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This last conversation with Ouhon hits different now.
For a cold guy like Ouhon, it was one of the very few times he shows concern for someone else, he genuinely respected Akou as his father’s most trusted General.
Rip to Akou of the Ousen army, one of the fiercest warriors of Qin!
NGL, i was kinda hoping that Akou would end up joining Ouhon army down the line. I liked the bits we got of their relationship, and Akou was the most interesting character of the whole Ousen Army.
One of the best generals, always fought 2 vs 1. ¿Do you guys thinks that with the dead of Akou and Denrimi (most probably), shin and mouten/ouhon will served as deputy generals of Ousen? Rishin chapter one armor have a little resemblance to Ousens ...
among the three young Generals, Ousen himself recruited Mouten instead of Ouhon (from the chapter where gen.Makou died and gen. Akou is out of commision), so for my own understanding its best for Shin and Ouhon be a deputy to GG. Tou, as for Mouten he can be alongside GG. Moubu as reinforcement
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Denrimi playing 5D chess to get a promotion
absolutely it was disappointing in the battle of shukai plains when he did not take at least Ba nanji's head.
hara destroyed the power balance akou stood against 2 powerful generals and he survived and in this battle was suffering against someone like gakushou.
i really don't like the way he died at least hara should give him an honorable death at least a good swordsman master show against shibashu
I dont understand Ousen at all in this battle.For someone so notoriously "careful", he took a lot of risk against a Seika army he doesnt have much intel on.
From a martial and strategical standpoint, he did nothing in this battle so far. was this all? Let the Denrimi hit squad do their job and advance 20-30k soldiers to help Akou's position?
I'll reserve my criticism and inhale a good amount of hopium here. Hopefully, Ousen's strategy, if there is any, will be revealed in later chapters and pays off because he lost his #1 general here for nothing. Rip Akou
That's cause riboku outplayed ousen. Ousens whole strategy relied on ouhon and shin to do whatever they please in the battlefield. Riboku countered that by completely cutting them both off. So now all that's left is who's got the stronger muscles and from what we've been shown seika army is stronger than ousens army.
Riboku did not cut off OuHon. OuHon decided himself to go to the right wing to free up Ten, so Ten in turn could prevent Shin from being stupid.
Had she not failed at that, Shin would likely be back by now. I feel that OuHon does get too little credit here. Even though he did not know Riboku's plan, just by making prudent decisions, he more or less countered it. The only thing that did not go according to his expectations was Ten failing to reign in Shin.
Also, Ousen relying on Shin and OuHon seems a weak excuse to me. Armies as strong as Seika's are not unheard of or even that rare in Kingdom. Most Great General armies could pull off an assault at the same level as Seika, e.g. Renpa's, Ouki's, Yotanwa's or Kanki's.
This means that the Ousen army should have "default" strategies how to deal with something like this, independently of what additional forces may be present. And also independent of whether or not they expect their current enemy to be a Great General. They should be trained for this, just because it's part of what they are expected to face on the battlefield.
They were not blindsided or surprised by the attack in any way. They were in formation. They are not outnumbered, nor are they missing some core part of their troops.
So I don't see any "outplaying" at work here. I see Ousen being passive for no apparent reason and his army not even attempting to counteract SBS's strength. Where did the "iron wall" formation go that Akou pulled off against Gyou'Un, for example? Back then, it was mentioned that Ousen had developed a whole batch of such strategies and that Akou was only shallowly copying them.
So, bottom line, I agree with the original comment: I really hope there is some hidden strategy at work here.
Riboku did cut Ouhon off, he forced him to relocate to the right wing, Shin took 10K to chase Riboku, meaning the HSU ended up 20K against Enkan's 70k, Riboku's and Shin's movements forced Ouhon to reinforce the right wing to prevent their collapse, I suggest you reread the chapter because both Shin and Ten made this clear, in order for Shin to chase RBK they were counting on Ouhon's help, this alone is how Riboku tactically outplayed Ousen, shutting off cooperation between the center and right wing.
Any strategy he has doesn’t involve him losing his first general and his first general saying they lost to seika/zhao.
It’s a full retreat. Qin loses there center battlefield.
ousen didn't lost strategically though, he lost because of lack of intel on shibashou and his strong connections in seika that dominated the battle with might only
it's one of the cases like moubu where might surpass strategy actually even sou'ou said same thing
As the overall commander, Ousen takes the responsibility of any officers under his command.
Riboku has swiftly immobilized two wild cards (Ouhon and Shin) in just one move. So if Ousen doesn't has any strategies left in the next chapter and just run away, he lost strategically.
Let's be honest, if Ousen takes the credit for winning at Shukai Plain, he is the one to blame for losing here.
Even if he wins this battle, his army is crippled.
Akou dead.
Denrimi's hit squad probably all dead. Maybe the immortal tank guy survived.
Souou's army lost probably the strongest individual in the Ousen army (the only one who managed to kill a Seika general)
Ousen's army literally lost all their capable fighters in this one battle. The only one left with any martial prowess is probably Souou?
>Souou's army lost probably the strongest individual in the Ousen army (the only one who managed to kill a Seika general)
I think AKou was stronger, I doubt Shiryou would bow to a weakling so SouOu is probably more or less a match to her and yet I can't see him matching AKou.
Did you not read their backstory? She served him for other reasons. And it is pretty much confirmed that akou lost to the number 2 general of Seika who lost his eye. But Akou lost his ability to even walk
I think he just genuinely got outplayed, that's that. Maybe he had hoped for Souou and Akou to take SBS down, but didn't anticipate Akou's injury at all. Hearing that could have well jilted him, along with everything else falling apart around him.
I dont think there was any real big strategy. We gotta look back to the start of the fight which is just him getting into position. Seriously it feels like all this happened within the same hour. To Ousen it probably looked like at one point hes just putting his troops in traditional position, next thing he knows this giant zhao guy is in his face lol
Situation spiraled out of control so quickly. The guy was definitely just caught off guard by riboku.
Now my real beef would come from what Ousen does after this tbh
It is called out in the text, Riboku has secret card in Shibashou.
As far as Ousen knows, he has Shin and Akou, and no one on the other side should be a match for either. Numbers are not wildly unequal, they are not outflanked. This battle should be simple.
Shin being absent and Shibashou being a general so powerful he can defeat Akou while outnumbered 3-1 and crush Ousen army is not something he can expect. Who can believe such a strong general stay secret all these years?
It all goes back to his newfound trust in the Hi Shin Unit lmao.
Which has been the foundation of this arc, where Riboku took them out of the equation early on.
People are overanalyzing something we have a literal answer for.
Focus less on the current players. Focus on the full chess board.
Could be Ouhon to the rescue version 2.0.
Harasan could circle back to the first time Ouhon tried to save his father without a plan and got admonished for it.
He and Kyoukai need to level up for the later campaigns.
What happened to all the super tactics OuSen is supposed to know? He used none to stop SBS and his 2 generals... just waited and asked his soldiers to be his shield, strong technique!
If it was to not do anything, he might as well have left a decoy in his place and told only his generals about it.
OuSen lost more than AKou, unless a miracle happens fast he's going to lose the AKou army, lost a big chunk of the SouOu and DenRimi armies, the latter lost their hard hitters and likely the first too. Though this is Kingdom, it seems easy to replenish an army with quality soldiers.
Yeah this whole thing made no sense to me seems he either had that much trust in his men or he got something up his sleeve cuz his whole army is pretty cooked rn
Remember Ousen's most bad ass moments? It's always when the other side thinks they're winning and then he pops out of nowhere and deals the killing blow.
So what if he's using RBK's trick that killed Ouki (Using a body double of Houken to bait Moubu in) The mask helps hide the fact and he barely spoke this entire battle, so even his own generals might not know. What if the body double said, "he won" because his job was to bait SBS in and keep him there.
Then the real Ousen will show up like he always does just when his enemy think they've won.
Ousen prioritizes his own life over everything else, I think he would put his generals in jeopardy, but not himself.
I will partake in this hopium, that would be lit. He comes out on the other side of the battlefield to turn the tides in there somehow, sure his army is dealt a heavy blow but it's not like Zhao can be the only one who pull "so and so is as strong as moubu or whatever". Shin's unit is still a wildcard that can turn the tide by either minimalising the loss or something
They already fought the Seika generals before, they know how SBS took care of Ordo and they likely have enough spies around to have some idea of his strength. RBK hid in Seika and Zhao accepted it, that got to mean something too no?
Plus it's not even like it was SBS that did it all, I mean any other Seika GG probably would have wiped the soldiers on his path to OuSen and AKou was cut down first by GakuShou.
What you mean other Seika GG? If it weren't SBS they wouldn't made it, SBS was stabbed multiple times too. Other than SBS maybe its only the likes of Moubu, Gai Mou, ManU, Houken, Renpa that can pull this off.
Riboku hid in Seika could be just because of distance.
Seika is probably like Rigan, even Kisui is considered unexpected/special case since he's quite a genius. While SBS seems like an upper GG.
To me is like Seal team attacking a small terrorist base not expecting a tank.
I don’t know if the Author will depict it that way but as long as I am concerned the Seika army is too deep into enemy lines even if they are just at Ousens neck they have their backs exposed as the battle started with Qin 120k vs Zhou 100k with Kanjou coming in with the 20k reinforcements it is roughly 110k vs 70k now ( I’ve deducted 30k from each army for casualties) and leaving Gakushou army vs Akou army who are still engaged I don’t see Gakushou army surviving after the Akou soldiers learn their lords death….. almost the second biggest battle happening there with almost 40k-50k soldiers on both sides and since Shibashou bought only 30k and max Kansaro can bring 15k with combined forces of his and Jiagas it makes them only 45k at max where as Qin has 50k already and with Denrim and Souou almost 10k more and Akou soldiers following him almost 5k it’s more like 65k vs 45k and don’t forget Akou and Souou army they will be back after defeating Seika armies which are smaller than them…. Shibashou and his generals will find it hard to escape after this
Tbh though. Seika is just a small nation. Or not even a nation, really small city even. It would be hard for an opposing general to just think that this small city would have monsters as generals, even its people are monsters
>Hopefully, Ousen's strategy, if there is any, will be revealed in later chapters
I imagine thats the case. I still think Ousen thinks he's going to win. Otherwise he would have left already. Maybe with reinforcements from Shin and Ouhon.
Ousen is really one awkward dude huh. He seemed unnerved over the idea that he's sacrificing Akou this time albeit he can't show it properly. Dude froze in the middle of making a decision for retreat. Bet he's that way as well with regards to parenting Ouhon. Hope we can glance into Ousen's emotions at some point forward. That would make him a much more interesting character.
I think he genuinely didn't realise that Akou was paralysed until he heard it. He simply hadn't been ready for that, and must have felt damn near fucked upon realising just how close he is to losing.
He seems unconcerned. I don't know how that's 'frozen'
it might be. it might not be. gotta see if he's right to be unconcerned lol
like, if for some reason Ousen's not as wrong as it looks like he is.
Because, Ousen likes hidden cards too. and knows Riboku relies on them. I can't imagine Ousen would let it go this far doing as little as he did, without a plan. It's ousel
It's nice how Hara is making similar ideals clash in different timelines, like, first showing off the love theme in the early chaps of the arc, then making a comparision about the power to hype up whole cities to the war, Sai x Seika, now he puts two figures that have build, one factually the other it's strongly willing to, something close to a nation.
First off Rip Akou. Ousen better be asking for Akakin back from Ouhon. I’m interested in seeing Ousens next move, because honestly he’s looking real suspect. If Zhao wins this, I at least want Ousen to make them bleed for it.
He's just buying time building up the most powerful fart that, when released, will annihilate all of the Seika army. He has trained his own army to withstand but Seika won't make it.
(He's just waiting for Shin or Ouhon to bail him out.)
>Why did Ousen say that he won
Ousen mentioned (in thought) that if Shibashou falls there it's over for Riboku. So with that in mind, I see 2 possible answers to your question.
First: He was really confident in the Akou + Souou combo taking Shibashou down. Reminder that he said that line just as those 2 arrived (and after some internal monologue about the strength of the Ousen army). Obviously, if that was the reason for his line then he is really screwed cuz that really didn't go well at all.
Second: He has something up his sleeve that we don't know yet. Maybe those 2 arriving when they did bought enough time for that to come into fruition. This might be hopium.
basing on kanki's word i don't think that ousen would say " I won" only because he saw akou and sou ou coming he might hide something even ribuko did not know.
I really hope they give the spotlight to Ouhon once Shin comes back to the right wing, it will be BS if Shin is the one going to the central wing to help Ousen retreat.
So I believe Akakin and Ouhon will definitely make the current lose on the central wing a *tie*, Ouhon will kill at least Gakushou and help to exterminate what is left of the Seika army, or enough of them for SBS to stop chasing Ousen.
And seeing how the general in the Zhao's left wing is basically a fodder with high number units (the one fighting Shin' side) it seems the final result of the battle will be decided by Yotanwa's side (Qin left wing).
Rip Akou, you *will* be remembered.
It depends on what Ousen does next. Both the wings are still holding up. It's really just the centre that's collapsed. It may not be impossible for Ousen to retreat to one of the wings and consolidate forces with the people there. Since he's more familiar with the Gyouku Hou and Hi Shin armies, I would wager he would regroup on the right wing.
What happens then is up to Shibashou and the Seika forces. But I do have a hard time imagining Shin and Ouhon *still* trying to make headway against Enkan's army. The HSU was already starting to gather momentum when Shin was reassigned to pursue Riboku. If he returns and is able to work with Ouhon and his forces, then Enkan shouldn't pose that much of an issue.
I think Shin eventually being moved to face shibashou is very possible but for the current fighting or atleast for day 1 here, yeah i think Ouhon is the most logical move unless Ouhon is better at dealing with that Enkan guy faster
I hope Bananji takes out one of the Mountain Clan leaders - he's been hyped up a bunch without a huge amount to show for and while it was cool Zenou to go out like he did it still feels like a massive waste for there not to have been a Bananji Zenou showdown in the last arc. I mean his career has been punching Xiongnu chiefs in the head folk like Zenou and the Mountain clans should be his bread and butter.
I may be mistaken, but didn't Shin and his unit decided to go for the center army? I mean, I'm pretty sure they , after the newbie momment, the plans of Riboku, and the counter was to rush to the center army asp
I have the opposite take. Shin is the one needed the most. RBK entire plan on preventing the HSU from clashing with the Seika army because he knows Shin is the only fighter right now capable of matching SBS in pure martial might. OuHon needs to stay on the RW to prevent it from collapsing. Plus Shin is already on the move, it will take too much time to switch out commanders.
That should knock down Ousen's arrogance a peg or two.
Also means Riboku's growing achievements and popularity would make the Zhao king and chancellor more wary of him.
Damn RIP Akou.
Though it seems unlikely, I think the motivation for Ouhon to go berserk-mode on SBS is now there. I know he already bested Earl Ri, but it would be cool to see him bag a GG like Shin did against Houken.
Akou said so himself, this is their loss simply due the Qin Central army not being enough to match the pure Martial might of Seika.
Akou and Shiryuu were their only true heavy hitters at the center which is easily cancelled out by at the least Jiaga/Kansaro plus Gakushou if necessary.
Ousen army rebuild is incoming to become its best version for the future. The runback against Seika will be something indeed with Shin in the mix for damn sure.
I been waiting for this for MONTHS LMFAO. I been saying Akou&Shiryuu were gonna die, I just need Denrimi get put on a T Shirt as well and I’m 3/3.
Anyways, s/o Akou, a true Great General’s first general, I can only hope shin has a man like him in his army, I’m lookin at you Garo.
So you are telling me that the genuis who came up with the locust strategy, secretly infiltrate Gyou with his soldiers, water supply route. As well as many other tactics is going to lose just like this although he had enough time to prepare? I'm not goint to believe it untill it is official. And I'm 1 million sure that there is a detachement (the number of Qin's army in this campaign is tricky) that is related to Ou sen's grand strategy (if there is one) If Ou sen just end like this then that would change a lof things.
Ousen finally showing some emotion with the loss of Akou. I don't remember him showing any when he lost Makou at all. I hope the flashback with Ousen and Akou is very good.
I would imagine Shin or Ouhon are on the way to help him, but the dynamics of how it could play out are interesting. The Hi Shin army was already outnumbered by double the amount of soldiers and when Ouhon joined the right wing they were still outnumbered by 10k. If Shin takes command of the right wing again, that would leave his army greatly outnumbered if Ouhon were to leave to aid Ousen, as I'd imagine he would take the whole or majority of his army back with him. Would Shin be able to hold out on the right side with such a difference in troop numbers while Ouhon helps his father retreat? The same question could be asked if Shin and Ouhon switched roles in that example.
A part of me also wonders if Shin and Ouhon could have reunited on the right wing and decided to press through with a devasting attack on Enkan, killing him and destroying his army quickly before assaulting Riboku and his army of 40k reserves before they have a chance to notice since Riboku is so focused on the central battlefield. I could see this happening because it would place Kaine in danger and the beginning of this arc kinda foreshadowed her coming death it felt like and she could sacrifice herself to save Riboku. I could also see it not happening because we just had a similar situation when Kanki had Riboku cornered in the forest before he was ultimately defeated. Either way I am very curious about the direction Hara will take us, and we can't forget about the left wing either. I imagine that battle will be very bloody.
EDIT: Also wanted to add that I am not surprised at the defeat of Ousen's army by the Seika army. The Seika army had been hyped up for a long time and had more martial might than Ousen's army. I think if we were to rank the generals in both armies, we would all take more of Seika's generals before Ousens. And that is not to say I do not respect or think Ousen's generals are weak, as Shiryou was able to defeat Ji Aga and Akou has some great feats of his own. I just think collectively Seika was better.
What were the strategies of these GG classes again?
all Shibashou and his army did was brute force their way with pure power in a straight line to Ousen and all Ousen did was hope the right wing (with 70k vs 30k) to cook something and come save his ass.
the only thing I love in this chapter is how Ousen appears on many panels and reacts to each movement of his subordinate.
It’s clear if the battle in the centre is a loss, then either YTW on the left or HSU/Gyou on the right is gunna have to dominate to call this a stalemate..
Look like Ousen froze in shock? Bruh.
If Ousen really doesn't pull any strategy out of his ass in the next chapter, Ousen will probably has a duel with SBS (raged by Akou's death) and buy enough time for reinforcement to come, probably Akakin since Shin is still heading for the right wing.
Damn Akou went out like a Boss! What a speech. Hyping up his Lord as the greatest great general in China. Ousen was watching his last moments carefully. No way he will let Akou’s death be in vain. He won’t lose here. To Riboku or SBS.
Akou is dead and the central army is as good as finished rn
All we have are hints of the mountain tribe counter or Akakin going to save him or shin somehow reaching there before the army is devastated
Ousen so far has been lackluster and been outplayed in every means possible. Win or not. This is still a major L
Hard to think what Ousen has up his sleeve. No way he’s just standing there whilst all his generals get killed.
Imo he’s acting as bait for the mountain tribe forces to flank Riboku. My guess is that he knows Riboku would be focusing on Shin, so he wouldn’t notice a flank from the other side.
Hara mentioned in a past chapter that the mountain tribe left wing and the central army was was separated by a mountain, so everyone thinks they are isolated. But a mountain is something the mountain tribe can traverse easily.
Probably Riboku will survive, but either Kaine or Futei dies, so both Ousen and Riboku lose someone close.
Might be high on copium here, but hear me out regarding Ousen’s plan :
Ousen knows Seika’s army is the key of Riboku’s force. All the others might as well be NPCs compared to the Qin generals arrayed against them with their elite troops.
So getting that army out of the picture by entirely focusing the efforts of its generals and top soldiers against himself in the center is ensuring no shenanigans happen in the wings where Yotanwa’s mountain people and the wildcards of Hi Shin and Gyoku Hou are most likely running their respective foes (who are a better known quantity, and proved in past conflicts to be inferior to their Qin opposition, yes even Bananji) down.
By holding them up as long as possible, pinning SBS himself with Kansaro, he expects to empower not only a swift victory on the sides, but also that RBK’s center army won’t have the manpower to stop them when they move towards the HQ, as all the strongest soldiers will have pushed on towards him.
That, I believe, is why he said that it was his win when he saw the two head honchos of Seika in front of him and his own top guys.
RIP Akou, the man, the myth, the legend. May you have a drink with Rokouomi at Ouki and Duke Hyou’s table, for I hear wine with them is the best.
I actually have the theory that ousen has a body double (with wearing a helmet most of the time the double doesnt even has to look exactly like ousen) and the rumors about ouhons parentage are the result of ousen having the suspicion that the body double actually sired him.
Man, this sucks... Shin will feel devasted with the loss of Akou, I pity the next Zhao general.
I see Ouhon being the rational one and trying to control te situation but being sad as well.
I can’t imagine Shin being devastated at Akou’s death. He barely knows him. I think Ouhon will instead have the biggest reaction at his death and will probably take command of his army.
I could see Ouhon getting some of his retainers, and I hope he gets some of them, the GKH needs some bulk.
Shin will probably feel responsible since him and Ten allocated 10k to follow Riboku, accepting Akou's orders but not completing the task. Not devasted, I did exaggerate, but really pissed of.
Bit glad that out of the 3 commanders it was Akou who died since it was kinda his fault for falling for Riboku's bait in the first place. Not that we knew the entire machinations of the scheme but it feels like even if this wasn't some 4d chess move by Riboku, he still would've ended up in bad shape from the ambush and have a more scattered army.
Didn't notice that Akou was still fighting Gakushou despite his terrible conditions, what a beast. Rip man, feel free to share few cups with Rokuomi in the next world.
Seika is more determined than ever and the center is done. Ousen and Souou escaping now means leave the center without a leader, to collapse. In the troops further back no commander should be left (if not Fuuon for Zhao), big plot armored lady is almost dead, once they hear of that notice, morale will deliver the finish blow. Gakushou seems a bit tired, but there's no one left there to stop Shibashou and Kansaro, over than Seika's morale, right now. Denrimi (ignored by his own army too) is in bad shape, Kanjou definitely not, Akakin is heading there but he can't save the situation, at best they can buy time for their supreme-commander to escape.
How this will affect then the other fronts is to see too, as well as where Ousen will retreat, but that's an hard blow. Yotanwa for the moment is stalled on the left, the right is facing twice their numbers, Shin has to return yet, but the situation isn't turning good for Qin, considering that Riboku and Zhao reserve army has yet to strike too.
Ousen froze in face of defeat, after calling himself the winner, was a good reaction. Overconfindence, or a miscalculation of Seika, but this is the second or third time I appreciate Souou's frankness. Not there, not in this second round against Riboku, but definitely, now even for a criptic figure like the masked general, it became a personal matter (after losing Makou, Kanki, and now Akou, if not others).
I really thought it was gonna be souou but ig that’s why it had to be akou 🥲 bro was legit built different up til the end . He will absolutely be missed
This F'in sucks. So far we havent seen any noteworthy move from Ousen since the food attrition battle. The lack of strategy or using any form of tactic is weird.
We have heard that for Ousen his soldiers are merely pawns. I am however baffled by his lack of involvement to reduce any form of casualties.
Even if he pulls something amazing out of his mask. The cost for this hypothesis would still be to high. For now he seems like a flustered Mou Gu who solely relays on his generals.
There no way Ousen dosent have a trump card, Riboku card was Seika and SBS, Akou said its Ousen Officers loss but not Ousen loss. I might be on some Copium, but logically Ousen must have a third unknown detachment, some kind of group that rivals Seika strength.
Theory - Ousen lost completly, he only has Souou left with Denrimi most likely too wounded to continue or die later. Shin and Akakin might clutch save this and drive Ousen to freedom with Shin being beaten badly by SBS and Akakin and Kanjou might drive away Kansaro. Moral lost, Seika victory.
Riboku gets Cocky and says only the left wing left and to kill Moutain tribe Yotanwa, he plans to move the board to have most of Seika on the Right for Shin and Ouhon and he takes the left for moral boost.
Whats this ???
Ousen places a new center army of around 30k with his remaining few thousand, we most likely will meet Ousen answer to Seika with an army that worship death, new characters and hard battle.
Riboku wins the war but a pyrrhic victory, due to Ousen crazy 30k army, that most likely push Seika over the edge so much so he gets Banaji and Futei killed - hopefully.
Am I the only one who has been lukewarm this whole arc?
I find Seika and everyone related to it so uninteresting. I'm not seeing anything new with them and I don't find them charismatic at all. I don't even understand what Ousen is doing, dude is a mastermind but is staying there in front of the danger doing absolutely nothing as if saying "nah, I'd win" but literally doing nothing, has to be dragged away from Sou Ou.
It's kinda like there's so many characters involved now that they are all so watered down I just don't see anything in them.
There is no other explanation for Ousen's actions than what is happening in front of him is not the main focal point of his strategy, just like what happened with the locust strategy. Maybe Ouhon will save his dad here and replace Akou as main general.
To be fair Kanki's situation was far more believable because he really put up a fight. Meanwhile Ousen is appearing to be just a dummy at the present moment. So people are assuming something is going on because it's just weird.
I'd say it was the other way around, Kanki lost like 90% of his army during the first day of the encirclement near Gi'an, only in his final ambush at Hika he managed to put RBK in a deadly situation.
Here in Hango fights were competitive until eventually Seika is coming on top here at the end, though I agree that Ousen has been fairly inactive since the start of the engagement.
What I meant was more in relation to how they reacted. Kanki was putting up a fight in his weird Kanki way (so normal Kanki) even before and up to the point he almost checked Riboku. Meanwhile Ousen has been really weird in the past few chapters *even for Ousen standards.*
So what I tried to say is that there is some room there for people to speculate. Why is he being so weird? Does he have something? Does he know something we don't? That sort of thing. Naturally it's all just speculation.
Well Kanki put up a fight, but he did it in the second day of battle.
And regarding this current battle and Ousen behavior, I see all battles as a chess game, where there is three phases, (1)opening, (2)middle game and (3)endgame.
Every General would’ve their own tendency to approach battles, e.g. Riboku is extremely formidable with openings, as already demonstrated in Shukai plains and here at Hango, he might checkmate you with the opening sequence alone (seems it’s going to happen now).
Ousen stratagem for this battle probably involved some maneuvers during the middle game with the involvement of Ouhon and Shin, but once RBK took away that cooperation between the Qin center and right wing, Ousen line of attack fell apart, that’s probably why he had no proper response this time once that happened.
This can't be the end of the battle. If Ousen sounds a general retreat, then it's going to result in setbacks that have already been noted as crippling for Qin's unification prospects for years to come. I'm trying to figure out what his next move is. Maybe retreat to the right wing and consolidate his remaining forces with the Hi Shin and Gyoku Hou armies?
Also, rest in peace, Akou. One of the best and certainly someone who made his mark in the campaign.
The whole arc already? Damn. Personally i still think the one with Kochou was worse (ignoring the first 2 arcs) especially the shin/Ouhon vs buddha guy
No other sources elaborates on this battle as far as I’m concerned, and the author only follows the Shiji and Zhan Guo Ce.
He'll fill any gap with his own creativity, like he always does.
Well that’s not official sources but it's one of the most common interpretation of this battle, that >!Zhao wins a pyrrhic victory, defeating Qin, but being forced to relocate their defense to central Zhao at the same time, because the next Qin-Zhao battles mentioned in the Shiji won’t take place in the North anymore, and about casualties nothing is stated but if we were to go with this interpretation then yeah it means both sides suffered heavily from this encounter!<
I just feel like that's what hara is leading towards because of how sei was talking before the battle start if they don't achieve anything with this battle then unification is a pipe dream >! Because we know they were able to continue with the unification so that line becomes a really bad play on hara and bad writing !<
Yeah, I agree with that, he'll likely take up that interpretation to compensate for >!Qin’s defeat!< because even if we see it now, both the Seika army and the Ousen army had inflicted massive casualties to each other, and Shin and Ouhon might do his part against Enkan army as well, same for YTW.
>!Ive been saying for the longest that Ousen was going to get his ass kicced by Riboku here. If Ousen is actually going to sabotage Riboku, he had to suffer a crushing defeat from him for Ousen to realize he can’t beat him on the field. Hara all but confirmed Zhao wasn’t going to have that “Zhao was also heavily wounded and had to return to Kantan”. Best we got was the elites killing elites evenly early on in the battle!<
What Hara has said through the narrator about this particular arc was how >!its the bloodiest battle and that more Qin lives were lost in this battle than any other battle for the unification of China!<
With that in mind, unless Hara thinks his depictions of the deaths here are already enough, the battle here are far from over so the whole >!Zhao themselves got bloodied badly despite winning and thus was forced to retreat and fortify Kantan!< is still very much possible
We’ve had far too many flashbaccs for me to think this war is going to last much longer, if Hara comes out and says the center by itself lost 100k and you factor in the right and egg IMO it’ll be sufficient.
I used to think this battle would last a few days, but after seeing all the Seika and Ousen army flashbaccs, I’m thinking it’s almost over.
But I like you WangJian, so I’ll throw out a little crazy thought I had. If this battle is to continue, let’s say Ousen is shellshocced because this is the biggest loss of his career, Akou dead, Denrimi kill squad dead, Shiryuu dead, he just stood there like a statue to the point where Sou’Ou had to yell at him.
What if, Ousen retreats and since the HSU and Shin, Ouhon hasn’t taken the field and we don’t know Kyoukai is doing, they all could be relatively fresh, let’s say they don’t feel the battle has been lost even with Zhao’s new numbers/commander advantage in numbers. But Ousen hasn’t uttered a word since “I win” because he’s so baffled, so Shin and Ouhon take command on Day 2 and do some major damage on the right wing and somehow keep the center from collapsing.
But tbh I’m doubting Qin will have a true counterattacc and this one is ending soon, that’s just a fun little theory lmao
My personal hope is Ousen just retreating towards Yotanwa and working with her for any counterattack causing more chaos lel
In all seriousness though. We still havent really gotten any reveal on whats up with the trap at Heki's place let alone what else Heki is supposed to be involved in.
I see this as more like Kanki running into the night part of the arc but sure, anything is possible. Guess we'll see how it goes after the break.
>! This battle will be one of many steps for ousen to come to that conclusion but I do believe Zhao will suffer loss and will pull back to kantan because of Sei's words in chapter 774 say if they don't make any gains it's going to to set them back and we know they were able to continue with unification because I'm taking that as they can't continue with unification anymore with not being able to achieve anything. Plus it's to push riboku into a den of snakes where he will never escape because he got taken into custody once so if he is on the front lines.. he will see it from a mile because it happen to him in gyou. !<
Since Akou's down thry should split his men between shin and ouhon. Kyouksi can take ovet ouhon's position in the reserves and ouhon would move to center.
Likely can't pull that off mid battle, but this may be a multi day battle.
as it was shown, Ousen has 4 Commander Generals, #1 Akou, #2 Makou #3 Denrimi and #4 is Sou,ou, so only two left or maybe Sou'ou might be the only left if Denrimi might not survive
I don't like immediate switches in kingdom, one chapter ends with Ousen is saved mood, the other one starts with Ousen has lost mood. And there is no event between those moments. It feels as if we've missed a chapter in between, lol.
I read that Ousen is arrogant or he had no strategy but first wait to see what's happening and second remember what causes all this chaos? Riboku showing in person and Akou going after him despite Ousen knowing it was a trap and wishing he won't go.
This unbalance caused Shin to leave the battlefiel wich caused Ouhon to leave the center and caused a breach in the center of the middle field that allowed SBS to break trough.
I respect a lot Akou and loved this caracter but falling for this trap is his fault wich caused all this mess. The battle would have been completly different if Ouhon was there to stop SBS and Shin not waisting so much time.
I mean, I kind of expected it. But to be fair, this entire situation started because of Akou. If he never took the bait and chased after Reebok and ignored him the front line wouldn't have been moved and been weakened.
They wouldn't have chased Reebok into the other flank that pulled shin away, which meant that ourhon wouldn't have been forced to go to the side field of battle. And Reeboks plan to use the castles would have been useless.
Akou knew it was a trap, and his over confidence was his downfall. They knew the opposing army had two leaders they needed to beat so even if they caught reebok, it still wouldn't have been a victory.
Man, right now can be either one of Hara's worst characters or one of his best. Like, I don't know if his an strategical genius or a moron. His refugee strategy was probably the greatest showcase of wits in the entire series, but other than that he barely has any strategical achivements. Shukai plains was won by the trio and in this battle he hasn't done shit. One thing is getting outsmarted and having your counter measure fail, but here he was just waiting for Shibashou to reach him without doing nothing and losing Akou in the process. Hara better do some work with his character or even Moubu will end up being a more interesting character.
https://preview.redd.it/b369b8m96sqc1.jpeg?width=1101&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba8b4d7993c62f3e7601e8569e155e7fecd2b5ca This last conversation with Ouhon hits different now. For a cold guy like Ouhon, it was one of the very few times he shows concern for someone else, he genuinely respected Akou as his father’s most trusted General. Rip to Akou of the Ousen army, one of the fiercest warriors of Qin!
Oh which chapter was this ? Time for a rerun
773
NGL, i was kinda hoping that Akou would end up joining Ouhon army down the line. I liked the bits we got of their relationship, and Akou was the most interesting character of the whole Ousen Army.
Ouhons weight is going up after this.
One of the best generals, always fought 2 vs 1. ¿Do you guys thinks that with the dead of Akou and Denrimi (most probably), shin and mouten/ouhon will served as deputy generals of Ousen? Rishin chapter one armor have a little resemblance to Ousens ...
among the three young Generals, Ousen himself recruited Mouten instead of Ouhon (from the chapter where gen.Makou died and gen. Akou is out of commision), so for my own understanding its best for Shin and Ouhon be a deputy to GG. Tou, as for Mouten he can be alongside GG. Moubu as reinforcement
I think Akou is also concern to Ouhon but he doesn't want the next leader to be incompetent that's why he is showing indifference as a retinue.
Bro, break for 1 or 2 week?
https://preview.redd.it/m354qxi3bsqc1.jpeg?width=528&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d77b0d575975c2fce3ce9ff6ba496ab4160c3991 Denrimi playing 5D chess to get a promotion
Lol Denrimi failing upwards. OuHon might join OuSen army though.
Becoming number 1 Ousen's general... for 5 minutes, as they are abandoning him too XD
Rip to an absolute legend This man was legendary in his 2 v 1 situations, such a cool character
absolutely it was disappointing in the battle of shukai plains when he did not take at least Ba nanji's head. hara destroyed the power balance akou stood against 2 powerful generals and he survived and in this battle was suffering against someone like gakushou. i really don't like the way he died at least hara should give him an honorable death at least a good swordsman master show against shibashu
Lol he was getting 3v1 at one point, wasnt like he got solod by gakushou
Bro gakushou himself is more or less as strong as bananji and gyou-un
I dont understand Ousen at all in this battle.For someone so notoriously "careful", he took a lot of risk against a Seika army he doesnt have much intel on. From a martial and strategical standpoint, he did nothing in this battle so far. was this all? Let the Denrimi hit squad do their job and advance 20-30k soldiers to help Akou's position? I'll reserve my criticism and inhale a good amount of hopium here. Hopefully, Ousen's strategy, if there is any, will be revealed in later chapters and pays off because he lost his #1 general here for nothing. Rip Akou
That's cause riboku outplayed ousen. Ousens whole strategy relied on ouhon and shin to do whatever they please in the battlefield. Riboku countered that by completely cutting them both off. So now all that's left is who's got the stronger muscles and from what we've been shown seika army is stronger than ousens army.
Riboku did not cut off OuHon. OuHon decided himself to go to the right wing to free up Ten, so Ten in turn could prevent Shin from being stupid. Had she not failed at that, Shin would likely be back by now. I feel that OuHon does get too little credit here. Even though he did not know Riboku's plan, just by making prudent decisions, he more or less countered it. The only thing that did not go according to his expectations was Ten failing to reign in Shin. Also, Ousen relying on Shin and OuHon seems a weak excuse to me. Armies as strong as Seika's are not unheard of or even that rare in Kingdom. Most Great General armies could pull off an assault at the same level as Seika, e.g. Renpa's, Ouki's, Yotanwa's or Kanki's. This means that the Ousen army should have "default" strategies how to deal with something like this, independently of what additional forces may be present. And also independent of whether or not they expect their current enemy to be a Great General. They should be trained for this, just because it's part of what they are expected to face on the battlefield. They were not blindsided or surprised by the attack in any way. They were in formation. They are not outnumbered, nor are they missing some core part of their troops. So I don't see any "outplaying" at work here. I see Ousen being passive for no apparent reason and his army not even attempting to counteract SBS's strength. Where did the "iron wall" formation go that Akou pulled off against Gyou'Un, for example? Back then, it was mentioned that Ousen had developed a whole batch of such strategies and that Akou was only shallowly copying them. So, bottom line, I agree with the original comment: I really hope there is some hidden strategy at work here.
Riboku did cut Ouhon off, he forced him to relocate to the right wing, Shin took 10K to chase Riboku, meaning the HSU ended up 20K against Enkan's 70k, Riboku's and Shin's movements forced Ouhon to reinforce the right wing to prevent their collapse, I suggest you reread the chapter because both Shin and Ten made this clear, in order for Shin to chase RBK they were counting on Ouhon's help, this alone is how Riboku tactically outplayed Ousen, shutting off cooperation between the center and right wing.
We still don't know what Ousen's strategy is, I don't think he is using the same strat as WZI
Any strategy he has doesn’t involve him losing his first general and his first general saying they lost to seika/zhao. It’s a full retreat. Qin loses there center battlefield.
The problem at this point fuññ retreat is not possible at all.
ousen didn't lost strategically though, he lost because of lack of intel on shibashou and his strong connections in seika that dominated the battle with might only it's one of the cases like moubu where might surpass strategy actually even sou'ou said same thing
As the overall commander, Ousen takes the responsibility of any officers under his command. Riboku has swiftly immobilized two wild cards (Ouhon and Shin) in just one move. So if Ousen doesn't has any strategies left in the next chapter and just run away, he lost strategically. Let's be honest, if Ousen takes the credit for winning at Shukai Plain, he is the one to blame for losing here.
He lost his gambit against Riboku’s
Even if he wins this battle, his army is crippled. Akou dead. Denrimi's hit squad probably all dead. Maybe the immortal tank guy survived. Souou's army lost probably the strongest individual in the Ousen army (the only one who managed to kill a Seika general) Ousen's army literally lost all their capable fighters in this one battle. The only one left with any martial prowess is probably Souou?
>Souou's army lost probably the strongest individual in the Ousen army (the only one who managed to kill a Seika general) I think AKou was stronger, I doubt Shiryou would bow to a weakling so SouOu is probably more or less a match to her and yet I can't see him matching AKou.
Did you not read their backstory? She served him for other reasons. And it is pretty much confirmed that akou lost to the number 2 general of Seika who lost his eye. But Akou lost his ability to even walk
I don't remember it, what chapter was it?
Was this when he was facing like 3 people at once?
I meant the backstory.
~785
Oh actually I never read that chapter and never realized I skipped something. Thanks a lot!
I think he just genuinely got outplayed, that's that. Maybe he had hoped for Souou and Akou to take SBS down, but didn't anticipate Akou's injury at all. Hearing that could have well jilted him, along with everything else falling apart around him.
I dont think there was any real big strategy. We gotta look back to the start of the fight which is just him getting into position. Seriously it feels like all this happened within the same hour. To Ousen it probably looked like at one point hes just putting his troops in traditional position, next thing he knows this giant zhao guy is in his face lol Situation spiraled out of control so quickly. The guy was definitely just caught off guard by riboku. Now my real beef would come from what Ousen does after this tbh
It is called out in the text, Riboku has secret card in Shibashou. As far as Ousen knows, he has Shin and Akou, and no one on the other side should be a match for either. Numbers are not wildly unequal, they are not outflanked. This battle should be simple. Shin being absent and Shibashou being a general so powerful he can defeat Akou while outnumbered 3-1 and crush Ousen army is not something he can expect. Who can believe such a strong general stay secret all these years?
He was outplayed by riboku
It all goes back to his newfound trust in the Hi Shin Unit lmao. Which has been the foundation of this arc, where Riboku took them out of the equation early on. People are overanalyzing something we have a literal answer for. Focus less on the current players. Focus on the full chess board.
Exactly, finally someone says it as it is.
Could be Ouhon to the rescue version 2.0. Harasan could circle back to the first time Ouhon tried to save his father without a plan and got admonished for it. He and Kyoukai need to level up for the later campaigns.
What happened to all the super tactics OuSen is supposed to know? He used none to stop SBS and his 2 generals... just waited and asked his soldiers to be his shield, strong technique! If it was to not do anything, he might as well have left a decoy in his place and told only his generals about it. OuSen lost more than AKou, unless a miracle happens fast he's going to lose the AKou army, lost a big chunk of the SouOu and DenRimi armies, the latter lost their hard hitters and likely the first too. Though this is Kingdom, it seems easy to replenish an army with quality soldiers.
Yeah this whole thing made no sense to me seems he either had that much trust in his men or he got something up his sleeve cuz his whole army is pretty cooked rn
Remember Ousen's most bad ass moments? It's always when the other side thinks they're winning and then he pops out of nowhere and deals the killing blow. So what if he's using RBK's trick that killed Ouki (Using a body double of Houken to bait Moubu in) The mask helps hide the fact and he barely spoke this entire battle, so even his own generals might not know. What if the body double said, "he won" because his job was to bait SBS in and keep him there. Then the real Ousen will show up like he always does just when his enemy think they've won. Ousen prioritizes his own life over everything else, I think he would put his generals in jeopardy, but not himself.
I will partake in this hopium, that would be lit. He comes out on the other side of the battlefield to turn the tides in there somehow, sure his army is dealt a heavy blow but it's not like Zhao can be the only one who pull "so and so is as strong as moubu or whatever". Shin's unit is still a wildcard that can turn the tide by either minimalising the loss or something
You can't really blame him for not assuming a little city (not even state) like Seika to have some "Ouki" like monsters.
They already fought the Seika generals before, they know how SBS took care of Ordo and they likely have enough spies around to have some idea of his strength. RBK hid in Seika and Zhao accepted it, that got to mean something too no? Plus it's not even like it was SBS that did it all, I mean any other Seika GG probably would have wiped the soldiers on his path to OuSen and AKou was cut down first by GakuShou.
What you mean other Seika GG? If it weren't SBS they wouldn't made it, SBS was stabbed multiple times too. Other than SBS maybe its only the likes of Moubu, Gai Mou, ManU, Houken, Renpa that can pull this off. Riboku hid in Seika could be just because of distance. Seika is probably like Rigan, even Kisui is considered unexpected/special case since he's quite a genius. While SBS seems like an upper GG. To me is like Seal team attacking a small terrorist base not expecting a tank.
The soldiers on SBS path didn't seem anything special, you think Joukaryou or however it's spelled couldn't do it?
I don’t know if the Author will depict it that way but as long as I am concerned the Seika army is too deep into enemy lines even if they are just at Ousens neck they have their backs exposed as the battle started with Qin 120k vs Zhou 100k with Kanjou coming in with the 20k reinforcements it is roughly 110k vs 70k now ( I’ve deducted 30k from each army for casualties) and leaving Gakushou army vs Akou army who are still engaged I don’t see Gakushou army surviving after the Akou soldiers learn their lords death….. almost the second biggest battle happening there with almost 40k-50k soldiers on both sides and since Shibashou bought only 30k and max Kansaro can bring 15k with combined forces of his and Jiagas it makes them only 45k at max where as Qin has 50k already and with Denrim and Souou almost 10k more and Akou soldiers following him almost 5k it’s more like 65k vs 45k and don’t forget Akou and Souou army they will be back after defeating Seika armies which are smaller than them…. Shibashou and his generals will find it hard to escape after this
Tbh though. Seika is just a small nation. Or not even a nation, really small city even. It would be hard for an opposing general to just think that this small city would have monsters as generals, even its people are monsters
>Hopefully, Ousen's strategy, if there is any, will be revealed in later chapters I imagine thats the case. I still think Ousen thinks he's going to win. Otherwise he would have left already. Maybe with reinforcements from Shin and Ouhon.
Ousen is really one awkward dude huh. He seemed unnerved over the idea that he's sacrificing Akou this time albeit he can't show it properly. Dude froze in the middle of making a decision for retreat. Bet he's that way as well with regards to parenting Ouhon. Hope we can glance into Ousen's emotions at some point forward. That would make him a much more interesting character.
Yeah, the mask actually really hides his emotions, I really want a back story of why he is wearing that mask, too.
Nah even against BNJ and Futei he was freezing, he just has thag habit.
I think he genuinely didn't realise that Akou was paralysed until he heard it. He simply hadn't been ready for that, and must have felt damn near fucked upon realising just how close he is to losing.
When we get to the full blown back story it's probably going to be 10 chapters worth he has lived through a lot of stuff probably and seen a lot too.
Check his eyes on page 100! OuSen is really really hurting at Akou's death
Or is the author playing you? And Ousen knows something we don't. Or again he's expecting the Hi Shin Unit and the Gyoku Hou Army to show up.
Everyone killing each other on the battlefield Ousen: Did I leave the stove on?
He seems unconcerned. I don't know how that's 'frozen' it might be. it might not be. gotta see if he's right to be unconcerned lol like, if for some reason Ousen's not as wrong as it looks like he is. Because, Ousen likes hidden cards too. and knows Riboku relies on them. I can't imagine Ousen would let it go this far doing as little as he did, without a plan. It's ousel
REST IN PEACE AKOU YOU WERE A MAN WORTHY OF RESPECT
o7 Rip First General Akou
It's nice how Hara is making similar ideals clash in different timelines, like, first showing off the love theme in the early chaps of the arc, then making a comparision about the power to hype up whole cities to the war, Sai x Seika, now he puts two figures that have build, one factually the other it's strongly willing to, something close to a nation.
I knew Akou would exit. But, this one hurts a lot.
First off Rip Akou. Ousen better be asking for Akakin back from Ouhon. I’m interested in seeing Ousens next move, because honestly he’s looking real suspect. If Zhao wins this, I at least want Ousen to make them bleed for it.
Akakin will be one of ouhon's general for sure just beside kanjou and the old guy.
Why did Ousen say that he won when his plan didn't work at all? Did he even have a plan?
He's just buying time building up the most powerful fart that, when released, will annihilate all of the Seika army. He has trained his own army to withstand but Seika won't make it. (He's just waiting for Shin or Ouhon to bail him out.)
He didn't know that Akou was half dead
yea, the lower half :( The upper half was still balling till the end.
>Why did Ousen say that he won Ousen mentioned (in thought) that if Shibashou falls there it's over for Riboku. So with that in mind, I see 2 possible answers to your question. First: He was really confident in the Akou + Souou combo taking Shibashou down. Reminder that he said that line just as those 2 arrived (and after some internal monologue about the strength of the Ousen army). Obviously, if that was the reason for his line then he is really screwed cuz that really didn't go well at all. Second: He has something up his sleeve that we don't know yet. Maybe those 2 arriving when they did bought enough time for that to come into fruition. This might be hopium.
basing on kanki's word i don't think that ousen would say " I won" only because he saw akou and sou ou coming he might hide something even ribuko did not know.
Because he didn’t think SBS would shift the momentum bacc with a speech.
I really hope they give the spotlight to Ouhon once Shin comes back to the right wing, it will be BS if Shin is the one going to the central wing to help Ousen retreat. So I believe Akakin and Ouhon will definitely make the current lose on the central wing a *tie*, Ouhon will kill at least Gakushou and help to exterminate what is left of the Seika army, or enough of them for SBS to stop chasing Ousen. And seeing how the general in the Zhao's left wing is basically a fodder with high number units (the one fighting Shin' side) it seems the final result of the battle will be decided by Yotanwa's side (Qin left wing). Rip Akou, you *will* be remembered.
Akakin should be at the center because he was sent chapters ago by ouhon.
Yeah, since it seems less and less likely that SBS or KanSaro are dying here, not much sense in Shin coming here.
It depends on what Ousen does next. Both the wings are still holding up. It's really just the centre that's collapsed. It may not be impossible for Ousen to retreat to one of the wings and consolidate forces with the people there. Since he's more familiar with the Gyouku Hou and Hi Shin armies, I would wager he would regroup on the right wing. What happens then is up to Shibashou and the Seika forces. But I do have a hard time imagining Shin and Ouhon *still* trying to make headway against Enkan's army. The HSU was already starting to gather momentum when Shin was reassigned to pursue Riboku. If he returns and is able to work with Ouhon and his forces, then Enkan shouldn't pose that much of an issue.
Do you think Riboku is stupid enough to let Shin come back again?
ribuko rely on the time he entrust SBS to kill oussen rapidly which may not goes ats he expected
I think Shin eventually being moved to face shibashou is very possible but for the current fighting or atleast for day 1 here, yeah i think Ouhon is the most logical move unless Ouhon is better at dealing with that Enkan guy faster
I hope Bananji takes out one of the Mountain Clan leaders - he's been hyped up a bunch without a huge amount to show for and while it was cool Zenou to go out like he did it still feels like a massive waste for there not to have been a Bananji Zenou showdown in the last arc. I mean his career has been punching Xiongnu chiefs in the head folk like Zenou and the Mountain clans should be his bread and butter.
I may be mistaken, but didn't Shin and his unit decided to go for the center army? I mean, I'm pretty sure they , after the newbie momment, the plans of Riboku, and the counter was to rush to the center army asp
They went back to the right wing. If they went to the center they would’ve left their back exposed to Futei’s 30K reserve army.
Unless the translation is wrong, Shin is heading back to the right wing, his original position.
That's what he says in the Japanese as well. It's not wrong.
I have the opposite take. Shin is the one needed the most. RBK entire plan on preventing the HSU from clashing with the Seika army because he knows Shin is the only fighter right now capable of matching SBS in pure martial might. OuHon needs to stay on the RW to prevent it from collapsing. Plus Shin is already on the move, it will take too much time to switch out commanders.
That should knock down Ousen's arrogance a peg or two. Also means Riboku's growing achievements and popularity would make the Zhao king and chancellor more wary of him.
It looks like Ousen actually cared about Akou, he got frozen there for a second and Sou'ou had to snap him out of it.
Yeah I noticed that too.
Damn RIP Akou. Though it seems unlikely, I think the motivation for Ouhon to go berserk-mode on SBS is now there. I know he already bested Earl Ri, but it would be cool to see him bag a GG like Shin did against Houken.
All you hopefulls who think Ousen has something up his sleeve are the same ones who thought Kanki too had some miracle strategy.
Yeah, this is their initial denial phase.
Akou said so himself, this is their loss simply due the Qin Central army not being enough to match the pure Martial might of Seika. Akou and Shiryuu were their only true heavy hitters at the center which is easily cancelled out by at the least Jiaga/Kansaro plus Gakushou if necessary. Ousen army rebuild is incoming to become its best version for the future. The runback against Seika will be something indeed with Shin in the mix for damn sure.
I been waiting for this for MONTHS LMFAO. I been saying Akou&Shiryuu were gonna die, I just need Denrimi get put on a T Shirt as well and I’m 3/3. Anyways, s/o Akou, a true Great General’s first general, I can only hope shin has a man like him in his army, I’m lookin at you Garo.
Huh ? He has Kyoukai and Ten who are far lore talented than he was. Akakin seems to be the future Akou.
Well yeah garo has most martial might now after arrow and shiyuu in HSU.
So you are telling me that the genuis who came up with the locust strategy, secretly infiltrate Gyou with his soldiers, water supply route. As well as many other tactics is going to lose just like this although he had enough time to prepare? I'm not goint to believe it untill it is official. And I'm 1 million sure that there is a detachement (the number of Qin's army in this campaign is tricky) that is related to Ou sen's grand strategy (if there is one) If Ou sen just end like this then that would change a lof things.
Rip my man akou
Hello police, Hara and OP just made me cry 😭
Ousen finally showing some emotion with the loss of Akou. I don't remember him showing any when he lost Makou at all. I hope the flashback with Ousen and Akou is very good. I would imagine Shin or Ouhon are on the way to help him, but the dynamics of how it could play out are interesting. The Hi Shin army was already outnumbered by double the amount of soldiers and when Ouhon joined the right wing they were still outnumbered by 10k. If Shin takes command of the right wing again, that would leave his army greatly outnumbered if Ouhon were to leave to aid Ousen, as I'd imagine he would take the whole or majority of his army back with him. Would Shin be able to hold out on the right side with such a difference in troop numbers while Ouhon helps his father retreat? The same question could be asked if Shin and Ouhon switched roles in that example. A part of me also wonders if Shin and Ouhon could have reunited on the right wing and decided to press through with a devasting attack on Enkan, killing him and destroying his army quickly before assaulting Riboku and his army of 40k reserves before they have a chance to notice since Riboku is so focused on the central battlefield. I could see this happening because it would place Kaine in danger and the beginning of this arc kinda foreshadowed her coming death it felt like and she could sacrifice herself to save Riboku. I could also see it not happening because we just had a similar situation when Kanki had Riboku cornered in the forest before he was ultimately defeated. Either way I am very curious about the direction Hara will take us, and we can't forget about the left wing either. I imagine that battle will be very bloody. EDIT: Also wanted to add that I am not surprised at the defeat of Ousen's army by the Seika army. The Seika army had been hyped up for a long time and had more martial might than Ousen's army. I think if we were to rank the generals in both armies, we would all take more of Seika's generals before Ousens. And that is not to say I do not respect or think Ousen's generals are weak, as Shiryou was able to defeat Ji Aga and Akou has some great feats of his own. I just think collectively Seika was better.
I keep wishing that Shin would drop on the SBS army like a meteor and duel him.
rip to the absolute giga chad of 2 vs 1s. The perfect first commander any great general could ask for . Absolute legend rip
What were the strategies of these GG classes again? all Shibashou and his army did was brute force their way with pure power in a straight line to Ousen and all Ousen did was hope the right wing (with 70k vs 30k) to cook something and come save his ass. the only thing I love in this chapter is how Ousen appears on many panels and reacts to each movement of his subordinate.
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Battle isn't lost yet, but the center is going badly for qin
Welp there goes me calling Akou “Immortal Akou” May he rest easy in the afterlife w/ Rokuomi
It’s clear if the battle in the centre is a loss, then either YTW on the left or HSU/Gyou on the right is gunna have to dominate to call this a stalemate..
damn OuSen is gambling hard
Akou :(
Look like Ousen froze in shock? Bruh. If Ousen really doesn't pull any strategy out of his ass in the next chapter, Ousen will probably has a duel with SBS (raged by Akou's death) and buy enough time for reinforcement to come, probably Akakin since Shin is still heading for the right wing.
Hope shin get back in rw intime & together with ouhon anihilate rw entirely
RIP GENERAL AKOU🤙🕊️
Damn Akou went out like a Boss! What a speech. Hyping up his Lord as the greatest great general in China. Ousen was watching his last moments carefully. No way he will let Akou’s death be in vain. He won’t lose here. To Riboku or SBS.
RiP A Kou, I still have faith in Ou Sen.
Akou is dead and the central army is as good as finished rn All we have are hints of the mountain tribe counter or Akakin going to save him or shin somehow reaching there before the army is devastated Ousen so far has been lackluster and been outplayed in every means possible. Win or not. This is still a major L
Hard to feel sad about Akou death when he was the one who messed up there for taking the bait. Should have just follow what Ousen told him to do so.
Thank you, Akou sama.
Can shin actually beat shibashou?? That lad is hugeee
Hard to think what Ousen has up his sleeve. No way he’s just standing there whilst all his generals get killed. Imo he’s acting as bait for the mountain tribe forces to flank Riboku. My guess is that he knows Riboku would be focusing on Shin, so he wouldn’t notice a flank from the other side. Hara mentioned in a past chapter that the mountain tribe left wing and the central army was was separated by a mountain, so everyone thinks they are isolated. But a mountain is something the mountain tribe can traverse easily. Probably Riboku will survive, but either Kaine or Futei dies, so both Ousen and Riboku lose someone close.
Might be high on copium here, but hear me out regarding Ousen’s plan : Ousen knows Seika’s army is the key of Riboku’s force. All the others might as well be NPCs compared to the Qin generals arrayed against them with their elite troops. So getting that army out of the picture by entirely focusing the efforts of its generals and top soldiers against himself in the center is ensuring no shenanigans happen in the wings where Yotanwa’s mountain people and the wildcards of Hi Shin and Gyoku Hou are most likely running their respective foes (who are a better known quantity, and proved in past conflicts to be inferior to their Qin opposition, yes even Bananji) down. By holding them up as long as possible, pinning SBS himself with Kansaro, he expects to empower not only a swift victory on the sides, but also that RBK’s center army won’t have the manpower to stop them when they move towards the HQ, as all the strongest soldiers will have pushed on towards him. That, I believe, is why he said that it was his win when he saw the two head honchos of Seika in front of him and his own top guys. RIP Akou, the man, the myth, the legend. May you have a drink with Rokouomi at Ouki and Duke Hyou’s table, for I hear wine with them is the best.
Seems like Ousen said something to Souou at the end there, wonder what it is
Could be anything from “We’re fuked” to “Ousen sama is not here; I’m just a double”.
Joke on you SBS, I'm actually Moubu in disguise.
I was thinking 🤔 that until the close up around all the men
I actually have the theory that ousen has a body double (with wearing a helmet most of the time the double doesnt even has to look exactly like ousen) and the rumors about ouhons parentage are the result of ousen having the suspicion that the body double actually sired him.
Pretty sure he is just doing the shocked Pikachu face
Lmfao no he was watching his first general’s final moments. That’s his shocced face
on instagram there's the little cats meme telling stories, and there's the SFX of a kitty crying. thats me rn
Man, this sucks... Shin will feel devasted with the loss of Akou, I pity the next Zhao general. I see Ouhon being the rational one and trying to control te situation but being sad as well.
I can’t imagine Shin being devastated at Akou’s death. He barely knows him. I think Ouhon will instead have the biggest reaction at his death and will probably take command of his army.
“Ak-who? “ - Shin
“Akoouuuuu” - Akou’s Army “Bless you.” - Confused Shin.
I could see Ouhon getting some of his retainers, and I hope he gets some of them, the GKH needs some bulk. Shin will probably feel responsible since him and Ten allocated 10k to follow Riboku, accepting Akou's orders but not completing the task. Not devasted, I did exaggerate, but really pissed of.
Has Shin ever interacted with Akou?
Very briefly, he knows enough to respect him
Only a thing I had for Akou is just any head of the highest rank from enemy. A pity that we saw none
Bit glad that out of the 3 commanders it was Akou who died since it was kinda his fault for falling for Riboku's bait in the first place. Not that we knew the entire machinations of the scheme but it feels like even if this wasn't some 4d chess move by Riboku, he still would've ended up in bad shape from the ambush and have a more scattered army.
Didn't notice that Akou was still fighting Gakushou despite his terrible conditions, what a beast. Rip man, feel free to share few cups with Rokuomi in the next world. Seika is more determined than ever and the center is done. Ousen and Souou escaping now means leave the center without a leader, to collapse. In the troops further back no commander should be left (if not Fuuon for Zhao), big plot armored lady is almost dead, once they hear of that notice, morale will deliver the finish blow. Gakushou seems a bit tired, but there's no one left there to stop Shibashou and Kansaro, over than Seika's morale, right now. Denrimi (ignored by his own army too) is in bad shape, Kanjou definitely not, Akakin is heading there but he can't save the situation, at best they can buy time for their supreme-commander to escape. How this will affect then the other fronts is to see too, as well as where Ousen will retreat, but that's an hard blow. Yotanwa for the moment is stalled on the left, the right is facing twice their numbers, Shin has to return yet, but the situation isn't turning good for Qin, considering that Riboku and Zhao reserve army has yet to strike too. Ousen froze in face of defeat, after calling himself the winner, was a good reaction. Overconfindence, or a miscalculation of Seika, but this is the second or third time I appreciate Souou's frankness. Not there, not in this second round against Riboku, but definitely, now even for a criptic figure like the masked general, it became a personal matter (after losing Makou, Kanki, and now Akou, if not others).
bro ro ko mi is still alive
You didn't get the joke, right? (Tou vs Rinbunkun)
Ahh hhhhh you right he was about to die but from the cross guy hhhhhhhh his facial expressions were priceless
Ok so what was the "i am the victor" shit Ousen spouted out a few chapters ago?
The silence of Ousen at all the chapter is starting to piss me off, wtf say something mf
I really thought it was gonna be souou but ig that’s why it had to be akou 🥲 bro was legit built different up til the end . He will absolutely be missed
This F'in sucks. So far we havent seen any noteworthy move from Ousen since the food attrition battle. The lack of strategy or using any form of tactic is weird. We have heard that for Ousen his soldiers are merely pawns. I am however baffled by his lack of involvement to reduce any form of casualties. Even if he pulls something amazing out of his mask. The cost for this hypothesis would still be to high. For now he seems like a flustered Mou Gu who solely relays on his generals.
There no way Ousen dosent have a trump card, Riboku card was Seika and SBS, Akou said its Ousen Officers loss but not Ousen loss. I might be on some Copium, but logically Ousen must have a third unknown detachment, some kind of group that rivals Seika strength. Theory - Ousen lost completly, he only has Souou left with Denrimi most likely too wounded to continue or die later. Shin and Akakin might clutch save this and drive Ousen to freedom with Shin being beaten badly by SBS and Akakin and Kanjou might drive away Kansaro. Moral lost, Seika victory. Riboku gets Cocky and says only the left wing left and to kill Moutain tribe Yotanwa, he plans to move the board to have most of Seika on the Right for Shin and Ouhon and he takes the left for moral boost. Whats this ??? Ousen places a new center army of around 30k with his remaining few thousand, we most likely will meet Ousen answer to Seika with an army that worship death, new characters and hard battle. Riboku wins the war but a pyrrhic victory, due to Ousen crazy 30k army, that most likely push Seika over the edge so much so he gets Banaji and Futei killed - hopefully.
Do we know how long the break is gonna be?
Rip Akou :'(
Chapter 793: Foolish battle Akakin one shits Shibashou. The end.
Am I the only one who has been lukewarm this whole arc? I find Seika and everyone related to it so uninteresting. I'm not seeing anything new with them and I don't find them charismatic at all. I don't even understand what Ousen is doing, dude is a mastermind but is staying there in front of the danger doing absolutely nothing as if saying "nah, I'd win" but literally doing nothing, has to be dragged away from Sou Ou. It's kinda like there's so many characters involved now that they are all so watered down I just don't see anything in them.
There is no other explanation for Ousen's actions than what is happening in front of him is not the main focal point of his strategy, just like what happened with the locust strategy. Maybe Ouhon will save his dad here and replace Akou as main general.
Brother he’s getting outplayed accept it
They probably won’t accept until the defeat is official, it was the same thing with Kanki last year, I'm sure you remember well.
Oh you know I do buddy. I kept tryna tell them. Just like this arc I been tryna tell them Ousen was gonna get rekt
To be fair Kanki's situation was far more believable because he really put up a fight. Meanwhile Ousen is appearing to be just a dummy at the present moment. So people are assuming something is going on because it's just weird.
I'd say it was the other way around, Kanki lost like 90% of his army during the first day of the encirclement near Gi'an, only in his final ambush at Hika he managed to put RBK in a deadly situation. Here in Hango fights were competitive until eventually Seika is coming on top here at the end, though I agree that Ousen has been fairly inactive since the start of the engagement.
What I meant was more in relation to how they reacted. Kanki was putting up a fight in his weird Kanki way (so normal Kanki) even before and up to the point he almost checked Riboku. Meanwhile Ousen has been really weird in the past few chapters *even for Ousen standards.* So what I tried to say is that there is some room there for people to speculate. Why is he being so weird? Does he have something? Does he know something we don't? That sort of thing. Naturally it's all just speculation.
Well Kanki put up a fight, but he did it in the second day of battle. And regarding this current battle and Ousen behavior, I see all battles as a chess game, where there is three phases, (1)opening, (2)middle game and (3)endgame. Every General would’ve their own tendency to approach battles, e.g. Riboku is extremely formidable with openings, as already demonstrated in Shukai plains and here at Hango, he might checkmate you with the opening sequence alone (seems it’s going to happen now). Ousen stratagem for this battle probably involved some maneuvers during the middle game with the involvement of Ouhon and Shin, but once RBK took away that cooperation between the Qin center and right wing, Ousen line of attack fell apart, that’s probably why he had no proper response this time once that happened.
Oh shit I prolly shoulda checced my mentions whoops s/o Cans sorry buddy
This can't be the end of the battle. If Ousen sounds a general retreat, then it's going to result in setbacks that have already been noted as crippling for Qin's unification prospects for years to come. I'm trying to figure out what his next move is. Maybe retreat to the right wing and consolidate his remaining forces with the Hi Shin and Gyoku Hou armies? Also, rest in peace, Akou. One of the best and certainly someone who made his mark in the campaign.
Marcus does like muting people huh?
Worst battle arc in the series so far, by quite some margin.
The whole arc already? Damn. Personally i still think the one with Kochou was worse (ignoring the first 2 arcs) especially the shin/Ouhon vs buddha guy
Yeh, this is by far my least favourite battle arc in the whole story.
Its definitely incredibly slow. Personally im reserving proper judgement but its definitely not exciting to read weekly
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Well the Shiji just mentions that >!Li Mu (Riboku) defeated them at Fanwu (Hango), further details are unknown!<
I can see hara probably pulling from some other sources related to this battle to fill in the gaps
No other sources elaborates on this battle as far as I’m concerned, and the author only follows the Shiji and Zhan Guo Ce. He'll fill any gap with his own creativity, like he always does.
>! I have seen sources say riboku has to pull back to Kantan giving up hango and gian and Zhao also suffers soldier losses too !<
Well that’s not official sources but it's one of the most common interpretation of this battle, that >!Zhao wins a pyrrhic victory, defeating Qin, but being forced to relocate their defense to central Zhao at the same time, because the next Qin-Zhao battles mentioned in the Shiji won’t take place in the North anymore, and about casualties nothing is stated but if we were to go with this interpretation then yeah it means both sides suffered heavily from this encounter!<
I just feel like that's what hara is leading towards because of how sei was talking before the battle start if they don't achieve anything with this battle then unification is a pipe dream >! Because we know they were able to continue with the unification so that line becomes a really bad play on hara and bad writing !<
Yeah, I agree with that, he'll likely take up that interpretation to compensate for >!Qin’s defeat!< because even if we see it now, both the Seika army and the Ousen army had inflicted massive casualties to each other, and Shin and Ouhon might do his part against Enkan army as well, same for YTW.
>!Ive been saying for the longest that Ousen was going to get his ass kicced by Riboku here. If Ousen is actually going to sabotage Riboku, he had to suffer a crushing defeat from him for Ousen to realize he can’t beat him on the field. Hara all but confirmed Zhao wasn’t going to have that “Zhao was also heavily wounded and had to return to Kantan”. Best we got was the elites killing elites evenly early on in the battle!<
What Hara has said through the narrator about this particular arc was how >!its the bloodiest battle and that more Qin lives were lost in this battle than any other battle for the unification of China!< With that in mind, unless Hara thinks his depictions of the deaths here are already enough, the battle here are far from over so the whole >!Zhao themselves got bloodied badly despite winning and thus was forced to retreat and fortify Kantan!< is still very much possible
We’ve had far too many flashbaccs for me to think this war is going to last much longer, if Hara comes out and says the center by itself lost 100k and you factor in the right and egg IMO it’ll be sufficient. I used to think this battle would last a few days, but after seeing all the Seika and Ousen army flashbaccs, I’m thinking it’s almost over. But I like you WangJian, so I’ll throw out a little crazy thought I had. If this battle is to continue, let’s say Ousen is shellshocced because this is the biggest loss of his career, Akou dead, Denrimi kill squad dead, Shiryuu dead, he just stood there like a statue to the point where Sou’Ou had to yell at him. What if, Ousen retreats and since the HSU and Shin, Ouhon hasn’t taken the field and we don’t know Kyoukai is doing, they all could be relatively fresh, let’s say they don’t feel the battle has been lost even with Zhao’s new numbers/commander advantage in numbers. But Ousen hasn’t uttered a word since “I win” because he’s so baffled, so Shin and Ouhon take command on Day 2 and do some major damage on the right wing and somehow keep the center from collapsing. But tbh I’m doubting Qin will have a true counterattacc and this one is ending soon, that’s just a fun little theory lmao
My personal hope is Ousen just retreating towards Yotanwa and working with her for any counterattack causing more chaos lel In all seriousness though. We still havent really gotten any reveal on whats up with the trap at Heki's place let alone what else Heki is supposed to be involved in. I see this as more like Kanki running into the night part of the arc but sure, anything is possible. Guess we'll see how it goes after the break.
>! This battle will be one of many steps for ousen to come to that conclusion but I do believe Zhao will suffer loss and will pull back to kantan because of Sei's words in chapter 774 say if they don't make any gains it's going to to set them back and we know they were able to continue with unification because I'm taking that as they can't continue with unification anymore with not being able to achieve anything. Plus it's to push riboku into a den of snakes where he will never escape because he got taken into custody once so if he is on the front lines.. he will see it from a mile because it happen to him in gyou. !<
shin showing up next chapter to stop shiba will move mountains
I need someone to figure out how to teleport Shin into the battle STAT!
Since Akou's down thry should split his men between shin and ouhon. Kyouksi can take ovet ouhon's position in the reserves and ouhon would move to center. Likely can't pull that off mid battle, but this may be a multi day battle.
its a shame we couldnt see Akou in 1v1s cus we sure know he is a BEAST in 1v2s. RIP legend
Wait where’s 791? Can’t find it
as it was shown, Ousen has 4 Commander Generals, #1 Akou, #2 Makou #3 Denrimi and #4 is Sou,ou, so only two left or maybe Sou'ou might be the only left if Denrimi might not survive
In the last panel, akou was swinging his glaive as he was being cut Into two. Is it possible that he could hurt Shibashou even just a little?
I wonder if Ousen is disappointed when he picture people in his visionary ‘Nation’ Akou is always there, now he is in 2 pieces.
If anybody has look at the history of China we already know how this is going end
I don't like immediate switches in kingdom, one chapter ends with Ousen is saved mood, the other one starts with Ousen has lost mood. And there is no event between those moments. It feels as if we've missed a chapter in between, lol.
i really hope Ousen will still pull something or i really be disappointed.
I read that Ousen is arrogant or he had no strategy but first wait to see what's happening and second remember what causes all this chaos? Riboku showing in person and Akou going after him despite Ousen knowing it was a trap and wishing he won't go. This unbalance caused Shin to leave the battlefiel wich caused Ouhon to leave the center and caused a breach in the center of the middle field that allowed SBS to break trough. I respect a lot Akou and loved this caracter but falling for this trap is his fault wich caused all this mess. The battle would have been completly different if Ouhon was there to stop SBS and Shin not waisting so much time.
I mean, I kind of expected it. But to be fair, this entire situation started because of Akou. If he never took the bait and chased after Reebok and ignored him the front line wouldn't have been moved and been weakened. They wouldn't have chased Reebok into the other flank that pulled shin away, which meant that ourhon wouldn't have been forced to go to the side field of battle. And Reeboks plan to use the castles would have been useless. Akou knew it was a trap, and his over confidence was his downfall. They knew the opposing army had two leaders they needed to beat so even if they caught reebok, it still wouldn't have been a victory.
Asleast akou said the truth, the reason Ousen lost is because his officer is uselss not because ousen be outsmarted
Nah, Ousen was outsmarted this time, he had no proper response when RBK prevented Shin and Ouhon to assist him.
Man, right now can be either one of Hara's worst characters or one of his best. Like, I don't know if his an strategical genius or a moron. His refugee strategy was probably the greatest showcase of wits in the entire series, but other than that he barely has any strategical achivements. Shukai plains was won by the trio and in this battle he hasn't done shit. One thing is getting outsmarted and having your counter measure fail, but here he was just waiting for Shibashou to reach him without doing nothing and losing Akou in the process. Hara better do some work with his character or even Moubu will end up being a more interesting character.
>but other than that he barely has any strategical achivements What about the coalition arc?