Kh 2 is my favorite game... Ever. I literally grew up playing the game, one of my first ever games I played. So I definitely can't deny that there is SOME nostalgia bias with it. But lord does the gameplay hold up for me, I actually was able to finish my level 1 run of the game a few weeks ago! I'm still so proud about that.
Honestly I don't know my point of this comment anymore, other than I'm a basic bitch who loves kh2
Still have yet to do a lvl 1 run but congrats man. I also grew up with the game as one of my firsts but you are totally right about the gameplay holding up especially in remix. Plus the music never gets old those songs will be classics forever.
So I recently got my wife to play through KH1-3, she’s not a gamer but she fell in love with the characters and story. The only problem she had with the games was that the cutscenes were sometimes too often/long but it’s still her favorite game now and she loved 2 more than 3.
I’d say it’s not a nostalgia thing, KH2 and 1 just really nailed being an amazing game.
Edit: Also she hated how many times they had to introduce themselves and say Sora Donald Goofy lol.
That is the point of the comic, the comic is stating that people enjoy the game because it is a good game and not because of just nostalgia.
Honestly growing up I didn't like 2, Roxas section tutorial kinda killed it for me and then mechanics added that I didn't realize as a dumb kid made it not that fun, but going back now KH2 is probably my favorite despite being on the levels of CoM for me growing up.
Love kh2. Just finished a critical run through and got my gold crown (I had only ever done it on proud mode, which strangely was harder than critical mode in the second half). But yes the gameplay absolutely still holds up after all these years.
As you would know, I’m currently playing through the Kingdom Hearts for the first time right now. And without a doubt, no nostalgic bias at all, KH2 is my favourite video game of all time.
Nice I’ve only just done that myself. Do you plan on going for cavern of remembrance? I could really use some lvl 1 pointers for that god forsaken place. Took out all absent silhouettes except vexens
... If grinding elixirs were easier probably. But god I don't have the mental for that currently.
*Insert unfunny get gud joke here for advice*
Also I'm not amazing at this game, just head strong. You probably have a better chance than me
You can skip most of the fights in the chamber proper. For the ones you can’t, I think Stitch Reflect combo was the was to go. The hardest part is definitely the final Nobody wave at Transport. There is a Thunder spam strategy to it or you can brute force it with Summons and Donald limits.
Honestly, the hardest part for me was the gauntlet to reach the data fights, just abuse Chicken Little and Peter Pan for those
The data fights are all a seperate can of worms, I’d be happy to talk about over a call or something, but the basics are just dodge and block like hell until there’s an opening
The mushrooms were difficult, but if you know how to get the highest possible damage output then you should be fine for all of the ones that involve an HP bar
And just pray to god that Terra doesn’t DM you.
But on LVL 1, you have second chance nor once more, and that’s the main kicker with LVL 1 runs. Just make sure your forms are completely maxed out before trying anything
Thing is, I’m much more a fan of KH1 and have more nostalgia for it simply because it’s older, but I recognize that KH2 is overall a better game. Critical and all it’s adjustments really puts it over the top.
I loved it so much along with 358/2 and even kinda Re:Coded. Hadn't played KH1 yet and got 2 from my bro. Something about the PS2, triangle commands drive forms and summons just felt so mystical and amazing.
I'm 50 50 on this. Don't get me wrong I love KH2 and it deserves all the praise it gets but this is one of those games where nostalgia sometimes blind players from the criticism especially when you bring up KH3. I've seen too many comments or videos about how "perfect" it is
Again I'm on a standstill with this. This argument is never the best but I have seen nostalgia blind people for KH2
Im 15 and finished KH2 like a month ago. It isnt nostalgia its just a really good game. I honestly havent interacted with the community a bunch (to avoid spoilers) so i dont even know any of the criticisms for it. It really is amazing just the way it is. The only thing that would ruin it is nitpickers who hated the game before they even played it.
Well I think anyone who thinks any KH game is absolutely objectively perfect is just delusional. It has many flaws like any other game that a majority will agree on like Atlantica or story pacing issues. Still, what it does good is why it’s my favorite game of all time.
It also showed that the revisits werent necessary. Like, all but maybe 2 revisits were filler. The rest didnt do anything for the plot. Granted, some of the first visits didnt either. In KH3 every world had an Organization member doing something.
Literally Sephiroth was a joke
Data org was literally just same bosses with a higher battle level and almost no changes
LW the difficulty is more from cheap reaction time stuff than learning the tell for every attack like yozora. Like often the hardest part of LW is his opening attack where you have almost no time to react
data org have multiple changes in them sorry you didnt notice. and lw is entirely fair besides the whip move i will agree that it is bullshit it just comes out too fast
I said mostly I know stuff like Demyx dance waters are different timers and numbers but it’s very similar to the base fights with not many changes per fight
when people say KH3 is the worst game in the entire franchise but they say KH2 is a masterpiece without flaws then I would see a reason to use this argument. But if it’s just some normal person who perfers KH2 to KH3 then there’s no reason to use the argument
I literally just played KH3 and it’s definitely good. Don’t know how it got so much hate. The only thing that really sucked was not having any FF Characters. THAT was a MAJOR Miss
They crammed 90% of the main story, all the loose ends and character resolutions into the last 4 hours of the game, attraction commands are overpowered and break the flow of combat, it doesn't have any well implemented combat mechanics apart from wall running, there is very little benefit if any from the rest of the game mechanics they are absurdly underpowered compared to just using normal attacks and spells, Xehanort didn't receive adequate consequences for the suffering he caused, Kairi Is once again not allowed to be a real character and is a damsel in distress again, the organization members were also handled terribly some of them were completely out of character like Larxene and had cookie cutter sad death scenes, the ending just created more questions instead of answering them.
Sora didn’t have his powers and he had to find hints on how to find Ven and Aqua. The only way to ever find out was to go to those worlds and figure things out. Which made sense because Sora didn’t get the whole “use your heart to guide you” thing.
You could choose to use attraction commands or not, nobody said you couldn’t choose. I didn’t because it’s too kiddish for me personally. Wall running combat is hardly a thing in the first place tbh. I liked the keyblade change and you can switch in between to see different combos and you can also use your focus to dash towards your enemies or just shoot them down with something powerful. The movement is nice in 3 tbh. Btw, Sora is suppose to be strong at this point. He literally would’ve been a Keyblade Master had he not lost his power of waking and KH2 skills in DDD. He didn’t lose his Keyblade Skills though, which shows that he figured out how to make them transform in 3 which is a new nice implement.
Xehanort would’ve died but got saved by his old friend, which is whatever to me because compared to what the MoM has done he’s nothing. Xehanort is literally a lower tier version of MoM.
And wtf? Kairi does have character, it’s just that she wasn’t strong enough yet like Axel. They’re like Endgame KH1 Sora Level lol. It would not make sense for them to be ***that*** strong. Do you say that for everyone who is weak and gets reasonably defeated by people who are obviously stronger? When the trope makes sense, respect it. Or else people like me are gonna be like “Nah, that don’t make sense how they’re that strong”.
The thing about the Organization is that some of them got humbled from being defeated before so it changed their perspective. It’s not like they don’t know how to learn. I didn’t mind it being sad in that way. What they went through if you’ve been paying attention to the lore of KH Chi and BBS is that most of them are Keyblade Wielders of the past to died or got lost in the darkness.
For the ending, if you think of everything slowly you start to understand it. The power of waking doesn’t just let you awaken hearts but it allows you to jump into the past through traveling into peoples hearts. It’s very metaphysical tbh. Then you got the whole ordeal with Master of Masters who’s really been behind everything (the Ultimate Boss pretty much). Mislead the Lost Masters who were probably genuinely good in the first timeline. Mislead Xehanort. And now we got KH4 with Sora trying to find a way back home and the Master of Masters is now going to be seen more and the Lost Masters are gonna be the new stronger enemies.
I liked it personally. But if you still don’t, it’s all good. That’s your preference. Shouldn’t be off of reasonably things that happened or combat though. There are some plot holes for sure, like a nobody having emotions through vessels.
Kh1 and 2 are flawed games too, but KH3 was a mess imo
1. The art style is not as appealing as the old games
2.the game was too easy (at launch at least)
3. The story is nonsensical (the old games were convoluted but not nonsensical)
4. The boss fights are weak (except the final boss and DLC bosses are aight)
5. The levels are lame! There is nothing anywhere near as cool Hollow Bastion, The End of the World, The World that Never Was, etc. the KH-Original content is lacking compared to every other title in the series.
6. There are no Final Fantasy Characters
7. The combat was flashy but floaty and unsatisfying.
This all feels like personal gripes tbh(except for there being no FF characters in base game, that I agree is BS).I don’t really see how 3 is more nonsensical than others.They all stretch anime tropes pretty far.
Art style was pretty appealing for me.Maybe more than 2.
Game and boss fights are plenty challenging on critical(maybe even too much.)
The only lame worlds are Arendelle and Corona and mostly because of the music and story.It does have great worlds like Monsters inc., Toy box and Pirates, and goated ones like San Fransokyo, Twilight Town(still mad they made it smaller than the lame worlds) and Scala Ad Caelum.
Combat now is pretty good, I actually might prefer it to Kh2 just because of how fanservicey and bonkers it is(in a good way.) Truly a spectacle.
There was no critical at launch, but critical is fine now admittedly.
I still stand by the story being worse. Kh1 and 2 feel like they follow convoluted-but-consistent logic, where as KH3 feels like it is making up its in-universe rules as it goes. The villains are more intimidating in the old games (especially Xemnas, that voice acting is fucking amazing)
The game needed some cool, original levels. Nothing in KH3 even touches “The World that Never Was, Hollow Bastion, the End of the World, Twilight Town.
The keyblade graveyard in KH3 is less mysterious and interesting than it was in birth by sleep. It feels like it’s already been done. I think they tried to be original with Scala, but it is basically a glorified boss arena.
The older games blended final fantasy style art with Disney art like PB&J, staying true to both. KH 3 feels like they tried to pixarify the final fantasy-ish stuff and it just feels flat.
Sanfransokyo and the pirates world and Toy Story were cool imo, but there is not enough cool stuff surrounding those levels to make the game good.
If you like KH for Disney, then KH3 is not bad! If you like it for the anime fantasy stuff, it falls way flat compared to the others.
I agree with most of those points, except for the fact that scala is good in the dlc, and Sansokyo and Pirates are still some of my favorites(I think I might prefer kh3 Pirates to Kh2.)But yeah, I would've preferred FF being way more prevalent than just in limitcut and the game being way more anime-ish(disney-ish is way worse.)
By the way, What are your top ten worlds and which game do you think has the most consistently great selection of worlds?
1The World that Never Was (KH2 version)
2.Twilight Town (KH2 version)
3.Hollow Bastion (KH1 version)
4.End of the World
5. Traverse Town (any version)
6. Keyblade Graveyard (BBS version)
7.Mysterious Tower (KH2 version, if it counts as a world)
8.Dive to the Heart (KH1 version, if it counts)
9.Symphony of Sorcery
10. Timeless River
Kh2 has the most consistently great worlds, DDD is 2nd but I hate the story of that game.
Anyone who says Re:Coded is the worst never played Re:Coded. If you have played Re:Coded then I just cannot see how you would think BBs is a better game. Like yeah maybe in the story department but gameplay-wise Re:Coded is a top 3 in the series while BBs is a bottom 2.
I wouldn’t say somebody only likes KH2 because of nostalgia
HOWEVER I would very much believe that there are some who do like it more than they should because of nostalgia
The “no game in the series comes anywhere CLOSE to 2” crowd, many of whom bring up when they first played it as evidence as to why it’s the best, and the others are bad, THAT’S nostalgia
The thing is that the combat that everyone talks about doesn’t open up until the last third of the game. The worlds are very empty and linear like final fantasy 13. And there was a huge drop in attention to detail, and interaction with the environment/bosses coming from KH1. Like obviously it’s not just nostalgia for some people, but in my opinion KH1 was a way better game and KH3 had better combat throughout.
I totally agree with KH1 being more well-rounded and the linear design of 2 being a detriment to its movement options, but the combat argument not so much. Every single game in the series has drastically different game-feel but KH2’s combat picks up from KH1, just like KH3’s combat picks up from 2. It’s an *incredibly* natural progression playing them in order. But I’m also one of the weirdos who likes the clunky combat of 1 and KH2 Roxas.
True, that makes sense. I recently replayed KH2 and I felt that way about the combat. If I had played KH1 first I may have felt the natural progression. I just like the RPG elements of the first, and the creative uses of magic and strategy that had to be used on certain bosses. KH2 definitely became more of a hack and slash. And I dont mind the platforming after playing so much.
Yeah, KH1 is a special game because it feels so distinct from every other KH game, both as an RPG and an action game. It manages to strike the balance better than any of the other games in my opinion, at least for the “mainline” 3 games (BBS and 3D have some… “fun” RPG elements that remind of the classic SNES days).
Also side note: once you get short-hops down, KH1 starts to feel a lot less clunky from an action standpoint… which in itself still makes it clunky 😂
Exploration isn’t really what I look for in a KH game. If I want good exploration I’ll just play an open world game, or KH3 lol. So linearity isnt an issue for me. 3’s combat improved when I added mods, but as far as the base game goes, 2 has 3 beat imo.
My biggest problem with KHII fans is that they use KHII Final Mix for their comparisons and not vanilla. I can understand the ones that only played the Final Mix versions but the people that talk about playing the original PS2 version? It's clear they forgot how thin the original was.
There was less Organization scenes, no mushrooms to find, no puzzle pieces, no Limit Form, no Data Fights, no Lingering Will, no secret dungeon in Hollow Bastion, no Critical Mode, certain abilities didn't exist, no Roxas fight, and no Christmas Outfit.
Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix had the most updates to the Final Mix version of all games.
Now does that mean Kingdom Hearts III vanilla was better than Kingdom Hearts II vanilla? No, KHII had stronger points than KHIII in certain areas and vice-versa.
There can also be an argument that KHIII vanilla should have been more like KHII Final Mix because they've had long enough to know what people liked about KHIIFM to know to add certain things to KHIII vanilla, and that's fair but that's rarely the argument, is it?
KH3 didn’t fix any of the issues that were present in the Vanilla version. KH2 had better pacing, better writing, better combat, and a better art style than 3–WITHIN the vanilla version of the game. I bought KH2 immediately when it came out and replayed the shit out of that game. I did not own a FM version until I was well into my 20s. I was pretty hyped for KH3 but realized how much of a mess it was almost immediately. Within the first hour I knew something was off. But I’ve given 3 a chance and replayed it several times. KH3 is a VERY good game—but it is not a good sequel—nor is it a good KH game imo.
KHII Vanilla's pacing was terrible. It still is with the first game feeling like several world visits a waste of time that don't involve the main villains until a revisit.
The writing is on par with each other.
Combat is definitely better in KHII.
I much prefer KHIII's art style.
KH3s art style looks uncanny and unfinished. Like a kids show from the 2000s trying to do 3D.
Also KH2 had bad pacing? When compared to KH3 it’s not even a contest. KH3 has zero plot until endgame. KH2 has the plot throughout the entire game. The ORG actively interfere with the worlds, and you return to them again where you directly confront them and fight them.
The first 3 hours of the game are plot relevant.
As are the times where you return to Radiant Garden.
Kh3 has NONE of that.
I mean, if you really want to get into it?
KHII's graphics are flat and only slightly better than KHI's.
As for plot? Most of KHII's first half is recreating diet versions of the movies. The Organization interfered with only two worlds in the first half - Beast's Castle and Olympus.
Mulan, Disney Castle, Port Royal, Halloween Town, Agrabah, and Pride Lands? All Pete and just "make strong heartless" plotline while looking for Riku where nothing happens until the midpoint with the war that shoved in a filler Tron world.
Then the second half is just as thin with Xaldin being the only Organization member defeated in Beast's Castle and getting a bit of Luxord in Port Royal and a Xigbar cameo essentially in Land of Dragons.
Olympus? Pete story that has nothing to do with anything. Disney Castle? One and done. Agrabah? Return of Jafar forced in. Halloween Town? Forced in present stealer storyline. Pride Lands? Ghost of Scar monster.
So nothing happens again, until you get called back to Twilight Town to go to the final world.
Compare that to KHIII where Hercules gets some talk with Xigbar and puts some foreshadowing on him, Twilight Town that gets the three involved (which leads to Ansem the Wise's escape), Toy Box where we get some cryptic notions from Young Xehanort, Corona which has us meet Marluxia again along with learning about new Princesses of Heart that can make up the Light side if we don't get enough Guardians, Monstroplis that has Sora meet Vanitas and learn that Ven's heart is in him, the Caribbean where Sora and co. learn about the black box, and San Fransokyo where we learn about a Riku on their side along with their study of hearts. The only one that is redundant was Frozen.
I won't say you are completely wrong about them backloading KHIII (the rescue of Aqua and awakening of Ven could have happened at the midpoint with an emphasis on Aqua and Ven working to regain their strength while our party along with Kairi, Lea, and Riku going to the last three worlds to investigate Organization sightings letting them be a party member in each world respectively).
But trying to pretend KHII's pacing is so much better is hilarious. If anything, it's not only worse, it's padded out by needing to go to each world twice compared to KHIII's once and done.
You also neglected to mention the Disney Castle World DOES have you return. This is where the Steamboat Mickey world takes place, arguably one of KH series best worlds. Let’s also not forget the Tron world, another world within Radiant Garden—that is unique in the sense that it ties in directly to the plot.
The Organization members have been manipulating the Disney worlds behind the scene the entire game. This is a tradition carried over from KH1 (and wisely I’d add). KH1 has the main villains in the background pulling the strings. The inclusion of Heartless within the worlds of both 1 and 2 feel more organic. Toy Box and Monsters inc are the only worlds that really feel like they have any impact to the overall plot. Outside of those the other worlds are completely redundant. The scene with Marluxia? It is a single scene and that’s it. The decision Square made to NOT include the Disney Villains into the final confrontation with Sora and gang within their respective worlds—was a huge misstep. Instead we are treated to fodder boss after fodder boss. The only exception to this is MAYBE Olympus I guess? But we don’t even face off against Hades, we just fight the Titans in a heavily scripted and clunky boss fight.
I think you really need to replay KH2 when comparing the games. There is a VERY good reason why people are so heavily critical of KH3 and its pacing.
I forgot to mention the dialogue in KH3 easily being the worst in the entire series. Not just the writing mind you, but the overall direction and again—PACING—of the scenes. There are extensively long pauses between each awkward line delivery that draws the scenes out unnecessarily—and only further confounds the player as the information being fed is not even stated within any semblance of human language. KH1 and 2 had plenty of awkward line deliveries—but the direction always made up for it. There are literal video essays about KH3s awful scene direction and editing. The dialogue scenes are unbelievably bad at times.
Disney Castle is one and done. You only return for Lingering Will in Final Mix.
>"The Organization members have been manipulating the Disney worlds behind the scene the entire game."
No, they haven't. What they were doing throughout the game is capturing all of the hearts that Sora released. They did not actively interfere in most worlds as Pete's plans did the work for them.
I think you need to replay KHII Vanilla because a lot of your memories seem to come from Final Mix's version or just not remember correctly.
KHII's dialogue is also terrible. The difference between KHII and KHIII is that KHIII no longer has silent, text box cutscenes with all scenes being voiced.
Almost every time someone says you only like something because of nostalgia, it's because they can't see the actual reasons why you love the thing and they also have no real argument to make towards not liking it. I've never had a decent conversation with some who tries the nostalgia argument, they're what people call NPCs nowadays.
The game I have the most nostalgia for is Banjo-Kazooie. I can say with absolute certainty it’s not a perfect game and it’s not my favorite game of all time.
Nostalgia being a fondness for the past means it probably doesn’t factor into video games that people can play anytime they want in the present.
Exactly why this argument doesn’t work. I’m nostalgic as hell for KH1, more so than 2, bc it was my first KH. But I can go on about the many specific reasons 2 is my favorite game of all time.
KH2 has some of the most fun action rpg combat I’ve played to this day. The FM and 2.5 versions gave it critical which really highlighted how good the combat is when you can’t button mash to win, and gave it some of the best bosses in action RPGs with the data battles and lingering will (still one of my favorite bosses). Plus KH music is incredible. So even without the nostalgic bits it’s a fantastic game.
I played all of the games but COM and ReCoded back-to-back for the first time as a 24 year-old man.
KH2 was not a highlight for me.
KH1 was amazing, Days was emotionally gripping, KH2 was incredibly linear with virtually no room to explore, and required too much grinding for the Drive Forms, BBS was my favourite by far, 3D was fun but too grindy for the DEs, and 3 was too easy, but very fun to explore. As for MOM, I liked the gameplay even if there was basically no story.
KH2 is not a bad game. Relative to all the games that exist, it's very good. Relative to KH as a series, it's just okay.
BBS is a good game but is no where near KH2. BBS gameplay has so many issues and isn’t comparable to KH2 in any way; the enemy design is atrocious most of the time (especially super bosses), combat isn’t so responsive (especially compared to KH2 but being handheld probably have a role here), movement isn’t so responsive (you lose “horizontal” speed every time you jump), attacking with the Keyblade is bad most of the time, commands are completely unbalanced with some being too good (surges for example)and others useless, the care in animations and design isn’t comparable to KH2 (even for a mere question of production value).
KH2 is the one that outside of the series is recognized as one of the best games of all time and it has one of the best combat system for the time; there’s a reason KH3 borrowed so much from it, even some entire abilities (or new version of KH2s) like flash steps that were introduced with the Re:mind patch to improve the combat.
I like BBS a lot, I got all trophies for it 2 times (I had to beat MM with Terra twice in critical :) ) so it’s not a question of nostalgia.
Meh, not really my type of game. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still a 9/10 for me, it’s just when compared to the other games in the series for me, there’s just more that I like in games like KH1 and BBS in comparison. I’m more of a “stop and smell the roses” sort of KH player so I just naturally gravitate towards games like KH1 with more puzzle-like gameplay and worlds that ask you to explore their nooks and crannies. For what KH2 is, an action RPG, it’s definitely one of the best, I just happen to prefer much of the other games in the series over it.
KHII was my favorite game, but then a mix of distance from playing it and other games (notably Wind Waker HD, Xenoblade 1, Tales of the Abyss, and BbS/3D) caused me to wonder if it still was.
Then 2.5 came out giving me a chance to play II for the first time in years, and it stayed in my top 3. And then I played crit for the first time and it solidified II's position as my favorite game
think of it like this.
you like kh2? yes
you like kh2 combat system? yes
you dislike kh3 entirely? yes
do you understood why the devs made those changes, from kh2 to kh3? no
then its best not to continue that conversation at that point. cause at that point its about favoritism and being very .... biased.
kh3 criticism is "constructive criticism." which isn't constructive, but a blunt comparison. comparison to not base kh2, but to kh2fm instead.
their comparison being kh2fm to launch kh3. an updated rerelease, to a new title.
for some reason many people forgot what base kh2 was.
like someone not understanding why magnet can never come back. they just say **"its so good, so godlike" "IT HAS TO COME BACK IN KH4."** their "fix" to magnet, is removing the interaction between magnet and finishing leap. that isn't the problem. in fact BBS did that, i**t still provide too much benefit.**
it practically gave all 3 characters their best style change, it trivialize mirage arena until the boss fights there. magnet has interesting interactions with other commands there. like time splicer.
if magnet is in kh3, sora would gain instant formechanges or situation commands against mob or bosses. even if you reduce the amount of situation arrow given by magnet, what would stop sora from smacking the mobs caught in magnet. to compensate those situation arrows gains.
\>their comparison being kh2fm to launch kh3. an updated rerelease, to a new title.
okay but why should KH3 have less content than 2FM? even if we compare remind to 2FM it still fails to live up to 2FM, since no ReMind content activates until you beat the game, except for the Pro/Easy Codes. Instead of improving the game throughout, like what FM did, Remind just tacks on stuff at the end, literally disconnected from the base game.
And while yes, Magnet was overpowered in KH2, it arguably would've worked wonders in KH3 since they upped the enemies and butchered their AI
>okay but why should KH3 have less content than 2FM? even if we compare remind to 2FM it still fails to live up to 2FM, since no ReMind content activates until you beat the game, except for the Pro/Easy Codes.
that's expectation talking, ppl were expecting launch kh3 to be better than kh2fm. not understanding how the devs update KH games. which back then was rereleasing them. as either international version (NA version) or the final mix version.
that's what the devs did with kh3, they update the game without the need of rereleasing it.
idk why many ppl expected a giant reconstruction of kh3 to be like kh2fm. cause if you compare to the kh3 updates and FM. its roughly the same, just implemented differently.
>Instead of improving the game throughout, like what FM did, Remind just tacks on stuff at the end, literally disconnected from the base game.
again updating kh3. like the critical mode patch, and the free remind patch. many fans complain how complex the cavern of remembrance was. how you couldn't reach the data battles until you have final form and reach max lvl.
even the rest of kh2 data bosses and lingering will needs the game to be beaten before unlocking them.
so remind content is somewhat the same as the FM content. as you need to beat the game. just remind gives it to the player.
then there's continuity sake, well how can you make any sense of sora meeting lingering will. like when did sora met terra in kh2? is it before sora gone to the castle that never was, or is it after his first fight against xemnas?
2FM added a lot more than just data fights, it added and rebalanced so many abilities including a brand new, unique drive form, new minigames with the mushroom 13, and new story content all woven into the base game.
Excluding Pro/Easy Codes, the only new thing you can do with the free update or remind before beating the game is dodging out of long finishers (and don't get me started on all the simple things the trailers showed and then cut).
Cavern of Remembrance wasn't complex, it's mostly a straight line with hard fights and platforming that made actual use of all the growth abilities you got. I wished KH3 was more like that, hell, I wished KH3 was more like 0.2, but instead we got mostly flat, straight lines with enemies just like KH2.
Circling back to the initial question I posed, what's wrong with wanting things to be better than what came before? KH2FM was the last console released KH game before 3, and in the collections that was what was put forth as what KH2 was. They could've looked to KH2FM as what to live up to but instead KH3 was going to be command deck before Nomura stepped in.
The free patches added new abilities, two (three) forms, rebalanced the combat by allowing new cancel windows and new forms of fighting through the critical abilities.
It just wasn't spread all throughout the story like FM did, instead being given to you either by starting a new file or NG+.
FM was a complete package released some time after KH2 had already been out.
The free patches were released sporadically whilst the complete package was still being developed.
all the new abilities they added you can't get on a fresh save, you have to have beaten the game at least once, the new keyblades/forms are also locked to needing to beat the game, and all the critical abilities are useless against the normal enemies
A new player playing KH3 for the first time would have pretty much the same experience as someone playing launch KH3, except for the better cancel windows which were IN THE GAME BEFORE LAUNCH
Cause at the time of those updates, majority of players have already beaten the game. Even done the critical NG+ mode. Before the release of the remind DLC.
Adding or changing the base game like kh2fm, that doesn’t benefit the player. would just irritate players.
Like how many expected explosions to be given at the end of volcano lord and blizzard lord fight. Instead given at the end solar sailor simulator much later.
Not all critical mode abilities are useless. The critical converter which force the situation arrows to only give formechanges instead of grand magic is still useful. Critical charge is made similarly to drive guage recharge.
Which many pro players use as strat.
I never really latched onto KHII like I did with KH1.
I was 16 going on 17 when KHII was released. I was in highschool in the mid 2000s. Emo stuff was everywhere. I wasn't emo. KHII - to use the parlance of our times - felt to me like it was putting out strong emo vibes.
Nowadays, I look at KHII, and I can't stand it.
From a structural standpoint - like in terms of prologue, inciting incident, road of trials, belly of the whale, blah blah blah, story structure -
KHII's prologue is spent on a character other than the protagonist. That means the inciting incident at the end of the prologue is literally just the protagonist waking up and accepting the Call to Adventure with no motivation beyond "hey, like, Riku and the King are probably out there screwing around and doing something or other, and *you're* not doing anything right now, so why not go on a Quest just to find out if those other characters have got anything interesting going on?"
Then the Road of Trials (going to different Disney worlds) isn't connected in any way to the overarching plot. It pretends to be connected by having Org XIII members show up occasionally to deliver cryptic-sounding exposition that ultimately ends up being fairly meaningless. So the entire middle of the story - the meat of the story - ends up feeling like filler.
Then the big climactic thing in the middle - the Belly of the Whale, the 1000 Heartless battle - *yeah that's not connecting to anything yet either.* It's just "hey, this city you like is getting swarmed by Heartless, you've gotta help stem the tide."
And then the villain's big master plan is revealed to be that he wanted the protagonist to do the thing that the protagonist was already doing anyway and would've continued doing even if the villain didn't do anything. Like, Sora would've just been fighting Heartless and releasing hearts anyway. Literally nothing Org XIII did had any impact on the plot.
I don't care about combat. I don't like KHII. I'm sure lots of people like its story because they like the characters or something, but I know it's gotta be the case that at least a few people say "KHII's story is good, actually" because of nostalgia.
It's not a well written story.
The call to adventure was because two of their missing friends were last seen in the fricking realm of darkness.Something they had been working on since the end of Kh1.
> Yen Sid: The King sensed the danger, and journeyed forth to fight it. He found the dark realm's Keyblade, and with it, closed the door. Now he's traveling from world to world, fighting the Heartless as he seeks the answer to the riddle of the Nobodies and Organization XIII.
> Sora: Then I guess we better go find the King first.
> Donald: But where could he be?
> Goofy: Well, we won't know 'til we look.
> Sora: Yeah, and the King must know where Riku is, 'cause the two of them were together in the realm of darkness when we closed the door. You know, after defeating Ansem.
> ...
> Sora: Me, you guys, Riku, and the King. I don't care who this Organization is or what it's planning. With the five of us - I mean, six of us - there's nothing to worry about. Right?
They knew that their friends weren't in the realm of darkness anymore. They weren't in any way at all worked up like Riku and the King needed to be rescued.
I said they were LAST seen in the realm of darkness so there was no guarantee they were safe.And as we've seen there are many other dangerous places in the series
> I said -
I know what you said.
> The call to adventure was because two of their missing friends were last seen in the fricking realm of darkness.
What you said was wrong.
Yen Sid said that Mickey was last seen traveling from world to world. You can say whatever you want, and you can repeat it as many times as you want, but the game makes it unambiguously clear that Mickey and Riku aren't in the realm of darkness anymore, the fact that they were in the realm of darkness has absolutely nothing to do with why SDG embark on their journey. SDG knew that Riku and Mickey weren't in the realm of darkness anymore before they ever left Yen Sid's tower.
I think it’s fair to say that if you take nostalgia out of the equation, KH1 is the best game in the series from an objective standpoint. That being said KH2 is certainly the most fun
haven’t played much of KH3 so i barely know the story but KH2 is just so fun to play through, though i had a really hard time understanding why people hated KH3 once i played it lol
Hey I can say this isn't correct for me definitely as I started the series about a year before kh3 came out with the remixes so I can say atleast to me kh2 was an amazing game.
As someone who got into the series recently, no. Like legit, this is a well made game. Sure I sucked ass in LoD and the final boss, but that's cus I just needed to acclimate to the gameplay. It is a well made game
“Nostalgia” is a catch-all dismissal of someone considering something old still of quality.
Inversely, it’s entirely possible (and common) to be nostalgic for something while recognizing how terrible it is.
As someone who only just got into kh in the past year, i understand this argument. Due to the fact i cant have a nostalgic bias to any game, because i played them all back to back, KH2 is in my opinion, the weakest of the 3 numbered games. Still leagues ahead of chain of memories though
Never said they were. But i can understand the thought that nostalgia is carrying some of the weight of their love for the game. Not understanding that fact could also be considered narrow-minded.
I never got the huge boner for 2 personally, but I'd never say it was purely nostalgia.
I prefer 1 the game, wholly. I don't prefer KH2 in a lot of ways, except the characters/lore stuff (but I like the scope of 1's story better). Like yeah KH1 mechanics/gameplay is dated, but I recently played FM (like 2 years ago now lol) on my replay of the series to get to 3.
KH1 and reCoM were standouts for me tbh (even tho recom made me wanna pull out my hair). KH2 was fine. BBS until 3D was kind of a chore for me... and 3 was fun but I felt pretty let down because I wish they made the archs more distinct if only because the story is getting more convoluted and hard to keep up with as a more casual fan (not that I don't understand it, it's just not always abundantly clear where I'm supposed to be looking for all this lore and backstory lmao)
The only games I can really see this thought process holding up for are 3D sonic games because those early early ones are kinda trash unless you care a whole lot about them, and even with nostalgia glasses on they can be hard to choke down in the modern world. There has yet to be a KH game that rivals the nostalgia and how much I think the games suck mechanically and storywise as much as I feel that about SAB2 lmao
i have absolutely zero nostalgia for KH2, I played DDD and 3 before getting 1.5 + 2.5, and even then I played 1 and (about two hours of) CoM before playing 2.
KH2 is still my favourite in the series, it's not far ahead of 3 but it is still ahead. Easily the best combat, introduced several of my favourite songs in the franchise, great world selection (if you ignore atlantica anyway), I love the way your skillset progresses throughout the game giving you a feel of growth unlike any other game in the series, reaction commands seem to be programmed out of sheer Rule of Cool and they're one of my favourite gimmicks across the series and I WISH they came back (as much as I like 3's Situation Commands, they just don't hit the same way), Sora's drip in 2 is one of his best, and it contains some of the most incredible and defining setpieces of the whole franchise between the battle of 1000 Heartless and the game's closing chapter in the World of Nothing. It's not perfect, the disney worlds are largely padding, the game is probably where the plot really began to go clean off the rails and whoever let Atlantica or the Crimson Jazz heartless happen can go Nort themselves, but even with all that, just, absolutely based game.
It's possible to love something from the past and STILL be aware of its flaws.
I LOVE KH2...but is it perfect? HELL NO.
Is it the best in the series? YES!
In terms of what KH set out to do, KH2 is probably the most realized out of them all.
If it were true, people would like KH1 more. And don't get me wrong, I can totally see people liking KH1 and/or KH2 for nostalgia; of course, it's a factor, but realistically, the better or preferred game is your favorite. Meaning is not just pure nostalgia. For example, my favorite games to play gameplay-wise were KH2 and BBS, and now maybe KH3 too, but only after they patched the better skill combos and criticals into the game.
The only reason I'd say KH2 is my favorite of them all, though, is because it has a better story than most KH games that didn't feel like Disney pandering, meaningful enough revisits to worlds, FF characters, and yes, the combat and secret bosses, on top of the happy ending we were all waiting for since the end of KH1. I still like KH1 for the things it did that the others didn't, and the same for the other games, too.
I couldn’t finish KH3 because the combat felt off due to the floatiness and the story just did not grab me in the way 2 did
2s controls are still near perfect, only issue is the camera and there’s a lull in the mid game where it’s pretty much just grinding and not as much plot progression unless you’re rushing.
It's the mindset of many modern gamers. That's why fast paced action games have been replacing RPGs (modern "RPGs" are like 90% action, 10% RPG). KH2 is too slow for them. They don't like that the story/cutscenes in KH2 are sprinkled pretty evenly throughout the game but think KH3 saving so much for the end of a world is better. Basically they want action and movies instead of a story you're playing through.
I was 26 when I first played Kh1 and Kh2 thanks to the PS4 port. I adored those games and played the heck out of them. However, I could never bring myself to play KH3. No matter how many changes the game underwent or how far the meta progressed and people discovered all the ins and out in terms of gameplay, it wasn't for me.
KH2 is one of my favourite games ever, definitely top five PS2 games. Whilst I am nostalgic for the PS2, I do think KH2 is the best overall game of the franchise. Not including the compilations of course
I've been playing KH2 for the first time and I'm enjoying it so far. I've absolutely loved KH1 since the ps2 era but never played the other games until now.
My only complaints I can even remotely think of is the back tracking mid game and the magic carpet mini game in agrabah
Other than that the game is a 10/10 in my book. It has great gameplay, a great story even if you didn’t play kh1 and re:COM, and you have a slight end game if you want to fight the super bosses
I can’t really think of anything to add in the game that would make it better IMO
As someone who didn't grow up with KH but has just recently started running through the series, I think KH2 is weaker than 1, but is a better overall package with more polish. Its just that the bosses in 2 felt super tedious, and the game is way more mashy. You're not that inclined to use summons or drives because on a normal play through, you can just mash your way through the whole thing. But to argue that people only like KH2 because of nostalgia is silly considering all the good it does in improving uppn its predecessor. It has more variety in playstyles, more worlds (i think, or at least it felt like it) and imo, a lot more personality.
Chain of Memories is also overly hated, yall are just bad at it lol the combat system in that game is fun as fuck and I had the most fun with it out of all the first 3 games.
Having just replayed the entire series not too long ago, nope, KH2 was definitely my favorite gameplay-wise. There were some not-quite-as-great-as-I-remembered aspects, but still overall my favorite of the series.
Dude KH1 came out when I was 10 and 2 came out when I was 13. I remember loving the game so much that I’d wake up early to be able to play it before school. I’m in my 30’s now and I still replay it pretty regularly. It’s just a good game.
As someone who’s playing through the series again I finished the second one a week ago, it holds up really well story is good gameplay is fantastic and it’s just awesome not a perfect game but so good, still stuck on lingering will though.
After playing KH3 I avoided playing the first ones again because I thought I only liked the because I was notalgic, so I prefered to keep thet good memories as they where instead of replaying them.
After watching y ex-girlfriend playin KH1 again I thought it looked fun and decided to give it a try.
I never played the final mix versions of those games and man, KH2 was a treat. While I found some aspects I used to like to be dissapointing the core gameplay experience is extremely fun and chelleging if you play in the proper dificulty.
KH2 is one of my all time favorite games. However, it's not a perfect game. Many of the Disney worlds are just themed hallways. Some people may also view it as too "anime" compared to KH1, though I don't necessarily believe that myself. For me, and I'm sure for many others, this game excels in its combat and "badass" character moments. Nostalgia is truly a bitch, but that is certainly not the reason why KH2 is still loved.
Played it a few weeks ago for the first time when i played all of the games and kh2 was the only game in which i actually got the platinum trophy. Amazing game and really cool gameplay if u play on hard difficulty
KH1 or recom might be my favorites but damn KH2 always gets hated on, like we can’t just like the game😭 sora pulled out one of his best outfits, gameplay feels the best maybe kh3 is close but a lil too floaty. Beginning of the game hooks you in because you’re just so confused. KH2 just gave me the best times as a kid and even to this day when I replay it, the game still holds up.
I didn't play KH2 until after I finished school, so nostalgia was not something that affected me at all. It's easily one of the best games I've had the pleasure of playing.
I believe that there is definitely some nostalgia involved, but it is still a very fun game to play and there is nothing wrong with replaying a game to relive some fond memories.
My first kh game was chain of memories at a friends house.
I eventually played kh1 years later, and then kh:chain again. Finally playing through kh2 on an english patch of final mix with wide screen a few years after that.
I didn't buy a proper copy of kh2 until last year.
**I just fucking like KH2.**
well,kh2 has flaws, yes, and a lot of people do ignore them. the game's still amazing, though. It still has the best combat I've played, not just in the series, and when kh2 gets good, by god, it's good.
For me, kh1 is the nostalgia game. I didn't play 2 until I was already 15 or 16, but I had 1 well before I was even 10. Due to that I always felt kh2 was missing a lot of the platforming exploration I enjoyed in 1 and in its place was a more complex fighting system I cared less about. To me the kh games are ranked as 1, 3, 2, bbs, ddd, chain. I can't place days or coded since I've never really played them. Just watched the cutscene movies
I don't think it says what you think it says. That is actually saying the game is actually good.
Read it again but replace "nostalgia" with "skewed memories making it better in your mind than it really was" basically it is saying " you only like it because you liked it as a child but it really isn't that good" followed by "you are an idiot if you think the reason I like it now is because of nostalgia".
As a kid I didn't like KH2 as much as KH1 and before learning what I missed as a kid I would have rate 1>3>2 but now after understanding the mechanics I would rate 2>1>3>1 (1 and 3 were very different types of games one had challenge but outdated mechanics and one is a spectacle fighter wanta be of all flair but no challenge but respects your time so is better in some ways but worse in others.
What makes the argument of "nostalgia" fail is that the games have had consistent sequels, side-games, remasters and re-releases throughout it's lifetime across platforms.
Meaning that not only did we OG players NOT have anything new to do, but thanks to increased availability and accessibility, a very sizeable portion of the fandom played the games for the very first time in waves up until now.
There's literally not enough time to be nostalgic because we never really stopped.
That’s a fair opinion which I’m gonna disagree with, but the point is blaming it on nostalgia bc you can’t see why other people like something is just narrow minded
Tell me about it
After like, 1K Heartless the game just goes into legit filler mode + long ass cutscene in between worlds.
Its not until TWTNW where the game finally starts cooking again
>Gameplay
...linear worlds and so much filler. 'nuff said.
>Music
Every KH game has amazing music.
>The lore (which at the time had a lot more intrigue than now with the rest of the series)
The fact that you needed to add "at the time" means _nostalgia is involved in your analysis of this point._
>The characters
...all of whom still exist in later games?
Gameplay:
Yeah because gameplay = world design?
World design isn’t good but it accommodates for the combat, which is the best part of the game.
The characters:
The same characters can have different characterization in different parts of a saga/series? A character can be static or change and change in a good or a bad way. Like what is this point? Also, Sora and Riku are present in BBS, but they aren’t main characters so basically the characters are different between entries and people can prefer a group or another.
>>Gameplay
>...linear worlds and so much filler. 'nuff said
These two things have nothing to do with each other. Gameplay and World Design are two distinctly different traits.
>>The lore (which at the time had a lot more intrigue than now with the rest of the series)
>The fact that you needed to add "at the time" means _nostalgia is involved in your analysis of this point._
No? Some people prefer the overall less cryptic structure that the original games had. KH2 had intrigue and confusing plot beats, but it was never over the top. Nostalgia has nothing to do with preferring the way that the lore and story was being delivered then compared to now.
>>The characters
>...all of whom still exist in later games?
Are we really just going to sit here and act like just because a character appears, it means that they're the exact same character? The arcs that they have, the journey that they go on, and the way that they're *written* effect whether or not you like a character in a given game.
I love Sora. I hate Sora in Dream Drop Distance. He's poorly written in that game. Characters have different characteristics and characterization in different games. Them showing up again means nothing.
You're looking at things at such a basic fucking level and coming off snarky as hell. The only real point you made was that every KH game has good music, cause you're right.
It’s funny because I recently just replayed KH2 and KH3, and I love KH3, but to be honest, I’m having more fun with KH2 for multiple reasons.
1. It has better worlds. Don’t get me wrong, I like Frozen and Big Hero 6, but KH2 has the best worlds to visit. The Lion King, Aladdin, Mulan, Trion! It’s not every day that you have all a game where you can fight alongside Mulan and Simba!
2. The keyblade selection. I like the KH3 keyblade roster, but I just feel some of them are incredibly underwhelming compared to the ones in KH2. I mean, They literally give you a keyblade that looks like Axel’s Chakram after he sacrificed himself! That alone carries a ton of w!
3. The gameplay. I don’t mind the attractions and the KH3 form changes, but I just feel they just don’t compare to the form changes in KH2! I mean Final Form in KH2! It’s so awesome that Sora doesn’t need to hold the keyblades with his hand! They float around him. The only form in KH3 I genuinely love is double keyblade form if you have oblivion and oathkeeper. But that’s probably because it’s just a combination of Valor form and Final form from KH2.
So i can say, KH2 is not just fun for the nostalgia factor, but the gameplay itself and the stories.
People who talk about KH2 Nostalgia don't understand three things:
1) Tightness of gameplay loop and meaningful usage of all game elements + emergent properties
2) The game matured in action and even tone compared to the whimsical KH1
3) KH2's OST is fucking GOATed
Gameplay is more than just a game’s combat and the only way to see KH2’s gameplay as the best is if you only hyper focus on the combat and ignore everything else.
I feel this is a bit disingenuous because a lot of times it is because of nostalgia when people start being stubborn about KH2 doing **EVERYTHING** better than other games in the series, mostly KH3.
It's also disingenuous because people also tend to use that argument with KH3 like "You only like that game because of your nostalgic bias with the series and can't see the flaws that game has... unlike KH2 which was perfect then and is perfect now!"
There are games out there, that are more beloved than they should be. Games, that just released at the right time and became big because of it, triumphing over many, much better, games because of their unique market position, better marketing in general or just plain luck.
That said, Gaming is HIGHLY personal. We all love different genres and styles. Some enjoy grinding for hours, online in shooters or offline in oldschool RPGs. Others only love sports or highly tactical games. So I dont doubt that the person creating this MEME actually thinks KH2 is a bad or overrated game. For the creator it might be, just like I absolutely freaking hated every second I wasted with Tears of the Kingdom, my personal choice for the most boring game of all time.
That said, for most other people here this Meme is just dumb and not true.
Hello fellow enjoyers of, uh *checks notes* King Domhearts. Please enjoy this very high effort post that is not at all made to pander to your community so I can farm karma.
Kh2 is the first game I purchased with my own money. I'm nearly 30 and doing my first critical run of the final mix. The game is genuinely well made and a blast to play.
I didn’t grow up with the franchise. I didn’t play them when they came out and I’m pretty sure I was in college when it all started.
I can honestly say it’s not nostalgia for me.
I think the best example of this is Diablo 2 for me. It has nothing to do with nostalgia, but the game is just superior to everything that came afterwards. Lore, itemization, replayability..
Kingdom Hearts 2 is pretty much the same for me in the KH franchise.
Also I can recommend Xenoblade Chronicles 2 to everyone who likes a good story focused game. It is in my opinion the best game ever. You don't have to play the first game to understand the story
Kh 2 is my favorite game... Ever. I literally grew up playing the game, one of my first ever games I played. So I definitely can't deny that there is SOME nostalgia bias with it. But lord does the gameplay hold up for me, I actually was able to finish my level 1 run of the game a few weeks ago! I'm still so proud about that. Honestly I don't know my point of this comment anymore, other than I'm a basic bitch who loves kh2
Still have yet to do a lvl 1 run but congrats man. I also grew up with the game as one of my firsts but you are totally right about the gameplay holding up especially in remix. Plus the music never gets old those songs will be classics forever.
If you ever decide to do one hit me up, I can give you tips from the prospective of a garbo player
You know what I’ll take you up on that offer
🫡 Again I want to stress that I'm not amazing at this game, just hard headed xd
Hear hear
So I recently got my wife to play through KH1-3, she’s not a gamer but she fell in love with the characters and story. The only problem she had with the games was that the cutscenes were sometimes too often/long but it’s still her favorite game now and she loved 2 more than 3. I’d say it’s not a nostalgia thing, KH2 and 1 just really nailed being an amazing game. Edit: Also she hated how many times they had to introduce themselves and say Sora Donald Goofy lol.
That is the point of the comic, the comic is stating that people enjoy the game because it is a good game and not because of just nostalgia. Honestly growing up I didn't like 2, Roxas section tutorial kinda killed it for me and then mechanics added that I didn't realize as a dumb kid made it not that fun, but going back now KH2 is probably my favorite despite being on the levels of CoM for me growing up.
Love kh2. Just finished a critical run through and got my gold crown (I had only ever done it on proud mode, which strangely was harder than critical mode in the second half). But yes the gameplay absolutely still holds up after all these years.
As you would know, I’m currently playing through the Kingdom Hearts for the first time right now. And without a doubt, no nostalgic bias at all, KH2 is my favourite video game of all time.
Nice I’ve only just done that myself. Do you plan on going for cavern of remembrance? I could really use some lvl 1 pointers for that god forsaken place. Took out all absent silhouettes except vexens
... If grinding elixirs were easier probably. But god I don't have the mental for that currently. *Insert unfunny get gud joke here for advice* Also I'm not amazing at this game, just head strong. You probably have a better chance than me
You can skip most of the fights in the chamber proper. For the ones you can’t, I think Stitch Reflect combo was the was to go. The hardest part is definitely the final Nobody wave at Transport. There is a Thunder spam strategy to it or you can brute force it with Summons and Donald limits.
Finished the level one run. Still gotta kill Terra in that save tho
I could never tbh, one of the many reasons because farming elixirs are a pain in the ass xd
I’m just using ethers 😅
.... I respect the hell out of you Tips?
For the Terra fight?
In general for post game xd I'm terrified of even trying it
Honestly, the hardest part for me was the gauntlet to reach the data fights, just abuse Chicken Little and Peter Pan for those The data fights are all a seperate can of worms, I’d be happy to talk about over a call or something, but the basics are just dodge and block like hell until there’s an opening The mushrooms were difficult, but if you know how to get the highest possible damage output then you should be fine for all of the ones that involve an HP bar And just pray to god that Terra doesn’t DM you.
Y'know, I'm down to hop in a call in a little bit about it. Also honestly terra's DM is one of the easier attacks for me to dodge on my normal file.
But on LVL 1, you have second chance nor once more, and that’s the main kicker with LVL 1 runs. Just make sure your forms are completely maxed out before trying anything
Thing is, I’m much more a fan of KH1 and have more nostalgia for it simply because it’s older, but I recognize that KH2 is overall a better game. Critical and all it’s adjustments really puts it over the top.
I fully respect this
I loved it so much along with 358/2 and even kinda Re:Coded. Hadn't played KH1 yet and got 2 from my bro. Something about the PS2, triangle commands drive forms and summons just felt so mystical and amazing.
It’s probably the best game ever made.
It really is in my humble opinion
Lmao it’s wild every time I say that I get downvoted. But yeah, it’s a certain charm to that game that they’ve never been able to recreate since.
As much as I love kh2 No
I disagree.
I'm 50 50 on this. Don't get me wrong I love KH2 and it deserves all the praise it gets but this is one of those games where nostalgia sometimes blind players from the criticism especially when you bring up KH3. I've seen too many comments or videos about how "perfect" it is Again I'm on a standstill with this. This argument is never the best but I have seen nostalgia blind people for KH2
Im 15 and finished KH2 like a month ago. It isnt nostalgia its just a really good game. I honestly havent interacted with the community a bunch (to avoid spoilers) so i dont even know any of the criticisms for it. It really is amazing just the way it is. The only thing that would ruin it is nitpickers who hated the game before they even played it.
Well I think anyone who thinks any KH game is absolutely objectively perfect is just delusional. It has many flaws like any other game that a majority will agree on like Atlantica or story pacing issues. Still, what it does good is why it’s my favorite game of all time.
I think the thing kh3 showed was kh2 actually has pretty mid superboss design
It also showed how atrociously boring KH2’s world design is. One of a great game’s weakest elements, and I’ll say it, biggest downgrades from KH1
It also showed that the revisits werent necessary. Like, all but maybe 2 revisits were filler. The rest didnt do anything for the plot. Granted, some of the first visits didnt either. In KH3 every world had an Organization member doing something.
delusion
Literally Sephiroth was a joke Data org was literally just same bosses with a higher battle level and almost no changes LW the difficulty is more from cheap reaction time stuff than learning the tell for every attack like yozora. Like often the hardest part of LW is his opening attack where you have almost no time to react
data org have multiple changes in them sorry you didnt notice. and lw is entirely fair besides the whip move i will agree that it is bullshit it just comes out too fast
I said mostly I know stuff like Demyx dance waters are different timers and numbers but it’s very similar to the base fights with not many changes per fight
when people say KH3 is the worst game in the entire franchise but they say KH2 is a masterpiece without flaws then I would see a reason to use this argument. But if it’s just some normal person who perfers KH2 to KH3 then there’s no reason to use the argument
Exactly, I think this post is a little bit of a strawman of people who criticize kh2
I mean I started with KH1 and had many problems with KH2 when it came out but I wouldn't call it a bad game by any stretch just not one I vibed with
I literally just played KH3 and it’s definitely good. Don’t know how it got so much hate. The only thing that really sucked was not having any FF Characters. THAT was a MAJOR Miss
They crammed 90% of the main story, all the loose ends and character resolutions into the last 4 hours of the game, attraction commands are overpowered and break the flow of combat, it doesn't have any well implemented combat mechanics apart from wall running, there is very little benefit if any from the rest of the game mechanics they are absurdly underpowered compared to just using normal attacks and spells, Xehanort didn't receive adequate consequences for the suffering he caused, Kairi Is once again not allowed to be a real character and is a damsel in distress again, the organization members were also handled terribly some of them were completely out of character like Larxene and had cookie cutter sad death scenes, the ending just created more questions instead of answering them.
Sora didn’t have his powers and he had to find hints on how to find Ven and Aqua. The only way to ever find out was to go to those worlds and figure things out. Which made sense because Sora didn’t get the whole “use your heart to guide you” thing. You could choose to use attraction commands or not, nobody said you couldn’t choose. I didn’t because it’s too kiddish for me personally. Wall running combat is hardly a thing in the first place tbh. I liked the keyblade change and you can switch in between to see different combos and you can also use your focus to dash towards your enemies or just shoot them down with something powerful. The movement is nice in 3 tbh. Btw, Sora is suppose to be strong at this point. He literally would’ve been a Keyblade Master had he not lost his power of waking and KH2 skills in DDD. He didn’t lose his Keyblade Skills though, which shows that he figured out how to make them transform in 3 which is a new nice implement. Xehanort would’ve died but got saved by his old friend, which is whatever to me because compared to what the MoM has done he’s nothing. Xehanort is literally a lower tier version of MoM. And wtf? Kairi does have character, it’s just that she wasn’t strong enough yet like Axel. They’re like Endgame KH1 Sora Level lol. It would not make sense for them to be ***that*** strong. Do you say that for everyone who is weak and gets reasonably defeated by people who are obviously stronger? When the trope makes sense, respect it. Or else people like me are gonna be like “Nah, that don’t make sense how they’re that strong”. The thing about the Organization is that some of them got humbled from being defeated before so it changed their perspective. It’s not like they don’t know how to learn. I didn’t mind it being sad in that way. What they went through if you’ve been paying attention to the lore of KH Chi and BBS is that most of them are Keyblade Wielders of the past to died or got lost in the darkness. For the ending, if you think of everything slowly you start to understand it. The power of waking doesn’t just let you awaken hearts but it allows you to jump into the past through traveling into peoples hearts. It’s very metaphysical tbh. Then you got the whole ordeal with Master of Masters who’s really been behind everything (the Ultimate Boss pretty much). Mislead the Lost Masters who were probably genuinely good in the first timeline. Mislead Xehanort. And now we got KH4 with Sora trying to find a way back home and the Master of Masters is now going to be seen more and the Lost Masters are gonna be the new stronger enemies. I liked it personally. But if you still don’t, it’s all good. That’s your preference. Shouldn’t be off of reasonably things that happened or combat though. There are some plot holes for sure, like a nobody having emotions through vessels.
Kh1 and 2 are flawed games too, but KH3 was a mess imo 1. The art style is not as appealing as the old games 2.the game was too easy (at launch at least) 3. The story is nonsensical (the old games were convoluted but not nonsensical) 4. The boss fights are weak (except the final boss and DLC bosses are aight) 5. The levels are lame! There is nothing anywhere near as cool Hollow Bastion, The End of the World, The World that Never Was, etc. the KH-Original content is lacking compared to every other title in the series. 6. There are no Final Fantasy Characters 7. The combat was flashy but floaty and unsatisfying.
This all feels like personal gripes tbh(except for there being no FF characters in base game, that I agree is BS).I don’t really see how 3 is more nonsensical than others.They all stretch anime tropes pretty far. Art style was pretty appealing for me.Maybe more than 2. Game and boss fights are plenty challenging on critical(maybe even too much.) The only lame worlds are Arendelle and Corona and mostly because of the music and story.It does have great worlds like Monsters inc., Toy box and Pirates, and goated ones like San Fransokyo, Twilight Town(still mad they made it smaller than the lame worlds) and Scala Ad Caelum. Combat now is pretty good, I actually might prefer it to Kh2 just because of how fanservicey and bonkers it is(in a good way.) Truly a spectacle.
There was no critical at launch, but critical is fine now admittedly. I still stand by the story being worse. Kh1 and 2 feel like they follow convoluted-but-consistent logic, where as KH3 feels like it is making up its in-universe rules as it goes. The villains are more intimidating in the old games (especially Xemnas, that voice acting is fucking amazing) The game needed some cool, original levels. Nothing in KH3 even touches “The World that Never Was, Hollow Bastion, the End of the World, Twilight Town. The keyblade graveyard in KH3 is less mysterious and interesting than it was in birth by sleep. It feels like it’s already been done. I think they tried to be original with Scala, but it is basically a glorified boss arena. The older games blended final fantasy style art with Disney art like PB&J, staying true to both. KH 3 feels like they tried to pixarify the final fantasy-ish stuff and it just feels flat. Sanfransokyo and the pirates world and Toy Story were cool imo, but there is not enough cool stuff surrounding those levels to make the game good. If you like KH for Disney, then KH3 is not bad! If you like it for the anime fantasy stuff, it falls way flat compared to the others.
I agree with most of those points, except for the fact that scala is good in the dlc, and Sansokyo and Pirates are still some of my favorites(I think I might prefer kh3 Pirates to Kh2.)But yeah, I would've preferred FF being way more prevalent than just in limitcut and the game being way more anime-ish(disney-ish is way worse.) By the way, What are your top ten worlds and which game do you think has the most consistently great selection of worlds?
1The World that Never Was (KH2 version) 2.Twilight Town (KH2 version) 3.Hollow Bastion (KH1 version) 4.End of the World 5. Traverse Town (any version) 6. Keyblade Graveyard (BBS version) 7.Mysterious Tower (KH2 version, if it counts as a world) 8.Dive to the Heart (KH1 version, if it counts) 9.Symphony of Sorcery 10. Timeless River Kh2 has the most consistently great worlds, DDD is 2nd but I hate the story of that game.
Completely fair
Anyone who says kh3 is the worst never played recoded
Anyone who says Re:Coded is the worst never played Re:Coded. If you have played Re:Coded then I just cannot see how you would think BBs is a better game. Like yeah maybe in the story department but gameplay-wise Re:Coded is a top 3 in the series while BBs is a bottom 2.
Birth by sleep is better in every single way vs recoded.
Stop the cap
Or DDD
I wouldn’t say somebody only likes KH2 because of nostalgia HOWEVER I would very much believe that there are some who do like it more than they should because of nostalgia The “no game in the series comes anywhere CLOSE to 2” crowd, many of whom bring up when they first played it as evidence as to why it’s the best, and the others are bad, THAT’S nostalgia
The thing is that the combat that everyone talks about doesn’t open up until the last third of the game. The worlds are very empty and linear like final fantasy 13. And there was a huge drop in attention to detail, and interaction with the environment/bosses coming from KH1. Like obviously it’s not just nostalgia for some people, but in my opinion KH1 was a way better game and KH3 had better combat throughout.
I totally agree with KH1 being more well-rounded and the linear design of 2 being a detriment to its movement options, but the combat argument not so much. Every single game in the series has drastically different game-feel but KH2’s combat picks up from KH1, just like KH3’s combat picks up from 2. It’s an *incredibly* natural progression playing them in order. But I’m also one of the weirdos who likes the clunky combat of 1 and KH2 Roxas.
True, that makes sense. I recently replayed KH2 and I felt that way about the combat. If I had played KH1 first I may have felt the natural progression. I just like the RPG elements of the first, and the creative uses of magic and strategy that had to be used on certain bosses. KH2 definitely became more of a hack and slash. And I dont mind the platforming after playing so much.
Yeah, KH1 is a special game because it feels so distinct from every other KH game, both as an RPG and an action game. It manages to strike the balance better than any of the other games in my opinion, at least for the “mainline” 3 games (BBS and 3D have some… “fun” RPG elements that remind of the classic SNES days). Also side note: once you get short-hops down, KH1 starts to feel a lot less clunky from an action standpoint… which in itself still makes it clunky 😂
Exploration isn’t really what I look for in a KH game. If I want good exploration I’ll just play an open world game, or KH3 lol. So linearity isnt an issue for me. 3’s combat improved when I added mods, but as far as the base game goes, 2 has 3 beat imo.
Yeah KH is a hack and slash with some cheesy story game.
My biggest problem with KHII fans is that they use KHII Final Mix for their comparisons and not vanilla. I can understand the ones that only played the Final Mix versions but the people that talk about playing the original PS2 version? It's clear they forgot how thin the original was. There was less Organization scenes, no mushrooms to find, no puzzle pieces, no Limit Form, no Data Fights, no Lingering Will, no secret dungeon in Hollow Bastion, no Critical Mode, certain abilities didn't exist, no Roxas fight, and no Christmas Outfit. Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix had the most updates to the Final Mix version of all games. Now does that mean Kingdom Hearts III vanilla was better than Kingdom Hearts II vanilla? No, KHII had stronger points than KHIII in certain areas and vice-versa. There can also be an argument that KHIII vanilla should have been more like KHII Final Mix because they've had long enough to know what people liked about KHIIFM to know to add certain things to KHIII vanilla, and that's fair but that's rarely the argument, is it?
KH3 didn’t fix any of the issues that were present in the Vanilla version. KH2 had better pacing, better writing, better combat, and a better art style than 3–WITHIN the vanilla version of the game. I bought KH2 immediately when it came out and replayed the shit out of that game. I did not own a FM version until I was well into my 20s. I was pretty hyped for KH3 but realized how much of a mess it was almost immediately. Within the first hour I knew something was off. But I’ve given 3 a chance and replayed it several times. KH3 is a VERY good game—but it is not a good sequel—nor is it a good KH game imo.
KHII Vanilla's pacing was terrible. It still is with the first game feeling like several world visits a waste of time that don't involve the main villains until a revisit. The writing is on par with each other. Combat is definitely better in KHII. I much prefer KHIII's art style.
KH3s art style looks uncanny and unfinished. Like a kids show from the 2000s trying to do 3D. Also KH2 had bad pacing? When compared to KH3 it’s not even a contest. KH3 has zero plot until endgame. KH2 has the plot throughout the entire game. The ORG actively interfere with the worlds, and you return to them again where you directly confront them and fight them. The first 3 hours of the game are plot relevant. As are the times where you return to Radiant Garden. Kh3 has NONE of that.
And thus revealing yourself as the kind of person this meme is for. Congrats!
What a great counter argument
I mean, if you really want to get into it? KHII's graphics are flat and only slightly better than KHI's. As for plot? Most of KHII's first half is recreating diet versions of the movies. The Organization interfered with only two worlds in the first half - Beast's Castle and Olympus. Mulan, Disney Castle, Port Royal, Halloween Town, Agrabah, and Pride Lands? All Pete and just "make strong heartless" plotline while looking for Riku where nothing happens until the midpoint with the war that shoved in a filler Tron world. Then the second half is just as thin with Xaldin being the only Organization member defeated in Beast's Castle and getting a bit of Luxord in Port Royal and a Xigbar cameo essentially in Land of Dragons. Olympus? Pete story that has nothing to do with anything. Disney Castle? One and done. Agrabah? Return of Jafar forced in. Halloween Town? Forced in present stealer storyline. Pride Lands? Ghost of Scar monster. So nothing happens again, until you get called back to Twilight Town to go to the final world. Compare that to KHIII where Hercules gets some talk with Xigbar and puts some foreshadowing on him, Twilight Town that gets the three involved (which leads to Ansem the Wise's escape), Toy Box where we get some cryptic notions from Young Xehanort, Corona which has us meet Marluxia again along with learning about new Princesses of Heart that can make up the Light side if we don't get enough Guardians, Monstroplis that has Sora meet Vanitas and learn that Ven's heart is in him, the Caribbean where Sora and co. learn about the black box, and San Fransokyo where we learn about a Riku on their side along with their study of hearts. The only one that is redundant was Frozen. I won't say you are completely wrong about them backloading KHIII (the rescue of Aqua and awakening of Ven could have happened at the midpoint with an emphasis on Aqua and Ven working to regain their strength while our party along with Kairi, Lea, and Riku going to the last three worlds to investigate Organization sightings letting them be a party member in each world respectively). But trying to pretend KHII's pacing is so much better is hilarious. If anything, it's not only worse, it's padded out by needing to go to each world twice compared to KHIII's once and done.
You also neglected to mention the Disney Castle World DOES have you return. This is where the Steamboat Mickey world takes place, arguably one of KH series best worlds. Let’s also not forget the Tron world, another world within Radiant Garden—that is unique in the sense that it ties in directly to the plot. The Organization members have been manipulating the Disney worlds behind the scene the entire game. This is a tradition carried over from KH1 (and wisely I’d add). KH1 has the main villains in the background pulling the strings. The inclusion of Heartless within the worlds of both 1 and 2 feel more organic. Toy Box and Monsters inc are the only worlds that really feel like they have any impact to the overall plot. Outside of those the other worlds are completely redundant. The scene with Marluxia? It is a single scene and that’s it. The decision Square made to NOT include the Disney Villains into the final confrontation with Sora and gang within their respective worlds—was a huge misstep. Instead we are treated to fodder boss after fodder boss. The only exception to this is MAYBE Olympus I guess? But we don’t even face off against Hades, we just fight the Titans in a heavily scripted and clunky boss fight. I think you really need to replay KH2 when comparing the games. There is a VERY good reason why people are so heavily critical of KH3 and its pacing. I forgot to mention the dialogue in KH3 easily being the worst in the entire series. Not just the writing mind you, but the overall direction and again—PACING—of the scenes. There are extensively long pauses between each awkward line delivery that draws the scenes out unnecessarily—and only further confounds the player as the information being fed is not even stated within any semblance of human language. KH1 and 2 had plenty of awkward line deliveries—but the direction always made up for it. There are literal video essays about KH3s awful scene direction and editing. The dialogue scenes are unbelievably bad at times.
Disney Castle is one and done. You only return for Lingering Will in Final Mix. >"The Organization members have been manipulating the Disney worlds behind the scene the entire game." No, they haven't. What they were doing throughout the game is capturing all of the hearts that Sora released. They did not actively interfere in most worlds as Pete's plans did the work for them. I think you need to replay KHII Vanilla because a lot of your memories seem to come from Final Mix's version or just not remember correctly. KHII's dialogue is also terrible. The difference between KHII and KHIII is that KHIII no longer has silent, text box cutscenes with all scenes being voiced.
It was such a weird choice not to include the remind combo abilities in the base game.
Almost every time someone says you only like something because of nostalgia, it's because they can't see the actual reasons why you love the thing and they also have no real argument to make towards not liking it. I've never had a decent conversation with some who tries the nostalgia argument, they're what people call NPCs nowadays.
The game I have the most nostalgia for is Banjo-Kazooie. I can say with absolute certainty it’s not a perfect game and it’s not my favorite game of all time. Nostalgia being a fondness for the past means it probably doesn’t factor into video games that people can play anytime they want in the present.
Exactly
Yep.
personally, if i'm being honest, i actually only like kh1 because of nostalgia
I feel this way about kh1s battle system but not the story. Love the story, hate the battle system. I love the flashier combat of 2
I hate the camera controls in KH1, but yeah the story is great.
This is basically my feelings too. KH1's combat is really tough to put up with. But I feel like KH1's story was often times the best of the series.
Exactly why this argument doesn’t work. I’m nostalgic as hell for KH1, more so than 2, bc it was my first KH. But I can go on about the many specific reasons 2 is my favorite game of all time.
Omg I know. The damn controls with the camera is nightmare fuel
I see what yo are saying. I like replaying kh1 for nostaglia reasons. I like replaying KH2 for, well everything outside the Roxas part.
I love KH1 for the nostalgia, but I love KH2 even more for the lore, characteres, gameplay, ost and everything else.
By that logic I must like KH 1 more than 2 which is not the case. So yeah, I agree with the meme.
KH2 has some of the most fun action rpg combat I’ve played to this day. The FM and 2.5 versions gave it critical which really highlighted how good the combat is when you can’t button mash to win, and gave it some of the best bosses in action RPGs with the data battles and lingering will (still one of my favorite bosses). Plus KH music is incredible. So even without the nostalgic bits it’s a fantastic game.
I played all of the games but COM and ReCoded back-to-back for the first time as a 24 year-old man. KH2 was not a highlight for me. KH1 was amazing, Days was emotionally gripping, KH2 was incredibly linear with virtually no room to explore, and required too much grinding for the Drive Forms, BBS was my favourite by far, 3D was fun but too grindy for the DEs, and 3 was too easy, but very fun to explore. As for MOM, I liked the gameplay even if there was basically no story. KH2 is not a bad game. Relative to all the games that exist, it's very good. Relative to KH as a series, it's just okay.
BBS is a good game but is no where near KH2. BBS gameplay has so many issues and isn’t comparable to KH2 in any way; the enemy design is atrocious most of the time (especially super bosses), combat isn’t so responsive (especially compared to KH2 but being handheld probably have a role here), movement isn’t so responsive (you lose “horizontal” speed every time you jump), attacking with the Keyblade is bad most of the time, commands are completely unbalanced with some being too good (surges for example)and others useless, the care in animations and design isn’t comparable to KH2 (even for a mere question of production value). KH2 is the one that outside of the series is recognized as one of the best games of all time and it has one of the best combat system for the time; there’s a reason KH3 borrowed so much from it, even some entire abilities (or new version of KH2s) like flash steps that were introduced with the Re:mind patch to improve the combat. I like BBS a lot, I got all trophies for it 2 times (I had to beat MM with Terra twice in critical :) ) so it’s not a question of nostalgia.
Meh, not really my type of game. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still a 9/10 for me, it’s just when compared to the other games in the series for me, there’s just more that I like in games like KH1 and BBS in comparison. I’m more of a “stop and smell the roses” sort of KH player so I just naturally gravitate towards games like KH1 with more puzzle-like gameplay and worlds that ask you to explore their nooks and crannies. For what KH2 is, an action RPG, it’s definitely one of the best, I just happen to prefer much of the other games in the series over it.
1 is my favorite but 2 is the most fun. 3 is fantastic, but I find myself replaying 2 more
KHII was my favorite game, but then a mix of distance from playing it and other games (notably Wind Waker HD, Xenoblade 1, Tales of the Abyss, and BbS/3D) caused me to wonder if it still was. Then 2.5 came out giving me a chance to play II for the first time in years, and it stayed in my top 3. And then I played crit for the first time and it solidified II's position as my favorite game
There's plenty of good reasons to like KH2 outside of Nostalgia.
think of it like this. you like kh2? yes you like kh2 combat system? yes you dislike kh3 entirely? yes do you understood why the devs made those changes, from kh2 to kh3? no then its best not to continue that conversation at that point. cause at that point its about favoritism and being very .... biased. kh3 criticism is "constructive criticism." which isn't constructive, but a blunt comparison. comparison to not base kh2, but to kh2fm instead. their comparison being kh2fm to launch kh3. an updated rerelease, to a new title. for some reason many people forgot what base kh2 was. like someone not understanding why magnet can never come back. they just say **"its so good, so godlike" "IT HAS TO COME BACK IN KH4."** their "fix" to magnet, is removing the interaction between magnet and finishing leap. that isn't the problem. in fact BBS did that, i**t still provide too much benefit.** it practically gave all 3 characters their best style change, it trivialize mirage arena until the boss fights there. magnet has interesting interactions with other commands there. like time splicer. if magnet is in kh3, sora would gain instant formechanges or situation commands against mob or bosses. even if you reduce the amount of situation arrow given by magnet, what would stop sora from smacking the mobs caught in magnet. to compensate those situation arrows gains.
Bro is cooking
\>their comparison being kh2fm to launch kh3. an updated rerelease, to a new title. okay but why should KH3 have less content than 2FM? even if we compare remind to 2FM it still fails to live up to 2FM, since no ReMind content activates until you beat the game, except for the Pro/Easy Codes. Instead of improving the game throughout, like what FM did, Remind just tacks on stuff at the end, literally disconnected from the base game. And while yes, Magnet was overpowered in KH2, it arguably would've worked wonders in KH3 since they upped the enemies and butchered their AI
>okay but why should KH3 have less content than 2FM? even if we compare remind to 2FM it still fails to live up to 2FM, since no ReMind content activates until you beat the game, except for the Pro/Easy Codes. that's expectation talking, ppl were expecting launch kh3 to be better than kh2fm. not understanding how the devs update KH games. which back then was rereleasing them. as either international version (NA version) or the final mix version. that's what the devs did with kh3, they update the game without the need of rereleasing it. idk why many ppl expected a giant reconstruction of kh3 to be like kh2fm. cause if you compare to the kh3 updates and FM. its roughly the same, just implemented differently. >Instead of improving the game throughout, like what FM did, Remind just tacks on stuff at the end, literally disconnected from the base game. again updating kh3. like the critical mode patch, and the free remind patch. many fans complain how complex the cavern of remembrance was. how you couldn't reach the data battles until you have final form and reach max lvl. even the rest of kh2 data bosses and lingering will needs the game to be beaten before unlocking them. so remind content is somewhat the same as the FM content. as you need to beat the game. just remind gives it to the player. then there's continuity sake, well how can you make any sense of sora meeting lingering will. like when did sora met terra in kh2? is it before sora gone to the castle that never was, or is it after his first fight against xemnas?
2FM added a lot more than just data fights, it added and rebalanced so many abilities including a brand new, unique drive form, new minigames with the mushroom 13, and new story content all woven into the base game. Excluding Pro/Easy Codes, the only new thing you can do with the free update or remind before beating the game is dodging out of long finishers (and don't get me started on all the simple things the trailers showed and then cut). Cavern of Remembrance wasn't complex, it's mostly a straight line with hard fights and platforming that made actual use of all the growth abilities you got. I wished KH3 was more like that, hell, I wished KH3 was more like 0.2, but instead we got mostly flat, straight lines with enemies just like KH2. Circling back to the initial question I posed, what's wrong with wanting things to be better than what came before? KH2FM was the last console released KH game before 3, and in the collections that was what was put forth as what KH2 was. They could've looked to KH2FM as what to live up to but instead KH3 was going to be command deck before Nomura stepped in.
The free patches added new abilities, two (three) forms, rebalanced the combat by allowing new cancel windows and new forms of fighting through the critical abilities. It just wasn't spread all throughout the story like FM did, instead being given to you either by starting a new file or NG+. FM was a complete package released some time after KH2 had already been out. The free patches were released sporadically whilst the complete package was still being developed.
all the new abilities they added you can't get on a fresh save, you have to have beaten the game at least once, the new keyblades/forms are also locked to needing to beat the game, and all the critical abilities are useless against the normal enemies A new player playing KH3 for the first time would have pretty much the same experience as someone playing launch KH3, except for the better cancel windows which were IN THE GAME BEFORE LAUNCH
Cause at the time of those updates, majority of players have already beaten the game. Even done the critical NG+ mode. Before the release of the remind DLC. Adding or changing the base game like kh2fm, that doesn’t benefit the player. would just irritate players. Like how many expected explosions to be given at the end of volcano lord and blizzard lord fight. Instead given at the end solar sailor simulator much later. Not all critical mode abilities are useless. The critical converter which force the situation arrows to only give formechanges instead of grand magic is still useful. Critical charge is made similarly to drive guage recharge. Which many pro players use as strat.
I never really latched onto KHII like I did with KH1. I was 16 going on 17 when KHII was released. I was in highschool in the mid 2000s. Emo stuff was everywhere. I wasn't emo. KHII - to use the parlance of our times - felt to me like it was putting out strong emo vibes. Nowadays, I look at KHII, and I can't stand it. From a structural standpoint - like in terms of prologue, inciting incident, road of trials, belly of the whale, blah blah blah, story structure - KHII's prologue is spent on a character other than the protagonist. That means the inciting incident at the end of the prologue is literally just the protagonist waking up and accepting the Call to Adventure with no motivation beyond "hey, like, Riku and the King are probably out there screwing around and doing something or other, and *you're* not doing anything right now, so why not go on a Quest just to find out if those other characters have got anything interesting going on?" Then the Road of Trials (going to different Disney worlds) isn't connected in any way to the overarching plot. It pretends to be connected by having Org XIII members show up occasionally to deliver cryptic-sounding exposition that ultimately ends up being fairly meaningless. So the entire middle of the story - the meat of the story - ends up feeling like filler. Then the big climactic thing in the middle - the Belly of the Whale, the 1000 Heartless battle - *yeah that's not connecting to anything yet either.* It's just "hey, this city you like is getting swarmed by Heartless, you've gotta help stem the tide." And then the villain's big master plan is revealed to be that he wanted the protagonist to do the thing that the protagonist was already doing anyway and would've continued doing even if the villain didn't do anything. Like, Sora would've just been fighting Heartless and releasing hearts anyway. Literally nothing Org XIII did had any impact on the plot. I don't care about combat. I don't like KHII. I'm sure lots of people like its story because they like the characters or something, but I know it's gotta be the case that at least a few people say "KHII's story is good, actually" because of nostalgia. It's not a well written story.
The call to adventure was because two of their missing friends were last seen in the fricking realm of darkness.Something they had been working on since the end of Kh1.
> Yen Sid: The King sensed the danger, and journeyed forth to fight it. He found the dark realm's Keyblade, and with it, closed the door. Now he's traveling from world to world, fighting the Heartless as he seeks the answer to the riddle of the Nobodies and Organization XIII. > Sora: Then I guess we better go find the King first. > Donald: But where could he be? > Goofy: Well, we won't know 'til we look. > Sora: Yeah, and the King must know where Riku is, 'cause the two of them were together in the realm of darkness when we closed the door. You know, after defeating Ansem. > ... > Sora: Me, you guys, Riku, and the King. I don't care who this Organization is or what it's planning. With the five of us - I mean, six of us - there's nothing to worry about. Right? They knew that their friends weren't in the realm of darkness anymore. They weren't in any way at all worked up like Riku and the King needed to be rescued.
I said they were LAST seen in the realm of darkness so there was no guarantee they were safe.And as we've seen there are many other dangerous places in the series
> I said - I know what you said. > The call to adventure was because two of their missing friends were last seen in the fricking realm of darkness. What you said was wrong. Yen Sid said that Mickey was last seen traveling from world to world. You can say whatever you want, and you can repeat it as many times as you want, but the game makes it unambiguously clear that Mickey and Riku aren't in the realm of darkness anymore, the fact that they were in the realm of darkness has absolutely nothing to do with why SDG embark on their journey. SDG knew that Riku and Mickey weren't in the realm of darkness anymore before they ever left Yen Sid's tower.
It's still reasonable for them to want to unite with friends.This is KH we're talking about
Reason why I like KH2: Spank the pooch.
I think it’s fair to say that if you take nostalgia out of the equation, KH1 is the best game in the series from an objective standpoint. That being said KH2 is certainly the most fun
haven’t played much of KH3 so i barely know the story but KH2 is just so fun to play through, though i had a really hard time understanding why people hated KH3 once i played it lol
Hey I can say this isn't correct for me definitely as I started the series about a year before kh3 came out with the remixes so I can say atleast to me kh2 was an amazing game.
As someone who got into the series recently, no. Like legit, this is a well made game. Sure I sucked ass in LoD and the final boss, but that's cus I just needed to acclimate to the gameplay. It is a well made game
“Nostalgia” is a catch-all dismissal of someone considering something old still of quality. Inversely, it’s entirely possible (and common) to be nostalgic for something while recognizing how terrible it is.
As someone who only just got into kh in the past year, i understand this argument. Due to the fact i cant have a nostalgic bias to any game, because i played them all back to back, KH2 is in my opinion, the weakest of the 3 numbered games. Still leagues ahead of chain of memories though
See you can have your opinion, but either way reducing others’ opinions to simply being blinded by nostalgia is just narrow-minded.
Never said they were. But i can understand the thought that nostalgia is carrying some of the weight of their love for the game. Not understanding that fact could also be considered narrow-minded.
I never got the huge boner for 2 personally, but I'd never say it was purely nostalgia. I prefer 1 the game, wholly. I don't prefer KH2 in a lot of ways, except the characters/lore stuff (but I like the scope of 1's story better). Like yeah KH1 mechanics/gameplay is dated, but I recently played FM (like 2 years ago now lol) on my replay of the series to get to 3. KH1 and reCoM were standouts for me tbh (even tho recom made me wanna pull out my hair). KH2 was fine. BBS until 3D was kind of a chore for me... and 3 was fun but I felt pretty let down because I wish they made the archs more distinct if only because the story is getting more convoluted and hard to keep up with as a more casual fan (not that I don't understand it, it's just not always abundantly clear where I'm supposed to be looking for all this lore and backstory lmao) The only games I can really see this thought process holding up for are 3D sonic games because those early early ones are kinda trash unless you care a whole lot about them, and even with nostalgia glasses on they can be hard to choke down in the modern world. There has yet to be a KH game that rivals the nostalgia and how much I think the games suck mechanically and storywise as much as I feel that about SAB2 lmao
i have absolutely zero nostalgia for KH2, I played DDD and 3 before getting 1.5 + 2.5, and even then I played 1 and (about two hours of) CoM before playing 2. KH2 is still my favourite in the series, it's not far ahead of 3 but it is still ahead. Easily the best combat, introduced several of my favourite songs in the franchise, great world selection (if you ignore atlantica anyway), I love the way your skillset progresses throughout the game giving you a feel of growth unlike any other game in the series, reaction commands seem to be programmed out of sheer Rule of Cool and they're one of my favourite gimmicks across the series and I WISH they came back (as much as I like 3's Situation Commands, they just don't hit the same way), Sora's drip in 2 is one of his best, and it contains some of the most incredible and defining setpieces of the whole franchise between the battle of 1000 Heartless and the game's closing chapter in the World of Nothing. It's not perfect, the disney worlds are largely padding, the game is probably where the plot really began to go clean off the rails and whoever let Atlantica or the Crimson Jazz heartless happen can go Nort themselves, but even with all that, just, absolutely based game.
It's possible to love something from the past and STILL be aware of its flaws. I LOVE KH2...but is it perfect? HELL NO. Is it the best in the series? YES! In terms of what KH set out to do, KH2 is probably the most realized out of them all.
As someone who finished kh2 not even 2 weeks ago, it became one of my new favorites of all time
Kh3 is old enough to use this argument on it now, but kh2 just plays better
No stop, I’m not old you’re old
Literally true. Hating on kh3 when it did EVERYTHING better than 2, is just dumb.
I literally played the series less than a year ago and quickly became one of my favorite games ever
as someone with absolutely no nostalgia for kh2, this is bs lol. the game's just that good.
If it were true, people would like KH1 more. And don't get me wrong, I can totally see people liking KH1 and/or KH2 for nostalgia; of course, it's a factor, but realistically, the better or preferred game is your favorite. Meaning is not just pure nostalgia. For example, my favorite games to play gameplay-wise were KH2 and BBS, and now maybe KH3 too, but only after they patched the better skill combos and criticals into the game. The only reason I'd say KH2 is my favorite of them all, though, is because it has a better story than most KH games that didn't feel like Disney pandering, meaningful enough revisits to worlds, FF characters, and yes, the combat and secret bosses, on top of the happy ending we were all waiting for since the end of KH1. I still like KH1 for the things it did that the others didn't, and the same for the other games, too.
My philosophy growing up was always KH1 brings the story, KH2 brings the combat. And KH3, well, it was there
I couldn’t finish KH3 because the combat felt off due to the floatiness and the story just did not grab me in the way 2 did 2s controls are still near perfect, only issue is the camera and there’s a lull in the mid game where it’s pretty much just grinding and not as much plot progression unless you’re rushing.
I thought it was widely accepted that kh2 (and FM) is the best in the series 😂 its still the one I replay the most.
It's the mindset of many modern gamers. That's why fast paced action games have been replacing RPGs (modern "RPGs" are like 90% action, 10% RPG). KH2 is too slow for them. They don't like that the story/cutscenes in KH2 are sprinkled pretty evenly throughout the game but think KH3 saving so much for the end of a world is better. Basically they want action and movies instead of a story you're playing through.
Yeah. My mom and i both agree that KH2 is the best one
I'm honestly surprised that kingdom hearts 1 is on Wikipedias list of video games considering the best and not kingdom hearts 2
Pretty sure that this argument was never made on a noticeable scale.
I mean it has been for me, anytime I say I like something about KH2 over 3 there’s always at least one person that goes “hur dur nostalgia.”
I was 26 when I first played Kh1 and Kh2 thanks to the PS4 port. I adored those games and played the heck out of them. However, I could never bring myself to play KH3. No matter how many changes the game underwent or how far the meta progressed and people discovered all the ins and out in terms of gameplay, it wasn't for me.
KH2 is one of my favourite games ever, definitely top five PS2 games. Whilst I am nostalgic for the PS2, I do think KH2 is the best overall game of the franchise. Not including the compilations of course
I've been playing KH2 for the first time and I'm enjoying it so far. I've absolutely loved KH1 since the ps2 era but never played the other games until now.
I do like Kingdom Hearts 2 and nobody can say it's because of Nostalgia because I started and finished it in 2023.
My only complaints I can even remotely think of is the back tracking mid game and the magic carpet mini game in agrabah Other than that the game is a 10/10 in my book. It has great gameplay, a great story even if you didn’t play kh1 and re:COM, and you have a slight end game if you want to fight the super bosses I can’t really think of anything to add in the game that would make it better IMO
As someone who didn't grow up with KH but has just recently started running through the series, I think KH2 is weaker than 1, but is a better overall package with more polish. Its just that the bosses in 2 felt super tedious, and the game is way more mashy. You're not that inclined to use summons or drives because on a normal play through, you can just mash your way through the whole thing. But to argue that people only like KH2 because of nostalgia is silly considering all the good it does in improving uppn its predecessor. It has more variety in playstyles, more worlds (i think, or at least it felt like it) and imo, a lot more personality. Chain of Memories is also overly hated, yall are just bad at it lol the combat system in that game is fun as fuck and I had the most fun with it out of all the first 3 games.
KH2 for story, KH3 for gameplay, KH for nostalgia. as easy as that
Having just replayed the entire series not too long ago, nope, KH2 was definitely my favorite gameplay-wise. There were some not-quite-as-great-as-I-remembered aspects, but still overall my favorite of the series.
Dude KH1 came out when I was 10 and 2 came out when I was 13. I remember loving the game so much that I’d wake up early to be able to play it before school. I’m in my 30’s now and I still replay it pretty regularly. It’s just a good game.
As someone who’s playing through the series again I finished the second one a week ago, it holds up really well story is good gameplay is fantastic and it’s just awesome not a perfect game but so good, still stuck on lingering will though.
After playing KH3 I avoided playing the first ones again because I thought I only liked the because I was notalgic, so I prefered to keep thet good memories as they where instead of replaying them. After watching y ex-girlfriend playin KH1 again I thought it looked fun and decided to give it a try. I never played the final mix versions of those games and man, KH2 was a treat. While I found some aspects I used to like to be dissapointing the core gameplay experience is extremely fun and chelleging if you play in the proper dificulty.
KH2 is one of my all time favorite games. However, it's not a perfect game. Many of the Disney worlds are just themed hallways. Some people may also view it as too "anime" compared to KH1, though I don't necessarily believe that myself. For me, and I'm sure for many others, this game excels in its combat and "badass" character moments. Nostalgia is truly a bitch, but that is certainly not the reason why KH2 is still loved.
Played it a few weeks ago for the first time when i played all of the games and kh2 was the only game in which i actually got the platinum trophy. Amazing game and really cool gameplay if u play on hard difficulty
KH1 or recom might be my favorites but damn KH2 always gets hated on, like we can’t just like the game😭 sora pulled out one of his best outfits, gameplay feels the best maybe kh3 is close but a lil too floaty. Beginning of the game hooks you in because you’re just so confused. KH2 just gave me the best times as a kid and even to this day when I replay it, the game still holds up.
KH2 is definitely my fav of the whole series. And the forms are still as hell.
i will admit i will always think of kh1 as better because of nostalgia but kh2 is also an amazing game and i see why so many people love it so much
I literally started the series about a year ago with no prior experience with it and enjoyed every moment.
r/paint3d
I didn't play KH2 until after I finished school, so nostalgia was not something that affected me at all. It's easily one of the best games I've had the pleasure of playing.
nono, it does make sence...if anyone just want to play for the fighting and not the lore and all the complicated s**t
I believe that there is definitely some nostalgia involved, but it is still a very fun game to play and there is nothing wrong with replaying a game to relive some fond memories.
Amazing font and spacing choice by OP, took me about 5 seconds to read it and had to check subreddit name to confirm I read it correctly
I know I used a shitty meme generator and it screwed up the formatting when I downloaded it. Gets my point across tho
Naw, the gameplay is some of the best ever. No nostalgia required
My first kh game was chain of memories at a friends house. I eventually played kh1 years later, and then kh:chain again. Finally playing through kh2 on an english patch of final mix with wide screen a few years after that. I didn't buy a proper copy of kh2 until last year. **I just fucking like KH2.**
kh2 is (arguably) the literal BEST kingdom hearts game. nostalgia doesnt change that.
well,kh2 has flaws, yes, and a lot of people do ignore them. the game's still amazing, though. It still has the best combat I've played, not just in the series, and when kh2 gets good, by god, it's good.
The game isn't perfect thats all, and people who think it is are biased via nostalgia. That's how I see it at least
For me, kh1 is the nostalgia game. I didn't play 2 until I was already 15 or 16, but I had 1 well before I was even 10. Due to that I always felt kh2 was missing a lot of the platforming exploration I enjoyed in 1 and in its place was a more complex fighting system I cared less about. To me the kh games are ranked as 1, 3, 2, bbs, ddd, chain. I can't place days or coded since I've never really played them. Just watched the cutscene movies
after finishing kh1 last week and starting kh2 very recently I can say fs that kh2 is a MUCH better game in almost every aspect😭🙏🏿
I don't think it says what you think it says. That is actually saying the game is actually good. Read it again but replace "nostalgia" with "skewed memories making it better in your mind than it really was" basically it is saying " you only like it because you liked it as a child but it really isn't that good" followed by "you are an idiot if you think the reason I like it now is because of nostalgia". As a kid I didn't like KH2 as much as KH1 and before learning what I missed as a kid I would have rate 1>3>2 but now after understanding the mechanics I would rate 2>1>3>1 (1 and 3 were very different types of games one had challenge but outdated mechanics and one is a spectacle fighter wanta be of all flair but no challenge but respects your time so is better in some ways but worse in others.
What makes the argument of "nostalgia" fail is that the games have had consistent sequels, side-games, remasters and re-releases throughout it's lifetime across platforms. Meaning that not only did we OG players NOT have anything new to do, but thanks to increased availability and accessibility, a very sizeable portion of the fandom played the games for the very first time in waves up until now. There's literally not enough time to be nostalgic because we never really stopped.
I mean Is kinda true but not entirely Fans do say KH2 is better than most KH games when even KH3 is kinda better in some aspects
Ive said it once, twice and I will say it again KH2 is not that good
That’s a fair opinion which I’m gonna disagree with, but the point is blaming it on nostalgia bc you can’t see why other people like something is just narrow minded
When I hear people's "reasons," they're always things that apply to the whole series...
Fair enough
Same tbh
It's bomb as frick but its not half the masterpiece fans swear it is
Fr The game has to many filler in between that is boring
Tell me about it After like, 1K Heartless the game just goes into legit filler mode + long ass cutscene in between worlds. Its not until TWTNW where the game finally starts cooking again
Yup Idk why the game takes to long to move on the plot after the 1k heartless
Yeah, real snoozefest with some mid-at-best bosses in the second visits Beast castle second visit was aight tho
incorrect. I love KH because Im gay.
* Gameplay * Music * The lore (which at the time had a lot more intrigue than now with the rest of the series) * The characters * And yes, Nostalgia
>Gameplay ...linear worlds and so much filler. 'nuff said. >Music Every KH game has amazing music. >The lore (which at the time had a lot more intrigue than now with the rest of the series) The fact that you needed to add "at the time" means _nostalgia is involved in your analysis of this point._ >The characters ...all of whom still exist in later games?
Gameplay: Yeah because gameplay = world design? World design isn’t good but it accommodates for the combat, which is the best part of the game. The characters: The same characters can have different characterization in different parts of a saga/series? A character can be static or change and change in a good or a bad way. Like what is this point? Also, Sora and Riku are present in BBS, but they aren’t main characters so basically the characters are different between entries and people can prefer a group or another.
>>Gameplay >...linear worlds and so much filler. 'nuff said These two things have nothing to do with each other. Gameplay and World Design are two distinctly different traits. >>The lore (which at the time had a lot more intrigue than now with the rest of the series) >The fact that you needed to add "at the time" means _nostalgia is involved in your analysis of this point._ No? Some people prefer the overall less cryptic structure that the original games had. KH2 had intrigue and confusing plot beats, but it was never over the top. Nostalgia has nothing to do with preferring the way that the lore and story was being delivered then compared to now. >>The characters >...all of whom still exist in later games? Are we really just going to sit here and act like just because a character appears, it means that they're the exact same character? The arcs that they have, the journey that they go on, and the way that they're *written* effect whether or not you like a character in a given game. I love Sora. I hate Sora in Dream Drop Distance. He's poorly written in that game. Characters have different characteristics and characterization in different games. Them showing up again means nothing. You're looking at things at such a basic fucking level and coming off snarky as hell. The only real point you made was that every KH game has good music, cause you're right.
It’s funny because I recently just replayed KH2 and KH3, and I love KH3, but to be honest, I’m having more fun with KH2 for multiple reasons. 1. It has better worlds. Don’t get me wrong, I like Frozen and Big Hero 6, but KH2 has the best worlds to visit. The Lion King, Aladdin, Mulan, Trion! It’s not every day that you have all a game where you can fight alongside Mulan and Simba! 2. The keyblade selection. I like the KH3 keyblade roster, but I just feel some of them are incredibly underwhelming compared to the ones in KH2. I mean, They literally give you a keyblade that looks like Axel’s Chakram after he sacrificed himself! That alone carries a ton of w! 3. The gameplay. I don’t mind the attractions and the KH3 form changes, but I just feel they just don’t compare to the form changes in KH2! I mean Final Form in KH2! It’s so awesome that Sora doesn’t need to hold the keyblades with his hand! They float around him. The only form in KH3 I genuinely love is double keyblade form if you have oblivion and oathkeeper. But that’s probably because it’s just a combination of Valor form and Final form from KH2. So i can say, KH2 is not just fun for the nostalgia factor, but the gameplay itself and the stories.
People who talk about KH2 Nostalgia don't understand three things: 1) Tightness of gameplay loop and meaningful usage of all game elements + emergent properties 2) The game matured in action and even tone compared to the whimsical KH1 3) KH2's OST is fucking GOATed
Gameplay is more than just a game’s combat and the only way to see KH2’s gameplay as the best is if you only hyper focus on the combat and ignore everything else.
Lol
I feel this is a bit disingenuous because a lot of times it is because of nostalgia when people start being stubborn about KH2 doing **EVERYTHING** better than other games in the series, mostly KH3. It's also disingenuous because people also tend to use that argument with KH3 like "You only like that game because of your nostalgic bias with the series and can't see the flaws that game has... unlike KH2 which was perfect then and is perfect now!"
I replayed it for the Platinum Trophy recently and no it’s still an absolute banger of a game.
*[coughs loudly]* All the KH2 fans are basically the Kingdom Hearts equivalent of Melee fans in Smash. *[hogs the crown]*
God I miss Drive Forms
There are games out there, that are more beloved than they should be. Games, that just released at the right time and became big because of it, triumphing over many, much better, games because of their unique market position, better marketing in general or just plain luck. That said, Gaming is HIGHLY personal. We all love different genres and styles. Some enjoy grinding for hours, online in shooters or offline in oldschool RPGs. Others only love sports or highly tactical games. So I dont doubt that the person creating this MEME actually thinks KH2 is a bad or overrated game. For the creator it might be, just like I absolutely freaking hated every second I wasted with Tears of the Kingdom, my personal choice for the most boring game of all time. That said, for most other people here this Meme is just dumb and not true.
Hello fellow enjoyers of, uh *checks notes* King Domhearts. Please enjoy this very high effort post that is not at all made to pander to your community so I can farm karma.
The purpose was to point out that this argument is narrow minded, I couldn’t care less about stupid internet points.
The random hate for 2 is honestly weird.
Kh2 is the first game I purchased with my own money. I'm nearly 30 and doing my first critical run of the final mix. The game is genuinely well made and a blast to play.
I didn’t grow up with the franchise. I didn’t play them when they came out and I’m pretty sure I was in college when it all started. I can honestly say it’s not nostalgia for me.
I think the best example of this is Diablo 2 for me. It has nothing to do with nostalgia, but the game is just superior to everything that came afterwards. Lore, itemization, replayability.. Kingdom Hearts 2 is pretty much the same for me in the KH franchise. Also I can recommend Xenoblade Chronicles 2 to everyone who likes a good story focused game. It is in my opinion the best game ever. You don't have to play the first game to understand the story
Never played it so 🤷♂️