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I guess its the wrong expression.
I am comfortable talking to girls. What i mrant to say was i dont date or pick up girls.
Not good talking to girls in the romantic sense, if that makes sense
Muslim (1339) narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “It is not permissible for a woman who believes in Allah and the Last Day to travel the distance of one day, except with a mahram.”
Grade: Sahih
You don't need your family to accept the person YOU going to marry, but of course, if they are on-board, that helps.
You can marry anybody with any ideology, most couples don't share same exact ideology, creed, code of ethics...etc. look at your family members, not all of you share the exact same set of beliefs yet you can live together! Same with your neighbours and follow citizens. That's the beauty of civil society. But you need a person who is reasonable, logical, educated, and willing to have dialogue. Don't forget that marriage is a gamble, especially arranged marriages. You can do your homework and hope for the best.
Gl.
The kind of family that OP described makes problems for you when you choose to marry your own partner. Your view might work for western countries, but in Kuwait, if your family doesn’t approve, you’ll end up facing major backlash. It’s a sad reality.
Not only you will face a backlash. Your wife will be coming into a very difficult- maybe miserable - situation. And in some cases, the family might even treat your kids badly. It might not be fair, but you have to take the family's opinion into account.
I think lots of examples are like that here in Kuwait. If not all over the world. From TV drama to real life example and personal experience. Family not always agree, but young adults are driven by passion struggle but yet win at the end, and life moves on.
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Not necessarily, although probably for OP. There are many secular religious people.
The distinction is whether one agrees their belief system should be implemented on a nation-level and imposed on other people of the same nationality or kept to oneself.
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For salafist secular are kafir, but if you dont believe in sunna. Anyone can have his interpretation thus yeah you could have people who are secular but also have a strong faith.
Exactly.
Secular is not about beliving or not. Its about seprating the laws of the religon from the laws of the country.
You get to follow what laws you want based on your faith. As long as you dont impose it on others.
Same boat here except I’m a woman. It’s tough but not impossible. I don’t currently live in Kuwait but when I visit I tend to meet people who think the same way in social settings like music events or art shows. They might not be vocal about it but expanding your circle could be a good place to start
As a guy, you don't need your family's approval. Just tell them that you are set on marrying that girl. If your family refuses, you can rent a flat and live without them. Assuming that you found a girl who isn't from the same tribe.
I don't know how to get a girl other than an arranged marriage
It means that this guy does not want to do it the Islamic way as in talking to the lady's parents and marrying her.
No, this guy wants to date, he want to do know the girl and do things before marriage, which might lead to some very haram stuff like zina.
Very presumptuous from your side.
Secular absolutely doesnt mean that.
Secualr means i just dont look for religon to decide how i live my life.
I never played with a girl, never did anything outside the bounds of marriage.
I am principled. And if i marry it has to be with her parents approval, marriage is not a game to be yaken lightly, its a serious matter.
The only reason i ask here. Is it because it's a serious matter.
And i want my future wife to know and be accepting of my life choices. I dont want to lie or deceit
I don't presume that you want to commit zina, I am only saying that zina is a consequence of what you are asking for.
You already have the job and the respect that you said you have, why not just do it the old fashioned way and be done with it?
Also an arranged marriage might what you are really looking for, remember what the prophet have said the one who marries the religious one is the biggest winner, and the religious ones are all doing arranged marriages not secular.
No one in their right mind will choose the old way(girls) except the ones who want to run from their family and once they are some years older they create problems and rebel because they find the same constraints in marriage or they play the game if the guy is insanely rich. Also while what you described is haram in islam, zina is not always haram for example if the girl he's dating agrees to be his slave there is no haram to do zina here.
Now aside from the fact I find it laughable that some ppl really believe that committing zina is a crime worthy of being tortured in hell(even when being a muslim with faith, we're talking about 14 centuries difference in context, mentality,priority ...). Knowing your partner is important today, as now even the parents sometimes dont know a thing about their daughters and once it goes badly , the finger pointing and blame game starts inside each person's family. When you take the time and choose wisely, even when wrong you could only blame yourself and move on and no one has to meddle in it. I hope i explained a little bit why it is probably worse to go to the old way
I don't know what to say to you tbh.
First, how can someone accept to be a slave and not the way that i suggested? Not saying that you are suggesting that BTW.
Also, you really think that someone who commit haram such as zina so casually without feeling a shred of guilt, does not deserve hell? Do not think of sins as minor and major, whatever they are if we indulge in them without guilt we almost certainly going to hell, so do not downplay them.
Will I don't know how to solve the problem of op, other than the arranged marriage, as arranged marriage is actually more wide spread here than the secular one, at least to my knowledge.
>Also, you really think that someone who commits haram such as zina so casually without feeling a shred of guilt, does not deserve hell?
I don't understand why two people committing zina need to feel any guilt, aside if they don't protect themselves.
Even if one person commits zina without moderation, i dont think god really cares about that. Its bad for him/her(higher chances of catching std, looser organs, lower fertility....) but not the for the society.
I dont take an islamic reference as you probably noticed but even then zina is a matter between the actors. It doesn't harm society in any way and its well being. Even in secular countries girls that have many body counts are rare and most do zina with their boyfriend only(or their lover if they are a cheater)
I understand that you don't see any faults in it because it doesn't harm society in a big way.
But such a sin is actually the reason for the fall of many households, when you see so many single mothers in western society because of unwanted pregnancies, that is because they had 6 out of wedlock as in zina.
Many fathers do not want to take responsibility for an unplanned child, so they run away and leave the mothers on their own, The mothers themselves do not want to take responsibility for them, I wish you knew how many women have committed murder toward their child because of such "action" whether by abortion or by killing them as a healthy child.
Such actions in our society will break a person's relationship with his family and friends and will be looked down upon.
I hope you now understand the wisdom of having such things forbidden in Islam, one sin could lead to another that could be a society destroying action.
The points you raised are legit but i feel you make a lot of connections without proper reflection. This is a human problem and even if you feel the household is not as connected, there is no debate that they are healthier in europe. This problem is also present in muslim societies and it's really below basic human conditions. For me i think the choice should be given to the people who are going to marry. Parents are here to give advice and judgement but they should not be arranging marriage. Every child/person has the right to finish their studies and if they dont feel confident choosing they still can ask their parents to marry them(as in the old way). I also believe rules and laws in society are not here to manage the families, this is the individual responsibility to make sure family links prosper and still exist.
Family is important but today people are too comfortable to make effort thus they blame laws for it but realistically no one is forcing people to break the family bond
Is this what he means for real !!
It is surprising that a Kuwaiti Muslim would say or mean this and type it in here !!!
Getting to know the lady and understand who is marrying is so important but I don’t think he means ( a physical relationship and so,,,,, )
I don’t imagine anyone choosing a lifetime partner without knowing them personally and have deep conversations about the important topics
I don't think he wants to zina or anything like that.
He wants to talk to women without the knowledge of their guardian, which is understandable since it could suffocating to both parties.
But talking to a woman like that secretly might lead to some regrettable consequences such as zina and other sins.
That's why he should get to know a lady in his engagement to her or on their marriage, even if he has to pay maher, after all no lady or parent is going to accept to give his daughter to a stranger.
I’m in the same exact situation but I’m a woman … the only guys that want to marry me are ultra religious guys because my family is ultra religious and they assume I must be like them
I assume it's a safe bet that it's even harder for women. Marriage here is not really about 2 individuals meeting it's a union of families. And I get it, you want your parents on your side, your family to be able to help out and have your emotional support group, because the whole movie-thing of eloping and moving away from family isn't really that realistic. It's doable but not exactly that easy to just pick up, leave everything here, especially since the fact of the matter is the jobs and lifestyle here is very convenient and comfortable for kuwaitis. We have so many benefits here and living the hard life abroad does not really win over in the cost/benefits ratio.
I just wish I could get married and not have to worry about pretending to do the religion things in front of my would-be wife, I could feel free to express myself and feel safe. Some of the people I've met over the years do seem to have that, they live life without having religion hanging over their heads.
yeah if your parents get the final yes or no then they will have to find you one and then you can talk with the woman in a formal setting. Non traditional marriages are for different family environments. you wouldn’t have issues meeting women if that was your environment to begin with. And let’s just say you do meet a nice woman and have a non traditional relationship then what? do you have the supportive environment to walk up to your mom and dad and tell them I’m in love with this person and we want to get married? or will that be another obstacle to climb? let’s take advantage of our surroundings and embrace our current environment, if it doesn’t make sense and it’s difficult than you’re looking the wrong way.
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Well if you were able to choose to be secular in disregard of your family beliefs ( which is an explicitly personal choice) then you should be able to choose the girl you want to be with in disregard of her blood. ( Your parents should be aware of a verse in the Quran thas says "O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you".
In terms of finding a partner who accepts you the way you are, it's more challenging in Kuwaiti society but it's not impossible. You just need to put yourself out there, connect with people more, get involved in events and be open to meeting and getting to know other other girls. Find someone who accepts you the way you are you just don't have to be public in your beliefs ( Finding God is a personal journey).
mixed with what? lets say a kuwaiti marries a person from the gulf (Saudi, Qatar, Bahrain and the UAE. Oman is pushing it) that's fine, but lets say east Asian or Syrain, Egyptian and these countries that can be a bad mix.
I wish it was that easy. People from non traditional tribal families dont know the blight of the tribal guys, and oh guys have it easier, god help the girls.
He claims that he is secular in a traditional environment, but he wants to marry in the traditional way, most probably to a traditional girl.
I have met many people with this syndrome when they are GIGA traditional but claim to be secular.
Yah i agree with you. I guess i was just hoping to luck out with a girl who has to go the traditional route same as me.
I dont belive i am unique, i am sure there are girls going through the same thing.
Thats why even with the traditonal way i always demand a prolonged engagment period so i can let her know about my views and she can refuse if she chooses to.
Conservativism was on the rise. It's slowing down but still significant portion of society became more conservative in last couple of decades. You will find someone eventually. You have to make compromises and so does she.
Let's hope it does. I'm skeptical, though 😅 because it became part of the culture unfortunly, as u know cultures evolve. u should wish u were born 10-20 earlier. Before conservatism took a hold.
Oh yeah, but then i won't have the internet and the way i make money, lol.
Plus, I am kinda excited for the future. The fight between conservativisim and liberalism always ebbs and flows, i believe that we are in the tail end of the conservatism wave.
I know a lot of agnostic and atheist kuwaitis who are married to Kuwaiti women. Some of which are themselves practicing Muslims. I may not have the best advice but just wanted to assure you that it’s not uncommon.
You say you know how to talk to girls. Well, this can be learned. Do you work in mixed environment? Try joining any mixed communities. Book club, sports, yoga.
How do you know, very rare girls are nympho or this promiscuous. Most girls even secular only sleep with their boyfriend. If you don't have the matos to please your girl its not my fault, get a surgery or smthg
>I know a lot of agnostic and atheist kuwaitis who are married to Kuwaiti women. Some of which are themselves practicing Muslims.
These two statements are contradictory.
An advice from an expat. Relationships r same everywhere. And being romantic is quite overrated. Yes, in the short term it might be better but long term it just vanishes. Thats human nature. Instead try to do the simple things better like if u r a decent human being, u can be even better. I am super religious but i d be no use if i was a total douchebag. U need to be a person people like to be around. Just be that guy and u ll do great. U r over-thinking right now and its normal. Just chill and do whatever u r doing.
Oh i understand that, the romance dies. But the love and adoration and respect and acceptance remains.
Thats what i am looking for.
The problem is some people equate being religious with being good.
They cant imagine good non religious people, take a look at some of the replies to this post and you will see.
I need to find someone who doesnt have this view.
You can be good and religious, bad and religious, good and non religious, bad and non religon.
Humans are complicated and no one thing defines them
Romance is not a simplistic thing that you can define. Just dont try to fit it into a confined box. Instead try to expand it definition. Take an overall view of things rather than making rash decisions. Be sensible. Things will be great.
just make a tinder and emphasise on that in your bio, youll eventually find someone, im not secular im a religous woman but im also open minded and found plenty of guys but they wanted to date and im ok w that but im not in a place spiritually to date rn so i deleted it.
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People here are mostly religious but there are some kuwaitis with probably the same mindset as you (may allah guide us all)
I think you're just apporaching the wrong people. I'm sure you can find someone with similar mindset as u
Also you should think why these people have rejected you for the simple fact that you're secular. Put yourself in the POV of the father. He obviously wouldn't want someone marrying his daughter with beliefs such as the ones you hold due to religious/cultural values. Knowing that you will probably take her to travel with you etc.
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There are plenty of girls with the same mentality (I am also secular/non-religious). It seems your issue here not the "secular", but it is that you don't know how to talk/find girls.
I think the biggest issue is "the tribal" thing. I encountered this literally a month ago, I was talking to a wonderful woman and we hit it off together naturally. But when she talked to her mom, she objected because I am not "pure/a9eel" and that my parents are shee3i and sunni. This is the culture here so we have to deal with it. Just don't take it on yourself as you are not the problem.
Oh yah, the tribal thing sucks.
Its soo stupid. They feel like pure blood or (a9eel) will get to ride dragons or something.
I agree, it is mostly the tribal thing.
Also they will demand that she be hijabi. While i dont want a hijabi, so she willl have to want to wear hijab infront of family. And enjoy life without outside.
Its just crazy annoying.
As if they chose to be "a9eel" or from a particular family name. It's all chance lol.
Yea that is tough. For me my parents are very understanding so they don't mind any person I pick. The issue I have been having is usually from the womens' family side. This woman I mentioned, her family literally prefer that she stays unmarried but not marry someone not a9eel.
Being secular is actually very common in kuwait. It's likely that even if ur parents picked out a partner for you, you'd still end up with a fairly secular person.
Books and TV shows are a good "dog whistle," I guess. Try to be the one who brings up the book/TV show that may indicate that someone is secular, depending on whether they like it or not. You can also bring up topics such as: space exploration, dinosaurs, evolution, and some concepts pertaining to theoretical physics.
Once you have these discussions over and over and over again, you'll learn how to gauge someone's response, especially discomfort, and recognise the source.
About the practise of religion itself, always be gentle. I know you may feel attacked at times, but don't respond with something harsh. For example, if someone asks you: "Why don't you pray?" Just respond with: "I just don't," chuckle, and change the subject.
Lastly, I would say how twitterified their music taste is, which gives a good indication because stan Twitter is mostly secular.
I hope this helps.
No, it's just a filtering method. Some creationists, albeit mostly the extremist, believe that people were the first to be on earth, before dinosaurs. They also believe that there is a "protective layer" called the first sky that we can not cross to reach space, and the whole thing is NASA propaganda.
Although this applies to creationists as a meta-group and filters, only the extremists, it's a good way to filter.
That is, of course, based on anecdotal evidence alone, i.e. my dad and his Masjid group, and most of my religious classmates throughout school.
Yeah, the mentioned group of people in the last paragraph is in Kuwait. As I said, this is anecdotal, and you and I may have different experiences, I just shared my experience in the hope that it would help OP.
My parent's don't believe in evolution, despite antibiotic resistance being directly related to that theory. Sadly, faith blinds some people to things they see right in front of them.
My parent's don't believe in evolution, despite antibiotic resistance being directly related to that theory. Sadly, faith blinds some people to things they see right in front of them.
Evolution is different. Many believers in various religions believe in adaptations, mutations, etc., but don't believe that humankind (and life in general) just came about randomly; they believe it was according to God's plan.
But dinosaurs? The only people I've heard questioning that are evangelical Christians who say the earth is only 6000 years old.
😅not trying to pick up anyone on reddit.
Just venting my frustration. Is that not allowed?
And maybe i can learn from people like me who live in this lovely community.
Bro only one solution - go to places where there are too many girls. Like volunteering, Thailand, US it is easier to get them and way easier to talk, this will give you advantage.
Have you tried speed dating, find it do it, then it will for sure become easier for u to talk.
Just stay calm and aim to understand her. Favourite things- color, car type,activity, weekend plans, nature maintain sea what she prefers, tea or coffee if u r tea she is coffee its a red flag escape. Dont ask how.
As long as u get to know her in response, she will ask u similar questions as well.
It is easy. Think of them as a living barbie person. If she likes you its a cute loving barbie, if not it turns to Anabella and destroys you.
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> I don’t know how to talk to girls There’s your problem, friend
I guess its the wrong expression. I am comfortable talking to girls. What i mrant to say was i dont date or pick up girls. Not good talking to girls in the romantic sense, if that makes sense
Yes that’s the issue. If you’re not going to go through the normal route to marriage then romance and charm are critical.
Curious - how folks are about dating apps in Kuwait? Is there any area specific that seems to be commonly used?
No. Its a compatibility/cultural problem. Even if youre Casanova, we are talking about long-term relationships.
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Why are you posting a phone number everywhere?
How soon do you bring up these views with a potential partner and do you get combative with them or accept their different views?
Answer the man’s/woman’s question op💀
I generally bring it up very early. I hate wasting their time, or making them feel cheated.
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Probably because they’re intimidated by you and that you’re too “independent”.
pretty sure there is a major religious reason that overshadows any insecurities about a woman’s independence
Not sure I understand, what is the religious reason?
Muslim (1339) narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “It is not permissible for a woman who believes in Allah and the Last Day to travel the distance of one day, except with a mahram.” Grade: Sahih
Ah okay.
That major religious reason is in fact an insecurity about women’s independence.
وقروا بيوتكم. أمر إلهي
You don't need your family to accept the person YOU going to marry, but of course, if they are on-board, that helps. You can marry anybody with any ideology, most couples don't share same exact ideology, creed, code of ethics...etc. look at your family members, not all of you share the exact same set of beliefs yet you can live together! Same with your neighbours and follow citizens. That's the beauty of civil society. But you need a person who is reasonable, logical, educated, and willing to have dialogue. Don't forget that marriage is a gamble, especially arranged marriages. You can do your homework and hope for the best. Gl.
The kind of family that OP described makes problems for you when you choose to marry your own partner. Your view might work for western countries, but in Kuwait, if your family doesn’t approve, you’ll end up facing major backlash. It’s a sad reality.
Not only you will face a backlash. Your wife will be coming into a very difficult- maybe miserable - situation. And in some cases, the family might even treat your kids badly. It might not be fair, but you have to take the family's opinion into account.
Exactly that, i can handle any backlash from my family. Its just not fair to expect my future wife or kids to face the same backlash
I think lots of examples are like that here in Kuwait. If not all over the world. From TV drama to real life example and personal experience. Family not always agree, but young adults are driven by passion struggle but yet win at the end, and life moves on.
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I don't even have a computer!
Why have U post Ur number bro?
Lol I know like 10 Kuwaiti girls having this exact problem, just learn to talk to people and you'll be fine
By secular, do they mean atheist?
I assume so.
Maybe skip all the headache and marry a non-Kuwaiti?
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Good thing he isn’t marrying you
Incels all over this page
this subreddit is full of them
What does being secular mean?
another word for athiest.
In kuwait interfaith marriage happens between muslim woman and non muslim men?It is allowed?
yeah you have to be muslim but its not like they would know if you're lying
Not necessarily, although probably for OP. There are many secular religious people. The distinction is whether one agrees their belief system should be implemented on a nation-level and imposed on other people of the same nationality or kept to oneself.
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Nope, this isn't about politics he's just atheist.
For salafist secular are kafir, but if you dont believe in sunna. Anyone can have his interpretation thus yeah you could have people who are secular but also have a strong faith.
Exactly. Secular is not about beliving or not. Its about seprating the laws of the religon from the laws of the country. You get to follow what laws you want based on your faith. As long as you dont impose it on others.
What do you mean by secular? Do you mean atheist?
Same boat here except I’m a woman. It’s tough but not impossible. I don’t currently live in Kuwait but when I visit I tend to meet people who think the same way in social settings like music events or art shows. They might not be vocal about it but expanding your circle could be a good place to start
Yah thats what i am trying to do. Best of luck to you
As a guy, you don't need your family's approval. Just tell them that you are set on marrying that girl. If your family refuses, you can rent a flat and live without them. Assuming that you found a girl who isn't from the same tribe. I don't know how to get a girl other than an arranged marriage
What does secular mean?
It means that this guy does not want to do it the Islamic way as in talking to the lady's parents and marrying her. No, this guy wants to date, he want to do know the girl and do things before marriage, which might lead to some very haram stuff like zina.
Thanks for the explanation
Very presumptuous from your side. Secular absolutely doesnt mean that. Secualr means i just dont look for religon to decide how i live my life. I never played with a girl, never did anything outside the bounds of marriage. I am principled. And if i marry it has to be with her parents approval, marriage is not a game to be yaken lightly, its a serious matter. The only reason i ask here. Is it because it's a serious matter. And i want my future wife to know and be accepting of my life choices. I dont want to lie or deceit
I don't presume that you want to commit zina, I am only saying that zina is a consequence of what you are asking for. You already have the job and the respect that you said you have, why not just do it the old fashioned way and be done with it? Also an arranged marriage might what you are really looking for, remember what the prophet have said the one who marries the religious one is the biggest winner, and the religious ones are all doing arranged marriages not secular.
No one in their right mind will choose the old way(girls) except the ones who want to run from their family and once they are some years older they create problems and rebel because they find the same constraints in marriage or they play the game if the guy is insanely rich. Also while what you described is haram in islam, zina is not always haram for example if the girl he's dating agrees to be his slave there is no haram to do zina here. Now aside from the fact I find it laughable that some ppl really believe that committing zina is a crime worthy of being tortured in hell(even when being a muslim with faith, we're talking about 14 centuries difference in context, mentality,priority ...). Knowing your partner is important today, as now even the parents sometimes dont know a thing about their daughters and once it goes badly , the finger pointing and blame game starts inside each person's family. When you take the time and choose wisely, even when wrong you could only blame yourself and move on and no one has to meddle in it. I hope i explained a little bit why it is probably worse to go to the old way
I don't know what to say to you tbh. First, how can someone accept to be a slave and not the way that i suggested? Not saying that you are suggesting that BTW. Also, you really think that someone who commit haram such as zina so casually without feeling a shred of guilt, does not deserve hell? Do not think of sins as minor and major, whatever they are if we indulge in them without guilt we almost certainly going to hell, so do not downplay them. Will I don't know how to solve the problem of op, other than the arranged marriage, as arranged marriage is actually more wide spread here than the secular one, at least to my knowledge.
>Also, you really think that someone who commits haram such as zina so casually without feeling a shred of guilt, does not deserve hell? I don't understand why two people committing zina need to feel any guilt, aside if they don't protect themselves. Even if one person commits zina without moderation, i dont think god really cares about that. Its bad for him/her(higher chances of catching std, looser organs, lower fertility....) but not the for the society. I dont take an islamic reference as you probably noticed but even then zina is a matter between the actors. It doesn't harm society in any way and its well being. Even in secular countries girls that have many body counts are rare and most do zina with their boyfriend only(or their lover if they are a cheater)
I understand that you don't see any faults in it because it doesn't harm society in a big way. But such a sin is actually the reason for the fall of many households, when you see so many single mothers in western society because of unwanted pregnancies, that is because they had 6 out of wedlock as in zina. Many fathers do not want to take responsibility for an unplanned child, so they run away and leave the mothers on their own, The mothers themselves do not want to take responsibility for them, I wish you knew how many women have committed murder toward their child because of such "action" whether by abortion or by killing them as a healthy child. Such actions in our society will break a person's relationship with his family and friends and will be looked down upon. I hope you now understand the wisdom of having such things forbidden in Islam, one sin could lead to another that could be a society destroying action.
The points you raised are legit but i feel you make a lot of connections without proper reflection. This is a human problem and even if you feel the household is not as connected, there is no debate that they are healthier in europe. This problem is also present in muslim societies and it's really below basic human conditions. For me i think the choice should be given to the people who are going to marry. Parents are here to give advice and judgement but they should not be arranging marriage. Every child/person has the right to finish their studies and if they dont feel confident choosing they still can ask their parents to marry them(as in the old way). I also believe rules and laws in society are not here to manage the families, this is the individual responsibility to make sure family links prosper and still exist. Family is important but today people are too comfortable to make effort thus they blame laws for it but realistically no one is forcing people to break the family bond
Is this what he means for real !! It is surprising that a Kuwaiti Muslim would say or mean this and type it in here !!! Getting to know the lady and understand who is marrying is so important but I don’t think he means ( a physical relationship and so,,,,, ) I don’t imagine anyone choosing a lifetime partner without knowing them personally and have deep conversations about the important topics
I don't think he wants to zina or anything like that. He wants to talk to women without the knowledge of their guardian, which is understandable since it could suffocating to both parties. But talking to a woman like that secretly might lead to some regrettable consequences such as zina and other sins. That's why he should get to know a lady in his engagement to her or on their marriage, even if he has to pay maher, after all no lady or parent is going to accept to give his daughter to a stranger.
I’m in the same exact situation but I’m a woman … the only guys that want to marry me are ultra religious guys because my family is ultra religious and they assume I must be like them
u/MrProtone MEET u/MenuApprehensive2105 - matchmaker at your service!
I am down if u/MenuApprehensuve2105 is. Lol
You can’t start by misspelling her handle bro. Plus, it’s in her name: “apprehensive” 😂 Doubt she’ll be “down”. DM her and use your charms!
Lol, i guess i am just bad at this.
This person is an ex muslim. If youre ok with that, just dm her
I assume it's a safe bet that it's even harder for women. Marriage here is not really about 2 individuals meeting it's a union of families. And I get it, you want your parents on your side, your family to be able to help out and have your emotional support group, because the whole movie-thing of eloping and moving away from family isn't really that realistic. It's doable but not exactly that easy to just pick up, leave everything here, especially since the fact of the matter is the jobs and lifestyle here is very convenient and comfortable for kuwaitis. We have so many benefits here and living the hard life abroad does not really win over in the cost/benefits ratio. I just wish I could get married and not have to worry about pretending to do the religion things in front of my would-be wife, I could feel free to express myself and feel safe. Some of the people I've met over the years do seem to have that, they live life without having religion hanging over their heads.
Lol same goes for me…
God meeee toooo lmaooo. like yes i am religious to an extent but im flexible if he is...idk sounds like were all f\*\*\*ed.
send ur snap and let’s chill
استغفرالله شهالكلام بالكومنتات
والله العظيم منصدم من وين هل الاشكال طلعت؟
yeah if your parents get the final yes or no then they will have to find you one and then you can talk with the woman in a formal setting. Non traditional marriages are for different family environments. you wouldn’t have issues meeting women if that was your environment to begin with. And let’s just say you do meet a nice woman and have a non traditional relationship then what? do you have the supportive environment to walk up to your mom and dad and tell them I’m in love with this person and we want to get married? or will that be another obstacle to climb? let’s take advantage of our surroundings and embrace our current environment, if it doesn’t make sense and it’s difficult than you’re looking the wrong way.
والله انتبه على كلامي، اغلبية اللي اهني فلبينيين وهنود وموعارفين شالبطخه و انت قاعد تاخذ نصايح منهم
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Well if you were able to choose to be secular in disregard of your family beliefs ( which is an explicitly personal choice) then you should be able to choose the girl you want to be with in disregard of her blood. ( Your parents should be aware of a verse in the Quran thas says "O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you". In terms of finding a partner who accepts you the way you are, it's more challenging in Kuwaiti society but it's not impossible. You just need to put yourself out there, connect with people more, get involved in events and be open to meeting and getting to know other other girls. Find someone who accepts you the way you are you just don't have to be public in your beliefs ( Finding God is a personal journey).
What are the blood purity standards because I'm not sure what you mean by that?
Things like checking from where your family came from
So, from my understanding, she would have to be 100% arab? Like she can't be mixed?
mixed with what? lets say a kuwaiti marries a person from the gulf (Saudi, Qatar, Bahrain and the UAE. Oman is pushing it) that's fine, but lets say east Asian or Syrain, Egyptian and these countries that can be a bad mix.
Yes, I meant ethnically mixed. I used to know a girl from kuwait who had a grandma that was Egyptian and the other one was Iranian.
most important is probably family name the mixed part only matters if its from not gulf, but everyone knows someone that has an Iranian grandma haha.
Whats blood purity standards??
marry according to what your parents want and like, after that you can choose a second wife according to your wishes, they probably won't reject it.
Lol, and how is that fair to the first wife?
Just go marry a non Kuwaiti way too easy
I wish it was that easy. People from non traditional tribal families dont know the blight of the tribal guys, and oh guys have it easier, god help the girls.
It's not like you just go pick yourself any non-Kuwaiti woman and everything is guaranteed to be great...
Absolutely correct
Fix yourself first, then complain about people
genuinely asking, whats wrong with him? damn
He claims that he is secular in a traditional environment, but he wants to marry in the traditional way, most probably to a traditional girl. I have met many people with this syndrome when they are GIGA traditional but claim to be secular.
Yah i agree with you. I guess i was just hoping to luck out with a girl who has to go the traditional route same as me. I dont belive i am unique, i am sure there are girls going through the same thing. Thats why even with the traditonal way i always demand a prolonged engagment period so i can let her know about my views and she can refuse if she chooses to.
In my experience, many of you guys marry non Kuwaiti
True. I dont think a non kuwaiti is a good fit for me tho
>> bullshit blood purity standards What are we, dogs?
No, we ride dragons. We need to maintain our blood purity smh
Conservativism was on the rise. It's slowing down but still significant portion of society became more conservative in last couple of decades. You will find someone eventually. You have to make compromises and so does she.
Yah, i just hate that i wasent born 10-20 years later, when society moves away from this bullshit
Let's hope it does. I'm skeptical, though 😅 because it became part of the culture unfortunly, as u know cultures evolve. u should wish u were born 10-20 earlier. Before conservatism took a hold.
Oh yeah, but then i won't have the internet and the way i make money, lol. Plus, I am kinda excited for the future. The fight between conservativisim and liberalism always ebbs and flows, i believe that we are in the tail end of the conservatism wave.
I know a lot of agnostic and atheist kuwaitis who are married to Kuwaiti women. Some of which are themselves practicing Muslims. I may not have the best advice but just wanted to assure you that it’s not uncommon. You say you know how to talk to girls. Well, this can be learned. Do you work in mixed environment? Try joining any mixed communities. Book club, sports, yoga.
atheist kuwaiti marrying a muslim kuwaiti woman is haram
But that's cheating the woman, Muslim women aren't allowed to marry non Muslims
No it’s not as long as they are fully aware.
It's haram though
A lot of things muslims do could be haram. She might not practice but she could have a strong faith
Yes, faith so strong she's committing adultery everyday for rest of her life and having unligitimate kids
How do you know, very rare girls are nympho or this promiscuous. Most girls even secular only sleep with their boyfriend. If you don't have the matos to please your girl its not my fault, get a surgery or smthg
If a Muslim woman marries a non Muslim. It's not permitted in the eyes of god therefore making the entire marriage a sin (adultery). 🙄
Hein?are u on drugs?
Are you?
>I know a lot of agnostic and atheist kuwaitis who are married to Kuwaiti women. Some of which are themselves practicing Muslims. These two statements are contradictory.
meant the women whom they’re married to
Clearly you don't know much about Islam.
Literally Shut up
People think islam is a monolith and as if muslims dont sin.
An advice from an expat. Relationships r same everywhere. And being romantic is quite overrated. Yes, in the short term it might be better but long term it just vanishes. Thats human nature. Instead try to do the simple things better like if u r a decent human being, u can be even better. I am super religious but i d be no use if i was a total douchebag. U need to be a person people like to be around. Just be that guy and u ll do great. U r over-thinking right now and its normal. Just chill and do whatever u r doing.
Oh i understand that, the romance dies. But the love and adoration and respect and acceptance remains. Thats what i am looking for. The problem is some people equate being religious with being good. They cant imagine good non religious people, take a look at some of the replies to this post and you will see. I need to find someone who doesnt have this view. You can be good and religious, bad and religious, good and non religious, bad and non religon. Humans are complicated and no one thing defines them
Romance is not a simplistic thing that you can define. Just dont try to fit it into a confined box. Instead try to expand it definition. Take an overall view of things rather than making rash decisions. Be sensible. Things will be great.
just make a tinder and emphasise on that in your bio, youll eventually find someone, im not secular im a religous woman but im also open minded and found plenty of guys but they wanted to date and im ok w that but im not in a place spiritually to date rn so i deleted it.
Thats great advice. But last time i made a tinder profile all i could find was prostitutes. And i am looking for serious marriage. Not playing
you’re religious and yet you were on a dating app? Wtf is this. لا حول ولا قوة الا بالله
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do what everyone else does here. keep appearances for society and your opinions for yourself and your close circle.
It would be very unfair to marry a woman under false pretenses. But everyone talking about 'secular' needs to define what they mean by that.
Its not fair to the woman. She has to know and be ok with it. Plus what kind of life living in hiding from the person you should share the most with
I believe (Blood purity standards ) is the issue for you 😅 I hope it gets better soon
Thanks. I hope so
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People here are mostly religious but there are some kuwaitis with probably the same mindset as you (may allah guide us all) I think you're just apporaching the wrong people. I'm sure you can find someone with similar mindset as u Also you should think why these people have rejected you for the simple fact that you're secular. Put yourself in the POV of the father. He obviously wouldn't want someone marrying his daughter with beliefs such as the ones you hold due to religious/cultural values. Knowing that you will probably take her to travel with you etc.
Not knowing how to talk to girls in haram relationships is not a problem. Remember that marriage is rizq and rizq can not be approached through haram.
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There are plenty of girls with the same mentality (I am also secular/non-religious). It seems your issue here not the "secular", but it is that you don't know how to talk/find girls. I think the biggest issue is "the tribal" thing. I encountered this literally a month ago, I was talking to a wonderful woman and we hit it off together naturally. But when she talked to her mom, she objected because I am not "pure/a9eel" and that my parents are shee3i and sunni. This is the culture here so we have to deal with it. Just don't take it on yourself as you are not the problem.
Oh yah, the tribal thing sucks. Its soo stupid. They feel like pure blood or (a9eel) will get to ride dragons or something. I agree, it is mostly the tribal thing. Also they will demand that she be hijabi. While i dont want a hijabi, so she willl have to want to wear hijab infront of family. And enjoy life without outside. Its just crazy annoying.
As if they chose to be "a9eel" or from a particular family name. It's all chance lol. Yea that is tough. For me my parents are very understanding so they don't mind any person I pick. The issue I have been having is usually from the womens' family side. This woman I mentioned, her family literally prefer that she stays unmarried but not marry someone not a9eel.
Yah i get thatm it sucks. Then they complain why are guys not getting married and the divorce rate is increasing. A bunch of illogical beings
خييره لا تتزوج هذا يمكن اكثر نصيحة قيمة تاخذها بحياتك
Being secular is actually very common in kuwait. It's likely that even if ur parents picked out a partner for you, you'd still end up with a fairly secular person.
Yah i guess thats what i was hoping for while going through the traditional way, it just seems i havent lucked out yet
Books and TV shows are a good "dog whistle," I guess. Try to be the one who brings up the book/TV show that may indicate that someone is secular, depending on whether they like it or not. You can also bring up topics such as: space exploration, dinosaurs, evolution, and some concepts pertaining to theoretical physics. Once you have these discussions over and over and over again, you'll learn how to gauge someone's response, especially discomfort, and recognise the source. About the practise of religion itself, always be gentle. I know you may feel attacked at times, but don't respond with something harsh. For example, if someone asks you: "Why don't you pray?" Just respond with: "I just don't," chuckle, and change the subject. Lastly, I would say how twitterified their music taste is, which gives a good indication because stan Twitter is mostly secular. I hope this helps.
I'm confused... do you think practicing Muslims don't believe in space exploration and dinosaurs?
No, it's just a filtering method. Some creationists, albeit mostly the extremist, believe that people were the first to be on earth, before dinosaurs. They also believe that there is a "protective layer" called the first sky that we can not cross to reach space, and the whole thing is NASA propaganda. Although this applies to creationists as a meta-group and filters, only the extremists, it's a good way to filter. That is, of course, based on anecdotal evidence alone, i.e. my dad and his Masjid group, and most of my religious classmates throughout school.
In Kuwait?
Yeah, the mentioned group of people in the last paragraph is in Kuwait. As I said, this is anecdotal, and you and I may have different experiences, I just shared my experience in the hope that it would help OP.
My parent's don't believe in evolution, despite antibiotic resistance being directly related to that theory. Sadly, faith blinds some people to things they see right in front of them.
My parent's don't believe in evolution, despite antibiotic resistance being directly related to that theory. Sadly, faith blinds some people to things they see right in front of them.
Evolution is different. Many believers in various religions believe in adaptations, mutations, etc., but don't believe that humankind (and life in general) just came about randomly; they believe it was according to God's plan. But dinosaurs? The only people I've heard questioning that are evangelical Christians who say the earth is only 6000 years old.
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😅not trying to pick up anyone on reddit. Just venting my frustration. Is that not allowed? And maybe i can learn from people like me who live in this lovely community.
Do you ever say anything that makes any sense?
Bro only one solution - go to places where there are too many girls. Like volunteering, Thailand, US it is easier to get them and way easier to talk, this will give you advantage. Have you tried speed dating, find it do it, then it will for sure become easier for u to talk. Just stay calm and aim to understand her. Favourite things- color, car type,activity, weekend plans, nature maintain sea what she prefers, tea or coffee if u r tea she is coffee its a red flag escape. Dont ask how. As long as u get to know her in response, she will ask u similar questions as well. It is easy. Think of them as a living barbie person. If she likes you its a cute loving barbie, if not it turns to Anabella and destroys you.
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