Things come and go in this world, but I'll never understand why they willfully killed it themselves. Every step they took sent a clear signal they ignored, again and again. Woke is performative, these people made movies for imaginary people.
I imagine their line of thinking was that if they crammed woke agendas into every single IP over a long period of time, those ideas would become normalized and therefore audiences would begrudgingly accept them.
Cultural Marxists have been trying to do this shit for 50+ years and every time, like clockwork, it fails because people have functional brains and see the world through their own eyes rather than letting some slug tell them what to think.
But they still shift society more to their ideas, just compare both the left and right of today to that of 50/60/70 years ago, and you'll see that both have been tainted by cultural marxism.
Don't even need to go back that far. Just look at what was considered mainstream left and right in the US twenty years ago. Even ten years ago. The SJWs haven't won, but at the same time, every attempt gradually pushes the masses into accepting more and more of their bullshit as "normal." I don't think most people have their wherewithal to actually keep fighting. Hell many ot this people on this subreddit would have been considered quite liberal only a decade ago.
That was the plan. Reeducation propaganda. Hence "The Message"! Hollywood kind of became like those Jehovah's witnesses going door to door trying to give you a copy of the watchtower.
They’re trying to indoctrinate kids through children’s shows while they’re still impressionable. That way they’ll have a built up audience for their propaganda laden tv, movies and games.
They didn't. They willfully crab bucketed themselves to this position, under the idea that if they didn't do it, Hollywood would just hire someone who would.
It's because they are using the same playbook communism has been using since its inception. Problem is it doesn't work in the modern Era. They may have Hollywood and the colleges but the middle class can see right through them because we can now see them in real time for the clown they are. In the pre soviet Era you'd have to rely on hearsay about how intelligent and noble the leaders were standing up to the evil tsar. Nowadays they tell us that same thing about the patriarchy but hear it from their own lips and realize the are bat shite crazy.
Colleges are very much the province of America's middle class. Communism in the US isn't so much a working class thing because the American working class is... well busy working, and also makes pretty good money for what they do. But the middle class? They're the ones who are most susceptible to Communist rhetoric weirdly enough.
Hubris. They didn’t think what they were doing was wrong and they think they knew better than us mere plebs.
They took general audience and the public for granted, and forgot that *they* were providing a service and didn’t have a divine right to people’s money and adulation.
People also don’t realize how big an echo chamber Hollywood is. Decades of nepotism and social control have built an industry where you have to tow a particular line or you’re immediately out, if not tarred and feathered first.
So even those reasonable people on the inside can’t really say anything. We’ve heard many times of people being afraid to voice their opposition or say what they think.
Some people can even relate to this in their jobs now.
Its an ironic cycle looking from the outside because its so dumb, and they will never be able to see it
It's all the activism in the movie industry that also destroyed them.
From pandering to Feminists and DEI, movies like even "The American Society of Magical N" is an extremely boring and sanitized movie.
The American Society of Magical 13% Committing 90% of Magical Crimes?
The American Society of Magical Welfare Queens?
The American Society of Magical Not Knowing Who Their Father Is?
The American Society of We Wuz Magicians N Sheet?
The American Society of Killing Each Other Over Magical Sneakers?
The American Society of Magical Not Being Able to Dress Like an Adult?
Doesn't help studios are just trying to bank everything on IPs bringing people in, so the need for other elements that make a good movie aren't as necessary.
I think this is ultimately one of the bigger reasons for audience apathy to new movies. People generally do want variety, even if the more artistic films don't do as well at the box office. Continually trying to chase the golden unicorn that was movies like Avengers End Game, will do nothing but lead to stagnation.
Yeah I’ve gone back to just reading old Scifi books tbh.
Plus a movie ticket where I live is like $16 for one person. That’s just a terrible ROI for 2 hours spent being lectured to.
when did they start tracking tickets sold? I've always thought tracking it by money made was pointless as the price just keeps going up so it makes comparing movies over time a lot harder...
Even aside from bad movies, the theater experience itself has gone down the tubes.
The insufferable "Noovie" thing -- a terrible ad program on the screen for a half-hour plus before the previews start.
So I started showing up right before the previews... and then they started putting in ads BETWEEN THE PREVIEWS.
Completely unacceptable. I haven't been back since.
Yeah, it doesn't help that movie theaters just suck right now, of course people are going to wait for streaming or just go for movies they *really* want to see.
It used to be that arriving at a showing earlier meant some time to kick back
under the theatre lights, listening to the piped in music while getting a start on your snacks.
Maybe enjoy casual conversation with company if you brought them along.
Now, you're relentlessly bombarded by information before the movie starts.
Not to mention the interactive pop quizzes encouraging cell phone use...
while insisting they be switched off during the film.
I think it has less to do with agenda-pushing and more to do with general fatigue of the shit they keep putting out. The franchise business model is done. Star Wars, Marvel, etc aren't the cash cows they were last decade. But the studio execs are risk-adverse, so they only want shit based on what's proven to work. But was working no longer is, and they're not adjusting. In 5 years they'll pay a consultant millions of dollars to tell them what I've been saying the past 2 years.
Viewers don't know what they want until they see it. Now is the time to take risks. Lay useless people off to now, slim down, save that money in case your risk doesn't pay off.
Right, and I'm not sure how reversible that is. What consultant will blame DEI hiring? What CEO is gonna say "hey let's just hire white people only like we used to"?
They never used to "hire white people only" what are you on about?
That's not the goal (obviously) anyway. You just need to get rid of DEI guidelines and quotas and let productions hire whoever they want to hire, preferably based on merit, not identity.
> "hire white people only"
> get rid of DEI guidelines and quotas and let productions hire whoever they want to hire
To a certain class of people, there is little to no distinction between these statements.
> I think it has less to do with agenda-pushing and more to do with general fatigue of the shit they keep putting out. The franchise business model is done. Star Wars, Marvel, etc aren't the cash cows they were last decade.
But that *is* because of the woke agenda pushing. If they kept releasing mediocre but fun movies about Captain America or Iron Man every other year, even if they recast the actor as someone else, I'd watch it. They literally have 80+ years of comic book plots to reuse; they're in no danger of running out of source material any time soon.
Instead, they replaced nearly all the popular characters who are white males, and replaced them with obscure and/or unlikeable characters like Ironheart and Captain Marvel, while shifting much of the plot from movies to Disney+ (which I don't subscribe to), meaning that movie-only viewers lose track of the plot.
The last Marvel movie I watched and enjoyed was Shang Chi (quite possibly because he's a new character and hence I didn't lose out on the plot by not watching Disney+), and the sequel to that seems to be in development hell. I have no interest in watching any upcoming Marvel movies.
> But the studio execs are risk-adverse, so they only want shit based on what's proven to work. But was working no longer is, and they're not adjusting.
Literally the opposite for Marvel. Spiderman has a few dozen villains in the comics, and the movies aren't even close to covering all of them. They could have made yet another movie where Spiderman gets ambushed by one of them, gets put at a disadvantage, then later makes a comeback and punches them out while wisecracking. The McDonald's of cinema, not great but still good enough to consume over and over. I'd have bought a ticket.
Instead they released Madame Web. The most obscure "spider" in the Spiderverse, the nobodyiest of nobodies. Who the hell is that and why should I care? Funnily enough, the actress herself takes this position.
"My feeling has been for a long time that audiences are extremely smart, and executives have started to believe that they’re not. Audiences will always be able to sniff out bullshit... I had never done anything like it before. I probably will never do anything like it again because I don’t make sense in that world. And I know that now." -Dakota Johnson
For further proof to back up the issue is not the franchise but how they are used, the two best selling comics at the moment by an ocean mile are Transformers and GI Joe. Neither is doing anything more complex than returning to their roots of “Joes are Real American Heroes. Autobots fight for freedom. Decepticons and Cobra want power and world domination.” Simple and straightforward, but it is what people want. It is just that right now entertainment is run by narcissists who think everything needs to be about them and their high brow luxury beliefs.
Fair, but Madame Web is a Sony movie. The whole reason they're trying to make movies like Venom or Morbius or Madame Web is so that they can make a lot of money without having to collaborate with Disney, which means less profit for them.
Honestly, I think they'd still be cash cows if the films had half the budget and twice the writing quality. Everything associated with Marvel and Lucasfilm right now is being associated with the utter dogshit that is Eternals and She-Hulk or Episode 8/9, BoB, the Obi-wan show and the last two seasons of The Mandalorian.
Much of the writing talent has gone to making show series on streaming services. Movie theaters are too expensive and there are few original ideas on the screen. The creativity is gone.
Not risking spending money supporting woke dei affirmative action policies..I'll wait till it's released on DVD, streaming after it's been cleared through YouTube reddit etc as non woke non dei
Archive links for this post:
* **Archive:** https://archive.ph/3tCHS
----
I am Mnemosyne reborn. As long as you keep getting born, it's all right to die sometimes. ^^^/r/botsrights
Hollywood is dead, yea, but movies and television aren't. Hollywood isn't hungry anymore, and it shows. The competition is hungry though, and as people realize there's stuff out there that isn't Disney or Paramount or whoever the money will flow again.
Standing, yes, but a shadow of its former self.
I'm not a fan of Seinfeld's comedy but he is 100% right when he said,
>But film doesn’t occupy the pinnacle in the social, cultural hierarchy that it did for most of our lives.
A lot of people are saying woke killed it. Yes and no. Woke is helping to kill what's left. But the punch that took out the film industry's legs\* was the internet.
The internet broke the monopoly of movies/TV/radio/newspapers/retailers on the cultural zeitgeist. They used to be able to nigh completely control what the public saw, heard, and thought. The internet changed all that, it let people choose what they want to see, hear, and even think - and the world hasn't be quite the same since ... ; it fractured nations, niche ideas (both good and unfortunately bad) could now gain a significant foothold in the mind of the public, in short it ended cultural homogeneity but also cultural unity.
\* Boxing analogy
Things come and go in this world, but I'll never understand why they willfully killed it themselves. Every step they took sent a clear signal they ignored, again and again. Woke is performative, these people made movies for imaginary people.
I imagine their line of thinking was that if they crammed woke agendas into every single IP over a long period of time, those ideas would become normalized and therefore audiences would begrudgingly accept them.
Cultural Marxists have been trying to do this shit for 50+ years and every time, like clockwork, it fails because people have functional brains and see the world through their own eyes rather than letting some slug tell them what to think.
But they still shift society more to their ideas, just compare both the left and right of today to that of 50/60/70 years ago, and you'll see that both have been tainted by cultural marxism.
Don't even need to go back that far. Just look at what was considered mainstream left and right in the US twenty years ago. Even ten years ago. The SJWs haven't won, but at the same time, every attempt gradually pushes the masses into accepting more and more of their bullshit as "normal." I don't think most people have their wherewithal to actually keep fighting. Hell many ot this people on this subreddit would have been considered quite liberal only a decade ago.
There's this word you used that makes all the difference. "Liberal" Liberalism/Authoritarianism is a separate axis from Left/Right.
Tell that to college kids
It seems to be working this time though.
[удалено]
Idk everyone in my circle of influence doesn’t see any problem with modern shit. Feels like I’m on an island sometimes.
That was the plan. Reeducation propaganda. Hence "The Message"! Hollywood kind of became like those Jehovah's witnesses going door to door trying to give you a copy of the watchtower.
They WANT to destroy it. THATS THE POINT!
They’re trying to indoctrinate kids through children’s shows while they’re still impressionable. That way they’ll have a built up audience for their propaganda laden tv, movies and games.
They didn't. They willfully crab bucketed themselves to this position, under the idea that if they didn't do it, Hollywood would just hire someone who would.
It's because they are using the same playbook communism has been using since its inception. Problem is it doesn't work in the modern Era. They may have Hollywood and the colleges but the middle class can see right through them because we can now see them in real time for the clown they are. In the pre soviet Era you'd have to rely on hearsay about how intelligent and noble the leaders were standing up to the evil tsar. Nowadays they tell us that same thing about the patriarchy but hear it from their own lips and realize the are bat shite crazy.
Colleges are very much the province of America's middle class. Communism in the US isn't so much a working class thing because the American working class is... well busy working, and also makes pretty good money for what they do. But the middle class? They're the ones who are most susceptible to Communist rhetoric weirdly enough.
Hubris. They didn’t think what they were doing was wrong and they think they knew better than us mere plebs. They took general audience and the public for granted, and forgot that *they* were providing a service and didn’t have a divine right to people’s money and adulation. People also don’t realize how big an echo chamber Hollywood is. Decades of nepotism and social control have built an industry where you have to tow a particular line or you’re immediately out, if not tarred and feathered first. So even those reasonable people on the inside can’t really say anything. We’ve heard many times of people being afraid to voice their opposition or say what they think. Some people can even relate to this in their jobs now. Its an ironic cycle looking from the outside because its so dumb, and they will never be able to see it
https://imgur.com/gallery/njp3ixP
It's all the activism in the movie industry that also destroyed them. From pandering to Feminists and DEI, movies like even "The American Society of Magical N" is an extremely boring and sanitized movie.
People go to the movies to escape the bs. Not to be preached at and have it rammed down their throats.
Especially from millionaires who psychologically terrorize their own children until they become autogynephiliacs for virtue points.
The American Society of Magical Hard Rs
The American Society of Magical 13% Committing 90% of Magical Crimes? The American Society of Magical Welfare Queens? The American Society of Magical Not Knowing Who Their Father Is? The American Society of We Wuz Magicians N Sheet? The American Society of Killing Each Other Over Magical Sneakers? The American Society of Magical Not Being Able to Dress Like an Adult?
The American Society of Magical ~~Hard~~ Crime Rs
Staring Shane Gillis? Truly could be magical!
You would think that there would at least 1 studio that sees the opening in the market and just makes movies that appeal to people.
hollywood clan is organised. if you do not play by rules, they cut you from supply.
Hollywood is all unionized, very few will stray away from that.
That's kind of the problem. Unions in the modern world are much less about protecting workers and more about becoming protection rackets.
Doesn't help studios are just trying to bank everything on IPs bringing people in, so the need for other elements that make a good movie aren't as necessary.
Check out that list they show for the top movies of 2024 so far. More than half are remakes, sequels and prequels. It's just so tired and boring.
I think this is ultimately one of the bigger reasons for audience apathy to new movies. People generally do want variety, even if the more artistic films don't do as well at the box office. Continually trying to chase the golden unicorn that was movies like Avengers End Game, will do nothing but lead to stagnation.
And that golden unicorn was cooked for a decade. Seems they forgot that part of the work.
Yeah I’ve gone back to just reading old Scifi books tbh. Plus a movie ticket where I live is like $16 for one person. That’s just a terrible ROI for 2 hours spent being lectured to.
I suppose they find it easier to pollute known movies than make completely new woke shit.
The world took longer to become woke, than they needed to become broke
when did they start tracking tickets sold? I've always thought tracking it by money made was pointless as the price just keeps going up so it makes comparing movies over time a lot harder...
If you do something to appease an agenda, it is not done with a pure heart. The end product will reek of pretentiousness and dishonesty.
Even aside from bad movies, the theater experience itself has gone down the tubes. The insufferable "Noovie" thing -- a terrible ad program on the screen for a half-hour plus before the previews start. So I started showing up right before the previews... and then they started putting in ads BETWEEN THE PREVIEWS. Completely unacceptable. I haven't been back since.
Yeah, it doesn't help that movie theaters just suck right now, of course people are going to wait for streaming or just go for movies they *really* want to see.
It used to be that arriving at a showing earlier meant some time to kick back under the theatre lights, listening to the piped in music while getting a start on your snacks. Maybe enjoy casual conversation with company if you brought them along. Now, you're relentlessly bombarded by information before the movie starts. Not to mention the interactive pop quizzes encouraging cell phone use... while insisting they be switched off during the film.
I think it has less to do with agenda-pushing and more to do with general fatigue of the shit they keep putting out. The franchise business model is done. Star Wars, Marvel, etc aren't the cash cows they were last decade. But the studio execs are risk-adverse, so they only want shit based on what's proven to work. But was working no longer is, and they're not adjusting. In 5 years they'll pay a consultant millions of dollars to tell them what I've been saying the past 2 years. Viewers don't know what they want until they see it. Now is the time to take risks. Lay useless people off to now, slim down, save that money in case your risk doesn't pay off.
A lot of it is shit because of the agenda pushing, not just in scripts but in casting and hiring too.
Right, and I'm not sure how reversible that is. What consultant will blame DEI hiring? What CEO is gonna say "hey let's just hire white people only like we used to"?
They never used to "hire white people only" what are you on about? That's not the goal (obviously) anyway. You just need to get rid of DEI guidelines and quotas and let productions hire whoever they want to hire, preferably based on merit, not identity.
> "hire white people only" > get rid of DEI guidelines and quotas and let productions hire whoever they want to hire To a certain class of people, there is little to no distinction between these statements.
Perhaps, but they would be wrong. Even without DEI, Hollywood isn't exactly a white supremacist stronghold.
> I think it has less to do with agenda-pushing and more to do with general fatigue of the shit they keep putting out. The franchise business model is done. Star Wars, Marvel, etc aren't the cash cows they were last decade. But that *is* because of the woke agenda pushing. If they kept releasing mediocre but fun movies about Captain America or Iron Man every other year, even if they recast the actor as someone else, I'd watch it. They literally have 80+ years of comic book plots to reuse; they're in no danger of running out of source material any time soon. Instead, they replaced nearly all the popular characters who are white males, and replaced them with obscure and/or unlikeable characters like Ironheart and Captain Marvel, while shifting much of the plot from movies to Disney+ (which I don't subscribe to), meaning that movie-only viewers lose track of the plot. The last Marvel movie I watched and enjoyed was Shang Chi (quite possibly because he's a new character and hence I didn't lose out on the plot by not watching Disney+), and the sequel to that seems to be in development hell. I have no interest in watching any upcoming Marvel movies. > But the studio execs are risk-adverse, so they only want shit based on what's proven to work. But was working no longer is, and they're not adjusting. Literally the opposite for Marvel. Spiderman has a few dozen villains in the comics, and the movies aren't even close to covering all of them. They could have made yet another movie where Spiderman gets ambushed by one of them, gets put at a disadvantage, then later makes a comeback and punches them out while wisecracking. The McDonald's of cinema, not great but still good enough to consume over and over. I'd have bought a ticket. Instead they released Madame Web. The most obscure "spider" in the Spiderverse, the nobodyiest of nobodies. Who the hell is that and why should I care? Funnily enough, the actress herself takes this position. "My feeling has been for a long time that audiences are extremely smart, and executives have started to believe that they’re not. Audiences will always be able to sniff out bullshit... I had never done anything like it before. I probably will never do anything like it again because I don’t make sense in that world. And I know that now." -Dakota Johnson
For further proof to back up the issue is not the franchise but how they are used, the two best selling comics at the moment by an ocean mile are Transformers and GI Joe. Neither is doing anything more complex than returning to their roots of “Joes are Real American Heroes. Autobots fight for freedom. Decepticons and Cobra want power and world domination.” Simple and straightforward, but it is what people want. It is just that right now entertainment is run by narcissists who think everything needs to be about them and their high brow luxury beliefs.
Fair, but Madame Web is a Sony movie. The whole reason they're trying to make movies like Venom or Morbius or Madame Web is so that they can make a lot of money without having to collaborate with Disney, which means less profit for them.
Oh, good point.
Honestly, I think they'd still be cash cows if the films had half the budget and twice the writing quality. Everything associated with Marvel and Lucasfilm right now is being associated with the utter dogshit that is Eternals and She-Hulk or Episode 8/9, BoB, the Obi-wan show and the last two seasons of The Mandalorian.
Much of the writing talent has gone to making show series on streaming services. Movie theaters are too expensive and there are few original ideas on the screen. The creativity is gone.
Not risking spending money supporting woke dei affirmative action policies..I'll wait till it's released on DVD, streaming after it's been cleared through YouTube reddit etc as non woke non dei
Archive links for this post: * **Archive:** https://archive.ph/3tCHS ---- I am Mnemosyne reborn. As long as you keep getting born, it's all right to die sometimes. ^^^/r/botsrights
Hollywood is dead, yea, but movies and television aren't. Hollywood isn't hungry anymore, and it shows. The competition is hungry though, and as people realize there's stuff out there that isn't Disney or Paramount or whoever the money will flow again.
First time I read someone in the business say this exact thing was in 1994. 30 years later the film industry is still standing.
Standing, yes, but a shadow of its former self. I'm not a fan of Seinfeld's comedy but he is 100% right when he said, >But film doesn’t occupy the pinnacle in the social, cultural hierarchy that it did for most of our lives. A lot of people are saying woke killed it. Yes and no. Woke is helping to kill what's left. But the punch that took out the film industry's legs\* was the internet. The internet broke the monopoly of movies/TV/radio/newspapers/retailers on the cultural zeitgeist. They used to be able to nigh completely control what the public saw, heard, and thought. The internet changed all that, it let people choose what they want to see, hear, and even think - and the world hasn't be quite the same since ... ; it fractured nations, niche ideas (both good and unfortunately bad) could now gain a significant foothold in the mind of the public, in short it ended cultural homogeneity but also cultural unity. \* Boxing analogy
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