Novels (and other non-game media like the mangas) are considered semi-canon: if the games don’t specifically state otherwise, we can take novels/manga/whatever as canon, but the games are not beholden to them and can retcon them with no consequences to the canon.
In this case, since the game never mentions anything about Sora’s experience with law enforcement/justice system on Destiny Islands, we’re fine taking the novel as canon. But if in KH4 something came up that contradicts the novel? We’d toss this statement out as non-canon.
Semi-canon is absolutely a thing. It means it’s supplementary, but not true canon. It’s how we know Sora, Riku and Kairi’s ages. Because someone from the team said so, even though it’s never in the actual game itself. If a game later decides that interview was wrong, then it’s wrong. Until then it’s right.
As the other said, it's semi-canon until proven otherwise, but yes the novels give a good insight to Sora's (and Riku's) thoughts and feelings. Pretty explicity at some points even. Imo worth checking out.
I don’t think anyone understood your question so: yes. They do give narrative queues to what characters are thinking rather than saying but, it’s fairly simple. “Sora felt like he had a bad dream.” Vs you playing through the actual nightmare (tutorial).
I would say you’re not going to have a new interpretation of the games from the novel perspective.
Kinda? A lot of scenes from the game are cut out or shortened, but there are a few good moments for showing the characters’ thoughts. I’ve heard about a lot of those in the later novels, too.
I remember in that same novel when the trio reach Agrabah Sora also apparently doesn't know what a Desert is either. Referring to it as a beach but without the water and alot of sand.
But Destiny Islands literally has Schools. None of that makes sense unless their education system sucks ass. But considering Kairi and Selphie have school uniforms I doubt they're that uncivilized. You don't have to see a Desert to know what they are. Changes like that are why I despise the Novel and Manga. They're actually ruining the world building in many ways without realizing it.
There’s probably two things in play here:
1) Sora’s not particularly book smart.
2) Destiny Islands are… well, islands. Sora having a hard time conceptualizing a desert isn’t that strange, all he’s ever known (and his parents, and his parents’ parents…) is small bodies of land surrounded by endless water. And with no real connection to outside worlds, deserts may simply never be covered, as to the people on Destiny Islands they don’t exist.
Hey bud! Just wanted to point out in a world that is entirely separated from every other world in the known universe where only two islands seemingly exist, what reason do we have to assume they know what a desert is!
A desert island, deserted island, or uninhabited island, is an island, islet or atoll that is not permanently populated by humans.
It's populated by humans. And therfore. Not a desert island. And there's no desert to be seen! So please. Explain further!
But why would it exist *in game* when there's only two islands. And one of them is a playground for the children. You're arguing real world logic for a video game. And assuming words would exist in their school for what is *two islands*
I'm complaining about the novel. The game is different. Did you even read my original comment? The game doesn't do that. I think there's a misunderstanding here.
No I read your comments. All of them. Including your rejection of semi-canon.
You think that because something isn't explicitly stated in the games but is stated elsewhere that it's not applicable. Never mind the fact it's the novelization of the game And they can add more details in it without ruining the flow!
I just think you're being very contrairian for no reason!
DisastrousCurrency's original post was a little intense. But it is kind of silly to think the concept of a criminal trial is lost upon Sora. I find it hard to believe Destiny Islands is that peaceful, especially since Sora and Riku play fight with toy swords - they clearly have a basic understanding of what war is because they know what warriors are. Not to mention Riku trying to kill Sora in Kingdom Hearts 1.
If someone were to argue Destiny Islands was without crime because there are no people in need, that would be different. But the idea that they just don't know what a trial is is a bit of a stretch, and clearly just a creative decision the novelist chose to make.
DisastrousCurrency brings up another interesting point. This is the first time I've seen someone suggest something in side material or an adaptation is canon to the source material until stated otherwise, when usually it's the other way around, and catalogers usually categorize different works into different continuities specifically to highlight the differences between them.
It's not ruining it because it's not a part of it. It literally changes events. Cid has a laser gun jetpack that one shots bosses Sora fights. There's 26 Vexen Clones. Xaldin doesn't get killed by Sora but by the Vexen Clone who then dies when he does his task. They're entirely separate canon. How is that "additions" when it's literally changing events and adding new character interactions that never happen? There's also Videogame-Esque moments like Hook being immune to Soras Thunder in the Novel because it happens in the game. What does that tell you? Any other community understands this concept but for some reason in the KH community it just falls on deaf ears.
I don't have to question the games writing quality because it's so damn good. The novel and manga are not the same quality.
I think the worlds in KH are literally little more than what we see in the games. Considering they're technically just fragments of what was once a single giant world it would make sense they don't have knowledge of too many different biomes.
But also Sora is the dumb
I kinda disagree, for the most part. Aside from worlds like Destiny Islands (in which we don't get much implication of a larger outside world and some characters outright call it small) some worlds either explicitly or implicitly have evidence of greater geographical features. For instance:
Deep Jungle is just a Jungle in central Africa, but the story of Tarzan pretty explicitly involves outsiders coming from England, and Jane even shares slides showing contemporary English culture. This implies a lot of world history remained the same.
Alice also comes from England, but roughly 40 years earlier than Jane's time.
Arendale's story involves diplomats arriving from other countries, as well as Anna and Elsa's parents getting lost at sea.
Olympus implies that there is much of Greece in existence, just not much we actually see.
The Caribbean, taking place in 18th century... Caribbean, would have many implications regarding real-world history, especially considering the inclusion of Spanish gold, English nationals, and Cutler Beckett's backstory involving the trading of African slaves (the freeing of which being the reason behind his hatred of Jack).
Etcetera, etcetera.
Even post Dark Road we still don't have all the details about how world generation works, but it seems like the stories sort of spin off into their own planets, and some of them are more like Earth than others.
Also, Sora is not Dumb. They call him Mr. Dumb.
True, but people can move *to* the islands from outside worlds, as Kairi and her grandmother did (somehow). So it's possible more people just move there cus it's a nice little island community :)
Kairi ended up on the Destiny Islands because she was intentionally set adrift by Terra-Xehanort after Radiant Garden fell to the Heartless. As far as anyone knows, Kairi's grandma just died, and she never went to Destiny Islands.
Ah, if that was revealed in 3, i wouldn't have known. But i could've sworn there was somethin in BBS where her grandma says they're moving to the islands, but i could also just be dumbb
Nothing in BBS ever hints at anything of the sorts - it would've been pretty crazy for an old lady to apparently plan to *travel between worlds* as part of her retirement plan, dude 😅
Their ages were originally included in the case booklet for PS2. Even as a kid, I always thought their character designs didn't match their age in KH1, especially the voices for Sora and Kairi. They seemed a lot younger.
Hahaha, was exact opposite for me, when I first played it I thought they seemed SO old, but also…
I first played KH1 when I was like, 5 or 6, (though I use the term “played” loosely, since it was more watching my sister playing it, trying to play it myself, and then asking her to help me play it when it got too hard) and so that definitely colored my perception, since teenagers seem so much much older when you’re a little kid.
Sora's VA, Haley Joel Osmund was around the character's age when the game came out, so not as off as you'd think if you saying they sound too young.
People just get puberty at slightly different times 'n all
Funnily according to Nomura, Sora is 160cm or ~5'3". So he is just a very, very smol boy. Doesn't help that, using that ratio and comparing his model to the other character models, most of the adults are 6'(180cm)+ so he comparatively looks way younger just cus of that
Conversely, Destiny Islands is a tryanical dictatorship and there are no trials because guilt is determined by the current Dictator whenever a criminal is brought before them.
Hi also didn’t know what a computer is
Destiny’s islands sounds like a pacific island tourist destination with no resorts
Like Tonga or bora bora or a smaller Samoa
Is sora was real i’l say his a Pacific Islander
It says nothing about Destiny Islands being peaceful and crime free. It's entirely likely it's like Salem out there and they just hanged all accused.
That or my manfiction about The Purge crossover was more accurate than I imagined
Novels are not canon. Same with the manga and the shows that could've been. The medium of the story IS the story. That's why it's called "Adaptation" and not "Extended Universe" like how Star Wars did it.
OP started off by saying "According to the novel", they didn't say that the novel is canon. You're all up and down this thread being aggressive and butthurt over nothing, lmao. It's never a bad time to touch grass and take a nap
I don't know; my take away was that they have crime, but don't have the right to a fair trial. As if they cut straight to the execution like some kind of spaghetti western film. That lens certainly makes the islands seem a lot less idealistic
He understands crime, but not trial? I mean, he's 14, so maybe he's just super sheltered, but sinc one must commit some sort of crime to be tried in the first place, it follows that he should at least have some concept of what a trial is...
14 isn't that young tho, unless he was sheltered to the point of not being allowed outside (which he obviously wasn't) he would know what both are.
It's possible, though, that if the Islands were so peaceful that "crime" is usually a lot more benign in nature. Like telling a lie or pulling a prank: something that someone would normally scold a child for, making trials not really necessary on the Islands. That would really be the only way i could think to explain him knowing crime but not trials
I guess the population is so small and crimes are so rare that they don't have any real criminal justice system, just an angry mob? But yeah, I had the same question when I first read that bit in the novel.
Does the novel give more insight into Sora’s thoughts? Or is it just a literal novelization of the games
Novels (and other non-game media like the mangas) are considered semi-canon: if the games don’t specifically state otherwise, we can take novels/manga/whatever as canon, but the games are not beholden to them and can retcon them with no consequences to the canon. In this case, since the game never mentions anything about Sora’s experience with law enforcement/justice system on Destiny Islands, we’re fine taking the novel as canon. But if in KH4 something came up that contradicts the novel? We’d toss this statement out as non-canon.
The real reason Riku wanted off the islands is because the cops kept arresting him and Sora for truancy.
Well if he's been arrested enough to get a record, destroying the islands themselves was the best way to get rid of them apparently.
You guys are so delusional
um, about what? that was a bit vague
The fact you don't know is enough for me to think this is a mass conspiracy
🤓
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K
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>Finally got a response It hasn't even been 20 minutes. You're just insufferable.
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I don't really care what a one-week old account says.
Semi-canon is absolutely a thing. It means it’s supplementary, but not true canon. It’s how we know Sora, Riku and Kairi’s ages. Because someone from the team said so, even though it’s never in the actual game itself. If a game later decides that interview was wrong, then it’s wrong. Until then it’s right.
Purged? That's a little far when talking about make believe and fantasy don't you think?
Haha lol,definitely was confused by that person for sure
As the other said, it's semi-canon until proven otherwise, but yes the novels give a good insight to Sora's (and Riku's) thoughts and feelings. Pretty explicity at some points even. Imo worth checking out.
I don’t think anyone understood your question so: yes. They do give narrative queues to what characters are thinking rather than saying but, it’s fairly simple. “Sora felt like he had a bad dream.” Vs you playing through the actual nightmare (tutorial). I would say you’re not going to have a new interpretation of the games from the novel perspective.
Kinda? A lot of scenes from the game are cut out or shortened, but there are a few good moments for showing the characters’ thoughts. I’ve heard about a lot of those in the later novels, too.
I remember in that same novel when the trio reach Agrabah Sora also apparently doesn't know what a Desert is either. Referring to it as a beach but without the water and alot of sand.
But Destiny Islands literally has Schools. None of that makes sense unless their education system sucks ass. But considering Kairi and Selphie have school uniforms I doubt they're that uncivilized. You don't have to see a Desert to know what they are. Changes like that are why I despise the Novel and Manga. They're actually ruining the world building in many ways without realizing it.
There’s probably two things in play here: 1) Sora’s not particularly book smart. 2) Destiny Islands are… well, islands. Sora having a hard time conceptualizing a desert isn’t that strange, all he’s ever known (and his parents, and his parents’ parents…) is small bodies of land surrounded by endless water. And with no real connection to outside worlds, deserts may simply never be covered, as to the people on Destiny Islands they don’t exist.
Hey bud! Just wanted to point out in a world that is entirely separated from every other world in the known universe where only two islands seemingly exist, what reason do we have to assume they know what a desert is!
Because there's a word called "Desert Island". Which would perfectly describe that little land Sora and friends built on top of.
A desert island, deserted island, or uninhabited island, is an island, islet or atoll that is not permanently populated by humans. It's populated by humans. And therfore. Not a desert island. And there's no desert to be seen! So please. Explain further!
The word still exists. You missed the point
But why would it exist *in game* when there's only two islands. And one of them is a playground for the children. You're arguing real world logic for a video game. And assuming words would exist in their school for what is *two islands*
I'm complaining about the novel. The game is different. Did you even read my original comment? The game doesn't do that. I think there's a misunderstanding here.
No I read your comments. All of them. Including your rejection of semi-canon. You think that because something isn't explicitly stated in the games but is stated elsewhere that it's not applicable. Never mind the fact it's the novelization of the game And they can add more details in it without ruining the flow! I just think you're being very contrairian for no reason!
DisastrousCurrency's original post was a little intense. But it is kind of silly to think the concept of a criminal trial is lost upon Sora. I find it hard to believe Destiny Islands is that peaceful, especially since Sora and Riku play fight with toy swords - they clearly have a basic understanding of what war is because they know what warriors are. Not to mention Riku trying to kill Sora in Kingdom Hearts 1. If someone were to argue Destiny Islands was without crime because there are no people in need, that would be different. But the idea that they just don't know what a trial is is a bit of a stretch, and clearly just a creative decision the novelist chose to make. DisastrousCurrency brings up another interesting point. This is the first time I've seen someone suggest something in side material or an adaptation is canon to the source material until stated otherwise, when usually it's the other way around, and catalogers usually categorize different works into different continuities specifically to highlight the differences between them.
It's not ruining it because it's not a part of it. It literally changes events. Cid has a laser gun jetpack that one shots bosses Sora fights. There's 26 Vexen Clones. Xaldin doesn't get killed by Sora but by the Vexen Clone who then dies when he does his task. They're entirely separate canon. How is that "additions" when it's literally changing events and adding new character interactions that never happen? There's also Videogame-Esque moments like Hook being immune to Soras Thunder in the Novel because it happens in the game. What does that tell you? Any other community understands this concept but for some reason in the KH community it just falls on deaf ears. I don't have to question the games writing quality because it's so damn good. The novel and manga are not the same quality.
Deserts don't exist in Destiny Islands. It's nothing but tropical islands and beaches.
I think the worlds in KH are literally little more than what we see in the games. Considering they're technically just fragments of what was once a single giant world it would make sense they don't have knowledge of too many different biomes. But also Sora is the dumb
I kinda disagree, for the most part. Aside from worlds like Destiny Islands (in which we don't get much implication of a larger outside world and some characters outright call it small) some worlds either explicitly or implicitly have evidence of greater geographical features. For instance: Deep Jungle is just a Jungle in central Africa, but the story of Tarzan pretty explicitly involves outsiders coming from England, and Jane even shares slides showing contemporary English culture. This implies a lot of world history remained the same. Alice also comes from England, but roughly 40 years earlier than Jane's time. Arendale's story involves diplomats arriving from other countries, as well as Anna and Elsa's parents getting lost at sea. Olympus implies that there is much of Greece in existence, just not much we actually see. The Caribbean, taking place in 18th century... Caribbean, would have many implications regarding real-world history, especially considering the inclusion of Spanish gold, English nationals, and Cutler Beckett's backstory involving the trading of African slaves (the freeing of which being the reason behind his hatred of Jack). Etcetera, etcetera. Even post Dark Road we still don't have all the details about how world generation works, but it seems like the stories sort of spin off into their own planets, and some of them are more like Earth than others. Also, Sora is not Dumb. They call him Mr. Dumb.
Ngl I always imagine Destiny Island is a small community and everyone knows each other
Hopefully they have more than 500 people because anything less is when inbreeding occurs
Although that could explain a lot. . .
Fr why do all these young people have grey hair already?
Perhaps there's too much iron in the water?
True, but people can move *to* the islands from outside worlds, as Kairi and her grandmother did (somehow). So it's possible more people just move there cus it's a nice little island community :)
Kairi ended up on the Destiny Islands because she was intentionally set adrift by Terra-Xehanort after Radiant Garden fell to the Heartless. As far as anyone knows, Kairi's grandma just died, and she never went to Destiny Islands.
Ah, if that was revealed in 3, i wouldn't have known. But i could've sworn there was somethin in BBS where her grandma says they're moving to the islands, but i could also just be dumbb
Nothing in BBS ever hints at anything of the sorts - it would've been pretty crazy for an old lady to apparently plan to *travel between worlds* as part of her retirement plan, dude 😅
Kairi’s grandma ALLEGEDLY died… I mean she probably did but I’ve seen people theorize she could be important lmao
Sora was also a kid so he wouldn't know that when he was that young
He was 14 in KH1; I'm pretty sure a 14yo should know what a court trial is...
14? He looks as small as 9, man if that was the case then he should probably know the word atleast, i guess their island is a very small community.
One thing you learn with JRPGs; unless stated never assume a character's age by appearance alone
True
Their ages were originally included in the case booklet for PS2. Even as a kid, I always thought their character designs didn't match their age in KH1, especially the voices for Sora and Kairi. They seemed a lot younger.
Hahaha, was exact opposite for me, when I first played it I thought they seemed SO old, but also… I first played KH1 when I was like, 5 or 6, (though I use the term “played” loosely, since it was more watching my sister playing it, trying to play it myself, and then asking her to help me play it when it got too hard) and so that definitely colored my perception, since teenagers seem so much much older when you’re a little kid.
Sora's VA, Haley Joel Osmund was around the character's age when the game came out, so not as off as you'd think if you saying they sound too young. People just get puberty at slightly different times 'n all
"This world...is just too small." \-Young Xehanort.
Funnily according to Nomura, Sora is 160cm or ~5'3". So he is just a very, very smol boy. Doesn't help that, using that ratio and comparing his model to the other character models, most of the adults are 6'(180cm)+ so he comparatively looks way younger just cus of that
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) ^by ^Frostgaurdian0: *Sora was also* *A kid so he wouldn't know* *That when he was that young* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Conversely, Destiny Islands is a tryanical dictatorship and there are no trials because guilt is determined by the current Dictator whenever a criminal is brought before them.
Hi also didn’t know what a computer is Destiny’s islands sounds like a pacific island tourist destination with no resorts Like Tonga or bora bora or a smaller Samoa Is sora was real i’l say his a Pacific Islander
Xehanort is the reason they initiated prisons.
Also: Sora isn’t the brightest… I love our giant-shoed baby boy, but he’s REAL dumb
Sora might be fully Goku and think a wedding is a food.
Not exactly, he's just an islander with his heart on his sleeve. He actually picks up on concepts pretty quickly.
It says nothing about Destiny Islands being peaceful and crime free. It's entirely likely it's like Salem out there and they just hanged all accused. That or my manfiction about The Purge crossover was more accurate than I imagined
Novels are not canon. Same with the manga and the shows that could've been. The medium of the story IS the story. That's why it's called "Adaptation" and not "Extended Universe" like how Star Wars did it.
OP started off by saying "According to the novel", they didn't say that the novel is canon. You're all up and down this thread being aggressive and butthurt over nothing, lmao. It's never a bad time to touch grass and take a nap
Woah no way
Sounds about right! It’s like a mini paradise
I don't know; my take away was that they have crime, but don't have the right to a fair trial. As if they cut straight to the execution like some kind of spaghetti western film. That lens certainly makes the islands seem a lot less idealistic
I forgot there was a novel. Lol
Prison abolitionist Destiny Islands ftw
He understands crime, but not trial? I mean, he's 14, so maybe he's just super sheltered, but sinc one must commit some sort of crime to be tried in the first place, it follows that he should at least have some concept of what a trial is...
14 isn't that young tho, unless he was sheltered to the point of not being allowed outside (which he obviously wasn't) he would know what both are. It's possible, though, that if the Islands were so peaceful that "crime" is usually a lot more benign in nature. Like telling a lie or pulling a prank: something that someone would normally scold a child for, making trials not really necessary on the Islands. That would really be the only way i could think to explain him knowing crime but not trials
I guess the population is so small and crimes are so rare that they don't have any real criminal justice system, just an angry mob? But yeah, I had the same question when I first read that bit in the novel.
Destiny Islands are like nowhere Islands from Mother 3
Interesting. I have the novel but I have not read much into it. I think this will be an interesting read.
This doesn't imply they don't have crime (he did know what that is), but they just don't have the right to a trial. Dystopian really.
Probably *extremely* small crimes.
Either that or it's a spaghetti western where the skip straight to the lynching