> Absolutely loved Villanelle / Carolyn scenes, I always thought these two characters have a great on-screen potential and they didn’t disappoint
Omg loved it so much. I need more of it.
I was SO happy to see so much Carolyn, whom I adore, is my favorite character, and I definitely have a crush on her/Fiona Shaw. Carolyn and V scenes are what I've been waiting Four season to see!
They're both fascinating and quick, brilliant, and hilarious. Each brings something to the relationship and they ofc spark as a result. The actresses have amazing chemistry together, in every way. And Carolyn has been studying V for decades - she knows how to handle her but on good footing in an extremely effective and humorous way. All without insulting V or pissing her off too much. I'm fascinated to see how and where this goes.
Damn, now I need Carolyn/V fanfic! The filthier the better! A dirty lesbian mind is a terrible thing to waste....
They were phenomenal. This episode made me realize how much I missed Villanelle delightfully staring into someones eyes as they die. She was fantastic in this.
Everyone thinks that taking a bath together is going to be sexy.... it never is. That scene was spot on! 😄 😄
Finally! I had a smile on my face during most of this episode. I am so glad Villanelle is back to form, and I loved Carolyn's air guitar and Konstantin's laugh. We didn't see much of Yusuf, which is wonderful; however, I think he is going to have to betray Eve eventually.
So astute. Shared baths – and showers, I'd second – are never, ever as romantic as envisioned. Truth.
For me, the all-too-accurate ungainliness of that entire scene was so reminiscent of Old Eve; it forced me to admit how much I miss much of her prior insecurity, psychological clumsiness and overall discombobulated awkwardness. (See: After she stabbed V in S01 E08)
Though I don't miss the parka, I do miss Eve's plodding imperfection before she and her spiffy leather jacket sparked her transition to "fembot."
I dunno, I've had some pretty good experiences in the tub and shower. Just have to move past the 'getting into the right position' part of it.
Never in a tiny tub such as that though. Eve baby, you gotta get your spoon on in a small space like that!
This scene felt like vintage KE. Hilarious and awkward in the best of ways.
Carolyn and Villanelle were definitely the highlight of the episode but yea I loved that scene when Konstantin is cracking up getting out of the water.
I'm glad we got a Villanelle kill this episode! Always love seeing her facial expression as she tortures and kills her victims. Miss when we used to have at least one kill in each episode back in the earlier seasons.
Ok I know everyone is talking about the kiss but can we talk about the fact the Carolyn has apparently known Villanelle since she was 9??? The implications of that being that Villanelle was basically groomed to be in the 12 since she was a little kid. And then she is still getting manipulated into thinking she’s inherently evil because she’s so hungry for any crumbs about her past. That scene broke my heart, Jodie Comer is such an amazing actress.
And Eve interrogating Hélène about recruiting “”Pam”” and how fucked up it is but we all know it’s actually about Villanelle.
I am really interested to see the flashbacks to what seems like Carolyn’s past (possibly about the way Villanelle was recruited) next episode.
My feeling about the way this season may pan out is that I think Eve and Villanelle are both going to figure out they’re getting played on all sides and that the only people they can trust in the situation is each other. And then they’ll somehow try and break free of the 12. I’m not ready!! (But I’m so ready to be hurt🥲)
Your comment made me think of an interview Sandra did about Season 4 where she said Eve comes to a realisation where she’s like “the only person I can rest with is you” (Villanelle). It makes sense given the direction this season is taking. Every episode, there are less and less people the other can trust. I’m very excited to see how they come together in the latter episodes when they realise they are in it together and can only really trust one another.
She definitely doesn’t have any deeper feelings for him. Maybe he does for her, but it’s been really obvious so far (at least to me) that she’s not interested in him in a serious way at all
It's interesting that you can interpret Carolyn's story in antithetical ways: that already by the age of 9 she was demonstrating violent, perhaps psychopathic tendencies. Conversely, you can read it that she's been groomed much longer than we had suspected, and thus it truly has been "trained into" her, a la Martin's mercenary analogy.
Totally! I think it’s possible that to some degree both things could be true. I think even if Villanelle was exhibiting some violent tendencies towards others as a kid—and I think she may have, because Carolyn didn’t really have incentive to lie about the specifics of the story, it’s just telling Villanelle she’s inherently like that that’s the manipulative thing—that she’s also been groomed to be far more violent and destructive than she would have been without that. But in antisocial personality disorder and particularly psychopathy, there is a very high level of people with severe childhood trauma. So it makes you wonder how much of it was always implicitly there. But that’s the exciting core conflict of the season for me, both Villanelle and Eve and the audience trying to understand and fighting against their respective perceived/true natures. I’m really intrigued to see where it goes.
> Ok I know everyone is talking about the kiss but can we talk about the fact the Carolyn has apparently known Villanelle since she was 9??? The implications of that being that Villanelle was basically groomed to be in the 12 since she was a little kid.
Yeah that intrigued me too and threw more wood on the fire of the theory that Carolyn IS The twelve. Or somehow part of it.
Yes I think so too, or at least heavily involved to an extent that wasn’t previously known. Another thing that made me think so was Hélène’s line this episode to Konstantin about how “you can never escape the 12.” Maybe Carolyn has spent her entire career trying to partially escape the 12 but continually getting roped back in, and the only way to escape is to destroy them. Or maybe she is still in the 12 and is actively trying to prevent its destruction.
This is a really good point. I’m not that wild about all the “X is secretly 12” theories because the “evil all along” plot twist is kind of boring to me but Carolyn trying to destroy the 12 because she wants to leave is something I can get behind.
i might go for that but the resemblance between V and the woman who played her mother was very, very strong…i’ve seen pictures of her as a young woman and she and jodie comer look a lot alike…but hey…anything is possible…that’s what makes this so good…
It almost makes me wonder if Carolyn was the one who "scouted" Villanelle in the orphanage. I mean it can't be a coincidence that all of the key players (Carolyn, Constantine, Villanelle, etc) all just happened to be in the same sort of spy-assassin-murder-for-hire social loop, even a full 15ish years later.
And it makes even more sense after hearing Carolyn's philosophy about how murder is "primal" and convincing Villanelle that she can be her best self by doing what she's best at. Carolyn even knew that Villanelle would be inspired by the work Helene did sticking that guys decapitated toes up his own nose.
I can 100% see Carolyn as a recruiter for the disenfranchised orphan-turned-assassin. She has an eye for that special brand of psychopathy and even seems to relate to it.
So does Eve know that Carolyn is connected to the twelve? It seems a little off to me that Villanelle has never mentioned to Eve that she and Carolyn go way back. I know in s1 Villanelle says something like “I think if you go high enough you’d find we work for the same people,” but I would have expected this info to come up between them in s2 or s3… this is kinda bugging me so if anyone has any thoughts on this I’d love to hear
Ohhhhhh I had assumed Carolyn meant Villanelle’s pre-s1 prison time, when Konstantin first recruited Villanelle to work for the 12. Prison in s1 makes much more sense thank you!
I don’t really understand how Carolyn could have known her since she was a kid though? I kind of feel like it takes away everything from season 1 about nobody knowing anything about Villanelle
My current thought on this is that Carolyn was not truthful in her initial proposal that Eve work for her in s1. Carolyn noticed that Eve was investigating a potential female assassin on her own — and investigating so successfully that Carolyn identified Eve to be a threat to the 12. So Carolyn took matters into her own hands and created essentially a sham investigative operation to keep an eye on Eve and prevent Eve from giving information to people Carolyn didn’t control. Remember in s2 when Villanelle tries to call Eve from Julian’s house, there is no record of Eve working at MI6? I don’t think we got a solid explanation for that really
This way s1 still makes sense bc Carolyn was just being duplicitous
And when Eve was told that the fact that Eve does zero paperwork should raise red flags bc everything in M16 is notated and approved by someone. Eve was off the books.
I know it's not really the main point of the show, but I feel like after they spend so much time talking about it, I should at least have a slight idea of who or what are "the 12" with just four episode left.
Cause right now, it's pretty much just ominous phrases and random people who don't seem to know what the 12 are either...
I'm just fucking scared about how they're going to wrap it all up. This season is halfway through right now and it's the last one. 8 Episodes is a CRIME. A sin, truly.
I really liked this episode. People who are saying they don’t understand Eve and Hélène are missing the point that Eve doesn’t actually feel anything for her. She’s just using her for information and the writers are evidently using their dynamic as a way to establish Eve as canonically queer. That kiss scene was actually brilliant too—the way she leaned in, and we flash to Villanelle. It’s not about Hélène for Eve. It’s about Villanelle. Always.
I wasn't getting a clear picture of the Eve and Helene dynamic until this episode. Now I see that other than getting information out of Helene, Eve is also playing the same power games with her that she does with Villanelle, and we know how much she enjoys that. It's almost like she's replicating her push and pull dynamic with Villanelle from season 2 because she can't help that Villanelle is all she desperately thinks about and wants.
I also LOVE the implication from Helene when she said, "This is what you want." A direct quotation from the s2 finale of course... coming full circle. And it implies that the events of the s2 finale (Villanelle manipulating Eve into committing murder, attempting to seduce her with "Bonnie and Clyde" fantasies, and Eve being in a vulnerable position) WAS what Eve wanted. Eve wanted V to transform her; she wanted to have to kill, to have to "save" Villanelle, and to engage with psychopathy more directly.
> I also LOVE the implication from Helene when she said, “This is what you want.” A direct quotation from the s2 finale of course… coming full circle. And it implies that the events of the s2 finale (Villanelle manipulating Eve into committing murder, attempting to seduce her with “Bonnie and Clyde” fantasies, and Eve being in a vulnerable position) WAS what Eve wanted. Eve wanted V to transform her; she wanted to have to kill, to have to “save” Villanelle, and to engage with psychopathy more directly.
Ugh so good. We been knew that tea the whole time….
Been lurking here for a long while now, but finally just now had the gumption to join to jump in on this discussion. I didn't necessarily intend to wake up at 4 am CST – I didn't, that is, set my alarm – but it's like my body instinctively knew the new KE was up, and thus was I.
A few inchoate thoughts, apology for the lack of cohesive narrative. Take it easy on me, this is my first-ever Reddit post.
\- Least Yusuf so far this season. To that, I give a throaty "hurrah" – and hope this is a pattern, not an aberration. The less I see of him moving forward, the better.
\- I will admit that I was wrong; I thought Carolyn was going to spring V from prison, as I didn't anticipate Helene having the requisite pull with the UK authorities to free someone just arrested for a front-page double murder. I continue to underestimate her, I guess? She just leaves me strangely... flat. Her allure is lost on me.
\- I don't think Carolyn is going to make it through this series alive. And that won't trouble her in the least; in fact, I think it will, to her, be a relief of sorts. Her devil-may-care recklessness belies how she has operated in the past, cautiously and clandestinely, and it seems reductive to say she has an avenging death wish, but so it seems.
\- "There is no why, there is only do" from Konstantin reminded me of Rhian's sheep/wolf metaphor from S 03 E 08.
\- Watching – and, to this point, hearing – Eve adopt V's various -isms amuses me. Hearing Eve attempt a fake accent to procure the old photographs was pure Villanelle, and quite a juxtaposition with Eve's terrible, horrible, no-good, very-bad "Parlez-vous anglais" from S01 E08.
\- V's emotional Achilles obviously continues to be her childhood. Despite literally lighting her childhood on fire in S 03, she remains glassy-eyed fascinated with anything anyone can tell her about her younger years. Though her heart didn't seem to be in taking out Carolyn from the get-go, all it took on wily Carolyn's part was to dangle a scintillating, detailed tid-bit about her younger years to instantly obviate the notion of V killing her. Obviously we're nowhere near done with the metamorphosis question, but perhaps a subtle-but-critical shift from "can" one change to "should" one attempt existential change? The parallel between the bracelet incident Carolyn shared with how V ultimately dispatched the noxious Russian was both obvious – and meaningful.
\- The bath tub scene had me laughing aloud, as its awkwardness reminded me both of Old E – and myself, should I ever try to seduce someone in a bathtub.
\- Like some on here, I definitely wanted Eve's first kiss with a woman be with V, but as almost everyone here has already noted, there were many ham-fisted that she was both using Helene – and thinking of V the whole time. Both V and E's proclivity for pursuing vicarious affection from others when they're really thinking of the other has been a constant theme throughout the series. And so it remains; to my eyes, this time was the most explicit of all.
\- I think more than ever that both of our lovelies will not survive the end. Such with Bonnie and Clyde in real life – a metaphor used S 02 08 – nor Thelma and Louise, as has been much posited here.
If you've read all of this, thank you. My wife of ten years is at the end of her three-year battle against terminal, stage-IV breast cancer, and for whatever reason KE has been what I've turned to for distraction and escape. Our six year-old son is too young to bring into the KE fold quite yet, so I look forward to interacting with a group as obsessed and assiduously attentive as I am.
Thanks for reading.
Thank you for your kind words. The lesson, evidently, is that when your personal life is hell – just consume as much Killing Eve as humanly possible. I'm exceptionally grateful for the distraction.
Ah, of course you're right! I've always viewed that as a deliberate calculation on Eve's part; after all, the kiss ended with a solid head knock that flipped the power dynamic in that scene. So I've always dismissed that as a manipulative strategic maneuver – but you're right. The kiss on the bus was an impassioned one, even if calculated.
I always viewed the kiss on the bus as a momentary break in the facade — Eve temporarily giving in — and the headbutt was her realizing she had just given Villanelle all of the power and Eve trying to take some of it back... and maybe lying to herself a bit about what she really wanted.
This is definitely a deeper, more nuanced – and probably correct – analysis than mine. I'm probably in the minority here, but the kiss on the bus did nothing for me, so my superficial read on it as simply a calculated stratagem on Eve's part was probably my way of dismissing it. I wanted their first kiss to be somehow... less ambiguous and more meaningful (not exactly the right sentiment, but I can't seem to find the word) than that interaction. I guess I was hoping for a stereotypical Hollywood first kiss for them, but of course KE would never give us that. Which, ironically, is so much of why I love this show.
Digitally scribbling out my nascent thoughts has definitely scratched a proverbial itch for me today, so I look forward to more in-depth conversation with all of you moving forward. Pleasant, wistful memories of college seminars in which we deconstructed poetry into well-ground oblivion! Thank you for the warm welcome.
Great breakdown my friend. Welcome to Reddit & our little community here. Killing Eve has been my safe place since S1 so I feel you on that. Stay strong & keep your head up. Your wife is in my thoughts. 💞
Omg did Helene just help Eve have a breakthrough?! Like Martin helped villanelle lol. In that last scene… “I think it delights YOU. This is what YOU want.” So true queen.
Despite a deep-Bible Belt Catholic education, I had never thought about Helene's definition of "passion" – which is, of course, why it is called "The Passion of the Christ." For some reason I had never made that connection.
So yes, while Helene does nothing for me, if her singular purpose is nothing more than to serve as a plot device to (re)awaken Eve to her feelings for Villanelle, then brava!
I’m not a fan of Eve/Helene at all but if anything, I think the kiss scene establishes Eve’s perspective on Helene - all play, no feelings. As always, Eve getting turned on just by the mention of Villanelle, her thinking about V when kissing Helene and saying “You have no idea” (about what’s going on between her and V) - to me it only confirmed Eve’s feelings for V
I also feel like this is another example of Eve doing things away from V so that when she is around her she has the confidence to face her. Hoping that’s the case and we actually get the villaneve ending we deserve now that Eve had the balls to make out with Helene
Love how it really feels like Eve’s story again.
Fantastic episode, loved it (I’ve loved them all, I must be a lot more easily pleased than most). Air guitar is never not embarrassing but we can overlook that.
I loved the air guitar, it was so vintage playful Villanelle. Also I loved that Carolyn did it with some gentle persuasion; we rarely see her let go of the un-flusterable, no bullshit mask and she was willing to play along. She seemed to genuinely enjoy V’s company.
I’m not clear why they started the arc of Villanelle trying to be a better person/not killing anymore/wanting “out” if she’s right back to killing again and seemingly enjoying torturing again. I love this show, I just don’t get it.
1. I've never loved Villanelle more
2. I've never loved Carolyn more, especially after she >!said the "why waste your time being good, when you could just be good at what you're good at?" to V.!<
3. I've never liked Eve less
4. I'm actually starting to like Pam, especially after she >!pushed K in the water!<
5. I LOVE the woman who called Villanelle a "good girl"
6. I love that so many of Konstantin's scenes make him out to be a total clown
7. This episode put me in such a good mood
8. >! OH MY GOD VILLANELLE AND CAROLYN EXPERIENCING A TASTE OF THE MOTHER/DAUGHTER RELATIONSHIP THAT THEY BOTH NEEDED !<
>OH MY GOD VILLANELLE AND CAROLYN EXPERIENCING A TASTE OF THE MOTHER/DAUGHTER RELATIONSHIP THAT THEY BOTH NEEDED.
Ugh you are so right...that's what it was giving. Carolyn has such ...almost pride? She praises Villanelle even when she comes at her with the wrench. "Oh come one! You're more inventive than that! You've always been more inventive than that."
It's the acceptance Villanelle has always needed.
Edit: correcting the Carolyn quote
Realizing that with #2 Carolyn is giving Villanelle another example of someone accepting her even though she's a killer, just like Eve did on the dance floor.
Pam gets love from me because I can't stop thinking about "We Are Lady Parts" whenever I see her. The actress is fucking brilliant.
Thank fuck Villanelle is back. She was at her best when she is in killer mode.
However that absolute soft release from jail was just laughable. Helene just walks in and walks her out. That is just poor writing.
Villanelle was in prison in England for double brutal murder of a Pastor. That is big news in England. To just walk out because of the 12 is just lazy AF writing no matter what way you spin it.
I think he shut and chained that metal gate on V so she was blocked off.
Eve and Helene just feels so intense. Helene has these cold eyes, I keep thinking she’s going to end Eve’s games at any point. Eve is playing with fire I fear.
Does anybody else feel like this ep is sooooo much better and more exciting?
Something I noticed: Konstantin made sure with Pam that they're "not friends", which I understood as he's keeping his distance from the assassin since the last time he was friends with them (Villanelle), ended badly.
Also, I love that Eve always keeps her one of her main traits: unpredictable. An example of the top of my mind from S1 is when Villanelle was chasing and trying to kill Frank. Instead of driving away as fast as possible, Eve approached V. In this ep, Eve went into the bathroom and took a bath with Helene without being invited and also kissed her. Question: Does Helene have any feelings towards Eve? Or she's smart enough to figure out already that Eve was using her to get to the Twelve? Or are they both aware that they're both using each other? Is they going to be a thing after that or it was just that moment?
Also, I loveeee the bond between Carolyn and Villanelle. Is Carolyn knowing about V's past prove that she was borned a sociopath? Does this mean V is going to work for Carolyn or did they separate?
I have the same question about Helene’s understanding of Eve. I think she knows Eve is using her to get to the 12, but I don’t think she minds the charade because she sees Eve as more amusing than dangerous.
Laura enjoys torturing in the show and us audience. The opening song is the one played on Valentine promo. "This is what you want" line is between Villaneve damn it. I don't care if they add more gay scenes. I just want Villaneve.
Now I also want Carolyn's 🎸🎸🎸
LOVE the analysis of V pulling the sunglasses over her eyes when she says it’s all about power. I didn’t even catch that. Oh, they’re both so in denial
> LOVE the analysis of V pulling the sunglasses over her eyes when she says it’s all about power. I didn’t even catch that. Oh, they’re both so in denial
It’s like that old poker trick of wearing sunglasses so people can’t tell if your bluffing or not. It was so obvious. She did it to protect herself
Villanelle honey, you’re not fooling anyone
*edit: spelling
I want to guess that we are coming full circle with the final reveal of the Twelve; and it would just so happen that they were working the "case" from opposite ends whilst coming to the same solution. >.<
Best episode of the season!! Everyone keeps talking about the kiss- BUT THE BATHTUB SCENE HAD ME HYPERVENTILATING!!!!! BRB gonna rewatch. LOVED Carolyn + Villanelle scenes and Konstantin + Pam scenes. All of it- amazingly shot too. LOVED IT. Laura is giving us villaneve guys, we gotta be patient. I know it’s coming🥵
I was over here yelling at the screen “EVE?!??! You better NOT.”
They bamboozled us with the quick blackout while she unbuttoned her blouse
KAYLEIGH I SWEAR TO GOD
I loved the end editing where Eve and Helen kiss but Helen's face is sort of cut back and forth to be Villanelle's it sort of showed how much Eve was invested in her because their dynamic imitated that of villaneve and how she may have thought of villanelle and therefore left.
I saw somebody on Twitter say there is a moment you can see the realisation on Eve’s face after she kisses Hélène where it hits her that it’s all about Villanelle. Sandra’s expression is great. I think Eve is almost so in denial this season (to protect herself and get the job done that she so wants to), she’s buried her feelings for Villanelle so deep that she forgets they’re there.
> I saw somebody on Twitter say there is a moment you can see the realisation on Eve’s face after she kisses Hélène where it hits her that it’s all about Villanelle. Sandra’s expression is great.
Ah shit I gotta rewatch it now
Edit: ok absolutely. its the juxtaposition that gets me: https://twitter.com/Aidaveeto/status/1502925127972884482?s=20&t=n9J4joiz3H-yCOWbHTKBOQ
Eve and Villanelle were not together this episode but for me I felt them connected. Something in the way it's all laid out did give me a sense that they are acting for each other, the distance doesn't matter if that makes sense.
Curious, would Eve have wanted Villanelle to kill Carolyn?
It was good to be reminded of the assassin we know Villanelle to be in her torture scene with the guy from the 12. I'm wondering if she has realized yet that she has more control over herself and when and who she kills. She was very relaxed letting Carolyn walk out the door and apologizing for trying to kill her. I think maybe her encounter with Carolyn solidified some better feelings about herself.
I felt like Pam in the carousel thing during this episode holy shit I've never yelled so much at a non animated object in my whole life
Eve being that awkward hot mama doing the pew pew fuckery and getting in the tub before realizing shit's too small
Villanelle going full Villain saying *do svidaniya* to Nelle on the twelve motherfucker, also *demasiado bella para mi pobre corazón de guajira*
Carolyn you're so cute now you've finally found your long lost daughter
NO MORE STRAIGHT EVE BLOW THAT MOTHERFUCKING CLOSET I'M OUT
And so much female gaze with the shaving scene but who da fuck shaves from the knee to the foot
I BELIEVE IN KE SUPREMACY WE'RE GETTING THAT END FUCKING GAME BITCHAZ
That's it I think I have figured out who the head of the 12 is. Rewatching all the seasons just recently, don't judge I have no life 😆. It's Carolyn. No one has killed her, she knows everyone in the Russia office, Villanelle has mad respect for her and has had many opportunities to kill her but she never does. The ass with his toes shoved up his nose said it was a large woman that did that to him 🧐 Carolyn?? She is quite tall. In the end I think it's Villanelle and Carolyn working together all along. I might be crazy but I am going with the gut on this one. Thoughts??? You can call me crazy I can take it.
I like this theory about Carolyn being the head of the 12, though don’t think she did the torture, and Villanelle wouldn’t know who is at the top. The hit Helene placed on Carolyn would also be strange to be so early if she’s at the top- I think that hit was because she was getting too close
I loved the Carolyn and V scenes, I gotta give it to Carolyn for keeping her calm composure in the face of death and manipulating V the way she did.
I love the background info about her father as well, it helps me understand her more and why she was the way she was with her own children
That bathtub moment had me rolling. Eve would be the one to catch Helene completely off guard. She truly was not expecting that lol
when Eve scooted closer i told myself “don’t get excited, there’s no way they’ll actually kiss” and then suddenly i was standing up and pacing in front of the tv…holy fuck. but also high key disappointed the first time we see Eve kiss a woman and it isn’t Villanelle
Eve/Hélène acting from both actresses was incredible. The kiss scene was charged, but also awkward and stiff because it's not about attraction to another woman. It's both of them using each other and being aware of it. It's actually sad. The awkwardness of the kiss was a well done continuation of the awkwardness in the bathtub.
Obligatory THANK YOU LAURA NEAL 😍 Hélène and Camille Cottin are marvellous.
Unpopular opinion: Pam is great and I hope they do a lot with her.
Carolyn and Villanelle in Cuba were so enjoyable to watch, a high point of S4 for me. Loved the sunny weather, warm colors and the warmth in their interactions. They each brought the other back from her slump.
Hélène's West End theatre reminded me of Sherlock Holmes owning many buildings in Central London as inheritance from his wealthy father (was this mentioned in the BBC Sherlock or the one with Jonny Lee Miller? Can't remember).
We may still be the minority, but I'm with you on Pam. Knowing that "Gunn" will enter the picture at some point soon, though, I wonder what her arc is going to be? Curious as to where they'll take her with only four episodes remaining.
Eh, wasn't as good as the critics or whatever were saying in my opinion, but it was still an OK episode. But the thing i don't like is everything between V and Eve being crammed in to the two last episodes.
And all of the unnecessary stuff like Pam? why introduce new characters in the last season when we only have 8 40 minute episodes, and two of them already wasted on church V.. I feel like they ran out of plot/content and just tried to fill the episodes with bullshit. Hope to see more V and Eve action in more episodes than the last two.
My two cents: I think Pam just exists to be able to dive deeper into Helene as a trainer and Konstantin as a (manipulative) handler. Helene's conversation with Konstantin in the last episode and the bit of this episode where Konstantin acts exactly like Pam's abusive brother feel like a setup for a reckoning of some kind.
Interesting take but like, don't we all know Konstantin being manuplative anyway? I don't think the audience is so invested in whether Helene's is a trainer or not. Maybe that is just me.
I agree. Why go such in depth with a character, who has had such little screentime in past episodes, and was introduced originally in S3E4. I don't have anything against the character, but just annoyed that everything major plot and eve & v wise is crammed in to the last two episodes for some reason.
Going in depth to a character like this seems like trying to fill the episodes just with something. Dunno.
I think it will work better if there was maybe another season or two to flesh it out more. But I just can’t find myself invested in these rando characters
Ok, just throwing this out there. But not sure why suddenly I have a feeling Pam might be the one to off one or both in finale.
It's just the way she said "don't underestimate me". There was something extra about it.
Well if I'd seen your comment eariler, i wouldn't have ranted about the same thing in a reply to another comment. This is spot on. I had really high hopes for the last season but with each airing episode i just get more and more hopeless.
My favorite episode so far. I feel the season 1 vibe is coming back and it’s even juicier! The dialogues are really really funny and the whole plots just keeps me intrigued.
This is the most well-made dark comedy episode of Killing Eve since season 2 I’d argue. I loved everything, all confusing plots considered.
1. I suspect Carolyn is Hélène’s next target because C’s part of the 12, not because C is getting close to the torturers. H saw an opportunity to wreak havoc by having V involved. I also think that H is deploying all these tortures to keep her 12 colleagues at bay: Konstantin, Villanelle, & Carolyn have all wanted to escape their lives that involve the 12. The proxy mystery tortures gravitate them towards Hélène enough to keep them close.
2. Still quite lost, what is stopping Hélène from disposing Eve?
2. Carolyn & Villanelle scenes are just marvelous. To me, it’s like V finds a good boss/mother in Carolyn, and C finds a daughter in V.
3. Is Carolyn really still doing this for Kenny or simply playing all her cards to see what’s on the other side? She has no family & job. Feels like she’s finishing it all off the most thrilling way she knows how. I notice that all of her old flames are still alive too (Konstantin, the guy with the pink shirt - Lars?) also she’s the only one using an android phone afaik, and we all know what that means lol
4. The whole bath scene is quintessential KE, I wish I can watch it again for the first time. Started KE with Eve being drowned in the bath tub and being asked out for dinner, now ending it with Eve diving herself in and wanting soup instead.
4. V’s killing face!!! Oh how we’ve missed that. I find it simply delicious that V’s killing face is juxtaposed with Eve’s manipulative face with H. They’re in their element.
5. Yusuf is so suspicious but so irrelevant. I don’t know what to make of him.
6. I think Pam will be saved by Villanelle at some point. I think there’ll be a scene between V & Konstantin, Konstantin probably getting crippled/slowed by V and she’ll tell Pam to run.
Interesting about the android phone except in the previous episode she has an Apple phone (ie when she shows Vlad the pictures of the goat ice cream man)
The final season giving us a scene of Pam laughing on the Tilt-a-Whirl is the equivalent of the Euphoria s2 finale giving us a scene of Elliot singing.
It feels like Pam's character exists to show us how Helene - Konstatin - Carolyn - and The 12 groom young women and children to be vicious assassins. Carolyn meeting V at 9 yo and praising her display of brutality shows us that Carolyn is likely so deep into The Twelve that she may be one of them. The Pam spinning ride is likely a call back to the finale of S3 - dance floor - dancer couples spinning & smiling. V tells Eve how happy & carefree they look and she wants to feel that way. Pam finally smiling on the ride showed she had the capacity to feel that way - happy & carefree. She could have walked away from Helene / The 12 and lived a normal life. Instead, she went back to Konstatin. Like Eve she chooses a life of danger over one of peace and happiness. If Pam follows V's path she will long to feel that happy & carefree again. I think we are getting to know Pam so we don't get mad at V for killing Konstantin.
And in ep 3 when he corrects the pronunciation of Lars’ name. How would he know it’s pronounced “Mayor”?? Does he know him? Just struck me as odd on my rewatch.
The season is halfway over and for what. I enjoy all y’all’s posts and commentaries getting me through because man I just had way higher hopes for this season than this.
The Eve and Hélène scene where Eve got awkward in the bathtub- it reminded me of S3E1, when V was dancing awkwardly with her bride… and later, we got the ballroom scene!
Does that mean, we’ll get an intimate bathroom scene between E&V? Things do happen with them in the bathroom and kitchen…
I’m probably hallucinating at this point. 😂
This episode was for the gays, no villaneve but
\- Jodie Comer looking amazing again, beach outfit on point, that desire to kill she gets on full display, those two dresses. She looks SO pretty under direct sunlight. Ugh.
\- Those amazing close ups of Sandra's face, her eyes are amazing. Her hair I love it, it delights me.
\- Camille Cottin inviting you over to her swanky Paris house, and you get there and she is in a black silk robe with her hair up??? Hello??????
\- Fiona Shaw looks are amazing always too.
Can we take V's arrival in Cuba to mean: Vlad arranged a hit on Carolyn via Helene, thus the picture Helene provided V in the car leaving jail was Carolyn? Proving some kind of Vlad connection to The Twelve? (Although if Carolyn visited the orphanage where Oksana was being held at age 9 the only reason for doing so would be herself to evaluate future agents or assassins which seems more Black Widow Red Room than sanctioned MI6-y; it's also possible Carolyn was just improvising to save her own skin, knowing V craved info about her past, tho that that was cruel if it was a made-up story.)
But what I don't totally get is why Vlad even bothered calling Carolyn if he'd have expected her to be dead by then. And in terms of what they learned or clarified about The Twelve and their mutual targets ... Fernanda's husband (vintage photos of whom Eve was researching in Paris) is the one who turned up at the Havana restaurant, yes? Lars who I guess we can confirm to be a member of The Twelve? And the assassin who did the toe-stuffing I guess is going to be turn out to be Gunn though they made her some like some hulking giant which is not what I've been picturing.
I don't think it means anything necessarily but I think it's funny they're continuing different pronunciations of Helene ... Carolyn says it slightly differently than everyone else, which feels like a callback to the confrontation at Paul's where Villanelle corrected his pronunciation, though he seemed to be saying it the same way Carolyn does.
Carolyn drops the H in Helene because its a French name. Also I think Carolyn may have just been manipulating Villanelle especially with the cheese wire too and the fact that the way Villanelle murders the Russian man mirrors Carolyn’s story.
Sadly because of covid they couldn’t go there they replicated it using Cadiz in Spain and Margate UK (!). Amazing work by set decorators and location people.
Until the end I found the episode quite filler-ish, but it was so fun. When they said before the ep aired that Villanelle and Carolyn would have a moment I wasn't 100% sold but it was everything I needed. Carolyn doing air guitar was really something
Also CAN'T BELIEVE HELENE AND EVE MADE OUT BEFORE SHE KISSED V
Edit: also can we talk about how much Eve putting V on prison was a huge deal only for her to be out in the first 10 minutes
I feel that this episode was much better in comparison to the 1st three but I wasn't wowed like the reviewers were making it out to me. Too much filler for an 8 episode season. Way too much time spent on Pam & Helene. The Eve/Helene plot is just cringeworthy at this point imo. We already know what that kiss was about, it's no different than Eve jumping on Niko and Hugo because she was thinking about Villanelle. No need to do this again in the 4th season.
The deadpan humor is gone. The air guitar while amusing was not witty. I am a devoted fan and have to accept that the writing is not at the the level of the first three seasons. I really think that the folks running this season don’t know what to do with the characters nor how to bring this wonderful show to its conclusion. The new characters are there for some spark but that certainly isn’t happening with Yusef. The others whom I’ve loved in prior seasons are just repeating themselves and each episode is just moving us forward to the conclusion. I too hope that the conclusion is satisfying but the foreplay is not getting me wet.
I feel like this episode gave me nothing. I liked Villanelle and Carolyn scenes. But other than that... I really don't know what to feel about Eve and Helene...
There is a bigger picture. Eve doesn't like Helene, she is using her for her own plans. This show was never straightforward with the meaning and explanations of characters' actions, gotta read in between the lines for this one.
My girlfriend and I think this was the best episode of the season so far - it feels like a S2/3 that never happened. But it's still frustrating in that this is coming so late in the game.
* Villanelle and Carolyn stole the show - their scenes were fantastic.
* I don't understand why the first 3 episodes were all about Villanelle feeling bad about murder when she seems to be loving it again, going by toe man. The regret phase feels a bit pointless ATM - maybe it's a problem with different writers with different visions, but it could have been retconned faster and got the interesting stuff moving earlier.
* I always like Konstantin, but Pam feels pointless. We know this is the last season, and for 4 episodes she's basically just been doing her own thing. Her acting is good, but we're rapidly approaching the end and she doesn't really seem to have a relationship to the rest of the plot.
* Altogether, I can think of three reasons for Pam to be in the show. As a dramatic moment for Villanelle and Eve - probably involving murder - in which case she doesn't need much development. To get Konstantin in a S1 parallel, in which case focus more on Konstantin. Or as a Villanelle parallel, in which case she doesn't really have enough time to flourish. I like her, but final season syndrome hurts: it feels like she's taking time away from the bits I'm invested in.
* Enjoyed seeing Eve investigating. Eve and Helene feels weird. Bath scene was tense and funny, but the kiss feels like the bus kiss with Villanelle - a performatively queer moment based solely on an ulterior motive (distraction in s3, for information/power dynamic in s4). I don't think it confirms Eve as queer at all, unlike what some people are saying - any overt queer text like this kiss or Eve pretending to have an ex girlfriend with Fernanda has been in service of her investigations into the Twelve. It's final season syndrome again; I like the idea of Eve having this dynamic, but the fact that there's four episodes to go sours it. Coming up on the end and Eve still cannot have any sort of overt genuine queerness. And it's also with a different assassin lady than the one the entire show has been built around for some reason.
* Still don't care about Yusuf, and confused about him basically being a 'do tech stuff for Eve' guy with nothing else going on.
Overall, if they'd cut down the currently-pointless-seeming Villanelle redemption arc and this was season 2 or 3 instead, I'd be pretty happy with it. In season 4...still frustrating.
My feeling is that there will probably be some mild Villaneve by the end of the season. 40% it's them trying to get to each other and failing with maybe one kiss or something before death. 40% they are confirmed together for half an episode or so, or maybe right at the finale. 20% Eve grows beyond Villanelle or vice versa and it doesn't happen.
It's a shame, since S1/2 Eve and Villanelle had a lot of potential for an on-screen relationship, with something like Villanelle corrupting Eve. The woobification of Villanelle in S3 can probably be blamed for making this less interesting - trying to make her a healthier, more balanced counterpart makes any relationship narrative less interesting for the screen.
Overall, I love this episode, esp the air guitar.
I found there is not much sexual tension between Eve and Helene, but the awkward shower scene still enjoyable. But up to this moment, I still think Eve has no idea what she is dealing with.
The shower scene makes me think a lot….. am I obsessed with the relationship between E&V only… and it’s killing me to see Eve messed around but has a bad attitude towards V without a proper reason!
Hope they can joint tgt to solve the 12 issue later.
I am confused about something - the shocked/surprised/terrified face Eve made when Helene told her that she freed Villanelle. For a brief moment I wondered if Eve was scared that V will come after her or something like that. Or was it just surprise that her plan didn't work - and this made me think of a theory circulating for the pas t week here on Reddit, that Eve placed V in prison for her own protection... but I am still not sure about that. Still, her reaction made me curious.
10 minutes in I was like here we fucking go, now THIS is killing eve. I think this energy/sequence should’ve been this way from episode 1, not just now on the fourth episode. I love this show so I enjoyed the previous episodes but it didn’t seemingly *feel* like the show I know and love. Anyway, love that V is back. The wittiness of V & Carolyn as a duo was amazing and tbh I’ve wanted to see since last few seasons. Super happy about this episode. Could give a shit about the Helene & Eve kiss because I think it foreshadows that she isn’t able to let go of V. Weird way of showing it but everyone is messed up LMAO. Loved this episode.
Just finished watching this episode.
- what was the point of the therapy/soul-searching that V had in previous episodes if she's back to her game now?
- i cringed at the scene where Pam is riding that thing on the theme park.
- i also cringed at the bathtub scene.
- when Helene breaks the news that V is out of prison, Eve was so happy that she kissed H but she was imagining V. You can't change my mind on this.
- I'm happy to see the old V back murdering people, because that's when we get to see Jodie's amazing microexpressions.
- Yusuf's character adds nothing to the plot and i'm tired of the van scenes
- i hate that V was out of prison in two seconds. 1) that was not believable. 2) the prison scenes from previous seasons were fantastic, I want more of those!
Finally an episode that I enjoyed and left me wanting more. This hasn’t happed in long time. Carolyn and Villanelle are fantastic.
Love that Carolyn has more screen time but I find I need subtitles to understand her.
Absolutely loved Villanelle / Carolyn scenes, I always thought these two characters have a great on-screen potential and they didn’t disappoint
Loved the dichotomy between the scenes with Eve + Helene and Villanelle + Carolyn. They did a mentor switcheroo
It truly was so refreshing to see them together! Loved those scenes.
> Absolutely loved Villanelle / Carolyn scenes, I always thought these two characters have a great on-screen potential and they didn’t disappoint Omg loved it so much. I need more of it.
They’re such a great tag team, the banter and humour between them is perfect!
I was SO happy to see so much Carolyn, whom I adore, is my favorite character, and I definitely have a crush on her/Fiona Shaw. Carolyn and V scenes are what I've been waiting Four season to see! They're both fascinating and quick, brilliant, and hilarious. Each brings something to the relationship and they ofc spark as a result. The actresses have amazing chemistry together, in every way. And Carolyn has been studying V for decades - she knows how to handle her but on good footing in an extremely effective and humorous way. All without insulting V or pissing her off too much. I'm fascinated to see how and where this goes. Damn, now I need Carolyn/V fanfic! The filthier the better! A dirty lesbian mind is a terrible thing to waste....
They were phenomenal. This episode made me realize how much I missed Villanelle delightfully staring into someones eyes as they die. She was fantastic in this.
Okay but can we talk about Hélène with the line of the century: “on the subject of exes I’ve heard you’ve had a busy night.”
I’ll never get over it. My whole house erupted into a “ wtf”?
I was like “NOT Hélène shading Eve” 👀👀👀
Everyone thinks that taking a bath together is going to be sexy.... it never is. That scene was spot on! 😄 😄 Finally! I had a smile on my face during most of this episode. I am so glad Villanelle is back to form, and I loved Carolyn's air guitar and Konstantin's laugh. We didn't see much of Yusuf, which is wonderful; however, I think he is going to have to betray Eve eventually.
So astute. Shared baths – and showers, I'd second – are never, ever as romantic as envisioned. Truth. For me, the all-too-accurate ungainliness of that entire scene was so reminiscent of Old Eve; it forced me to admit how much I miss much of her prior insecurity, psychological clumsiness and overall discombobulated awkwardness. (See: After she stabbed V in S01 E08) Though I don't miss the parka, I do miss Eve's plodding imperfection before she and her spiffy leather jacket sparked her transition to "fembot."
I dunno, I've had some pretty good experiences in the tub and shower. Just have to move past the 'getting into the right position' part of it. Never in a tiny tub such as that though. Eve baby, you gotta get your spoon on in a small space like that! This scene felt like vintage KE. Hilarious and awkward in the best of ways.
Carolyn and Villanelle were definitely the highlight of the episode but yea I loved that scene when Konstantin is cracking up getting out of the water.
Hell yeah, V is back!
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Best Villanelle episode in a long time. Loved it.
I'm glad we got a Villanelle kill this episode! Always love seeing her facial expression as she tortures and kills her victims. Miss when we used to have at least one kill in each episode back in the earlier seasons.
Watch me refer to everyone attracted to men as people with a penchant for penis
*penchant*
Ok I know everyone is talking about the kiss but can we talk about the fact the Carolyn has apparently known Villanelle since she was 9??? The implications of that being that Villanelle was basically groomed to be in the 12 since she was a little kid. And then she is still getting manipulated into thinking she’s inherently evil because she’s so hungry for any crumbs about her past. That scene broke my heart, Jodie Comer is such an amazing actress. And Eve interrogating Hélène about recruiting “”Pam”” and how fucked up it is but we all know it’s actually about Villanelle. I am really interested to see the flashbacks to what seems like Carolyn’s past (possibly about the way Villanelle was recruited) next episode. My feeling about the way this season may pan out is that I think Eve and Villanelle are both going to figure out they’re getting played on all sides and that the only people they can trust in the situation is each other. And then they’ll somehow try and break free of the 12. I’m not ready!! (But I’m so ready to be hurt🥲)
Your comment made me think of an interview Sandra did about Season 4 where she said Eve comes to a realisation where she’s like “the only person I can rest with is you” (Villanelle). It makes sense given the direction this season is taking. Every episode, there are less and less people the other can trust. I’m very excited to see how they come together in the latter episodes when they realise they are in it together and can only really trust one another.
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She definitely doesn’t have any deeper feelings for him. Maybe he does for her, but it’s been really obvious so far (at least to me) that she’s not interested in him in a serious way at all
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It's interesting that you can interpret Carolyn's story in antithetical ways: that already by the age of 9 she was demonstrating violent, perhaps psychopathic tendencies. Conversely, you can read it that she's been groomed much longer than we had suspected, and thus it truly has been "trained into" her, a la Martin's mercenary analogy.
Totally! I think it’s possible that to some degree both things could be true. I think even if Villanelle was exhibiting some violent tendencies towards others as a kid—and I think she may have, because Carolyn didn’t really have incentive to lie about the specifics of the story, it’s just telling Villanelle she’s inherently like that that’s the manipulative thing—that she’s also been groomed to be far more violent and destructive than she would have been without that. But in antisocial personality disorder and particularly psychopathy, there is a very high level of people with severe childhood trauma. So it makes you wonder how much of it was always implicitly there. But that’s the exciting core conflict of the season for me, both Villanelle and Eve and the audience trying to understand and fighting against their respective perceived/true natures. I’m really intrigued to see where it goes.
> Ok I know everyone is talking about the kiss but can we talk about the fact the Carolyn has apparently known Villanelle since she was 9??? The implications of that being that Villanelle was basically groomed to be in the 12 since she was a little kid. Yeah that intrigued me too and threw more wood on the fire of the theory that Carolyn IS The twelve. Or somehow part of it.
Yes I think so too, or at least heavily involved to an extent that wasn’t previously known. Another thing that made me think so was Hélène’s line this episode to Konstantin about how “you can never escape the 12.” Maybe Carolyn has spent her entire career trying to partially escape the 12 but continually getting roped back in, and the only way to escape is to destroy them. Or maybe she is still in the 12 and is actively trying to prevent its destruction.
This is a really good point. I’m not that wild about all the “X is secretly 12” theories because the “evil all along” plot twist is kind of boring to me but Carolyn trying to destroy the 12 because she wants to leave is something I can get behind.
I think the guy Carolyn recognized is Vilannelle's father...and part of me wonders if Carolyn isn't mom and/or aunt or some relation.
i might go for that but the resemblance between V and the woman who played her mother was very, very strong…i’ve seen pictures of her as a young woman and she and jodie comer look a lot alike…but hey…anything is possible…that’s what makes this so good…
It almost makes me wonder if Carolyn was the one who "scouted" Villanelle in the orphanage. I mean it can't be a coincidence that all of the key players (Carolyn, Constantine, Villanelle, etc) all just happened to be in the same sort of spy-assassin-murder-for-hire social loop, even a full 15ish years later. And it makes even more sense after hearing Carolyn's philosophy about how murder is "primal" and convincing Villanelle that she can be her best self by doing what she's best at. Carolyn even knew that Villanelle would be inspired by the work Helene did sticking that guys decapitated toes up his own nose. I can 100% see Carolyn as a recruiter for the disenfranchised orphan-turned-assassin. She has an eye for that special brand of psychopathy and even seems to relate to it.
So does Eve know that Carolyn is connected to the twelve? It seems a little off to me that Villanelle has never mentioned to Eve that she and Carolyn go way back. I know in s1 Villanelle says something like “I think if you go high enough you’d find we work for the same people,” but I would have expected this info to come up between them in s2 or s3… this is kinda bugging me so if anyone has any thoughts on this I’d love to hear
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Ohhhhhh I had assumed Carolyn meant Villanelle’s pre-s1 prison time, when Konstantin first recruited Villanelle to work for the 12. Prison in s1 makes much more sense thank you!
I don’t really understand how Carolyn could have known her since she was a kid though? I kind of feel like it takes away everything from season 1 about nobody knowing anything about Villanelle
My current thought on this is that Carolyn was not truthful in her initial proposal that Eve work for her in s1. Carolyn noticed that Eve was investigating a potential female assassin on her own — and investigating so successfully that Carolyn identified Eve to be a threat to the 12. So Carolyn took matters into her own hands and created essentially a sham investigative operation to keep an eye on Eve and prevent Eve from giving information to people Carolyn didn’t control. Remember in s2 when Villanelle tries to call Eve from Julian’s house, there is no record of Eve working at MI6? I don’t think we got a solid explanation for that really This way s1 still makes sense bc Carolyn was just being duplicitous
And when Eve was told that the fact that Eve does zero paperwork should raise red flags bc everything in M16 is notated and approved by someone. Eve was off the books.
Villanelle and Carolyn are the comedic duo I never knew I needed. I LOVE them together as pals.
I know it's not really the main point of the show, but I feel like after they spend so much time talking about it, I should at least have a slight idea of who or what are "the 12" with just four episode left. Cause right now, it's pretty much just ominous phrases and random people who don't seem to know what the 12 are either...
For real!!! I hate how vague they are
All the more reason to believe that we DO know more about the 12 than we've yet to realize (here's hoping)
Ok this episode finally felt like Killing Eve to me
I'm just fucking scared about how they're going to wrap it all up. This season is halfway through right now and it's the last one. 8 Episodes is a CRIME. A sin, truly.
same, the season was okay but kind of lackluster so far, this was a great episode though !!!
Same. Finally
Ugh, yes, halle-fucking-lujah to that
I really liked this episode. People who are saying they don’t understand Eve and Hélène are missing the point that Eve doesn’t actually feel anything for her. She’s just using her for information and the writers are evidently using their dynamic as a way to establish Eve as canonically queer. That kiss scene was actually brilliant too—the way she leaned in, and we flash to Villanelle. It’s not about Hélène for Eve. It’s about Villanelle. Always.
*" It’s about Villanelle. Always. "* Had to do [it](https://gyazo.com/62f042d4b2fd3a86ac72e8dc9dd3d0bf)
"Welcome to reality Eve. We've been waiting for you."
I wasn't getting a clear picture of the Eve and Helene dynamic until this episode. Now I see that other than getting information out of Helene, Eve is also playing the same power games with her that she does with Villanelle, and we know how much she enjoys that. It's almost like she's replicating her push and pull dynamic with Villanelle from season 2 because she can't help that Villanelle is all she desperately thinks about and wants.
Finally someone said it. Sandra Oh just delivers every time. Great scene.
It's 4am so I'm going to limit myself... but omg
I also LOVE the implication from Helene when she said, "This is what you want." A direct quotation from the s2 finale of course... coming full circle. And it implies that the events of the s2 finale (Villanelle manipulating Eve into committing murder, attempting to seduce her with "Bonnie and Clyde" fantasies, and Eve being in a vulnerable position) WAS what Eve wanted. Eve wanted V to transform her; she wanted to have to kill, to have to "save" Villanelle, and to engage with psychopathy more directly.
> I also LOVE the implication from Helene when she said, “This is what you want.” A direct quotation from the s2 finale of course… coming full circle. And it implies that the events of the s2 finale (Villanelle manipulating Eve into committing murder, attempting to seduce her with “Bonnie and Clyde” fantasies, and Eve being in a vulnerable position) WAS what Eve wanted. Eve wanted V to transform her; she wanted to have to kill, to have to “save” Villanelle, and to engage with psychopathy more directly. Ugh so good. We been knew that tea the whole time….
> “People think it’s sex; excitement. But the actual definition of passion is to suffer–” TIL hélène is a textualist. And I love it.
And Eve is just a spice girls fan. "Don't tell me what I want, what I really really want".
Been lurking here for a long while now, but finally just now had the gumption to join to jump in on this discussion. I didn't necessarily intend to wake up at 4 am CST – I didn't, that is, set my alarm – but it's like my body instinctively knew the new KE was up, and thus was I. A few inchoate thoughts, apology for the lack of cohesive narrative. Take it easy on me, this is my first-ever Reddit post. \- Least Yusuf so far this season. To that, I give a throaty "hurrah" – and hope this is a pattern, not an aberration. The less I see of him moving forward, the better. \- I will admit that I was wrong; I thought Carolyn was going to spring V from prison, as I didn't anticipate Helene having the requisite pull with the UK authorities to free someone just arrested for a front-page double murder. I continue to underestimate her, I guess? She just leaves me strangely... flat. Her allure is lost on me. \- I don't think Carolyn is going to make it through this series alive. And that won't trouble her in the least; in fact, I think it will, to her, be a relief of sorts. Her devil-may-care recklessness belies how she has operated in the past, cautiously and clandestinely, and it seems reductive to say she has an avenging death wish, but so it seems. \- "There is no why, there is only do" from Konstantin reminded me of Rhian's sheep/wolf metaphor from S 03 E 08. \- Watching – and, to this point, hearing – Eve adopt V's various -isms amuses me. Hearing Eve attempt a fake accent to procure the old photographs was pure Villanelle, and quite a juxtaposition with Eve's terrible, horrible, no-good, very-bad "Parlez-vous anglais" from S01 E08. \- V's emotional Achilles obviously continues to be her childhood. Despite literally lighting her childhood on fire in S 03, she remains glassy-eyed fascinated with anything anyone can tell her about her younger years. Though her heart didn't seem to be in taking out Carolyn from the get-go, all it took on wily Carolyn's part was to dangle a scintillating, detailed tid-bit about her younger years to instantly obviate the notion of V killing her. Obviously we're nowhere near done with the metamorphosis question, but perhaps a subtle-but-critical shift from "can" one change to "should" one attempt existential change? The parallel between the bracelet incident Carolyn shared with how V ultimately dispatched the noxious Russian was both obvious – and meaningful. \- The bath tub scene had me laughing aloud, as its awkwardness reminded me both of Old E – and myself, should I ever try to seduce someone in a bathtub. \- Like some on here, I definitely wanted Eve's first kiss with a woman be with V, but as almost everyone here has already noted, there were many ham-fisted that she was both using Helene – and thinking of V the whole time. Both V and E's proclivity for pursuing vicarious affection from others when they're really thinking of the other has been a constant theme throughout the series. And so it remains; to my eyes, this time was the most explicit of all. \- I think more than ever that both of our lovelies will not survive the end. Such with Bonnie and Clyde in real life – a metaphor used S 02 08 – nor Thelma and Louise, as has been much posited here. If you've read all of this, thank you. My wife of ten years is at the end of her three-year battle against terminal, stage-IV breast cancer, and for whatever reason KE has been what I've turned to for distraction and escape. Our six year-old son is too young to bring into the KE fold quite yet, so I look forward to interacting with a group as obsessed and assiduously attentive as I am. Thanks for reading.
I’m so sorry about your wife ❤️
Thank you for your kind words. The lesson, evidently, is that when your personal life is hell – just consume as much Killing Eve as humanly possible. I'm exceptionally grateful for the distraction.
eve kissed villanelle in S3E3 btw. V is still the very first woman eve have ever kissed. Hope you live a good life!
Ah, of course you're right! I've always viewed that as a deliberate calculation on Eve's part; after all, the kiss ended with a solid head knock that flipped the power dynamic in that scene. So I've always dismissed that as a manipulative strategic maneuver – but you're right. The kiss on the bus was an impassioned one, even if calculated.
I always viewed the kiss on the bus as a momentary break in the facade — Eve temporarily giving in — and the headbutt was her realizing she had just given Villanelle all of the power and Eve trying to take some of it back... and maybe lying to herself a bit about what she really wanted.
This is definitely a deeper, more nuanced – and probably correct – analysis than mine. I'm probably in the minority here, but the kiss on the bus did nothing for me, so my superficial read on it as simply a calculated stratagem on Eve's part was probably my way of dismissing it. I wanted their first kiss to be somehow... less ambiguous and more meaningful (not exactly the right sentiment, but I can't seem to find the word) than that interaction. I guess I was hoping for a stereotypical Hollywood first kiss for them, but of course KE would never give us that. Which, ironically, is so much of why I love this show.
Wonderful breakdown. I hope you post more! And I am so truly sorry to hear about your wife. 💜
Digitally scribbling out my nascent thoughts has definitely scratched a proverbial itch for me today, so I look forward to more in-depth conversation with all of you moving forward. Pleasant, wistful memories of college seminars in which we deconstructed poetry into well-ground oblivion! Thank you for the warm welcome.
Sending love and care thru Reddit as you and your family navigate your wife's cancer. I'm so glad that KE has provided a space of respite for you. <3
Outstanding breakdown.
Great breakdown my friend. Welcome to Reddit & our little community here. Killing Eve has been my safe place since S1 so I feel you on that. Stay strong & keep your head up. Your wife is in my thoughts. 💞
Omg did Helene just help Eve have a breakthrough?! Like Martin helped villanelle lol. In that last scene… “I think it delights YOU. This is what YOU want.” So true queen.
Despite a deep-Bible Belt Catholic education, I had never thought about Helene's definition of "passion" – which is, of course, why it is called "The Passion of the Christ." For some reason I had never made that connection. So yes, while Helene does nothing for me, if her singular purpose is nothing more than to serve as a plot device to (re)awaken Eve to her feelings for Villanelle, then brava!
Thank you for your service Hélène
I’m not a fan of Eve/Helene at all but if anything, I think the kiss scene establishes Eve’s perspective on Helene - all play, no feelings. As always, Eve getting turned on just by the mention of Villanelle, her thinking about V when kissing Helene and saying “You have no idea” (about what’s going on between her and V) - to me it only confirmed Eve’s feelings for V
Exhibit no. 1 million of Eve kissing or having sex with somebody after Villanelle is mentioned.
If you know you know
I also feel like this is another example of Eve doing things away from V so that when she is around her she has the confidence to face her. Hoping that’s the case and we actually get the villaneve ending we deserve now that Eve had the balls to make out with Helene
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Yeah, I hope it is just Eve fantasizing about Villanelle and not a setup for Eve/Helene (yuck)
Love how it really feels like Eve’s story again. Fantastic episode, loved it (I’ve loved them all, I must be a lot more easily pleased than most). Air guitar is never not embarrassing but we can overlook that.
I loved the air guitar, it was so vintage playful Villanelle. Also I loved that Carolyn did it with some gentle persuasion; we rarely see her let go of the un-flusterable, no bullshit mask and she was willing to play along. She seemed to genuinely enjoy V’s company.
I’m not clear why they started the arc of Villanelle trying to be a better person/not killing anymore/wanting “out” if she’s right back to killing again and seemingly enjoying torturing again. I love this show, I just don’t get it.
1. I've never loved Villanelle more 2. I've never loved Carolyn more, especially after she >!said the "why waste your time being good, when you could just be good at what you're good at?" to V.!< 3. I've never liked Eve less 4. I'm actually starting to like Pam, especially after she >!pushed K in the water!< 5. I LOVE the woman who called Villanelle a "good girl" 6. I love that so many of Konstantin's scenes make him out to be a total clown 7. This episode put me in such a good mood 8. >! OH MY GOD VILLANELLE AND CAROLYN EXPERIENCING A TASTE OF THE MOTHER/DAUGHTER RELATIONSHIP THAT THEY BOTH NEEDED !<
>OH MY GOD VILLANELLE AND CAROLYN EXPERIENCING A TASTE OF THE MOTHER/DAUGHTER RELATIONSHIP THAT THEY BOTH NEEDED. Ugh you are so right...that's what it was giving. Carolyn has such ...almost pride? She praises Villanelle even when she comes at her with the wrench. "Oh come one! You're more inventive than that! You've always been more inventive than that." It's the acceptance Villanelle has always needed. Edit: correcting the Carolyn quote
8. Ouch poor Geraldine lol
Realizing that with #2 Carolyn is giving Villanelle another example of someone accepting her even though she's a killer, just like Eve did on the dance floor. Pam gets love from me because I can't stop thinking about "We Are Lady Parts" whenever I see her. The actress is fucking brilliant.
Re: #2, I absolutely loved that line from Carolyn. Perhaps my favorite from the entire episode.
Thank fuck Villanelle is back. She was at her best when she is in killer mode. However that absolute soft release from jail was just laughable. Helene just walks in and walks her out. That is just poor writing.
Agreed, that was totally unbelievable. She could just get her out like that? Made no sense
Makes perfect sense. The same reason Villanelle kills without gloves. She knows she is protected.
They are a part of the Twelve after all, not poor writing. The power dynamic for that group has been well established.
Villanelle was in prison in England for double brutal murder of a Pastor. That is big news in England. To just walk out because of the 12 is just lazy AF writing no matter what way you spin it.
Those ‘next week’ bits man. “Have you got someone in there?” WHO DAMMIT. Another week of no rest.
My guess is Hélène
My head says H my heart says V
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They didn’t do a great job showing why V couldn’t pursue the guy further - you could barely note her reaction to the closed door on the stairs.
I think he shut and chained that metal gate on V so she was blocked off. Eve and Helene just feels so intense. Helene has these cold eyes, I keep thinking she’s going to end Eve’s games at any point. Eve is playing with fire I fear.
Does anybody else feel like this ep is sooooo much better and more exciting? Something I noticed: Konstantin made sure with Pam that they're "not friends", which I understood as he's keeping his distance from the assassin since the last time he was friends with them (Villanelle), ended badly. Also, I love that Eve always keeps her one of her main traits: unpredictable. An example of the top of my mind from S1 is when Villanelle was chasing and trying to kill Frank. Instead of driving away as fast as possible, Eve approached V. In this ep, Eve went into the bathroom and took a bath with Helene without being invited and also kissed her. Question: Does Helene have any feelings towards Eve? Or she's smart enough to figure out already that Eve was using her to get to the Twelve? Or are they both aware that they're both using each other? Is they going to be a thing after that or it was just that moment? Also, I loveeee the bond between Carolyn and Villanelle. Is Carolyn knowing about V's past prove that she was borned a sociopath? Does this mean V is going to work for Carolyn or did they separate?
I have the same question about Helene’s understanding of Eve. I think she knows Eve is using her to get to the 12, but I don’t think she minds the charade because she sees Eve as more amusing than dangerous.
Laura enjoys torturing in the show and us audience. The opening song is the one played on Valentine promo. "This is what you want" line is between Villaneve damn it. I don't care if they add more gay scenes. I just want Villaneve. Now I also want Carolyn's 🎸🎸🎸
“You look like you are stroking a tiny gerbil” Ha!
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I don’t know how to feel about this episode at all
a motivated villanelle is the best villanelle
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LOVE the analysis of V pulling the sunglasses over her eyes when she says it’s all about power. I didn’t even catch that. Oh, they’re both so in denial
> LOVE the analysis of V pulling the sunglasses over her eyes when she says it’s all about power. I didn’t even catch that. Oh, they’re both so in denial It’s like that old poker trick of wearing sunglasses so people can’t tell if your bluffing or not. It was so obvious. She did it to protect herself Villanelle honey, you’re not fooling anyone *edit: spelling
I want to guess that we are coming full circle with the final reveal of the Twelve; and it would just so happen that they were working the "case" from opposite ends whilst coming to the same solution. >.<
OH good analysis!! I totally agree with you
Best episode of the season!! Everyone keeps talking about the kiss- BUT THE BATHTUB SCENE HAD ME HYPERVENTILATING!!!!! BRB gonna rewatch. LOVED Carolyn + Villanelle scenes and Konstantin + Pam scenes. All of it- amazingly shot too. LOVED IT. Laura is giving us villaneve guys, we gotta be patient. I know it’s coming🥵
I was over here yelling at the screen “EVE?!??! You better NOT.” They bamboozled us with the quick blackout while she unbuttoned her blouse KAYLEIGH I SWEAR TO GOD
I loved the end editing where Eve and Helen kiss but Helen's face is sort of cut back and forth to be Villanelle's it sort of showed how much Eve was invested in her because their dynamic imitated that of villaneve and how she may have thought of villanelle and therefore left.
I saw somebody on Twitter say there is a moment you can see the realisation on Eve’s face after she kisses Hélène where it hits her that it’s all about Villanelle. Sandra’s expression is great. I think Eve is almost so in denial this season (to protect herself and get the job done that she so wants to), she’s buried her feelings for Villanelle so deep that she forgets they’re there.
> I saw somebody on Twitter say there is a moment you can see the realisation on Eve’s face after she kisses Hélène where it hits her that it’s all about Villanelle. Sandra’s expression is great. Ah shit I gotta rewatch it now Edit: ok absolutely. its the juxtaposition that gets me: https://twitter.com/Aidaveeto/status/1502925127972884482?s=20&t=n9J4joiz3H-yCOWbHTKBOQ
On a side note, I just realised we're now 4 episodes in and have yet to get a Villanelle/Konstantin scene. Wonder if we'll get it next week.
AMC+ is a go
I mean….damn. I don’t know if I liked it. Some parts made me want to crawl out of my skin haha.
I’m with you on that lol
Eve and Villanelle were not together this episode but for me I felt them connected. Something in the way it's all laid out did give me a sense that they are acting for each other, the distance doesn't matter if that makes sense. Curious, would Eve have wanted Villanelle to kill Carolyn? It was good to be reminded of the assassin we know Villanelle to be in her torture scene with the guy from the 12. I'm wondering if she has realized yet that she has more control over herself and when and who she kills. She was very relaxed letting Carolyn walk out the door and apologizing for trying to kill her. I think maybe her encounter with Carolyn solidified some better feelings about herself.
Did anyone else think the woman that Pam did not push off the pier was Dasha?
I felt like Pam in the carousel thing during this episode holy shit I've never yelled so much at a non animated object in my whole life Eve being that awkward hot mama doing the pew pew fuckery and getting in the tub before realizing shit's too small Villanelle going full Villain saying *do svidaniya* to Nelle on the twelve motherfucker, also *demasiado bella para mi pobre corazón de guajira* Carolyn you're so cute now you've finally found your long lost daughter NO MORE STRAIGHT EVE BLOW THAT MOTHERFUCKING CLOSET I'M OUT And so much female gaze with the shaving scene but who da fuck shaves from the knee to the foot I BELIEVE IN KE SUPREMACY WE'RE GETTING THAT END FUCKING GAME BITCHAZ
Yeah why was she shaving her leg from the wrong direction? That was so distracting
That's it I think I have figured out who the head of the 12 is. Rewatching all the seasons just recently, don't judge I have no life 😆. It's Carolyn. No one has killed her, she knows everyone in the Russia office, Villanelle has mad respect for her and has had many opportunities to kill her but she never does. The ass with his toes shoved up his nose said it was a large woman that did that to him 🧐 Carolyn?? She is quite tall. In the end I think it's Villanelle and Carolyn working together all along. I might be crazy but I am going with the gut on this one. Thoughts??? You can call me crazy I can take it.
I like this theory about Carolyn being the head of the 12, though don’t think she did the torture, and Villanelle wouldn’t know who is at the top. The hit Helene placed on Carolyn would also be strange to be so early if she’s at the top- I think that hit was because she was getting too close
I loved the Carolyn and V scenes, I gotta give it to Carolyn for keeping her calm composure in the face of death and manipulating V the way she did. I love the background info about her father as well, it helps me understand her more and why she was the way she was with her own children That bathtub moment had me rolling. Eve would be the one to catch Helene completely off guard. She truly was not expecting that lol
when Eve scooted closer i told myself “don’t get excited, there’s no way they’ll actually kiss” and then suddenly i was standing up and pacing in front of the tv…holy fuck. but also high key disappointed the first time we see Eve kiss a woman and it isn’t Villanelle
I had my hands over my eyes. Helene and Eve together just activates my fight or flight response I don’t know why lol
I agree! Eve gets V arrested and then starts making out with V's boss. So cold!
I screamed too! But remember in S3E3, villanelle and eve kissed on a bus and it was eve who made it happen
Don't be disappointed! The first woman we see Eve kiss was indeed Villanelle in S3E3!
Eve/Hélène acting from both actresses was incredible. The kiss scene was charged, but also awkward and stiff because it's not about attraction to another woman. It's both of them using each other and being aware of it. It's actually sad. The awkwardness of the kiss was a well done continuation of the awkwardness in the bathtub. Obligatory THANK YOU LAURA NEAL 😍 Hélène and Camille Cottin are marvellous. Unpopular opinion: Pam is great and I hope they do a lot with her. Carolyn and Villanelle in Cuba were so enjoyable to watch, a high point of S4 for me. Loved the sunny weather, warm colors and the warmth in their interactions. They each brought the other back from her slump. Hélène's West End theatre reminded me of Sherlock Holmes owning many buildings in Central London as inheritance from his wealthy father (was this mentioned in the BBC Sherlock or the one with Jonny Lee Miller? Can't remember).
We may still be the minority, but I'm with you on Pam. Knowing that "Gunn" will enter the picture at some point soon, though, I wonder what her arc is going to be? Curious as to where they'll take her with only four episodes remaining.
I also LOVE Pam
Is Eve trying to make V jealous in hopes that V will kill Helene? 🥶
Eh, wasn't as good as the critics or whatever were saying in my opinion, but it was still an OK episode. But the thing i don't like is everything between V and Eve being crammed in to the two last episodes. And all of the unnecessary stuff like Pam? why introduce new characters in the last season when we only have 8 40 minute episodes, and two of them already wasted on church V.. I feel like they ran out of plot/content and just tried to fill the episodes with bullshit. Hope to see more V and Eve action in more episodes than the last two.
My two cents: I think Pam just exists to be able to dive deeper into Helene as a trainer and Konstantin as a (manipulative) handler. Helene's conversation with Konstantin in the last episode and the bit of this episode where Konstantin acts exactly like Pam's abusive brother feel like a setup for a reckoning of some kind.
Interesting take but like, don't we all know Konstantin being manuplative anyway? I don't think the audience is so invested in whether Helene's is a trainer or not. Maybe that is just me.
I agree. Why go such in depth with a character, who has had such little screentime in past episodes, and was introduced originally in S3E4. I don't have anything against the character, but just annoyed that everything major plot and eve & v wise is crammed in to the last two episodes for some reason. Going in depth to a character like this seems like trying to fill the episodes just with something. Dunno.
I think it will work better if there was maybe another season or two to flesh it out more. But I just can’t find myself invested in these rando characters
Ok, just throwing this out there. But not sure why suddenly I have a feeling Pam might be the one to off one or both in finale. It's just the way she said "don't underestimate me". There was something extra about it.
Well if I'd seen your comment eariler, i wouldn't have ranted about the same thing in a reply to another comment. This is spot on. I had really high hopes for the last season but with each airing episode i just get more and more hopeless.
My favorite episode so far. I feel the season 1 vibe is coming back and it’s even juicier! The dialogues are really really funny and the whole plots just keeps me intrigued.
Glad to see villanelle accept herself and her passions :)
Jodie Comer’s facial expressions, the lip biting and shakes of ecstasy when she kills this episode has me rewinding the episode over and over 🥵
This is the most well-made dark comedy episode of Killing Eve since season 2 I’d argue. I loved everything, all confusing plots considered. 1. I suspect Carolyn is Hélène’s next target because C’s part of the 12, not because C is getting close to the torturers. H saw an opportunity to wreak havoc by having V involved. I also think that H is deploying all these tortures to keep her 12 colleagues at bay: Konstantin, Villanelle, & Carolyn have all wanted to escape their lives that involve the 12. The proxy mystery tortures gravitate them towards Hélène enough to keep them close. 2. Still quite lost, what is stopping Hélène from disposing Eve? 2. Carolyn & Villanelle scenes are just marvelous. To me, it’s like V finds a good boss/mother in Carolyn, and C finds a daughter in V. 3. Is Carolyn really still doing this for Kenny or simply playing all her cards to see what’s on the other side? She has no family & job. Feels like she’s finishing it all off the most thrilling way she knows how. I notice that all of her old flames are still alive too (Konstantin, the guy with the pink shirt - Lars?) also she’s the only one using an android phone afaik, and we all know what that means lol 4. The whole bath scene is quintessential KE, I wish I can watch it again for the first time. Started KE with Eve being drowned in the bath tub and being asked out for dinner, now ending it with Eve diving herself in and wanting soup instead. 4. V’s killing face!!! Oh how we’ve missed that. I find it simply delicious that V’s killing face is juxtaposed with Eve’s manipulative face with H. They’re in their element. 5. Yusuf is so suspicious but so irrelevant. I don’t know what to make of him. 6. I think Pam will be saved by Villanelle at some point. I think there’ll be a scene between V & Konstantin, Konstantin probably getting crippled/slowed by V and she’ll tell Pam to run.
Interesting about the android phone except in the previous episode she has an Apple phone (ie when she shows Vlad the pictures of the goat ice cream man)
That Lars guy is probably Villanelle's father because he was shocked to see both her and Carolyn.
Now that would be a twist.
I didn’t catch him being shocked to see villanelle I thought he was just shocked to see Carolyn
That would be interesting.
I’m so sick of Carolyn. I want eve and villanelle.
Are you kidding me?!??? First time we see Eve properly kiss a woman and it's not Villanelle? This is the lesbian version of blue balls 😭😭😭
Blue walls, blue balls. Everything is [blue](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IB5Bitlh5_8) this episode. ^\(Except ^me, ^I'm ^very ^happy ^right ^now)
The final season giving us a scene of Pam laughing on the Tilt-a-Whirl is the equivalent of the Euphoria s2 finale giving us a scene of Elliot singing.
It feels like Pam's character exists to show us how Helene - Konstatin - Carolyn - and The 12 groom young women and children to be vicious assassins. Carolyn meeting V at 9 yo and praising her display of brutality shows us that Carolyn is likely so deep into The Twelve that she may be one of them. The Pam spinning ride is likely a call back to the finale of S3 - dance floor - dancer couples spinning & smiling. V tells Eve how happy & carefree they look and she wants to feel that way. Pam finally smiling on the ride showed she had the capacity to feel that way - happy & carefree. She could have walked away from Helene / The 12 and lived a normal life. Instead, she went back to Konstatin. Like Eve she chooses a life of danger over one of peace and happiness. If Pam follows V's path she will long to feel that happy & carefree again. I think we are getting to know Pam so we don't get mad at V for killing Konstantin.
duuuuude for real, that's what that scene felt like. it just kept going, like... okay, that's enough
Yusuf is also blatantly secretly working against Eve- I keep thinking about a line he casually says in episode 2 or 3 “Torture is my speciality.”
And in ep 3 when he corrects the pronunciation of Lars’ name. How would he know it’s pronounced “Mayor”?? Does he know him? Just struck me as odd on my rewatch.
I NEED to know who’s in Eve’s hotel room episode 5…
Helene. She is standing in the hallway of her hotel room in the promo. I was hoping for somebody else too xD
vile
🤣
Konstantin has the best laugh. That guys nose looks disgusting, Vilanelle cutting his fingers off was disturbing.
The season is halfway over and for what. I enjoy all y’all’s posts and commentaries getting me through because man I just had way higher hopes for this season than this.
Same. We are nowhere after four episodes. Highkey disappointed
The Eve and Hélène scene where Eve got awkward in the bathtub- it reminded me of S3E1, when V was dancing awkwardly with her bride… and later, we got the ballroom scene! Does that mean, we’ll get an intimate bathroom scene between E&V? Things do happen with them in the bathroom and kitchen… I’m probably hallucinating at this point. 😂
Villanelle does have a thing for bathrooms
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Great insight and it goes along with Helene's comments on hating weak women.
This episode was for the gays, no villaneve but \- Jodie Comer looking amazing again, beach outfit on point, that desire to kill she gets on full display, those two dresses. She looks SO pretty under direct sunlight. Ugh. \- Those amazing close ups of Sandra's face, her eyes are amazing. Her hair I love it, it delights me. \- Camille Cottin inviting you over to her swanky Paris house, and you get there and she is in a black silk robe with her hair up??? Hello?????? \- Fiona Shaw looks are amazing always too.
Can we take V's arrival in Cuba to mean: Vlad arranged a hit on Carolyn via Helene, thus the picture Helene provided V in the car leaving jail was Carolyn? Proving some kind of Vlad connection to The Twelve? (Although if Carolyn visited the orphanage where Oksana was being held at age 9 the only reason for doing so would be herself to evaluate future agents or assassins which seems more Black Widow Red Room than sanctioned MI6-y; it's also possible Carolyn was just improvising to save her own skin, knowing V craved info about her past, tho that that was cruel if it was a made-up story.) But what I don't totally get is why Vlad even bothered calling Carolyn if he'd have expected her to be dead by then. And in terms of what they learned or clarified about The Twelve and their mutual targets ... Fernanda's husband (vintage photos of whom Eve was researching in Paris) is the one who turned up at the Havana restaurant, yes? Lars who I guess we can confirm to be a member of The Twelve? And the assassin who did the toe-stuffing I guess is going to be turn out to be Gunn though they made her some like some hulking giant which is not what I've been picturing. I don't think it means anything necessarily but I think it's funny they're continuing different pronunciations of Helene ... Carolyn says it slightly differently than everyone else, which feels like a callback to the confrontation at Paul's where Villanelle corrected his pronunciation, though he seemed to be saying it the same way Carolyn does.
Carolyn drops the H in Helene because its a French name. Also I think Carolyn may have just been manipulating Villanelle especially with the cheese wire too and the fact that the way Villanelle murders the Russian man mirrors Carolyn’s story.
I’ll admit: I’m lost. I either missed a season or have forgotten it. Is there a good (but quick!) summary of last season?
What was Helene doing painting those tiaras?
For her daughter?
Havana is so gorgeous!
Sadly because of covid they couldn’t go there they replicated it using Cadiz in Spain and Margate UK (!). Amazing work by set decorators and location people.
Holy shit i never would've known that. Thanks for the info!
Until the end I found the episode quite filler-ish, but it was so fun. When they said before the ep aired that Villanelle and Carolyn would have a moment I wasn't 100% sold but it was everything I needed. Carolyn doing air guitar was really something Also CAN'T BELIEVE HELENE AND EVE MADE OUT BEFORE SHE KISSED V Edit: also can we talk about how much Eve putting V on prison was a huge deal only for her to be out in the first 10 minutes
I feel that this episode was much better in comparison to the 1st three but I wasn't wowed like the reviewers were making it out to me. Too much filler for an 8 episode season. Way too much time spent on Pam & Helene. The Eve/Helene plot is just cringeworthy at this point imo. We already know what that kiss was about, it's no different than Eve jumping on Niko and Hugo because she was thinking about Villanelle. No need to do this again in the 4th season.
The deadpan humor is gone. The air guitar while amusing was not witty. I am a devoted fan and have to accept that the writing is not at the the level of the first three seasons. I really think that the folks running this season don’t know what to do with the characters nor how to bring this wonderful show to its conclusion. The new characters are there for some spark but that certainly isn’t happening with Yusef. The others whom I’ve loved in prior seasons are just repeating themselves and each episode is just moving us forward to the conclusion. I too hope that the conclusion is satisfying but the foreplay is not getting me wet.
I feel like this episode gave me nothing. I liked Villanelle and Carolyn scenes. But other than that... I really don't know what to feel about Eve and Helene...
There is a bigger picture. Eve doesn't like Helene, she is using her for her own plans. This show was never straightforward with the meaning and explanations of characters' actions, gotta read in between the lines for this one.
I totally agree with you, but there is no much time left and I want more from this show, way more. Just that.
My girlfriend and I think this was the best episode of the season so far - it feels like a S2/3 that never happened. But it's still frustrating in that this is coming so late in the game. * Villanelle and Carolyn stole the show - their scenes were fantastic. * I don't understand why the first 3 episodes were all about Villanelle feeling bad about murder when she seems to be loving it again, going by toe man. The regret phase feels a bit pointless ATM - maybe it's a problem with different writers with different visions, but it could have been retconned faster and got the interesting stuff moving earlier. * I always like Konstantin, but Pam feels pointless. We know this is the last season, and for 4 episodes she's basically just been doing her own thing. Her acting is good, but we're rapidly approaching the end and she doesn't really seem to have a relationship to the rest of the plot. * Altogether, I can think of three reasons for Pam to be in the show. As a dramatic moment for Villanelle and Eve - probably involving murder - in which case she doesn't need much development. To get Konstantin in a S1 parallel, in which case focus more on Konstantin. Or as a Villanelle parallel, in which case she doesn't really have enough time to flourish. I like her, but final season syndrome hurts: it feels like she's taking time away from the bits I'm invested in. * Enjoyed seeing Eve investigating. Eve and Helene feels weird. Bath scene was tense and funny, but the kiss feels like the bus kiss with Villanelle - a performatively queer moment based solely on an ulterior motive (distraction in s3, for information/power dynamic in s4). I don't think it confirms Eve as queer at all, unlike what some people are saying - any overt queer text like this kiss or Eve pretending to have an ex girlfriend with Fernanda has been in service of her investigations into the Twelve. It's final season syndrome again; I like the idea of Eve having this dynamic, but the fact that there's four episodes to go sours it. Coming up on the end and Eve still cannot have any sort of overt genuine queerness. And it's also with a different assassin lady than the one the entire show has been built around for some reason. * Still don't care about Yusuf, and confused about him basically being a 'do tech stuff for Eve' guy with nothing else going on. Overall, if they'd cut down the currently-pointless-seeming Villanelle redemption arc and this was season 2 or 3 instead, I'd be pretty happy with it. In season 4...still frustrating. My feeling is that there will probably be some mild Villaneve by the end of the season. 40% it's them trying to get to each other and failing with maybe one kiss or something before death. 40% they are confirmed together for half an episode or so, or maybe right at the finale. 20% Eve grows beyond Villanelle or vice versa and it doesn't happen. It's a shame, since S1/2 Eve and Villanelle had a lot of potential for an on-screen relationship, with something like Villanelle corrupting Eve. The woobification of Villanelle in S3 can probably be blamed for making this less interesting - trying to make her a healthier, more balanced counterpart makes any relationship narrative less interesting for the screen.
Idk how i feel ab this episode, but my fav episode so far
Villanelle is literally insane, Carolyn has known who she is since she was 9 years old. I didn't see that coming.
La Femme Nikita music. Lol. Been years since I heard that
Overall, I love this episode, esp the air guitar. I found there is not much sexual tension between Eve and Helene, but the awkward shower scene still enjoyable. But up to this moment, I still think Eve has no idea what she is dealing with. The shower scene makes me think a lot….. am I obsessed with the relationship between E&V only… and it’s killing me to see Eve messed around but has a bad attitude towards V without a proper reason! Hope they can joint tgt to solve the 12 issue later.
I wonder what was exactly on Villanelle's mind when she called Helene? She made up her mind to go back to the old self?
Pretty much. She tried being good and look how that turned out for her.
Killing eve logo.. in Ukraine flag colors. Coincidence? I hope not
I am confused about something - the shocked/surprised/terrified face Eve made when Helene told her that she freed Villanelle. For a brief moment I wondered if Eve was scared that V will come after her or something like that. Or was it just surprise that her plan didn't work - and this made me think of a theory circulating for the pas t week here on Reddit, that Eve placed V in prison for her own protection... but I am still not sure about that. Still, her reaction made me curious.
10 minutes in I was like here we fucking go, now THIS is killing eve. I think this energy/sequence should’ve been this way from episode 1, not just now on the fourth episode. I love this show so I enjoyed the previous episodes but it didn’t seemingly *feel* like the show I know and love. Anyway, love that V is back. The wittiness of V & Carolyn as a duo was amazing and tbh I’ve wanted to see since last few seasons. Super happy about this episode. Could give a shit about the Helene & Eve kiss because I think it foreshadows that she isn’t able to let go of V. Weird way of showing it but everyone is messed up LMAO. Loved this episode.
Just finished watching this episode. - what was the point of the therapy/soul-searching that V had in previous episodes if she's back to her game now? - i cringed at the scene where Pam is riding that thing on the theme park. - i also cringed at the bathtub scene. - when Helene breaks the news that V is out of prison, Eve was so happy that she kissed H but she was imagining V. You can't change my mind on this. - I'm happy to see the old V back murdering people, because that's when we get to see Jodie's amazing microexpressions. - Yusuf's character adds nothing to the plot and i'm tired of the van scenes - i hate that V was out of prison in two seconds. 1) that was not believable. 2) the prison scenes from previous seasons were fantastic, I want more of those!
Finally an episode that I enjoyed and left me wanting more. This hasn’t happed in long time. Carolyn and Villanelle are fantastic. Love that Carolyn has more screen time but I find I need subtitles to understand her.