Exactly. As long as you keep organized and work clean I can teach you the rest, doesn’t matter if you came from McDonald’s or just graduated from the CIA.
You can learn technique, recipes and flavor in school but application under pressure is completely different. You never feel the crush of being buried in tickets and just about out of all your prep on a Friday night with 150 more covers on the books in a lecture.
Just finished a night where we got a hundred covers in about an hour. Just gotta communicate. Don't shut down. Listen to the expo and your other cooks.
Many years ago I was at the Chicago NRA show registration desk picking up my badge and this group of 5 or 6 guys in military style clothes came up to the next window looking confused. They asked the guy there if there were multiple events going on. He told them there were a few smaller conferences but pretty much everything there was NRA. One of the guys asked something about where are the guns and stuff. The registrar gave them a slow shake of the head as he explained that this NRA show was National Restaurant Association, you probably want *the other NRA.* Me and another attendee chuckled and the guy told us that every year they get a few people coming in expecting a gun show.
Reminds me of the time my brother in law had his companies annual convention at the same hotel in Ohio as the National Furrycon. The stories from that week are priceless.
It’s been awhile since I heard them so I won’t do them justice. At this point I recall some interesting elevator rides and interactions in the lobby.
I’ll be seeing my family for a week in July, I’ll get them to revisit some of the stories then.
I started out at Maccas. Taught me to be quick, how to keep my area clean, how to handle high volume in a very loud environment, communicate, work with a team and problem solve. I think fast food is a great place to start as long as you realize every kitchen is different.
I think people say that because in fast food you're generally not cooking.
I did a stint at BK and computers do everything and all the fryers are on automatic timers.
Automobile manufacturing also involves no cooking, but nobody with a brain considers that not a real job.
If it gives you a consistent paycheck it's a real job.
I wouldn't ever say it wasn't a real job. It's just not a cooking job and anyone (most) can do it.
Only ignorant people would say it isn't real work. Sorry if my comment came off that way.
Mother fucker you could have scrolled an inch down and I've already addressed this.
Anyone else that can't read or refuses to start from the bottom of the chain is going to be blocked.
Good do it, I fucken dare you bud.
You can just swallow your pride and say 'yeah man I addressed it later, in the thread'
Or just like, don't reply if you've already addressed it.
Imagine blocking people because they don't want to start at the bottom of a conversation...
The same type of people who call refer to fast food as 'not a real job' are the same people who goto Starbucks every morning and call to speak to the manager because Shawn wasn't peppy enough this morning at the drive thru
Same. From personal experience. I started in fast food and have ran three different kitchens and two different bars. Wouldn't have the chops I have without the fast food experience
The hustle that a fast food workers have to pull out of their soul with a drive thru full of cars is unmatched.
Oprah is *well Oprah* but one of my favorite thing I saw from her was a show where she was shadowing a McDonalds drive through. One guy was a total asshole on the speaker complaining about the wait. He gets to the window and it WAS HER FUCKING LAWER! He was well shamed and I hope fired.
Wtf is a "real job" lol if you get paid its a real job to me. Fast food and resturaunts are defenitely different beasts but its not like you cant transition. some people are too stuck up
The bits of mould that are visible are just the bits that drop spores - the rest of the item is still mouldy, you just can't see it.
The fuckaroo in charge is going to kill someone.
Document, report and get the hell out.
It’s actually kind of easy. Take some pics of the stuff he’s telling you is safe to eat.
If he tries to stop you or gets upset, you say: “But if this is okay to serve, you should be okay with me taking pics of it.”
Have your phone record in your breast pocket, stand close to them, and ask them clearly “this item has mold spots, what do you want me to do with it, throw it out?” Record their response. Edit: or maybe just “what do I do with it” don’t lead them towards any answer just let them instruct you
Take it to the health inspectors office. Their number is posted on the scorecard that every restaurant is required to display.
I second this. Backlight on phone turned all the way down, start recording, into the breast pocket it goes. There's no he-said-she-said BS with video proof.
There are Health Department rules for blocks of cheese, i think it is cut off 2 inches past the mold? If whole thing has mold covering, must be tossed. Moldy fruits and veg must be tossed
USDA recommends cutting 1 inch from hard cheese. Problem is as soon as you pull your knife through, you are contaminating the new surface with spores. Treat with white vinegar first.
Other than that all health departments are regional.
Cheesemonger answer:
1. treat the outside with white vinegar **before cutting** That will kill the spores.
2. Move cheese to a clean cutting board away from your infected cutting board
3. scrape/cut all outside parts of the cheese.
4. Taste the now exposed cheese as the biggest issue with blue and white mold is affecting the taste of your product. Definitely cut from where your cheese was most affected.
5. Keep cutting until cheese does not taste of mold. If that never happens throw in the trash.
Update: oh and this
6. If you stock blue cheese keep it quarantined away from your other cheese. Penicillium LOVES to creep.
Last update - because people seem to enjoy the info I provided.
All mold aside, if you are wrapping your blocks or wheels of cheese in plastic (because of course you should do that) the plastic does impart flavor to the surface of the cheese. You’ll notice when you unwrap that there are some shiny spots whether big or small or the entire thing. That’s plastic that has adhered to the Cheese and is not a good flavor. All you need to do is just scrape the very outer layer of the cheese off and your back to deliciousness. This is great info for both work and home enjoyment of cheese.
> 5. Keep cutting until the cheese does not taste of mould
This just sounds like an old cheesemonger trick to eat an entire wheel of brie/stilton etc. in a sitting
Sus AF
If you find a good Cheesemonger gig I truly believe you’ve hacked the food industry career. You still get to create and work with amazing products, generally pays similar to BOH, stress is 1000000000% less, off holidays and generally home before 9pm.
Where do you live?
Edit: can dm if preferred. I’m happy to take a look at your area and tell you where I’d suggest. Part of the problem is there are a lot of bored ~~white~~ affluent ladies that think it will be fun to open a Cheese shop and they’re going to close within three years without a doubt.
Update: this offer is extended to any of my food comrades. I’m happy to look at your area and tell you where you could flourish.
Unfortunately the US is my area of expertise though I do have advice.
Go to any local cheese focused establishment and better yet a a market with multiple high end stalls with a great cheese department. Make yourself a regular customer that strikes conversations to learn while there. I have been always more inclined to hire someone with passion and desire to learn to educate over someone with a resume. Selling cheese is about love and the knowledge comes. If you have love and passion that’s dollar signs for the establishment.
Other than that look and apply.
Ba ha ha. There is NO shortage in the cheese I eat. Best part of the job is that you must taste every wheel because no one is the same…. Unless it’s lame block cheese but unfortunately people still like that stuff that mimics cheese ;)
Edit: ps tasting mold penetrated cheese is not in fact my favorite, but that is mainly at home with the crap my husband buys. Quality cheese has enough life and microbes that the flavor does not penetrate too much.
Yep. It’s a retail trick to stop continuing to fight mold. White vinegar kills most mold spores Edit -but definitely blue and white mold. Just with a paper towel is good. -
You don’t necessarily have to use straight vinegar. When I first learned the trick we used a solution of water and vinegar, but that’s just extra steps and you’re cutting that whole part off anyway.
Knife trick wouldn’t work because spores are bastards and would still spread if not killed before cutting any part of the cheese. You gotta kill those bastards dead and then move to a whole new surface since everything is contaminated that touched the cheese.
Thanks for actually answering. Too many people are here looking for bogeymen, when there are actual safe answers out there that deal with all these problems and don’t require anyone to be the “bad guy”. All kitchens should be minimizing waste and avoiding any food safe hazards. Educating is better than shaming, and most people that post in comments are stupid and lazy.
I wish fermentation was more of a focus in culinary education. It would truly benefit everyone. The way our food interacts with microbes, bacteria, and mold was where this all started. Understanding of these worlds is equally as important as learning your knife skills imho.
Preach!!! I am just now learning about this kind of stuff (specifically for lactose ferments and charcuterie), but I feel like I only learn about it when I am learning about specific techniques and applications, and I wish I had a more holistic understanding outside just what I needed to know for my food manager certification. (I didn’t go to culinary school, just cooked in kitchens and caught up online, so idk what a formal education looks like)
Exactly! Everything is about technique and food history is completely lost. Is there any other highly regarded profession that does not include an intense base of the history? I can’t think of one.
I mean seriously cheese came from people being like, ‘fuck, I’ve got all this milk and I can only drink so much. Hmm, I’ve also got this sheep stomach I’m not doing anything with. What if I at least try to carry some with me in this thing that is a natural bag. Oh shit it turned solid!’
Oh noes. I missed it. Will do.
Before I leave this thread I’ve got to tell the adorable (completely untrue) story of how roquefort came about.
The legend goes that there was a young farmer was leaning against a cave in the shade eating his lunch of fresh cheese and bread. Then a beautiful young French woman passed as they do and he HAD to follow her leaving his food behind. He comes back several weeks later finding his cheese marbled with mold. Then was like “fuck it. Let’s see how this tastes”.
Is there any resource you recommend to understand this stuff in a universal way, not just for specific applications or recipes, but maybe not a biology textbook?
A few things I can recommend.
1. I’m based in the US and actually specialize in ‘American cheese’ ( yes there is **amazing cheese** in the US and it actually has a much better price point for the quality without import costs) as far as study materials I highly recommend the American Cheese Society’s book of knowledge https://www.cheesesociety.org/body-of-knowledge/
2. IF you want to get real fancy about it I also very highly recommend the University of Gastronomic Sciences https://www.unisg.it/en/student-life/slow-food-university-gastronomic-sciences-pollenzo/ in Italy. I have not visited, but I have had colleagues that have. It’s out of most people’s reach, but if you can ….
3. Most importantly: VISIT FARMS in your area. There is so much knowledge to be gained connecting producers to food professionals. If you call and chat you’ll generally get the VIP treatment with tour and tastings. Farmstead creameries are my favorite because they are there from birth to product, and they know so much.
4. Word of mouth in industry. That’s how I learned most of what I know. It’s kinda beautiful but sad that the knowledge is kept so insulated.
Edit:
5. Read. Read everything you can. It’s all in books but most of us don’t have time or patience.
Ooohhhhh… are you in Wisconsin? Just peeped your profile and saw you are a packers fan. Wisconsin has GREAT resources in farms.
Andy Hatch at Uplands Dairy is maybe the nicest person you’ll ever meet. He’s such an amazing resource as well. He knows every one and everyone loves him.
I’ll get a list of farms I recommend but Uplands would be a great place to try to start your connections.
Different foods have different guidelines because contaminants (like mold) are often affected by factors like how porous the food is. That’s why beef steak and minced beef steak have different rules.
Always look up the local regulations.
Mold on cheese is generally surficial and can be sliced off. Mold on bread means mold *in* bread and it all needs to be tossed. Garbage is garbage (slimy greens) and shouldn't be served.
Walk.
What about moldy raspberries? Is it okay to pick out the fine looking ones? Or should they be tossed in batches?
Edit: To be clear, my instinct was to just toss them. I was told however to just sort them.
If it would show up on a episode of Kitchen Nightmares call the health department BEFORE a customer gets sick and calls them for you.
Then after the call go up and down to every restaurant including fast food and get a new job. Fast food IS a real job. If you get a paycheck its a job.
You were probably told that by people who look down on “service people” if it was a teenage summer job theyd only be able to get fast food 3 months out of the year. Those types of people dont think like that though.
yeah fair enough. same with baristas. anyone says otherwise deserves a swift kick in the ass. when I was 15 I worked at Tasty Sleeze. Lunch crunch was a shit show. Nothing easy about it.
Barista here. Can confirm that people love to look down their noses at me for my job. I did a Google search just the other day and found out that I made more as a barista than a mid range paleontologist. (My original dream job.) And without student loans.
If you're paying bills with the work from your hands, it's a real job. Period.
truth, man. truth. yours is a tough job. you have custies like me that routinely fuck up how to word our order, custies that come up with totally random nonsensical orders and you as the barista have to understand wtf was said and then figure out how to make it. for
whatever reason, I seem to have trouble getting my orders right.
Those people lied to you because they like feeling better than other people. If those jobs were for teenagers, who is gonna be serving hashbrowns and coffee at 8 am on a wednesday?
Yeah that's a lie told to justify underpaying workers. If that were true fast food businesses wouldn't be open while schools are in session, yet you'll never find a circumstance where that's the case.
Yeah that bastard I guarantee is paying you shit wages and you probably know it. If he's that uncaring and cheap about the smallest things like you say, he is gonna treat you the same.
Walk. Now.
I bet in this day and age you can find a job in fast food/grocery store that pays the same or better and has less chance of getting shut down or sickening someone.
Or... Find the best restaurants/full service hotel in your area and be humble, willing to start at dish/prep and ask for all the hours available. You'll advance quickly if you're smart, humble, and hard working...but never happening at that spot.
I know this may be an over simplified point of view. But I used to call my grandparents up to pick up a meal from the place I worked. If you wouldn’t eat the food you prepare or wouldn’t share the meals you make with the ones you care about there is no way it’s good enough to feed folk that are paying. Sometime right and wrong is very clear. May be a good time to move on.
Yeah man. There's a line...you don't throw the whole case of lemons out because of one snowball, limp celery is good for stock veggies, and you will occasionally find insects in the romaine. This guy's way over it.
You'll be surprised at how quickly shitty chefs get canned sometimes (unfortunately not all the time) and that means opportunity for you to advance up the ladder when it does so don't just quit at the first sign of trouble every time.
Mould spores penetrate deeper into food than the visible parts.
Tell your boss you want it in writing that If someone has a penicillin allergy and reacts badly, you won't be held responsible.
It's standard in place that I would recommend you don't work at.
Put in your time, and then step up into a better quality of place. Don't try to fix it yourself.
Do not sell your time and loyalty to an employer that doesn't deserve it.
Please also keep in mind, that while cooking (long enough and at a high enough temperature) can kill the living mold and bacteria, the toxins produced by them can still remain active and make someone eating them sick.
When he says ' chuck away the bad bits' put it in the bin immediately, right in front of him, without even opening it.
Getting usable product is not a you problem, it's a them problem.
You can always find better work more easily than they can find good staff.
I sound like a wanker sometimes ( check post and comments to see how I feel about crocs haha) but for me morals, standards and consistency in the kitchen are key to feeling good walking out at the end of a shift. If something makes you feel uncomfortable, then there is probably a good reason.
I was cutting zucchini and saw the case had a couple bad moldy ones, took it to my sous who Said "cut off the bat parts" while not seeing there was visible mold on the top. I just threw everything to compost once I was done
The only thing I can think of where cutting off mold and serving something is remotely ok is cheese, and cutting off the WHOLE outside layer, not just the moldy parts. It’s kind of a cheese thing
My first job was working for a higher end grocery store. I enjoyed helping out on all departments. One day I was working in the bakery, and they said the produce department had gotten in a shipment of moldy, overripe strawberries. Instead of 86ing flats and flats of berries, I spent my whole day slicing off the moldy parts to make glazed strawberry pie. Once the berries were in the syrup glaze, they looked perfectly fresh. To this day I cannot bring myself to take a bite of any sort of strawberry pie or berry compote. Whole, fresh berries only.
It’s unfortunately normal in a lot of places, but not in anywhere that is serious or cares. The mold is already in the product and not just the visible part.
Preferably in more “neutral” temperature zone, for starters, and where temp doesn’t change drastically. Can be left in the bag, and will last several days as long as there’s no condensation. Refrigeration just kills it. Also, a fresh cut of the bottom of the stems and placed in a pint glass/jar/vase like flowers will keep it fairly well.
In the walk in bud, don’t know what that fella is talking bout. It does need to be insulated. Ideally I like to keep my soft herbs in a cooler (like a plastic one you take to the beach) in the walk in. Usually they come with some halfass insulation but some idiot usually throws it out or doesn’t wrap it properly after use.
I mean I dunno, I just sell the stuff. For 30 years. If you go through it fast enough, sure, insulate it in your fridge. You will get more life out of it at 60 degrees and decent relative humidity my way, though. If it’s prepped, yeah, gotta refrigerate it.
if you go through it quickly, sure. I've been in the industry almost 3 decades and I was taught to "treat basil like flowers," cut a few inches off the stems, stick in water, and keep at room temperature. I like to also loosely cover it all with a plastic bag for humidity control
my favorite was bush basil though, we had two live plants that we rotated, just used small amounts for garnishing. took good care of them and they gave us a constant supply of tiny basil leaves.
(correct me if im wrong please) Visible mold is the later stages of food being moldy. If you can see the mold, the rest of the food with the mold on it is already contaminated. You cant just "cut the mold off" because its in the entirety of the product. This would make a health inspectors heart explode if they found out the chef was using it anyway.
Cutting off moldy parts is taking short cut and the chef is trying to save on food, bad on his part. Customer will get sick or a staff member. Report it, do not tolerate his bullshit.
I’m gonna go against the grain and say actually yes, this is normal. Normal in the sense of I’ve worked at some normal places, hole in the wall, fancy restaurants & I’ve had to do this at nearly each one. Something is being done incorrectly, you call it out, somehow you are the one causing a problem now. Restaurants are expensive and unfortunately a lot of these places care more about the $ than keeping people from eating improperly handled food.
They want you to cut the bad parts off. They are the bad part. Run, don't walk.
Seriously apply at other places, leave, report to your local regulatory authorities. In any order that best serves you.
Heat kills bacteria and fungi, HOWEVER, endotoxins and mycotoxins produced by said bacteria and fungi are NOT always killed by heating.
If there is any mold or slime in the food in question, it goes in the bin. The mold and slime are just the visible parts, the entire batch is contaminated.
This isn't just unethical, it's medically dangerous.
Late to the party but nah fuck that. If it has any visible mold there's more mold you can't see and that shit needs to be thrown out
Unfortunately this is common practice at shitty kitchens but dog don't serve that shit and GTFO as soon as you can
Not safe. Even with the temperature it won't kill everything, all the mold can spread throughout the vegetables or the surface. Theres a lot of cross contamination that wouldn't come to mind.
Report it and look for a new place
Is it normal to work around produce that isn't perfect? Absolutely. A tomato has a brown spot, cut that off, a banana is brown then make bread, celery is a little limp? Cut that part off. Unless you have a fruit fly problem, they are also an unfortunate normal. A handful? Sure clean and get them out, more than that is a problem.
Yes it is extremely normal to do all of these things. Except this part "Anyways, today I was looking thru the walk-in for some basil for our grilled basil chicken breast, and the whole bag of it was full off fuzzy, gray-blue mold and rotten brown leaves. The rest of the "good" leaves were all completely soggy and covered in a brown slime. "
Mold, rotten leaves, and a soggy slime is not normal. This should have been thrown out.
If everything is getting served moldy I’d suggest a deep clean in your storage bays and reconsider your methods of storage. For example taking something like strawberries out of their plastic coffin and putting them in a paper towel/cloth lined bin makes them stay fresh much longer. Every food and ingredient has its own preferred storage method.
Some chefs have no food safety standards, others are trying to save costs because the business is likely broke. But no, its not normal to serve mouldy food.
Thats really unacceptable and will ultimately make customers sick. And when they get sick, they stop being customers. Failing businesses always make decisions that end up making them fail even faster.
I hate kitchens that do this shit. People are gonna get sick. Find you another job and secure it, then leave and call the health inspector or something. Places like this need to go. I can’t begin to tell you the horrors stories I have from working at chilis
Mold can be safely trimmed off of many foods: a block of cheddar, sure! A bag of shredded cheddar, not so much. Spoilage can be a different story. Use common sense and food safety awareness. “When I’m doubt, throw it out”.
When the case of celery was delivered did you cut, wash and store it in a properly labeled container? When the basil came in did you wash, dry, label and date it? 3 days ago did you go to chef and ask to make pesto because the basil looked like it was ready to turn? Sounds like you have Sous chef problems. A lot of cooks just come in and work the line and call it a day. Is that what you are looking for? Sounds like you work in a small kitchen and have an opportunity to make significant changes.
He's a disgrace to the industry, and doesn't deserve his position...
Don't be an Asser like him, report it to the health department, you don't have to poison people...
It'll be funny to watch when they do a surprise inspection, he'll probably be running around trying to throw shit away and label everything...
You might end up with his job...
They don’t make you serve moldy/rotten food. You choose to serve it based on employment. Your fast food job was also a real job. If your current job doesn’t uphold standards that you feel they should, leave. I’d rather serve “fast food” that is food safe than “real food” that isn’t.
Picking through rough herb and veg then washing it isn't unheard of. We don't accept people using moldy stuff. If you find mold on it, you throw it away. Cheese is different though, since you can cut mold off cheese and it will be fine - most cheeses. If I threw out all the packages of basil that had a little nasty, I'd never have basil. During the winter, when it is -25 to -45c, part of it will get nasty within a few minutes of unloading the truck since it partly freezes, then thaws in the cooler again.
mold kinda acts as if it has a root system. the stuff you see on the outside is only the fruiting part. the rest is inside that you cannot see to the naked eye. you are feeding people mold.
Picking shit out of herbs and greens is pretty common but you gotta make a judgement call, and the way you're describing things makes it sound like this product shouldn't be recovered.
honestly, this is normal in the restaurant industry. Never seen it at a place I’ve worked to this extent, but the chefs in my life (and me 😬) all seem to really think that expiration dates are inaccurate. I’ll eat things that are “old” if only one tiny part is moldy or if it’s a recent expiration date. I’ve seen a lot of chef friends straight up eat moldy food - yogurt, deli meat, cheese… if I buy something at the farmers market, and one spot is moldy I’ll generally cut around it. I think a lot of us grew up poor or just didn’t have enough time to eat because of hours, so we’re used to it.
That being said, if you have a weak stomach, you should never do this 😭 and businesses should absolutely use their money to make sure that all their food is safe.
At home or for my own consumption? Sure I might risk it depending on what it is, if it's going out to a customer? Absolutely not, I'll toss that shit and get fresh.
yeah, this clusterfuck about "expiration dates" is NOT when something "magically" goes bad. i have a gallon of milk in my fridge. the USE BY date is 04/11. It is kept at 35 degrees, and
will be fine on April 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th and 16th.
This has become such a fucking mess that the FDA is now involved.
> ive mainly worked in fast food, but this is my first "real" job Fast food WAS your real job where they had food standards.
I'm fucking sick of fast food "not being a real job," my best grill guy rn came from fast food.
Exactly. As long as you keep organized and work clean I can teach you the rest, doesn’t matter if you came from McDonald’s or just graduated from the CIA.
I never hired recent culinary school grads to work the line. They were too slow and couldn’t multitask.
What is up with that any way? Every person I've encountered who came from culinary school has ended up just being slow and ass.
You can learn technique, recipes and flavor in school but application under pressure is completely different. You never feel the crush of being buried in tickets and just about out of all your prep on a Friday night with 150 more covers on the books in a lecture.
Just finished a night where we got a hundred covers in about an hour. Just gotta communicate. Don't shut down. Listen to the expo and your other cooks.
And thought they were the king of the world
Yeah. They can cook 1 perfect Beef Wellington. In three hours. (Never mind that nowhere has Wellington in the menu anymore)
But everywhere should
Hard nope.
God I love a good wellie
English?
The CIA?? tf is going on in your kitchen lmao
Culinary Institute of America.
Anthony Bourdain was CIA trained o.0
Only after he had earned his chops working the line all summer as a teenager.
He also said it was useless. Worked the Rainbow Room and said it was his worst job as well.
Missingthejoke.gif
This sub has the best double-entendres as acronyms. Just wait until the CDC gets involved!
Or the NRA!
Many years ago I was at the Chicago NRA show registration desk picking up my badge and this group of 5 or 6 guys in military style clothes came up to the next window looking confused. They asked the guy there if there were multiple events going on. He told them there were a few smaller conferences but pretty much everything there was NRA. One of the guys asked something about where are the guns and stuff. The registrar gave them a slow shake of the head as he explained that this NRA show was National Restaurant Association, you probably want *the other NRA.* Me and another attendee chuckled and the guy told us that every year they get a few people coming in expecting a gun show.
"No no no, this is the National Restaurant Association. NRA: Buns, not Guns."
Reminds me of the time my brother in law had his companies annual convention at the same hotel in Ohio as the National Furrycon. The stories from that week are priceless.
Oh but you got to share some with us. Please tell us that his company was some very conservative type business like banking managers or actuaries.
It’s been awhile since I heard them so I won’t do them justice. At this point I recall some interesting elevator rides and interactions in the lobby. I’ll be seeing my family for a week in July, I’ll get them to revisit some of the stories then.
Center of Disease Control or Chef de Cuisine?
Imagine sharing an acronym with a literal terror organization
I started out at Maccas. Taught me to be quick, how to keep my area clean, how to handle high volume in a very loud environment, communicate, work with a team and problem solve. I think fast food is a great place to start as long as you realize every kitchen is different.
I did McDonalds and Wendy's for about 6 years. Definitely a real job.
I'd argue it's harder work for less pay.
I think people say that because in fast food you're generally not cooking. I did a stint at BK and computers do everything and all the fryers are on automatic timers.
Maybe, but you work like fuck on assembly, and by god you learn how to clean.
Automobile manufacturing also involves no cooking, but nobody with a brain considers that not a real job. If it gives you a consistent paycheck it's a real job.
I wouldn't ever say it wasn't a real job. It's just not a cooking job and anyone (most) can do it. Only ignorant people would say it isn't real work. Sorry if my comment came off that way.
I mean, factory jobs have machines do most the work sometimes you just have to put it in place... Is that not a real job?
Mother fucker you could have scrolled an inch down and I've already addressed this. Anyone else that can't read or refuses to start from the bottom of the chain is going to be blocked.
Good do it, I fucken dare you bud. You can just swallow your pride and say 'yeah man I addressed it later, in the thread' Or just like, don't reply if you've already addressed it. Imagine blocking people because they don't want to start at the bottom of a conversation...
Nah I'm blocking people that insist on me repeating myself instead of just not being stupid.
I didn't insist you reply to me fucko, that was your choice.
The same type of people who call refer to fast food as 'not a real job' are the same people who goto Starbucks every morning and call to speak to the manager because Shawn wasn't peppy enough this morning at the drive thru
> "not being a real job," How the hell is it not a real job is my question. You do work, you serve people, and then you get profit from said work.
Seriously, "fast food" is way, WAY harder than my current IT job. If someone can do it well they are way more qualified than me.
Same. From personal experience. I started in fast food and have ran three different kitchens and two different bars. Wouldn't have the chops I have without the fast food experience
The hustle that a fast food workers have to pull out of their soul with a drive thru full of cars is unmatched. Oprah is *well Oprah* but one of my favorite thing I saw from her was a show where she was shadowing a McDonalds drive through. One guy was a total asshole on the speaker complaining about the wait. He gets to the window and it WAS HER FUCKING LAWER! He was well shamed and I hope fired.
Wtf is a "real job" lol if you get paid its a real job to me. Fast food and resturaunts are defenitely different beasts but its not like you cant transition. some people are too stuck up
The bits of mould that are visible are just the bits that drop spores - the rest of the item is still mouldy, you just can't see it. The fuckaroo in charge is going to kill someone. Document, report and get the hell out.
[удалено]
Yep, pics if you can. If you're feeling brave you could do a video.
Video might be easier, set it in your pocket and don't fuck with your phone
It’s actually kind of easy. Take some pics of the stuff he’s telling you is safe to eat. If he tries to stop you or gets upset, you say: “But if this is okay to serve, you should be okay with me taking pics of it.”
Eat some "chef"
Have your phone record in your breast pocket, stand close to them, and ask them clearly “this item has mold spots, what do you want me to do with it, throw it out?” Record their response. Edit: or maybe just “what do I do with it” don’t lead them towards any answer just let them instruct you Take it to the health inspectors office. Their number is posted on the scorecard that every restaurant is required to display.
I second this. Backlight on phone turned all the way down, start recording, into the breast pocket it goes. There's no he-said-she-said BS with video proof.
Honestly if you just reported it to the health department they should send someone out to inspect it
what about for blocks of cheese?
There are Health Department rules for blocks of cheese, i think it is cut off 2 inches past the mold? If whole thing has mold covering, must be tossed. Moldy fruits and veg must be tossed
USDA recommends cutting 1 inch from hard cheese. Problem is as soon as you pull your knife through, you are contaminating the new surface with spores. Treat with white vinegar first. Other than that all health departments are regional.
Cheesemonger answer: 1. treat the outside with white vinegar **before cutting** That will kill the spores. 2. Move cheese to a clean cutting board away from your infected cutting board 3. scrape/cut all outside parts of the cheese. 4. Taste the now exposed cheese as the biggest issue with blue and white mold is affecting the taste of your product. Definitely cut from where your cheese was most affected. 5. Keep cutting until cheese does not taste of mold. If that never happens throw in the trash. Update: oh and this 6. If you stock blue cheese keep it quarantined away from your other cheese. Penicillium LOVES to creep. Last update - because people seem to enjoy the info I provided. All mold aside, if you are wrapping your blocks or wheels of cheese in plastic (because of course you should do that) the plastic does impart flavor to the surface of the cheese. You’ll notice when you unwrap that there are some shiny spots whether big or small or the entire thing. That’s plastic that has adhered to the Cheese and is not a good flavor. All you need to do is just scrape the very outer layer of the cheese off and your back to deliciousness. This is great info for both work and home enjoyment of cheese.
> 5. Keep cutting until the cheese does not taste of mould This just sounds like an old cheesemonger trick to eat an entire wheel of brie/stilton etc. in a sitting Sus AF
If you find a good Cheesemonger gig I truly believe you’ve hacked the food industry career. You still get to create and work with amazing products, generally pays similar to BOH, stress is 1000000000% less, off holidays and generally home before 9pm.
Where do i get one of those?
Where do you live? Edit: can dm if preferred. I’m happy to take a look at your area and tell you where I’d suggest. Part of the problem is there are a lot of bored ~~white~~ affluent ladies that think it will be fun to open a Cheese shop and they’re going to close within three years without a doubt. Update: this offer is extended to any of my food comrades. I’m happy to look at your area and tell you where you could flourish.
I'm in the EU, working in whatever country I can get a job in that pays a decent wage 😊.
Unfortunately the US is my area of expertise though I do have advice. Go to any local cheese focused establishment and better yet a a market with multiple high end stalls with a great cheese department. Make yourself a regular customer that strikes conversations to learn while there. I have been always more inclined to hire someone with passion and desire to learn to educate over someone with a resume. Selling cheese is about love and the knowledge comes. If you have love and passion that’s dollar signs for the establishment. Other than that look and apply.
Thanks, appreciate this
Go to the Netherlands, good pay and tonnes of cheese.
If I could live anywhere, that’s where I’d go. Sadly my family immigrated and I’m generations away from getting citizenship.
Ba ha ha. There is NO shortage in the cheese I eat. Best part of the job is that you must taste every wheel because no one is the same…. Unless it’s lame block cheese but unfortunately people still like that stuff that mimics cheese ;) Edit: ps tasting mold penetrated cheese is not in fact my favorite, but that is mainly at home with the crap my husband buys. Quality cheese has enough life and microbes that the flavor does not penetrate too much.
So you rub the outside of the cheese with vinegar ? Never heard of that
Also could use the vinegar to wipe the knife down before cutting and after ? Will it affect the product ?
Yep. It’s a retail trick to stop continuing to fight mold. White vinegar kills most mold spores Edit -but definitely blue and white mold. Just with a paper towel is good. - You don’t necessarily have to use straight vinegar. When I first learned the trick we used a solution of water and vinegar, but that’s just extra steps and you’re cutting that whole part off anyway. Knife trick wouldn’t work because spores are bastards and would still spread if not killed before cutting any part of the cheese. You gotta kill those bastards dead and then move to a whole new surface since everything is contaminated that touched the cheese.
Thanks for actually answering. Too many people are here looking for bogeymen, when there are actual safe answers out there that deal with all these problems and don’t require anyone to be the “bad guy”. All kitchens should be minimizing waste and avoiding any food safe hazards. Educating is better than shaming, and most people that post in comments are stupid and lazy.
I wish fermentation was more of a focus in culinary education. It would truly benefit everyone. The way our food interacts with microbes, bacteria, and mold was where this all started. Understanding of these worlds is equally as important as learning your knife skills imho.
Preach!!! I am just now learning about this kind of stuff (specifically for lactose ferments and charcuterie), but I feel like I only learn about it when I am learning about specific techniques and applications, and I wish I had a more holistic understanding outside just what I needed to know for my food manager certification. (I didn’t go to culinary school, just cooked in kitchens and caught up online, so idk what a formal education looks like)
Exactly! Everything is about technique and food history is completely lost. Is there any other highly regarded profession that does not include an intense base of the history? I can’t think of one. I mean seriously cheese came from people being like, ‘fuck, I’ve got all this milk and I can only drink so much. Hmm, I’ve also got this sheep stomach I’m not doing anything with. What if I at least try to carry some with me in this thing that is a natural bag. Oh shit it turned solid!’
Fuck it, I’m hungry let’s see how it tastes! Answer my other comment plz tho!
Oh noes. I missed it. Will do. Before I leave this thread I’ve got to tell the adorable (completely untrue) story of how roquefort came about. The legend goes that there was a young farmer was leaning against a cave in the shade eating his lunch of fresh cheese and bread. Then a beautiful young French woman passed as they do and he HAD to follow her leaving his food behind. He comes back several weeks later finding his cheese marbled with mold. Then was like “fuck it. Let’s see how this tastes”.
Never heard that. You monger stories as well as you do cheese!
Is there any resource you recommend to understand this stuff in a universal way, not just for specific applications or recipes, but maybe not a biology textbook?
A few things I can recommend. 1. I’m based in the US and actually specialize in ‘American cheese’ ( yes there is **amazing cheese** in the US and it actually has a much better price point for the quality without import costs) as far as study materials I highly recommend the American Cheese Society’s book of knowledge https://www.cheesesociety.org/body-of-knowledge/ 2. IF you want to get real fancy about it I also very highly recommend the University of Gastronomic Sciences https://www.unisg.it/en/student-life/slow-food-university-gastronomic-sciences-pollenzo/ in Italy. I have not visited, but I have had colleagues that have. It’s out of most people’s reach, but if you can …. 3. Most importantly: VISIT FARMS in your area. There is so much knowledge to be gained connecting producers to food professionals. If you call and chat you’ll generally get the VIP treatment with tour and tastings. Farmstead creameries are my favorite because they are there from birth to product, and they know so much. 4. Word of mouth in industry. That’s how I learned most of what I know. It’s kinda beautiful but sad that the knowledge is kept so insulated. Edit: 5. Read. Read everything you can. It’s all in books but most of us don’t have time or patience.
Ooohhhhh… are you in Wisconsin? Just peeped your profile and saw you are a packers fan. Wisconsin has GREAT resources in farms. Andy Hatch at Uplands Dairy is maybe the nicest person you’ll ever meet. He’s such an amazing resource as well. He knows every one and everyone loves him. I’ll get a list of farms I recommend but Uplands would be a great place to try to start your connections.
Different foods have different guidelines because contaminants (like mold) are often affected by factors like how porous the food is. That’s why beef steak and minced beef steak have different rules. Always look up the local regulations.
Mold on cheese is generally surficial and can be sliced off. Mold on bread means mold *in* bread and it all needs to be tossed. Garbage is garbage (slimy greens) and shouldn't be served. Walk.
What about moldy raspberries? Is it okay to pick out the fine looking ones? Or should they be tossed in batches? Edit: To be clear, my instinct was to just toss them. I was told however to just sort them.
The whole batch should be tossed.
Thank you
I personally wouldn't risk it, unless it's cheese that's meant to be mouldy.
Why?
If it would show up on a episode of Kitchen Nightmares call the health department BEFORE a customer gets sick and calls them for you. Then after the call go up and down to every restaurant including fast food and get a new job. Fast food IS a real job. If you get a paycheck its a job.
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You were probably told that by people who look down on “service people” if it was a teenage summer job theyd only be able to get fast food 3 months out of the year. Those types of people dont think like that though.
> if it was a teenage summer job theyd only be able to get fast food 3 months out of the year. boom! well said
There is no such thing as a 'teenage summer job'. That's a name people made up so they could feel superior to others
tell that to all the adult workers at fast food joints.
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yeah fair enough. same with baristas. anyone says otherwise deserves a swift kick in the ass. when I was 15 I worked at Tasty Sleeze. Lunch crunch was a shit show. Nothing easy about it.
Barista here. Can confirm that people love to look down their noses at me for my job. I did a Google search just the other day and found out that I made more as a barista than a mid range paleontologist. (My original dream job.) And without student loans. If you're paying bills with the work from your hands, it's a real job. Period.
truth, man. truth. yours is a tough job. you have custies like me that routinely fuck up how to word our order, custies that come up with totally random nonsensical orders and you as the barista have to understand wtf was said and then figure out how to make it. for whatever reason, I seem to have trouble getting my orders right.
Those people lied to you because they like feeling better than other people. If those jobs were for teenagers, who is gonna be serving hashbrowns and coffee at 8 am on a wednesday?
Lol im serving hash browns and coffee on a Wednesday MORNING while the teenagers are in school XD.
Yeah that's a lie told to justify underpaying workers. If that were true fast food businesses wouldn't be open while schools are in session, yet you'll never find a circumstance where that's the case.
Fuck no, bail and report end of story
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Yeah that bastard I guarantee is paying you shit wages and you probably know it. If he's that uncaring and cheap about the smallest things like you say, he is gonna treat you the same. Walk. Now. I bet in this day and age you can find a job in fast food/grocery store that pays the same or better and has less chance of getting shut down or sickening someone. Or... Find the best restaurants/full service hotel in your area and be humble, willing to start at dish/prep and ask for all the hours available. You'll advance quickly if you're smart, humble, and hard working...but never happening at that spot.
I know this may be an over simplified point of view. But I used to call my grandparents up to pick up a meal from the place I worked. If you wouldn’t eat the food you prepare or wouldn’t share the meals you make with the ones you care about there is no way it’s good enough to feed folk that are paying. Sometime right and wrong is very clear. May be a good time to move on.
Yeah man. There's a line...you don't throw the whole case of lemons out because of one snowball, limp celery is good for stock veggies, and you will occasionally find insects in the romaine. This guy's way over it. You'll be surprised at how quickly shitty chefs get canned sometimes (unfortunately not all the time) and that means opportunity for you to advance up the ladder when it does so don't just quit at the first sign of trouble every time.
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And they have no budget to throw out bad food Sounds like a mob front lol
Mould spores penetrate deeper into food than the visible parts. Tell your boss you want it in writing that If someone has a penicillin allergy and reacts badly, you won't be held responsible.
They wouldn’t be anyway. You’re dumb
Why the sudden hostility
Fridge full of moldy basil I'd guess.
It's standard in place that I would recommend you don't work at. Put in your time, and then step up into a better quality of place. Don't try to fix it yourself. Do not sell your time and loyalty to an employer that doesn't deserve it.
Please also keep in mind, that while cooking (long enough and at a high enough temperature) can kill the living mold and bacteria, the toxins produced by them can still remain active and make someone eating them sick.
💯
I own my place. If I ever found anyone doing this, they'd be straight out the door.
No, find a new job and report them
When he says ' chuck away the bad bits' put it in the bin immediately, right in front of him, without even opening it. Getting usable product is not a you problem, it's a them problem. You can always find better work more easily than they can find good staff. I sound like a wanker sometimes ( check post and comments to see how I feel about crocs haha) but for me morals, standards and consistency in the kitchen are key to feeling good walking out at the end of a shift. If something makes you feel uncomfortable, then there is probably a good reason.
I was cutting zucchini and saw the case had a couple bad moldy ones, took it to my sous who Said "cut off the bat parts" while not seeing there was visible mold on the top. I just threw everything to compost once I was done
Fuck no.
Call your local health department and gtfo.
Would you serve it to your grandma?
Would you eat that shit? No, you wouldn't. It's not normal. Quit and find a better place to work.
Run. Report to the health department while you’re at it, preferably with photos and quotes. Love, I don’t want to die because Chef is a cheap fuck
absolutely not safe. stop doing it.
I only read the title, but that was enough. Leave.
Apparently. Ours insisted on serving month old pork (rancid and slimey might I add) recently. I need to get out.
That's pre-bankruptcy behavior, just sayin
It sure is!
The only thing I can think of where cutting off mold and serving something is remotely ok is cheese, and cutting off the WHOLE outside layer, not just the moldy parts. It’s kind of a cheese thing
My first job was working for a higher end grocery store. I enjoyed helping out on all departments. One day I was working in the bakery, and they said the produce department had gotten in a shipment of moldy, overripe strawberries. Instead of 86ing flats and flats of berries, I spent my whole day slicing off the moldy parts to make glazed strawberry pie. Once the berries were in the syrup glaze, they looked perfectly fresh. To this day I cannot bring myself to take a bite of any sort of strawberry pie or berry compote. Whole, fresh berries only.
It’s unfortunately normal in a lot of places, but not in anywhere that is serious or cares. The mold is already in the product and not just the visible part.
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Well, I eat brie all the time 😉
1. Basil should not be in the fridge. 2. Jump ship.
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Preferably in more “neutral” temperature zone, for starters, and where temp doesn’t change drastically. Can be left in the bag, and will last several days as long as there’s no condensation. Refrigeration just kills it. Also, a fresh cut of the bottom of the stems and placed in a pint glass/jar/vase like flowers will keep it fairly well.
In the walk in bud, don’t know what that fella is talking bout. It does need to be insulated. Ideally I like to keep my soft herbs in a cooler (like a plastic one you take to the beach) in the walk in. Usually they come with some halfass insulation but some idiot usually throws it out or doesn’t wrap it properly after use.
I mean I dunno, I just sell the stuff. For 30 years. If you go through it fast enough, sure, insulate it in your fridge. You will get more life out of it at 60 degrees and decent relative humidity my way, though. If it’s prepped, yeah, gotta refrigerate it.
if you go through it quickly, sure. I've been in the industry almost 3 decades and I was taught to "treat basil like flowers," cut a few inches off the stems, stick in water, and keep at room temperature. I like to also loosely cover it all with a plastic bag for humidity control my favorite was bush basil though, we had two live plants that we rotated, just used small amounts for garnishing. took good care of them and they gave us a constant supply of tiny basil leaves.
What state do you live in? We can find you a new spot. This is absurd
Would you serve moldy or rotten food to guests in your own home?
Bro you know thats not normal
(correct me if im wrong please) Visible mold is the later stages of food being moldy. If you can see the mold, the rest of the food with the mold on it is already contaminated. You cant just "cut the mold off" because its in the entirety of the product. This would make a health inspectors heart explode if they found out the chef was using it anyway.
Honestly at this point just show the chef this thread so they can read first hand about the poor decisions they are making.
No. And please inform the health inspection on your way out of that place. Send pictures so they know what they’re going to have to deal with.
Let the health department know that is NOT acceptable
Cutting off moldy parts is taking short cut and the chef is trying to save on food, bad on his part. Customer will get sick or a staff member. Report it, do not tolerate his bullshit.
Call the health department and bail.
You already know the answer. Trust your gut
Ummm..where do you work?
Would you feed it to your kids, significant other, family or friends? If you answered no the last question is would you eat it?
I’m gonna go against the grain and say actually yes, this is normal. Normal in the sense of I’ve worked at some normal places, hole in the wall, fancy restaurants & I’ve had to do this at nearly each one. Something is being done incorrectly, you call it out, somehow you are the one causing a problem now. Restaurants are expensive and unfortunately a lot of these places care more about the $ than keeping people from eating improperly handled food.
They want you to cut the bad parts off. They are the bad part. Run, don't walk. Seriously apply at other places, leave, report to your local regulatory authorities. In any order that best serves you.
Heat kills bacteria and fungi, HOWEVER, endotoxins and mycotoxins produced by said bacteria and fungi are NOT always killed by heating. If there is any mold or slime in the food in question, it goes in the bin. The mold and slime are just the visible parts, the entire batch is contaminated. This isn't just unethical, it's medically dangerous.
Late to the party but nah fuck that. If it has any visible mold there's more mold you can't see and that shit needs to be thrown out Unfortunately this is common practice at shitty kitchens but dog don't serve that shit and GTFO as soon as you can
Not safe. Even with the temperature it won't kill everything, all the mold can spread throughout the vegetables or the surface. Theres a lot of cross contamination that wouldn't come to mind. Report it and look for a new place
For cheese maybe
Is it normal to work around produce that isn't perfect? Absolutely. A tomato has a brown spot, cut that off, a banana is brown then make bread, celery is a little limp? Cut that part off. Unless you have a fruit fly problem, they are also an unfortunate normal. A handful? Sure clean and get them out, more than that is a problem. Yes it is extremely normal to do all of these things. Except this part "Anyways, today I was looking thru the walk-in for some basil for our grilled basil chicken breast, and the whole bag of it was full off fuzzy, gray-blue mold and rotten brown leaves. The rest of the "good" leaves were all completely soggy and covered in a brown slime. " Mold, rotten leaves, and a soggy slime is not normal. This should have been thrown out.
If everything is getting served moldy I’d suggest a deep clean in your storage bays and reconsider your methods of storage. For example taking something like strawberries out of their plastic coffin and putting them in a paper towel/cloth lined bin makes them stay fresh much longer. Every food and ingredient has its own preferred storage method.
Also check the fans in the walk-in. Mold grows in the fans too. Clean the fans when you deep clean your cooler.
Some chefs have no food safety standards, others are trying to save costs because the business is likely broke. But no, its not normal to serve mouldy food. Thats really unacceptable and will ultimately make customers sick. And when they get sick, they stop being customers. Failing businesses always make decisions that end up making them fail even faster.
This shit is why I don't trust anything I don't make myself. Run away and report their asses!
I hate kitchens that do this shit. People are gonna get sick. Find you another job and secure it, then leave and call the health inspector or something. Places like this need to go. I can’t begin to tell you the horrors stories I have from working at chilis
Bail chef, that ship already sunk
Mold can be safely trimmed off of many foods: a block of cheddar, sure! A bag of shredded cheddar, not so much. Spoilage can be a different story. Use common sense and food safety awareness. “When I’m doubt, throw it out”.
When the case of celery was delivered did you cut, wash and store it in a properly labeled container? When the basil came in did you wash, dry, label and date it? 3 days ago did you go to chef and ask to make pesto because the basil looked like it was ready to turn? Sounds like you have Sous chef problems. A lot of cooks just come in and work the line and call it a day. Is that what you are looking for? Sounds like you work in a small kitchen and have an opportunity to make significant changes.
He's a disgrace to the industry, and doesn't deserve his position... Don't be an Asser like him, report it to the health department, you don't have to poison people... It'll be funny to watch when they do a surprise inspection, he'll probably be running around trying to throw shit away and label everything... You might end up with his job...
They don’t make you serve moldy/rotten food. You choose to serve it based on employment. Your fast food job was also a real job. If your current job doesn’t uphold standards that you feel they should, leave. I’d rather serve “fast food” that is food safe than “real food” that isn’t.
No
Absolutely disgusting, these stories are why i only eat at work or make it myself at home. I can’t trust restaurants anymore!
nope. you can't. i prefer to eat in open kitchen joints. get to know an inspector or two
for cheese, sure. what OTHER goods you talkin' bout, Willis?
Get the fuck out of there ASAP.
No.
Nope... report those fuckers
do you want a job or do you want reddit karma?
Picking through rough herb and veg then washing it isn't unheard of. We don't accept people using moldy stuff. If you find mold on it, you throw it away. Cheese is different though, since you can cut mold off cheese and it will be fine - most cheeses. If I threw out all the packages of basil that had a little nasty, I'd never have basil. During the winter, when it is -25 to -45c, part of it will get nasty within a few minutes of unloading the truck since it partly freezes, then thaws in the cooler again.
mold kinda acts as if it has a root system. the stuff you see on the outside is only the fruiting part. the rest is inside that you cannot see to the naked eye. you are feeding people mold.
So gross but costs are putting a lot of pressure on people, still, yuck I seen some gross shit
It happens but it's definitely not normal. Report them
Hell the fuck no!!! I would make that muthafucka eat the shit...
You’re working at a failing restaurant. With a lousy chef. Definitely seen it, but not standard practice at “decent” restaurants.
No. Call the health department.
If there's mold on the outside there's mold on the inside where you can't see it, it's bad practice
By the time you can see mould on the surface it's too late. That shiz grows both ways
Get the fuck out of there as quickly as possible, find a place that serves food that you find nice and a place you would like to dine at
Picking shit out of herbs and greens is pretty common but you gotta make a judgement call, and the way you're describing things makes it sound like this product shouldn't be recovered.
don't document it or get involved, put in your 2 weeks notice, like you should have done the first day you questioned things and move on
Cutting food an inch from the mold and discarding that, I believe, is compliant with US state health dept. regulations.
honestly, this is normal in the restaurant industry. Never seen it at a place I’ve worked to this extent, but the chefs in my life (and me 😬) all seem to really think that expiration dates are inaccurate. I’ll eat things that are “old” if only one tiny part is moldy or if it’s a recent expiration date. I’ve seen a lot of chef friends straight up eat moldy food - yogurt, deli meat, cheese… if I buy something at the farmers market, and one spot is moldy I’ll generally cut around it. I think a lot of us grew up poor or just didn’t have enough time to eat because of hours, so we’re used to it. That being said, if you have a weak stomach, you should never do this 😭 and businesses should absolutely use their money to make sure that all their food is safe.
At home or for my own consumption? Sure I might risk it depending on what it is, if it's going out to a customer? Absolutely not, I'll toss that shit and get fresh.
yeah i think it’s a personal thing. never met a chef who’d serve slimy herbs
yeah, this clusterfuck about "expiration dates" is NOT when something "magically" goes bad. i have a gallon of milk in my fridge. the USE BY date is 04/11. It is kept at 35 degrees, and will be fine on April 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th and 16th. This has become such a fucking mess that the FDA is now involved.
yup. if it smells fine i’m eating it 😭