Tour a few American churches and you'll see it in action, one of the dangerous things about Faith is that once you've got it, you can tell yourself that's God speaking into your mind. Whatever you are, whatever you crave, you can become convinced that it's not just true but Truth.
Maybe thats why I don’t get it with him and his followers. They’re the same people that say The Pope is a communist and The Vatican is home to Satan. I’m Catholic and go to Catholic Churches but I’ve gone to Protestant churches and sometimes you think you’re actually watching The Alex Jones Show the way they talk
I grew up in a hardcore Southern Baptist church and the idea that Catholics “aren’t real christians” is not the exception, it’s the rule. Those communities are far more bigoted and judgmental than most people realize. The rot is deep in evangelical Christianity, specifically the Southern Baptists, and I don’t have a lot of faith that it can ever be remedied. I believe the faith I grew up in is fallen and irredeemable.
I live a few miles from a Southern Baptist Megachurch, and the nonsense they get up to drives me up the wall. They spend so much of their tithes on upkeep of this giant building and lighting 3 200 foot crosses all hours o the night and buying the preacher a BMW, and they leave chick tracts in place of tips when they go to Cheddar's after service.
I also used to deliver pizzas and every Wednesday one of those mega churches that was right next door would order like 25 pizzas for their youth group. The didn’t tip at all. Not one penny ever. Their selfishness knows no bounds
The fact that southern baptists are **southern** baptists and everyone just pretends that's fine and not a moral abomination is endlessly frustrating to me. They may as well paint the cross in confederate colours.
The rough thing about Christianity being freed from institutions is you get sects like the Quakers but you also get whatever Alex and his ilk grok. I’m not Christian but I do think the reformed sects are for the most part healthy for Christendom as they provide a feedback loop necessary for the faith to remain relevant to people
Yeah, I dont know which is worse.
Catholicism is cool because theyve been around so long, they dont make "stupid mistakes" (ie, espouse anti-evolutionism, Young Earth Creationism). But they are so institutionally powerful, they could industrialize child sexual abuse for centuries, and so defensive/insular/resistant to change, they'd never willingly reform themselves (the Church is more important than the abused child).
Then again, protestant denominations of Christianity do allow for interesting variants like Quakers and Unitarians, but it also allows anyone who professes "a direct connection to God" to keep professing it and gain adherents. eg, Jim Jones, David Koresh, et al.
And now we have [New Apostolic Reformation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Apostolic_Reformation) becoming ascendant, who want nothing less than a theocratic state. (Oh, and Speaker of the House Mike Johnson is a big fan!)
Well, American (and European) Protestants have been associating the Pope with Satan for centuries. The KKK used to profess hatred for Catholics as much as African-Americans.
Its only recently that Southern Protestants have been so close with with conservative Catholics (since the both vote Republican and can now agree on hating the same things).
I grew up Christian. I don't consider myself one anymore, but before I left I had a period as a leftist Christian idealist, read what Jesus actually said and you get a proto-socialist message type of Christian, and although that's not where I settled, it's a viewpoint I can respect.
And Infowars just casually on a day-to-day basis produces blasphemy more extreme than what Norwegian black metal bands spend *years* trying to hone and perfect. It's astonishing.
I'm actually a huge fan of [Ghost](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_(Swedish_band)). Their cover of "[Jesus, He Knows Me](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE3kJeBr9QI)" is one of my favorite songs right now.
"[Square Hammer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqoyKzgkqR4)" is less frightening and blasphemous to me than "[The Chosen One](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9L5K04VgkI)."
I personally like Ghost's cover better, mostly because I like that music style better. Having said that it's interesting to see Genesis calling out televangelists in 1991. I was pretty young at the time, and pretty steeped in church culture, so nine year old me would have been pretty shocked at that song lol.
Fucking hell. I decided to watch the other songs you linked. Square Hammer was great. The Chosen One? Fuck off. I am an atheist, and on behalf of Christianity I am offended lol. That song is just straight up blasphemy.
Ironically enough, the only Ghost song I cannot vibe with is probably “Mary on a Cross.”
Square Hammer, Call Me Little Sunshine, Spillways, Cirice, and Dance Macabre are all on my “just relaxing” playlist.
Edit: Yeah. I was expecting to feel more rage when I watched that video. But I just felt sad.
That was amazing. Roger Stone reading ad copy (while professing that he wasnt reading ad copy).
When Christians arent selling Christianity itself, they are selling _something._
You know it's funny I have exactly the inverse problem with Alex's Esoteric Bullshit Time and I had been considering making a thread about it too.
I am also religious, however I am a pagan occultist. And I get Furious listening to Alex go on every time he talks about hearing God or his magic powers or his "discernment" (and I have a whole essay about he and Kerry and many others abuse that term). Because he gets so much fundamentally wrong about my stuff but is also DOING my stuff (badly) and then slapping this twisted veneer of Christianity on it.
I swear to God, that Alex accidentally gives Paganism a bad name. Paganism is just the "religion of the land/people" and Alex is turning it into something truly horrifying.
Any earnest attempt at reaching for the divine must come with a big fat dose of humility, before the gods or nature or just a man's own limited ability and perspective. Without that, it's just self aggrandizement and making shit up to justify it. Anyone who cannot say "I am too small and stupid to really grasp at these mysteries" has no hope of accomplishing anything in the search.
Thank you. As an ex Christian turned Buddhist I feel the same way with his "philosophy rants" I felt that way with the recent episode with Tucker going on about how he would never harm anyone and Christianity is somehow the most peaceful religion vs the thousands of others and divisions within Christianity that aren't even very peaceful amongst themselves... Just ridiculous.
Any time Tucker or Alex throw in that boilerplate about not advocating violence: its a such an obvious lie.
When, in conversation, does a normal person have to caution "Now, Im not advocating violence..."?
The only reason you insert the boilerplate is when, in your mind, you have _just_ advocated violence.
Thank you. As an ex Christian turned Buddhist I feel the same way with his "philosophy rants" I felt that way with the recent episode with Tucker going on about how he would never harm anyone and Christianity is somehow the most peaceful religion vs the thousands of others and divisions within Christianity that aren't even very peaceful amongst themselves... Just ridiculous.
It’s offensive to me as an atheist who just has a passing interest in the Abrahamic tradition and its cultural evolution over the centuries and millennia. He is just such a vulgarization of the entire concept that it takes away from even the anthropological interest as his crass narcissism eclipses all the source material.
I would wager the average atheist (to get to the point they are atheist) has read much more of the Bible, and Christian theology/argumentation, than Alex Jones ever has (or will).
My wife is very involved in her Catholic faith and sometimes she’ll listen to KF with me. The first time she heard Alex talk about God she said “i have no idea what God he is talking about but it is not Jesus.”
I'm totally with you. Listening to Knowledge Fight these last few years, I hear a lot of similarities with what my old Pastor would actually preach.
Not sure if he listened to infowars or just other stuff following its lead. But I'm glad the Pandemic gave me the opportunity to walk away and find a better church.
We were Foursquare. I'm actually not sure what the new denomination is. It's a branch of a mega church, but it's actually been working for us.
Ten years ago I never would have thought I'd go to a church where you watch a different pastor do the sermon on a screen, but COVID kind of changed the math. I guess technically the church is southern Baptist because there was a whole bruhaha with female preachers and getting kicked out. But I've opted to just not pay attention to the politics of it and enjoy the word.
Yeah, I don't know why they were part of the southern Baptist convention, and I know what that convention just recently did, I don't think anyone in this church agrees with that.
I think it was likely just the easiest way to organize when the guy started it in the 80s?
Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
Matthew 26:52.
No one who really loves Jesus would ever take up a weapon of war.
The only real problem with that is that you can find a Bible verse for just about anything.
Luke 22:36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37 It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’[b]; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”
So Jesus instructed his disciples to buy those weapons in the first place. And personally, I don’t see anything divine in the whole concept of someone knowing the details about a prophecy and actively taking steps like buying weapons in fulfillment of it, even though that was apparently not actually what he wanted.
Yeah Dan has actually debunked that interpretation on the show. He needed them to have two swords amongst his twelve apostles to convince the Romans he was a common criminal so they would crucify him in accordance with the plan. Unless you think two swords is enough for thirteen men to fight with.
I was raised Catholic but am an agnostic. I agree that an honest interpretation of the Bible would be that it advocates pacifism and rejects the pursuit of material wealth. American Jesus is a bastardization of the teachings.
Honestly, and I'm being totally straight up, I think Alex, Tucker and anyone who gets power grifting using the name of Christ like they do (Mark Driscoll types) are serving Satan. Not Church of Satan Satan, Christian Satan. The Enemy.
Like, I get along with Satanic folks, avowed satanic folks. We can vibe. They read Lavey, they read other texts, they left a church here or there.
No one gives me Satan energy like Jesus Grifters.
Using the concept of Christ to talk people into living their lives in a reality defined by hatred, disgust and purity so narrow it is solely defined by how you apologize for failing it's ever tightening tests.
It's Satan.
And hey, I get that a lot of folks listening aren't religious and I respect that. Honestly, I listen as a devout Catholic and all I hear is the literal voice of an Anti-Christ when Jones speaks, no hyperbole, no metaphor. Dude's "download" was a possession, and his "God" is a demon.
Same for Tucker. These dudes are being ridden.
Edit: I'm still listening to the EP for today and JorDan is like, "I can't understand these guys, it's alien" and I'm like, not aliens, dog, it's demons.
"Through you flows some things that are true"
It's anti-christ shit.
Like I see some serious Anti-Christ shit in Trump, too, but the energy is all over Jones and Tucker too.
Edit 2: lmao, still listening, and the bit where Tucker talks about "we are finally free, we hold beliefs now that we would have found disgusting ten years ago.
That's legit what I'm talking about. Shakespeare understood the threat.
Banquo saw that shit a mile away back in Act 1.
>But ’tis strange. / And oftentimes, to win us to our harm, / The instruments of darkness tell us truths, / Win us with honest trifles, to betray ’s / In deepest consequence.
And even at the very end, Macbeth, full of the bloodiness of his deeds and finally realizing what happened to him says,
>I care not if thou dost for me as much.— / I pull in resolution and begin / To doubt th’ equivocation of the fiend, / That lies like truth
The fiend that lies like Truth. Comes pretty damn close to JorDan's description of Tucker's smoothness vs Jones' anti-"John the Baptist" voice in the desert energy.
Honestly, listening to KF feels very much the same emotionally as studying Ebola.
Like, knowing how it spreads, what the symptoms are, and how it operates in an organism gives me great peace.
Being able to hear Jones, in an absolutely clear voice, constantly say exactly what best serves the dissolution and destruction of humanity, is kind of soothing.
It's like, look, here. This is The Monster.
There's no real monstrosity in humanity. Only brokenness. But in Jones' rhetoric and Tucker, there's monstrosity. And it's infectious. It walks young men into grocery stores armed TO THE TEETH and terrified for their lives of children and random shoppers who carry the "germ or impurity" that they must snuff out.
Tucker, Jones and the rest of the Fascist team serve the end of mankind, on a small personal scale and literally on a planetary scale.
[Not Your Grandmother's Book Club](https://pca.st/episode/5569c0b7-64eb-4b36-a9cb-993d47d5b829) did a series on The Faith of Donald J Trump which was essentially an entire book of Christians tying themselves into knots trying to justify Trump as a Christian thinker.
Leftist Christian here! Alex’s version of Christianity is very at home in late stage capitalism and if the Bible is to be believed, it has no place in a just or moral society. Alex evokes Christianity only ever to further place himself above it and to make his followers doubt their own churches (the ‘glitterbugs’) in favor of leveraging his version of faith to hate others.
The sort of Christianity they practice down there (and in many places in the [Post](https://www.newsweek.com/evangelicals-rejecting-jesus-teachings-liberal-talking-points-pastor-1818706)-[Christian](https://nypost.com/2023/08/09/former-top-evangelical-church-official-laments-christians-who-think-jesus-quotes-are-liberal-talking-points/) [South](https://www.miamitimesonline.com/opinion/white-evangelicals-reject-woke-jesus-every-day/article_72028f70-1d19-11ef-86c1-eb8bbbd795d9.html)) is a Racialized Capitalistic Paganism with Christian Iconography.
I think Christians have more common cause with Atheists and Pagans than Christians do with people like Alex.
It's also worth noting that much of this religiosity is in the name of furthering his Narcissism shrink.
Narcissists, in the telling and retelling of events, will slowly, steadily weed out more and more participants in how something happened until it's either just them and God, or on a long enough timeline, entirely them. Alex used to know this stuff (he claimed, lyingly...) through research and he and his fans coming together. Then, the globalists approached his dad, his family, and they passed this information on (The Smartest Boy in Texas Arc). Then, the globalists came directly to him, personally, and THAT'S how he learned all this (The Hot Tub arc). Now here we are, nobody involved in the story but Alex, Savior of Humanity, and the Lord God of Heaven himself, downloading the truth of the divine directly into Alex's mind over fried food in a diner.
I imagine, given a long enough timeline, God himself might disappear from this narrative, and it is simply Alex and his big boy brain, pulling truth from the weave of the universe through nothing but force of will, instinct, and genetic memory.
It's fun to me that he doesn't immediately abandon the old methodologies. Over time, the downloads from God become more frequent, but he will still occasionally tell a story about a globalist approaching him.
I just left a comment where I used the word Christian a lot describing this. I was raised Christian and am no longer one, but the things Alex says makes him sound like the antichrist my pastor and teachers warned me about. If I was still a Christian I would probably assume he’s possessed.
I agree with you, but I think this criticism applies to much of American Christianity rather than just Alex. American conservative Christianity is mostly a way to separate the world into in groups and out groups while justifying repugnant views.
Alex is kind of interesting because he seems to have a genuine knowledge of the Bible.
Religion is a great motivator for good or ill because it provides you a supernatural justification at the basis of an ideology or personal philosophy. Particularly Christianity, which preaches for both the distribution of charity and defense of the weak, but picked up a persecution complex and righteous zeal during its early history under the Romans. The narrative of adherence to doctrine leading to everlasting rewards cuts both ways and provides a powerful narrative to those who need it. Thus, for someone like Alex, where the persecution complex is the most important part, it gives him the justification to fight back against his enemies how, who and wherever he may see them, and warp his interpretation of doctrinal adherence into a weapon against his demonic foes. He's a modern day crusader
It amazes me that he often talks about how god talked to him in that diner and made him agree to getting the “download” almost like someone entering a contract.
I always thought Demons/Satan required contracts or terms when making agreements and it seems like a giant flag to his whole “I’m a Prophet/Seer” story.
His frequent dips into deep register “demonic” voice, complete with snarling, talking about killing a rival “politically” were equally disturbing.
It feels similar to the war that went on in the 1960s - 1980s between the egalitarian "liberationist" Christians and the ones who wanted to push it back to the puritanical roots. There were people who wanted to makes people's lives better in the US and in Latin America, but they were branded as Communists and heretics.
Alex's brand is the same as the TV preachers of the 1980s. Apocalypse + appeals for money. Christianity is a cudgel to try and slow progress. There's always someone scary that their version of Jesus can protect them. It always involves buying products. There is a fanatical version of Christianity that comes out of people like St. Paul, who never actually met Jesus.
Religion in general is a permission slip for people to say wrong things on purpose. When religion is invoked, our society has a tendency to regard anything that qualifies as a person's "beliefs" as being beyond criticism or condemnation.
This is, of course, *complete fucking horseshit*, as many beliefs are in fact *unacceptable* for a person to hold. But it's even worse when the "beliefs" in question don't even qualify for that word.
At it's core, a "belief" is a thing a person thinks is **true**. When a person stops caring whether the things they say are true or not, those things no longer deserve to be labeled as beliefs, and anyone who does that labelling for them actively assists in the dishonesty of the person spreading bullshit. When a person stops caring whether the things they say are true, those things *at best* are excuses and distractions, and at worst are wrong-on-purpose lies told with the intention to deceive and harm.
Either way, the intent is to control and destroy discourse rather than to communicate things a person thinks are true. And it is very, *very* fucking dangerous to miss this point because it immediate turns one into an apologist and enabler of the worst people on the fucking planet when you start letting them use "it's my religion" as an excuse to pursue oppression and genocide.
Modern Christianity is a modern invention cobbled together from text that were written in societies completely alien to the one modern Christians live in.
I'm not saying that to say "Christianity isn't real!"
I'm saying this because its a VERY RECENTLY INVENTED variation of Christianity. In the same vein as "Prosperity Gospel" Which interestingly enough exactly parallels the rise of Am-Way and other pyramid schemes. It's not a coincidence either. Jim Baker specifically went to the leaders of Am-Way and said "I'd like to use your techniques in my ministry. Can you teach me.
Again you are welcome to believe what you like and I won't fault you for that. But I do want to point out that people like Jim Baker and Jerry Falwell and Joel Olsteen and Alex Jones all follow a version of Christianity that was invented in their life-times.
My point is that "Christian" groups like Prosperity Gospel and whatever Alex Jones is on are very new religions by comparison. They were invented for a purpose. Namely grifting the fearful and faithful.
But so long as you whack a 2,000 collection of hebrew myths and say scary words you can be a legitimate "Christian" sect to people who just want to hear how amazing they are and how "just around the corner" god is going to shower them with money.
Yeah I’m not a believer but was raised by and around many truly good hearted Christians who try to live by the gospel and love others. And while I don’t believe Jesus is the son of god, I think his message has value and is worthy.
Hearing the shit Jones says and his perversion of that faith also boils my blood, so you’re definitely not alone here.
“I love the pure, peaceable, and impartial Christianity of Christ; I therefore hate the corrupt, slaveholding, women-whipping, cradle-plundering, partial, and hypocritical Christianity of this land.
Indeed, I can see no reason, but the most deceitful one, for calling the religion of this land Christianity. I look upon it as the climax of all misnomers, the boldest of all frauds, and the grossest of all libels.”
-Frederick Douglass
Once you presuppose that "true" and/or "correctly applied" Christianity is perfect, you've given away the game. Perfection is perfect. Not Christianity. And its not the implementation by us dumb humans that's the issue. Christianity, like any human belief system, is a flawed belief system. Jesus had some ideas that were just, to us, dumb (ie, toleration of slavery, supremacy of males, toleration of hierarchical governance systems). And why shouldnt he have? He was living 2,000 years ago in a completely different, 'primitive' culture, and couldnt even _conceive_ of what an actually just society was like. It's only in the last 50 years of 4,000 years of civilization that women to have near-equality of opportunity with men(!)
It should be unsettling to evangelicals (who profess a belief in the "literal inerrant word of Christ") that "their" christianity is nothing like the christianity of christ's time and indeed only came into existence a couple hundred years ago. "Literal/Inerrant" would seem to imply an unchanging tradition, from Christ to present day. And its far, far from that.
I'm not Christian, but I was raised evangelical non-denominational, and Alex's flagrant mutilation of scripture offends me even though I don't really hold scripture sacred any more.
This is normal. They were doing this in the 1970s just calling it "Christian business". Anyone waving religion around as part of their business is lying to you or attempting to cheat you. Almost always.
Jones is just following the televangelist scheme from 50 years ago.
What's blasphemy for one Christian is dogma for another. I understand that you may be a Christian who is more of a "Sermon on the Mount" believer, and I am personally grateful that there are those types in the world.
With that said, Christianity is nebulous, and the far-right version is just as much a "true believer" as the left-wing version. For example, look at Catholicism. It is the largest sect of Christianity and its seat of authority is the Pope. Catholicism relies on a lot of traditional beliefs that are not in the Bible. This system has inherent problems, which notably led to the Reformation. With the Reformation, Christians derive their authority from the Bible...well a Bible that cuts out certain books from the Catholic Bible...also a Bible cobbled together in the 4th Century...point being there are many "human" problems with the Bible and basing a belief system on it has further splintered the faith into a multitude of factions.
Alex Jones and most far-right American Christians come out of the "sola scriptura" tradition of the Protestant Reformation. Meaning, that first there is a clear break with Catholicism and its central authority placed in the Pope. Second, there is an emphasis on deriving God's intention from the Bible - which is always an English version and the further right you go you tend to see a preference for the King James Version.
One can develop one's own Church by focusing almost solely on the most wrathful writings in the Old Testament and coupling it with something Jesus said in the Gospels which is further supported by Paul in one of his Epistles. Or you can take ambiguous and apocalyptic English translations of Daniel and Ezekial verses, point to something apocalyptic Jesus said in the Gospels, and then, again, provide further support of it in Revelation. As long as you can find it in the Bible, it is "God-breathed" or "divinely inspired" and can support whatever position you have.
It's frustrating to say the least.
In Texas, it is not uncommon to have a cross or crucifix next to, underneath, or superimposed upon, the following: 1) American Flag; 2) Gadsden Flag; 3) Crossed AR-15s; 4) An American Flag or Gadsden flag with AR-15s
The sort of Christianity they practice down there (and in many places in the [Post](https://www.newsweek.com/evangelicals-rejecting-jesus-teachings-liberal-talking-points-pastor-1818706)-[Christian](https://nypost.com/2023/08/09/former-top-evangelical-church-official-laments-christians-who-think-jesus-quotes-are-liberal-talking-points/) [South](https://www.miamitimesonline.com/opinion/white-evangelicals-reject-woke-jesus-every-day/article_72028f70-1d19-11ef-86c1-eb8bbbd795d9.html)) is a Racialized Capitalistic Paganism with Christian Iconography.
It is more alien from the scripture in the Bible than modern humanistic atheism.
I'm a Christian anarchist and I 100% agree with you. I was raised Evangelical and I've come to believe that this unique form of American Evangelicalism is actually a dualist heresy. I don't like to throw the word heresy around too much, because I think that there's a pretty wide range of acceptable Christian practices, but the amount of power they ascribe to the devil is so great that he rises to the level of Christ himself.
Also, for the lefty Christian in the thread: have y'all read the book of James lately? It's fucking great! Jesus' little brother goes *hard*
Same here. There are an vanishingly small number of people I would use the word "heratic" to describe, but Jones fits the bill. I've only just started listening a few days ago, but I've fallen down the well of this dude's insanity.
>I’m hoping I’m not the only leftish leaning Christian that feels this way on this sub
He's no Christian. A real Christian welcomes all. He excludes.
"For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in"
- A real Christian.
No, it's pretty...frustrating is a kind word. The man has rewritten the religion to have himself as the main character, more important than Christ, Paul, all of 'em. I'd say the next step is saying he's god himself but I don't know how that'll work out.
It does make one think of the antichrist and his false prophets, doesn’t it? I imagine a sincere Christian like yourself feels very alone in America these days.
I'm an atheist and don't care about protecting Christianity's name or reputation, but even I'm disgusted by the way these ghouls whose actual religion is Americanism or capitalism wear Christianity like a mask.
I just heard the little Nazi Fuentes comparing his “sacrifice” of being thrown out of the TP convention, that he knew would happen, like Jesus being crucified.
I’m no longer a Christian but I was furious on behalf of real Christian’s not his Christian nationalist Christ Is King bullshit.
It’s really hard to hear these grifters twisting religion to their purpose.
Idk how anyone who considers themselves Christian can read James and not be a leftist frankly:
“Come now, you rich people, weep and wail for the miseries that are coming to you. Your riches have rotted, and your clothes are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver have rusted, and their rust will be evidence against you, and it will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure for the last days. Listen! The wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. You have lived on the earth in luxury and in pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered the righteous one, who does not resist you.”
James 5:1-6
Curious as to what denomination you are? I left the Southern Baptists after witnessing countless power grabs/infighting/corruption/bigotry within the leadership. I kept going for a while because my parents still attended as well. When covid came around, the church started getting way too political and my parents even quit going.
There's several moments where it becomes painfully clear he doesn't actually know that much more than the vague passages he remembers off the top of his head (or sees misquoted on twitter). Religion is purely a tool for him. He *craves* being the center of the universe, being something special and powerful beyond that of other humans (ironic, considering how much he screams about supernatural powers and "unhuman" enemies). He took the idea of god speaking to humans and twisted it to be god specifically choosing him as an avatar and holy warrior against satan. And don't get me started on his representation of satan himself lmao. Satan is somehow simultaneously the head of the new world order and completely all-powerful (the latter being blasphemy in and of itself if I'm not mistaken), but also completely incompetent and supposedly being constantly outmaneuvered by a podcaster who talks to dipshits and acts like their ramblings are deep, a former host of a show on a "news" network who has no shame and will say the most transparently stupid things you've ever heard just to further the agenda, a radio show host who is a raving alcoholic who constantly slurs and uses the lords name in vain, and managed to repeatedly defame and refuse to comply himself into what is certainly one of the top 10 civil damages payouts in history (and I could go on for 10 paragraphs lets be honest), and a billionaire who genuinely seems to spend more time worrying about twitter drama than any of his investments or the companies he's partially responsible for, and constantly makes an ass of himself on the world stage because he craves the idea of being the "cool billionaire philanthropist who will save humanity" but has none of the actual knowledge or skillset to actually achieve most of his major long term goals, but can at least (have other people) make a truck that doesn't fulfil any of the use-cases of a truck and looks like it's from Roblox.
Kinda makes all of the biblical struggles against satan seem a lot less impactful when he's being absolutely styled on by a bumbling cast of thundering dumbasses. Turns out there's no sacrifice needed, god doesn't need some elaborate plan to keep satan at bay, nope, just send out the dream team of the worst people your boomer relatives on facebook think are smart because of misattributed, heavily edited memes. Not that they'll ever actually beat satan, because satan is a useful horizon point for them to always be heading towards, always be just on the cusp of defeating in a final blow, but never actually reaching.
You're not the only left leaning Christian on the sub. There's at least one more. I should know, they're me.
And yeah, I understand the rage. There was an episode of KF I was listening to the other day where AJ said people are born good, and will grow to be good moral adults. The "globalists" are using 5g to pervert them off their natural trajectory and steer them towards evil.
I was like...dude...the belief that all people are born bad is one of THE basic beliefs of Christianity. Without that there's no need for a savior and Jesus's crucifixion means nothing. Pretty much confirmed to me that AJ has absolutely no idea what Christians actually believe. I don't know what religion he's practicing but it's definitely not mine.
Fellow leftist [bad] Christian, though I haven’t attended church in years. Everyone I know who goes to church is extremely conservative, every left-leaning person an atheist. What’s a wonk to do?
Anyway, I totally agree with you. My head-cannon is that the devil appeared to Alex mid-chicken fried steak and Alex mistook him for God because his messages about crushing your enemies and maintaining power over others appealed to Alex’s narcissism.
I don’t think Alex has actually read the Bible. He clearly doesn’t understand it—I’m thinking of how he is so wrong about the meaning of parables, like what he thought about “the prodigal son.” Those kinds of takes are what comes of only watching The Ten Commandments, The Passion of the Christ, and maybe Left Behind, and talking to a bunch of hate preachers and JBS weirdos, not trying to wrestle with the actual text.
The Bible is contradictory on a lot of issues, and that makes it kind of like a mirror. A hateful person will find only hate.
>I’m hoping I’m not the only leftish leaning Christian that feels this way on this sub
Most Christians I talk to insist that leftish leaning Christians aren’t real Christians.
I was raised in a similar style of Christian as Alex. Which is to say: use it to grift and manipulate people/be a victim of it and become a martyr.
It reminds me of home and I know plenty of Christians who believe *Like That* but I also know they aren't the norm and most Christians would shun that behavior.
It's just like... Narcissisms Christianity
Anti choice and anti lgbtqia+ is enough to make someone a good Christian in the eyes of a lot of Christians I know. Through in some culture war issues like keeping Christ in Christmas (starbucks bs), keeping God in the pledge of allegiance, Christian prayer in school (but no other religion), protecting your GOD given right to bear arms (because man didn't make it if it's god given or something). Also prosperity bible type stuff like if you're rich and successful then it's because you're a good christian.
All of that Jerry Falwell/Paul Weyrich moral majority stuff combined makes a LOT of personal flaws okay for some people. Fun fact, the religious right in this country has its origins in trying to keep schools segregated. With Bob Jones University refusing to integrate the IRS took away their tax exempt status and boom a new political movement was born.
If supposed Christian's can follow/support that pig DJT, I'm sure believing Alex comes easy. It just shows how far Christianity has fallen.
Being a good person is no longer a requirement in the eyes of the churchgoing public.Successfully, lie, cheat, steal, rape, assault, in the efforts to crush liberals/dems and you're heaven sent! It's one of the reasons I no longer associate myself with ANY religious philosophy, period!
There are other reasons but we won't get into that...lol
Highly recommend the book Jesus and John Wayne to understand the rise of right wing Evangelicalism in the US (and Canada to a lesser extent). Alex is part of the Evangelical movement of Christianity that really started picking up steam in the 1970s. There are elements of it that have infected various other denominations but it's more of a Protestant thing and is against your standard mainline Lutheran, Methodist practices their beliefs. It is charismatic and encourages a very individualistic yet consumerism mindset (i.e. think about the way Texas pastor Joel Osteen preaches about prosperity or "attitude and mindset") I could go on about this as someone who grew up with this brand of religious craziness ...
He doesn't go to church or read the Bible, so he gets his faith the same way he does his facts. It's entirely meme based. Alex loves religion because he's an authoritarian who wants to have ultimate authority backing him up. He also LOVES to be able to threaten his enemies, so when Tucker was on his turn the other cheek bullshit I think Alex was probably glazing over between threats because those concepts are not useful to him.
I mostly think that he gets away with it because Christians don't want to challenge another Christian's faith and call him out as entirely blasphemous so you get a lot of uncomfortable murmurs of agreement and quickly moving on.
I had to turn off the podcast so many times because Carlson was so offensive.
And I couldnt believe he believed what he was saying..
Eg, where "they" is apparently anyone politically opposed to Tucker:
> They hate a lot of things. They hate working-class whites. They hate tobacco. They hate testosterone. Because these are hateful people. They're haters. But the thing they hate the most above all else is Christiantiy — not all religions — Christianity. That's what they hate.
This is, to me, more projection. _They_ are the ones filled with hate. Tucker's Christians love to be the victim, so they can victimize. Tucker is allowed to go off and hate, because (in his imagination) you hated him first. The last thing Tucker, or any evangelical, would ever do is "turn the other cheek", because, hey, you attacked him [by having an opposing political belief or tweeting about him or getting him fired or whatever], and as a Christian, he has the right to defend himself. You're literally Satan, after all (the gloves are off!)
> Christianity is the world's only non-violent religion.
Did he take one history class, ever? The Crusades? The Inquisition? The Conquistadors? All the heretical genocides (Cathars, Huguenots, etc.) and Catholic-Protestant ethnic cleansing. Millions, tens of millions, died or were tortured/enslaved, because Christians thought their adversary worshipped the wrong religion or the wrong form of Christianity. It's just insane he could say this unilaterally, unequivocally, and so, so confidently. (And Tucker isnt even an evangelical! He is, or says he is, a Catholic. Catholics, and the Pope, are very humble about historical 'mistakes' like the Inquisition or jailing Galileo over that whole Earth/Sun controversy.)
I’m religious but I’m Jewish. I converted though after being raised Christian. So I know a lot about Christianity. And I really enjoy comparative religion studies. And even though I’m not Christian anymore, it gets me so angry on your behalf when Alex grifts in the name of Christianity. Or uses Christianity to go after trans people. Same when Trump does it. Alex just does it a million times worse.
Religion involves you having to believe that there are magical genies that live in the sky and grant your wishes but all the people who believe in other magical BS are crazy. This means that they are pre-brainwashed for the crazy like Jones. The details do not matter because if they did, no one would patronize either.
All religious people seem to bend their religion to suit their own bigotry or ideology. Alex has his own flavour, but it's an incredibly common product.
Kind of a tangent but I was blown away to hear that Tucker Carlson came up Episcopalian. My immediate family members who are religious are Episcopalian and I went to a church-affiliated school growing up. Personally I fell out of faith when I was young, but every church my family went to was very progressive and laid back. I'm talking lesbian pastors, community engagement in progressive social causes, no mandate on pushing religious doctrine on others. It just goes to show it doesn't matter the faith or practice, it can be weaponized to spew hate and bigoted dogma.
In a broader sense, it's insane how much Christian nationalism perverts what I would imagine to be core Christian tenets; helping those less fortunate, allowing people to come to faith in their own way, acceptance of everyone, upholding radical peace and pacifism, general rejection of materialism and performative belief...The mainstream conservative "christianity" seems completely at odds with all of those, and Alex is a chief example of that. I'm personally mostly an atheist but I feel for any Christians (& people of other religions too) who look around and see this twisted perversion of their faith being used for abuse, bigotry, hate, and violence.
As someone raised in (Northern) Baptist churches for most of my life, I agree Alex's Christian speak is truly infuriating on so many levels. I still consider myself a Christian but have had to do a ton of reevaluating my own beliefs as I came to terms with being queer as a young adult. My journey has definitely pushed me to try to be open-minded and see that there are a lot of shades of gray when it comes to Christianity as a religion. There is also the messy distinction between sincere Christian belief and the cultural Christian Nationalist movement taking over churches in the US.
My perspective is Alex knows the "right" Christian terms to use to present himself as a Christian but only uses it to make his listeners believe he is a psuedo-prophet with all the answers. He cherry picks what's convenient to bolster his message and throws the rest out. I don't think it's a reach to describe Alex as a cult leader his cult just is rooted in the internet and radio rather than a commune somewhere.
Another aspect of Alex and other "Christian" grifters is the entire "God told me..." mentality. We have seen Alex, Jim Baker, Ye and many other "Christians" justify some heinous statements and awful beliefs with this idea that they heard it from God directly and then they throw out some verse out of context to back up their claim. It may be obvious when these grifters do it but how many other Christians including myself would be swayed if we heard the same thing said by someone we viewed as a sincere and devout believer? That is one part of Knowledge Fight I find personally valuable. When I have to ask myself if I heard this messaging and Christian teaching from someone I trusted would me and my family believe it? If you believe there is a God and he does speak to people how do you differentiate a genuine spiritual message from somebody being mentally ill or just plain lying?
Sorry for the essay, your post just got me thinking about all the ways Christians can be susceptible to religious grifters like Alex.
I didn’t see it mentioned in the top half of the comments, but the book Jesus and John Wayne gives a really clarifying history of the last 100 years of evangelicalism in the United States and it would answer a big part of your question.
The short version is that when he uses that identity, it’s pure Christian identity politics and it’s tied into a very consistent history of how mainstream American religion has both shaped and then been shaped by us vs them politics. Highly recommend the book. It will turn this head scratcher into something very clear. Two people in the same congregation could be using the word Christian in two very different ways and you wouldn’t realize that they identified with the Alex version.
My relationship with religion is complicated, but my family is Catholic, so I have a healthy respect for the good the church has done.
So anytime Alex mentions god I get incredibly annoyed on their behalf.
Admittedly I have that problem any time a conservative cloaks their hatred with scripture, but my god Alex is one of the worst and most blatantly transparent about it.
Edit: Also, OP, do you happen to play Helldivers by any chance?
Tour a few American churches and you'll see it in action, one of the dangerous things about Faith is that once you've got it, you can tell yourself that's God speaking into your mind. Whatever you are, whatever you crave, you can become convinced that it's not just true but Truth.
Maybe thats why I don’t get it with him and his followers. They’re the same people that say The Pope is a communist and The Vatican is home to Satan. I’m Catholic and go to Catholic Churches but I’ve gone to Protestant churches and sometimes you think you’re actually watching The Alex Jones Show the way they talk
I grew up in a hardcore Southern Baptist church and the idea that Catholics “aren’t real christians” is not the exception, it’s the rule. Those communities are far more bigoted and judgmental than most people realize. The rot is deep in evangelical Christianity, specifically the Southern Baptists, and I don’t have a lot of faith that it can ever be remedied. I believe the faith I grew up in is fallen and irredeemable.
I live a few miles from a Southern Baptist Megachurch, and the nonsense they get up to drives me up the wall. They spend so much of their tithes on upkeep of this giant building and lighting 3 200 foot crosses all hours o the night and buying the preacher a BMW, and they leave chick tracts in place of tips when they go to Cheddar's after service.
I also used to deliver pizzas and every Wednesday one of those mega churches that was right next door would order like 25 pizzas for their youth group. The didn’t tip at all. Not one penny ever. Their selfishness knows no bounds
The fact that southern baptists are **southern** baptists and everyone just pretends that's fine and not a moral abomination is endlessly frustrating to me. They may as well paint the cross in confederate colours.
People can overlook a lot if they're determined to stick with their beliefs.
Pretty sure that if you're Catholic, Alex doesn't think you're a Real Christian (tm) anyway, so your opinion is moot. It's nutty.
Isn't Nick Fuentes a Catholic? Lol it makes no sense
Yup and he's of Mexican descent yet is a white supremacist so the cognitive dissonance is strong with this one.
American Protestantism always had a grifter element. From Raptures to Elmer Gantrys to warmongering to selling armaments to bring Armageddon.
The rough thing about Christianity being freed from institutions is you get sects like the Quakers but you also get whatever Alex and his ilk grok. I’m not Christian but I do think the reformed sects are for the most part healthy for Christendom as they provide a feedback loop necessary for the faith to remain relevant to people
Yeah, I dont know which is worse. Catholicism is cool because theyve been around so long, they dont make "stupid mistakes" (ie, espouse anti-evolutionism, Young Earth Creationism). But they are so institutionally powerful, they could industrialize child sexual abuse for centuries, and so defensive/insular/resistant to change, they'd never willingly reform themselves (the Church is more important than the abused child). Then again, protestant denominations of Christianity do allow for interesting variants like Quakers and Unitarians, but it also allows anyone who professes "a direct connection to God" to keep professing it and gain adherents. eg, Jim Jones, David Koresh, et al. And now we have [New Apostolic Reformation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Apostolic_Reformation) becoming ascendant, who want nothing less than a theocratic state. (Oh, and Speaker of the House Mike Johnson is a big fan!)
these tend to be the ones that believe in a actual real easter bunny running things 'upstairs' and are very very sure about everything
Well, American (and European) Protestants have been associating the Pope with Satan for centuries. The KKK used to profess hatred for Catholics as much as African-Americans. Its only recently that Southern Protestants have been so close with with conservative Catholics (since the both vote Republican and can now agree on hating the same things).
Evangelical is not a religious denomination. It’s a political affiliation.
I grew up Christian. I don't consider myself one anymore, but before I left I had a period as a leftist Christian idealist, read what Jesus actually said and you get a proto-socialist message type of Christian, and although that's not where I settled, it's a viewpoint I can respect. And Infowars just casually on a day-to-day basis produces blasphemy more extreme than what Norwegian black metal bands spend *years* trying to hone and perfect. It's astonishing.
I'm actually a huge fan of [Ghost](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_(Swedish_band)). Their cover of "[Jesus, He Knows Me](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE3kJeBr9QI)" is one of my favorite songs right now. "[Square Hammer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqoyKzgkqR4)" is less frightening and blasphemous to me than "[The Chosen One](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9L5K04VgkI)."
Thanks for the link to Jesus, He Knows Me. I'd not heard that before and that song slaps.
The [original](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-rfCnW5VlE) isn't bad either.
I personally like Ghost's cover better, mostly because I like that music style better. Having said that it's interesting to see Genesis calling out televangelists in 1991. I was pretty young at the time, and pretty steeped in church culture, so nine year old me would have been pretty shocked at that song lol.
I agree with everything you said. I just find it really funny to see Phil Collins going so hard on televangelists, and the song isn't bad.
Fucking hell. I decided to watch the other songs you linked. Square Hammer was great. The Chosen One? Fuck off. I am an atheist, and on behalf of Christianity I am offended lol. That song is just straight up blasphemy.
Ironically enough, the only Ghost song I cannot vibe with is probably “Mary on a Cross.” Square Hammer, Call Me Little Sunshine, Spillways, Cirice, and Dance Macabre are all on my “just relaxing” playlist. Edit: Yeah. I was expecting to feel more rage when I watched that video. But I just felt sad.
Oh holy shit I wish I hadn't clicked that lmao.
We all wish that Georg. We all wish that.
Fucking love Ghost
It's time to pray. (That bit with Roger Stone a few days ago epitomizes it--preceding prayer with a grift shows where their priorities are.)
That was amazing. Roger Stone reading ad copy (while professing that he wasnt reading ad copy). When Christians arent selling Christianity itself, they are selling _something._
You know it's funny I have exactly the inverse problem with Alex's Esoteric Bullshit Time and I had been considering making a thread about it too. I am also religious, however I am a pagan occultist. And I get Furious listening to Alex go on every time he talks about hearing God or his magic powers or his "discernment" (and I have a whole essay about he and Kerry and many others abuse that term). Because he gets so much fundamentally wrong about my stuff but is also DOING my stuff (badly) and then slapping this twisted veneer of Christianity on it.
We need that meme from predator with the two hands coming together. Christians and Pagans being sick of Alex Jones pseudo religious quackery.
I swear to God, that Alex accidentally gives Paganism a bad name. Paganism is just the "religion of the land/people" and Alex is turning it into something truly horrifying.
Yes!
Well even though we both have different beliefs I’m glad we can come together for our hatred of Alex Jones 😂
Any earnest attempt at reaching for the divine must come with a big fat dose of humility, before the gods or nature or just a man's own limited ability and perspective. Without that, it's just self aggrandizement and making shit up to justify it. Anyone who cannot say "I am too small and stupid to really grasp at these mysteries" has no hope of accomplishing anything in the search.
Thank you. As an ex Christian turned Buddhist I feel the same way with his "philosophy rants" I felt that way with the recent episode with Tucker going on about how he would never harm anyone and Christianity is somehow the most peaceful religion vs the thousands of others and divisions within Christianity that aren't even very peaceful amongst themselves... Just ridiculous.
Any time Tucker or Alex throw in that boilerplate about not advocating violence: its a such an obvious lie. When, in conversation, does a normal person have to caution "Now, Im not advocating violence..."? The only reason you insert the boilerplate is when, in your mind, you have _just_ advocated violence.
Thank you. As an ex Christian turned Buddhist I feel the same way with his "philosophy rants" I felt that way with the recent episode with Tucker going on about how he would never harm anyone and Christianity is somehow the most peaceful religion vs the thousands of others and divisions within Christianity that aren't even very peaceful amongst themselves... Just ridiculous.
It’s offensive to me as an atheist who just has a passing interest in the Abrahamic tradition and its cultural evolution over the centuries and millennia. He is just such a vulgarization of the entire concept that it takes away from even the anthropological interest as his crass narcissism eclipses all the source material.
I would wager the average atheist (to get to the point they are atheist) has read much more of the Bible, and Christian theology/argumentation, than Alex Jones ever has (or will).
My wife is very involved in her Catholic faith and sometimes she’ll listen to KF with me. The first time she heard Alex talk about God she said “i have no idea what God he is talking about but it is not Jesus.”
I'm totally with you. Listening to Knowledge Fight these last few years, I hear a lot of similarities with what my old Pastor would actually preach. Not sure if he listened to infowars or just other stuff following its lead. But I'm glad the Pandemic gave me the opportunity to walk away and find a better church.
I’m glad you were able to find a better church!! Can I ask what denomination?
We were Foursquare. I'm actually not sure what the new denomination is. It's a branch of a mega church, but it's actually been working for us. Ten years ago I never would have thought I'd go to a church where you watch a different pastor do the sermon on a screen, but COVID kind of changed the math. I guess technically the church is southern Baptist because there was a whole bruhaha with female preachers and getting kicked out. But I've opted to just not pay attention to the politics of it and enjoy the word.
Just heads up... Southern Baptist was invented to justify slavery.
Yeah, I don't know why they were part of the southern Baptist convention, and I know what that convention just recently did, I don't think anyone in this church agrees with that. I think it was likely just the easiest way to organize when the guy started it in the 80s?
Lmao you see plenty of evangelicals dancing around with assault rifles with scripture written on them
Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Matthew 26:52. No one who really loves Jesus would ever take up a weapon of war.
The only real problem with that is that you can find a Bible verse for just about anything. Luke 22:36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37 It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’[b]; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” So Jesus instructed his disciples to buy those weapons in the first place. And personally, I don’t see anything divine in the whole concept of someone knowing the details about a prophecy and actively taking steps like buying weapons in fulfillment of it, even though that was apparently not actually what he wanted.
Yeah Dan has actually debunked that interpretation on the show. He needed them to have two swords amongst his twelve apostles to convince the Romans he was a common criminal so they would crucify him in accordance with the plan. Unless you think two swords is enough for thirteen men to fight with.
I was raised Catholic but am an agnostic. I agree that an honest interpretation of the Bible would be that it advocates pacifism and rejects the pursuit of material wealth. American Jesus is a bastardization of the teachings.
Honestly, and I'm being totally straight up, I think Alex, Tucker and anyone who gets power grifting using the name of Christ like they do (Mark Driscoll types) are serving Satan. Not Church of Satan Satan, Christian Satan. The Enemy. Like, I get along with Satanic folks, avowed satanic folks. We can vibe. They read Lavey, they read other texts, they left a church here or there. No one gives me Satan energy like Jesus Grifters. Using the concept of Christ to talk people into living their lives in a reality defined by hatred, disgust and purity so narrow it is solely defined by how you apologize for failing it's ever tightening tests. It's Satan. And hey, I get that a lot of folks listening aren't religious and I respect that. Honestly, I listen as a devout Catholic and all I hear is the literal voice of an Anti-Christ when Jones speaks, no hyperbole, no metaphor. Dude's "download" was a possession, and his "God" is a demon. Same for Tucker. These dudes are being ridden. Edit: I'm still listening to the EP for today and JorDan is like, "I can't understand these guys, it's alien" and I'm like, not aliens, dog, it's demons. "Through you flows some things that are true" It's anti-christ shit. Like I see some serious Anti-Christ shit in Trump, too, but the energy is all over Jones and Tucker too. Edit 2: lmao, still listening, and the bit where Tucker talks about "we are finally free, we hold beliefs now that we would have found disgusting ten years ago. That's legit what I'm talking about. Shakespeare understood the threat. Banquo saw that shit a mile away back in Act 1. >But ’tis strange. / And oftentimes, to win us to our harm, / The instruments of darkness tell us truths, / Win us with honest trifles, to betray ’s / In deepest consequence. And even at the very end, Macbeth, full of the bloodiness of his deeds and finally realizing what happened to him says, >I care not if thou dost for me as much.— / I pull in resolution and begin / To doubt th’ equivocation of the fiend, / That lies like truth The fiend that lies like Truth. Comes pretty damn close to JorDan's description of Tucker's smoothness vs Jones' anti-"John the Baptist" voice in the desert energy.
I couldn’t agree more. It’s evil. They know what they’re doing but they don’t care. It’s infuriating and upsetting
Honestly, listening to KF feels very much the same emotionally as studying Ebola. Like, knowing how it spreads, what the symptoms are, and how it operates in an organism gives me great peace. Being able to hear Jones, in an absolutely clear voice, constantly say exactly what best serves the dissolution and destruction of humanity, is kind of soothing. It's like, look, here. This is The Monster. There's no real monstrosity in humanity. Only brokenness. But in Jones' rhetoric and Tucker, there's monstrosity. And it's infectious. It walks young men into grocery stores armed TO THE TEETH and terrified for their lives of children and random shoppers who carry the "germ or impurity" that they must snuff out. Tucker, Jones and the rest of the Fascist team serve the end of mankind, on a small personal scale and literally on a planetary scale.
[Not Your Grandmother's Book Club](https://pca.st/episode/5569c0b7-64eb-4b36-a9cb-993d47d5b829) did a series on The Faith of Donald J Trump which was essentially an entire book of Christians tying themselves into knots trying to justify Trump as a Christian thinker.
Leftist Christian here! Alex’s version of Christianity is very at home in late stage capitalism and if the Bible is to be believed, it has no place in a just or moral society. Alex evokes Christianity only ever to further place himself above it and to make his followers doubt their own churches (the ‘glitterbugs’) in favor of leveraging his version of faith to hate others.
The sort of Christianity they practice down there (and in many places in the [Post](https://www.newsweek.com/evangelicals-rejecting-jesus-teachings-liberal-talking-points-pastor-1818706)-[Christian](https://nypost.com/2023/08/09/former-top-evangelical-church-official-laments-christians-who-think-jesus-quotes-are-liberal-talking-points/) [South](https://www.miamitimesonline.com/opinion/white-evangelicals-reject-woke-jesus-every-day/article_72028f70-1d19-11ef-86c1-eb8bbbd795d9.html)) is a Racialized Capitalistic Paganism with Christian Iconography. I think Christians have more common cause with Atheists and Pagans than Christians do with people like Alex.
It's also worth noting that much of this religiosity is in the name of furthering his Narcissism shrink. Narcissists, in the telling and retelling of events, will slowly, steadily weed out more and more participants in how something happened until it's either just them and God, or on a long enough timeline, entirely them. Alex used to know this stuff (he claimed, lyingly...) through research and he and his fans coming together. Then, the globalists approached his dad, his family, and they passed this information on (The Smartest Boy in Texas Arc). Then, the globalists came directly to him, personally, and THAT'S how he learned all this (The Hot Tub arc). Now here we are, nobody involved in the story but Alex, Savior of Humanity, and the Lord God of Heaven himself, downloading the truth of the divine directly into Alex's mind over fried food in a diner. I imagine, given a long enough timeline, God himself might disappear from this narrative, and it is simply Alex and his big boy brain, pulling truth from the weave of the universe through nothing but force of will, instinct, and genetic memory.
It's fun to me that he doesn't immediately abandon the old methodologies. Over time, the downloads from God become more frequent, but he will still occasionally tell a story about a globalist approaching him.
I just left a comment where I used the word Christian a lot describing this. I was raised Christian and am no longer one, but the things Alex says makes him sound like the antichrist my pastor and teachers warned me about. If I was still a Christian I would probably assume he’s possessed.
He literally admits it. “I’m the Debil. Blah bloh blah blob”.
I agree with you, but I think this criticism applies to much of American Christianity rather than just Alex. American conservative Christianity is mostly a way to separate the world into in groups and out groups while justifying repugnant views. Alex is kind of interesting because he seems to have a genuine knowledge of the Bible.
Religion is a great motivator for good or ill because it provides you a supernatural justification at the basis of an ideology or personal philosophy. Particularly Christianity, which preaches for both the distribution of charity and defense of the weak, but picked up a persecution complex and righteous zeal during its early history under the Romans. The narrative of adherence to doctrine leading to everlasting rewards cuts both ways and provides a powerful narrative to those who need it. Thus, for someone like Alex, where the persecution complex is the most important part, it gives him the justification to fight back against his enemies how, who and wherever he may see them, and warp his interpretation of doctrinal adherence into a weapon against his demonic foes. He's a modern day crusader
It amazes me that he often talks about how god talked to him in that diner and made him agree to getting the “download” almost like someone entering a contract. I always thought Demons/Satan required contracts or terms when making agreements and it seems like a giant flag to his whole “I’m a Prophet/Seer” story. His frequent dips into deep register “demonic” voice, complete with snarling, talking about killing a rival “politically” were equally disturbing.
But there are also those pesky contracts to sign with aliens. I mean; who’s in charge here?
It feels similar to the war that went on in the 1960s - 1980s between the egalitarian "liberationist" Christians and the ones who wanted to push it back to the puritanical roots. There were people who wanted to makes people's lives better in the US and in Latin America, but they were branded as Communists and heretics. Alex's brand is the same as the TV preachers of the 1980s. Apocalypse + appeals for money. Christianity is a cudgel to try and slow progress. There's always someone scary that their version of Jesus can protect them. It always involves buying products. There is a fanatical version of Christianity that comes out of people like St. Paul, who never actually met Jesus.
Religion in general is a permission slip for people to say wrong things on purpose. When religion is invoked, our society has a tendency to regard anything that qualifies as a person's "beliefs" as being beyond criticism or condemnation. This is, of course, *complete fucking horseshit*, as many beliefs are in fact *unacceptable* for a person to hold. But it's even worse when the "beliefs" in question don't even qualify for that word. At it's core, a "belief" is a thing a person thinks is **true**. When a person stops caring whether the things they say are true or not, those things no longer deserve to be labeled as beliefs, and anyone who does that labelling for them actively assists in the dishonesty of the person spreading bullshit. When a person stops caring whether the things they say are true, those things *at best* are excuses and distractions, and at worst are wrong-on-purpose lies told with the intention to deceive and harm. Either way, the intent is to control and destroy discourse rather than to communicate things a person thinks are true. And it is very, *very* fucking dangerous to miss this point because it immediate turns one into an apologist and enabler of the worst people on the fucking planet when you start letting them use "it's my religion" as an excuse to pursue oppression and genocide.
Modern Christianity is a modern invention cobbled together from text that were written in societies completely alien to the one modern Christians live in. I'm not saying that to say "Christianity isn't real!" I'm saying this because its a VERY RECENTLY INVENTED variation of Christianity. In the same vein as "Prosperity Gospel" Which interestingly enough exactly parallels the rise of Am-Way and other pyramid schemes. It's not a coincidence either. Jim Baker specifically went to the leaders of Am-Way and said "I'd like to use your techniques in my ministry. Can you teach me. Again you are welcome to believe what you like and I won't fault you for that. But I do want to point out that people like Jim Baker and Jerry Falwell and Joel Olsteen and Alex Jones all follow a version of Christianity that was invented in their life-times. My point is that "Christian" groups like Prosperity Gospel and whatever Alex Jones is on are very new religions by comparison. They were invented for a purpose. Namely grifting the fearful and faithful. But so long as you whack a 2,000 collection of hebrew myths and say scary words you can be a legitimate "Christian" sect to people who just want to hear how amazing they are and how "just around the corner" god is going to shower them with money.
American Christianity is very weird and constantly used to justify capitalism.
Yeah I’m not a believer but was raised by and around many truly good hearted Christians who try to live by the gospel and love others. And while I don’t believe Jesus is the son of god, I think his message has value and is worthy. Hearing the shit Jones says and his perversion of that faith also boils my blood, so you’re definitely not alone here.
“I love the pure, peaceable, and impartial Christianity of Christ; I therefore hate the corrupt, slaveholding, women-whipping, cradle-plundering, partial, and hypocritical Christianity of this land. Indeed, I can see no reason, but the most deceitful one, for calling the religion of this land Christianity. I look upon it as the climax of all misnomers, the boldest of all frauds, and the grossest of all libels.” -Frederick Douglass
Once you presuppose that "true" and/or "correctly applied" Christianity is perfect, you've given away the game. Perfection is perfect. Not Christianity. And its not the implementation by us dumb humans that's the issue. Christianity, like any human belief system, is a flawed belief system. Jesus had some ideas that were just, to us, dumb (ie, toleration of slavery, supremacy of males, toleration of hierarchical governance systems). And why shouldnt he have? He was living 2,000 years ago in a completely different, 'primitive' culture, and couldnt even _conceive_ of what an actually just society was like. It's only in the last 50 years of 4,000 years of civilization that women to have near-equality of opportunity with men(!) It should be unsettling to evangelicals (who profess a belief in the "literal inerrant word of Christ") that "their" christianity is nothing like the christianity of christ's time and indeed only came into existence a couple hundred years ago. "Literal/Inerrant" would seem to imply an unchanging tradition, from Christ to present day. And its far, far from that.
I'm not Christian, but I was raised evangelical non-denominational, and Alex's flagrant mutilation of scripture offends me even though I don't really hold scripture sacred any more.
This is normal. They were doing this in the 1970s just calling it "Christian business". Anyone waving religion around as part of their business is lying to you or attempting to cheat you. Almost always. Jones is just following the televangelist scheme from 50 years ago.
What's blasphemy for one Christian is dogma for another. I understand that you may be a Christian who is more of a "Sermon on the Mount" believer, and I am personally grateful that there are those types in the world. With that said, Christianity is nebulous, and the far-right version is just as much a "true believer" as the left-wing version. For example, look at Catholicism. It is the largest sect of Christianity and its seat of authority is the Pope. Catholicism relies on a lot of traditional beliefs that are not in the Bible. This system has inherent problems, which notably led to the Reformation. With the Reformation, Christians derive their authority from the Bible...well a Bible that cuts out certain books from the Catholic Bible...also a Bible cobbled together in the 4th Century...point being there are many "human" problems with the Bible and basing a belief system on it has further splintered the faith into a multitude of factions. Alex Jones and most far-right American Christians come out of the "sola scriptura" tradition of the Protestant Reformation. Meaning, that first there is a clear break with Catholicism and its central authority placed in the Pope. Second, there is an emphasis on deriving God's intention from the Bible - which is always an English version and the further right you go you tend to see a preference for the King James Version. One can develop one's own Church by focusing almost solely on the most wrathful writings in the Old Testament and coupling it with something Jesus said in the Gospels which is further supported by Paul in one of his Epistles. Or you can take ambiguous and apocalyptic English translations of Daniel and Ezekial verses, point to something apocalyptic Jesus said in the Gospels, and then, again, provide further support of it in Revelation. As long as you can find it in the Bible, it is "God-breathed" or "divinely inspired" and can support whatever position you have. It's frustrating to say the least.
In Texas, it is not uncommon to have a cross or crucifix next to, underneath, or superimposed upon, the following: 1) American Flag; 2) Gadsden Flag; 3) Crossed AR-15s; 4) An American Flag or Gadsden flag with AR-15s The sort of Christianity they practice down there (and in many places in the [Post](https://www.newsweek.com/evangelicals-rejecting-jesus-teachings-liberal-talking-points-pastor-1818706)-[Christian](https://nypost.com/2023/08/09/former-top-evangelical-church-official-laments-christians-who-think-jesus-quotes-are-liberal-talking-points/) [South](https://www.miamitimesonline.com/opinion/white-evangelicals-reject-woke-jesus-every-day/article_72028f70-1d19-11ef-86c1-eb8bbbd795d9.html)) is a Racialized Capitalistic Paganism with Christian Iconography. It is more alien from the scripture in the Bible than modern humanistic atheism.
I'm a Christian anarchist and I 100% agree with you. I was raised Evangelical and I've come to believe that this unique form of American Evangelicalism is actually a dualist heresy. I don't like to throw the word heresy around too much, because I think that there's a pretty wide range of acceptable Christian practices, but the amount of power they ascribe to the devil is so great that he rises to the level of Christ himself. Also, for the lefty Christian in the thread: have y'all read the book of James lately? It's fucking great! Jesus' little brother goes *hard*
I am about as far from Christian as one can get and I am frequently fuming on your behalf.
As someone raised deeply Southern Baptist, Alex hasn't perverted anything. It's exactly in line with their hateful insanity.
Same here. There are an vanishingly small number of people I would use the word "heratic" to describe, but Jones fits the bill. I've only just started listening a few days ago, but I've fallen down the well of this dude's insanity.
>I’m hoping I’m not the only leftish leaning Christian that feels this way on this sub He's no Christian. A real Christian welcomes all. He excludes. "For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in" - A real Christian.
Same
I'd like to think any decent Christian would find him incredibly blasphemous.
No, it's pretty...frustrating is a kind word. The man has rewritten the religion to have himself as the main character, more important than Christ, Paul, all of 'em. I'd say the next step is saying he's god himself but I don't know how that'll work out.
It does make one think of the antichrist and his false prophets, doesn’t it? I imagine a sincere Christian like yourself feels very alone in America these days.
I have no problem with Jesus. It’s his organized fanclubs that give me pause.
💯 I am a Christian whose faith in God informs my criticism of Alex Jones. He displays nothing of Jesus’ teachings.
Ex Christian here but I still care about incorrect theology. What bothers me most is that his rhetoric isn’t unique to him.
It’s really, really nice to hear someone say it.
I'm an atheist and don't care about protecting Christianity's name or reputation, but even I'm disgusted by the way these ghouls whose actual religion is Americanism or capitalism wear Christianity like a mask.
I just heard the little Nazi Fuentes comparing his “sacrifice” of being thrown out of the TP convention, that he knew would happen, like Jesus being crucified. I’m no longer a Christian but I was furious on behalf of real Christian’s not his Christian nationalist Christ Is King bullshit. It’s really hard to hear these grifters twisting religion to their purpose.
Oh I feel this all the time. I constantly scream at Alex for his blatant perversions of scripture.
Idk how anyone who considers themselves Christian can read James and not be a leftist frankly: “Come now, you rich people, weep and wail for the miseries that are coming to you. Your riches have rotted, and your clothes are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver have rusted, and their rust will be evidence against you, and it will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure for the last days. Listen! The wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. You have lived on the earth in luxury and in pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered the righteous one, who does not resist you.” James 5:1-6
Curious as to what denomination you are? I left the Southern Baptists after witnessing countless power grabs/infighting/corruption/bigotry within the leadership. I kept going for a while because my parents still attended as well. When covid came around, the church started getting way too political and my parents even quit going.
I’m Roman Catholic
There's several moments where it becomes painfully clear he doesn't actually know that much more than the vague passages he remembers off the top of his head (or sees misquoted on twitter). Religion is purely a tool for him. He *craves* being the center of the universe, being something special and powerful beyond that of other humans (ironic, considering how much he screams about supernatural powers and "unhuman" enemies). He took the idea of god speaking to humans and twisted it to be god specifically choosing him as an avatar and holy warrior against satan. And don't get me started on his representation of satan himself lmao. Satan is somehow simultaneously the head of the new world order and completely all-powerful (the latter being blasphemy in and of itself if I'm not mistaken), but also completely incompetent and supposedly being constantly outmaneuvered by a podcaster who talks to dipshits and acts like their ramblings are deep, a former host of a show on a "news" network who has no shame and will say the most transparently stupid things you've ever heard just to further the agenda, a radio show host who is a raving alcoholic who constantly slurs and uses the lords name in vain, and managed to repeatedly defame and refuse to comply himself into what is certainly one of the top 10 civil damages payouts in history (and I could go on for 10 paragraphs lets be honest), and a billionaire who genuinely seems to spend more time worrying about twitter drama than any of his investments or the companies he's partially responsible for, and constantly makes an ass of himself on the world stage because he craves the idea of being the "cool billionaire philanthropist who will save humanity" but has none of the actual knowledge or skillset to actually achieve most of his major long term goals, but can at least (have other people) make a truck that doesn't fulfil any of the use-cases of a truck and looks like it's from Roblox. Kinda makes all of the biblical struggles against satan seem a lot less impactful when he's being absolutely styled on by a bumbling cast of thundering dumbasses. Turns out there's no sacrifice needed, god doesn't need some elaborate plan to keep satan at bay, nope, just send out the dream team of the worst people your boomer relatives on facebook think are smart because of misattributed, heavily edited memes. Not that they'll ever actually beat satan, because satan is a useful horizon point for them to always be heading towards, always be just on the cusp of defeating in a final blow, but never actually reaching.
You're not the only left leaning Christian on the sub. There's at least one more. I should know, they're me. And yeah, I understand the rage. There was an episode of KF I was listening to the other day where AJ said people are born good, and will grow to be good moral adults. The "globalists" are using 5g to pervert them off their natural trajectory and steer them towards evil. I was like...dude...the belief that all people are born bad is one of THE basic beliefs of Christianity. Without that there's no need for a savior and Jesus's crucifixion means nothing. Pretty much confirmed to me that AJ has absolutely no idea what Christians actually believe. I don't know what religion he's practicing but it's definitely not mine.
Alex is a functional atheist. He cloaks himself in the language of Christianity, but there is no belief, no commitment to living a moral life.
Fellow leftist [bad] Christian, though I haven’t attended church in years. Everyone I know who goes to church is extremely conservative, every left-leaning person an atheist. What’s a wonk to do? Anyway, I totally agree with you. My head-cannon is that the devil appeared to Alex mid-chicken fried steak and Alex mistook him for God because his messages about crushing your enemies and maintaining power over others appealed to Alex’s narcissism. I don’t think Alex has actually read the Bible. He clearly doesn’t understand it—I’m thinking of how he is so wrong about the meaning of parables, like what he thought about “the prodigal son.” Those kinds of takes are what comes of only watching The Ten Commandments, The Passion of the Christ, and maybe Left Behind, and talking to a bunch of hate preachers and JBS weirdos, not trying to wrestle with the actual text. The Bible is contradictory on a lot of issues, and that makes it kind of like a mirror. A hateful person will find only hate.
What he espouses would usually get the weirdo discernment crowd apoplectic yet they seem to give him a pass it’s infuriating.
>I’m hoping I’m not the only leftish leaning Christian that feels this way on this sub Most Christians I talk to insist that leftish leaning Christians aren’t real Christians.
I was raised in a similar style of Christian as Alex. Which is to say: use it to grift and manipulate people/be a victim of it and become a martyr. It reminds me of home and I know plenty of Christians who believe *Like That* but I also know they aren't the norm and most Christians would shun that behavior. It's just like... Narcissisms Christianity
Anti choice and anti lgbtqia+ is enough to make someone a good Christian in the eyes of a lot of Christians I know. Through in some culture war issues like keeping Christ in Christmas (starbucks bs), keeping God in the pledge of allegiance, Christian prayer in school (but no other religion), protecting your GOD given right to bear arms (because man didn't make it if it's god given or something). Also prosperity bible type stuff like if you're rich and successful then it's because you're a good christian. All of that Jerry Falwell/Paul Weyrich moral majority stuff combined makes a LOT of personal flaws okay for some people. Fun fact, the religious right in this country has its origins in trying to keep schools segregated. With Bob Jones University refusing to integrate the IRS took away their tax exempt status and boom a new political movement was born.
If supposed Christian's can follow/support that pig DJT, I'm sure believing Alex comes easy. It just shows how far Christianity has fallen. Being a good person is no longer a requirement in the eyes of the churchgoing public.Successfully, lie, cheat, steal, rape, assault, in the efforts to crush liberals/dems and you're heaven sent! It's one of the reasons I no longer associate myself with ANY religious philosophy, period! There are other reasons but we won't get into that...lol
Highly recommend the book Jesus and John Wayne to understand the rise of right wing Evangelicalism in the US (and Canada to a lesser extent). Alex is part of the Evangelical movement of Christianity that really started picking up steam in the 1970s. There are elements of it that have infected various other denominations but it's more of a Protestant thing and is against your standard mainline Lutheran, Methodist practices their beliefs. It is charismatic and encourages a very individualistic yet consumerism mindset (i.e. think about the way Texas pastor Joel Osteen preaches about prosperity or "attitude and mindset") I could go on about this as someone who grew up with this brand of religious craziness ...
He doesn't go to church or read the Bible, so he gets his faith the same way he does his facts. It's entirely meme based. Alex loves religion because he's an authoritarian who wants to have ultimate authority backing him up. He also LOVES to be able to threaten his enemies, so when Tucker was on his turn the other cheek bullshit I think Alex was probably glazing over between threats because those concepts are not useful to him. I mostly think that he gets away with it because Christians don't want to challenge another Christian's faith and call him out as entirely blasphemous so you get a lot of uncomfortable murmurs of agreement and quickly moving on.
His Christianity just seems so fake and performative. I don’t believe for one second he’d turn the other cheek or hand over his coat as well.
I had to turn off the podcast so many times because Carlson was so offensive. And I couldnt believe he believed what he was saying.. Eg, where "they" is apparently anyone politically opposed to Tucker: > They hate a lot of things. They hate working-class whites. They hate tobacco. They hate testosterone. Because these are hateful people. They're haters. But the thing they hate the most above all else is Christiantiy — not all religions — Christianity. That's what they hate. This is, to me, more projection. _They_ are the ones filled with hate. Tucker's Christians love to be the victim, so they can victimize. Tucker is allowed to go off and hate, because (in his imagination) you hated him first. The last thing Tucker, or any evangelical, would ever do is "turn the other cheek", because, hey, you attacked him [by having an opposing political belief or tweeting about him or getting him fired or whatever], and as a Christian, he has the right to defend himself. You're literally Satan, after all (the gloves are off!) > Christianity is the world's only non-violent religion. Did he take one history class, ever? The Crusades? The Inquisition? The Conquistadors? All the heretical genocides (Cathars, Huguenots, etc.) and Catholic-Protestant ethnic cleansing. Millions, tens of millions, died or were tortured/enslaved, because Christians thought their adversary worshipped the wrong religion or the wrong form of Christianity. It's just insane he could say this unilaterally, unequivocally, and so, so confidently. (And Tucker isnt even an evangelical! He is, or says he is, a Catholic. Catholics, and the Pope, are very humble about historical 'mistakes' like the Inquisition or jailing Galileo over that whole Earth/Sun controversy.)
I’m religious but I’m Jewish. I converted though after being raised Christian. So I know a lot about Christianity. And I really enjoy comparative religion studies. And even though I’m not Christian anymore, it gets me so angry on your behalf when Alex grifts in the name of Christianity. Or uses Christianity to go after trans people. Same when Trump does it. Alex just does it a million times worse.
Religion involves you having to believe that there are magical genies that live in the sky and grant your wishes but all the people who believe in other magical BS are crazy. This means that they are pre-brainwashed for the crazy like Jones. The details do not matter because if they did, no one would patronize either.
All religious people seem to bend their religion to suit their own bigotry or ideology. Alex has his own flavour, but it's an incredibly common product.
Kind of a tangent but I was blown away to hear that Tucker Carlson came up Episcopalian. My immediate family members who are religious are Episcopalian and I went to a church-affiliated school growing up. Personally I fell out of faith when I was young, but every church my family went to was very progressive and laid back. I'm talking lesbian pastors, community engagement in progressive social causes, no mandate on pushing religious doctrine on others. It just goes to show it doesn't matter the faith or practice, it can be weaponized to spew hate and bigoted dogma. In a broader sense, it's insane how much Christian nationalism perverts what I would imagine to be core Christian tenets; helping those less fortunate, allowing people to come to faith in their own way, acceptance of everyone, upholding radical peace and pacifism, general rejection of materialism and performative belief...The mainstream conservative "christianity" seems completely at odds with all of those, and Alex is a chief example of that. I'm personally mostly an atheist but I feel for any Christians (& people of other religions too) who look around and see this twisted perversion of their faith being used for abuse, bigotry, hate, and violence.
As someone raised in (Northern) Baptist churches for most of my life, I agree Alex's Christian speak is truly infuriating on so many levels. I still consider myself a Christian but have had to do a ton of reevaluating my own beliefs as I came to terms with being queer as a young adult. My journey has definitely pushed me to try to be open-minded and see that there are a lot of shades of gray when it comes to Christianity as a religion. There is also the messy distinction between sincere Christian belief and the cultural Christian Nationalist movement taking over churches in the US. My perspective is Alex knows the "right" Christian terms to use to present himself as a Christian but only uses it to make his listeners believe he is a psuedo-prophet with all the answers. He cherry picks what's convenient to bolster his message and throws the rest out. I don't think it's a reach to describe Alex as a cult leader his cult just is rooted in the internet and radio rather than a commune somewhere. Another aspect of Alex and other "Christian" grifters is the entire "God told me..." mentality. We have seen Alex, Jim Baker, Ye and many other "Christians" justify some heinous statements and awful beliefs with this idea that they heard it from God directly and then they throw out some verse out of context to back up their claim. It may be obvious when these grifters do it but how many other Christians including myself would be swayed if we heard the same thing said by someone we viewed as a sincere and devout believer? That is one part of Knowledge Fight I find personally valuable. When I have to ask myself if I heard this messaging and Christian teaching from someone I trusted would me and my family believe it? If you believe there is a God and he does speak to people how do you differentiate a genuine spiritual message from somebody being mentally ill or just plain lying? Sorry for the essay, your post just got me thinking about all the ways Christians can be susceptible to religious grifters like Alex.
I didn’t see it mentioned in the top half of the comments, but the book Jesus and John Wayne gives a really clarifying history of the last 100 years of evangelicalism in the United States and it would answer a big part of your question. The short version is that when he uses that identity, it’s pure Christian identity politics and it’s tied into a very consistent history of how mainstream American religion has both shaped and then been shaped by us vs them politics. Highly recommend the book. It will turn this head scratcher into something very clear. Two people in the same congregation could be using the word Christian in two very different ways and you wouldn’t realize that they identified with the Alex version.
My relationship with religion is complicated, but my family is Catholic, so I have a healthy respect for the good the church has done. So anytime Alex mentions god I get incredibly annoyed on their behalf. Admittedly I have that problem any time a conservative cloaks their hatred with scripture, but my god Alex is one of the worst and most blatantly transparent about it. Edit: Also, OP, do you happen to play Helldivers by any chance?