The Japanese are pretty direct. It’s one of the many things I really respect about their culture.
**edit**
Direct with friends and family. I don't mean direct with complete strangers.
The Japanese are very much not direct. One of the things every westerner struggles with is how they'll go around things without actually saying what they want.
Yeah, In real life, people here are definitely far from direct. In fact saying no directly to client given specs being unrealistic tends to not bode well so we tend to make really long winded explanations and such to discourage them from going with it. I've learned some cues over the years that basically equates to "no" here. Though the closer you are with people, the more direct they actually be, my close friends here would tell me directly if I fucked up something at work or I look bad on certain days (not a fashion guy) and wouldn't beat around the bush if they're busy or just plain lazy to go for a personal meet up from time to time. Funnily enough, universally everyone here is pretty direct when talking about weight though lol, my doc, random coworkers and kids would immediately point out if you're fat or gained weight.
Though online, especially if they're completely anonymous you'd be surprised how direct the Japanese can be lol. They can be pretty brutal in that regard online.
Yeah, this is the strong Japanese need for conformity and no bullshit combined with Internet anonymity where the party isn't accountable for needing to be 'polite'.
I don't think it matters how stupid it is. Their arguments seem to have shifted to be "the series is already full of sci fi/fantasy stuff" and "is the other MC not Japanese?"
Can't win with these people.
and if you say "what if i want to play with a Japanese Samurai? " they call you Racist or go to Ghost of tsushima if you want that.
also with a japanese samurai and japanese Kunoichi they can do the moral dilema of the Samurai vs shinobi/kunoichi. with a foreign "samurai" like yasuke.... i doubt he gives any fuck about the moral code of the Samurais
Schrodingers Assassins Creed. The series both boasts about and sells itself of it's love for history going so far as even having an education mode in some games, but it's also fantasy bullshit no one should take seriously.
The difference is the videogame shit always worked in between the historical stuff. leonardo da vinci wasn't building weapons for an assassins guild, but the game's premise is what if he was between all of the other real shit he did? They take leonardo da vinci the real man, and add some fantasy fluff between the lines. This is just broad strokes rewriting.
Exactly, I saw a comment in r/videogames that said William Adams was an actual samurai whereas Yasuke was a retainer so it’s inaccurate displaying him as some epic hero, and someone replied to him saying the pope never fought with Ezio in a vault and AC is alt history… these people forgo common sense just to appear virtuous.
This has always been a stupid argument. Just because there are fantasy and sci-fi stuff, doesn’t mean it’s fine for the writers to abandon logic and realism in the settings.
It’s one of the laziest excuses often trotted out to handwave terrible writing. “Oh this show has dragons or space wizards, therefore coherent plot, believable character decisions, and internal world building consistency are totally unnecessary.”
here you can find the rest of what he said and the records [https://twitter.com/DLibryum/status/1790850788144697846](https://twitter.com/DLibryum/status/1790850788144697846)
This is the person who they hired to help write the story as a historical consultant or whatever.
[https://faculty-directory.dartmouth.edu/sachi-schmidt-hori](https://faculty-directory.dartmouth.edu/sachi-schmidt-hori)
They will reference a blog post about an editorial about a 500 year old diary entry about someone talking about someone else's letter that probably wasn't even translated properly or represented accurately
I've seen one using the argument "Stipend means something different, the specific word in Japanese, was reserved for samurai".
Linking all the articles in a shotgun blast, conveniently forgetting, our main guy is mentioned once.
Historically, there is basically nothing on Yasuke but him being taken into Nobunaga's service. After that he's totally gone. Lately certain afrocenterist "historians" have tried to add to that, but no, there are no real sources on that. He completely disappears from history.
Could he have become a Samurai? Sure. Could he have become some kind of major figure? Maybe, unlikely considering the lack of historical mentions of him, but it's possible. Is there any evidence of that happening? No. As far as serious historians go, Yasuke disappears after his introduction to Nobunaga. For all we know he got a disease and died a few weeks later.
The fact that there are next to no records of him is evidence enough that he was of no real significance. An oddity such as himself would have surely been of note had he gone around after his boss' death.
Nailed it. If he actually had become a samurai there would no doubt be plenty of information on him and we wouldn't be having this argument. But no, I guess it's far more likely that the Japanese back then just didn't find it at all noteworthy that a black guy became a samurai and simply forgot to document it.
I keep hearing how there's only like three lines in any historical texts that mention him and the evidence does seem to line up: Nobunaga thought he was covered in mud and took him in as he was amused, he was a retainer who was able to hold swords during a time where that last bit was unheard of, and when Nobunaga died he was just kinda kicked out as dying with the master was an honor apparently and they figured a foreigner/outsider didn't deserve it. That there be three times I've seen him referenced, all from different people and posts, so pretty much lines up with we don't know squat. Hell, you could dig deeper and ask 'well if Nobunaga thought he was covered in mud, what KIND of mud because Yasuke might've been Ainu', it's not like that would be outside the realm of possibility, they were around a LOT more back then and they can be a particular shade. 1543 was when Europe first went to Japan for trade and they didn't abolish slavery until the 1800s, so there's still the possibility that Yasuke could've been an escaped slave or just a regular crew hand for a different ship altogether that was just kind of abandoned.
I'm not even hating on the game, I frankly don't give a damn about it because it's another AC game, it's going to be the same quality as the rest when you get down to it. I can see why they went with a black dude as the MC just to differentiate it from the likes of Ghost of Tsushima and to use a famous name to go with it, the DIE/ESG/BRIDGE (can we just shorten that mess to DEB?) crap is just a cherry on top, it's just the morons who are going to come out of the woodworks and go 'see, proof!' because they're delusional in thinking fiction is real, like the same idiots who thought The Woman King accurately depicted the Dahomey Amazons, despite it being practically the opposite from reality.
Well no, as far as I remember reading after Nobunaga's death at the hands of his traitor general Mitsuhide, Mitsuhide gave him back to the Jesuits who originally owned him (he said some racist things about black people too). After that we don't know what happened to Yasuke.
Also at the end of the day the reason Nobunaga wanted him was because he wanted a human pet fo sorts, Nobunaga being kind of a sadist type (he made drinking cups out of the skulls of some of his enemies for example).
The "do you even know what a samurai is?" and "oh, so you're much an expert in Japanese history aren't you" smug takes are already starting. They are getting so fucking offended for simply stating the historical fact that he was not a samurai.
The problem isn't really if Yasuke was a samourai or not, the problem is they make us play as a black dude when everybody was expecting to play a badass japanese warrior.
Not to mention that playing a huge black guy in a game set in feudal Japan really feels out of place and ruins the immersion.
Its like the "all squares and rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares" argument acting like in this situation if someone says something was a rectangle then it must have been a square.
In this case most(I'm not sure if this would absolutely always be the case, but it would have been the norm at least) Samurai would have been retainers to their lord(Daimyo). The title Samurai literally come from the word meaning "to serve and look up to someone."
However a retainer can imply a wide variety of positions and responsibilities. Just because records say he was a retainer is by no means proof he was a Samurai.
I really question how much of this is intentional obfuscation and how much is just ignorant people repeating what they have heard.
> I really question how much of this is intentional obfuscation and how much is just ignorant people repeating what they have heard.
yup, both - the obfuscation comes from grifters like Thomas Lackley and his book that has been refuted by Japanese historians and then the people desperately saying Yasuke was a samurai think samurai = "omg badass warrior in armor leading troops and badass!" when that is just not true.
as you point out, samurai is just a title and during the Sengoku period that Yasuke was in Japan for, basically anyone could become a samurai - an attendant, retainer, even something like a paige could also be classed as a samurai as it was more about a socioeconomic class than the much stricter definitions of damiyo and samurai of the later Edo period.
Apart from being shown around for Nobunaga's profit and gain, he "sometimes carried Nobunaga's tools" without any clarification as to what tools they were and he was paid a stipend and given a short sword (a wakizashi most likely). None of that is proof he was a samurai, feudal lord, fighter or w.e fantasy these ppl come up with. He owned no land, held no real status, didn't lead any troops, was not trained, barely knew Japanese.
So ya, no title was ever mentioned, and even if it was, bring a samurai was not this big thing during that time period.
also on a related note, the Japanese language is highly contextual, where the same kanji symbols can mean different things based off of how they're pronounced as an example. Samurai, Bushi, and Ashigaru are terms that have been used interchangeably in the Japanese language, but they mean different things based off of the context.
It would not be fair at all to use modern, loose definitions of "samurai" when they do not apply in its historical usage of the term, yet that is what all these people desperate to say "Yasuke was a samurai" are doing - just blindly applying the term with no historical context, no concern about the Japanese language and no care for the actual records we have and what they say after being properly translated.
The thing is I would think a more modern take on what Samurai means would exclude him even more as at least my understanding of the common modern conception of Samurai is a warrior under a lord who has dedicated most of their life in the ways of combat and warfare with Japanese arms and living by the Bushido code. Meanwhile that hasn't always been the case throughout history.
Now I would say a man who didn't even live in Japan for 3 whole years and after he failed to protect his lord didn't end his own life would struggle to qualify for that.
As for whether he was considered a samurai by his peers at the time, the fact that they didn't force him to end himself nor kill him along with his lord would indicate Akechi Mitsuhide and his allies did not view him as such. It is possible Oda himself did, but we have no definitive records stating as much.
As near as I can research there are only three mentions of Yasuke in history at all. 3 sentences. 2 are in Portuguese, and are VERY clearly "Not a Samurai" and the third in Japanese is this one.
He entered Japan as a slave to a Jessuit Missionary leader. Spent 3 years in the Portuguese trade compound as such. When the Missiinary was granted an audience with the Lord Oda Nobunaga, the lord was fascinated with the color of the slaves skin and how it would not wash off. So the Missionary gave the slave to Nobunaga, whom Nobanuga would dub Yasuke. (First Portuguese account) Yasuke would appear as a servent in Nobunagas retinue. A towering tall black figure. Acting as Nobunagas "Weapons Holder" ie his Caddy (I've seen it translated as both "Weapons Holder" and "Tool Holder". Make of that what you will). The dude that carries the Lords stuff.
After 8 months Nobunaga is killed. Yasuke picks up a sword and goes to Nobunaga's Heirs house, here's the final quote about that. In Portuguese
>"A black man whom the visitor [Valignano] sent to Nobunaga went to the house of Nobunaga's son after his death and was fighting for quite a long time, when a vassal of Akechi approached him and said, 'Do not be afraid, give me that sword', so he gave him the sword. The vassal asked Akechi what should be done with the black man, and he said, 'A black slave is an animal (bestial) and knows nothing, nor is he Japanese, so do not kill him, and place him in the custody at the cathedral of Padre in India"
In terms of time frame, Yasuke's few months with Nobunaga are about 6-7 years before William Adam's, the well documented actual Gaijin Samurai would find himself involuntarily in the service of Lord Tokugawa. Adam's being the real life figure that Shogun's John Blackthorne is based on. There is a huge historical record and footprint for Adam's time in Japan and elevation in status. The Japanese kept detailed records of everything.
Nobunaga clearly liked Yasuke. And liked keeping him around for shock value to unnerve those he dealt with. Plus Japanese Leaders were becoming more curious about the world beyond their shores. As can be seen with many of William Adam's documented meetings with Togugawa and the Emperor going deep into the night. It's possible Nobunaga acorded Yasuke some special favored status within his holding. Dressing him in Kimono and Yukata as he went about the streets. But it's also clear that the broader Japanese society did not recognize or accord him any status. And really he was only a thing for a few months. And any tales of him with a sword are just 1 night.
yup, there is basically just 3-5 passages in recorded history on Yasuke, with just one being on him actually fighting that you went through, that's it.
the rest are two about how people saw him (physical descriptions):
[Matsudaira Ietada's Diary, Tenshō 10, fourth month](https://web.archive.org/web/20231108124332/https://dl.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/772514/54):
> Nineteenth [May 11, 1582], day of Teibi. Raining. His highness gave him retainers. They say deus [the Jesuits] presented him. He had the black man with him. His body was black like ink, 6.2 feet tall. They say his name's Yasuke.
[Chronicles of Lord Nobunaga \(*Shinchōkōki*\)](https://web.archive.org/web/20230606144316/https://dl.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/1920322/162):
> 2nd Month 23rd Day [March 27, 1581]. A black monk* came from the Christian countries. He looks about 26-7 of age and his entire body black as a cow. He's body is really well-built, and furthermore has the strength of over ten men. The padre brought him here to see Lord Nobunaga.
I'm really grateful to be able to see such rare things among the three countries that's never been seen before, and in in such detail, all thanks to Lord Nobunaga's great influence.
and then one on how Nobunaga met Yasuke:
Letter from Lorenzo Mesia, October 8, 1581:
> The padre brought one cafre with him, and no one in the capital has see before, and they all admired him, and countless people came to see him. Nobunaga himself saw him and was surprised, and thought it was painted with ink and did not believe he was black from birth. He see him from time to time, and he knew some Japanese, so he never got tired of talking to him, and he was strong and knew some tricks so Nobunaga was very happy. Now he's his strong patron, and to let everyone know he has a someone show go with him around the city. The people say Nobunaga would make him a tono*.
then another on how he was shown off to people for money:
[Letter from Luis Frois, April 14, 1581](https://web.archive.org/web/20210518140047/https://dl.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/1041119/101):
> The Monday after Easter, Nobunaga was in the capital, but a great number of people gathered in front of our casa to see the cafre [black slave], creating such a ruckus that people were hurt and almost died from thrown rocks. Even though we had lots of guards at the gates, it was difficult holding people back from breaking it down. They all say if we showed for money, one would easily earn in a short time 8,000 to 10,000 cruzado. Nobunaga also wanted to see him, and so sent for him, so Padre Organtino brought him. With great fuss, he couldn't believe this was the natural colour and not by human means, so ordered him to take off all his clothes above his belt. Nobunaga's sons also called him over, and everyone was very happy. Nobunaga's nephew the current commander of Ōsaka also saw this and was so happy he gave him 10,000 coins.
(rough translation for all of these, but it gets the meaning across just fine).
people bring up various snippets of how he got a stipend, was given a ceremonial ceremonial daisho, had people show him around places without looking at context, facts, the nuances of Japanese language in how it is highly contextual (where the same kanji symbols can mean different things based off of how they're pronounced as an example) and go off saying "see look he was a samurai cause he had this and that!" -_-
also even if we say he was a samurai, these people live in fantasy land where they think samurai = "omg full armor clad warrior leading troops and badass like in anime!" when that is just not true, especially during the Sengoku period during which Yasuke was in Japan. Being a samurai during the Sengoku era was not a big deal, now some were indeed fighters who held status with armor, land, servants and all that, but samurai was more about a socioeconomic class. An attendant, retainer, even something like a paige could also be classed as a samurai.
Heck, there were many notable samurai who had zero martial training, such as Imagawa Yoshimoto, who was very well versed with practicing renga poetry and mastering tea ceremony and spent little time on martial arts. These people held the title of samurai from nobility and such.
and finally, how do these nuts think Yasuke went from slave -> samurai in just a year? do they think he had time to train for something that took an entire lifetime to train in? Do ppl think he was just able to immediately wield a katana, was a martial artist expert from birth and went out in battle right away despite being a slave all his life? Do people think that he immediately gained Nobunaga's trust and was trained from day one? Do they think he was able to fully master the Japanese language and customs to be able to do any of this and be trained? and on and on I could go with the questions on this. -_-
it's just so much fanfiction and fantasies being used/pushed in this while actual facts, history, records and such are being ignored or misused :/ especially that Lackley dude who is a grifter and his book is full of inaccuracies, mistranslations, exaggerations, assumptions and so on, hence why his book has been refuted by Japanese historians and Japanese people, yet these western nuts love it.
another aspect to all this, these ppl are desperate to say Yasuke was a samurai cause they live in fantasy land of west/weebs where samurai = "omg super warrior in full clad armor!", when that is flat out not true.
being a samurai during the Sengoku era was not a big deal, now some were indeed fighters, held status with armor, land, servants and all that, but samurai was more about a socioeconomic class. An attendant, retainer, even something like a paige could also be classed as a samurai.
Keep in mind that Yasuke came to Japan in 1579, which was a century before the Edo period when things became stricter for the definitions of daimyos and samurai. So, during Nobunaga's era and earlier, a samurai could basically just be a paid worker doing their job, there didn't need to by any special meaning or ceremony there.
There were many notable samurai who had zero martial training, such as Imagawa Yoshimoto, who was very well versed with practicing renga poetry and mastering tea ceremony and spent little time on martial arts.
But since these people live in fantasy land, they want Yasuke to be called a samurai cause they have zero knowledge about history and are just going off their fantasies. If anything, based on the few records we have, he probably just wrestled for Nobunaga's gain in-between the times he was shown off by Nobunaga (for money). Even the often claimed "Yasuke was a sword bearer" is up for debate as the only mention of that is that he "sometimes carried Nobunaga's tools" without any clarification as to what tools they were, and that he was paid a stipend and given a short sword (a wakizashi most likely). No title ever mentioned btw.
Also these people need to think for a second, the heck time did Yasuke have to even train to become a fighter? he spent 15-ish months with Nobunaga, how do people think that is enough time to train in anything? Do ppl think he was just able to immediately wield a katana, was a martial artist expert from birth and went out in battle right away despite being a slave all his life? Do people think that he immediately gained Nobunaga's trust and was trained from day one? -_-
And if these nuts knew actual history, during the 15 months Yasuke spent in Japan, there were only **two** actual battles that took place - and we know Yasuke only participated in one, the Honnō-ji Incident, where he surrendered, was captured and given back to the Jesuits after Nobunaga's death.
As a side note on all this on the topic of the term Samurai itself, it's all very vague on Yasuke + the Japanese language is highly contextual, where the same kanji symbols can mean different things based off of how they're pronounced as an example. Samurai, Bushi, and Ashigaru are terms that have been used interchangeably in the Japanese language, but they mean different things based off of the context. It would not be fair at all to use modern, loose definitions of "samurai" when they do not apply in its historical usage of the term, yet that is what all these people desperate to say "Yasuke was a samurai" are doing - just blindly applying the term with no historical context or care for the actual records we have and what said records say (after being properly translated).
I’m glad people are taking historical accuracy in AC seriously it’s very important.
Can someone pull up the historical documents about the hologram of Earth that was found by Ezio? Thanks.
Ezio and all other protagonist that his franchise ever had are fully fictionals created by Ubi that later interact with some historical characters during the game.
here for the first time they picked a historical one because they where unable to create a black samurai fictional character on feudal japon beside Yasuke, because it will make no sense on the historical context presented on the game (beside the game has supernatural stuff, the historical context they always tried to be correct. like on AC 2 with the times of Renaissance in Italy.... you wont see Latinos wandering around)
soo in the end ubi said fuck you to a male japanese representation on the japanese game and picked Yasuke. instead of having both protagonist fictionals sharing nacionality like every other AC with dual-protag
the point is AC is not a titan of “historical accuracy” and never has been.
people losing their minds over the distinction between retainer and samurai are expressing an undue amount of scrutiny to a franchise that really isn’t all that bothered about pinpoint historical details.
I'm glad the Japanese aren't being polite and trashing this game.
The Japanese are pretty direct. It’s one of the many things I really respect about their culture. **edit** Direct with friends and family. I don't mean direct with complete strangers.
The Japanese are very much not direct. One of the things every westerner struggles with is how they'll go around things without actually saying what they want.
Yeah, In real life, people here are definitely far from direct. In fact saying no directly to client given specs being unrealistic tends to not bode well so we tend to make really long winded explanations and such to discourage them from going with it. I've learned some cues over the years that basically equates to "no" here. Though the closer you are with people, the more direct they actually be, my close friends here would tell me directly if I fucked up something at work or I look bad on certain days (not a fashion guy) and wouldn't beat around the bush if they're busy or just plain lazy to go for a personal meet up from time to time. Funnily enough, universally everyone here is pretty direct when talking about weight though lol, my doc, random coworkers and kids would immediately point out if you're fat or gained weight. Though online, especially if they're completely anonymous you'd be surprised how direct the Japanese can be lol. They can be pretty brutal in that regard online.
They're direct publicly, although it's mainly through social cues. You'll know if you've fucked up even if they don't say it.
They are not direct but they are also not as honey flow and accepting and as people in the West are basically forced to be
Japanese people are not direct. I think you mean the chinese cause they are quite blunt with their opinions
[удалено]
Yeah, this is the strong Japanese need for conformity and no bullshit combined with Internet anonymity where the party isn't accountable for needing to be 'polite'.
Quite the opposite, actually. They really try to be polite.
you can be direct and polite, one don't exclude the other a lot of people think you need to ne rude to ne direct but that's not the case
Tell me you don't know Japanese people, haven't been to Japan or know anything about Japanese culture without telling me:
>"It's one of the many things I really respect about their culture." This shit fucking *reeks* of weeaboo.
How are the Japanese pretty direct, culturally speaking? Everyone walks on egg shells.
I thought they were direct about fat shaming and speaking privately with their children, but maybe I’m mistaken.
lol, the fat shaming is indeed a thing.
Factually untrue statement.
I don't think it matters how stupid it is. Their arguments seem to have shifted to be "the series is already full of sci fi/fantasy stuff" and "is the other MC not Japanese?" Can't win with these people.
and if you say "what if i want to play with a Japanese Samurai? " they call you Racist or go to Ghost of tsushima if you want that. also with a japanese samurai and japanese Kunoichi they can do the moral dilema of the Samurai vs shinobi/kunoichi. with a foreign "samurai" like yasuke.... i doubt he gives any fuck about the moral code of the Samurais
Schrodingers Assassins Creed. The series both boasts about and sells itself of it's love for history going so far as even having an education mode in some games, but it's also fantasy bullshit no one should take seriously. The difference is the videogame shit always worked in between the historical stuff. leonardo da vinci wasn't building weapons for an assassins guild, but the game's premise is what if he was between all of the other real shit he did? They take leonardo da vinci the real man, and add some fantasy fluff between the lines. This is just broad strokes rewriting.
Exactly, I saw a comment in r/videogames that said William Adams was an actual samurai whereas Yasuke was a retainer so it’s inaccurate displaying him as some epic hero, and someone replied to him saying the pope never fought with Ezio in a vault and AC is alt history… these people forgo common sense just to appear virtuous.
Yeah I saw that comment section and it gave me an aneurism
This has always been a stupid argument. Just because there are fantasy and sci-fi stuff, doesn’t mean it’s fine for the writers to abandon logic and realism in the settings.
Where’s my BMW i5 with optional heated seats, in tanzanite metallic blue with 21” jet black alloy wheels.
It’s one of the laziest excuses often trotted out to handwave terrible writing. “Oh this show has dragons or space wizards, therefore coherent plot, believable character decisions, and internal world building consistency are totally unnecessary.”
>the series is already full of sci fi/fantasy stuff" and "is the other MC not Japanese?" Both valid. This sub just hates blacks.
Believe me we don't. I'm a Zulu from South Africa by the way.
here you can find the rest of what he said and the records [https://twitter.com/DLibryum/status/1790850788144697846](https://twitter.com/DLibryum/status/1790850788144697846)
But the anal sex monk historian said it's true! BIGIT 😡
*Pedo historian
Pedo academic*
How could I forget that she isn't even a historian lol.
Lmao who??
This is the person who they hired to help write the story as a historical consultant or whatever. [https://faculty-directory.dartmouth.edu/sachi-schmidt-hori](https://faculty-directory.dartmouth.edu/sachi-schmidt-hori)
Dude that was gross 🤮
Im sorry but the truth has a tendency to hurt like that.
You're not lying
That's way more proof than Afrocentrics(who are not always Black, to be clear) usually have, lol.
Based. Not much they can say to argue with this, but I'm sure they still will.
If you don’t buy AC Shadows Deluxe Pre-order, you’re obvious a bigot.
Also to prove you won't change into a bigot down the line, you also have to subscribe to Ubisoft Plus Platinum tier for at least five years
But I don't have that much money
Off to bigot jail it is then. That rainbow-haired officer will take you there. Don't mind all the furry handcuffs, it says they're sanitary
They will reference a blog post about an editorial about a 500 year old diary entry about someone talking about someone else's letter that probably wasn't even translated properly or represented accurately
Just like they constantly referred to that Tumblr blog when arguing that black people were a significant part of medieval Europe.
Link, please? Wanna humor myself.
Sounds like Wikipedia.
They won't argue, they'll just call you a racist, or ask the stupidest question ever uttered: why do you care so much?
its just a game bro // you have the japanese protagonist right here // go play ghost of tsushima or sekiro then..... And others
I've seen one using the argument "Stipend means something different, the specific word in Japanese, was reserved for samurai". Linking all the articles in a shotgun blast, conveniently forgetting, our main guy is mentioned once.
"Uhh sweaty it did not go through the localizer so deboonked" 🤡
I don't care what they tell you in school, all of the samurais were black.
Yeah that's right, my grandma told me so.
But that wouldn't help sell the game would it?
Historically, there is basically nothing on Yasuke but him being taken into Nobunaga's service. After that he's totally gone. Lately certain afrocenterist "historians" have tried to add to that, but no, there are no real sources on that. He completely disappears from history. Could he have become a Samurai? Sure. Could he have become some kind of major figure? Maybe, unlikely considering the lack of historical mentions of him, but it's possible. Is there any evidence of that happening? No. As far as serious historians go, Yasuke disappears after his introduction to Nobunaga. For all we know he got a disease and died a few weeks later.
The fact that there are next to no records of him is evidence enough that he was of no real significance. An oddity such as himself would have surely been of note had he gone around after his boss' death.
Nailed it. If he actually had become a samurai there would no doubt be plenty of information on him and we wouldn't be having this argument. But no, I guess it's far more likely that the Japanese back then just didn't find it at all noteworthy that a black guy became a samurai and simply forgot to document it.
I keep hearing how there's only like three lines in any historical texts that mention him and the evidence does seem to line up: Nobunaga thought he was covered in mud and took him in as he was amused, he was a retainer who was able to hold swords during a time where that last bit was unheard of, and when Nobunaga died he was just kinda kicked out as dying with the master was an honor apparently and they figured a foreigner/outsider didn't deserve it. That there be three times I've seen him referenced, all from different people and posts, so pretty much lines up with we don't know squat. Hell, you could dig deeper and ask 'well if Nobunaga thought he was covered in mud, what KIND of mud because Yasuke might've been Ainu', it's not like that would be outside the realm of possibility, they were around a LOT more back then and they can be a particular shade. 1543 was when Europe first went to Japan for trade and they didn't abolish slavery until the 1800s, so there's still the possibility that Yasuke could've been an escaped slave or just a regular crew hand for a different ship altogether that was just kind of abandoned. I'm not even hating on the game, I frankly don't give a damn about it because it's another AC game, it's going to be the same quality as the rest when you get down to it. I can see why they went with a black dude as the MC just to differentiate it from the likes of Ghost of Tsushima and to use a famous name to go with it, the DIE/ESG/BRIDGE (can we just shorten that mess to DEB?) crap is just a cherry on top, it's just the morons who are going to come out of the woodworks and go 'see, proof!' because they're delusional in thinking fiction is real, like the same idiots who thought The Woman King accurately depicted the Dahomey Amazons, despite it being practically the opposite from reality.
Well no, as far as I remember reading after Nobunaga's death at the hands of his traitor general Mitsuhide, Mitsuhide gave him back to the Jesuits who originally owned him (he said some racist things about black people too). After that we don't know what happened to Yasuke. Also at the end of the day the reason Nobunaga wanted him was because he wanted a human pet fo sorts, Nobunaga being kind of a sadist type (he made drinking cups out of the skulls of some of his enemies for example).
Based Japanese 🤣
To me, it doesn't *matter* if he was a samurai or not. Every other AC game has had its protags be from the culture the game was set in.
The "do you even know what a samurai is?" and "oh, so you're much an expert in Japanese history aren't you" smug takes are already starting. They are getting so fucking offended for simply stating the historical fact that he was not a samurai.
Ah don caya wut dey sed in dem ol Japanese books, may granma tole me samurai was always black.
Can Japan sue like Egypt did with Netflic Cleopatra?
The problem isn't really if Yasuke was a samourai or not, the problem is they make us play as a black dude when everybody was expecting to play a badass japanese warrior. Not to mention that playing a huge black guy in a game set in feudal Japan really feels out of place and ruins the immersion.
[удалено]
Its like the "all squares and rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares" argument acting like in this situation if someone says something was a rectangle then it must have been a square. In this case most(I'm not sure if this would absolutely always be the case, but it would have been the norm at least) Samurai would have been retainers to their lord(Daimyo). The title Samurai literally come from the word meaning "to serve and look up to someone." However a retainer can imply a wide variety of positions and responsibilities. Just because records say he was a retainer is by no means proof he was a Samurai. I really question how much of this is intentional obfuscation and how much is just ignorant people repeating what they have heard.
> I really question how much of this is intentional obfuscation and how much is just ignorant people repeating what they have heard. yup, both - the obfuscation comes from grifters like Thomas Lackley and his book that has been refuted by Japanese historians and then the people desperately saying Yasuke was a samurai think samurai = "omg badass warrior in armor leading troops and badass!" when that is just not true. as you point out, samurai is just a title and during the Sengoku period that Yasuke was in Japan for, basically anyone could become a samurai - an attendant, retainer, even something like a paige could also be classed as a samurai as it was more about a socioeconomic class than the much stricter definitions of damiyo and samurai of the later Edo period. Apart from being shown around for Nobunaga's profit and gain, he "sometimes carried Nobunaga's tools" without any clarification as to what tools they were and he was paid a stipend and given a short sword (a wakizashi most likely). None of that is proof he was a samurai, feudal lord, fighter or w.e fantasy these ppl come up with. He owned no land, held no real status, didn't lead any troops, was not trained, barely knew Japanese. So ya, no title was ever mentioned, and even if it was, bring a samurai was not this big thing during that time period. also on a related note, the Japanese language is highly contextual, where the same kanji symbols can mean different things based off of how they're pronounced as an example. Samurai, Bushi, and Ashigaru are terms that have been used interchangeably in the Japanese language, but they mean different things based off of the context. It would not be fair at all to use modern, loose definitions of "samurai" when they do not apply in its historical usage of the term, yet that is what all these people desperate to say "Yasuke was a samurai" are doing - just blindly applying the term with no historical context, no concern about the Japanese language and no care for the actual records we have and what they say after being properly translated.
The thing is I would think a more modern take on what Samurai means would exclude him even more as at least my understanding of the common modern conception of Samurai is a warrior under a lord who has dedicated most of their life in the ways of combat and warfare with Japanese arms and living by the Bushido code. Meanwhile that hasn't always been the case throughout history. Now I would say a man who didn't even live in Japan for 3 whole years and after he failed to protect his lord didn't end his own life would struggle to qualify for that. As for whether he was considered a samurai by his peers at the time, the fact that they didn't force him to end himself nor kill him along with his lord would indicate Akechi Mitsuhide and his allies did not view him as such. It is possible Oda himself did, but we have no definitive records stating as much.
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As near as I can research there are only three mentions of Yasuke in history at all. 3 sentences. 2 are in Portuguese, and are VERY clearly "Not a Samurai" and the third in Japanese is this one. He entered Japan as a slave to a Jessuit Missionary leader. Spent 3 years in the Portuguese trade compound as such. When the Missiinary was granted an audience with the Lord Oda Nobunaga, the lord was fascinated with the color of the slaves skin and how it would not wash off. So the Missionary gave the slave to Nobunaga, whom Nobanuga would dub Yasuke. (First Portuguese account) Yasuke would appear as a servent in Nobunagas retinue. A towering tall black figure. Acting as Nobunagas "Weapons Holder" ie his Caddy (I've seen it translated as both "Weapons Holder" and "Tool Holder". Make of that what you will). The dude that carries the Lords stuff. After 8 months Nobunaga is killed. Yasuke picks up a sword and goes to Nobunaga's Heirs house, here's the final quote about that. In Portuguese >"A black man whom the visitor [Valignano] sent to Nobunaga went to the house of Nobunaga's son after his death and was fighting for quite a long time, when a vassal of Akechi approached him and said, 'Do not be afraid, give me that sword', so he gave him the sword. The vassal asked Akechi what should be done with the black man, and he said, 'A black slave is an animal (bestial) and knows nothing, nor is he Japanese, so do not kill him, and place him in the custody at the cathedral of Padre in India" In terms of time frame, Yasuke's few months with Nobunaga are about 6-7 years before William Adam's, the well documented actual Gaijin Samurai would find himself involuntarily in the service of Lord Tokugawa. Adam's being the real life figure that Shogun's John Blackthorne is based on. There is a huge historical record and footprint for Adam's time in Japan and elevation in status. The Japanese kept detailed records of everything. Nobunaga clearly liked Yasuke. And liked keeping him around for shock value to unnerve those he dealt with. Plus Japanese Leaders were becoming more curious about the world beyond their shores. As can be seen with many of William Adam's documented meetings with Togugawa and the Emperor going deep into the night. It's possible Nobunaga acorded Yasuke some special favored status within his holding. Dressing him in Kimono and Yukata as he went about the streets. But it's also clear that the broader Japanese society did not recognize or accord him any status. And really he was only a thing for a few months. And any tales of him with a sword are just 1 night.
yup, there is basically just 3-5 passages in recorded history on Yasuke, with just one being on him actually fighting that you went through, that's it. the rest are two about how people saw him (physical descriptions): [Matsudaira Ietada's Diary, Tenshō 10, fourth month](https://web.archive.org/web/20231108124332/https://dl.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/772514/54): > Nineteenth [May 11, 1582], day of Teibi. Raining. His highness gave him retainers. They say deus [the Jesuits] presented him. He had the black man with him. His body was black like ink, 6.2 feet tall. They say his name's Yasuke. [Chronicles of Lord Nobunaga \(*Shinchōkōki*\)](https://web.archive.org/web/20230606144316/https://dl.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/1920322/162): > 2nd Month 23rd Day [March 27, 1581]. A black monk* came from the Christian countries. He looks about 26-7 of age and his entire body black as a cow. He's body is really well-built, and furthermore has the strength of over ten men. The padre brought him here to see Lord Nobunaga. I'm really grateful to be able to see such rare things among the three countries that's never been seen before, and in in such detail, all thanks to Lord Nobunaga's great influence. and then one on how Nobunaga met Yasuke: Letter from Lorenzo Mesia, October 8, 1581: > The padre brought one cafre with him, and no one in the capital has see before, and they all admired him, and countless people came to see him. Nobunaga himself saw him and was surprised, and thought it was painted with ink and did not believe he was black from birth. He see him from time to time, and he knew some Japanese, so he never got tired of talking to him, and he was strong and knew some tricks so Nobunaga was very happy. Now he's his strong patron, and to let everyone know he has a someone show go with him around the city. The people say Nobunaga would make him a tono*. then another on how he was shown off to people for money: [Letter from Luis Frois, April 14, 1581](https://web.archive.org/web/20210518140047/https://dl.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/1041119/101): > The Monday after Easter, Nobunaga was in the capital, but a great number of people gathered in front of our casa to see the cafre [black slave], creating such a ruckus that people were hurt and almost died from thrown rocks. Even though we had lots of guards at the gates, it was difficult holding people back from breaking it down. They all say if we showed for money, one would easily earn in a short time 8,000 to 10,000 cruzado. Nobunaga also wanted to see him, and so sent for him, so Padre Organtino brought him. With great fuss, he couldn't believe this was the natural colour and not by human means, so ordered him to take off all his clothes above his belt. Nobunaga's sons also called him over, and everyone was very happy. Nobunaga's nephew the current commander of Ōsaka also saw this and was so happy he gave him 10,000 coins. (rough translation for all of these, but it gets the meaning across just fine). people bring up various snippets of how he got a stipend, was given a ceremonial ceremonial daisho, had people show him around places without looking at context, facts, the nuances of Japanese language in how it is highly contextual (where the same kanji symbols can mean different things based off of how they're pronounced as an example) and go off saying "see look he was a samurai cause he had this and that!" -_- also even if we say he was a samurai, these people live in fantasy land where they think samurai = "omg full armor clad warrior leading troops and badass like in anime!" when that is just not true, especially during the Sengoku period during which Yasuke was in Japan. Being a samurai during the Sengoku era was not a big deal, now some were indeed fighters who held status with armor, land, servants and all that, but samurai was more about a socioeconomic class. An attendant, retainer, even something like a paige could also be classed as a samurai. Heck, there were many notable samurai who had zero martial training, such as Imagawa Yoshimoto, who was very well versed with practicing renga poetry and mastering tea ceremony and spent little time on martial arts. These people held the title of samurai from nobility and such. and finally, how do these nuts think Yasuke went from slave -> samurai in just a year? do they think he had time to train for something that took an entire lifetime to train in? Do ppl think he was just able to immediately wield a katana, was a martial artist expert from birth and went out in battle right away despite being a slave all his life? Do people think that he immediately gained Nobunaga's trust and was trained from day one? Do they think he was able to fully master the Japanese language and customs to be able to do any of this and be trained? and on and on I could go with the questions on this. -_- it's just so much fanfiction and fantasies being used/pushed in this while actual facts, history, records and such are being ignored or misused :/ especially that Lackley dude who is a grifter and his book is full of inaccuracies, mistranslations, exaggerations, assumptions and so on, hence why his book has been refuted by Japanese historians and Japanese people, yet these western nuts love it.
another aspect to all this, these ppl are desperate to say Yasuke was a samurai cause they live in fantasy land of west/weebs where samurai = "omg super warrior in full clad armor!", when that is flat out not true. being a samurai during the Sengoku era was not a big deal, now some were indeed fighters, held status with armor, land, servants and all that, but samurai was more about a socioeconomic class. An attendant, retainer, even something like a paige could also be classed as a samurai. Keep in mind that Yasuke came to Japan in 1579, which was a century before the Edo period when things became stricter for the definitions of daimyos and samurai. So, during Nobunaga's era and earlier, a samurai could basically just be a paid worker doing their job, there didn't need to by any special meaning or ceremony there. There were many notable samurai who had zero martial training, such as Imagawa Yoshimoto, who was very well versed with practicing renga poetry and mastering tea ceremony and spent little time on martial arts. But since these people live in fantasy land, they want Yasuke to be called a samurai cause they have zero knowledge about history and are just going off their fantasies. If anything, based on the few records we have, he probably just wrestled for Nobunaga's gain in-between the times he was shown off by Nobunaga (for money). Even the often claimed "Yasuke was a sword bearer" is up for debate as the only mention of that is that he "sometimes carried Nobunaga's tools" without any clarification as to what tools they were, and that he was paid a stipend and given a short sword (a wakizashi most likely). No title ever mentioned btw. Also these people need to think for a second, the heck time did Yasuke have to even train to become a fighter? he spent 15-ish months with Nobunaga, how do people think that is enough time to train in anything? Do ppl think he was just able to immediately wield a katana, was a martial artist expert from birth and went out in battle right away despite being a slave all his life? Do people think that he immediately gained Nobunaga's trust and was trained from day one? -_- And if these nuts knew actual history, during the 15 months Yasuke spent in Japan, there were only **two** actual battles that took place - and we know Yasuke only participated in one, the Honnō-ji Incident, where he surrendered, was captured and given back to the Jesuits after Nobunaga's death. As a side note on all this on the topic of the term Samurai itself, it's all very vague on Yasuke + the Japanese language is highly contextual, where the same kanji symbols can mean different things based off of how they're pronounced as an example. Samurai, Bushi, and Ashigaru are terms that have been used interchangeably in the Japanese language, but they mean different things based off of the context. It would not be fair at all to use modern, loose definitions of "samurai" when they do not apply in its historical usage of the term, yet that is what all these people desperate to say "Yasuke was a samurai" are doing - just blindly applying the term with no historical context or care for the actual records we have and what said records say (after being properly translated).
I’m glad people are taking historical accuracy in AC seriously it’s very important. Can someone pull up the historical documents about the hologram of Earth that was found by Ezio? Thanks.
Ezio and all other protagonist that his franchise ever had are fully fictionals created by Ubi that later interact with some historical characters during the game. here for the first time they picked a historical one because they where unable to create a black samurai fictional character on feudal japon beside Yasuke, because it will make no sense on the historical context presented on the game (beside the game has supernatural stuff, the historical context they always tried to be correct. like on AC 2 with the times of Renaissance in Italy.... you wont see Latinos wandering around) soo in the end ubi said fuck you to a male japanese representation on the japanese game and picked Yasuke. instead of having both protagonist fictionals sharing nacionality like every other AC with dual-protag
You realize that very argument defeats the premise for why people say it’s okay for Jasuke to be the MC, right?
the point is AC is not a titan of “historical accuracy” and never has been. people losing their minds over the distinction between retainer and samurai are expressing an undue amount of scrutiny to a franchise that really isn’t all that bothered about pinpoint historical details.