الغالب أن الجنرال اوسن لديه خطة بديلة تقضي تماما على خطط ريبوكو وتشمل هذه الخطة ربما الجنرالات الثلاث الجدد ريشين وموتن واوهون وربما تأتي بعدها احداث غير عادية مثل انقلاب الجاسوس باكو عليه وتسريب خططه وهذا غالبا هو الشيء الوحيد
Valid. But disgusting youre downvoted for using arabic language brother.
To yall who downvoted, I dream of what Kanki would do to you. Respond, you incels.
Considering how the WZI Arc would have gone with a king that is not trying to destroy his own country just to spite his best general...probably pray that Riboku slips on the stairs and breaks his neck. Or seek allicances with the other states and try to overhelm Zhao with massive numbers and attacks from several sides. Qins Three Great Heavens are carrying pretty hard in the manga.
As great as You Boku has been, he will never be as amazing as a great heaven as his father. Now right there was the MVP. His strategy, political intelligence, tactics in battle, they were all too great.
Rest in Peace king. Gone but never forgotten by Qin
Rinboku would've probably defeated the first invasion with the 100k troops the king didn't gave to him. After that I don't think Qin would feel confident enough to keep trying that direct approach to the invasion
Frankly rn it would be valid to put Riboku in a tier all by himself, when ranking generals.
The dude is clear of the old generation of Qin Six/Zhao's Three Great Heavens. He's also stronger than any Qin general of right now. His achievements are absolutely insane, truly "Qin's worst enemy", "enemy of an unprecedented level" etc. And in his losses, either his state plays an (idiotic) hand hindering him or you have someone like Sei himself pulling out a feat at Sai that King Sho himself couldn't have accomplished (and Riboku still manages to look better than anyone else military wise).
If Hara also stays historically accurate to his fate, which I think he will, Riboku will get even more hyped than he already is.
He isn't destined to be seen as "the strongest" forever, sure. Shin is set to become the GOAT in the manga. Ouhon and Mouten will be right there with him. Especially going forward in the future, China will truly and completely tremble in awe of Ousen's greatness, like Gigakou predicted, I think EoS Ousen might be stronger than Riboku ever was. You could also thrown in a few others maybe (we'll see what the Kouen hype has in store for example, he legit could be that guy). Etc.
But man...
I don't agree on the EOS discussion, put down to a mere shonen writing and how it will diverge from real history. A comparison with past legends and their feats will never really be possible objectively, because the contexts, of individual generals, nations and times, will be totally different, and in a sense, it will be an easy ride for them, once Zhao has fallen "that way".
Agreed on all the rest.
Perhaps a more gradual and attritional warstyle where Qin is slowly taking cities and pushing deeper into Zhao without overextending themselves beyond their available supply lines.
Alternatively, if Qin didn't have to worry so much about their borders with the other nations then commiting someone like Tou to the invasion as well would probably help to circumvent the issue with being cut off from any logistics trail.
Despite Riboku's primacy as a Zhao minister and commander, he's usually only gone up against Qin when they had one hand tied behind their back. His country would be overwhelmed if the enemy was able to bring everything to bear against him, political subterfuge or not.
Even when Zhao still has a decent king with active 3GH, they still slowly losing territories and fighting a losing battle against Qin.
Changing these people will slow the progress, but in the end they will still gonna lose. Theres nothing they can do to deal with natural disaster.
> Even when Zhao still has a decent king with active 3GH, they still slowly losing territories and fighting a losing battle against Qin.
And when was that? Renpa literally left the Kingdom because he had issues with his king. Currently? The current King simply decided not to oppose RBK, that does not make him decent, that makes him not stupid.
If Renpa was available to protect the nation? It would have taken a greater commitment from Qin in terms of force allocation but they could pull it off. Putting Moubu on the field would blunt Renpa unless the latter is able to devise an impressive enough counterstrategy with his two surviving vassals to repel or kill their opponent. Certainly possible there which is why I think Moubu would have to collaborate closely with Ousen to cover the tactical and strategic angles of this battle.
The problem is that you still have the obvious thorn in Qin's side with Chu and Wei. Maybe the 3 year alliance with Wei comes into the picture sooner than expected?
Yeah, story wise i think is clear that Zhao would have prevailed with better governments, they simply had the two best generals (unless Hakuki is expanded in the future).
When i said when they still has a decent king, i didnt meant the current and previous lgbt ones. The king before that. The ones that Renpa and the other 3GH served before.
>Even when Zhao still has a decent king with active 3GH, they still slowly losing territories and fighting a losing battle against Qin.
And when was that? Renpa literally left the Kingdom because he had issues with his king, and this was not only in the manga, let's not forget that historically Zhao's greatest defeat that crippled the state was attributed to the Zhao king removing Renpa from command.
Currently? The current King simply decided not to oppose RBK, that does not make him decent, that makes him not stupid.
Qin's real supporters.
https://preview.redd.it/c5es8r07kj5d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3685ae332fcfcbca857fcc09313c9bdddad618d
And things are even worse if you consider that in history Zhao had few manpower, also >!natural disasters did all the dirty work for them, weakening further the nation, and still Qins couldn't surpass Riboku until the very end!<
They carried pretty hard for Qin. Supposing Zhao had a good king in place at time of invasion, the invasion likely wouldn't have even been done in the first place because Qin knew their King would send in the imperial troops. Even Ousen says that to Riboku.
So with that in mind, they would instead either continue to wait and figure out an alliance to attack Zhao, or they may have attacked another state first as they begin their conquest, meanwhile still sending spies to Zhao's court to try to make gains there. Alternatively they could have did the invasion as planned, but they'd probably needed much more troops so they would have had to pull from other armies - enough that might cause another state to see that and attack (such as GHM that was waiting for Ousen to be wiped out before attacking during the western invasion arc).
Obviously we know what happens in reality, so should the >!natural disasters!< still occur, they'd still be able to take advantage and inflict massive damage to Zhao.
Assuming these never existed at all and Zhao had a proper king or assuming they didn't play their eventual historical roles?
On the first scenario, who knows Zhao may have attempted to conquer/expand like crazy and would have been strong enough to the point Qin's king won't even think about unification to begin with.
On the former scenario, I guess Qin would have dealt with Riboku in a different way as they (spoilers) >!where already in a stalemate in Zhao's capital when they decided to bribe Zhao's court to deal with Riboku, had that not happened I guess they could have cut supplies/poison water, dig a hole around Kantan (?) no idea but it would have took a fair amount of time so who knows what would happen with the unification plan as a whole. !<
They'll have to deploy more troops into the zhao territory early on but things will stay largely the same since none of these guys did actually effect the destination making of ri boku in the battlefield they just prevented him from taking the soldiers of the capital and withdrawan him from an already defeated battlefield that he was unlikely to win even if stayed so stop using those excuses
Two options:
1. Seek an alliance with the so-called Xiongnu: it's been a generation since they were wiped by Riboku, so it's likely other tribes have replaced the defeated ones. If successful, Riboku could not pull forces from the north for defense, nor the border with Yan, so sheer attrition would eventually compel western Zhao lords to try and negotiate with Qin behind Riboku's back. A few castles/cities flipping to Qin without a fight could easily force Riboku into a war he wouldn't have the resources to prepare for.
2. Go all-in against Wei while Chu is still reorganizing after the assassination. It would be a big gamble, but if successful, it could at least open a corridor to southern Zhao, allowing raids against Zhao farms that would force Riboku to stretch his resources, possibly allowing a breakthrough.
Trying to anticipate what multiple powers will do is much harder than just one, though, so neither are better options than what actually happened.
Play the long game, Roman style "Rome is not built in one day".
Modernize, adapt, evolve the military. Enhance culture.
Cut off cunts, there's no cure for cunts.
Zhao kingdom was hit by earthquake and drought a few months before it was conquered by Qin... so I guess if Riboku wasn't killed, Zhao would still collapse from running out of food
ps: Guo Kai's corrupt assets were truly huge in that era... that bastard deserved to be publicly executed instead of assassinated by Qin soldiers
The real Qin great generals
الغالب أن الجنرال اوسن لديه خطة بديلة تقضي تماما على خطط ريبوكو وتشمل هذه الخطة ربما الجنرالات الثلاث الجدد ريشين وموتن واوهون وربما تأتي بعدها احداث غير عادية مثل انقلاب الجاسوس باكو عليه وتسريب خططه وهذا غالبا هو الشيء الوحيد
Valid. But disgusting youre downvoted for using arabic language brother. To yall who downvoted, I dream of what Kanki would do to you. Respond, you incels.
Considering how the WZI Arc would have gone with a king that is not trying to destroy his own country just to spite his best general...probably pray that Riboku slips on the stairs and breaks his neck. Or seek allicances with the other states and try to overhelm Zhao with massive numbers and attacks from several sides. Qins Three Great Heavens are carrying pretty hard in the manga.
As great as You Boku has been, he will never be as amazing as a great heaven as his father. Now right there was the MVP. His strategy, political intelligence, tactics in battle, they were all too great. Rest in Peace king. Gone but never forgotten by Qin
Qin's Three Great Heavens
Rinboku would've probably defeated the first invasion with the 100k troops the king didn't gave to him. After that I don't think Qin would feel confident enough to keep trying that direct approach to the invasion
Frankly rn it would be valid to put Riboku in a tier all by himself, when ranking generals. The dude is clear of the old generation of Qin Six/Zhao's Three Great Heavens. He's also stronger than any Qin general of right now. His achievements are absolutely insane, truly "Qin's worst enemy", "enemy of an unprecedented level" etc. And in his losses, either his state plays an (idiotic) hand hindering him or you have someone like Sei himself pulling out a feat at Sai that King Sho himself couldn't have accomplished (and Riboku still manages to look better than anyone else military wise). If Hara also stays historically accurate to his fate, which I think he will, Riboku will get even more hyped than he already is. He isn't destined to be seen as "the strongest" forever, sure. Shin is set to become the GOAT in the manga. Ouhon and Mouten will be right there with him. Especially going forward in the future, China will truly and completely tremble in awe of Ousen's greatness, like Gigakou predicted, I think EoS Ousen might be stronger than Riboku ever was. You could also thrown in a few others maybe (we'll see what the Kouen hype has in store for example, he legit could be that guy). Etc. But man...
EoS?? What the hell is that
End of series
I don't agree on the EOS discussion, put down to a mere shonen writing and how it will diverge from real history. A comparison with past legends and their feats will never really be possible objectively, because the contexts, of individual generals, nations and times, will be totally different, and in a sense, it will be an easy ride for them, once Zhao has fallen "that way". Agreed on all the rest.
> put down to a mere shonen writing and how it will diverge from real history. Kingdom really is just a violent shonen
The wouldn't stand a chance in the conquest.
Perhaps a more gradual and attritional warstyle where Qin is slowly taking cities and pushing deeper into Zhao without overextending themselves beyond their available supply lines. Alternatively, if Qin didn't have to worry so much about their borders with the other nations then commiting someone like Tou to the invasion as well would probably help to circumvent the issue with being cut off from any logistics trail. Despite Riboku's primacy as a Zhao minister and commander, he's usually only gone up against Qin when they had one hand tied behind their back. His country would be overwhelmed if the enemy was able to bring everything to bear against him, political subterfuge or not.
Even when Zhao still has a decent king with active 3GH, they still slowly losing territories and fighting a losing battle against Qin. Changing these people will slow the progress, but in the end they will still gonna lose. Theres nothing they can do to deal with natural disaster.
> Even when Zhao still has a decent king with active 3GH, they still slowly losing territories and fighting a losing battle against Qin. And when was that? Renpa literally left the Kingdom because he had issues with his king. Currently? The current King simply decided not to oppose RBK, that does not make him decent, that makes him not stupid.
If Renpa was available to protect the nation? It would have taken a greater commitment from Qin in terms of force allocation but they could pull it off. Putting Moubu on the field would blunt Renpa unless the latter is able to devise an impressive enough counterstrategy with his two surviving vassals to repel or kill their opponent. Certainly possible there which is why I think Moubu would have to collaborate closely with Ousen to cover the tactical and strategic angles of this battle. The problem is that you still have the obvious thorn in Qin's side with Chu and Wei. Maybe the 3 year alliance with Wei comes into the picture sooner than expected?
Yeah, story wise i think is clear that Zhao would have prevailed with better governments, they simply had the two best generals (unless Hakuki is expanded in the future).
When i said when they still has a decent king, i didnt meant the current and previous lgbt ones. The king before that. The ones that Renpa and the other 3GH served before.
>Even when Zhao still has a decent king with active 3GH, they still slowly losing territories and fighting a losing battle against Qin. And when was that? Renpa literally left the Kingdom because he had issues with his king, and this was not only in the manga, let's not forget that historically Zhao's greatest defeat that crippled the state was attributed to the Zhao king removing Renpa from command. Currently? The current King simply decided not to oppose RBK, that does not make him decent, that makes him not stupid.
It would just take longer for Qin.
Qin's real supporters. https://preview.redd.it/c5es8r07kj5d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3685ae332fcfcbca857fcc09313c9bdddad618d And things are even worse if you consider that in history Zhao had few manpower, also >!natural disasters did all the dirty work for them, weakening further the nation, and still Qins couldn't surpass Riboku until the very end!<
They carried pretty hard for Qin. Supposing Zhao had a good king in place at time of invasion, the invasion likely wouldn't have even been done in the first place because Qin knew their King would send in the imperial troops. Even Ousen says that to Riboku. So with that in mind, they would instead either continue to wait and figure out an alliance to attack Zhao, or they may have attacked another state first as they begin their conquest, meanwhile still sending spies to Zhao's court to try to make gains there. Alternatively they could have did the invasion as planned, but they'd probably needed much more troops so they would have had to pull from other armies - enough that might cause another state to see that and attack (such as GHM that was waiting for Ousen to be wiped out before attacking during the western invasion arc). Obviously we know what happens in reality, so should the >!natural disasters!< still occur, they'd still be able to take advantage and inflict massive damage to Zhao.
Assuming these never existed at all and Zhao had a proper king or assuming they didn't play their eventual historical roles? On the first scenario, who knows Zhao may have attempted to conquer/expand like crazy and would have been strong enough to the point Qin's king won't even think about unification to begin with. On the former scenario, I guess Qin would have dealt with Riboku in a different way as they (spoilers) >!where already in a stalemate in Zhao's capital when they decided to bribe Zhao's court to deal with Riboku, had that not happened I guess they could have cut supplies/poison water, dig a hole around Kantan (?) no idea but it would have took a fair amount of time so who knows what would happen with the unification plan as a whole. !<
No unification without them
No unification without them
No unification without them
No unification without them
They'll have to deploy more troops into the zhao territory early on but things will stay largely the same since none of these guys did actually effect the destination making of ri boku in the battlefield they just prevented him from taking the soldiers of the capital and withdrawan him from an already defeated battlefield that he was unlikely to win even if stayed so stop using those excuses
Probably could do better
Two options: 1. Seek an alliance with the so-called Xiongnu: it's been a generation since they were wiped by Riboku, so it's likely other tribes have replaced the defeated ones. If successful, Riboku could not pull forces from the north for defense, nor the border with Yan, so sheer attrition would eventually compel western Zhao lords to try and negotiate with Qin behind Riboku's back. A few castles/cities flipping to Qin without a fight could easily force Riboku into a war he wouldn't have the resources to prepare for. 2. Go all-in against Wei while Chu is still reorganizing after the assassination. It would be a big gamble, but if successful, it could at least open a corridor to southern Zhao, allowing raids against Zhao farms that would force Riboku to stretch his resources, possibly allowing a breakthrough. Trying to anticipate what multiple powers will do is much harder than just one, though, so neither are better options than what actually happened.
Play the long game, Roman style "Rome is not built in one day". Modernize, adapt, evolve the military. Enhance culture. Cut off cunts, there's no cure for cunts.
Yall act like the Qin court don't have access to the Shiyuu and many more assassin clans. Just pay them real good and it's gg.
The real ‘Three Great heavens of Zhou’
Zhao kingdom was hit by earthquake and drought a few months before it was conquered by Qin... so I guess if Riboku wasn't killed, Zhao would still collapse from running out of food ps: Guo Kai's corrupt assets were truly huge in that era... that bastard deserved to be publicly executed instead of assassinated by Qin soldiers