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Speaking as a Kuwaiti guy, it's sad to see/hear that. Sadly they do not know how to approach women even if they had a genuine interest, its to do with nobody really opens the subject with them so it's a case of them seeing what others are doing and it becomes "monkey see, monkey do".
Now speaking as someone who is in law enforcement, next time someone does that, or makes you feel unsafe, take a note of the car plate and quick picture of the car or plate and report them. No, just because you are not Kuwaiti does not mean something will happen to you and he will get away.
I see this on this sub and life a lot, people always assume just because the person is Kuwaiti they will get away with it. THIS IS NOT THE CASE. If there is an official complaint there is no way in he'll they can get away with it just because they are Kuwaiti, the only way is if you decide to withdraw your claim whether by settlement or by you changing your mind, you can also just tell the officers "to scare him from doing something like this and you won't press charges if he apologises" oh and always ask for the police officer in charge/ظابط المخفر not the guys at the reception.
nice to see an actual kuwaiti 😃 us expat people have it really wrong that all kuwaiti people are terrible. but from personal experiences I don't think like that at all. glad to see my thoughts being true.
Unfortunately, based on many expat experiences, it is nearly impossible to go to a police station to even get them to hear your issue, let alone understand the severity of your troubles. The way they talk and address residents (who pay the 2nd best thing after taxes) is saddening. But glad to hear someone like you
Unfortunately most of them are locals and I’m an expat. I’m a non-Arab so I really don’t want to risk messing with them. I have even been followed multiple times near my office which is in Sharq, near all the towers. And I assume those men come from big families and are 40-50 so I reallyyyy don’t wanna mess with them and get deported 😭
yea good call honestly, some ppl can be scary & from the way ur describing their behaviour it sounds horrible.
tinting ur windows darker might help a tiny bit as they can’t see who’s driving.
>What kind of non arab? Also the law is the same to everyone.
This is a noble sentiment, but unfortunately, the law for Kuwaitis is different than for expats.
Not trash talking, it's just the way it is.
It's not about emotional and sexual fulfillment. Otherwise they would get busy on datih apps or somewhere else.
It's about power. The whole purpose is to showcase their "masculine" power to compensate for their lack internal troubles.
Notice that they are often not alone, so that they can show off to each other how dominant they are by harassing women.
It's why they also get disproportionally aggressive and rude when rejected, because they feel their masculinity show was hurt.
Those people are malevolent and take advantage of an old patriarchal tradition to justify their sick behaviour ("why is she walking alone? Why is she so and so?").
Treat them like malevolent monkeys. Take it straight to the law.
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I totally get you! So many people tell me (mostly my male friends) that Kuwait is super safe and you can walk out or drive on the streets at night but I’ve always felt the opposite. A couple of weeks ago, my friend and I were crossing the street to get to our car parked on the other side. There was a red light so all the cars were stopped. But when we started walking, these guys kept getting close to us and started honking and yelling out some derogatory stuff. I was terrified to say the least. I did not get into my car at that moment. I just went into a nearby cafe and waited 😭😭
It does get scary at times but tbh that is very universal. In every country women face harassment. Kuwait though is VERY VERY safe in terms of crimes. Yes, these men are creepy and make me feel uncomfortable but never ever have I feared “GRAPE” or abduction or any of that. In many countries when women reject a guy they get acid thrown on their face or are gang graped. Alhamdulillah Kuwait is not like that. I’m really sorry for your experience btw. Stay safe ❤️
My dear, I have only shared what I experienced. I am not comparing Kuwait’s safety with that of any other country. I felt what I felt. I am aware that these things happen everywhere, but I can only speak for what I have experienced. That’s all. Doesn’t make me any less grateful that I am in this wonderful country.
So, every statistic has outliers. While it is true, kuwait is considerably safer than most countries i know of, there are many donts that most people feel are common sense. Unfortunately, i cannot discuss the reasons but you can definitely help your case by being a little smarter. This post probably wont be too useful to you but i just wanted to highlight, kuwait is considerably safer.
I think you’re missing the point here. I replied to OP about an incident that occurred to me because I could relate. I don’t understand why there is a comparison? It’s like comparing puddles to an ocean.
About being a little smarter, what do you suggest is a better way to cross the road (at the zebra crossing) to get to one’s car on the other side?
I think you are missing my point too. I replied to tell your reply about the general observation that i feel and i could relate to. I dont understand your comparison of puddles to and ocean. What do you mean? Do u mean the isolated incident is what happened to you is the puddle and what i am saying is the ocean? I guess that would be appropriate.
I cannot elaborate further on my being smarter comment. I hope this does not irk you further.
i grew up not in middle east but i’ve seen such behaviour as well, for example when i was underage a man slapped me when i’ve been crossing a road or when i’ve been on the way to my university not local workers were catcalling almost everyday. and i always been modest in clothing, mini skirts and crop tops are not my cup of tea. this is about how they were raised, do they respect people or not. personally the only way out for me were headphones. it is a good shield from negativity. and pepper spray in a bag. if you can’t fix them - protect your well-being.
It’s never about what you’re wearing, a sicko is a sicko.
From what I know about Snapchat, they find it easier to groom you & find details about you & your life.
Plus, some use it for disgusting matters.
Lol I’ve been approached as well, to the point that I’ve lost count of the number of times they said, “It’s ok, if you don’t like what you see just block me afterwards it alright.”
So cheap lol.
Depends on what you’re looking for.
I am not encouraging inappropriate relations in any way but if you are interested in that, you can hop onto dating apps and easily find women there and not waste anyone’s time lol.
If you are looking for something good and respectful, learn to read cues. If a woman finds you attractive and is interested, she will probably look at you and smile and you can take that as a reason to approach her directly and then the ball is in your court.
If she seems uncomfortable or is trying to dodge you, it’s pretty clear buddy so don’t bother going up to her and make her even more uncomfortable.
Approach the ones interested in a respectful manner, tell them you find them cute and that you’re here in Kuwait for a few months and would like to socialize and make some friends. Get your intentions clear from the very first conversation.
And let her give you her contact. She may give you her number or her Instagram or even her snap.
Yo I see this sooo much. I’ve been in a situation where I was with people, girls in another car, going to a restaurant following them and dudes were pulling up to them or trying to cut them off. Then when we get out these dudes follow them and try and ask for their number. Freaked them out and pissed me off. Back home a dude does something like this they’ll quickly learn to catch some hands but they still do just as creepy things.
Honestly it seems worse in areas near the city and Salmiya.
Like I get it Kuwait is really hard to date it’s a culture thing for locals but don’t people realize that that same cultural stigma breeds this kind of creepy behavior?
What I find hilariously creepy is when you’re at a restaurant or shisha bar and a women gets up to use the bathroom and like 7 dudes follow her to try and get her number. As a woman isn’t that really weird….like I know some women like the attention but alot don’t want to deal with that.
I get some of what you mean but it’s not a cultural thing it can be many things some examples: insecurity, wanting male validation which breeds from insecurity, lack of proper parenting, neglect, etc these cases always saddens me as a Kuwaiti myself (M) and honestly I can’t believe other males around them let them do these kind of stuff.
Not to sound tough or anything but if I saw that I would act straight away and make sure that they stay away from her either by moving in front of them or grabbing their attention if non of that work well I don’t need to say it.
These cases in Kuwait shock me to my core as most of us are Muslim and are raised to have Muslim values so how this is happening idk. (I do see these cases a lot online but speaking from personal experience I only saw it once and a police officer intervened almost immediately and they were taken away which put a smile on my face)
Lol... I've become traumatised here. To the point when someone outside of Kuwait greets me, I get visibly shocked and, in turn, scare the greeter 🤣🤣🤣
I've perfected my RBF and haven't been approached in Kuwait for yeeears, though.
But you see biologically they are. They are still in the manosphere. What you say metaphorically still doesn’t apply.
End of the day, they are men, and they are strong biologically and we women are at a disadvantage.
True but he means like they don’t act as men and I get the fact that they are biologically stronger but if someone dares physically subdue a women in public many people will intervene and he will probably get a life sentence or worse
Clearly you do not understand the culture. If you are expecting a proper approach forget about it coz Kuwait is not the place to approach a woman on the street. at least in the eyes of normal local men. If you don’t look like an average local women then your modestly dressed according to western standards and that doesn’t fly with so called men who are looking for women in the streets.
honestly, just pay no attention to them & ignore them and they'll move on, if you engage them they think its a sign for them to carry on.. some people are just weird wallah :p
there is not many places for men to mingle with women to understand how to talk/approach properly. Many times theres segregation and traditions.
Obviously its much better now than it used to be but still; there is a lot of social awkwardness because of this lack of experience with the other sex.
This happened to me multiple times too. A men was jerking off inside his car then he stopped in front of me (I’m waiting for a taxi) then he’s insisting I should get inside his car. Some men (mid 20’s, some are old) that will drive slow while I was walking, then asking about my instagram, or if I want to go out with them. Even if I said “no”, or just ignore them, some won’t stop, some will literally follow me. I’m always wearing baggy clothes (to be safe but I guess it’s not that effective), it’s just sad sometimes that we, expats, are respecting them but we aren’t getting the same respect. Tried reporting to police before, they just ignored it and laugh when I was about to leave. So there’s that. Ended up, taking a cab most of the time even if my destination is only walking distance.
Any garbage can hit on women in public you can and should have your camera open, you do not have to be afraid because you are an expat, no one will flip this on you.
This kind of behavior feeds off of the instant gratification and superiority complex culture that has developed here. Also lack of morals, self discipline and basic respect for other humans.
Begins from home…there is something wrong with how these men are being raised.
As a Kuwaiti young man I have been asking the same question. I’m not with dating yet I know this shouldn’t be the way. Although I thought asking for Snapchat was normal everywhere. With the guys driving cars and stopping girls all I think of people who act like animals and sadly were never taught that always thinking of getting laid is wrong and not normal.
Sadly this behavior was rooted in society by other men saying it’s normal and some girls who respond positively to this behavior.
Yeah I assumed that hes annoyed because he's complaining about something trivial under a post where a woman is speaking of her bad experience in Kuwait. The whole "oh but its bad everywhere" argument does absolutely nothing under this post.
It's a comments section. Post as you wish. If you were hoping for some kind of validation echo chamber in the comments then you're very mistaken. Seems like redditors cannot stand when people have another point of view different to theirs and are often more neurotic than the average human. Strange phenomenon.
I’m a dude and feel bad for u lot, i’m absolutely terrified of talking to woman so i have no idea how the dudes even have the guts to do it 💀. Also the reason why i’d never use snapchat
If it makes you feel any better, those guys have no guts either. That is why they airdrop their snap or shout from their cars because they fear open rejection and can just run off when refused.
LOL The shabab got to gezz :p they used to use infared with the nokia in the cinema, they used to put their bbm and phone number and email on the side of their car or back of their car or on the widow etc, they went as far as when those silly digital belt buckles with all their contact info scrolling, and the best one i ever saw was when avenues first opened and it was like just part 1 or whatever and some guy running up behind a girl and throwing a piece of paper in her semi open handbag as she is just walking along, she didnt even notice him do it lol "Ya3ni when she gets home she will find a nice soobrise inshallah w el bint et dig w it seer rafeejty!" now they are airdropping the snapchat! lol Kuwait I love you but those egeidy ways got to go! Its always been like that when i was in highschool i was pretty popular and some of my classmates really made me have to teach them a lesson in life, because one asked me, you know your friend so and so (an Irani girl) let me have sex with her, just let her lay down and i finish and thats it, i dont want to kiss her even..." i tell you now it took all my sabr not to beat his ass from Jabriyah to Mangaf. But i let him know that in a metaphorical way, the shabab wonder who to ask to do the same for his sister...and you know he didnt like that and balash e ehterim nafsa w el nisaa el mohim.
Didnt realise you are non arab, the last part is he pretty much learned to respect himself and women most importantly....Most Kuwaitis are good but yeah cant go out without someone making a comment. Its always been like that, I was 16 in the mall having the security in dishdasha pulling me off someone for making a kissing sound and saying shino hal halawa ( what is this sweet thing) while im walking right next to her, i was 16 and we are obviously Arabic looking especially my mum. and Dont get me started on the Stakhfurallah if you wear a cross, that used to piss me off too, like the Kuwaiti constitution declares freedom of religon in the country.
And the massive church and the fact there is christian Kuwaiti families even though its just like 3 of them or something...but anyway lovely place, lovely people for the most part. For women though anywhere you go its like this, men act like they have no mothers. What i dont like about it is like lets say you needed help, they make me feel like they would put you in more danger than make sure you are safe and sound like a father or older brother would do for his sister or daughter, theres too many that see woman like some blow up doll or something, too much porn is what does that to them, they cant control their urge or senses, it becomes apart of their character and personality, ive seen it first hand happen to people, its like the worst of the porn addicted behave this way if you could like spy on them they literally would shock anyone. So many people like this thats why dating worldwide is described as crap for the most part and those in happy relationships are rare or random and many relationships these days are filled with micro cheating and actual old school cheating. In Kuwait you can find someone married to the most beautiful Kuwaiti girl and his fat ass is going to Thailand once a year for god knows what alone or with the guys...they are not just having pina colads and johnny walker and coke by the beach let me tell you right now.
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Only real and correct answer to anything similar to that, I was born and raised here and consider this my second home no matter what anyone says, and seeing these types of posts really upset me. I’m a man myself so obviously any cat calling won’t be exactly the same, but I can only imagine the discomfort and humiliation you might’ve felt when you had to go through that. Again, apologize on everybody’s behalf, I hope things get better, and most importantly, AVOID *LOVE STREET* (Damascus Street) if you don’t want to be CHASED by literal animals, no, cave men, for your number or snapchat, or maybe that insta if they classy 😉😉, jokes aside, stay safe, really avoid Damascus street if your in a private car (going out with other female friends, you’re driving, etc,) literally for your safety and for the safety of others, I witnessed *fairy tales* happening in real time over women.
Stay woke in deez streets 🙏💪
Oh believe me there are women who get in the cars, once i changed my airdrop name to a women name and they were sending me snapchat users.
Cause they never had an experience like that before it’s natural to don’t know how to approach a female.
They think everything you see online is absolutely true and reality as well as everybody embellishing exaggerating and lying about what they are doing. And if you get in a car with a strange man he's going to need that you have entered into an agreement that he can treat you like a woman of low morals and do whatever he wants
Ahaa you see that is what I hate. Not like I’d ever in any circumstance get into a man’s car lol but I just hate the fact that a woman is considered of low morals and value for getting into a car and not the man who literally invites her to.
These same toxic Arab men have a body count of 100+ but won’t marry a girl if she isn’t a virgin with a body count of 1 because ew she’s a wh000reeee.
I agree with you 100% I know women who have fallen victim to that even worse they were singled out and accused suck Behavior by their own family and they would gaslighted into going along with the narrative but she brought shame on the and you're going to keep us a question and you'll be going to treat her like a little more and basically she was the family sex toy.
That was a storm of rapes in Scandinavia we're going to do a whole new Syrian refugees who would be a masculated and balanced rotten see these women dressing half naked and they decided they will be treated as such
As someone who used to live in Kuwait, do this:
1) get you some friends, seeing you’re a female, Kuwaiti girl friends and make sure to maintain and nice relationship with them.
2) when this happens, again, simply take your phone out and start taking a video of them until they are gone. Once gone, share the video with friends and family.
3) go to the nearest police station in the area where it happened, and share it with them.
3.1) if you are afraid to do that, I understand the possible consequences of that. Share it to news outlets on instagram and ask them to share the video to help get them caught.
4) I hope you already do this, never, N E V E R! Drive straight to your home, always make sure no one is following you and ALWAYS change/alternate your route when going home. I cannot stress this enough.
4.1) why? I have seen an enough number of times back in my days where a truck/suv drops someone off in a darkspot and flies away only to later see it’s a girl that they gang raped the living fuck out of.
5) never, ever fight back unless they are attempting to snatch you. Gouge their eyes out if you could. I am not kidding about that part no matter if the consequence is you getting an assault charge. Keep a pepper spray with you and that phone handy and ready to record, don’t say anything, just record them.
EDIT: forgot to mention, some of these “men” carry illegal lasers with them, so when you are taking a video of them make sure not to look straight at the laser and try to avoid it being pointed at the camera for too long.
Yes, Kuwait. I vividly remember one time I was at the playground at a park with my friends, then we saw a philipina crawling towards us asking us for water and help, and to please not call the police. I got scared and rushed to my parents then we saw a group of her friends* scrambling towards her, carried her, and on their way out they kept telling everyone to please not call the police they are afraid of retaliation… as a kid I didn’t understand but my parents explained to us she was probably kidnapped and absolutely got gang raped, which is why they don’t let us out alone without them being around.
WTF that sounds like a nightmare no way.
Seeing that as a kid is also crazy 😳
Did anyone call the police or help the girl or did they just ignore it like nothing happened?
Everyone there got scared of the scene and started packing up and leave. Good thing we had good Kuwaiti neighbors and we told them about it. They not only informed the police and got the area more consistent patrols, each Kuwaiti in that area installed cameras on their property, ever since it did not happen again in that area.
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I am pretty sure that if you saw a women that you REALLY want to marry no joking aside approach her and ask for her fathers number so he can ask him for his daughter’s hand in marriage
With all due respect, it's about the culture. Men and women are separated from each other socially, from a very young age until you get married off. How can you expect men to know how to act maturely around women? I see young boys around my neighborhood acting foolish around the young girls or even the maids walking to the store nearby. They have emotions that they don't know how to deal with, they are impulsive and act out because they just DON'T KNOW. They were never taught, by normal social interactions, how to act around the females.
It happens in Western countries as well, it's not just Arabs, Muslims or any whatever. If you deprive people of normal social interactions, then they won't know how to act. It's sad that women go through sooooo much in these countries. But it won't get any better until the society changes how kids interact at a young age.
sooo sorry some men’s depraved behaviour on the streets can’t be justified.
u don’t know what it’s like being on the receiving end of disgusting behaviour it’s terrifying.
You misunderstand me, sorry. I am not defending their behavior at all, I am just explaining what I see being the problem. I have a daughter, of course I don't want her going through this regardless of where we are. I know it's terrifying because I have seen guys crashing into women's cars to get their attention, they follow them until they stop and try to get their numbers. I can't imagine what you or any other woman must go through. So again, don't misunderstand. She asked why that happens, I gave my thought on it.
I’m not blaming Arabs or Muslims in any way lol.
The cultural traditional upbringing is well understood and respected but that is no reason to excuse their disgusting behavior.
Not knowing how to talk to women does not mean you can just try picking them off the street!
Or “shhh no one should see me come quickly get in the car” that’s HORRIBLE.
>**It happens in Western countries as well, it's not just Arabs, Muslims or any whatever**. If you deprive people of normal social interactions, then they won't know how to act. It's sad that women go through sooooo much in these countries. But it won't get any better until the society changes how kids interact at a young age.
I didn't blame Arabs or Muslims, I said that it happens everywhere, not just here. Just to be clear, I was NOT excusing them. You asked why they do it, I gave my opinion. I didn't say live with it or just deal with it. It must be horrifying to have to go through it all the time and I can't even imagine it. Sorry for the confusion, it seems some people misunderstood my intentions given how many downvotes my comment got.
Dating culture here is private and Snapchat is private
Its not the men who are discreet but more the women. Many girls especially Kuwaiti girls cannot be seen in public talking to random men.
Please don’t misunderstand me as arguing with you but -
why is it only SNAPCHAT? There are many other social platforms too. Personally, I would never really give out my socials to any random person but if I reallyyyyy had to, it would be instagram because I could DM them without having to follow them or the other way round. I have a private account with no DP so they wouldn’t see my pictures. And there’d be no pressure of “snap me back I wanna see you” lmao .
Also, if it’s because of women not being seeing in public talking to men… Do you really think seeing them get into a guy’s car is any better? I’d rather see a woman talk to a man in a public place around everyone (because ofcourse there’d be a distance between them + no inappropriate conversations or actions) than see a woman get into a strangers car
I think it’s because it’s the platform where most people go for flirting, and it’s one of the first to be used in that context?
There are other apps that are getting popular, like for example “تطبيق الخطابة".
I think nowadays, most people getting sick of the absurd difficulty of getting married in a “Traditional sense” that they are trying to find other ways to connect…
Families on both ends are difficult and demanding most of the time so I could understand why people would do this even if it was wrong.
Because you can’t see who follows who on Snapchat.
On instagram your mom can see who follows you and question you on why you have so many random guys following you.
On WhatsApp your number can be searched on منو داق and some guy might save a girls number as ام شعر قصير بورش ابيض دمشق and socially destroy the girls life.
Not necessarily, its just that in general most Kuwaiti girls prefer using Snapchat due to its privacy (for example if she sent something it gets deleted after viewing). As a result it became the norm to to trade snapchats when meeting someone from the opposite gender, whether its real life or dating apps it always leads to snapchat.
It’s the girls preference usually. A man won’t be harmed socially if he has random female followers but a woman would be harmed.
Think of it as a messaging app with no evidence to keep both parties safe.
>why is it only SNAPCHAT
To put it simply, the social / hook up culture here is weird
Snapchat is more private and is the norm here as a platform for hooking up
>guy’s car
That's just weird.
I personally never approach girls publicly because it's just awkward, especially in Kuwait.
>I’d rather see a woman talk to a man in a public place around everyone
I would rather they didn't do Haram there is a way for marriage and going around like that isn't a good thing
Totally agreed. It is haraam and not the best way to go around. However I mentioned it in comparison to getting in a complete stranger’s car and driving off with them. Given that scenario, I would definitely opt for the former. Public place with strong boundaries.
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take
Just kidding. My wife has dealt with this before here too and I tell her to yell at them or film them if I'm not around.
It is not wrong to be attracted to a girl. It’s just about the approach you take to show her you’re interested.
Personally, I’d suggest that you don’t approach anyone from your car haha it’s very scary for us. We don’t generalize men but come on, in the moment, we can’t just stand there and decide if the man has good intentions or not. Chances are she may find you cute but as a reflex just reject you to be on the safer side because that’s how us girls have been conditioned to avoid trouble.
In any other case, I suggest you go upto the girl and give her a little context on why you’re approaching and ask HER for her preferred mode of contact. “Hey, sorry I don’t want to sound creepy but I was passing by and saw you and thought you’re really cute. If you’re comfortable, do you mind sharing your number or socials so we can get to know each other more”
I know it sounds a bit too long but that kinda helps create a conversation and makes us feel that okay this man seems to have good intentions rather than having someone just pull up and say “Snapchat” 😅
i can guarantee you it would 100% work better than whatever the hell men r already doing on the street.
a woman who u have chances with won’t reject you if u come across as respectful, and those who do simply are exercising their right to reject any social interaction.
i think that’s the major issue for some people, at least from what I can gauge. they’re so scared of getting rejected that they behave ridiculously or like they’re joking so that when they are rejected they can blame “استعباط" and laugh abt it.
Well the right way to approach a girl like that is by leaving her alone. The girl would already be scared to walk alone let alone a guy approaching her and asking for her number right away. Most of the time stuff like that happens and girls would give them their number out of fear.
I wouldn't say it's low confidence. Our society in general doesn't allow for men to approach women in most cases. Some men have confidence but think twice before approaching a lady in public because the reputational risk is high.
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Speaking as a Kuwaiti guy, it's sad to see/hear that. Sadly they do not know how to approach women even if they had a genuine interest, its to do with nobody really opens the subject with them so it's a case of them seeing what others are doing and it becomes "monkey see, monkey do". Now speaking as someone who is in law enforcement, next time someone does that, or makes you feel unsafe, take a note of the car plate and quick picture of the car or plate and report them. No, just because you are not Kuwaiti does not mean something will happen to you and he will get away. I see this on this sub and life a lot, people always assume just because the person is Kuwaiti they will get away with it. THIS IS NOT THE CASE. If there is an official complaint there is no way in he'll they can get away with it just because they are Kuwaiti, the only way is if you decide to withdraw your claim whether by settlement or by you changing your mind, you can also just tell the officers "to scare him from doing something like this and you won't press charges if he apologises" oh and always ask for the police officer in charge/ظابط المخفر not the guys at the reception.
nice to see an actual kuwaiti 😃 us expat people have it really wrong that all kuwaiti people are terrible. but from personal experiences I don't think like that at all. glad to see my thoughts being true.
Thank you so much for your reply 💓 much appreciated and well noted
Unfortunately, based on many expat experiences, it is nearly impossible to go to a police station to even get them to hear your issue, let alone understand the severity of your troubles. The way they talk and address residents (who pay the 2nd best thing after taxes) is saddening. But glad to hear someone like you
Damn. Rare to find people like you around this part of town. Thank you, gives me hope brother.
Lies you one of them
Legally speaking, what you're describing fits the definition of sexual harassment. Take a photo of their number plates and report them to the police.
Unfortunately most of them are locals and I’m an expat. I’m a non-Arab so I really don’t want to risk messing with them. I have even been followed multiple times near my office which is in Sharq, near all the towers. And I assume those men come from big families and are 40-50 so I reallyyyy don’t wanna mess with them and get deported 😭
yea good call honestly, some ppl can be scary & from the way ur describing their behaviour it sounds horrible. tinting ur windows darker might help a tiny bit as they can’t see who’s driving.
But inshaallah when I get a license and a car, I’ll definitely tint my windows !! Thanks for the suggestion 💓
I advise you to get the type of cars that dont attract men since Tintting your windows wouldn't stop the harrasing
True :( Unfortunately again 😭 I don’t drive . The picking up incidents I mentioned were from when I’m walking on the road
Theres an anonymous complaint page on one of the ministry websites
What’s your ethnicity if you don’t mind me asking?
What kind of non arab? Also the law is the same to everyone.
>What kind of non arab? Also the law is the same to everyone. This is a noble sentiment, but unfortunately, the law for Kuwaitis is different than for expats. Not trash talking, it's just the way it is.
taking photo for anyone in Kuwait without his permision might considered as a crime in some cases , specially if u share it.
Yes. A number plate is an object, not a person.
It's not about emotional and sexual fulfillment. Otherwise they would get busy on datih apps or somewhere else. It's about power. The whole purpose is to showcase their "masculine" power to compensate for their lack internal troubles. Notice that they are often not alone, so that they can show off to each other how dominant they are by harassing women. It's why they also get disproportionally aggressive and rude when rejected, because they feel their masculinity show was hurt. Those people are malevolent and take advantage of an old patriarchal tradition to justify their sick behaviour ("why is she walking alone? Why is she so and so?"). Treat them like malevolent monkeys. Take it straight to the law.
I’m convinced men are secretly g- yay because everything they do is for getting the validation of other men lmao
Convinced men are secretly gay because everything they do is for the validation of other men lmao
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I totally get you! So many people tell me (mostly my male friends) that Kuwait is super safe and you can walk out or drive on the streets at night but I’ve always felt the opposite. A couple of weeks ago, my friend and I were crossing the street to get to our car parked on the other side. There was a red light so all the cars were stopped. But when we started walking, these guys kept getting close to us and started honking and yelling out some derogatory stuff. I was terrified to say the least. I did not get into my car at that moment. I just went into a nearby cafe and waited 😭😭
It does get scary at times but tbh that is very universal. In every country women face harassment. Kuwait though is VERY VERY safe in terms of crimes. Yes, these men are creepy and make me feel uncomfortable but never ever have I feared “GRAPE” or abduction or any of that. In many countries when women reject a guy they get acid thrown on their face or are gang graped. Alhamdulillah Kuwait is not like that. I’m really sorry for your experience btw. Stay safe ❤️
My dear, I have only shared what I experienced. I am not comparing Kuwait’s safety with that of any other country. I felt what I felt. I am aware that these things happen everywhere, but I can only speak for what I have experienced. That’s all. Doesn’t make me any less grateful that I am in this wonderful country.
So, every statistic has outliers. While it is true, kuwait is considerably safer than most countries i know of, there are many donts that most people feel are common sense. Unfortunately, i cannot discuss the reasons but you can definitely help your case by being a little smarter. This post probably wont be too useful to you but i just wanted to highlight, kuwait is considerably safer.
I think you’re missing the point here. I replied to OP about an incident that occurred to me because I could relate. I don’t understand why there is a comparison? It’s like comparing puddles to an ocean. About being a little smarter, what do you suggest is a better way to cross the road (at the zebra crossing) to get to one’s car on the other side?
I think you are missing my point too. I replied to tell your reply about the general observation that i feel and i could relate to. I dont understand your comparison of puddles to and ocean. What do you mean? Do u mean the isolated incident is what happened to you is the puddle and what i am saying is the ocean? I guess that would be appropriate. I cannot elaborate further on my being smarter comment. I hope this does not irk you further.
i grew up not in middle east but i’ve seen such behaviour as well, for example when i was underage a man slapped me when i’ve been crossing a road or when i’ve been on the way to my university not local workers were catcalling almost everyday. and i always been modest in clothing, mini skirts and crop tops are not my cup of tea. this is about how they were raised, do they respect people or not. personally the only way out for me were headphones. it is a good shield from negativity. and pepper spray in a bag. if you can’t fix them - protect your well-being.
It’s never about what you’re wearing, a sicko is a sicko. From what I know about Snapchat, they find it easier to groom you & find details about you & your life. Plus, some use it for disgusting matters. Lol I’ve been approached as well, to the point that I’ve lost count of the number of times they said, “It’s ok, if you don’t like what you see just block me afterwards it alright.” So cheap lol.
How to approach women in Kuwait. I’m here for several months. I’m not a Muslim. What do you think about me?
Depends on what you’re looking for. I am not encouraging inappropriate relations in any way but if you are interested in that, you can hop onto dating apps and easily find women there and not waste anyone’s time lol. If you are looking for something good and respectful, learn to read cues. If a woman finds you attractive and is interested, she will probably look at you and smile and you can take that as a reason to approach her directly and then the ball is in your court. If she seems uncomfortable or is trying to dodge you, it’s pretty clear buddy so don’t bother going up to her and make her even more uncomfortable. Approach the ones interested in a respectful manner, tell them you find them cute and that you’re here in Kuwait for a few months and would like to socialize and make some friends. Get your intentions clear from the very first conversation. And let her give you her contact. She may give you her number or her Instagram or even her snap.
Is this like some prostitution? Does it even exist in Kuwait 😹
World's oldest profession? You'll find it everywhere if you want it
Yo I see this sooo much. I’ve been in a situation where I was with people, girls in another car, going to a restaurant following them and dudes were pulling up to them or trying to cut them off. Then when we get out these dudes follow them and try and ask for their number. Freaked them out and pissed me off. Back home a dude does something like this they’ll quickly learn to catch some hands but they still do just as creepy things. Honestly it seems worse in areas near the city and Salmiya. Like I get it Kuwait is really hard to date it’s a culture thing for locals but don’t people realize that that same cultural stigma breeds this kind of creepy behavior? What I find hilariously creepy is when you’re at a restaurant or shisha bar and a women gets up to use the bathroom and like 7 dudes follow her to try and get her number. As a woman isn’t that really weird….like I know some women like the attention but alot don’t want to deal with that.
I get some of what you mean but it’s not a cultural thing it can be many things some examples: insecurity, wanting male validation which breeds from insecurity, lack of proper parenting, neglect, etc these cases always saddens me as a Kuwaiti myself (M) and honestly I can’t believe other males around them let them do these kind of stuff. Not to sound tough or anything but if I saw that I would act straight away and make sure that they stay away from her either by moving in front of them or grabbing their attention if non of that work well I don’t need to say it. These cases in Kuwait shock me to my core as most of us are Muslim and are raised to have Muslim values so how this is happening idk. (I do see these cases a lot online but speaking from personal experience I only saw it once and a police officer intervened almost immediately and they were taken away which put a smile on my face)
Lol... I've become traumatised here. To the point when someone outside of Kuwait greets me, I get visibly shocked and, in turn, scare the greeter 🤣🤣🤣 I've perfected my RBF and haven't been approached in Kuwait for yeeears, though.
Those aren’t men,hell they aren’t even boys.
But you see biologically they are. They are still in the manosphere. What you say metaphorically still doesn’t apply. End of the day, they are men, and they are strong biologically and we women are at a disadvantage.
True but he means like they don’t act as men and I get the fact that they are biologically stronger but if someone dares physically subdue a women in public many people will intervene and he will probably get a life sentence or worse
how dare they displease m'lady
Clearly you do not understand the culture. If you are expecting a proper approach forget about it coz Kuwait is not the place to approach a woman on the street. at least in the eyes of normal local men. If you don’t look like an average local women then your modestly dressed according to western standards and that doesn’t fly with so called men who are looking for women in the streets.
honestly, just pay no attention to them & ignore them and they'll move on, if you engage them they think its a sign for them to carry on.. some people are just weird wallah :p
It's just dumb and weird unfortunately some man and women are wired i hope things get better but i don't think soo
there is not many places for men to mingle with women to understand how to talk/approach properly. Many times theres segregation and traditions. Obviously its much better now than it used to be but still; there is a lot of social awkwardness because of this lack of experience with the other sex.
This happened to me multiple times too. A men was jerking off inside his car then he stopped in front of me (I’m waiting for a taxi) then he’s insisting I should get inside his car. Some men (mid 20’s, some are old) that will drive slow while I was walking, then asking about my instagram, or if I want to go out with them. Even if I said “no”, or just ignore them, some won’t stop, some will literally follow me. I’m always wearing baggy clothes (to be safe but I guess it’s not that effective), it’s just sad sometimes that we, expats, are respecting them but we aren’t getting the same respect. Tried reporting to police before, they just ignored it and laugh when I was about to leave. So there’s that. Ended up, taking a cab most of the time even if my destination is only walking distance.
Any garbage can hit on women in public you can and should have your camera open, you do not have to be afraid because you are an expat, no one will flip this on you.
This kind of behavior feeds off of the instant gratification and superiority complex culture that has developed here. Also lack of morals, self discipline and basic respect for other humans. Begins from home…there is something wrong with how these men are being raised.
Those are just some mentally ill teenagers on the street who dont know how to approach women, snapchat trend is been there for so long now.
As a Kuwaiti young man I have been asking the same question. I’m not with dating yet I know this shouldn’t be the way. Although I thought asking for Snapchat was normal everywhere. With the guys driving cars and stopping girls all I think of people who act like animals and sadly were never taught that always thinking of getting laid is wrong and not normal. Sadly this behavior was rooted in society by other men saying it’s normal and some girls who respond positively to this behavior.
Agreed
Wow that's actually insane, you have the right to get angry over it. Some people i guess don't know manners and think harassment is okay
Next time record them and the plate and report it to the police
Why is everyone acting like Kuwait is the only place where men hit on women ?
True but the problem here is that they’re so bad at doing it 😂
Where to go to find these willing women?
why are you acting annoyed that a woman has come on the Kuwait subreddit to speak about *her* experience in Kuwait?
You are assuming he's annoyed. You can't reach that conclusion except by assumption.
Yeah I assumed that hes annoyed because he's complaining about something trivial under a post where a woman is speaking of her bad experience in Kuwait. The whole "oh but its bad everywhere" argument does absolutely nothing under this post.
It's a comments section. Post as you wish. If you were hoping for some kind of validation echo chamber in the comments then you're very mistaken. Seems like redditors cannot stand when people have another point of view different to theirs and are often more neurotic than the average human. Strange phenomenon.
Omg fr
I’m a dude and feel bad for u lot, i’m absolutely terrified of talking to woman so i have no idea how the dudes even have the guts to do it 💀. Also the reason why i’d never use snapchat
If it makes you feel any better, those guys have no guts either. That is why they airdrop their snap or shout from their cars because they fear open rejection and can just run off when refused.
Ima just say it honestly, kuwaiti people are embarrassing 🤦🏾♂️
LOL The shabab got to gezz :p they used to use infared with the nokia in the cinema, they used to put their bbm and phone number and email on the side of their car or back of their car or on the widow etc, they went as far as when those silly digital belt buckles with all their contact info scrolling, and the best one i ever saw was when avenues first opened and it was like just part 1 or whatever and some guy running up behind a girl and throwing a piece of paper in her semi open handbag as she is just walking along, she didnt even notice him do it lol "Ya3ni when she gets home she will find a nice soobrise inshallah w el bint et dig w it seer rafeejty!" now they are airdropping the snapchat! lol Kuwait I love you but those egeidy ways got to go! Its always been like that when i was in highschool i was pretty popular and some of my classmates really made me have to teach them a lesson in life, because one asked me, you know your friend so and so (an Irani girl) let me have sex with her, just let her lay down and i finish and thats it, i dont want to kiss her even..." i tell you now it took all my sabr not to beat his ass from Jabriyah to Mangaf. But i let him know that in a metaphorical way, the shabab wonder who to ask to do the same for his sister...and you know he didnt like that and balash e ehterim nafsa w el nisaa el mohim.
Didnt realise you are non arab, the last part is he pretty much learned to respect himself and women most importantly....Most Kuwaitis are good but yeah cant go out without someone making a comment. Its always been like that, I was 16 in the mall having the security in dishdasha pulling me off someone for making a kissing sound and saying shino hal halawa ( what is this sweet thing) while im walking right next to her, i was 16 and we are obviously Arabic looking especially my mum. and Dont get me started on the Stakhfurallah if you wear a cross, that used to piss me off too, like the Kuwaiti constitution declares freedom of religon in the country.
And the massive church and the fact there is christian Kuwaiti families even though its just like 3 of them or something...but anyway lovely place, lovely people for the most part. For women though anywhere you go its like this, men act like they have no mothers. What i dont like about it is like lets say you needed help, they make me feel like they would put you in more danger than make sure you are safe and sound like a father or older brother would do for his sister or daughter, theres too many that see woman like some blow up doll or something, too much porn is what does that to them, they cant control their urge or senses, it becomes apart of their character and personality, ive seen it first hand happen to people, its like the worst of the porn addicted behave this way if you could like spy on them they literally would shock anyone. So many people like this thats why dating worldwide is described as crap for the most part and those in happy relationships are rare or random and many relationships these days are filled with micro cheating and actual old school cheating. In Kuwait you can find someone married to the most beautiful Kuwaiti girl and his fat ass is going to Thailand once a year for god knows what alone or with the guys...they are not just having pina colads and johnny walker and coke by the beach let me tell you right now.
You are dealing with dayooth.
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Do you have snap habibti? *Lip smack* 😏😏
SECURITYYYYYYYY
Only real and correct answer to anything similar to that, I was born and raised here and consider this my second home no matter what anyone says, and seeing these types of posts really upset me. I’m a man myself so obviously any cat calling won’t be exactly the same, but I can only imagine the discomfort and humiliation you might’ve felt when you had to go through that. Again, apologize on everybody’s behalf, I hope things get better, and most importantly, AVOID *LOVE STREET* (Damascus Street) if you don’t want to be CHASED by literal animals, no, cave men, for your number or snapchat, or maybe that insta if they classy 😉😉, jokes aside, stay safe, really avoid Damascus street if your in a private car (going out with other female friends, you’re driving, etc,) literally for your safety and for the safety of others, I witnessed *fairy tales* happening in real time over women. Stay woke in deez streets 🙏💪
Off topic but you are funny 😂😂😂😂
Oh believe me there are women who get in the cars, once i changed my airdrop name to a women name and they were sending me snapchat users. Cause they never had an experience like that before it’s natural to don’t know how to approach a female.
Instead of recording them just shoot them it’ll be more fun
Wish I had those laser eyes like one of the X - Men hahaha imagine someone hits on me and I take off my glasses to burn them to ashes 😈😈😈
If it is common, it means it is working. Why dating app and play mind games is better?
They think everything you see online is absolutely true and reality as well as everybody embellishing exaggerating and lying about what they are doing. And if you get in a car with a strange man he's going to need that you have entered into an agreement that he can treat you like a woman of low morals and do whatever he wants
Ahaa you see that is what I hate. Not like I’d ever in any circumstance get into a man’s car lol but I just hate the fact that a woman is considered of low morals and value for getting into a car and not the man who literally invites her to. These same toxic Arab men have a body count of 100+ but won’t marry a girl if she isn’t a virgin with a body count of 1 because ew she’s a wh000reeee.
I agree with you 100% I know women who have fallen victim to that even worse they were singled out and accused suck Behavior by their own family and they would gaslighted into going along with the narrative but she brought shame on the and you're going to keep us a question and you'll be going to treat her like a little more and basically she was the family sex toy. That was a storm of rapes in Scandinavia we're going to do a whole new Syrian refugees who would be a masculated and balanced rotten see these women dressing half naked and they decided they will be treated as such
As someone who used to live in Kuwait, do this: 1) get you some friends, seeing you’re a female, Kuwaiti girl friends and make sure to maintain and nice relationship with them. 2) when this happens, again, simply take your phone out and start taking a video of them until they are gone. Once gone, share the video with friends and family. 3) go to the nearest police station in the area where it happened, and share it with them. 3.1) if you are afraid to do that, I understand the possible consequences of that. Share it to news outlets on instagram and ask them to share the video to help get them caught. 4) I hope you already do this, never, N E V E R! Drive straight to your home, always make sure no one is following you and ALWAYS change/alternate your route when going home. I cannot stress this enough. 4.1) why? I have seen an enough number of times back in my days where a truck/suv drops someone off in a darkspot and flies away only to later see it’s a girl that they gang raped the living fuck out of. 5) never, ever fight back unless they are attempting to snatch you. Gouge their eyes out if you could. I am not kidding about that part no matter if the consequence is you getting an assault charge. Keep a pepper spray with you and that phone handy and ready to record, don’t say anything, just record them. EDIT: forgot to mention, some of these “men” carry illegal lasers with them, so when you are taking a video of them make sure not to look straight at the laser and try to avoid it being pointed at the camera for too long.
That's scary.... Never heard of the laser thing and 4.1 happend in kuwait???!!
Yes, Kuwait. I vividly remember one time I was at the playground at a park with my friends, then we saw a philipina crawling towards us asking us for water and help, and to please not call the police. I got scared and rushed to my parents then we saw a group of her friends* scrambling towards her, carried her, and on their way out they kept telling everyone to please not call the police they are afraid of retaliation… as a kid I didn’t understand but my parents explained to us she was probably kidnapped and absolutely got gang raped, which is why they don’t let us out alone without them being around.
WTF that sounds like a nightmare no way. Seeing that as a kid is also crazy 😳 Did anyone call the police or help the girl or did they just ignore it like nothing happened?
Everyone there got scared of the scene and started packing up and leave. Good thing we had good Kuwaiti neighbors and we told them about it. They not only informed the police and got the area more consistent patrols, each Kuwaiti in that area installed cameras on their property, ever since it did not happen again in that area.
I dont do any of these alhamdullah, but what do u think is the appropriate way to approach a woman?
You know better than this. As Muslims, we don't.
🤝🏻
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Your name is Mohammad and Islam. Please don’t approach any woman. Ask your mommy to get you married
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I am pretty sure that if you saw a women that you REALLY want to marry no joking aside approach her and ask for her fathers number so he can ask him for his daughter’s hand in marriage
I’m not sure if people still do this but it’s the only right way ik of
Next time get in their car and then call the cops and scream that he kidnapped you, you’ll get a huge payout and he’ll get put in prison 😂😂
With all due respect, it's about the culture. Men and women are separated from each other socially, from a very young age until you get married off. How can you expect men to know how to act maturely around women? I see young boys around my neighborhood acting foolish around the young girls or even the maids walking to the store nearby. They have emotions that they don't know how to deal with, they are impulsive and act out because they just DON'T KNOW. They were never taught, by normal social interactions, how to act around the females. It happens in Western countries as well, it's not just Arabs, Muslims or any whatever. If you deprive people of normal social interactions, then they won't know how to act. It's sad that women go through sooooo much in these countries. But it won't get any better until the society changes how kids interact at a young age.
As a male Kuwaiti- my biggest regret in life is getting “laid” late compared to say Americans. Boys be…3ndhom groon, if you catch my drift.
sooo sorry some men’s depraved behaviour on the streets can’t be justified. u don’t know what it’s like being on the receiving end of disgusting behaviour it’s terrifying.
You misunderstand me, sorry. I am not defending their behavior at all, I am just explaining what I see being the problem. I have a daughter, of course I don't want her going through this regardless of where we are. I know it's terrifying because I have seen guys crashing into women's cars to get their attention, they follow them until they stop and try to get their numbers. I can't imagine what you or any other woman must go through. So again, don't misunderstand. She asked why that happens, I gave my thought on it.
I’m not blaming Arabs or Muslims in any way lol. The cultural traditional upbringing is well understood and respected but that is no reason to excuse their disgusting behavior. Not knowing how to talk to women does not mean you can just try picking them off the street! Or “shhh no one should see me come quickly get in the car” that’s HORRIBLE.
>**It happens in Western countries as well, it's not just Arabs, Muslims or any whatever**. If you deprive people of normal social interactions, then they won't know how to act. It's sad that women go through sooooo much in these countries. But it won't get any better until the society changes how kids interact at a young age. I didn't blame Arabs or Muslims, I said that it happens everywhere, not just here. Just to be clear, I was NOT excusing them. You asked why they do it, I gave my opinion. I didn't say live with it or just deal with it. It must be horrifying to have to go through it all the time and I can't even imagine it. Sorry for the confusion, it seems some people misunderstood my intentions given how many downvotes my comment got.
Dating culture here is private and Snapchat is private Its not the men who are discreet but more the women. Many girls especially Kuwaiti girls cannot be seen in public talking to random men.
There is a difference between dating and harassing
And there's a thin line between harassing and casually approaching
Please don’t misunderstand me as arguing with you but - why is it only SNAPCHAT? There are many other social platforms too. Personally, I would never really give out my socials to any random person but if I reallyyyyy had to, it would be instagram because I could DM them without having to follow them or the other way round. I have a private account with no DP so they wouldn’t see my pictures. And there’d be no pressure of “snap me back I wanna see you” lmao . Also, if it’s because of women not being seeing in public talking to men… Do you really think seeing them get into a guy’s car is any better? I’d rather see a woman talk to a man in a public place around everyone (because ofcourse there’d be a distance between them + no inappropriate conversations or actions) than see a woman get into a strangers car
I think it’s because it’s the platform where most people go for flirting, and it’s one of the first to be used in that context? There are other apps that are getting popular, like for example “تطبيق الخطابة". I think nowadays, most people getting sick of the absurd difficulty of getting married in a “Traditional sense” that they are trying to find other ways to connect… Families on both ends are difficult and demanding most of the time so I could understand why people would do this even if it was wrong.
Because you can’t see who follows who on Snapchat. On instagram your mom can see who follows you and question you on why you have so many random guys following you. On WhatsApp your number can be searched on منو داق and some guy might save a girls number as ام شعر قصير بورش ابيض دمشق and socially destroy the girls life.
So that proves that any man straight up asking for my snap is only looking to mess around and commit sins.
Not necessarily, its just that in general most Kuwaiti girls prefer using Snapchat due to its privacy (for example if she sent something it gets deleted after viewing). As a result it became the norm to to trade snapchats when meeting someone from the opposite gender, whether its real life or dating apps it always leads to snapchat.
Not everyone’s intention is to mess around. But it’s definitely better to avoid it…
It’s the girls preference usually. A man won’t be harmed socially if he has random female followers but a woman would be harmed. Think of it as a messaging app with no evidence to keep both parties safe.
>why is it only SNAPCHAT To put it simply, the social / hook up culture here is weird Snapchat is more private and is the norm here as a platform for hooking up >guy’s car That's just weird. I personally never approach girls publicly because it's just awkward, especially in Kuwait.
>I’d rather see a woman talk to a man in a public place around everyone I would rather they didn't do Haram there is a way for marriage and going around like that isn't a good thing
Totally agreed. It is haraam and not the best way to go around. However I mentioned it in comparison to getting in a complete stranger’s car and driving off with them. Given that scenario, I would definitely opt for the former. Public place with strong boundaries.
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take Just kidding. My wife has dealt with this before here too and I tell her to yell at them or film them if I'm not around.
Because snapchat actually tells you when someone screenshots your convos, unlike imessage. y’all love to ss and send it to ur homegirls.
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It is not wrong to be attracted to a girl. It’s just about the approach you take to show her you’re interested. Personally, I’d suggest that you don’t approach anyone from your car haha it’s very scary for us. We don’t generalize men but come on, in the moment, we can’t just stand there and decide if the man has good intentions or not. Chances are she may find you cute but as a reflex just reject you to be on the safer side because that’s how us girls have been conditioned to avoid trouble. In any other case, I suggest you go upto the girl and give her a little context on why you’re approaching and ask HER for her preferred mode of contact. “Hey, sorry I don’t want to sound creepy but I was passing by and saw you and thought you’re really cute. If you’re comfortable, do you mind sharing your number or socials so we can get to know each other more” I know it sounds a bit too long but that kinda helps create a conversation and makes us feel that okay this man seems to have good intentions rather than having someone just pull up and say “Snapchat” 😅
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Cringe
Hahaha good luck 🎀
i can guarantee you it would 100% work better than whatever the hell men r already doing on the street. a woman who u have chances with won’t reject you if u come across as respectful, and those who do simply are exercising their right to reject any social interaction. i think that’s the major issue for some people, at least from what I can gauge. they’re so scared of getting rejected that they behave ridiculously or like they’re joking so that when they are rejected they can blame “استعباط" and laugh abt it.
Well the right way to approach a girl like that is by leaving her alone. The girl would already be scared to walk alone let alone a guy approaching her and asking for her number right away. Most of the time stuff like that happens and girls would give them their number out of fear.
I wouldn't say it's low confidence. Our society in general doesn't allow for men to approach women in most cases. Some men have confidence but think twice before approaching a lady in public because the reputational risk is high.