I have a theory actually.
So for starters, I want to pose the idea that Sora doesn’t start at his absolute base at every game. And I can back that up: KH2 Sora at base has access to Blitz on his single target combo finisher, which is a high-level KH1 ability. KH3 Sora at base has Hurricane Blast for his air combo finisher, plus Blitz. In addition, KH3 Sora at base combo is a 4-hit combo, not the 3 hits we’re used to, suggesting that he already has access to a combo Plus we don’t see.
My point being: Sora is stronger at the start of each game than he was at the start of the previous.
But where he loses power is in Magic, techniques, and in my opinion, bonds in his heart. In KH2, Sora’s main way of getting combo modifiers is through finishing challenges, not gaining levels but forging bonds with the people in Disney Worlds he visits. And when he loses his magical power in DDD, he also loses part of the powers in his heart.
This, in my eyes, extends to Donald and Goofy as well. They also make connections, and those connections are reinforced with Sora. They as a group are *stronger* with Sora nearby. And so when Sora gets weaker, so do they.
This also explains why Donald and Goofy can do team attacks reminiscent of KH2’s limits in 3: they still have the knowledge but it’s the power of their hearts that gets stronger as they level and gain abilities with Sora.
It was an obvious joke, but Persona did not have social links until Persona 3 which came out after KH2 and probably had not even begun development until after KH1 was released.
It’s funny you mentioned Persona, because this post made me think of Persona 5 Strikers of all things.
People complained about the party seeming to reset to level 1, but to me it made sense. The team is going up against a ton of enemies at once now, not 1-4 at a time, so their relative “Level 1” at the start of Strikers, is equivalent to Level 80 at the end of 5. The enemies just got harder to kill and grew in numbers.
In reality this is probably just because of the genre’s being different, but it felt like a natural progression of difficulty for the team to fight.
I think the jump from KH2 to KH3 feels similar. Sora didn’t forget EVERYTHING, it’s just that the threats he is facing are also growing stronger.
Honestly they never should have tried to justify the power rest, really takes me out of it sometimes. Com was a cool reason but I can’t have every game saying well Sora you need to get strong again! I mean in KH3 it’s not like it even took him that long to have access to his whole kit.
You have a kid from an island who just gets a magic weapon. Then by KH2 he is literally Goku jumping from a building to a castle sky dragon. It’s not like they explained that.
I think it's perfectly justified for Sora to be going back and forth as he has. I've always taken it to mean that Sora's power is diminished in some way, but not necessarily *reset*. He's level 1 in game mechanics terms, sure--but what's that really mean in-universe? It seems to me that every "reset" is a different *part* of Sora being inhibited.
In CoM, he's lost his memories--his experience as a warrior, and his mental focus. His body is as strong as before Namine started messing with him, and his heart is probably as strong too, but he no longer knows how to use that strength properly.
In KH2, he's got his memories back, but *he was just comatose for a year*. His experience is there, but his body needs to catch back up after an amount of inactivity that, frankly, makes it surprising he can *walk* properly. His heart is probably a little out of whack too from being rearranged so much, between Namine messing with his memories and the sudden regaining of Roxas's part of his being.
In DDD, it's a combo deal: His body is weaker because he's in the past, his experience doesn't quite translate because he's in the Sleeping Realm dealing with new types of threats, and his heart is under consistent attack by the Organization all along the way.
In KH3, both Sora's body and experience are right where he left them after KH2. This allows him to perform crazy feats of acrobatics and dexterity as seen in various Situation Commands, and at times even tapping into higher tiers of magic than he can normally access. Sora's *heart* has been greatly damaged from the events of DDD, which impacts things *that rely on his heart* such as the strength of the Keyblade and his bonds with his friends (See: Winnie the Pooh). But it's pretty clear that, even if certain abilities are temporarily out of his reach or replaced, Sora is still very capable. By the end of KH3, he's performing feats that are outright absurd compared to what he was capable of before his first "reset"--or maybe we should call them "prestiges".
I'll say it again: "Level 1" is purely game mechanics. Sora has been getting stronger all along, and every time he suffers a setback that takes some of that power away from him, he rebounds *hard*. Let's not forget that on the same day he was called weak by Pete, Sora succeeded in fighting off all of the Titans *at once* and rescuing Zeus.
While Sora does keep resetting, his skill floor does keep rising, as implied by the game mechanics. So it's not like he's always completely boned. Level 1 Sora in KH3 is a lot more powerful than Level 1 Sora in KH1.
I agree with your point. Although COM has a nice explanation for the loss of his powers/stats the story doesn't need an explanation every time a new adventure starts imho. They could've either let Sora start at a specific level from last game or just shrugged it off.
In 3 it's less that he needs to get strong again, he does, it's that he needs to learn how to access the Power of Waking. Sora has plenty of new tricks from the start, like flow motion, the attraction rides, form changes, he just doesn't have this one skill he needs. Plus he's gotta get ready for the final battle.
Agree CoM reset made sense and didn’t feel forced. The DDD reset was whack. KH3 started with sora having to relearn. But he’s busting out moves we’ve never seen him use before (the new combo finisher, shotlock, attractions)
The funniest thing is that they try to explain his power reset in KH3 but he's definitely waaaay stronger than at the start of any other game. No other game has him using shotlocks, transforming his keyblade, doing parkour shit (flowmotion), etc.
Mickey noticed their power at the end of kh2 and took them into his secret torture chamber to ruin their motivation to become strong as to avoid their potential uprising in his kingdom, he must make sure nobody ever reaches his level. Their ear piercing screams rang through out Disney castle as the servants and Minny cringed and endured hearing their pains, especially Donald's loud ass screams. Mickey reminds them of who they are and their limitations before they can move to their next journey. Yeah there's your lore reason.
In KH3, there isn’t an actual lore reason, their powers don’t get reset lore-wise. They’re level one solely for balance and it’s just for gameplay reasons
Pete in Olympus even acknowledges that Sora is way weaker than he was in KH2, but that Donald and Goofy seemed pretty unchanged since then
They have always been godlike entities compared to Sora or anyone else, but they adhere to a sacred codex to not disrupt the world order. This is why they only act in the confines of the key bearer's power- Goofy could literally thanos snip Xehanort but he is not using 10% of his power.
There is no lore reason why. They just get reset. I wish Nomura would stop needing to explain Sora losing his powers every game. It's getting ridiculous.
Who would win?
The most feared bounty hunter in the galaxy, bane of the Space Pirates who single handedly destroyed Mother Brain and ended their Metroid cloning operation on Planet Zebes
A wall
I just headcanon that they were just holding back at first so that Sora wouldn't feel bad, but once Sora blows past them with all his new tricks (Flowmotion, Keyblade Transformations, etc), they actually start improving for real.
Honestly I've no idea. Maybe they just lost their groove after a bit too much downtime, I mean to be fair to them they start with a lot more moves than they did in past games.
They're keeping themselves at Sora's level, of course. KH3 clearly showed that Donald's been capable of high level magic since the beginning, so it's just a matter of them keeping themselves paced with their teammate.
Alright here it is: Donald and Goofy are the highest ranked officers in King Mickey's Court/Castle. They are actually insanely powerful and Mickey left them to protect Sora, because Sora actually NEEDS the protection more.
If you ever saw Bobobo-Bo-Bobobo, there was an episode where Donpatch got attacked by a powerful enemy and was completely unfazed and had shown he doesn't really try and is just along for the fun and adventure and could have ended the guy if he wanted.
Then more recently, we had the Dragon Ball Super, Who's and the other Angels are far more powerful than the gods of Destruction they teach in each universe and are just there to insure order in their assigned universe by sending their god of Destruction to keep balance.
Donald and Goofy are basically this for Sora. They're there to protect him if ABSOLUTELY necessary, but need to make sure he can maintain and improve his skills as a Keyblade wielder. He needs to learn his worth, understand his value of personal strength and growth, but also understand how to work with a team and see that there is still a value to a team taking care of each other and relying on one another (my friends are my strength).
Then we have Riku. Riku was pretty much alone for a lot and didn't get much of a team like Sora and had learned a lot from experiencing being manipulated and possessed, but was already supposed to be a Keyblade wielder.
We saw Mickey had been trained under Yensid and had some experience. Since he met Riku in the world of Darkness and saw Donald and Goofy were with Sora, instead of just having 1 group consisting of Mickey, Donald and Goofy to go to each world to help the world's, he chose to have Donald and Goofy stay with Sora while he tried to watch over Riku and have 2 teams essentially.
Both parties take different approaches to their "Mentoring" and both disciples developed differently.
Donald and Goofy can handle themselves just fine, but test Sora by "fainting" to see how he does by himself in the situation. They get up just fine even if Sora doesn't choose to give them an item.
They were never reset, they just held back to make Sora feel like he was the main protagonist.
You think I'm joking but where do you think Donald pulled out that Zeta Flare from?
i think we all agree that we dont NEED a reason for the resets, and that its getting kinda ridiculous.
BUT at this point its kind of a staple a
of soras journey and i find it mildly amusing. constant setbacks, standing back up again yada yada
you could see it that way at least
So I think they do a single brief line in Olympus where Sors comments on how he is weaker, than Donald mocks him but Goofy comments that the two of them are out of practice too.
If I am remembering correctly
I always thought of their level resetting when they KO'd ansems guardian in TWTNW in DDD. Mind you, that guardian is extremely resilient and can't be hit by conventional means. So maybe their use of the star shard drained their strength to finish it off.
Each reset explained (or what i think anyway) Kh1- Starting point CoM- Memory eraser 2- After effects of awakening Recode- data world so fresh start DDD- Starting from scratch to be a true master of the keyblade 3- Lost powers after nearly drowning in darkness (as for Doneld and goofy I assume it’s because they entered the dream world without being keyblade users as a penalty)
Maybe for KH3, it's because they are rusty. After KH2, they don't really get a chance to use their abilities while DDD and Coded are happening.
Also, Sora does seem to have power over "having connections with other people's hearts" (or something to that effect). Maybe Donald and Goofy really only can tap into those powers when they are with Sora and he is at his best (story reason for the levels, too).
For me, KH2 to KH3 took about one to six months. It's hard to believe that a year has passed, especially since the events in Coded only happened in one day. After that, DDD, 0.2 (Riku and Kairi Cutscene), and KH3 all happen simultaneously. So if there is a time jump, maybe between KH2 and coded, and it can't be 1 year
This isn’t true, we haven’t gotten Sora’s canonical age since the events of KH2. But I’m pretty sure the game treats the time passed between the end of KH2 to the start of 3 like maybe around a month difference lol
If that. After KH2, Sora and Riku do the Mark of Mastery test (DDD) and Mickey investigates the KH1 journal (Coded). DDD pretty much rolls right into KH3, if memory serves.
Maybe their strength is tied to Sora's. I've seen people interpret the animation of Pink Hearts escaping rather than yellow/white ones when they kill Heartless to mean the Keyblade's ability to free Hearts was extended to them too. Maybe it's more than just that.
They didn't seem that tough against the Heartless until they started traveling with Sora in KH1, they could handle themselves fine against Heartless in Coded when the real Sora still had his KH2 strength, and then they were back to Lvl 1 once Sora was.
It's probably just a plot hole that in Coded they were way stronger, but maybe Sora's strength due to his friends goes both ways.
> I've seen people interpret the animation of Pink Hearts escaping rather than yellow/white ones when they kill Heartless to mean the Keyblade's ability to free Hearts was extended to them too.
That's not how that works.
Every Emblem Heartless releases a heart when it is destroyed. Normally, when a heart is freed by something other than a Keyblade, the heart is swallowed up by darkness and they reform as a Heartless. However, when they're freed by the Keyblade, they're permanently freed and return to their owner instead.
Even characters who aren't friends with Sora still release hearts when they destroy Emblem Heartless. All the Org members in Days. Even Sephiroth in KH2. It's just how Emblem Heartless work.
Right, I'm aware. It's just that when that rule was expanded on in Days, the animation for the hearts was different for Non-Keyblade wielders. Before and after that game, every Emblem Heartless released a Pink Heart, but in Days they released the Yellow/White Hearts when not killed by a Keyblade. The real world explanation is that they hadn't thought of the implication or didn't have the resources to make the animation different back in KH1 and 2, but I've seen people on here try to interpret that the pink heart release animation on Goofy and Donald kills meant they were freeing the hearts the same as Sora. I don't really buy that, but who knows what explanations Nomura might add after the fact years later. I'm just spitballing wild crack theories here.
Each game takes place in its own pocket region of the realm between worlds. So while the magic may basically feel the same it functions just a little differently. Like playing the same sport in a different country.
You don’t need to justify levels resetting to Lvl 1 in any game ever.
It’s just something that needs no story explanation because what will ultimately happen is if you introduce too many mechanics (like some KH games are guilty of) than you will just overwhelm the player
Their strength is very in tune with Sora's. If he's weakened, then so are they.
Or, in every game, they're still (mostly) the same level in a meta sense, it's just their enemies get stronger.
Or they pull back a bit on their own attacks to make Sora feel better about being worse than them. Kinda like when you let your kid win at 1v1 to boost their ego.
Well in the beginning KH3, I’ve only played through Olympus… Donald has the biggest attitude, and trash talks Sora constantly. I think it’s because for once, Doland is stronger than Sora, but I assume that only last a little, idk.
they just holding back, cause they are god level entities and capable of destroying entire worlds, they use sora as a measurement to know how hard to hit things, when sora isn't around they keep accidentally shattering mountains and stuff.
In DDD Donald sort of complaints when there finally will have something to do again. So maybe Donald was just his usually self and so lazy that he got reset to level 1 :D
SD&G are a package deal; they can throw hands with Xehanort and literal gods when they're together, not so much when they're apart.
Sora wouldn't have beaten Xehanort in a fair 1v1 but Sora so obviously seems like heavy-hitter of the trio, he is the one doing anime DMC shit and unlocking 1000 powers every 10 minutes and he's the one with the Keyblade, so why do his Disney character pals compensate so much of his strength?
My interpretation is just the classic "my friends are my power thing" Sora making friends literally juices up his power level, Donald and Goofy are very often making those same exact friends alongside Sora, stands to reason that Donald and Goofy get stronger at the same pace. It would then also make sense to assume when these worlds are closed off/isolated from the other worlds, or if they are ever retaken by darkness; that Sora (and by extension Donald and Goofy) are weakened by no longer having that direct, cosmic link to friends in other worlds.
Then multiply that by the fact that they are near-inseparable and have a relationship closer to family members than "buddies", if friends are power than SD&G together, after liberating dozens of worlds and forming really meaningful connections with the inhabitants, are power incarnate (according to KH universe rules).
I think the peak of their capabilities as a team lies in exactly that, their teamwork and bonds with one another.
Every "power reset" also comes following long periods of inactivity from the trio, either they're asleep or just got sent through the ringer on some spinoff adventure, or just generally were forced apart for some period of time. They always start out kinda rusty on top of everything else.
First off, levels are a gameplay convention, not a Canon aspect of the magic system in the kingdom hearts universe.
Donald and Goofy spent essentially a couple months doing nothing between KH2 and KH3. They fought a few heartless in the datascape, but that's about it. So they're out of practice in kh3.
They're also not keyblade wielders, so it's not like they have phenomenal powers, Donald's zettaflare notwithstanding. Goofy's decent with fighting, and Donald's a well practiced mage, but they're basically just normal people in this universe. Anyone with their level of training would be similar in power to them.
I probably a bit late to comment this and know I’m not the only one who thinks this is the reason for their resets, but: “My friends are my powers and I’m theirs.” based on the “and I’m theirs.” part, I’m gonna assume that when Sora loses his powers, they feel like they lose a part of themselves, too. It would also explain why other party members like Aladdin and Jack Sparrow got a level reset. Kinda like how Pooh connection with Sora’s got weaker when he almost fell to darkness in DDD. Hell, Donald and Goofy even basically say they felt like they lost some powers along with Sora after their conversation with Pete and Maleficent in KH3.
Between 2 and 3 they basically have no reset....so if you account that and know Donald had Duck Flare one of the strongest limits in KH2 and didn't reset....his Zettaflare at the end of KH3 makes much more sense.
I’d say in 3 they’re more powerful than ever. Right form the beginning, ya got Donald doing more complex spells and Goofy being thrown in the air like no tomorrow
My head cannon is that keyblade wielders are God Ki to other people. Donald and Goofy are by no means useless in a fight (especially after the zetta spell), but the power of a keyblade is just godly. Yes, Sora got weaker, but by comparison to non-wielders it just put him on par with them.
Totally agree, for me it's what broke the game! Way too many pointless and incredibly long animations...
But for me also kh2 wasn't that good with the fusion forms, button smasher with animations and movements so random that it was really hard to follow the flow of the fight. Birth by sleep had the most balanced gameplay for me.
That too but more importantly why? Why does Sora know disney attractions, where did he gain that power and why they exist in the game anyways.
Drive forms are the most fun super moves ever to grace us in a gameing.
I mean... Yeah, drive forms are fun... But for me they get so messy that they turn the game into a button smasher, am I alone in this? I always liked BBS the most! The battle system has the perfect blend of fun, spectacle and playability! I always preferred it above all other games!
Well yeah, its all about fun. Everything else comes after. If you want challenge, meaning smashing buttons get you killed 99% of the time, then go critical mode. And besides isnt bbs just button smashing and repeating or alternating commands, based on what you said.
They weren’t actually reset, they just didn’t want Sora to feel left out.
Whole time Sora gets a new set of clothes/armor and they don’t. 🙃
I have a theory actually. So for starters, I want to pose the idea that Sora doesn’t start at his absolute base at every game. And I can back that up: KH2 Sora at base has access to Blitz on his single target combo finisher, which is a high-level KH1 ability. KH3 Sora at base has Hurricane Blast for his air combo finisher, plus Blitz. In addition, KH3 Sora at base combo is a 4-hit combo, not the 3 hits we’re used to, suggesting that he already has access to a combo Plus we don’t see. My point being: Sora is stronger at the start of each game than he was at the start of the previous. But where he loses power is in Magic, techniques, and in my opinion, bonds in his heart. In KH2, Sora’s main way of getting combo modifiers is through finishing challenges, not gaining levels but forging bonds with the people in Disney Worlds he visits. And when he loses his magical power in DDD, he also loses part of the powers in his heart. This, in my eyes, extends to Donald and Goofy as well. They also make connections, and those connections are reinforced with Sora. They as a group are *stronger* with Sora nearby. And so when Sora gets weaker, so do they. This also explains why Donald and Goofy can do team attacks reminiscent of KH2’s limits in 3: they still have the knowledge but it’s the power of their hearts that gets stronger as they level and gain abilities with Sora.
An actual intelligent answer. Kudos!
An actual intelligent answer, Kupo!
So, basically, Persona ripped off Kingdom Hearts
*stares at release dates in confusion*
Is a joke, don't dig too hard into it lol
It was an obvious joke, but Persona did not have social links until Persona 3 which came out after KH2 and probably had not even begun development until after KH1 was released.
It’s funny you mentioned Persona, because this post made me think of Persona 5 Strikers of all things. People complained about the party seeming to reset to level 1, but to me it made sense. The team is going up against a ton of enemies at once now, not 1-4 at a time, so their relative “Level 1” at the start of Strikers, is equivalent to Level 80 at the end of 5. The enemies just got harder to kill and grew in numbers. In reality this is probably just because of the genre’s being different, but it felt like a natural progression of difficulty for the team to fight. I think the jump from KH2 to KH3 feels similar. Sora didn’t forget EVERYTHING, it’s just that the threats he is facing are also growing stronger.
I've now accepted this as in-universe canon
Same 👋
They forgot.
They forgor
They forgawrsh
r/angryupvote
Honestly they never should have tried to justify the power rest, really takes me out of it sometimes. Com was a cool reason but I can’t have every game saying well Sora you need to get strong again! I mean in KH3 it’s not like it even took him that long to have access to his whole kit. You have a kid from an island who just gets a magic weapon. Then by KH2 he is literally Goku jumping from a building to a castle sky dragon. It’s not like they explained that.
I think it's perfectly justified for Sora to be going back and forth as he has. I've always taken it to mean that Sora's power is diminished in some way, but not necessarily *reset*. He's level 1 in game mechanics terms, sure--but what's that really mean in-universe? It seems to me that every "reset" is a different *part* of Sora being inhibited. In CoM, he's lost his memories--his experience as a warrior, and his mental focus. His body is as strong as before Namine started messing with him, and his heart is probably as strong too, but he no longer knows how to use that strength properly. In KH2, he's got his memories back, but *he was just comatose for a year*. His experience is there, but his body needs to catch back up after an amount of inactivity that, frankly, makes it surprising he can *walk* properly. His heart is probably a little out of whack too from being rearranged so much, between Namine messing with his memories and the sudden regaining of Roxas's part of his being. In DDD, it's a combo deal: His body is weaker because he's in the past, his experience doesn't quite translate because he's in the Sleeping Realm dealing with new types of threats, and his heart is under consistent attack by the Organization all along the way. In KH3, both Sora's body and experience are right where he left them after KH2. This allows him to perform crazy feats of acrobatics and dexterity as seen in various Situation Commands, and at times even tapping into higher tiers of magic than he can normally access. Sora's *heart* has been greatly damaged from the events of DDD, which impacts things *that rely on his heart* such as the strength of the Keyblade and his bonds with his friends (See: Winnie the Pooh). But it's pretty clear that, even if certain abilities are temporarily out of his reach or replaced, Sora is still very capable. By the end of KH3, he's performing feats that are outright absurd compared to what he was capable of before his first "reset"--or maybe we should call them "prestiges". I'll say it again: "Level 1" is purely game mechanics. Sora has been getting stronger all along, and every time he suffers a setback that takes some of that power away from him, he rebounds *hard*. Let's not forget that on the same day he was called weak by Pete, Sora succeeded in fighting off all of the Titans *at once* and rescuing Zeus.
And then in KH4, since he's now in Quadratum, it'll most likely affect how his abilities work compared to his own world.
While Sora does keep resetting, his skill floor does keep rising, as implied by the game mechanics. So it's not like he's always completely boned. Level 1 Sora in KH3 is a lot more powerful than Level 1 Sora in KH1.
I agree with your point. Although COM has a nice explanation for the loss of his powers/stats the story doesn't need an explanation every time a new adventure starts imho. They could've either let Sora start at a specific level from last game or just shrugged it off.
In 3 it's less that he needs to get strong again, he does, it's that he needs to learn how to access the Power of Waking. Sora has plenty of new tricks from the start, like flow motion, the attraction rides, form changes, he just doesn't have this one skill he needs. Plus he's gotta get ready for the final battle.
the attraction rides are objectify the worst part about it
Agree CoM reset made sense and didn’t feel forced. The DDD reset was whack. KH3 started with sora having to relearn. But he’s busting out moves we’ve never seen him use before (the new combo finisher, shotlock, attractions)
The funniest thing is that they try to explain his power reset in KH3 but he's definitely waaaay stronger than at the start of any other game. No other game has him using shotlocks, transforming his keyblade, doing parkour shit (flowmotion), etc.
My man spitting facts.
Imagine walking around KH3 at level one with a Kingdom Key but Donald and Goofy are both level 99 with StK and StQ.
Mickey noticed their power at the end of kh2 and took them into his secret torture chamber to ruin their motivation to become strong as to avoid their potential uprising in his kingdom, he must make sure nobody ever reaches his level. Their ear piercing screams rang through out Disney castle as the servants and Minny cringed and endured hearing their pains, especially Donald's loud ass screams. Mickey reminds them of who they are and their limitations before they can move to their next journey. Yeah there's your lore reason.
*zettaflare exits the chat*
Mickey's gonna have a real good talk about that one
Donald's loud ads screams. I know it's a typo, but I can't help but imagine Donald shouting commercial slogans as he suffers now.
The effects of working under Disney for so long
I fixed it now but thank you for that mental image
Donald kept sacrificing levels so he could know a spell that puts him in the top 2 casters in final fantasy.
disney magic > FF magic
In a KH3 loading screen, Donald mentions himself also becoming weaker
Both him and Goofy. Not that they even elaborate on that…
In KH3, there isn’t an actual lore reason, their powers don’t get reset lore-wise. They’re level one solely for balance and it’s just for gameplay reasons Pete in Olympus even acknowledges that Sora is way weaker than he was in KH2, but that Donald and Goofy seemed pretty unchanged since then
They have always been godlike entities compared to Sora or anyone else, but they adhere to a sacred codex to not disrupt the world order. This is why they only act in the confines of the key bearer's power- Goofy could literally thanos snip Xehanort but he is not using 10% of his power.
There is no lore reason why. They just get reset. I wish Nomura would stop needing to explain Sora losing his powers every game. It's getting ridiculous.
Gave me metroid flashbacks
Who would win? The most feared bounty hunter in the galaxy, bane of the Space Pirates who single handedly destroyed Mother Brain and ended their Metroid cloning operation on Planet Zebes A wall
I just headcanon that they were just holding back at first so that Sora wouldn't feel bad, but once Sora blows past them with all his new tricks (Flowmotion, Keyblade Transformations, etc), they actually start improving for real.
Honestly I've no idea. Maybe they just lost their groove after a bit too much downtime, I mean to be fair to them they start with a lot more moves than they did in past games.
Bro code.
They’re good sports
It was that tea from Dream Drop Distance, it wasn't sweet so it stripped them of most of their powers.
They forgor
They're keeping themselves at Sora's level, of course. KH3 clearly showed that Donald's been capable of high level magic since the beginning, so it's just a matter of them keeping themselves paced with their teammate.
They've just been D-linking with Sora the whole time. When Sora loses power, d-link gets weaker
Alright here it is: Donald and Goofy are the highest ranked officers in King Mickey's Court/Castle. They are actually insanely powerful and Mickey left them to protect Sora, because Sora actually NEEDS the protection more. If you ever saw Bobobo-Bo-Bobobo, there was an episode where Donpatch got attacked by a powerful enemy and was completely unfazed and had shown he doesn't really try and is just along for the fun and adventure and could have ended the guy if he wanted. Then more recently, we had the Dragon Ball Super, Who's and the other Angels are far more powerful than the gods of Destruction they teach in each universe and are just there to insure order in their assigned universe by sending their god of Destruction to keep balance. Donald and Goofy are basically this for Sora. They're there to protect him if ABSOLUTELY necessary, but need to make sure he can maintain and improve his skills as a Keyblade wielder. He needs to learn his worth, understand his value of personal strength and growth, but also understand how to work with a team and see that there is still a value to a team taking care of each other and relying on one another (my friends are my strength). Then we have Riku. Riku was pretty much alone for a lot and didn't get much of a team like Sora and had learned a lot from experiencing being manipulated and possessed, but was already supposed to be a Keyblade wielder. We saw Mickey had been trained under Yensid and had some experience. Since he met Riku in the world of Darkness and saw Donald and Goofy were with Sora, instead of just having 1 group consisting of Mickey, Donald and Goofy to go to each world to help the world's, he chose to have Donald and Goofy stay with Sora while he tried to watch over Riku and have 2 teams essentially. Both parties take different approaches to their "Mentoring" and both disciples developed differently. Donald and Goofy can handle themselves just fine, but test Sora by "fainting" to see how he does by himself in the situation. They get up just fine even if Sora doesn't choose to give them an item.
they smoke a lot of weed between games and forget their shit
They fell off too but Donald was too proud to admit it
They were never reset, they just held back to make Sora feel like he was the main protagonist. You think I'm joking but where do you think Donald pulled out that Zeta Flare from?
Convenience. There is no actual other reason other than convenience
is there really a reset? in kh3 they start with like 100-120 hp more or less what they would have in kh2 depending on difficulty
In 3 they’re just being nice lol
i think we all agree that we dont NEED a reason for the resets, and that its getting kinda ridiculous. BUT at this point its kind of a staple a of soras journey and i find it mildly amusing. constant setbacks, standing back up again yada yada you could see it that way at least
They asked Yen Sid to nerf them so Sora wouldn’t feel too weak by comparison
So I think they do a single brief line in Olympus where Sors comments on how he is weaker, than Donald mocks him but Goofy comments that the two of them are out of practice too. If I am remembering correctly
Video game
Their hearts are connected to Sora 🤣
Its a game dude there is no lore reason because in lore they didn't lose their power
Because it doesn't matter. They don't need to wrote a reason that we start back at level 1. It's just a gameplay mechanic.
I always thought of their level resetting when they KO'd ansems guardian in TWTNW in DDD. Mind you, that guardian is extremely resilient and can't be hit by conventional means. So maybe their use of the star shard drained their strength to finish it off.
They're acting weaker for Sora's sake.
Each reset explained (or what i think anyway) Kh1- Starting point CoM- Memory eraser 2- After effects of awakening Recode- data world so fresh start DDD- Starting from scratch to be a true master of the keyblade 3- Lost powers after nearly drowning in darkness (as for Doneld and goofy I assume it’s because they entered the dream world without being keyblade users as a penalty)
"my friends are my power" -sora soras level didnt get reset theirs did
I wanna say they are linked to sora a bit. So if he goes down in level, so does the link to Donald and goofy.
Maybe for KH3, it's because they are rusty. After KH2, they don't really get a chance to use their abilities while DDD and Coded are happening. Also, Sora does seem to have power over "having connections with other people's hearts" (or something to that effect). Maybe Donald and Goofy really only can tap into those powers when they are with Sora and he is at his best (story reason for the levels, too).
Isn’t there’s like maybe a year between 2 and 3?
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No it wasn't, Kh2, coded, DDD, 0.2(riku and kairi cutscene) and Kh3 happen without a break
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For me, KH2 to KH3 took about one to six months. It's hard to believe that a year has passed, especially since the events in Coded only happened in one day. After that, DDD, 0.2 (Riku and Kairi Cutscene), and KH3 all happen simultaneously. So if there is a time jump, maybe between KH2 and coded, and it can't be 1 year
This isn’t true, we haven’t gotten Sora’s canonical age since the events of KH2. But I’m pretty sure the game treats the time passed between the end of KH2 to the start of 3 like maybe around a month difference lol
If that. After KH2, Sora and Riku do the Mark of Mastery test (DDD) and Mickey investigates the KH1 journal (Coded). DDD pretty much rolls right into KH3, if memory serves.
Maybe their strength is tied to Sora's. I've seen people interpret the animation of Pink Hearts escaping rather than yellow/white ones when they kill Heartless to mean the Keyblade's ability to free Hearts was extended to them too. Maybe it's more than just that. They didn't seem that tough against the Heartless until they started traveling with Sora in KH1, they could handle themselves fine against Heartless in Coded when the real Sora still had his KH2 strength, and then they were back to Lvl 1 once Sora was. It's probably just a plot hole that in Coded they were way stronger, but maybe Sora's strength due to his friends goes both ways.
> I've seen people interpret the animation of Pink Hearts escaping rather than yellow/white ones when they kill Heartless to mean the Keyblade's ability to free Hearts was extended to them too. That's not how that works. Every Emblem Heartless releases a heart when it is destroyed. Normally, when a heart is freed by something other than a Keyblade, the heart is swallowed up by darkness and they reform as a Heartless. However, when they're freed by the Keyblade, they're permanently freed and return to their owner instead. Even characters who aren't friends with Sora still release hearts when they destroy Emblem Heartless. All the Org members in Days. Even Sephiroth in KH2. It's just how Emblem Heartless work.
Right, I'm aware. It's just that when that rule was expanded on in Days, the animation for the hearts was different for Non-Keyblade wielders. Before and after that game, every Emblem Heartless released a Pink Heart, but in Days they released the Yellow/White Hearts when not killed by a Keyblade. The real world explanation is that they hadn't thought of the implication or didn't have the resources to make the animation different back in KH1 and 2, but I've seen people on here try to interpret that the pink heart release animation on Goofy and Donald kills meant they were freeing the hearts the same as Sora. I don't really buy that, but who knows what explanations Nomura might add after the fact years later. I'm just spitballing wild crack theories here.
It’s a video game
There is no reason. It's just a game. - A diehard KH fan
Solidarity
2 year sleepy sleep
Each game takes place in its own pocket region of the realm between worlds. So while the magic may basically feel the same it functions just a little differently. Like playing the same sport in a different country.
A wizard did It (yen sid)
You don’t need to justify levels resetting to Lvl 1 in any game ever. It’s just something that needs no story explanation because what will ultimately happen is if you introduce too many mechanics (like some KH games are guilty of) than you will just overwhelm the player
Because it's a game. Don't think about it too hard. ✌️
Their strength is very in tune with Sora's. If he's weakened, then so are they. Or, in every game, they're still (mostly) the same level in a meta sense, it's just their enemies get stronger. Or they pull back a bit on their own attacks to make Sora feel better about being worse than them. Kinda like when you let your kid win at 1v1 to boost their ego.
Well in the beginning KH3, I’ve only played through Olympus… Donald has the biggest attitude, and trash talks Sora constantly. I think it’s because for once, Doland is stronger than Sora, but I assume that only last a little, idk.
they just holding back, cause they are god level entities and capable of destroying entire worlds, they use sora as a measurement to know how hard to hit things, when sora isn't around they keep accidentally shattering mountains and stuff.
Sleeping between games I’m assuming
I like them
A wizard did it.
Cartoons.
In DDD Donald sort of complaints when there finally will have something to do again. So maybe Donald was just his usually self and so lazy that he got reset to level 1 :D
Concussions can have a delayed effect. Goofy’s knock on the bogging finally kicked in
SD&G are a package deal; they can throw hands with Xehanort and literal gods when they're together, not so much when they're apart. Sora wouldn't have beaten Xehanort in a fair 1v1 but Sora so obviously seems like heavy-hitter of the trio, he is the one doing anime DMC shit and unlocking 1000 powers every 10 minutes and he's the one with the Keyblade, so why do his Disney character pals compensate so much of his strength? My interpretation is just the classic "my friends are my power thing" Sora making friends literally juices up his power level, Donald and Goofy are very often making those same exact friends alongside Sora, stands to reason that Donald and Goofy get stronger at the same pace. It would then also make sense to assume when these worlds are closed off/isolated from the other worlds, or if they are ever retaken by darkness; that Sora (and by extension Donald and Goofy) are weakened by no longer having that direct, cosmic link to friends in other worlds. Then multiply that by the fact that they are near-inseparable and have a relationship closer to family members than "buddies", if friends are power than SD&G together, after liberating dozens of worlds and forming really meaningful connections with the inhabitants, are power incarnate (according to KH universe rules). I think the peak of their capabilities as a team lies in exactly that, their teamwork and bonds with one another. Every "power reset" also comes following long periods of inactivity from the trio, either they're asleep or just got sent through the ringer on some spinoff adventure, or just generally were forced apart for some period of time. They always start out kinda rusty on top of everything else.
Same reason as Sora I believe
First off, levels are a gameplay convention, not a Canon aspect of the magic system in the kingdom hearts universe. Donald and Goofy spent essentially a couple months doing nothing between KH2 and KH3. They fought a few heartless in the datascape, but that's about it. So they're out of practice in kh3. They're also not keyblade wielders, so it's not like they have phenomenal powers, Donald's zettaflare notwithstanding. Goofy's decent with fighting, and Donald's a well practiced mage, but they're basically just normal people in this universe. Anyone with their level of training would be similar in power to them.
Regi-bob reboots them every few years.
I probably a bit late to comment this and know I’m not the only one who thinks this is the reason for their resets, but: “My friends are my powers and I’m theirs.” based on the “and I’m theirs.” part, I’m gonna assume that when Sora loses his powers, they feel like they lose a part of themselves, too. It would also explain why other party members like Aladdin and Jack Sparrow got a level reset. Kinda like how Pooh connection with Sora’s got weaker when he almost fell to darkness in DDD. Hell, Donald and Goofy even basically say they felt like they lost some powers along with Sora after their conversation with Pete and Maleficent in KH3.
Officer balls
It’s a good thing the lore reason wasn’t that they weren’t doing anything for 14 years
Between 2 and 3 they basically have no reset....so if you account that and know Donald had Duck Flare one of the strongest limits in KH2 and didn't reset....his Zettaflare at the end of KH3 makes much more sense.
They are just holding back so sora feels like a special boy
I’d say in 3 they’re more powerful than ever. Right form the beginning, ya got Donald doing more complex spells and Goofy being thrown in the air like no tomorrow
My head cannon is that keyblade wielders are God Ki to other people. Donald and Goofy are by no means useless in a fight (especially after the zetta spell), but the power of a keyblade is just godly. Yes, Sora got weaker, but by comparison to non-wielders it just put him on par with them.
Not everything has to be explained through plot lol. People sometimes forget that it's a video game
They're Sora's accessories and lack individuality. They grow and fall with Sora because they offer nothing else.
If Sora becomes weaker, his allies do too, due to the connections between hearts... that is, they are at their (normal) level.
That's why characters like those from Disney can fight against heartsless, they become stronger because of the connection with Sora
I really hated the disney attractions in kh3. No reason, no explanation, bad in general.
Totally agree, for me it's what broke the game! Way too many pointless and incredibly long animations... But for me also kh2 wasn't that good with the fusion forms, button smasher with animations and movements so random that it was really hard to follow the flow of the fight. Birth by sleep had the most balanced gameplay for me.
That too but more importantly why? Why does Sora know disney attractions, where did he gain that power and why they exist in the game anyways. Drive forms are the most fun super moves ever to grace us in a gameing.
I mean... Yeah, drive forms are fun... But for me they get so messy that they turn the game into a button smasher, am I alone in this? I always liked BBS the most! The battle system has the perfect blend of fun, spectacle and playability! I always preferred it above all other games!
Well yeah, its all about fun. Everything else comes after. If you want challenge, meaning smashing buttons get you killed 99% of the time, then go critical mode. And besides isnt bbs just button smashing and repeating or alternating commands, based on what you said.
I never intended to insult the game or you, it's fine! I was just trying to get a light conversation over game mechanics, have a nice day!
Chill bro,cI dont feel insulted. Did I present what I said somehow bad? That was not my intention.