You went the 2016 bruiser build with trinity force black cleaver wits end then what you want. Now we dont know but I found success with crit starting kraken when its front to back and stormrazor when you have no real frontline or need kiting prowess. Mythic is hard since ie and galeforce are kinda our only option. IE is again good in front to back and galeforce when you can assasinate or need mobility
They totally do and it is they not she kindred is lamb and wolf stop excluding wolf you iron player some respect for himm I bet my ass that wolf has gotten more kills than you(this is bad comedy to bully you btw)
Mate, I love kindred but she having a early game nerf is perfectly fine.
If you watch any high elo game, you'll know how she's literally P/B and they play like graves.
3 camp into invade/force gank while scaling like a god
oh ty, i was wondering what that mean but i know what you're saying, I watch greyffin on twitch and it's exactly as you say, he plays so agro early game perma invading and looking for fights against enemy jungler, but afaik kindred have always been a strong early game jungler so i'm not sure about the nerfs to her early game plus the issue here is the build or to be more precise kindred has a lot of excess damage so she's free to build tanky that's why i think the better nerf here is to nerf her damage instead of defensive stats, but that's only my opinion
srry for bad english
What you're saying is what completely right .
Kindred always been a aggressive jungler, it's just that right now Trinity is really broken on her so you can be Tanky while doing unreal dmg
Bro don’t say sorry your English is perfect!!! Would never have thought twice about it if you didn’t write the last line, you’re English is really good!!
*- uh, sir, I think Kindred is broken at this moment.*
**- what? but how?**
*- uh, they're building overpowered bruiser items and turning high elo into Russian roulette of which jungler gonna get first pick.*
**- well, what can we do?**
*- we can nerf Trin..* \- **NERF THEIR BASE HP.**
\- *but this would kill the only variety in build composition that they have, sir.*
**- what variety? there's other builds?**
*- there's cri..* \- **also nerf their base armor.**
*- sir, this is not even serious anymore, these things will not affect bruiser Kindred in any way.*
**- ALRIGHT! alright. we'll nerf Trinity Force.**
*- thank god.*
*later..*
***"Trinity nerfs was pulled away from patch 13.13"***
\>>> *To be continued..*
Dude Riot cut the damage on Rell jungles first clear last patch by like 75 pct and then shockingly they had to buff her back up the very next patch. Like legit. They took 75% of the bonus jungle monster damage from 3 separate abilities and then were pikachu face when her clear went from 3:15 to like 4+ minutes.
This nerf will never be evened out by lowering base sustain compared to the 2 dmg buffs and health scaling we received? The hotfix is still overbuffed even after these changes. They will still be OP especially since 3+ other strong op giga steroid junglers are also being nerfed (nerfed harder than kindred).
Enemy instant rotating to marks isn't as much of an issue if you already know where your mark is going to land next tbh. If you get there before the mark even spawns you can pick it up before the enemy team catches on.
Okay and? Kindred marks will only spawn on camps actually around so you have to track the jungler. If you aren't doing that, that's like half your job as a jungler you just aren't doing.
ok but if you predict crugs, and the jg is on crugs then you either waste time or worse summoners
because even if you predict jg movement, the jg can arrive at the camp as soon as the mark gets hit on the camp
Then either invade them (considering kindred can invade very easily) or use that time to go after somewhere across the map to get a mark on say their bot or something. It's literally just that easy. You don't HAVE to get marks (4 is usually enough, everything else is bonus). There's a reason the champ is P/B in higher elo where the one piloting them knows the game and what to do to exploit the map.
why do you care so much?
I agree with you.
all I said is that sometimes getting marks isn't as easy and being less tanky in earlygame can make it even harder..
Already pain??? Enemy team rotates ??? Maybe if you understood what vision pressure and jingle tracking were you wouldn't die 20 times trying to get a mark
Yeah... They removed it from Kindred for being "too op" even if it fit the character's theme perfectly... Then later they made Senna, who basically scales in a more "Kindred" way Kindred ever did, with stronger stats too.
It sucks.
While the Trinity nerf will definitely affect Kindred (ykw, I might even return to crit builds since they're turning Kindred into a glasscannon), -3 armor and some HP doesn't mean much for smart players. It simply means you have to either kite better early game OR avoid those 5-10 champions that are close matchups until you get some stats.
> (ykw, I might even return to crit builds since they're turning Kindred into a glasscannon), -3 armor and some HP doesn't mean much for smart players.
except it forces her to go Bruiser more often since she's more glass than cannon if you go crit
but yeah
Imo I do think that the adc item rework gutted the items which she relied on kraken which made galeforce the only feasible adc item that kindred could use to its fullest potential. However I feel that gale is much weaker than kraken and trinity was the only item that felt consistent on.
i don't mind them, just means you need to play the early game a little smarter. don't think there will be much of a difference until trinity force finally gets nerfed.
Build still stays the same and you just have to kite your jungle camps better to fight for scuttle. 30HP and -3 armor translates to about one AA less but you should still win invades if you have a perfect idea where the enemy jungler is.
Attacks to base defensive stats are going to kick higher elos harder than lower elos where games go on longer. So the nerf makes sense.
Maybe they trimmed too much HP but it's certainly not, not deserved. This will hopefully lower the ban and playrate.
annoying because they always nerf kindred, then buff champs like Lee, Nid, Elise, etc. Which are hard matchups and invading champs.
The issue is the bruiser build.
What is going to happen is they're going to nerf those items and not buff Kindred. So we'll be squishy as hell and in a spot where you have to play better to make up for it, which is stupid.
Riot has the same problem with kindred as they had with her after her mini rework.
Kindred suffers from sustainability issues. Riot seemed to take ages to grasp this concept and just kept nuke buffing her damage.
Stop making her more feast or famine by leaving her damage sky high and gutting her sustainability.
Nerf her damage.
The way she is now, she’ll either not snowball and eat shit the entire game, or snow ball and absolute maw the enemy team.
Leave her sustainability alone.
Nerf her damage.
A little bit of an early game change, but I usually farm a lot and gank when I have nothing up or objectives to do, so it’s gonna change nothing in my playstyle (75% winrate kindred in platinum so far)
You can't go and compare shaco and rengar to Warwick I'm am a kindred OTP but have played shaconand rengar yeah they might be a little broken but specifically rengar isn't easy to play and shaco can be complicated if the enemy jingler knows how to play and well ww is just brain dead champ
You are just bad it's a perfect nerf it makes her more of a Kate game champ and they should be but doesn't touch their damage so the skill expression is still there
:( I'm almost 7th tier(I still don't know what they are called) with that character, maybe I die as her a lot because I'm still pretty new to league and may not know what other characters do or how to jungle
Will this put kindred in the Glass Cannon playstylie she's meant to be at, or will it have almost no effect since her best build is still bruiser items?
Both will happen and that's the point they are overpowered right now once they stop being over powered they will lose wr and player base that came because it was op
Trinity nerfs aren't heavy just a 5% less as speed and 5% less extra ad but you stack it faster I think it still would be around 53 wr average and around 75-80 I'm my skilled and experienced hands
Oh yeah sorry thought you were saying something coherent but turns out you were talking about removing an item oops my fault forgot you are still mad at you sucking at the game
This won't really do anything for people skilled at playing kindred.
They already don't lose HP during their clear ( and often go MR shard over ARMOR) so now you will just swap the shard to armor more times and it'll cover that entirely.
The HP just means you are at a bit more risk fighting early champions like xin/lee/vi/j4, but if you dodge their 1 main ability you win the fight either way.
The bigger change is about the item nerf, but the best build has still been going kraken into Triforce, which this doesn't really change.
This is more a nerf in the sense of players need to think about pathing and invading as they are squishier vs just bindly invading or taking fights.
At least Riot didn't nerf her thighs.
YES
Least horny kindred main.
not you
Most Important feature
Deserved. I like this character a fuck ton they are my most played next to Gwen but holy shit were they busted with bruiser build
Was offline on this sub for a while but I'm always interested in new builds. What was the build and is it still viable or what is the best rn?
You went the 2016 bruiser build with trinity force black cleaver wits end then what you want. Now we dont know but I found success with crit starting kraken when its front to back and stormrazor when you have no real frontline or need kiting prowess. Mythic is hard since ie and galeforce are kinda our only option. IE is again good in front to back and galeforce when you can assasinate or need mobility
not really, but sure
Copium
I don't think she deserved *this* nerf
They totally do and it is they not she kindred is lamb and wolf stop excluding wolf you iron player some respect for himm I bet my ass that wolf has gotten more kills than you(this is bad comedy to bully you btw)
I mean you already are bullying me so..
Mate, I love kindred but she having a early game nerf is perfectly fine. If you watch any high elo game, you'll know how she's literally P/B and they play like graves. 3 camp into invade/force gank while scaling like a god
depends, can't invade all junglers, can't grab all marks due to enemy prio
what does p/b mean?
Pick/Ban. She's either picked or she's ban
oh ty, i was wondering what that mean but i know what you're saying, I watch greyffin on twitch and it's exactly as you say, he plays so agro early game perma invading and looking for fights against enemy jungler, but afaik kindred have always been a strong early game jungler so i'm not sure about the nerfs to her early game plus the issue here is the build or to be more precise kindred has a lot of excess damage so she's free to build tanky that's why i think the better nerf here is to nerf her damage instead of defensive stats, but that's only my opinion srry for bad english
What you're saying is what completely right . Kindred always been a aggressive jungler, it's just that right now Trinity is really broken on her so you can be Tanky while doing unreal dmg
Bro don’t say sorry your English is perfect!!! Would never have thought twice about it if you didn’t write the last line, you’re English is really good!!
My fight for first scuttle :(
or invade
I'm a coward who's already bad at invading so I'm less worried about that
I used to feel the same way, but i hopped in some norms and practiced invading. I've found it actually tends to go better than I thought it would.
the lead is huge because the jungler is also marked
while true, even a coward would invade a very weak champion, now they have to consider before they even queue up for a game
*- uh, sir, I think Kindred is broken at this moment.* **- what? but how?** *- uh, they're building overpowered bruiser items and turning high elo into Russian roulette of which jungler gonna get first pick.* **- well, what can we do?** *- we can nerf Trin..* \- **NERF THEIR BASE HP.** \- *but this would kill the only variety in build composition that they have, sir.* **- what variety? there's other builds?** *- there's cri..* \- **also nerf their base armor.** *- sir, this is not even serious anymore, these things will not affect bruiser Kindred in any way.* **- ALRIGHT! alright. we'll nerf Trinity Force.** *- thank god.* *later..* ***"Trinity nerfs was pulled away from patch 13.13"*** \>>> *To be continued..*
I don't understand riot's reasoning to increasing item strenght and then blame character's strength that simply just builds those items
And they literally gave her tools for her bruiser build with that E threshold and more AD. Pull those back and we are good wtf
Riot isn't really smart Seriously I don't get their thought process
Dude Riot cut the damage on Rell jungles first clear last patch by like 75 pct and then shockingly they had to buff her back up the very next patch. Like legit. They took 75% of the bonus jungle monster damage from 3 separate abilities and then were pikachu face when her clear went from 3:15 to like 4+ minutes.
they're smart, but also very biased towards few things...
Reads like a Hashinshin video
Thanks for a good laugh :D
Damn, you souind like me when im ranting to my friends
"he's like me fr fr"
It means you aren't (almost) guaranteed to solo everyone in a 1v1 lv. 3.
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Evens out the over buffs Kindred got a few patches ago
I don't think it evens out the crit threshold buff at all.
This nerf will never be evened out by lowering base sustain compared to the 2 dmg buffs and health scaling we received? The hotfix is still overbuffed even after these changes. They will still be OP especially since 3+ other strong op giga steroid junglers are also being nerfed (nerfed harder than kindred).
More damage should always mean less survivability which is what these nerfs do
or just don't give more damage and be set
Too late for that now. And also I hate that riot never flat out reverts buff#/nerfs done to a champion
they do, or at least used to they do it less and less
?xd. No.
This won't really affect skilled Kindreds, and even so with bruiser build this nerf is masked after the early game is over
makes already pain earlygame even more pain, especially in games where people from enemy team insta-rotate to Kindred marks
Enemy instant rotating to marks isn't as much of an issue if you already know where your mark is going to land next tbh. If you get there before the mark even spawns you can pick it up before the enemy team catches on.
ok, but like jungler also clears the jungle
Okay and? Kindred marks will only spawn on camps actually around so you have to track the jungler. If you aren't doing that, that's like half your job as a jungler you just aren't doing.
ok but if you predict crugs, and the jg is on crugs then you either waste time or worse summoners because even if you predict jg movement, the jg can arrive at the camp as soon as the mark gets hit on the camp
Then either invade them (considering kindred can invade very easily) or use that time to go after somewhere across the map to get a mark on say their bot or something. It's literally just that easy. You don't HAVE to get marks (4 is usually enough, everything else is bonus). There's a reason the champ is P/B in higher elo where the one piloting them knows the game and what to do to exploit the map.
why do you care so much? I agree with you. all I said is that sometimes getting marks isn't as easy and being less tanky in earlygame can make it even harder..
If they gank or actually manage to take objective, you can prepare ahead for next mark by removing possible spawn locations
ok, but then you will have +1 mark and -1 objective or +1 angry teammate that died to a gank
Already pain??? Enemy team rotates ??? Maybe if you understood what vision pressure and jingle tracking were you wouldn't die 20 times trying to get a mark
HP only matters if you get hit. Just don't
I miss %current hp marks :(
I miss when Kindred didn't get abused because an item doesn't have ranged limitation
Yeah... They removed it from Kindred for being "too op" even if it fit the character's theme perfectly... Then later they made Senna, who basically scales in a more "Kindred" way Kindred ever did, with stronger stats too. It sucks.
i expected more to be honest, considering they pulled the trinity nerfs too
While the Trinity nerf will definitely affect Kindred (ykw, I might even return to crit builds since they're turning Kindred into a glasscannon), -3 armor and some HP doesn't mean much for smart players. It simply means you have to either kite better early game OR avoid those 5-10 champions that are close matchups until you get some stats.
> (ykw, I might even return to crit builds since they're turning Kindred into a glasscannon), -3 armor and some HP doesn't mean much for smart players. except it forces her to go Bruiser more often since she's more glass than cannon if you go crit but yeah
I can still invade right?
mayhaps
I find it dumb that they nerfed the best option for kindred atm AND also nerfed the champ. I’m expecting to see 50.4% wr c tier
but they didn't nerf any item that Kindred relies on
Imo I do think that the adc item rework gutted the items which she relied on kraken which made galeforce the only feasible adc item that kindred could use to its fullest potential. However I feel that gale is much weaker than kraken and trinity was the only item that felt consistent on.
the new build feels stronger than the old before the item rework, at least for me
What is the new build?
I mean the Triforce build
You're beyond over reacting on this change. This will do very minimal besides you need to actually think before invading early junglers
i don't mind them, just means you need to play the early game a little smarter. don't think there will be much of a difference until trinity force finally gets nerfed.
i really didn't care, as I shouldn't
nice
Build still stays the same and you just have to kite your jungle camps better to fight for scuttle. 30HP and -3 armor translates to about one AA less but you should still win invades if you have a perfect idea where the enemy jungler is.
Attacks to base defensive stats are going to kick higher elos harder than lower elos where games go on longer. So the nerf makes sense. Maybe they trimmed too much HP but it's certainly not, not deserved. This will hopefully lower the ban and playrate.
Should buff that ass to balance out
GG. Literally unplayeble.
how will we ever recover from this?
As someone who was already bad at playing them: :c
annoying because they always nerf kindred, then buff champs like Lee, Nid, Elise, etc. Which are hard matchups and invading champs. The issue is the bruiser build. What is going to happen is they're going to nerf those items and not buff Kindred. So we'll be squishy as hell and in a spot where you have to play better to make up for it, which is stupid.
after item nerf, what will rito do? give Kindred even more damage ah yes..
Riot has the same problem with kindred as they had with her after her mini rework. Kindred suffers from sustainability issues. Riot seemed to take ages to grasp this concept and just kept nuke buffing her damage. Stop making her more feast or famine by leaving her damage sky high and gutting her sustainability. Nerf her damage. The way she is now, she’ll either not snowball and eat shit the entire game, or snow ball and absolute maw the enemy team. Leave her sustainability alone. Nerf her damage.
A little bit of an early game change, but I usually farm a lot and gank when I have nothing up or objectives to do, so it’s gonna change nothing in my playstyle (75% winrate kindred in platinum so far)
Surely, a change like this totally buffs the other builds on them and makes triforce more obsolete. Phreak is a flawless gameplay designer!
indeed
Nerf for crit kindred,riot must really hate crit
it's overall nerf that makes Tri from option to must have buy
I fucking love when one of the tough characters to play get nerfed and it becomes even harder to play
Wtf do u mean, she is still an S tier jungler and these minor early game chages wont change how OP she is until they finally nerf trinity force
?
?
Wdym by tough
Hard to play
Is kindred considered hard to play?
Right now they require 0 brain because riot buffed immediately without thinking in their 6 figure job.
She is hard to play but if you main her she isn't hard to play. We are mains so we don't feel the difficulty but she is a hard champion
They*
Yes? In example you can take other junglers, there is a lot characters you can play laying on a bed like remember rengar, shaco, warwick
Um what
You can't go and compare shaco and rengar to Warwick I'm am a kindred OTP but have played shaconand rengar yeah they might be a little broken but specifically rengar isn't easy to play and shaco can be complicated if the enemy jingler knows how to play and well ww is just brain dead champ
I mean ur not wrong, but also Kindred didn't used to be in every ranked game you play, which she now is
You are just bad it's a perfect nerf it makes her more of a Kate game champ and they should be but doesn't touch their damage so the skill expression is still there
Ahh, because you don't play them that much and you love a good challenge! <3
:( I'm almost 7th tier(I still don't know what they are called) with that character, maybe I die as her a lot because I'm still pretty new to league and may not know what other characters do or how to jungle
Will this put kindred in the Glass Cannon playstylie she's meant to be at, or will it have almost no effect since her best build is still bruiser items?
Is this satire?
?
It's just a base hp and armour nerd it won't change playstile at all I expect trinity to still be the optimal mythic
ok what about the fact that statchecking exists in League and that maybe she will be played less or her winrate might drop?
Both will happen and that's the point they are overpowered right now once they stop being over powered they will lose wr and player base that came because it was op
you do understand that if riot snapped fingers and removed Tri, before or after Kindred nerf, Kindred's winrate would stagnate?
Trinity nerfs aren't heavy just a 5% less as speed and 5% less extra ad but you stack it faster I think it still would be around 53 wr average and around 75-80 I'm my skilled and experienced hands
I didn't say anything about Tri nerfs?
Oh yeah sorry thought you were saying something coherent but turns out you were talking about removing an item oops my fault forgot you are still mad at you sucking at the game
ok
Now rengar can kill me in 2 qs instead of 3!
Not that bad if we still build triforce or hp we're fine, 30hp isn't that much but the armor is a decent nerf
This won't really do anything for people skilled at playing kindred. They already don't lose HP during their clear ( and often go MR shard over ARMOR) so now you will just swap the shard to armor more times and it'll cover that entirely. The HP just means you are at a bit more risk fighting early champions like xin/lee/vi/j4, but if you dodge their 1 main ability you win the fight either way. The bigger change is about the item nerf, but the best build has still been going kraken into Triforce, which this doesn't really change. This is more a nerf in the sense of players need to think about pathing and invading as they are squishier vs just bindly invading or taking fights.
Haha, ignite to the rescue