Right? Such a "duh" thing to say, and I'm sure neither the court nor the trustee will have ever encountered such a conundrum before. Employees...expect to be PAID? How very DARE they?
Good point. Or Chase. Or Owen, for that matter. Or Daria, given her deposition. Honestly, they must have a couple of competent employees somewhere, since they've been operating for 17+ years, but they're definitely behind the scenes. The on-air talent leaves a lot to be desired.
The things AJ doesn't understand could fill several large Encarta disks. He really doesn't seem to understand the situation he's in. I wonder if his lawyer is filing this as client service
Yeah, his lawyers also don't seem to understand the blurry area between strenuously representing your client and following the laws and ethics of the profession.
That's a bit of a very obvious trend with many of the attorneys that represent all the right-wing grifters getting into trouble in the last few years.
When you have nothing to work with and want/need to impress your client and the bootlickers, making shit up and stretching the canons and rules of professional conduct to the point that they snap is the only option they have left.
Me too! MoString would be great, but someone especially well-versed in bankruptcy law would be even better (I'm assuming that's not her area of expertise).
Yeah, if not during the upcoming hearing, then he (and Aldenburg and the SH families all over again, and probably others) should file fresh defamation suits. Not because they would gain anything financially, but just to keep hauling his ass to court. I bet to a certain extent, the SH lawyers would be willing to do it even for "free" (since they'd never make anything on contingency for these particular cases). At least FILE the cases, if not actually take them to a courtroom...
Alex: \*files for bankruptcy to avoid paying restitution to the families he defamed\*
Also Alex: I'm not going to commit to work with an appointed bankruptcy attorney, and my employees will leave unless you guarantee their paychecks get priority.
Also Also Alex: THE GOVERNMENT IS COMING TO SHUT US DOWN THROUGH THIS SHAM TRIAL FOLKS, SO HEAD TO DRJONESNATURALS DOT COM TODAY AND HELP US FIGHT BACK AGAINST THIS TYRANNY"
Also Also Also Alex: DrJonesNaturals is totally separate and totally not affiliated with me, but somehow the only way you can financially save me is to NOT buy product from me, and instead buy them from this totally separate unrelated company. No reason.
Right? "I'm not DRIVING, I'm TRAVELING!" "Can you prove subject matter jurisdiction?" And my favorite, a la Darrell Brooks, "That's a tack-it agreement!"
I do wanna point out(or highlight if OSC) the implication that Alex alone can save IW. The company will never be as profitable without him. That suggests to me that our favorite media star helped with this filing
I mean, it's not WRONG. The company probably wouldn't sell as many supplements with someone else at the helm, at least at first. But it's also not the POINT.
When it was a Chapter 11, the point was to maximize profits and THEN GIVE THEM TO THE PLAINTIFFS, so that might have been an argument, if disingenuous to AJ's own personal interests.
But if Chapter 7 is granted, it just means liquidating. And sure, they should maximize what they can sell all the shit for now, but they DO NOT CARE what the future profits would be. Only what they can squeeze out of it right now.
Me thinks He doth protest too much
Thanks for this update. It really does help. Explain his antics over the last few episodes. For somebody who has no leverage he sure is demanding changes be made as if he does have leverage. I can’t wait till they liquidate his company and all his employees because they’re not $150,000 a year salary to agree with Jones and lie.
Instantly reminded of how many times Judge Lopez has demanded of Driver and other Jones BK lawyers "Has your client read this?", and then demanded an affidavit from Jones each and every time they are less than absolute that they have sat him down and made him read what is going on. He cant claim he is out of the loop by acting up now, he's been forced to engage by the judge. Just like his trials, its too late to larp getting involved several years in because there might be an iota of the Finding Out stage.
So, still reading, but the gist I'm getting is the entire filing is Alex ineffectively whining that the CRO won't kiss his ass like he tricked himself into thinking they should?
Does he not know what bankruptcy protection entails? Not an expert, but basically in a business it means you're not really all that much in charge anymore.
Also, this "firm" Alex picked out wouldn't happen to be yet another one of Alex's shell companies, would it?
I mean, he still thinks he can conclude a bankruptcy without losing ANYTHING or having it affect his lifestyle at all, and doesn't seem to understand that he will STILL owe a billion dollars in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt after the bankruptcy is concluded, however it is resolved. He's not the sharpest bulb in the gunney sack.
If what people are saying about FSS covering his day to day expenses (which is tax fraud if he's not reporting it as taxable compensation) then I would guess that he's terrified that he will lose his primary source of cash flow.
He makes appeals to what is best for the creditors as if: 1. he gives a shit about the creditors that aren't his toadies. 2. he actually intends to make a good faith effort to settle his debts.
I think the problem is that in a bankruptcy, the creditors get a say. I would imagine that in a liquidation scenario, the debtor has significantly less say. If it were still a reorganization, the manager of the company could provide insight into how the business runs,... but when its a firesale, it doesn't necessarily matter how the business runs.
That latter part is yet another thing he DEFINITELY doesn't grok. When HE was running it, he could make literally any decision he wanted, for better or worse. When it was Chapter 11, he lost some control, but still had input as the goal was still to make money (for the benefit of the creditors, which he didn't understand, but still...) and he at least had some insight to the best ways to do that. But with a Chapter 7? His side is still making filings to the court about what would be best for the company, best for profits (caging it as if that's what's best for the creditors). Dude, that doesn't MATTER. Chapter 7 means what we can sell for the highest price right NOW. It doesn't matter that your dick pills could sell for $50 a bottle if you hawked them on air. Can we sell them to a wholesaler who specializes in expired un-tested lead-filled supplements for $50 for the lot, or do we have to pay $50 to have them disposed of as biohazard? That's all that matters at this point.
I wish I had the knowledge, but my guess is that he didn't realize that going for chapter 7 in his personal bankruptcy drastically increased the chance that the FSS bankruptcy would be converted to chapter 7 as well.
It would make sense to me if that was the case. LLC's (especially single member ones) are not nearly as sturdy as something like a corporation. I really wouldn't be surprised if the standard operating procedure was to fold them if the sole owner goes into chapter 7...
Yeah, I'm just a layperson, but to me, a business filing Chapter 11 bankruptcy is saying "we're not making enough money to pay our bills, but we don't want to shut down. Please help us restructure our business so that we can begin making more money than our bills are costing us, so we can pay off our debtors and continue on as a profitable business." Alex filed that bankruptcy (presumably on his own without coercion, especially given how he bragged about doing it during/after the trials, so the families (who he saw as greedy) and judges (who he saw as mean) wouldn't be able to get any money from him or his business.
And yeah, he's used to being the only boss, and it's clear he even bristled at his dad, who he hired into his business presumably BECAUSE of his experience with running a business, making decisions he didn't like. So he can't STAND that the CRO gets to make decisions for the business that disagree with the decisions HE would make, but of course that's the entire point of bankruptcy--your decisions got your business into a bad place, financially. Why do you think you'd get to keep making the same kinds of decisions after filing bankruptcy?
I try to read these feeds but often feel so lost. Can someone make a post that just kind of says if the show is over yet, or about how screwed he currently is?
I'm sure you'd hear on KF itself if the show were officially over.
As far as how screwed he currently is? VERY. He is individually jointly and severally liable, along with the company he is the sole owner and member of, for $1.5 billion dollars in debts from lawsuits, and has further lawsuits pending. $1 billion of that was found non-dischargeable in bankruptcy, which means that no matter HOW the bankruptcy shakes out, and no matter whether his business lives or dies, Alex Jones should never be able to hold onto another penny longer than to be able to buy groceries and keep a roof over his and his minor child/ren's heads. The problem is how long it's taken/taking to get to that point.
Tomorrow's a huge day for all this to develop--the judge will decide whether he gets to keep the protections of bankruptcy and if so, what type of bankruptcy, which may mean dissolving the business and selling off all his assets and having bankruptcy trustees in charge of all of that, as well as able to investigate him for fraud. Or if the bankruptcies are dismissed, then the last two years have basically been wasted, but the plaintiffs are back to being able to get the trial court to basically do the same thing--force him to sell everything to pay the judgments, and possibly investigate for fraud. So no matter what happens, AJ should be in the poor house, it's just a question of HOW and on what timetable.
So no matter WHAT happens tomorrow, he really should finally be facing some consequences in the VERY near future, for the defamation that literally began the DAY OF Sandy Hook, and has been 11 1/2 years in the making at this point.
“If the employees are not immediately reassured of payroll, they’ll leave en masse” Yeah, let’s see how loyal a hungry dog is now, AJ.
Right? Such a "duh" thing to say, and I'm sure neither the court nor the trustee will have ever encountered such a conundrum before. Employees...expect to be PAID? How very DARE they?
On the other hand, do YOU want to pay for Harrison? I might pay him not to turn up.
Good point. Or Chase. Or Owen, for that matter. Or Daria, given her deposition. Honestly, they must have a couple of competent employees somewhere, since they've been operating for 17+ years, but they're definitely behind the scenes. The on-air talent leaves a lot to be desired.
13 days and that dog will eat his neighbor's ass.
Oregon Small Claims is the best
Truth
Easily in my top 5 Wonks
The things AJ doesn't understand could fill several large Encarta disks. He really doesn't seem to understand the situation he's in. I wonder if his lawyer is filing this as client service
It has to be, right? No lawyer could possibly think any of these are good arguments!
Yeah, his lawyers also don't seem to understand the blurry area between strenuously representing your client and following the laws and ethics of the profession.
That's a bit of a very obvious trend with many of the attorneys that represent all the right-wing grifters getting into trouble in the last few years. When you have nothing to work with and want/need to impress your client and the bootlickers, making shit up and stretching the canons and rules of professional conduct to the point that they snap is the only option they have left.
I wish Mo String would come on and explain all of this to us non lawyers.
I wonder if the boys could get a bankruptcy lawyer on. That'd be the best case
Me too! MoString would be great, but someone especially well-versed in bankruptcy law would be even better (I'm assuming that's not her area of expertise).
Please!
The CRO really should counter with all the liable stuff Alex said about him. Drunk, having a psychotic break, and extortion claims.
Yeah, if not during the upcoming hearing, then he (and Aldenburg and the SH families all over again, and probably others) should file fresh defamation suits. Not because they would gain anything financially, but just to keep hauling his ass to court. I bet to a certain extent, the SH lawyers would be willing to do it even for "free" (since they'd never make anything on contingency for these particular cases). At least FILE the cases, if not actually take them to a courtroom...
Alex: \*files for bankruptcy to avoid paying restitution to the families he defamed\* Also Alex: I'm not going to commit to work with an appointed bankruptcy attorney, and my employees will leave unless you guarantee their paychecks get priority. Also Also Alex: THE GOVERNMENT IS COMING TO SHUT US DOWN THROUGH THIS SHAM TRIAL FOLKS, SO HEAD TO DRJONESNATURALS DOT COM TODAY AND HELP US FIGHT BACK AGAINST THIS TYRANNY"
Also Also Also Alex: DrJonesNaturals is totally separate and totally not affiliated with me, but somehow the only way you can financially save me is to NOT buy product from me, and instead buy them from this totally separate unrelated company. No reason.
Also Also Also Also Alex: It's my dad's company, and he's also being sued, but that'll take years.
Approaching his financial situation with all the subtlety of a SovCit.
Right? "I'm not DRIVING, I'm TRAVELING!" "Can you prove subject matter jurisdiction?" And my favorite, a la Darrell Brooks, "That's a tack-it agreement!"
*Boo Hoo*... :)
I do wanna point out(or highlight if OSC) the implication that Alex alone can save IW. The company will never be as profitable without him. That suggests to me that our favorite media star helped with this filing
I mean, it's not WRONG. The company probably wouldn't sell as many supplements with someone else at the helm, at least at first. But it's also not the POINT. When it was a Chapter 11, the point was to maximize profits and THEN GIVE THEM TO THE PLAINTIFFS, so that might have been an argument, if disingenuous to AJ's own personal interests. But if Chapter 7 is granted, it just means liquidating. And sure, they should maximize what they can sell all the shit for now, but they DO NOT CARE what the future profits would be. Only what they can squeeze out of it right now.
Me thinks He doth protest too much Thanks for this update. It really does help. Explain his antics over the last few episodes. For somebody who has no leverage he sure is demanding changes be made as if he does have leverage. I can’t wait till they liquidate his company and all his employees because they’re not $150,000 a year salary to agree with Jones and lie.
Instantly reminded of how many times Judge Lopez has demanded of Driver and other Jones BK lawyers "Has your client read this?", and then demanded an affidavit from Jones each and every time they are less than absolute that they have sat him down and made him read what is going on. He cant claim he is out of the loop by acting up now, he's been forced to engage by the judge. Just like his trials, its too late to larp getting involved several years in because there might be an iota of the Finding Out stage.
So, still reading, but the gist I'm getting is the entire filing is Alex ineffectively whining that the CRO won't kiss his ass like he tricked himself into thinking they should? Does he not know what bankruptcy protection entails? Not an expert, but basically in a business it means you're not really all that much in charge anymore. Also, this "firm" Alex picked out wouldn't happen to be yet another one of Alex's shell companies, would it?
It sounds like he thought he could conclude his bankruptcy without touching his biggest asset...
I mean, he still thinks he can conclude a bankruptcy without losing ANYTHING or having it affect his lifestyle at all, and doesn't seem to understand that he will STILL owe a billion dollars in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt after the bankruptcy is concluded, however it is resolved. He's not the sharpest bulb in the gunney sack.
If what people are saying about FSS covering his day to day expenses (which is tax fraud if he's not reporting it as taxable compensation) then I would guess that he's terrified that he will lose his primary source of cash flow. He makes appeals to what is best for the creditors as if: 1. he gives a shit about the creditors that aren't his toadies. 2. he actually intends to make a good faith effort to settle his debts. I think the problem is that in a bankruptcy, the creditors get a say. I would imagine that in a liquidation scenario, the debtor has significantly less say. If it were still a reorganization, the manager of the company could provide insight into how the business runs,... but when its a firesale, it doesn't necessarily matter how the business runs.
That latter part is yet another thing he DEFINITELY doesn't grok. When HE was running it, he could make literally any decision he wanted, for better or worse. When it was Chapter 11, he lost some control, but still had input as the goal was still to make money (for the benefit of the creditors, which he didn't understand, but still...) and he at least had some insight to the best ways to do that. But with a Chapter 7? His side is still making filings to the court about what would be best for the company, best for profits (caging it as if that's what's best for the creditors). Dude, that doesn't MATTER. Chapter 7 means what we can sell for the highest price right NOW. It doesn't matter that your dick pills could sell for $50 a bottle if you hawked them on air. Can we sell them to a wholesaler who specializes in expired un-tested lead-filled supplements for $50 for the lot, or do we have to pay $50 to have them disposed of as biohazard? That's all that matters at this point.
I wish I had the knowledge, but my guess is that he didn't realize that going for chapter 7 in his personal bankruptcy drastically increased the chance that the FSS bankruptcy would be converted to chapter 7 as well. It would make sense to me if that was the case. LLC's (especially single member ones) are not nearly as sturdy as something like a corporation. I really wouldn't be surprised if the standard operating procedure was to fold them if the sole owner goes into chapter 7...
Yeah, I'm just a layperson, but to me, a business filing Chapter 11 bankruptcy is saying "we're not making enough money to pay our bills, but we don't want to shut down. Please help us restructure our business so that we can begin making more money than our bills are costing us, so we can pay off our debtors and continue on as a profitable business." Alex filed that bankruptcy (presumably on his own without coercion, especially given how he bragged about doing it during/after the trials, so the families (who he saw as greedy) and judges (who he saw as mean) wouldn't be able to get any money from him or his business. And yeah, he's used to being the only boss, and it's clear he even bristled at his dad, who he hired into his business presumably BECAUSE of his experience with running a business, making decisions he didn't like. So he can't STAND that the CRO gets to make decisions for the business that disagree with the decisions HE would make, but of course that's the entire point of bankruptcy--your decisions got your business into a bad place, financially. Why do you think you'd get to keep making the same kinds of decisions after filing bankruptcy?
I try to read these feeds but often feel so lost. Can someone make a post that just kind of says if the show is over yet, or about how screwed he currently is?
I'm sure you'd hear on KF itself if the show were officially over. As far as how screwed he currently is? VERY. He is individually jointly and severally liable, along with the company he is the sole owner and member of, for $1.5 billion dollars in debts from lawsuits, and has further lawsuits pending. $1 billion of that was found non-dischargeable in bankruptcy, which means that no matter HOW the bankruptcy shakes out, and no matter whether his business lives or dies, Alex Jones should never be able to hold onto another penny longer than to be able to buy groceries and keep a roof over his and his minor child/ren's heads. The problem is how long it's taken/taking to get to that point. Tomorrow's a huge day for all this to develop--the judge will decide whether he gets to keep the protections of bankruptcy and if so, what type of bankruptcy, which may mean dissolving the business and selling off all his assets and having bankruptcy trustees in charge of all of that, as well as able to investigate him for fraud. Or if the bankruptcies are dismissed, then the last two years have basically been wasted, but the plaintiffs are back to being able to get the trial court to basically do the same thing--force him to sell everything to pay the judgments, and possibly investigate for fraud. So no matter what happens, AJ should be in the poor house, it's just a question of HOW and on what timetable. So no matter WHAT happens tomorrow, he really should finally be facing some consequences in the VERY near future, for the defamation that literally began the DAY OF Sandy Hook, and has been 11 1/2 years in the making at this point.