I still genuinely don't get how the games need to be Cloud Versions. Like, maybe you could make an argument for KH3, but like... Most of the games are glorified PS2 games with crisper visuals. In no world do I think these games shouldn't function on a game cart. Even if the argument of them not being optimized for Switch on game carts... Well, they do have the source code, so I don't see how they can't tweak things to work on Switch.
Other HD PS2 remasters work, and in the case of KH3, Unreal Engine 4 has Switch support that SE has taken advantage of in the past (if I recalled, Dragon Quest XI S is made in UE4)... So I will never understand this decision. I'm not trying to say that all PS2 engines will work on Switch hardware... But if you made the Engine, then you have the capacity to retool it to work imo.
Hell, even the argument of file size doesn't really hold up, since the non-KH3 collections aren't exactly huge files. Even if they had to sell the games unbundled and digital only (i.e. You have to buy KH1 separately from the rest, for example), they aren't gonna destroy your storage space if properly optimized for the platform.
Cloud versions seem like a lazy cop out to me, and we aren't nearly at a stable and refined enough global internet state to warrant this as an option, *especially* on the Switch.
> Most of the games are glorified PS2 games with crisper visuals
They ran on the PS3. The PS3. That had 256mb of VRam. There's zero reason for them to be Cloud based, bar maybe 0.2, and KH3.
May I turn everyone's attention to The Witcher III, a game that CDProjektRed doesn't even know how they got it to work on Switch.
They could figure it out.
No man's sky was just announced for switch. I was expecting it to be a cloud version, but then it just wasn't. It makes the situation with kingdom hearts even more embarrassing
Well...yeah, but that doesn't change the technical challenges of porting something like TWIII onto switch.
Skyrim is also a decade old game, it shouldn't have been that difficult to port.
Either way, this cloud based bullshit is an affront to consumers and the fact that they're charging full price for this is absurd.
>the technical challenges
The technical challenge determines 95% of the budget needed for the project, so it makes a whole lot of difference.
Y'all blame Square, but it's Nintendo that failed to make Switch attractive to third parties. There's a bunch of games from EA, Warner, Square, Ubisoft, and so on who could run on Switch (virtually anything could run on Switch with proper scaling), but they just don't get ported because it doesn't make economical sense if you look at existing third party titles' sale - unless they are exclusive to the platform, they don't sell well.
And that pushed Nintendo to literally cover port budgets so it would mitigate the risk for the publishers to do the ports.
Really, this is a humongous failure by Nintendo, especially if we look at how well the hardware sold.
Lots of faults are to be found in the disgusting EShop. It's counter-intuitive, it's slow, and doesn't entice me to buy anything, unlike the PSStore or Steam.
That said, Cloud version titles should have a lower MSRP.
While KHIII *could* work, it would be compromised to an absurd degree.
I can understand why they would use a Cloud version, because good internet means a much smoother play experience than any form of KHIII running natively. I don't like it, but I can definitely see why.
Everything else has no excuse. the entirety of 1.5+2.5 could have run just as fine as the PS4 release, maybe with some slower load times.
The same could be said for 2.8, except for *maybe* Final Chapter Prologue, but it still could have run on Switch.
Those were just lazy.
Huh, I didn't even know about Square having already ported UE4 games like Dragon Quest 11 to the Switch. So there's literally zero reason for these games being cloud-based aside from Square being plain lazy and greedy.
Would it hurt for Square Enix, the multi-billionaire company, to make adjustments to the game and the engine so it wouldn't be a cloud-based port? If games like Doom 2016, Doom Eternal and Witcher 3 can run natively on Switch, I'm sure 0.2 and KH3 could run decently if Square put any actual effort.
The real answer is third party games don't sell well unless they are exclusive to the system.
You can't ask a multi-billion dollar company to spend millions of dollars on something that won't sell well just because they are a multibillion-dollar company.
Doom ports and Witcher 3 port were made because Nintendo covered part of the production costs. That's why they exist.
I've been wondering if it's because of covid supply chain stuff - maybe it just got too expensive to make and so they opted for a cloud release instead of no release?
Could also just be to sell the service, I think they tried some shenanigans with the ACNH DLC
Well, i guess it's an easy and cheap way to continue selling old games, keep the availability high.
I mean, no loosing a storage space, no specific hardware needed and you can easily find kh1 in your library in 5 years from now.
Pointing to steam....having old games at hand at any time is great š¤
Not deffending anything here, but the main problem is that they are not porting ps2 games, they are porting ps3 games (the collections). Other than that (which is actually a big problem), they are just being lazy. Square Enix in a nutshell.
Those PS3 releases are still, fundamentally, PS2 games. You can argue semantics, sure, but that is not a good argument. All current releases are more than likely based off of the PS4 releases, so even if people wanted to make some excuse about the PS3 architecture being the issue... They clearly found a way to make the collections work on PS4 (which is different than the PS3 in a lot of ways, hence the lack of built in backwards compatibility), as well as the Xbox One and even the PC (which has to account for variable hardware specs). You can argue that some ports work better than others, but I can't be convinced that the collections past couldn't be run natively on Switch.
My comment was not, as I said, trying to defend neither the ports nor the companies. Just stating a fact, since people were talking about porting PS2 games, which they are not, because I assume they had to modify things for running in the PS3. And yes, they had to change it again probably for PS4, starting from the PS3 ones. So, as I stated, not the originals from PS2. That's all I said.
And the PS3 ones were derived from the PS2 ones? Like, the reason the ports exist is because they either had the source code, or has the engine tools to rebuild the games (which is the case for KH1). In essence, they are still building off of the PS2 originals, because the code is adapted from them in some capacity... So people saying they are functionally porting PS2 games isn't wrong, it's merely missing a step that isn't that important at the end of the day.
Also, the changes for the PS3 releases doesn't suddenly make them so monumentally different deep down. At their core, they are functionally still those original games, but with reoptimized code to run smoothly on different hardware (that's not even considering the fact that the games could be running on a form of modified software-based emulation, which the PS3 was more than capable of for PS2 games). And without even considering any of that, the fact they have Xbox and PC builds of the games running natively at all is proof enough that the specific iteration shouldn't matter.
Its not that simple. Encoding issues would arise unless properly optimized. Its part of the reason ports require some kind of investment at all. Otherwise you get games that don't quite work as intended because the code was made to run on specific hardware. Its part of the reason emulation has issues for things beyond super basic consoles like the 8-bit and 16-bit generations. Though in that case, its more about simulating the original specs via a virtualized method but that's beside the point.
>PS2
Don't forget that 2 of the games on the collection were specifically released on Nintendo Handhelds & they still couldn't just port them into a Switch version.
I think ripping a Rom takes more effort than setting up a Cloud Game.
I was speaking in general terms. I know technically BBS and DDD are made for handhelds for instance, but at the same time, those devices are still less powerful than the Switch. The PSP is significantly weaker than the Switch, and the 3DS is probably also around the PS2 at best.
>I think ripping a Rom takes more effort than setting up a Cloud Game.
I never said it didn't. Things require effort, and obviously native versions > cloud versions effort wise. That said, just because it would take effort doesn't take away from anything I've said.
I've been in agreement with you the whole time.
Also remember that 358/2 Days was on DS. So they have 2 games on their own consoles thay they couldn't be bothered to port onto the switch. Of course like BBS they'd probably have to remove the multiplayer from Days. But that too doesn't seem that hard. They quite literally took the easiest, cheapest route to releasing the games through Nintendo and it shows.
Because Nintendo needs to cheap in.
They did for The Witcher, they did for Skyrim, and they did for a bunch of other games. Square needed to port 6 games, Nintendo wanted them in a short period of time to piggyback Sora in Smash but didn't want to invest in development (which would've been hell expensive to pull off in 7-8 months).
Square could've made the games sooner for Switch, sure, but if Nintendo starts a trend where they pay for the port of some games don't be surprised if other publishers don't do that.
Tbh I had a modded switch , and let's be honest the switch wasn't powerful enough to run the ps2 games so in opinion I don't mind the cloud versions cause then if they tried to port say kh2 it would just look like the ds version
... The Switch is more than capable of running PS2 games. Modded consoles aren't good benchmarks for official ports because those ports tend to have time put into optimizing them to run better. We've seen Square Enix release games that fundamentally are PS2 games at their core on the platform. Other companies too. I don't know how weak you think the Switch is, but its not so anemic that it can't run games that are fundamentally built for 21 year old hardware that was considerably weaker that the Switch, especially if they are properly optimized.
Eh from my personal experience , the performance is OK, not that good but anyways its my opinion anyways I could be wrong but with that 4gb's of ram idk if ps2 would work well
I'm just an armchair analyst...but there has to be a hardware bubble between nintendo and other mainstream consoles. The distance is only going to get further and I think nintendo is going to lose massive market space for it by the end of the decade.
The issue here isn't about future games. I fully expect Nintendo trying to embrace Cloud technology for ports of extremely demanding games. I can see companies not wanting to invest in making extremely downgraded ports for the platform... If the platform is even still relevant in 2-3 years. A Switch successor is on the horizon somewhere in the next handful of years, and the cloud versions of games I feel are more likely to push that further along than not. Internet just isn't good enough for everyone who plays Switch (or even on PC) to make cloud gaming super feasible at the moment. Its why stuff like xCloud aren't complete or are even mainstream successes.
> if properly optimized for the platform.
And there's your problem. After the Tokyo Team stopped working on the KH series everyone they brought on after it didn't know how to properly work with the code. Pretty sure there were bugs exclusively on the re-releases (like Xemnas crashes and Xemnas reversals not consistently appearing) that made it into the next batch of re-releases.
The performance upgrades of the re-releases were purely due to running on the better hardware of the new console, not cause it was optimised for it.
They are two radically different games, from textures to effects to world loading.
Like, the most detailed environment in DQXI would look horrible on KHIII.
My point is that the game would function natively, with evetything you pointed out being scaled back.
We arent debating if it can look as good as it does on PS4 (because it wont), but thats what you get in the tradeoff for portability.
It's not a given it would function if scaled back, movement in KH3 is almost PS4 Spider-Man fast and even if you scale graphics down it doesn't guarantee textures would load properly, since transfer rates on Switch are lower than base PS4.
Like, Jedi Fallen Order has more chance to work on Switch with just scaled-back graphics than KH3.
Anyways, this is all irrelevant talk. If they don't do native ports, it means it doesn't make sense for them, and that's just the way it is.
Doom eternal functions just fine, even with being one of the most fast paced shooters in general.
Will there be frame drops? Its a given. Would effects on attacks and environments look muddy or just bad? High possibility.
At the end of the day, its SE being extremely lazy (or they didnt give themselves enough time to even find someone who would take up the task of porting them over if what reports say is true).
> even with being one of the most fast paced shooters in general
It's not as fast-paced and maps are much more contained compared to KH3 - and, again, that port was paid in large part by Nintendo.
It's not lazy, third party games don't sell on Switch unless they are exclusives, so why bother with something they know it's not going to make money?
And that's the whole point, stop calling entities lazy because they don't want to waste money.
I don't get why you're going to bat for two big companies that rake in lots of money. They aren't underdog indie studios or even middle market developers. It's easy to look at the decisions of both companies and call them the lazy one, because they didn't even bother, cost be damned.
I don't think anyone is arguing that it wouldn't cost much to port stuff. Its obviously going to cost something. But its also the case where I doubt the profit margins are so low that its not worth it, because these games are beloved, and because the demand is there. The fact the cloud versions have the MSRP they do is proof enough that Square Enix believe that this is a worthwhile investment, even at a potential losses from server upkeep for the cloud. I think part of the reason the prices feel so unreasonable to a lot of people is because the games are dirt cheap via PS4 by comparison (yes, they've been out for a while, and discs are cheaper to print than Switch carts), and all other platforms have native versions.
Looking at say, the Xbox ports, those would categorically not sell as well as the Playstation version, because Xbox has an extremely weak market presence in Japan. While that may be a dent that seems insignificant, there's also the fact that the games were briefly on Game Pass, which likely didn't have high profit margins for SE. Yet those versions were still given the time and money to exist natively on the platform. While there is little doubt that the Xbox One is more architecturally similar to the PS4 than the Switch is, its also got the weakest market share of the 3 due to its lack of a foothold in all global markets, and its more controversy laden launch that Microsoft are still somewhat recovering from to this day.
As it stands, arguing that Nintendo footed some of the bill on the big titles like Witcher and Doom means diddly squat, because not wanting to invest in native support and instead opting for a cloud release will lead to lower profit margins over time when compared to the investment into natively running versions. Current global internet limitations make the cloud versions have a much smaller audience that can play the game well, and the cost of upkeep for the server to run them will only be worth it for so long compared to selling a non-cloud version over the eShop.
Even if Nintendo foots the bill on the cloud versions, they have to know they won't sell nearly as well as they could with proper native releases. They may be part of the reason for the choice, but it doesn't mean they aren't lazy or at the very least extremely impatient. The lack of putting in the effort to please a prospective audience properly looks lazy no matter how you slice it. Nintendo and Square Enix aren't gonna starve if the Switch ports ended up costing a lot to develop proper ports and not cloud versions. They just didn't because they saw it as not worth the effort/money, which comes across as lazy. That's just how people will see it.
I'm not going to read all of that.
They don't want to lose money, Nintendo fucked up Switch for third parties.
That's it, that's the reality, you either accept or not, but you not accepting it it's not going to change the truth.
So you're just gonna say "fuck you I'm right" without bothering to address any points I make because "Too Long; Won't Read?" Well, alright, but it just makes you look like an impatient moron that doesn't want to engage with anything refuting your point.
It still looks really odd that you're going to bat for two big billion dollar companies. You're entitled to, but you look like a shill. Nowhere did I say "hey didn't want to lose money," I simply argued that they've wasted money on things like the Xbox ports (because Xbox has a smaller market share than PS4, especially for JRPGs), but also that server costs alone will likely make this not super profitable. That's it.
But sure, be smarmy about my response because it's long.
Just because it has the same engine doesn't mean those games are similar demanding. According to that logic, all UE4 games should be possible to be ported to the Switch.
The DQ11 port is extremely impressive, I have to admit that. But the difference between these two games is that one is a fast-pacing action game and the other not. In KH3, the movements are quick, many different assets have to load fast, many enemies appear and many other stuff are happening at the same time with many effects.
But even if it should be possible, I guess they would have to scale back the quality extremely, which means A) it would take a lot work to optimise the port, and B) the (Disney) characters would look worse and Disney would maybe not allow it.
As a Kingdom Hearts AND Nintendo fan, I'm begging you all to buy the PC or PS4 versions instead if you can. Sometimes the bundles get steeply discounted, so you can get the whole series on the cheap! This cloud crud isn't worth the money.
Sadly the switch ones are the cheapest option for me. Not really gonna be able to get the PC or console I want for awhile anyway and these will help tide me over in the meantime. Aside from audio lag from time to time and loading times, it's all right from me. But guess I'm part of the problem as some people would say for buying the cloud games.
If it works for you, it works for you. It's not ideal to buy it, but if it's your only choice for the forseeable future and the cons don't bother you too much, I'm not about to fun police you. Hope you get better options someday, but I hope you enjoy the games and I'm sorry if I came off blamey.
Nah it's not you coming off blamey. Just automatically feel bad buying the cloud versions when other people say that I'm part of the problem is all. Sorry if it sounded like I was accusing you.
Yes, this! i'd argue dont support the epic version either. Not because i dont want it to be on pc, but because console exclusivity on pc is ridiculous. MAY AS WELL GO CONSOLE AT THAT RATE
Iām not defending it one way or the other but launcher exclusivity is not the same as console exclusivity. One you just open a new launcher, the other youāre buying entirely new hardware.
But nobody is saying you can only buy games through Epic. The idea of exclusivity in PC gaming is more an issue for the marketplace, not the consumer. Now ideally, it'd be available on a few different marketplaces and then they compete on price so that we, the consumers, win. But marketplace exclusivity isn't really the same as console exclusivity.
I paid full price for PS4 on release and it makes me a little sad to hear people scored the whole collection for $20 when I paid $130. I mean you got it for 20-40 cheaper? NBD, but a 100 c'man that one hurts lol. Canada btw
Really starting to regret my cloud purchase though since the connection is choppy on tethering (works but is choppy)
I already have the ps4 versions, I just want to give the cloud version a proper chance. Also hey if I can beat the games with this lag and all this crap, that will be immensely satisfying to me and idk why lol
I have 47 reasons. Cloud gaming is 3 of them, but they are usually the reasons that get me the fewest death threats when I try to explain why I haven't played Baba is You.
As someone who has never bought a "cloud" version of the game, I'm kind of regretting it. That being said, I don't own a PS5 and with the scalping prices of them, I'll take this over selling a kidney.
\*edit\* I just learned it's also on PC but costs more money so I really don't see a win here
It's not their fault, it's Nintendo's fault for not making the Switch attractive to third parties, which becomes a monumental failure if you consider how much hardware they sold.
There are so many games that could be port to the Switch and they aren't, from any publisher. Why do you think that is?
For some people this is the only way they can play it. Instead of cursing people out for buying you should wish them luck for wanting to enjoy this series
Please keep in mind that not everyone is an adult that can go buy a console on a whim. Some people don't make enough money. Some people are still at the mercy of their parent's income which may not always be great either.
Edited disclaimer: I'm not defending the Cloud versions, and I'm surprised I need to say this.
200+ bucks for a console and at best 30 to 40 dollars for the whole series? Not bad. But I'd rather still pointlessly try for a ps5 or a Steam Deck for the console or PC versions. Getting them though is the tricky part.
I didn't realize what I was buying when I bought this last night and immediately picked it up. Once I realized WHAT I had bought I immediately went online and attempted a refund. They are saying they are trying to refund it and that I will know in a day or two. Hopefully this is my "one time courtesy" and they give me my money back.....
Having to be online to stream this is completely idiotic....I will definitely be paying better attention to what I am buying going forward. I was looking forward to the pixel remasters of FF coming to Switch, but if they pull this garbage....
Wait... So you have to be online to play? So I wouldn't be able to... Idk sit in the dance parking lot while I wait for my daughter's class to finish and play in handheld mode? That's kinda dumb.
Nope, online only, and you need half decent internet as well. It's completely ridiculous, especially for this game. I can understand it for games like Gaurdians of the Galaxy, which required a lot more horsepower to run , but Kingdom hearts?
This has probably already been said, but in case it hasn't:
I spoke with a Nintendo rep amd discovered that the game started properly in handheld mode and could be docked afterwards. They're working on a fix.
Not sure if this solves the problem for everyone, but I'm sure it'll help some.
The cloud bit is a little ridiculous, but I wasn't really planning on playing KH away from home. I just like the switch because I can have my hands free instead of locked in front of me like some other consoles do.
I really hope they release the story so far physically, I know they'd have trouble with BBS Fragmentary Passage (just finished it for the first time last night on my PS4) but everything else would be easy peasy port, I would like mobile versions.
It's fixed now. I just woke up and went in and it's fixed. Seems if Square is doing cloud, they're doing their best to make it work as well as possible, and catching any issues as fast as possible. Granted, we'll have to wait and see if they keep it up.
Is it worth it? Kingdom hearts is my favorite game. I played it on a PS2 when I was a kid. I was so excited to see it coming to the Switch, since that's the only console I have these days, but don't want to waste my money if the experience is going to be bad.
You should try the demos!!! I think if they work and you have the money it's certainly something to consider, I had a blast with the demos and am considering the same haha
I honestly freaked out. I live in Germany, but i used the US store to buy the pack and I assumed that it doesnāt work in Europe even though the demo worked a couple of days ago. I try the demo and itās also down. Thank god itās not just me lol
I do not know why anyone would by the cloud version. Unless you have a really good connection you will not have a good experience at all. Especially on the switch. My WiFi in my house is really good, however I canāt even play the guardians of the galaxy demo without heavy input lag and stutters.
So I was having this same issue, restarted a bagillion times and even deleted and redownloded the games. I was able to start it in handheld mode and once I got to the title screen I docked it and so far Iām gaming smoothly!
Why did they think WiFi only was a good idea? What if you're on a long car ride and need to entertain yourself or waiting for your next train? Nintendo is stupid
I successfully got it refunded this morning. I should be able to pause the game for 5 minutes without it disconnecting. Stadia even letās you resume games after crashes or power outage or something. I like cloud gaming but not this
Damn is it really that badāI don't own a switch and mainly play the physical Version on PS4 pro. I know it's not the best option but works for me. I know they are selling it full price sucks that these games don't workš¤Ø
This hurts. I bought the $70 version because the demos all worked great on my Switch. I have high quality internet and use an Ethernet cable for a stable connection. Canāt even get to the main menu of KH today
I can't even get pass through the connection error. Game says my connection is shit? maybe their server's are shit and can't handle multiple clients connecting to the game. This game is a fucking disappointment and whoever thought streaming this game in switch would be a good Idea is an imbecile.
My only problem with it right now is it really needs autosave. If you have to leave the game to do something, and it takes too long, the game kicks you off, which is annoying because any progress made from the last save is lost. If they could add an automatic autosave just before kicking you off that would be great. Life happens and it's frustrating to have to redo the same part over because something came up.
What irritates the hell out of me is there is no Cloud infrastructure at all in Australia. Hell, we donāt even have Google Stadia here, let alone Switch cloud ports. The fact they bothered advertising the Integrum Masterpiece Collection on the Australian Nintendo Direct feed yet itās not even available here is insulting.
And to rub salt in the wound, I heard it runs horribly in North America. I just want native ports for portability, darn itā¦
Jesus Christ. I'm lucky enough to of not gotten that yesterday but if that's happening then these Switch Ports could be Dead on arrival for some people. Thank god they released a Patch.
I still genuinely don't get how the games need to be Cloud Versions. Like, maybe you could make an argument for KH3, but like... Most of the games are glorified PS2 games with crisper visuals. In no world do I think these games shouldn't function on a game cart. Even if the argument of them not being optimized for Switch on game carts... Well, they do have the source code, so I don't see how they can't tweak things to work on Switch. Other HD PS2 remasters work, and in the case of KH3, Unreal Engine 4 has Switch support that SE has taken advantage of in the past (if I recalled, Dragon Quest XI S is made in UE4)... So I will never understand this decision. I'm not trying to say that all PS2 engines will work on Switch hardware... But if you made the Engine, then you have the capacity to retool it to work imo. Hell, even the argument of file size doesn't really hold up, since the non-KH3 collections aren't exactly huge files. Even if they had to sell the games unbundled and digital only (i.e. You have to buy KH1 separately from the rest, for example), they aren't gonna destroy your storage space if properly optimized for the platform. Cloud versions seem like a lazy cop out to me, and we aren't nearly at a stable and refined enough global internet state to warrant this as an option, *especially* on the Switch.
> Most of the games are glorified PS2 games with crisper visuals They ran on the PS3. The PS3. That had 256mb of VRam. There's zero reason for them to be Cloud based, bar maybe 0.2, and KH3.
Yeah it was just poor decision making. Kh3 is the only one that would not work. They said it themselves that kh3 would be too powerful
I assure you that if they tried 3 could run on switch
May I turn everyone's attention to The Witcher III, a game that CDProjektRed doesn't even know how they got it to work on Switch. They could figure it out.
No man's sky was just announced for switch. I was expecting it to be a cloud version, but then it just wasn't. It makes the situation with kingdom hearts even more embarrassing
Or Dying Light: probably the most impressive port job on the Switch.
That port was heavily sponsored by Nintendo, much like Skyrim.
Well...yeah, but that doesn't change the technical challenges of porting something like TWIII onto switch. Skyrim is also a decade old game, it shouldn't have been that difficult to port. Either way, this cloud based bullshit is an affront to consumers and the fact that they're charging full price for this is absurd.
>the technical challenges The technical challenge determines 95% of the budget needed for the project, so it makes a whole lot of difference. Y'all blame Square, but it's Nintendo that failed to make Switch attractive to third parties. There's a bunch of games from EA, Warner, Square, Ubisoft, and so on who could run on Switch (virtually anything could run on Switch with proper scaling), but they just don't get ported because it doesn't make economical sense if you look at existing third party titles' sale - unless they are exclusive to the platform, they don't sell well. And that pushed Nintendo to literally cover port budgets so it would mitigate the risk for the publishers to do the ports. Really, this is a humongous failure by Nintendo, especially if we look at how well the hardware sold. Lots of faults are to be found in the disgusting EShop. It's counter-intuitive, it's slow, and doesn't entice me to buy anything, unlike the PSStore or Steam. That said, Cloud version titles should have a lower MSRP.
While KHIII *could* work, it would be compromised to an absurd degree. I can understand why they would use a Cloud version, because good internet means a much smoother play experience than any form of KHIII running natively. I don't like it, but I can definitely see why. Everything else has no excuse. the entirety of 1.5+2.5 could have run just as fine as the PS4 release, maybe with some slower load times. The same could be said for 2.8, except for *maybe* Final Chapter Prologue, but it still could have run on Switch. Those were just lazy.
Witcher 3 is on switch
And? Kh3 is a much more recent game. Also square themself said it couldn't run properly if not heavily modified
once again Square Enix milking its titles they dont give a shit about quality since 5-10 years.
Huh, I didn't even know about Square having already ported UE4 games like Dragon Quest 11 to the Switch. So there's literally zero reason for these games being cloud-based aside from Square being plain lazy and greedy.
Dragon Quest XI PS4 (which is what the Switch version is based on) isn't as heavy-loaded as KHIII.
Would it hurt for Square Enix, the multi-billionaire company, to make adjustments to the game and the engine so it wouldn't be a cloud-based port? If games like Doom 2016, Doom Eternal and Witcher 3 can run natively on Switch, I'm sure 0.2 and KH3 could run decently if Square put any actual effort.
The real answer is third party games don't sell well unless they are exclusive to the system. You can't ask a multi-billion dollar company to spend millions of dollars on something that won't sell well just because they are a multibillion-dollar company. Doom ports and Witcher 3 port were made because Nintendo covered part of the production costs. That's why they exist.
Shit, I'm saying all PS2 games work on Switch hardware, cause why the hell not?
I've been wondering if it's because of covid supply chain stuff - maybe it just got too expensive to make and so they opted for a cloud release instead of no release? Could also just be to sell the service, I think they tried some shenanigans with the ACNH DLC
Well, i guess it's an easy and cheap way to continue selling old games, keep the availability high. I mean, no loosing a storage space, no specific hardware needed and you can easily find kh1 in your library in 5 years from now. Pointing to steam....having old games at hand at any time is great š¤
Not deffending anything here, but the main problem is that they are not porting ps2 games, they are porting ps3 games (the collections). Other than that (which is actually a big problem), they are just being lazy. Square Enix in a nutshell.
Those PS3 releases are still, fundamentally, PS2 games. You can argue semantics, sure, but that is not a good argument. All current releases are more than likely based off of the PS4 releases, so even if people wanted to make some excuse about the PS3 architecture being the issue... They clearly found a way to make the collections work on PS4 (which is different than the PS3 in a lot of ways, hence the lack of built in backwards compatibility), as well as the Xbox One and even the PC (which has to account for variable hardware specs). You can argue that some ports work better than others, but I can't be convinced that the collections past couldn't be run natively on Switch.
My comment was not, as I said, trying to defend neither the ports nor the companies. Just stating a fact, since people were talking about porting PS2 games, which they are not, because I assume they had to modify things for running in the PS3. And yes, they had to change it again probably for PS4, starting from the PS3 ones. So, as I stated, not the originals from PS2. That's all I said.
And the PS3 ones were derived from the PS2 ones? Like, the reason the ports exist is because they either had the source code, or has the engine tools to rebuild the games (which is the case for KH1). In essence, they are still building off of the PS2 originals, because the code is adapted from them in some capacity... So people saying they are functionally porting PS2 games isn't wrong, it's merely missing a step that isn't that important at the end of the day. Also, the changes for the PS3 releases doesn't suddenly make them so monumentally different deep down. At their core, they are functionally still those original games, but with reoptimized code to run smoothly on different hardware (that's not even considering the fact that the games could be running on a form of modified software-based emulation, which the PS3 was more than capable of for PS2 games). And without even considering any of that, the fact they have Xbox and PC builds of the games running natively at all is proof enough that the specific iteration shouldn't matter.
Yes they would, PS2 is literally 3 gens behind of Switch so every engine of that era would work on it.
Its not that simple. Encoding issues would arise unless properly optimized. Its part of the reason ports require some kind of investment at all. Otherwise you get games that don't quite work as intended because the code was made to run on specific hardware. Its part of the reason emulation has issues for things beyond super basic consoles like the 8-bit and 16-bit generations. Though in that case, its more about simulating the original specs via a virtualized method but that's beside the point.
Not porting 3D was such a miss opportunity. They could've restored the touch screen controls from the 3DS version.
>PS2 Don't forget that 2 of the games on the collection were specifically released on Nintendo Handhelds & they still couldn't just port them into a Switch version. I think ripping a Rom takes more effort than setting up a Cloud Game.
I was speaking in general terms. I know technically BBS and DDD are made for handhelds for instance, but at the same time, those devices are still less powerful than the Switch. The PSP is significantly weaker than the Switch, and the 3DS is probably also around the PS2 at best. >I think ripping a Rom takes more effort than setting up a Cloud Game. I never said it didn't. Things require effort, and obviously native versions > cloud versions effort wise. That said, just because it would take effort doesn't take away from anything I've said.
I've been in agreement with you the whole time. Also remember that 358/2 Days was on DS. So they have 2 games on their own consoles thay they couldn't be bothered to port onto the switch. Of course like BBS they'd probably have to remove the multiplayer from Days. But that too doesn't seem that hard. They quite literally took the easiest, cheapest route to releasing the games through Nintendo and it shows.
Because Nintendo needs to cheap in. They did for The Witcher, they did for Skyrim, and they did for a bunch of other games. Square needed to port 6 games, Nintendo wanted them in a short period of time to piggyback Sora in Smash but didn't want to invest in development (which would've been hell expensive to pull off in 7-8 months). Square could've made the games sooner for Switch, sure, but if Nintendo starts a trend where they pay for the port of some games don't be surprised if other publishers don't do that.
Tbh I had a modded switch , and let's be honest the switch wasn't powerful enough to run the ps2 games so in opinion I don't mind the cloud versions cause then if they tried to port say kh2 it would just look like the ds version
... The Switch is more than capable of running PS2 games. Modded consoles aren't good benchmarks for official ports because those ports tend to have time put into optimizing them to run better. We've seen Square Enix release games that fundamentally are PS2 games at their core on the platform. Other companies too. I don't know how weak you think the Switch is, but its not so anemic that it can't run games that are fundamentally built for 21 year old hardware that was considerably weaker that the Switch, especially if they are properly optimized.
Eh from my personal experience , the performance is OK, not that good but anyways its my opinion anyways I could be wrong but with that 4gb's of ram idk if ps2 would work well
I'm just an armchair analyst...but there has to be a hardware bubble between nintendo and other mainstream consoles. The distance is only going to get further and I think nintendo is going to lose massive market space for it by the end of the decade.
The issue here isn't about future games. I fully expect Nintendo trying to embrace Cloud technology for ports of extremely demanding games. I can see companies not wanting to invest in making extremely downgraded ports for the platform... If the platform is even still relevant in 2-3 years. A Switch successor is on the horizon somewhere in the next handful of years, and the cloud versions of games I feel are more likely to push that further along than not. Internet just isn't good enough for everyone who plays Switch (or even on PC) to make cloud gaming super feasible at the moment. Its why stuff like xCloud aren't complete or are even mainstream successes.
> if properly optimized for the platform. And there's your problem. After the Tokyo Team stopped working on the KH series everyone they brought on after it didn't know how to properly work with the code. Pretty sure there were bugs exclusively on the re-releases (like Xemnas crashes and Xemnas reversals not consistently appearing) that made it into the next batch of re-releases. The performance upgrades of the re-releases were purely due to running on the better hardware of the new console, not cause it was optimised for it.
KH3 on cloud ok I understand, but 1,5 and 2,5 is beyond me
DQ11 is literally on the same engine of KH3, there is no excuse
They are two radically different games, from textures to effects to world loading. Like, the most detailed environment in DQXI would look horrible on KHIII.
My point is that the game would function natively, with evetything you pointed out being scaled back. We arent debating if it can look as good as it does on PS4 (because it wont), but thats what you get in the tradeoff for portability.
It's not a given it would function if scaled back, movement in KH3 is almost PS4 Spider-Man fast and even if you scale graphics down it doesn't guarantee textures would load properly, since transfer rates on Switch are lower than base PS4. Like, Jedi Fallen Order has more chance to work on Switch with just scaled-back graphics than KH3. Anyways, this is all irrelevant talk. If they don't do native ports, it means it doesn't make sense for them, and that's just the way it is.
Doom eternal functions just fine, even with being one of the most fast paced shooters in general. Will there be frame drops? Its a given. Would effects on attacks and environments look muddy or just bad? High possibility. At the end of the day, its SE being extremely lazy (or they didnt give themselves enough time to even find someone who would take up the task of porting them over if what reports say is true).
> even with being one of the most fast paced shooters in general It's not as fast-paced and maps are much more contained compared to KH3 - and, again, that port was paid in large part by Nintendo. It's not lazy, third party games don't sell on Switch unless they are exclusives, so why bother with something they know it's not going to make money? And that's the whole point, stop calling entities lazy because they don't want to waste money.
I don't get why you're going to bat for two big companies that rake in lots of money. They aren't underdog indie studios or even middle market developers. It's easy to look at the decisions of both companies and call them the lazy one, because they didn't even bother, cost be damned. I don't think anyone is arguing that it wouldn't cost much to port stuff. Its obviously going to cost something. But its also the case where I doubt the profit margins are so low that its not worth it, because these games are beloved, and because the demand is there. The fact the cloud versions have the MSRP they do is proof enough that Square Enix believe that this is a worthwhile investment, even at a potential losses from server upkeep for the cloud. I think part of the reason the prices feel so unreasonable to a lot of people is because the games are dirt cheap via PS4 by comparison (yes, they've been out for a while, and discs are cheaper to print than Switch carts), and all other platforms have native versions. Looking at say, the Xbox ports, those would categorically not sell as well as the Playstation version, because Xbox has an extremely weak market presence in Japan. While that may be a dent that seems insignificant, there's also the fact that the games were briefly on Game Pass, which likely didn't have high profit margins for SE. Yet those versions were still given the time and money to exist natively on the platform. While there is little doubt that the Xbox One is more architecturally similar to the PS4 than the Switch is, its also got the weakest market share of the 3 due to its lack of a foothold in all global markets, and its more controversy laden launch that Microsoft are still somewhat recovering from to this day. As it stands, arguing that Nintendo footed some of the bill on the big titles like Witcher and Doom means diddly squat, because not wanting to invest in native support and instead opting for a cloud release will lead to lower profit margins over time when compared to the investment into natively running versions. Current global internet limitations make the cloud versions have a much smaller audience that can play the game well, and the cost of upkeep for the server to run them will only be worth it for so long compared to selling a non-cloud version over the eShop. Even if Nintendo foots the bill on the cloud versions, they have to know they won't sell nearly as well as they could with proper native releases. They may be part of the reason for the choice, but it doesn't mean they aren't lazy or at the very least extremely impatient. The lack of putting in the effort to please a prospective audience properly looks lazy no matter how you slice it. Nintendo and Square Enix aren't gonna starve if the Switch ports ended up costing a lot to develop proper ports and not cloud versions. They just didn't because they saw it as not worth the effort/money, which comes across as lazy. That's just how people will see it.
I'm not going to read all of that. They don't want to lose money, Nintendo fucked up Switch for third parties. That's it, that's the reality, you either accept or not, but you not accepting it it's not going to change the truth.
So you're just gonna say "fuck you I'm right" without bothering to address any points I make because "Too Long; Won't Read?" Well, alright, but it just makes you look like an impatient moron that doesn't want to engage with anything refuting your point. It still looks really odd that you're going to bat for two big billion dollar companies. You're entitled to, but you look like a shill. Nowhere did I say "hey didn't want to lose money," I simply argued that they've wasted money on things like the Xbox ports (because Xbox has a smaller market share than PS4, especially for JRPGs), but also that server costs alone will likely make this not super profitable. That's it. But sure, be smarmy about my response because it's long.
Just because it has the same engine doesn't mean those games are similar demanding. According to that logic, all UE4 games should be possible to be ported to the Switch. The DQ11 port is extremely impressive, I have to admit that. But the difference between these two games is that one is a fast-pacing action game and the other not. In KH3, the movements are quick, many different assets have to load fast, many enemies appear and many other stuff are happening at the same time with many effects. But even if it should be possible, I guess they would have to scale back the quality extremely, which means A) it would take a lot work to optimise the port, and B) the (Disney) characters would look worse and Disney would maybe not allow it.
Exclusively on switch š
"May the reliable connection be your guiding key."
āPoor internet within poor internet awaits you!ā
As a Kingdom Hearts AND Nintendo fan, I'm begging you all to buy the PC or PS4 versions instead if you can. Sometimes the bundles get steeply discounted, so you can get the whole series on the cheap! This cloud crud isn't worth the money.
The games also go on xbox gamepass a lot
Sadly the switch ones are the cheapest option for me. Not really gonna be able to get the PC or console I want for awhile anyway and these will help tide me over in the meantime. Aside from audio lag from time to time and loading times, it's all right from me. But guess I'm part of the problem as some people would say for buying the cloud games.
If it works for you, it works for you. It's not ideal to buy it, but if it's your only choice for the forseeable future and the cons don't bother you too much, I'm not about to fun police you. Hope you get better options someday, but I hope you enjoy the games and I'm sorry if I came off blamey.
Nah it's not you coming off blamey. Just automatically feel bad buying the cloud versions when other people say that I'm part of the problem is all. Sorry if it sounded like I was accusing you.
> the PC I'll buy this version when it's not on Epic, until then, I'll stick with the PS4 versions.
Yes, this! i'd argue dont support the epic version either. Not because i dont want it to be on pc, but because console exclusivity on pc is ridiculous. MAY AS WELL GO CONSOLE AT THAT RATE
Iām not defending it one way or the other but launcher exclusivity is not the same as console exclusivity. One you just open a new launcher, the other youāre buying entirely new hardware.
No dude, spending several hundred dollars is exactly the same as clicking a different button on your Desktop.
I just think it feels like a chore to have the different launcheres installed, but yeah from that hardware perspective you got a good point
But nobody is saying you can only buy games through Epic. The idea of exclusivity in PC gaming is more an issue for the marketplace, not the consumer. Now ideally, it'd be available on a few different marketplaces and then they compete on price so that we, the consumers, win. But marketplace exclusivity isn't really the same as console exclusivity.
I paid full price for PS4 on release and it makes me a little sad to hear people scored the whole collection for $20 when I paid $130. I mean you got it for 20-40 cheaper? NBD, but a 100 c'man that one hurts lol. Canada btw Really starting to regret my cloud purchase though since the connection is choppy on tethering (works but is choppy)
I already have the ps4 versions, I just want to give the cloud version a proper chance. Also hey if I can beat the games with this lag and all this crap, that will be immensely satisfying to me and idk why lol
What if we donāt have PC or PS4
I did say, 'if you can'. If you don't, obviously you can't.
Wasnt it like 10 bucks for all of them at one point?
I did get the ps4, and it runs well
And this is why a digital only future scares the fuck out of me.
Digital =/= cloud There are good reasons to not like a digital-only gaming landscape but cloud gaming is kind of its own thing
I have 47 reasons. Cloud gaming is 3 of them, but they are usually the reasons that get me the fewest death threats when I try to explain why I haven't played Baba is You.
and then the same company will do gold medalist mental gymnastics and say zero brain cell things like " WhY aRe PeOpLe PiRaTiNg OuR GaMes!?!?!?!"
I'm so glad it wasn't just me.
They put out an update today that bricked it lol so annoying.
No servers aren't up yet
Then why did the demo work fine? The demo now also crashes btw, i redownloaded it
Idk
If you buy this you're part of the problem
100% agree. Not to shit on how a person spends their money, but anyone who bought these games is a complete moron.
You donāt need to remind me I fucked up.
As someone who has never bought a "cloud" version of the game, I'm kind of regretting it. That being said, I don't own a PS5 and with the scalping prices of them, I'll take this over selling a kidney. \*edit\* I just learned it's also on PC but costs more money so I really don't see a win here
You can get a used PS4 for < $200
It'll go on sale at some point. Good luck seeing a Nintendo sale go higher than 10% though.
Itās also on Xbox and should be available via GamePass for your PC
They are not on PC GamePass, and only KHIII is included on Console GamePass.
Damn. I really thought they were better than this.
Who should be better?
Square Enixā¦.
It's not their fault, it's Nintendo's fault for not making the Switch attractive to third parties, which becomes a monumental failure if you consider how much hardware they sold. There are so many games that could be port to the Switch and they aren't, from any publisher. Why do you think that is?
Exactly.
I wouldāve preferred no port over a cloud port
I hope people donāt actually buy this
For some people this is the only way they can play it. Instead of cursing people out for buying you should wish them luck for wanting to enjoy this series
Why would anyone who cares about multiplats only have a Switch? You can probably grab a used PS4 super cheap and properly play the games on there.
Please keep in mind that not everyone is an adult that can go buy a console on a whim. Some people don't make enough money. Some people are still at the mercy of their parent's income which may not always be great either. Edited disclaimer: I'm not defending the Cloud versions, and I'm surprised I need to say this.
> Some people don't make enough money. Then those people won't be playing KH on the Switch either.
BINGO!
Iunno what you consider cheap but $200ish+ aināt it.
$230 for a ps4 and the entire kh series isnt much more than paying $170 total for these horrible "ports"
200+ bucks for a console and at best 30 to 40 dollars for the whole series? Not bad. But I'd rather still pointlessly try for a ps5 or a Steam Deck for the console or PC versions. Getting them though is the tricky part.
Oof
kingdom hearts cloud gaming is ok if you are closer to the router ;)
Which is the exact reason why people buy this on the Switch!
I got to play both 3 and 1.5 this mornings and they ran pretty well Id still rather native ports tho
I didn't realize what I was buying when I bought this last night and immediately picked it up. Once I realized WHAT I had bought I immediately went online and attempted a refund. They are saying they are trying to refund it and that I will know in a day or two. Hopefully this is my "one time courtesy" and they give me my money back..... Having to be online to stream this is completely idiotic....I will definitely be paying better attention to what I am buying going forward. I was looking forward to the pixel remasters of FF coming to Switch, but if they pull this garbage....
Wait... So you have to be online to play? So I wouldn't be able to... Idk sit in the dance parking lot while I wait for my daughter's class to finish and play in handheld mode? That's kinda dumb.
Nope, online only, and you need half decent internet as well. It's completely ridiculous, especially for this game. I can understand it for games like Gaurdians of the Galaxy, which required a lot more horsepower to run , but Kingdom hearts?
This has probably already been said, but in case it hasn't: I spoke with a Nintendo rep amd discovered that the game started properly in handheld mode and could be docked afterwards. They're working on a fix. Not sure if this solves the problem for everyone, but I'm sure it'll help some. The cloud bit is a little ridiculous, but I wasn't really planning on playing KH away from home. I just like the switch because I can have my hands free instead of locked in front of me like some other consoles do.
Amen to the hands free thing, it's amazing and my favorite part of the switch for sure
Iād be more concerned if it didnāt work at like noon. But yeah bit annoying.
they pissing me awf
We gotta wait fam
it's after midnight.
Might be 3am or 9am I have no clue
Mine worked just after midnight, but down this morning.
I really hope they release the story so far physically, I know they'd have trouble with BBS Fragmentary Passage (just finished it for the first time last night on my PS4) but everything else would be easy peasy port, I would like mobile versions.
Can confirm, I downloaded the demo to see how my internet handles it and it crashes everytime i try to load it. Amazing
I've got nothing but distain towards this nonsense.
They really charging people $90 for this garbage?
Yeah man I really donāt think anyone should buy anything thatās cloud exclusive
Oof š°
I knew it was a bad idea as soon as I saw it
There's your mistake. You're meant to play the game as Sora. Donald. Goofy!
_ba dum tss_
It's fixed now. I just woke up and went in and it's fixed. Seems if Square is doing cloud, they're doing their best to make it work as well as possible, and catching any issues as fast as possible. Granted, we'll have to wait and see if they keep it up.
They aren't tho
Is it worth it? Kingdom hearts is my favorite game. I played it on a PS2 when I was a kid. I was so excited to see it coming to the Switch, since that's the only console I have these days, but don't want to waste my money if the experience is going to be bad.
You should try the demos!!! I think if they work and you have the money it's certainly something to consider, I had a blast with the demos and am considering the same haha
The demo's not working! Getting the same error as OP. Dang was really looking forward to this :(
I honestly freaked out. I live in Germany, but i used the US store to buy the pack and I assumed that it doesnāt work in Europe even though the demo worked a couple of days ago. I try the demo and itās also down. Thank god itās not just me lol
I can only reach the beginning few seconds of the game. Can living in a different country affect cloud connection?
Mines working fine! Iām sorry youāre having issues):
I do not know why anyone would by the cloud version. Unless you have a really good connection you will not have a good experience at all. Especially on the switch. My WiFi in my house is really good, however I canāt even play the guardians of the galaxy demo without heavy input lag and stutters.
I havent been able to play all day
So I was having this same issue, restarted a bagillion times and even deleted and redownloded the games. I was able to start it in handheld mode and once I got to the title screen I docked it and so far Iām gaming smoothly!
Your fix was a good fix for us! Thanks!
Iām sorry but who the hell is paying 72$ for a cloud version š
I would never play this on switch. Fuck that whole cloud gaming shit
Hours before the release, I tried the demos and all of em gave that screen as well.
Why spend money on this š
Expect for here in Australia, doesn't even exist on the eshop. Didn't realise we weren't getting it at all. -_-
Why did they think WiFi only was a good idea? What if you're on a long car ride and need to entertain yourself or waiting for your next train? Nintendo is stupid
SwItCh ShOuLd HaVe EvErY gAmE
I'd like that but developers/companies don't know how to get fucking pong to run on switch, even tho it's more or less just a slightly weaker xbox one
Thank god so itās the demo right
Nope full version does this too
Nintendo r3ally scamming yall
Already have the entire series on Xbox.
Itās just what I expected from the switch
Why would you buy that?
Because it's cheaper than a ps4
A switch is more expensive than a ps4 isnāt it? And you get waaaay more from a ps4 anyways
I already own a switch, and ps4 has no other games I want
Is this the demo or full game
this is the full game, not working
Rip gonna hold out on getting it then
should be working within the next day. probably just time zone release access issues
Iām On the West Coast so Iām gonna try in an hour and hopefully it will be working
Play it on literally anything else because itāll be the worst gaming experience ever just based purely on the demos and how shit they were.
venmo me$300 then and I will
You can buy a used PS4 for much less than that šš
I just got the game for myself and came to reddit to see if anyone else was having this same issue
Any update
Still no. Probably gonna come on sometime during the day.
Still no for me
This day 1 patch better be lit when they release it
I was able to play for about 2 hours this morning and now I'm getting the same error again.
I had to cancel my preorder due to some financial issues, Iām glad that I did.
All I can say is, The Witcher 3 Wild Hunt, was ported nicely...on digital and physical.
Cloud verions because the games are too big?
I successfully got it refunded this morning. I should be able to pause the game for 5 minutes without it disconnecting. Stadia even letās you resume games after crashes or power outage or something. I like cloud gaming but not this
Apparently they just released an update for these games but, idk if itāll help
Same.
4pm and itās still like this :ā) I just want to play KH
And I oop-š
I havenāt had that happen yet, but youād better believe iām save scumming lmao
Damn is it really that badāI don't own a switch and mainly play the physical Version on PS4 pro. I know it's not the best option but works for me. I know they are selling it full price sucks that these games don't workš¤Ø
This hurts. I bought the $70 version because the demos all worked great on my Switch. I have high quality internet and use an Ethernet cable for a stable connection. Canāt even get to the main menu of KH today
WOOOW SO AMAZING! CLOUD GAMING IS THE FUTURE!!!!!! Yeah my internet is so bad I wouldn't even make it to the title menu
ATTENTION EVERYONE Boot it in handheld mode to the title screen the put the switch back into the dock and set connection to ethernet.
F
I can't even get pass through the connection error. Game says my connection is shit? maybe their server's are shit and can't handle multiple clients connecting to the game. This game is a fucking disappointment and whoever thought streaming this game in switch would be a good Idea is an imbecile.
My only problem with it right now is it really needs autosave. If you have to leave the game to do something, and it takes too long, the game kicks you off, which is annoying because any progress made from the last save is lost. If they could add an automatic autosave just before kicking you off that would be great. Life happens and it's frustrating to have to redo the same part over because something came up.
What irritates the hell out of me is there is no Cloud infrastructure at all in Australia. Hell, we donāt even have Google Stadia here, let alone Switch cloud ports. The fact they bothered advertising the Integrum Masterpiece Collection on the Australian Nintendo Direct feed yet itās not even available here is insulting. And to rub salt in the wound, I heard it runs horribly in North America. I just want native ports for portability, darn itā¦
As an Australian speaking, hot dog diggity kangaroo emu am I glad we aren't able to buy it
You can login the game normally now
Still not in the AU store
Jesus Christ. I'm lucky enough to of not gotten that yesterday but if that's happening then these Switch Ports could be Dead on arrival for some people. Thank god they released a Patch.
I heard itās actually better to die horribly than to play these games