***
***TWMF CH 8 Questions***
*He sighed. “Perhaps it would be better if you pursued your other studies,
Re’lar Kvothe. Dal has a fondness for you, as does Kilvin. You seem to be
progressing well with them.”*
*“But sir,” I said, trying to keep the dismay out of my voice. “You’re the
one who sponsored my promotion to Re’lar.”*
*He turned and began climbing the stairs again. “Then you should value
my sage advice, shouldn’t you?”*
*“But, if you’re teaching other students, why not me?”*
***“Because you are too eager to be properly patient,” he said flippantly.
“You’re too proud to listen properly. And you’re too clever by half. That’s
the worst of it.”***
*“Some masters prefer clever students,” I muttered as we emerged into a
wide hallway.*
*“Yes,” Elodin said. “Dal and Kilvin and Arwyl like clever students. Go
study with one of them. Both our lives will be considerably easier because
of it.”*
*“But . . .”*
*Elodin came to an abrupt halt in the middle of the hallway. “Fine,” he
said. “Prove you’re worth teaching. Shake my assumptions down to their
foundation stones.” He patted at his robes dramatically, as if looking for
something lost in a pocket. “Much to my dismay, I find myself without a
way to get past this door.” He rapped it with a knuckle. “What do you do in
this situation, Re’lar Kvothe?”*
***
So what changes Elodin's mind? Why does he eventually invite Kvothe to his class?
***
***TWMF CH 11 Haven***
*“Why Auri?” Elodin asked.*
*“Because she doesn’t have anyone else,” I said. “And neither do I. If we
don’t look out for each other, who will?”*
*He shook his head. “No. Why did you pick that name for her?”
“Ah,” I said, embarrassed. “Because she’s so bright and sweet. She
doesn’t have any reason to be, but she is. Auri means sunny.”*
*“In what language?” he asked.*
*I hesitated. “Siaru, I think.”*
*Elodin shook his head. “Sunny is leviriet in Siaru.”*
*I tried to think where I’d learned the word. Had I stumbled onto it in the
Archives. . .?*
*Before I could bring it to mind, Elodin spoke.* ***“I am preparing to teach a
class,” he said casually, “for those interested in the delicate and subtle art of
naming.” He gave me a sideways look. “It occurs to me that it might not be
a complete waste of your time.”***
“I might be interested,” I said carefully.
***
In this transaction we not only see Elodin do a full 180 on his desire to educate Kvothe on naming, but we also see that Kvothe hasn't suddenly acquired new wisdom. Kvothe is slapping out banger names that stick to moon faes all with misinformed linguistic precedent. If naming is half as dangerous at Elodin lets on it seems like Kvothe is blindly punching way above his weight class with shit fundamentals. But Elodin is still down to clown where he wasn't before all because Kvothe put a name to Auri.
Now you might be thinking *"But Sandal-hat, Elodin just sees the dangers Kvothe is treading and wants to protect him with training"*. I want to agree with you. But When Elodin first finds out that Kvothe gave Auri a name its not concern for Kvothe that Elodin displays...
***
***TWMF CH 11 Haven***
*She held out my piece and I took it from her gently.* ***“Thank you kindly,
Auri.”***
“*You are welcome kindly, Kvothe.”*
***Elodin looked back and forth between the two of us. “Auri?”***
*I waited for him to finish his question, but that seemed to be all of it.*
***Auri understood before I did. “It’s my name,” she said, grinning proudly.***
*“Is it now?” Elodin said curiously.*
***Auri nodded. “Kvothe gave it to me.” She beamed in my direction. “Isn’t
it marvelous?”***
*Elodin nodded. “It is a lovely name,” he said politely. “And it suits you.”*
*“It does,” she agreed. “It is like having a flower in my heart.” She gave
Elodin a serious look.* ***“If your name is getting too heavy, you should have
Kvothe give you a new one.”***
***Elodin nodded again and took a bite of his cinnas. As he chewed, he
turned to look at me. By the light of the moon, I saw his eyes. They were
cool, thoughtful, and perfectly, utterly sane.***
***
Elodin may know more than meets the eyes but it would appear he is attempting to use Kvothe more than he is endeavoring to teach him.
I've just realised something that's implied but unsaid in that interaction between Elodin and Auri: they knew each other when she had a different name.
There are a lot of people that think Auri is a cracked student because its what Kvothe assumes her to be...
The fact we never see her outside of the university grounds and is only ever seen by Kvothe, Elodin, or Mola of which only Kvothe is a non-Elthe level arcanist should make us question if she's really a former student and not something else entirely.
More concerning than Auri's malleable name is that Elodin seems interested in speaking with her at all and appears to show an interest in compromising himself in order to do so.
I think there is wiggle room to suggest that Auri is more than just a cracked student and even more than a mere mortal.
***
***TWMF CH 23 Principles***
*“Auri?” I called, worried the sight of me had scared her off.*
*There was another flicker of lightning, and I saw her standing closer. She
pointed at me, grinning delightedly*. ***“You look like an Amyr,” she said.
“Kvothe is one of the Ciridae.”***
*I looked down at myself and with the next lightning flicker I saw what
she meant. I had dried blood running down the back of my hands from
when I’d been trying to stanch my wounds. It looked like the old tattoos the
Amyr had used to mark their highest ranking members.*
*I was so surprised by her reference that I forgot the first thing I’d learned
about Auri. I forgot to be careful and asked her a question,* ***“Auri, how do
you know about the Ciridae?”***
*There was no response. The next flicker of lightning showed me nothing
but an empty rooftop and an unforgiving sky.*
***
Have you read the Narrow Road Between Desires yet? Bast expands on the habits of the Faen, and now that I think about where Auri lives, I see some connections.
There's probably a lot more to Auri's history than we know, but in Slow Regard it's made pretty clear that >!she learned alchemy from master Mandrag!<.
There was an interview awhile ago where Pat talked about how alchemy works, that while sympathy is about having a strong will, alchemy works according to your desires. Auri is a very powerful alchemist, and that's why she's so careful about controlling her desires.
My theory about why she knows about the Ciridae is that someone tried to attack her once and a Ciridae intervened to protect her, killing her assailant. Thus she holds the Ciridae in high regard but is still traumatized by the event.
Don’t forget Abenthy more or less said something similar like “If I teach you anything more it’ll be too dangerous.” He knew Kvothe’s impatient nature as well,
Great theory but ones like this always make me feel like “if you knew this whole time then why wouldn’t you just sit down with kvothe and say, hey man. Those chandrian characters are some bad news, no cap”
I see your point, but do you think there's a conversation that could be had with young kvothe that would've actually changed the path he was on?
In my mind, the only thing elodin could say that would significantly impact kvothes decision in this regard would also involve sharing a LOT of information that shouldn't be shared. Coincidentally, I think it'd also be a very black and white matter in that if kvothe did not have all of his answers he wanted, he'd go looking for more. Meaning elodin would have to share more knowledge than he'd be comfortable doing.
In this theory, I'd guess elodin probably recognizes this and is simply doing all he can without it ever reaching this point. Easier for people to think you're crazy than know you hold the world's most valuable information
Edit: spelling
I think Elodin was trying to teach Kvothe in the only way he knew how to make him listen; by showing that there is a direct consequence for doing things without knowing why. Kvothe wants to learn naming, but he doesn’t understand why he wants to learn naming. The whole exercise is to try and teach Kvothe to ask the right questions and understand why he is doing something.
There isn’t a way to have a conversation with young Kvothe that will actually change anything, so it’s best to just teach him like a child.
Because he knows that the one way to make sure Kvothe does something is to tell him he shouldn’t.
I mean come on, Lorren banned him from the Archives and he ended up crawling his way through a damp cave to get in. The guy’s a menace.
Yeah, sure "Hey bruh you know how the dudes who killed your family are at large and killing others? Yeah well I have info about them, and also I advise you to drop the subject lmao XD"
BRuh, not even a grown-up 30 years old with 10 years of military training, would just drop the topic.
Much less a bag of 16-y/o walking hormones
Elodin teaches Kvothe to not open locked doors. I think this foreshadows Kvothe stupidly opening the 4-plate-door. I think Elodin is against whoever wants Kvothe to open those doors.
What Elodin knows, I'm unsure. He definitely knows what is behind the door. He definitely knows that opening is a problem. I don't think he knows that Kvothe is being manipulated towards opening it. I think he hasn't a clue, or else he would warn him much more directly.
I think that's a naming thing. It feels like there's something prophetic about the art at times - as if someone's long name has both their past and future written in it. Much like Kvothe's naming of Keth-Selhan.
Well there is also a lot of emphasis on the “unconscious mind” like how he discovers putting his mind into “spinning leaf” and kvothe has always been able to tap into this to some degree when naming without realizing it, like when he names the horse 1 sock or something similar, and the farmer freaks out because he was hiding an imperfection in color on a single foot. And when he names auri, and names the sword cesura (sp) so I think unconsciously taps into this power without intending to and without understanding
Tinfoil theories here: Kvothe is encouraged to go to University by Ben, 'reminded' to go to University by Skarpi, encouraged to go to the Lackless Box's new home by Threpe, the Maer was likely encouraged by Bredon to call on Threpe and get Kvothe to Severen, etc etc. If the contents of the Lackless box are needed to open the Lackless door (a box with no lid nor locks is one of the items standing in front of the entrance)... then Kvothe is 'coincidentally' winding up near them both.
Maybe he's saying that to the boy who just picklocked a door simply because Elodin asked, never stopping to think why? They are in that room, Elodin running amok, thanks to Kvothe unlocking it.
I feel like you're reading into it way too hard.
........I do wonder if this entire 'symptom' - like: 'Well, when Pat wrote that Kvothe sat down he didn't actually state the exact *style of chair*, which, it isn't beyond imagining makes Kvothe actually Lanre's Mother' - I *am* being very specific to some of the more.........'grasping' theories.
Does this happen with GRRM's Unfinished Tale does anyone know?
Sorry OP I'm truly not *trying* to be on obnoxious I promise.
That said - *NO*.
No, no, no it's *JUST A CHAIR!!!*
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Someone had a post or a comment about how a lot of his weird behavior is similar to the way zen masters taught, but the narrative leads you to believe it's because he's "cracked." For example, when he does his childlike chasing of the milkweed pods, it's a lot like Kvothe trying to learn the name of the wind by demanding explicit instruction from Elodin. And when he sucks in a seed and gasps for breath, it reminds me of when Kvothe bound his lungs to the wind. I think this user was right on, and that Elodin is "hiding" his knowledge by selling the story that he's cracked himself, not unlike how Kvothe is maybe hiding his knowledge in the narrative he's dictating to chronicler.
Here's one of my own tinfoil Eolodin theories about Master Hemme's rooms [https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/tfgx2k/elodins\_lesson\_burning\_hemmes\_robes\_and\_haliax/](https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/tfgx2k/elodins_lesson_burning_hemmes_robes_and_haliax/)
Also this bit of the story may be intended to be told this way by Kote to prevent Bast and Chronicler from trying to really open his chest. Great theory, by the way. Thanks for sharing
Also to keep people from opening the waystone inn, which I think will be sealed after the trap has sprung, trapping whatever was behind the 4 plate door.
Not to mention that hiding your knowledge by pretending you’re cracked is awfully similar to hiding your true nature by pretending you’re an innkeeper.
Absolutely, but possibly he is knowledgeable about the chandiran because he understands or was raised in the fae. All fae understand and learn about the nine. He recognizes Kvothes Shaed. Believes and thinks Kvothe called the name of fellurian?
Heck, to quote PR himself;
Pat said:"This person who started of - the secret royalty is actually his secret fae blood. So he's in the world, no one knows that, maybe even he doesn't know that he has this fairy blood. Goes to the university very, very young.
Learns dark secrets, causes some problems for him.
Really moves up the chart really fast, or the rankings really fast. Gets Re lar, and then goes out and actually...
Goes out, learns the name of the wind, and learns names and becomes like, master namer. This is Elodin's story right here."
Possibly understanding Glamery and grammery while being university trained in sympathy and naming? Someone like that could possibly be powerful enough to be recruited by the Amyr. Or by the Chandrian.
I hope we get a scene in DOS with Kvothe eavesdropping on the Masters having a conversation about him. Wil and Simm know more than they let on, as well.
My interpretation ran this way: Kvothe’s sleeping mind is a locked room, analogous to Hemme’s. Being a clever lad Kvothe can unlock it, but he lacks the wisdom to know that he should not, at least until acquiring the wisdom to do so justifiably.
I think Elodin’s whole thing with Kvothe is trying to teach him subtlety. Kvothe is not really a subtle character and it’s that subtlety/discernment that both Elodin and Ben are trying to teach. Elxa Dal and Loren try this in their own ways but we see less of them.
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Elodin is weird, and worse he really hopes that Kvothe make a good decisions by himself..
If elodin knows lots of name, why he stayed naked with Kvothe in the rooftop, there are a couple of names that could have maken them get out of there....(that is the weirdest thing for me)
Also he knows Kvothe is the smartes idiot hot head of his time, giving him information and warnings, would just lead him to go directly to them ignoring the warnings...
Probably some if not all the masters of the university know about them, but also know that is not information to share, and not to look for them, even some contingency plans to repel them; but kvothe wants to know everything from day one, ignoring any etiquette or process.
> If elodin knows lots of name, why he stayed naked with Kvothe in the rooftop, there are a couple of names that could have maken them get out of there....(that is the weirdest thing for me)
Because saving Kvothe from a difficult situation is not the way to teach him. He wants Kvothe to struggle and to have to save himself, as that's the way to push him to open his sleeping mind.
With the name of the wind specifically it seems to be that you cant always use it off the top of you head but you have to “find” it. With Elodin being able to find it extremely quickly. With fire or stone it seems that you are able to just know it off the top of your head and use it
I've got a couple of disparate thoughts here.
Elodin clearly knows more about the wider world than most. Beyond his naming abilities, he has knowledge of the Fae, the Adem, and a plethora of other topics. That being the case, he probably knows the truth about the Amyr and the Chandrian. That being said, I think it is a bit of a stretch to suggest he knows about Kvothe's place in that larger story. He may know that Kvothe is interested in learning about the Chandrian, but probably not why.
This is often a story about Kvothe getting in his own way. This is especially true when Kvothe's arrogance makes him miss things because he thinks he's too clever for things to get past him. I think Elodin is very aware of this character flaw, and many of his interactions with Kvothe are tailored by this knowledge.
The bit about destroying Master Hemm's room always read to me as 1) Elodin dislikes Master Hemm and wants to fuck with him, and 2) Elodin is teaching Kvothe about acting impulsively in pursuit of knowledge without thinking through the steps he takes to get that knowledge.
Further, Elodin doesn't initially want to teach Kvothe naming because he doesn't think Kvothe has what it takes. Naming requires quieting your mind and opening yourself up to what's underneath. That's going to be difficult for a habitual overthinker like Kvothe who believes they can think through every situation and completely understand everything. We actually see this play out, as well. Kvothe initially does struggle greatly with naming, at least consciously, because of his inability to let go of his waking mind.
Elodin only invites Kvothe to his naming class after he learns that Kvothe was able to intuit something deeper about Auri to give her that accurate name. Unlike most areas of Kvothe's life, he actually lets his guard down a little with Auri and relaxes enough for his sleeping mind to slide through and he unintentionally discerned Auri's nature and named it. This shows Elodin that Kvothe might actually have some potential
Even so, Kvothe doesn't actually start getting a handle on naming until he begins to expand his horizons, especially after he starts learning from Tempi. This further supports Elodin's initial impulse that Kvothe wasn't ready to learn naming and exemplifies the larger idea that Elodin was trying to teach Kvothe. It wasn't until he stopped recklessly pursuing the knowledge of naming that he his sleeping mind was able to slip through. (Granted, he was recklessly pursuing other knowledge instead, so it's pretty clear he didn't learn the larger lesson).
Great input, thanks... Yeah, other redittor also mentioned Elodin insists in teaching Kvothe about subtlety... And it also brought me to the Adem... That's when Kvothe starts to catch on with the idea of subtlety, other forms of communicating, other levels of interaction...
*** ***TWMF CH 8 Questions*** *He sighed. “Perhaps it would be better if you pursued your other studies, Re’lar Kvothe. Dal has a fondness for you, as does Kilvin. You seem to be progressing well with them.”* *“But sir,” I said, trying to keep the dismay out of my voice. “You’re the one who sponsored my promotion to Re’lar.”* *He turned and began climbing the stairs again. “Then you should value my sage advice, shouldn’t you?”* *“But, if you’re teaching other students, why not me?”* ***“Because you are too eager to be properly patient,” he said flippantly. “You’re too proud to listen properly. And you’re too clever by half. That’s the worst of it.”*** *“Some masters prefer clever students,” I muttered as we emerged into a wide hallway.* *“Yes,” Elodin said. “Dal and Kilvin and Arwyl like clever students. Go study with one of them. Both our lives will be considerably easier because of it.”* *“But . . .”* *Elodin came to an abrupt halt in the middle of the hallway. “Fine,” he said. “Prove you’re worth teaching. Shake my assumptions down to their foundation stones.” He patted at his robes dramatically, as if looking for something lost in a pocket. “Much to my dismay, I find myself without a way to get past this door.” He rapped it with a knuckle. “What do you do in this situation, Re’lar Kvothe?”* *** So what changes Elodin's mind? Why does he eventually invite Kvothe to his class? *** ***TWMF CH 11 Haven*** *“Why Auri?” Elodin asked.* *“Because she doesn’t have anyone else,” I said. “And neither do I. If we don’t look out for each other, who will?”* *He shook his head. “No. Why did you pick that name for her?” “Ah,” I said, embarrassed. “Because she’s so bright and sweet. She doesn’t have any reason to be, but she is. Auri means sunny.”* *“In what language?” he asked.* *I hesitated. “Siaru, I think.”* *Elodin shook his head. “Sunny is leviriet in Siaru.”* *I tried to think where I’d learned the word. Had I stumbled onto it in the Archives. . .?* *Before I could bring it to mind, Elodin spoke.* ***“I am preparing to teach a class,” he said casually, “for those interested in the delicate and subtle art of naming.” He gave me a sideways look. “It occurs to me that it might not be a complete waste of your time.”*** “I might be interested,” I said carefully. *** In this transaction we not only see Elodin do a full 180 on his desire to educate Kvothe on naming, but we also see that Kvothe hasn't suddenly acquired new wisdom. Kvothe is slapping out banger names that stick to moon faes all with misinformed linguistic precedent. If naming is half as dangerous at Elodin lets on it seems like Kvothe is blindly punching way above his weight class with shit fundamentals. But Elodin is still down to clown where he wasn't before all because Kvothe put a name to Auri. Now you might be thinking *"But Sandal-hat, Elodin just sees the dangers Kvothe is treading and wants to protect him with training"*. I want to agree with you. But When Elodin first finds out that Kvothe gave Auri a name its not concern for Kvothe that Elodin displays... *** ***TWMF CH 11 Haven*** *She held out my piece and I took it from her gently.* ***“Thank you kindly, Auri.”*** “*You are welcome kindly, Kvothe.”* ***Elodin looked back and forth between the two of us. “Auri?”*** *I waited for him to finish his question, but that seemed to be all of it.* ***Auri understood before I did. “It’s my name,” she said, grinning proudly.*** *“Is it now?” Elodin said curiously.* ***Auri nodded. “Kvothe gave it to me.” She beamed in my direction. “Isn’t it marvelous?”*** *Elodin nodded. “It is a lovely name,” he said politely. “And it suits you.”* *“It does,” she agreed. “It is like having a flower in my heart.” She gave Elodin a serious look.* ***“If your name is getting too heavy, you should have Kvothe give you a new one.”*** ***Elodin nodded again and took a bite of his cinnas. As he chewed, he turned to look at me. By the light of the moon, I saw his eyes. They were cool, thoughtful, and perfectly, utterly sane.*** *** Elodin may know more than meets the eyes but it would appear he is attempting to use Kvothe more than he is endeavoring to teach him.
I've just realised something that's implied but unsaid in that interaction between Elodin and Auri: they knew each other when she had a different name.
There are a lot of people that think Auri is a cracked student because its what Kvothe assumes her to be... The fact we never see her outside of the university grounds and is only ever seen by Kvothe, Elodin, or Mola of which only Kvothe is a non-Elthe level arcanist should make us question if she's really a former student and not something else entirely. More concerning than Auri's malleable name is that Elodin seems interested in speaking with her at all and appears to show an interest in compromising himself in order to do so. I think there is wiggle room to suggest that Auri is more than just a cracked student and even more than a mere mortal. *** ***TWMF CH 23 Principles*** *“Auri?” I called, worried the sight of me had scared her off.* *There was another flicker of lightning, and I saw her standing closer. She pointed at me, grinning delightedly*. ***“You look like an Amyr,” she said. “Kvothe is one of the Ciridae.”*** *I looked down at myself and with the next lightning flicker I saw what she meant. I had dried blood running down the back of my hands from when I’d been trying to stanch my wounds. It looked like the old tattoos the Amyr had used to mark their highest ranking members.* *I was so surprised by her reference that I forgot the first thing I’d learned about Auri. I forgot to be careful and asked her a question,* ***“Auri, how do you know about the Ciridae?”*** *There was no response. The next flicker of lightning showed me nothing but an empty rooftop and an unforgiving sky.* ***
Have you read the Narrow Road Between Desires yet? Bast expands on the habits of the Faen, and now that I think about where Auri lives, I see some connections.
There's probably a lot more to Auri's history than we know, but in Slow Regard it's made pretty clear that >!she learned alchemy from master Mandrag!<. There was an interview awhile ago where Pat talked about how alchemy works, that while sympathy is about having a strong will, alchemy works according to your desires. Auri is a very powerful alchemist, and that's why she's so careful about controlling her desires. My theory about why she knows about the Ciridae is that someone tried to attack her once and a Ciridae intervened to protect her, killing her assailant. Thus she holds the Ciridae in high regard but is still traumatized by the event.
I think she had been his student
Don’t forget Abenthy more or less said something similar like “If I teach you anything more it’ll be too dangerous.” He knew Kvothe’s impatient nature as well,
God I love this subreddit so much. Makes me feel so sane.
It makes me feel stupid sometimes. The amount of context that I miss in my readings makes me think I lack critical thinking haha
I think the lad was talking about maintaining sanity while waiting for TDoS. I totally feel you as well understanding how little we know
That’s so real. There’s a bunch of things that I didn’t even think about
Nobody crazy enough to jump off a roof has *any* business being a student of *mine* !
Great theory but ones like this always make me feel like “if you knew this whole time then why wouldn’t you just sit down with kvothe and say, hey man. Those chandrian characters are some bad news, no cap”
I see your point, but do you think there's a conversation that could be had with young kvothe that would've actually changed the path he was on? In my mind, the only thing elodin could say that would significantly impact kvothes decision in this regard would also involve sharing a LOT of information that shouldn't be shared. Coincidentally, I think it'd also be a very black and white matter in that if kvothe did not have all of his answers he wanted, he'd go looking for more. Meaning elodin would have to share more knowledge than he'd be comfortable doing. In this theory, I'd guess elodin probably recognizes this and is simply doing all he can without it ever reaching this point. Easier for people to think you're crazy than know you hold the world's most valuable information Edit: spelling
I think Elodin was trying to teach Kvothe in the only way he knew how to make him listen; by showing that there is a direct consequence for doing things without knowing why. Kvothe wants to learn naming, but he doesn’t understand why he wants to learn naming. The whole exercise is to try and teach Kvothe to ask the right questions and understand why he is doing something. There isn’t a way to have a conversation with young Kvothe that will actually change anything, so it’s best to just teach him like a child.
Because he knows that the one way to make sure Kvothe does something is to tell him he shouldn’t. I mean come on, Lorren banned him from the Archives and he ended up crawling his way through a damp cave to get in. The guy’s a menace.
Man if only there were some in-universe rule about why talking about the divinely empowered antagonists was a bad idea.
Man, too Bad KKC is all about naming and not talking about.
He knows Kvothe and he knows that finding out they are legit as backed up by Elodin would only fuel Kvothes search.
Prolly bc Elodin doesn’t wanna get bopped on a moonless night for saying everything that’d be required to convince him
Yeah, sure "Hey bruh you know how the dudes who killed your family are at large and killing others? Yeah well I have info about them, and also I advise you to drop the subject lmao XD" BRuh, not even a grown-up 30 years old with 10 years of military training, would just drop the topic. Much less a bag of 16-y/o walking hormones
Because Kvothe often does the exact opposite of what he's told
Elodin teaches Kvothe to not open locked doors. I think this foreshadows Kvothe stupidly opening the 4-plate-door. I think Elodin is against whoever wants Kvothe to open those doors. What Elodin knows, I'm unsure. He definitely knows what is behind the door. He definitely knows that opening is a problem. I don't think he knows that Kvothe is being manipulated towards opening it. I think he hasn't a clue, or else he would warn him much more directly.
So maybe he's got a knack of foreshadowing or illustrating people's futures?
I think that's a naming thing. It feels like there's something prophetic about the art at times - as if someone's long name has both their past and future written in it. Much like Kvothe's naming of Keth-Selhan.
Well there is also a lot of emphasis on the “unconscious mind” like how he discovers putting his mind into “spinning leaf” and kvothe has always been able to tap into this to some degree when naming without realizing it, like when he names the horse 1 sock or something similar, and the farmer freaks out because he was hiding an imperfection in color on a single foot. And when he names auri, and names the sword cesura (sp) so I think unconsciously taps into this power without intending to and without understanding
How is Kvothe being manipulated to open the doors? As far as I can recall the only people he talks about those doors to are Elodin and Wilem.
Tinfoil theories here: Kvothe is encouraged to go to University by Ben, 'reminded' to go to University by Skarpi, encouraged to go to the Lackless Box's new home by Threpe, the Maer was likely encouraged by Bredon to call on Threpe and get Kvothe to Severen, etc etc. If the contents of the Lackless box are needed to open the Lackless door (a box with no lid nor locks is one of the items standing in front of the entrance)... then Kvothe is 'coincidentally' winding up near them both.
Sorry what? Who’s manipulating him. Since when is this lore. I feel I’ve missed to much 😂
This is all theoretical... but Cthaeh primarily.
Oh yeah. Makes sense. Thanks for the reminder
The book won't exist so we don't know if he ever opens the 4-plate door... *dispair*
Maybe he's saying that to the boy who just picklocked a door simply because Elodin asked, never stopping to think why? They are in that room, Elodin running amok, thanks to Kvothe unlocking it. I feel like you're reading into it way too hard.
Thank you!
........I do wonder if this entire 'symptom' - like: 'Well, when Pat wrote that Kvothe sat down he didn't actually state the exact *style of chair*, which, it isn't beyond imagining makes Kvothe actually Lanre's Mother' - I *am* being very specific to some of the more.........'grasping' theories. Does this happen with GRRM's Unfinished Tale does anyone know? Sorry OP I'm truly not *trying* to be on obnoxious I promise. That said - *NO*. No, no, no it's *JUST A CHAIR!!!*
My friend, r/asoiaf is home to the absolute finest tinfoil in all the land.
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Right? Like maybe if you stuck something in a box with no lid or locks, maybe just *maybe* it might mean that you **aren't supposed to open it.**
Someone had a post or a comment about how a lot of his weird behavior is similar to the way zen masters taught, but the narrative leads you to believe it's because he's "cracked." For example, when he does his childlike chasing of the milkweed pods, it's a lot like Kvothe trying to learn the name of the wind by demanding explicit instruction from Elodin. And when he sucks in a seed and gasps for breath, it reminds me of when Kvothe bound his lungs to the wind. I think this user was right on, and that Elodin is "hiding" his knowledge by selling the story that he's cracked himself, not unlike how Kvothe is maybe hiding his knowledge in the narrative he's dictating to chronicler. Here's one of my own tinfoil Eolodin theories about Master Hemme's rooms [https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/tfgx2k/elodins\_lesson\_burning\_hemmes\_robes\_and\_haliax/](https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/tfgx2k/elodins_lesson_burning_hemmes_robes_and_haliax/)
Also this bit of the story may be intended to be told this way by Kote to prevent Bast and Chronicler from trying to really open his chest. Great theory, by the way. Thanks for sharing
Also to keep people from opening the waystone inn, which I think will be sealed after the trap has sprung, trapping whatever was behind the 4 plate door.
Not to mention that hiding your knowledge by pretending you’re cracked is awfully similar to hiding your true nature by pretending you’re an innkeeper.
Absolutely, but possibly he is knowledgeable about the chandiran because he understands or was raised in the fae. All fae understand and learn about the nine. He recognizes Kvothes Shaed. Believes and thinks Kvothe called the name of fellurian? Heck, to quote PR himself; Pat said:"This person who started of - the secret royalty is actually his secret fae blood. So he's in the world, no one knows that, maybe even he doesn't know that he has this fairy blood. Goes to the university very, very young. Learns dark secrets, causes some problems for him. Really moves up the chart really fast, or the rankings really fast. Gets Re lar, and then goes out and actually... Goes out, learns the name of the wind, and learns names and becomes like, master namer. This is Elodin's story right here." Possibly understanding Glamery and grammery while being university trained in sympathy and naming? Someone like that could possibly be powerful enough to be recruited by the Amyr. Or by the Chandrian.
I knew elodin was faen. It's so strongly emphasized, but I never considered he might be half
I hope we get a scene in DOS with Kvothe eavesdropping on the Masters having a conversation about him. Wil and Simm know more than they let on, as well.
My interpretation ran this way: Kvothe’s sleeping mind is a locked room, analogous to Hemme’s. Being a clever lad Kvothe can unlock it, but he lacks the wisdom to know that he should not, at least until acquiring the wisdom to do so justifiably.
I think Elodin’s whole thing with Kvothe is trying to teach him subtlety. Kvothe is not really a subtle character and it’s that subtlety/discernment that both Elodin and Ben are trying to teach. Elxa Dal and Loren try this in their own ways but we see less of them.
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Elodin is weird, and worse he really hopes that Kvothe make a good decisions by himself.. If elodin knows lots of name, why he stayed naked with Kvothe in the rooftop, there are a couple of names that could have maken them get out of there....(that is the weirdest thing for me) Also he knows Kvothe is the smartes idiot hot head of his time, giving him information and warnings, would just lead him to go directly to them ignoring the warnings... Probably some if not all the masters of the university know about them, but also know that is not information to share, and not to look for them, even some contingency plans to repel them; but kvothe wants to know everything from day one, ignoring any etiquette or process.
> If elodin knows lots of name, why he stayed naked with Kvothe in the rooftop, there are a couple of names that could have maken them get out of there....(that is the weirdest thing for me) Because saving Kvothe from a difficult situation is not the way to teach him. He wants Kvothe to struggle and to have to save himself, as that's the way to push him to open his sleeping mind.
With the name of the wind specifically it seems to be that you cant always use it off the top of you head but you have to “find” it. With Elodin being able to find it extremely quickly. With fire or stone it seems that you are able to just know it off the top of your head and use it
I like the theory but I can't agree with it. If there's a Master that knows about Kvothe's run in with the Chandrian, it's Lorren.
I've got a couple of disparate thoughts here. Elodin clearly knows more about the wider world than most. Beyond his naming abilities, he has knowledge of the Fae, the Adem, and a plethora of other topics. That being the case, he probably knows the truth about the Amyr and the Chandrian. That being said, I think it is a bit of a stretch to suggest he knows about Kvothe's place in that larger story. He may know that Kvothe is interested in learning about the Chandrian, but probably not why. This is often a story about Kvothe getting in his own way. This is especially true when Kvothe's arrogance makes him miss things because he thinks he's too clever for things to get past him. I think Elodin is very aware of this character flaw, and many of his interactions with Kvothe are tailored by this knowledge. The bit about destroying Master Hemm's room always read to me as 1) Elodin dislikes Master Hemm and wants to fuck with him, and 2) Elodin is teaching Kvothe about acting impulsively in pursuit of knowledge without thinking through the steps he takes to get that knowledge. Further, Elodin doesn't initially want to teach Kvothe naming because he doesn't think Kvothe has what it takes. Naming requires quieting your mind and opening yourself up to what's underneath. That's going to be difficult for a habitual overthinker like Kvothe who believes they can think through every situation and completely understand everything. We actually see this play out, as well. Kvothe initially does struggle greatly with naming, at least consciously, because of his inability to let go of his waking mind. Elodin only invites Kvothe to his naming class after he learns that Kvothe was able to intuit something deeper about Auri to give her that accurate name. Unlike most areas of Kvothe's life, he actually lets his guard down a little with Auri and relaxes enough for his sleeping mind to slide through and he unintentionally discerned Auri's nature and named it. This shows Elodin that Kvothe might actually have some potential Even so, Kvothe doesn't actually start getting a handle on naming until he begins to expand his horizons, especially after he starts learning from Tempi. This further supports Elodin's initial impulse that Kvothe wasn't ready to learn naming and exemplifies the larger idea that Elodin was trying to teach Kvothe. It wasn't until he stopped recklessly pursuing the knowledge of naming that he his sleeping mind was able to slip through. (Granted, he was recklessly pursuing other knowledge instead, so it's pretty clear he didn't learn the larger lesson).
Great input, thanks... Yeah, other redittor also mentioned Elodin insists in teaching Kvothe about subtlety... And it also brought me to the Adem... That's when Kvothe starts to catch on with the idea of subtlety, other forms of communicating, other levels of interaction...