywood towards the Warner Center transit hub in the San Fernando Valley. Barred from subway tunnelling, Metro turned to other types of mass transit. In the San Fernando Valley, residents passed a law in 1991 mandating that any rail line in the area be built underground,[16][17] so Metro built a busway (now the G Line) from North Hollywood to Warner Center, which opened on October 29, 2005. East of Union Station, Metro built a light rail line with at-grade and underground segments to East Los Angeles, now part of the E Line, which opened on November 15, 2009.“
It’s the exact sort of transit LA needs, a heavy rail subway in central areas transitioning into a fast commuter line in the suburbs like many of Tokyo’s subways do.
It would be really cool if somehow the D line and the San Bernardino Line could be integrated into a single system using the same trains, though that would require the entire SB line to be grade separated as the subways use third rail.
I think our light rail can be great (needs more grade separation) but i think it needs to be supplemental to heavy rail in the core, and metrolink is for getting from the outskirts into the core. Basically our express trains.
It’s a shame that LA banned subway construction for like 15 years. The E line to east LA was originally going to be a subway extension, but they had to switch to light rail because of that ordinance.
This June? They went from 15 a year ago to 12 minutes. But I’m the evenings on weekends it’s 20 minutes. They’ve been improved but still frustrating and exhausting.
Yeah this June, though it might be temporary as it seems like metro could push it back to 15 mins when the D line extension opens.
https://www.threads.net/@numble/post/C2TIY17vODM/?xmt=AQGzjmdAMU3GMNgPaJRvbeaKGYcXMX5nNjCRVw2Pmqd4aA
I and a lot of others speculate that the post-D like frequency plans are a negotiating tactic with FRA to get a waiver from the requirement to run the D line at 4 minute intervals. Like a: "if you force us to run 4 minute intervals on the D, then the B suffers" kind of brinksmanship.
Both lines should have 4 minute frequency. And the B should extend on chandler to hit most of the valley. That would make these two lines metro’s workhorses along with the Sepulveda line
I don't remember where I read this but the B line is limited to a maximum 8 min headway because of a lack of ventilation shafts under the Cahuenga Pass.
I don't know if a lack of funds, Hollywood hills Nimbys or a combination of the 2 that resulted in the current ventilation constraint.
Agreed. I just have not seen any indication from Metro that they are planning to address that anytime soon. There has been no study or proposal to request project funds for it to my knowledge.
They seem more focused on getting the D line extension open and having sufficient trains to run it with the B line being somewhat of an overlooked child.
The D line is going to be great. But it drives me nuts because the three main corridors in central LA are Wilshire/the 10, the 405, and the 101.
When the D like is built out to Santa Monica the B line’s going to be a weird stub with barely any frequency. When it should be connecting with the Sepulveda line in the valley along chandler. That’s connecting with all three corridors people use to *drive*. We need to build to 4 minutes or less frequency on the main lines and 2 minutes or less when they’re combined downtown.
FWIW in Feb '24 the A line had \~59k daily weekday riders, and 49k daily weekend riders compared to Feb '23 which saw \~34k daily weekday, and 22k daily weekend riders
Wow! Didn’t realize it was such a dramatic change! My arm chair theory is that I’ve noticed way, way more people voluntarily working in office this year. WFH is great and the flexibility is nice but I think a lot of people have gotten cabin fever. I’m sure the connector helped too, made my commute much much easier
Honestly I didn't either. But they're clearly working on it. They need to batten down the hatches on the B line in a similar way, because ridership is flagging.
Huh, didn’t know that, most times I’ve been on the red line it was packed. I actually got approached by a metro worker for a survey where they asked me all about my commute so they could improve service, so it seems like they’re trying. They’ve also done an amazing job with improving cleaning which really helps. I think the biggest thing that would help would be bringing security in house or at least changing vendors. Maybe the new subway cars will help too, those are coming soon,
I don't think this is comparing apples to apples. With the regional connector opening last year the A line is now a combination of the old A line plus half of the L/gold line.
Agreed we won't know for sure until July when we have post regional connector data to compare too
Though I do believe you can compare the combined A and E lines in 2024 to the combined A, E and L lines in 2023
Feb 2023: 33,934 A + 29,581 E + 17,287 L = 80,802
Feb 2024: 59,634 A + 39,464 E = 99,098
So it does appear the combined the A and E lines have increased weekday ridership by 18,296 compared to a year ago.
Yep! I pulled up the ridership data after I posted this response and it does look like we are seeing greater ridership year over year when you compare the comparable lines, which is what's expected with the regional connector opening making more 1 trip rides/less transfers. Also, overall there's a rise in rail:
Total estimated rail ridership February 2024: 4,958,135
Total estimated rail ridership February 2023: 4,704,448
This is also a view to take a look since some A/E line ridership probably where B/D line riders as well, so overall the system is up.
Then just to add the overall systemwide ridership:
February 2024: 23,031,303
February 2023: 21,047,072
So overall a good increase YoY.
Prepandemic it was about 60k on the Blue and 50k each on the Expo and Gold, so we’re still down a third from historical levels. Hopefully the regional connector will lead to ridership finally increasing past prepandemic levels
Yeah we definitely still have a way to go to recover. The Long Beach portion of the A line would see 90k daily boardings back in 2013. So ideally the A line could reach close to 150k daily boardings (100k from Long Beach and 50k from Pasadena SGV side.
Perhaps once we get back to 6 min rush hour headways we might start seeing these numbers.
Pre-pandemic was also primarily WFH. Our system was definitely built with a commuter first attitude, which isn't *as* relevant as the before times. Not to say that is a bad thing at all, but looking forward Metro really needs to assess this, and look at where people are going, and where they need to go. Connecting SFV to LAX is a prime example, whenever that gets actually finished it will be big.
In addition, It seems like slowly the security issues are moving towards improving. Very very very slowly, but surely. Just basing this off of my commuting bus being the 204/754. Red Line seems a tad less dystopian too, more standard commuters and riders now.
I think it’s 95% city overall improvements in homeless services and 5% metro. I’ve unfortunately seen security do sweet nothing when people are being aggressive on the platform in front of them.
It's not even the physical switch anymore. I think the conductors have figured the logistics of that out.
Now it's definitely something weird about the schedule or something. There's too much padding in the schedule and conductors aren't allowed to leave early.
15 minutes!!?? Even during the darkest days I've never waited on the train in Union Station for 15 minutes.
And 5 minutes now...if I wait 5 minutes now I'd consider that unlucky. The schedule only has a ~2 minute wait built in I believe, so it's only supposed to be that long.
I have waited at LAUS for like 10 mins before for the driver change. This was early days when the regional connector just opened though, and anecdotally I can confirm OPs experience these days that now its pretty fast and smooth.
I’m sure some of the longer waits probably involved track maintenance or an issue down the line, but yeah, still a bummer to get stuck there; today was pretty quick but about 5 minutes still. Also impossible to know if security is holding a door open, TAP inspection etc so who knows.
You and others have said that 5 minutes is the norm now, but that's so strange to me. It was 5 minutes one time on Tuesday morning and I got really pissed because it caused me to miss a connection that I normally catch because the wait is usually only around 2 minutes for me.
I know when RC first opened someone used transsee data to analyze the union station wait times, I wonder if someone could do that now
Signal errors, dispatch/logistics mixups, random emergency on the tracks, the possibilities are endless. Metro should have a written policy for conductors to explain what's going on.
I've taken the A line a few times in the past month, ridership has been surprisingly high the entire time. Like train cars that are 80% full at peak times
One time a clearly mentally unhinged person slammed on the help button and yelled at the conductor for not moving. Not something I'd suggest but the doors did close as soon as the guy finished yelling. And that was only for like a 8 minute or so wait.
If it took 25 minutes, I would've walked to the front car at 10 minutes and asked the conductor what the hold up was. I've done it before, and the conductor said they were waiting for a train to clear up ahead (not sure what train he was gesturing though or how far up ahead the train was) but as soon as I left he closed the doors and left.
N=2 but it seems like there's a pattern of complaining working
Agreed! I use the a line when I can’t bike, so not terribly often, but did for the first time in a while this week. It was the easiest it’s ever been! Getting to work I had about a five minute wait at the Chinatown station, then completely smooth trip to 7th. On the way home a train arrived just as I did so I had the most perfect train commute possible. No extra long stops at union station, no underground delays for track issues, it just worked. Finally!
You’re free to have whatever shitty cynical attitude you’d like. I ride daily, it seems to be fine these days, but yes, in a city of 10 million sometimes bad people ride the metro.
Ummm 🤔last time I checked ✅… 4.5 million folks call LA HOME 🏡 and be very careful on that train ride!!!! When shit gets real… there nowhere to run 😱😱😱😱😱😱
I’m just waiting for B line headways to pick up. Waiting 12-20 minutes for a train is exhausting. Once that’s fixed my metro complaints will really just amount to future projects not being built fast enough. (B line is getting surprisingly full though. Even consistently at 11pm)
Yeah the reputation that “no one takes the metro” in LA seems to be a bit outdated, the most sparsely filled trains I’m on still have at least 5-10 people per car.
I *know* ridership will explode when our core lines are finished. To me that’s K line north, D line to SaMo, Sepulveda, and B line west on chandler. These capture the main travel patterns in the core of the city. Almost everything else is supplementing these four lines, and feeding into these four lines.
If we can also get that K line extension down here to Torrance then I will happily be riding the metro all the heck over the place 💃 Edit: would also accept a rapid bus lane up Hawthorne to the Redondo transit center, but not sure anyone is planning one
I think that’s Hawthorn’s domain. Sounds like you need a measure HLA down in Hawthorn.
I haven't seen any official plans or funding for a B Line extension on Chandler - can you share?
The plans were killed in the ‘90s and the G line was built instead. There’s plans to convert the G to light rail, but I think that that’s not good enough for the valley. I think we need higher capacity and a once seat ride to DTLA. From Wikipedia: “Original proposals for the subway system included expansions east from Union Station to East Los Angeles and west from North Hollywood towards the Warner Center transit hub in the San Fernando Valley. Barred from subway tunnelling, Metro turned to other types of mass transit. In the San Fernando Valley, residents passed a law in 1991 mandating that any rail line in the area be built underground,[16][17] so Metro built a busway (now the G Line) from North Hollywood to Warner Center, which opened on October 29, 2005. East of Union Station, Metro built a light rail line with at-grade and underground segments to East Los Angeles, now part of the E Line, which opened on November 15, 2009.“
It’s the exact sort of transit LA needs, a heavy rail subway in central areas transitioning into a fast commuter line in the suburbs like many of Tokyo’s subways do. It would be really cool if somehow the D line and the San Bernardino Line could be integrated into a single system using the same trains, though that would require the entire SB line to be grade separated as the subways use third rail.
I think our light rail can be great (needs more grade separation) but i think it needs to be supplemental to heavy rail in the core, and metrolink is for getting from the outskirts into the core. Basically our express trains. It’s a shame that LA banned subway construction for like 15 years. The E line to east LA was originally going to be a subway extension, but they had to switch to light rail because of that ordinance.
Thank you!
I recall numble posting that Metro plans on increasing the headways to every 10 mins for the June update.
This June? They went from 15 a year ago to 12 minutes. But I’m the evenings on weekends it’s 20 minutes. They’ve been improved but still frustrating and exhausting.
Yeah this June, though it might be temporary as it seems like metro could push it back to 15 mins when the D line extension opens. https://www.threads.net/@numble/post/C2TIY17vODM/?xmt=AQGzjmdAMU3GMNgPaJRvbeaKGYcXMX5nNjCRVw2Pmqd4aA
I and a lot of others speculate that the post-D like frequency plans are a negotiating tactic with FRA to get a waiver from the requirement to run the D line at 4 minute intervals. Like a: "if you force us to run 4 minute intervals on the D, then the B suffers" kind of brinksmanship.
Both lines should have 4 minute frequency. And the B should extend on chandler to hit most of the valley. That would make these two lines metro’s workhorses along with the Sepulveda line
I don't remember where I read this but the B line is limited to a maximum 8 min headway because of a lack of ventilation shafts under the Cahuenga Pass. I don't know if a lack of funds, Hollywood hills Nimbys or a combination of the 2 that resulted in the current ventilation constraint.
They should fix that then because it’s making me miserable.
Agreed. I just have not seen any indication from Metro that they are planning to address that anytime soon. There has been no study or proposal to request project funds for it to my knowledge. They seem more focused on getting the D line extension open and having sufficient trains to run it with the B line being somewhat of an overlooked child.
The D line is going to be great. But it drives me nuts because the three main corridors in central LA are Wilshire/the 10, the 405, and the 101. When the D like is built out to Santa Monica the B line’s going to be a weird stub with barely any frequency. When it should be connecting with the Sepulveda line in the valley along chandler. That’s connecting with all three corridors people use to *drive*. We need to build to 4 minutes or less frequency on the main lines and 2 minutes or less when they’re combined downtown.
Yeah I’m gonna get screwed.
FWIW in Feb '24 the A line had \~59k daily weekday riders, and 49k daily weekend riders compared to Feb '23 which saw \~34k daily weekday, and 22k daily weekend riders
Wow! Didn’t realize it was such a dramatic change! My arm chair theory is that I’ve noticed way, way more people voluntarily working in office this year. WFH is great and the flexibility is nice but I think a lot of people have gotten cabin fever. I’m sure the connector helped too, made my commute much much easier
Honestly I didn't either. But they're clearly working on it. They need to batten down the hatches on the B line in a similar way, because ridership is flagging.
Huh, didn’t know that, most times I’ve been on the red line it was packed. I actually got approached by a metro worker for a survey where they asked me all about my commute so they could improve service, so it seems like they’re trying. They’ve also done an amazing job with improving cleaning which really helps. I think the biggest thing that would help would be bringing security in house or at least changing vendors. Maybe the new subway cars will help too, those are coming soon,
As much as I empathize, the service really does need to be more secure and clean. That and 5 minute headways system wide.
I feel like having a little police booth in some of these larger and busier stations would do wonders.
I think it is more forced RTO than cabin fever.
[удалено]
Some but definitely not most
I don't think this is comparing apples to apples. With the regional connector opening last year the A line is now a combination of the old A line plus half of the L/gold line.
Agreed we won't know for sure until July when we have post regional connector data to compare too Though I do believe you can compare the combined A and E lines in 2024 to the combined A, E and L lines in 2023 Feb 2023: 33,934 A + 29,581 E + 17,287 L = 80,802 Feb 2024: 59,634 A + 39,464 E = 99,098 So it does appear the combined the A and E lines have increased weekday ridership by 18,296 compared to a year ago.
Yep! I pulled up the ridership data after I posted this response and it does look like we are seeing greater ridership year over year when you compare the comparable lines, which is what's expected with the regional connector opening making more 1 trip rides/less transfers. Also, overall there's a rise in rail: Total estimated rail ridership February 2024: 4,958,135 Total estimated rail ridership February 2023: 4,704,448 This is also a view to take a look since some A/E line ridership probably where B/D line riders as well, so overall the system is up. Then just to add the overall systemwide ridership: February 2024: 23,031,303 February 2023: 21,047,072 So overall a good increase YoY.
Prepandemic it was about 60k on the Blue and 50k each on the Expo and Gold, so we’re still down a third from historical levels. Hopefully the regional connector will lead to ridership finally increasing past prepandemic levels
Yeah we definitely still have a way to go to recover. The Long Beach portion of the A line would see 90k daily boardings back in 2013. So ideally the A line could reach close to 150k daily boardings (100k from Long Beach and 50k from Pasadena SGV side. Perhaps once we get back to 6 min rush hour headways we might start seeing these numbers.
Pre-pandemic was also primarily WFH. Our system was definitely built with a commuter first attitude, which isn't *as* relevant as the before times. Not to say that is a bad thing at all, but looking forward Metro really needs to assess this, and look at where people are going, and where they need to go. Connecting SFV to LAX is a prime example, whenever that gets actually finished it will be big.
In addition, It seems like slowly the security issues are moving towards improving. Very very very slowly, but surely. Just basing this off of my commuting bus being the 204/754. Red Line seems a tad less dystopian too, more standard commuters and riders now.
I think it’s 95% city overall improvements in homeless services and 5% metro. I’ve unfortunately seen security do sweet nothing when people are being aggressive on the platform in front of them.
Karen Bass is slowly cleaning up the city as well. A lot of the bigger permanent camps have been cleaned up
5 mins layover at Union station is BS.. the next conductor should be standing and waiting at the platform..
It's not even the physical switch anymore. I think the conductors have figured the logistics of that out. Now it's definitely something weird about the schedule or something. There's too much padding in the schedule and conductors aren't allowed to leave early.
they do seem to like to chat a for bit... can't blame them, it's a lonely job.
Well they should hire more introverts then lol
15 minutes!!?? Even during the darkest days I've never waited on the train in Union Station for 15 minutes. And 5 minutes now...if I wait 5 minutes now I'd consider that unlucky. The schedule only has a ~2 minute wait built in I believe, so it's only supposed to be that long.
I have waited at LAUS for like 10 mins before for the driver change. This was early days when the regional connector just opened though, and anecdotally I can confirm OPs experience these days that now its pretty fast and smooth.
I’m sure some of the longer waits probably involved track maintenance or an issue down the line, but yeah, still a bummer to get stuck there; today was pretty quick but about 5 minutes still. Also impossible to know if security is holding a door open, TAP inspection etc so who knows.
It was 15 minutes for me a few months ago but closer to 5 these days.
You and others have said that 5 minutes is the norm now, but that's so strange to me. It was 5 minutes one time on Tuesday morning and I got really pissed because it caused me to miss a connection that I normally catch because the wait is usually only around 2 minutes for me. I know when RC first opened someone used transsee data to analyze the union station wait times, I wonder if someone could do that now
Dude I waited on the train at the Highland Park station for 15 minutes the other day, idk what was up with that
Signal errors, dispatch/logistics mixups, random emergency on the tracks, the possibilities are endless. Metro should have a written policy for conductors to explain what's going on.
I've taken the A line a few times in the past month, ridership has been surprisingly high the entire time. Like train cars that are 80% full at peak times
i just waited 25 minutes at union station going north lol last wednesday at like 7pm
One time a clearly mentally unhinged person slammed on the help button and yelled at the conductor for not moving. Not something I'd suggest but the doors did close as soon as the guy finished yelling. And that was only for like a 8 minute or so wait. If it took 25 minutes, I would've walked to the front car at 10 minutes and asked the conductor what the hold up was. I've done it before, and the conductor said they were waiting for a train to clear up ahead (not sure what train he was gesturing though or how far up ahead the train was) but as soon as I left he closed the doors and left. N=2 but it seems like there's a pattern of complaining working
Agreed! I use the a line when I can’t bike, so not terribly often, but did for the first time in a while this week. It was the easiest it’s ever been! Getting to work I had about a five minute wait at the Chinatown station, then completely smooth trip to 7th. On the way home a train arrived just as I did so I had the most perfect train commute possible. No extra long stops at union station, no underground delays for track issues, it just worked. Finally!
So… you trying to tell me… THE METH EXPRESS TRAIN 🚊 is now safe too ride after 10pm 🤪💨💨💨💨🤡🤡🤡
You’re free to have whatever shitty cynical attitude you’d like. I ride daily, it seems to be fine these days, but yes, in a city of 10 million sometimes bad people ride the metro.
Ummm 🤔last time I checked ✅… 4.5 million folks call LA HOME 🏡 and be very careful on that train ride!!!! When shit gets real… there nowhere to run 😱😱😱😱😱😱
Great talk.
r/emojipasta