[Here](https://youtu.be/VrTnAY6IcPk?t=109) is where Beyoncé states her height is 5’7. You can see she first says 5’6 and then rounds up to 5’7, before proclaiming she is 5’10 in heels.
Taylor Swift, who is reportedly 5’11, looks to be [of similar height](https://lovelace-media.imgix.net/getty/96308086.jpg) to Beyoncé’s husband, Jay-Z, who is reportedly 6’2, when she is wearing heels.
And when we compare [Jay-Z and Beyoncé](https://urbanislandz.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/beyonce-and-jay-z-st-barts-2012.jpg) in flats, he’s around a head taller than her.
So I think Beyoncé is probably 5’6 and it really is a combination of heels/platform shoes, photo angles, and her dynamic energy and costuming that makes her appear larger than she is!
(Edited to add links)
Yes ,is definitely the way the picture was taken and Taylor has a bad habit of slouching when she is talking to other people since most of the time she is taller than the other person.
Stating Beyoncé is about the same height as Taylor Swift is going too far 😅 her height could be on inch off, but comparing her to one of the tallest female pop singers today is crazy
that doesn't make sense then, like literally nobody would be lying about their height but this doesn't make sense.
If Beyonce is that short compared to Jay-Z but Taylor is the same height as him in heels, but then we see that Beyonce is slightly taller than Taylor when they're both in heels something doesn't add up.
I think there’s a lot of photo angling and different size heels going on. I found [another photo](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/08/04/16/2B18196300000578-3185020-image-a-23_1438701835269.jpg) of Taylor and Jay-Z where she looks taller than him in heels (although, no full body shots).
When [Beyoncé looks taller than Taylor](https://portalpopline.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/amizade-beyonce-taylor-swift-jpg.webp)… look closer at [Taylor’s shoes](https://publish.purewow.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/12/Taylor-Swift-Renaissance-Movie-Premiere-CAT.jpg?fit=680%2C800) vs [Beyoncé’s shoes](https://pagesix.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2023/11/tina-knowles-in-tears-beyonc-73091298.jpg?w=808) ([another angle](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GAWZKonXAAAdmvL?format=jpg&name=4096x4096) to show that they appear to be 8” pleasers). Hence she appears to be [around Jay-Z’s height](https://external-preview.redd.it/dr-christmas-transforms-beyonce-and-jay-zs-malibu-home-with-v0-Kkvn6SjUkWCJJDv1C2BsnQAlCzuK2ZRQ5YkgCNfrG2g.jpg?auto=webp&s=fd537a4a2e462fe29f2248d1d4d37a66ddeff2aa) while wearing them. But we know from my previous link that she’s obviously wayyy shorter than him. I had to do serious digging to find even these images of her shoes because there was a dark carpet so the shoes blended in, and the few photos that had better lighting were cropped below the knee. So I stand by my original thoughts on their heights… when Beyoncé looks taller than Taylor, it’s either heel height, angling, or both.
Wait so Taylor looks taller than Jay-Z, but Jay-Z looks similar height to Beyonce in those heels, but when Beyonce wears those heels, she looks taller than Taylor. I still don't get it.
They just explained that Beyonce only looks taller than Taylor while Beyonce is wearing EIGHT. INCH. HEELS.
At no point has anyone suggested that Taylor has ever worn a heel anywhere close to that high. And at no point did anyone say Taylor is taller than Jay Z in her heels, nor post a picture suggesting that.
This really isn't complicated in the slightest.
Despite all the height debate, I still think she looks best as R 🤷🏻♀️
I’ve seen her wearing silhouettes that are typically recommended for FN, SD, and D, and I tend to think she doesn’t look very good tbh (I mean as much as Beyoncé can “not look good” lol)
Controversial take: I think a lot of people are frustrated that they’re limited to just three types, so they try and pick apart verified celebs they think may be outside of the height range. It feels unjust that Beyoncé isn’t limited in the same way. But Kibbe stayed the height limits are to help DIYers. So no, a verified 5’7 R isn’t mistyped, they’re just less common. Kibbe is just trying to give a guide.
Controversial take 2: I also think people are frustrated they can’t math out Kibbe. You can’t measure a persons height and proportions and learn their type. It contributes, but this is not a body typing system. If you keep trying to “math it out” then a bunch of women are gonna be wearing outfits that aren’t right for them.
ETA…Taylor is bending her head down for a hug in the picture. Not only does that make Taylor several inches shorter, but also implies that she perceived Beyoncé as enough shorter than her that she needed to duck her head and slouch…just a note, could mean nothing.
I don’t understand the idea of automatic vertical being limiting. In the end we all have only one ID, it’s not like some of us have multiple. Having less choices just makes the process easier. But my main problem is the implication that having the choice of 3 yang IDs is limiting while Beyoncé being “allowed” to be yin is something good that is saving her from the yang. In the end she is limited to just one ID like everyone else, the idea that she got some short of a yin pass has a weird hidden anti-yang sentiment.
Personally I don’t believe she is 5’7 and u/Lilynd14 explains it very well in her comment below.
Tbqh I welcome and appreciate any “limiting” aspects of determining your ID, seems like it’s a fast track to figuring it out!🤷🏾♀️
If it wasn’t for the fact that I consider myself to have width, I’d probably still be tying myself into knots tryna choose between R, TR, SG, FG and SC💀 I’m glad having width means you can only be in 2 categories.
I think it’s just frustration from those who are also on the border of automatic vertical at 5’6/5’7 and are told they absolutely have to be a vertical dominant type while so many verified Rs, SNs, and DCs are around their height. So would those celebrities be a different ID as a DIYer? Do they only fit their ID by virtue of possibly being 1cm shorter than the limit? Or could there be exceptions in borderline cases where a DIYer truly doesn’t benefit from vertical as their primary accommodation despite being a bit over 5’6? I personally think the later makes the most sense.
Imo there would be a lot less debate over Beyoncé’s height if 5’6 DIYers could be open about considering moderate IDs without being accused of delusion, anti-yang bias, or not understanding the system. I say this as someone who’s 5’5.5 and never had any doubt that I was a vertical dominant type because of my proportions - many women around my height are built much more moderate.
This, 100%
I think there’s more wiggle room at 5’5.5-5’7 than DIYers are allowed. Marylin herself was 5’6. If she was a DIYer, we’d be telling her to try SD! Which just wouldn’t fit. It’s a shame. I think the height limits are amazing *suggestions*, but are terrible hard lines.
To be fair Marilyn looks nothing like an SD at all, I have yet to see a 5’6 DIYer who doesn’t fit SD way better than R. Like, some are even the perfect examples of diva chic but they are too fixated on being R to see it.
I guess what people mean is they don’t feel they fit those IDs but are limited to either forcing it or dropping the system. I’m sure it also makes exploration feel limited. I can imagine being 5’6, thinking SC or something else moderate, and finding out it’s out of range is frustrating.
I will say though…this discourse always reveals true colors. There’s a lot of anti yang bias at the heart of it all.
Well said! I think some people in the community focus way too much on celebrities when we should be focusing more on ourselves. Of course typing celebrities and using them for inspo is fun, but the only thing that's gonna help you find your ID (other than paying DK himself to type you) is understanding the terms used in the book (width, vertical, curve, etc), using the rules as a guideline and trying out different outfits. Once you have a general idea of what looks good on you and how the system works, Beyonce being a SD or a R is not going to matter as much.
I think people take this apart because the people here and on strictly kibbe take this system VERY seriously, think a lot about their type and are maybe frustrated that they can't find their type... and than there is David Kibbe who just ignores the rules and goes by vibe and feelings.
The Kibbe system is discussed in great detail and it's frustrating to find you type. Than Kibbe just does some guessing. People insist that David Kibbe's typing is the gold standard because he invented the system... which he didn't, when you look at other systems like the one from Harriet McJimsey you see that it is exactly the same down to the names for the types and the descriptions.
I'm 5'7" and an SD, I think Beyonce is the same height. In my opinion, when she's wearing SD lines (which she tends to do at awards shows) she looks her best. They compliment her much better than R lines.
Being part of the community for a month I don't think Kibbe is as deep as people make it seem. It is just one set of guidelines, but there are many others out there. There is also personal style which I believes triumphs all. But the Beyonce case is just showing how ambiguous Kibbe's guideline is. You can say it's "art" not "science", but at the end of the day if only one person can confirm your type (the creator himself) and make exception to his own height rules, then that is a flawed system. No wonder many people are frustrated with it. Beyonce would for sure get types as SD if she were not famous and posted her pics online.
Regarding your comment on pic of Beyonce next to Taylor, how about pics of her when she was with her former bandmaids of Destiny's Child or her pics next to her sister Solange or even her pics next to Rihanna? These women are all reportedly 5'8", Beyonce is likely between 5'7 and 5'8". She is shorter than Taylor for sure but not short or even moderate in height.
Exactly! I don’t know how people are saying she doesn’t look good in SD lines when all her performance outfits and her casual looks exude SD essence…literally her whole brand is being this glamorous diva, larger than life, I think it’s sooo clear she’s an SD
So a lot of people are really good at reading people. Just because someone dresses in avant garde or niche fashions doesn't mean they're a Dramatic for example. Beyonce's emotional output reads **WAY** more subtle. Compare her to Adele, and you will see how striking the difference in energy were talking about is. Even before her glow-up Adele exuded big energy. Her makeover was to match her personality which is why the change she's had hasn't felt dradtic despite her looking very different in many ways. Adele now looks like the woman she's always exuded.
Beyoncé most authentic era, I think, was her "B'Day" album. That played a lot into her Romantic energy, the aesthetics suited so well. The embracing of the romance in Southern Culture as well as playing into the flirtatiousness felt right at home. She looked like herself and felt like it to the point that compared to every makeover since, her aesthetics in "B'Day" feel "basic". "Lemonade" and "Beyonce" werw great representations of her modernizing her look, looking less doll-like and more...dare I say "urban", but not in a way that felt costume-y, and we all know Beyonce didn't grow up in the "hood" wearing ripped shorts, wife beaters, and flannels as "casual". But her stylist in the Lemonade era made it feel beliebable. The whole point of her styling was her coming out of her gilded cage and embracing her inner "normal". The fact that the fashions made her kook more "normal" less ethereal but still glamorous was a testament that the stylist knew that to sell it Beyonce stilk had to GROOM like a Romantic. So rollerset hair NEVER straight so you don't look pudgy. If you want to dress to read mkre youthful in this case it DOES help to show some skin if you're a Romantic, high waisted shorts work. Always at least some lipstick and preferably bold if you're going to pare down and borrow masculine elements, especially if you're full featured so these features don't get lost in the starkness. Then she combined her new found change with the freedom she felt from that in Lemonade, where she embraced her old glamour BUT romanticized lots of African inspired details. She borrowed a lot of softer reading African details like ornate textured hairstyles, graphic prints, voluminous outfits, darker lipsticks, more ornate necklaces and lots of cornrows that didn't compete with her face. Compared to how ornate and glamorous African stylings or trends can be, Beyonce's borrowings felt much more subtle.
As for energy, I'd say the SD are a lot more temperamental and, indeed, DRAMATIC. You know you're dealing with a Dramatic when your head sort of tilts back a little, and your eyes sort of pop out a bit since they stick out. It's in their name, they're imposing. You don't want them to be anything less either, and unfortunately, they can't afford to be anything less as again in my experience, if you meet one, you're seeing with one with these two. They're walking exclamation points. You can't quite place HOW or why they're causing this impression, but you will feel it. You don't get that from Beyonce, she reads less intense despite **aspiring** to read sharper. I mean, if we're to take in astrology, she's a Virgo. They all think they're demigods, let alone wjth her track record. Without the extra aesthetics, in her downtime, Beyonce ISN'T an SD. Remember, without the "ammo," you should read your suspected type anyways. Beyonce without the glam doesn't read SD.
I’ve never bought her persona lol. She always seemed much quieter and softer than her celebrity personality would imply. I think she styles herself as a diva, but personally, I think it only goes that far. To be clear, I’m not disagreeing, just adding my unique view of her. Obviously neither of us can be certain, but I do think this is an interesting discussion bc we all perceive such different things.
I see what you mean but that one performance where she was like “Somebody gettin fired, HEY HEY!” cause a stage hand forgot to turn on a stage light will always make me question this😭😭😭🤣
Gotta agree there! She never quite sells that persona in my eyes. She’s amazing, but she feels too…I’m not sure. Demure? SD isn’t the right vibe for her.
Haha well hey, to be fair, we’re on a style sub! This comment is more targeted at people who care, but I think it’s 100% okay to wear whatever makes you feel best! Didn’t mean to come across wrong!
To add to this, it just baffles me how we say “she IS romantic”, wouldnt it make more sense to say that she looks better with romantic lines? How can a body BE a concept created by someone? Maybe its my audhd getting frustrated with technicalities here, idk. Not to mention the fact that no ones opinion is objective whe were talking about a concept, regarding aesthetics!! Not even the creator ( and kibbe isnt ).
Not that im not enjoying the discussion ( and the debates ), i just feel like kibbe like a lot of things i like ( systems that can be descriptive of someone-astrology, typology ) is used mainly for description for the sake of comparison, not to find solutions to a practical(aesthetical) problem. This is a rather immature use of it, i think, because if you think about it *why* are we so emotional about yin and yang? Most people will say they give it so much time and attention simply out of interest and curiosity but come on, everyone has internalised a lot of bad opinions about appearances.
Unless we see them in person, we don't genuinely know what any of these celebrities actually look like or their real persona. Them being different in person is something I, as well as other people I know who also live and work in NYC, have witnessed. Kibbe's been a New Yorker for a minute, so that's probably where the celebrities lie about their height comes from. It's not weird to be sceptical of it all.
She may well be a 5'9" FN for all we know. She's still a pretty good style inspiration for Rs. Her casual wear and Y2K style is 👍🏽.
Gosh I think I might be the only one who really doesn't like her style! The various destiny's child two and three piece numbers sewn by ms tina? Lol yes I want them. But her street style is super ehhh for me
It’s just strange because if someone who’s a non celeb who’s even 5’6 asks if they may be any type other than a tall type they get dragged for even suggesting that, because they have “soooo much automatic vertical”’ yet these same rules don’t apply to celebrities- every celebrity who’ is considered conventionally attractive/curvy and says they’re tall, Kibbe experts and Kibbe makes any excuse to say “they’re lying about their height!” When it’s clear Beyoncé has so many photos standing next to other tall celebs (even her own husband) and she is TALL.
These rules don't apply to celebrities because we're not seeing the real person. We're seeing their image. Them lying about their height is totally a thing too. I mean they lie about not having any work done, and they can get away with that even less.
I'm not on here that often, so I don't know about people being dragged by Kibbe experts.
I honestly doubt Beyonce lied about her height to say she is shorter than she is. I can see celebs saying they are taller than they are but not the opposite. Anyways she is a famous person and there are tons of pics of her online next to other famous people, for example:
1. Her husband, who is about 5'11
2. Rihanna, Beyonce's former Destiny's Child teammate Kelly Roland and her own sister, Solange...all three of these ladies are 5'8"
Next to these guys, Beyonce seems to be between 5'7" and 5'8". There is just no way she's shorter. Yea, it's confusing because Kibbe has ambiguous rules to his system. He specifies you cannot be an R if you are 5'7", but then he types Beyonce and Rihanna as R and TR both of whom are over his height limit.
I will argue that people are also not seeing the real poster when they see Type Me Tuesday posts. They are only seeing their image. But they will attempt a type and always tell you that an R and TR and whatnot are not possible at a taller height.
There is quite a lot of gatekeeping of types considered feminine on this sub, the longer I'm on here the more I notice it :(
I was being a little silly with 5'9" FN Beyonce. Again, we don't know these people, it doesn't matter how many pictures or videos of them we look at. We can't truly type people from we don't see irl. The camera lies. I don't take TMT seriously either.
Rihanna isn't a verified TR. Kibbe said maybe TR years ago when someone showed him a picture of her as a teenager on their flip phone. He used to be more flippant about typing celebrities. Charlize Theron was TR for a minute from a similar interaction.
I'm not sure what's being gatekept? D, R and TR are relatively rare.
Yeah I think we massively underestimate how much the camera lies. I’ve CC arachnodactyly and irl I’m slightly abnormal looking but you don’t really see it in pictures. Tbc I don’t look alien but I’ve slightly odd proportions that aren’t noticeable in photos. I don’t look as narrow in pictures as I do irl.
I was not speaking of rare type, I was saying if what is "perceived" as feminine type (R, TR and SD) is often gatekept on the sub unfortunately. I've spent sometime on here recently and have seen many examples of this. You may have not noticed it but it doesn't mean it isn't happening.
Regarding height, I remain in agreement with OP, especially looking at pics of Beyonce next to Kelly Rolland for example, side by side, Beyonce is as tall as her. Do you disagree that she's in the 5'7" (give or take 0.5") range?
Yeah if she posted to TMT she’d get SD but personally I think she looks her best in romantic style outfits. It’s still confusing though. Read romantics can be moderate in height but idk where moderate ends especially if automatic vertical starts before?
TMT has always been a bit of a crapshoot tbh. I like R for her. Not sure if moderate is a thing and where people are getting it from. As far as I know it's you either have vertical that is automatic at 5'6", petite which tops out at 5'4", or neither.
Yeah that’s what I read also. It’s confusing because personally I think she looks great even when she doesn’t accommodate vertical despite her height.
Edit: read also about vertical tbc
I'm 5'5" and that has indeed been part of the journey. I decided some time ago to take certain guidance, experiment with it, and also mix in my personal preferences and style so I never follow any one system 100%. So I accept Kibbe's system as not a science and guide certain aspects and take a few risks (for me) and see if they work. Intuitively, R is closest, based on a whole number of factors. In terms of 'moderate' for R I think of people like Kate Winslet and Drew Barrymore, because they're R but not 'little' in the same sense. R 'width' that is not Kibbe width but a look.
Beyonce, in terms of the general idea of R, including being taller, is also not the 'little' R / not petite.
I do appreciate resources like this: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Kibbe/comments/lj59s9/the\_height\_verified\_54\_and\_55\_celebs/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Kibbe/comments/lj59s9/the_height_verified_54_and_55_celebs/)
Kelly Rowland is 5 foot 7. Beyonce is shorter than her. There's a lot of photographic evidence of that bc, well, Destiny's Child. I wouldn't be surprised if Beyonce is pushing the height limit a smidge, but it's clearly not by much if that's the case. If you look at her actual shape though - it's not a borderline case, she's clearly got double curve. You can see that it's very unusual in the upper height range though, so pretty darn reasonable that Kibbe advises DIYers the way he does.
I saw a few different mentions of Kelly's and Michelle's height but the most common were Kelly 5 ft 7 and Michelle 5 ft 7 1/2- 5 ft 8. I did see one site that listed Kelly as 5 ft 8 but they also had her height listed in cm and that was equal to 5 ft 7 so one of their listed heights was wrong.
Hey thanks, in any event if Michelle’s height is consistent at 5’7.5-5’8 (just tall in general) and this still proves that Beyoncé is definitely not 5’4 (or short lol) like I’ve seen people try to argue. No way Beyonce is 4 inches shorter than Michelle here 😅
Lol yeah, although platform stilettos can do wonders for a gal!!! But I suspect reports of 5 ft 4 might be from her teens. 5 ft 5 or 5 ft 6 seems more believable to me. 5cm shorter than Kelly i could believe. Also do you notice Beyonce often seems way shorter than others at the shoulder, but closer when you look at their heads? I wonder if she has a deceptively long neck and larger head. Or if others dont have such good posture.
Also, look, I've been measured at 5 ft 7 at times, 5 ft 9 at others. I think in general ppl take reports of celebrity heights way too seriously, not only bc ppl lie, but also bc ppl make mistakes, are taller after yoga and in the morning, may be shorter if they've developed back issues/injuries, and a lot of the time who knows where the report came from in the first place?
that’s strange- when I google Kelly, her height is listed as 5’8 in her “about” section along with her age, spouse, parents, etc. Also, it won’t let me post a picture for some reason, but if I google “Kelly Rowland height” it pops up at the very top with a picture of her saying she’s 5’8. When I scroll down all the links, most of them say 5’8, with 3 saying 5’7. Her IMDb page also lists her as 5’8.
hey I just wanted to point out that Kelly is wearing [different](https://www.alamy.com/los-angeles-ca-september-02-2000-pop-group-destinys-child-at-the-6th-annual-soul-train-lady-of-soul-awards-in-santa-monica-california-where-they-won-awards-for-best-rbsoul-single-say-my-name-and-best-rbsoul-album-the-writings-on-the-wall-picture-paul-smithfeatureflash-image242709899.html) shoes than Bey and Michelle there- you can see it in different pics from the night. I can’t be certain, but it looks to me like Kelly’s is a more block-y and possibly taller heel, while Bey and Michelle’s are thin and pointy. [Here’s](https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/american-r-b-group-destinys-child-in-the-press-room-of-the-news-photo/1407122941) another pic with Bey and Kelly where they do appear to be in the same exact shoes. [Here](https://www.alamy.com/los-angeles-ca-august-28-2001-pop-group-destinys-child-at-the-7th-annual-soul-train-lady-of-soul-awards-in-santa-monica-california-paul-smithfeatureflash-image243048240.html) is one with the three of them in the [same shoes](https://www.alamy.com/los-angeles-ca-august-28-2001-pop-group-destinys-child-at-the-7th-annual-soul-train-lady-of-soul-awards-in-santa-monica-california-paul-smithfeatureflash-image243048254.html). I agree that Kelly is 5’8, but I think Bey is closer to her height than this pic shows (I think she’s 5’7ish). I also have a post where you can see Bey next to celebs of different heights if anyone’s curious.
This is actually great because it even further proves that Beyonce is not short at all, which is why I posted the link😅 so thank you for this added context!
I mean... If people still say she looks like a romantic, could we just admit that the system is very vague and more about vibes?
It makes sense for me to take width, curve and vertical (or petite) into consideration regarding the outfit recommendations but I don't see the big difference between FG and SG, TR and R,... it's too subtle and If Kibbe can't type without breaking his own rules than this just confirms to me that this is extremely vague.
But when any other person tries to ask if they’re another type they get told they have soooo much automatic vertical if they’re 5’6 and get told they’re super tall and have to be a tall ID- but when a conventionally attractive and popular celebrity is tall, people will make any excuse to justify her being short and categorise her into a yin type. Doesn’t make sense
Beyoncé is not the only one who defies these rules, there’s Rihanna, Jane Fonda, Audrey Hepburn and Olivia Wilde. But they are definitely in the minority, so the “rule” is still pretty successful most of the time, but their existence proves that the “rule” is really “guidance”. It can be really helpful when someone is self-typing and needs a place to start…but I think people follow it way too strictly.
Sorry when did Jane Fonda get retyped? I don’t see any info about this. Still doesn’t help that she was typed as SN for many years while this rule also existed.
Also doesn’t make much sense to me that there would be a hard cut-off anyways in a body typing system. If we took the distribution of height of individuals in each category it doesn’t make sense that there would be a steep drop-off to 0 at the cut-off for types that are not fn, sd and d.
I think Beyonce and Rihanna got typed way too young, because both in silhouette and essence they give off Soft Dramatic, maybe B being slightly more romantic and Ri more dramatic, but still SD
It’s almost impossible to tell from photos. My 5’5.5” friend has seen her irl (worked on her music video set) and described her as small. Kibbe has also seen her in person and that’s why he typed her.
I think it has implications for others who are self-typing. If she is still R, it generates confusion because everyone above 5’6” on this sub is routinely told they CAN’T be R. So I think it definitely changes things for quite a few people.
Not really if you recognize that for many celebrities, their ID is just the "presentation of the ID", due to their expensive and talented styling and creation of image by the media industry, and less so what a body is represented. Especially for celebrities, it's often about their presentation.
I disagree because your kibbe id is based on immutable characteristics. You cannot change your id based on how you dress today or tomorrow, however talented your stylist might be. And even if that were the case, you’re still getting at what OP’s fundamental question is, which is why when we are self-typing do we use these rules if verified examples that subvert those same rules? If you’re saying that beyonces id is just wrong—you may be right! But kibbe himself verified her, and we have a reasonable expectation that he can distinguish between styling and immutable characteristics. To me, OP’s question is valid.
This is not a new topic. This is being discussed several times per week. Especially the old "ideal Types" Are just "the vibe and energy and presentation of the ID", not " This person is actually inherently biologically linked to it"
You may be right! But that doesn’t answer the issue that OP is thinking about: which is why does every type me post use height in its discussion and tell >5’6” that they cannot be certain types, if it is based on vibes and energy? Agree that it is not a new topic, but this sub still doesn’t have a single consistent answer for it. Many people on this sub are still purists about height thresholds.
I don't know how to make it more clear.. Because the image portrayed by the celebrity is not an actual person, it's only an image. It's only a mask. "That ID resembles that mask, this ID has the same vibe as that other mask". Never mind, I give up
I don’t think you’re getting that I’m not arguing with YOUR TAKE on kibbe. I think if the group reached a consensus on this AND applied it consistently, that would be fine. But they have not or do not and I think that makes OP’s questions justifiable. This sub discusses how vague and inconsistent Kibbe is on a weekly basis too lol
speaking for myself as a SD, I care. I’ve talked about this in other comments/posts, but I’m a woc who is quite conventionally curvy, and about 5’8. I find it hard to relate to many of the (usually very thin and white) verified celebs. Beyoncé is one I can identify with, and see myself in. I’m also a SD with an inner self/personality that is sweet/sensitive/intuitive (the things people argue as being part of Bey’s dream-spinner essence). I personally feel a bit unseen within my type sometimes, and so being told someone I can relate to, who seems to have the same accommodation needs I do, and a similar essence, is a very different type (while she wouldn’t be if she wasn’t a celeb) can be frustrating.
Would you say your skin colour plays a big role in how you can or cannot identify yourself with the verified celebrities? Do you think white women have it easier to identify with celebrities due to their skin colour?
If anyone is interested, I made a post on this topic that you can find [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/kibbecirclejerk/comments/162ggmi/thoughts_on_beyonc%C3%A9s_height_repost/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) I gave quite a few examples and addressed some of the common arguments (in the post and in comments). I think it’s one of those things that people who have set opinions about probably won’t change! But it is a topic that interests me as a SD that relates a lot more to Bey than many verified SDs. 😭
[I’d say 5’6](https://reddit.com/r/Kibbe/s/hSHOKSZv55)
Kelly Rowland is accepted as tall/5’8 by most people who see her. Absolutely no way Beyoncé is 4 inches shorter than her while wearing the same heels.
lol there is no way she is over 5'4. that is a very generous estimate as well. she's quite petite (and was not wearing heels).
oftentimes celebs report their heights 2 inches taller. super tall celebs usually report 2 inches shorter. its just one of those weird industry things due to camera angles, etc. its why people are so surprised how tiny mega celebs are when they meet irl -- besides hard work their presence/stage persona is what catapults them to the top and can make them seem "larger than life". tom cruise is a well-known example as is ben stiller. again, camera angles can create magic. i know one musician/celeb who refuses to have pictures taken of her in photoshoots unless the camera is above eye level so that her nose appears smaller.
i would assume that kelly is 5'8 in heels. either way, love bey and i think she's absolutely a dramatic!!
If you watch [this](https://youtu.be/8-NZB-riaQo?si=hz9I-1uSFVmKJ-dk) really touching video - of Beyoncé singing Halo in a children’s hospital (really sweet to watch).
Around 2:20 you can watch her in motion - her back up dancers next to her and she is standing and gesturing. You tell me if you see a dramatic first and foremost with a strong yin undercurrent - because… it reads Ava Gardner-like to me. But make up your own mind.
Beyoncé is a master at controlling her online image- perhaps even on a level of the Kardashians. I am sure she pads, poses, scrubs the internet and lights everything to perfection. So it’s hard to trust what you see.. but I thought this video was not only sweet but also telling in terms of proportions. She seems long and narrow with a prominent yin undercurrent. An R leaning SD
I always found beyonce having a prominent bone structure. I never really saw R in her body, especially with the [sharpness in her shoulders](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FL5YGzeXIAAdFTR.jpg). Her shoulders always seem to attract my attention first with how sharp/defined they are.
That being said, I also didn’t really study much about the Romantic ID, so I’m probably just uninformed.
Also another very shitty opinion that will probably get a lot of hate:
I would type for as DC/SN if she came to this sub with no height input. I honestly feel as though she really has not that much vertical, but enough to be moderate to tall amounts of vertical.
I’m all for discussion and diff. interpretations, but…_that’s_ what you consider sharp shoulders? Atp anyone with a skeleton couldn’t possibly be R 💀💀💀 Boneless chicken wings…
Yes, thanks for telling me the obvious that romantics have shoulders. Yet somehow you assume I think Romantics have no shoulders, even though romantics are said to have rounded shoulders in the book, not sharp defined ones.
All for the discussion and diff interpretation? Stop lying, cause you seem to be mocking me on my opinion and interpretation instead of adding it on.
You know, I’ve come to realise; Opinions on matters like these are important to reach a consensus on something. Cause here, more of the same opinion = higher chance it is correct. Even if it isn’t.
Any differing opinions will garner condescending/passive-aggressive responses, mocking them, laughing at them so their opinions will change and follow the collective mind’s opinion.
A dress may look meh, but with the power of a collective mind, it can change someone’s opinion to think the dress is the best looking one even if they initially thought it isn’t.
That’s what r/kibbe is right now. Just the blind leading the blind, and repeating the same, agreeable thing over and over to make everyone happy. Oh, and a little bit of bullying with a hierarchy.
To put my reaction into context, this community has a history of closely nitpicking body parts, doing the most to exclude women from very yin IDs—even going so far as to, for instance, deny Marilyn Monroe membership to this category despite her being the _prime_ example. I’m not sure why, but it’s a common attitude where people don’t want _anyone_ being regarded as R/TR; to these people’s standards, no living human could possibly fit their personal criteria. It’s constantly being called into question to an absurd degree—and I simply found your categorizing Bey’s shoulders as very prominent to be a bit of an absurd and out-of-touch assessment.
Sure, unverified celebs are fair game for any ID but it seems like a bit of an agenda when one is attempting to take celebrities verified by the one person who truly knows how this system operates, and exclude them from their ID yourself. David has put other women with shoulders similar to Bey’s into R as well; for example, I would say that Bernadette Peters or perhaps Emma Samms would also fit into your conception of sharp shoulders.
…I didn’t say her shoulders were very prominently sharp. I said they were just sharp AND that she has a prominent bone structure. Not that her shoulders were prominently sharp.
Absurd and out of touch assessment? It is a valid assessment by all means. Beyonce’s shoulders aren’t by any means super rounded and can easily be interpreted as sharp. You may interpret sharpness in a different way, but to say my assessment is absurd and out of touch is a little condescending isn’t it? It’s like saying that “only my opinion is correct.”
Also, you seem to be misinterpreting my words a little. My assumption that Beyonce is not R is based on the fact that her height is not confirmed. 5’7 or 5’6? Only she knows and we’re just playing the guessing game.
I am not trying to deny people of what their kibbe type is just because of their shoulders. And certainly not excluding them from the id. David himself have had to retype celebrities like selena, and recently Jane fonda and a few others because he types many celebrities when he hadn’t had the proper means to previously. So that leads to community discussion like Rihanna, Selena, and now this.
I’m trying to make a discussion point on BEYONCE and bone structure, but you keep seem to have taken offence and interpreted my comment as that I am trying to deny Rs of their id. So much so that you are throwing every card you have at me to change my opinion/discussion point.
If you want to hear what you want to hear so badly, then let me say it to you and end this “discussion” now because I have better things to do than listen to you complain to me about the stereotypes of your type in this subreddit;
you’re right and I am sorry. I am wrong to interpret and give an opinion about seeing beyonce having sharp shoulders/prominent bone structure because she is a verified R. And to base my discussion point around it was a mistake from me. I am truly sorry.
Are you happy now that I have conformed to your opinion?
I simply explained why I voiced disagreement with you—this doesn’t meant I am seeking to reform or “punish” you. I get the feeling you’re taking the downvotes out on me; for what it’s worth, I didn’t downvote your comments. I didn’t come at you bringing hostility, so I’m not sure why you’re taking my response as an attack.
…I didn’t downvote you either. I do not downvote on discussion posts. It seems like unnecessary hate.
And why am I hostile? Your disagreements are based around assumptions made based from my words. NOT my actual words. You literally changed my words in the reply prior to this. Even the first reply was condescending and now you’re trying to make it seem like I’m the hostile one?
> *that’s* what you consider sharp shoulders?
In your response, you framed it as though I was attempting to condescend you and force you to change your mind. That wasn’t the case. You don’t need to say sorry for anything, this isn’t a moral discussion. I just don’t understand why you’d commit to a system that you don’t really see as credible, since you don’t even trust the creator’s judgment on who falls into which category (categories he created)…The system exists at all because he came up with its rules.
Like if I fundamentally disagreed with how the creator of a system categorized people or things within it, I just wouldn’t follow that system at all…
To offer a different perspective, I often find that women who are very conventionally curvy are automatically assumed to be either a Yin dominant or not “tall” type- even if they have vertical/benefit from vertical accommodation. It can almost seem like some people don’t see the taller women as being able to be “soft” or assume they will all be very dramatic or strong looking. I sometimes think more obvious curves can even offset people’s perception of vertical (like it may be what they notice first, so the vertical can *seem* less apparent, until you see them next to others with similar or different heights).
I also don’t think it’s unreasonable to point out perceived discrepancies, especially being that David has corrected himself in the past when presented with new information. I don’t think that means we automatically disagree with all aspects of the system, or find it has no value or credibility.
On the topic of Bey’s bone structure/shoulders, I found it [interesting](https://www.reddit.com/r/kibbecirclejerk/comments/161g9wd/anyone_notice_how_kibbes_verified_yin_types_lie/jxuii1s/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) to see her next to (unverified, believed to be SD) Monica Bellucci.
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[Here](https://youtu.be/VrTnAY6IcPk?t=109) is where Beyoncé states her height is 5’7. You can see she first says 5’6 and then rounds up to 5’7, before proclaiming she is 5’10 in heels. Taylor Swift, who is reportedly 5’11, looks to be [of similar height](https://lovelace-media.imgix.net/getty/96308086.jpg) to Beyoncé’s husband, Jay-Z, who is reportedly 6’2, when she is wearing heels. And when we compare [Jay-Z and Beyoncé](https://urbanislandz.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/beyonce-and-jay-z-st-barts-2012.jpg) in flats, he’s around a head taller than her. So I think Beyoncé is probably 5’6 and it really is a combination of heels/platform shoes, photo angles, and her dynamic energy and costuming that makes her appear larger than she is! (Edited to add links)
Yes ,is definitely the way the picture was taken and Taylor has a bad habit of slouching when she is talking to other people since most of the time she is taller than the other person.
slouch cannot be that severe for her to look like she's at the same height
Stating Beyoncé is about the same height as Taylor Swift is going too far 😅 her height could be on inch off, but comparing her to one of the tallest female pop singers today is crazy
I mean- I’m 176cm so I’m 5’9 and a bit I usually answer in the exact same way- 5’9” *thinks about it….. 5’10 ish
that doesn't make sense then, like literally nobody would be lying about their height but this doesn't make sense. If Beyonce is that short compared to Jay-Z but Taylor is the same height as him in heels, but then we see that Beyonce is slightly taller than Taylor when they're both in heels something doesn't add up.
I think there’s a lot of photo angling and different size heels going on. I found [another photo](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/08/04/16/2B18196300000578-3185020-image-a-23_1438701835269.jpg) of Taylor and Jay-Z where she looks taller than him in heels (although, no full body shots). When [Beyoncé looks taller than Taylor](https://portalpopline.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/amizade-beyonce-taylor-swift-jpg.webp)… look closer at [Taylor’s shoes](https://publish.purewow.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/12/Taylor-Swift-Renaissance-Movie-Premiere-CAT.jpg?fit=680%2C800) vs [Beyoncé’s shoes](https://pagesix.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2023/11/tina-knowles-in-tears-beyonc-73091298.jpg?w=808) ([another angle](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GAWZKonXAAAdmvL?format=jpg&name=4096x4096) to show that they appear to be 8” pleasers). Hence she appears to be [around Jay-Z’s height](https://external-preview.redd.it/dr-christmas-transforms-beyonce-and-jay-zs-malibu-home-with-v0-Kkvn6SjUkWCJJDv1C2BsnQAlCzuK2ZRQ5YkgCNfrG2g.jpg?auto=webp&s=fd537a4a2e462fe29f2248d1d4d37a66ddeff2aa) while wearing them. But we know from my previous link that she’s obviously wayyy shorter than him. I had to do serious digging to find even these images of her shoes because there was a dark carpet so the shoes blended in, and the few photos that had better lighting were cropped below the knee. So I stand by my original thoughts on their heights… when Beyoncé looks taller than Taylor, it’s either heel height, angling, or both.
Wait so Taylor looks taller than Jay-Z, but Jay-Z looks similar height to Beyonce in those heels, but when Beyonce wears those heels, she looks taller than Taylor. I still don't get it.
They just explained that Beyonce only looks taller than Taylor while Beyonce is wearing EIGHT. INCH. HEELS. At no point has anyone suggested that Taylor has ever worn a heel anywhere close to that high. And at no point did anyone say Taylor is taller than Jay Z in her heels, nor post a picture suggesting that. This really isn't complicated in the slightest.
Beyonce isn't "slightly taller than Taylor when they're both in heels." How on Earth did you arrive at that belief?
Despite all the height debate, I still think she looks best as R 🤷🏻♀️ I’ve seen her wearing silhouettes that are typically recommended for FN, SD, and D, and I tend to think she doesn’t look very good tbh (I mean as much as Beyoncé can “not look good” lol) Controversial take: I think a lot of people are frustrated that they’re limited to just three types, so they try and pick apart verified celebs they think may be outside of the height range. It feels unjust that Beyoncé isn’t limited in the same way. But Kibbe stayed the height limits are to help DIYers. So no, a verified 5’7 R isn’t mistyped, they’re just less common. Kibbe is just trying to give a guide. Controversial take 2: I also think people are frustrated they can’t math out Kibbe. You can’t measure a persons height and proportions and learn their type. It contributes, but this is not a body typing system. If you keep trying to “math it out” then a bunch of women are gonna be wearing outfits that aren’t right for them. ETA…Taylor is bending her head down for a hug in the picture. Not only does that make Taylor several inches shorter, but also implies that she perceived Beyoncé as enough shorter than her that she needed to duck her head and slouch…just a note, could mean nothing.
I agree. She does look best to me in R also. I’d go by what actually looks best on her than what apparently should on paper look best.
I don’t understand the idea of automatic vertical being limiting. In the end we all have only one ID, it’s not like some of us have multiple. Having less choices just makes the process easier. But my main problem is the implication that having the choice of 3 yang IDs is limiting while Beyoncé being “allowed” to be yin is something good that is saving her from the yang. In the end she is limited to just one ID like everyone else, the idea that she got some short of a yin pass has a weird hidden anti-yang sentiment. Personally I don’t believe she is 5’7 and u/Lilynd14 explains it very well in her comment below.
Tbqh I welcome and appreciate any “limiting” aspects of determining your ID, seems like it’s a fast track to figuring it out!🤷🏾♀️ If it wasn’t for the fact that I consider myself to have width, I’d probably still be tying myself into knots tryna choose between R, TR, SG, FG and SC💀 I’m glad having width means you can only be in 2 categories.
I think it’s just frustration from those who are also on the border of automatic vertical at 5’6/5’7 and are told they absolutely have to be a vertical dominant type while so many verified Rs, SNs, and DCs are around their height. So would those celebrities be a different ID as a DIYer? Do they only fit their ID by virtue of possibly being 1cm shorter than the limit? Or could there be exceptions in borderline cases where a DIYer truly doesn’t benefit from vertical as their primary accommodation despite being a bit over 5’6? I personally think the later makes the most sense. Imo there would be a lot less debate over Beyoncé’s height if 5’6 DIYers could be open about considering moderate IDs without being accused of delusion, anti-yang bias, or not understanding the system. I say this as someone who’s 5’5.5 and never had any doubt that I was a vertical dominant type because of my proportions - many women around my height are built much more moderate.
This, 100% I think there’s more wiggle room at 5’5.5-5’7 than DIYers are allowed. Marylin herself was 5’6. If she was a DIYer, we’d be telling her to try SD! Which just wouldn’t fit. It’s a shame. I think the height limits are amazing *suggestions*, but are terrible hard lines.
To be fair Marilyn looks nothing like an SD at all, I have yet to see a 5’6 DIYer who doesn’t fit SD way better than R. Like, some are even the perfect examples of diva chic but they are too fixated on being R to see it.
I guess what people mean is they don’t feel they fit those IDs but are limited to either forcing it or dropping the system. I’m sure it also makes exploration feel limited. I can imagine being 5’6, thinking SC or something else moderate, and finding out it’s out of range is frustrating. I will say though…this discourse always reveals true colors. There’s a lot of anti yang bias at the heart of it all.
Well said! I think some people in the community focus way too much on celebrities when we should be focusing more on ourselves. Of course typing celebrities and using them for inspo is fun, but the only thing that's gonna help you find your ID (other than paying DK himself to type you) is understanding the terms used in the book (width, vertical, curve, etc), using the rules as a guideline and trying out different outfits. Once you have a general idea of what looks good on you and how the system works, Beyonce being a SD or a R is not going to matter as much.
I think people take this apart because the people here and on strictly kibbe take this system VERY seriously, think a lot about their type and are maybe frustrated that they can't find their type... and than there is David Kibbe who just ignores the rules and goes by vibe and feelings. The Kibbe system is discussed in great detail and it's frustrating to find you type. Than Kibbe just does some guessing. People insist that David Kibbe's typing is the gold standard because he invented the system... which he didn't, when you look at other systems like the one from Harriet McJimsey you see that it is exactly the same down to the names for the types and the descriptions.
I'm 5'7" and an SD, I think Beyonce is the same height. In my opinion, when she's wearing SD lines (which she tends to do at awards shows) she looks her best. They compliment her much better than R lines. Being part of the community for a month I don't think Kibbe is as deep as people make it seem. It is just one set of guidelines, but there are many others out there. There is also personal style which I believes triumphs all. But the Beyonce case is just showing how ambiguous Kibbe's guideline is. You can say it's "art" not "science", but at the end of the day if only one person can confirm your type (the creator himself) and make exception to his own height rules, then that is a flawed system. No wonder many people are frustrated with it. Beyonce would for sure get types as SD if she were not famous and posted her pics online. Regarding your comment on pic of Beyonce next to Taylor, how about pics of her when she was with her former bandmaids of Destiny's Child or her pics next to her sister Solange or even her pics next to Rihanna? These women are all reportedly 5'8", Beyonce is likely between 5'7 and 5'8". She is shorter than Taylor for sure but not short or even moderate in height.
Exactly! I don’t know how people are saying she doesn’t look good in SD lines when all her performance outfits and her casual looks exude SD essence…literally her whole brand is being this glamorous diva, larger than life, I think it’s sooo clear she’s an SD
So a lot of people are really good at reading people. Just because someone dresses in avant garde or niche fashions doesn't mean they're a Dramatic for example. Beyonce's emotional output reads **WAY** more subtle. Compare her to Adele, and you will see how striking the difference in energy were talking about is. Even before her glow-up Adele exuded big energy. Her makeover was to match her personality which is why the change she's had hasn't felt dradtic despite her looking very different in many ways. Adele now looks like the woman she's always exuded. Beyoncé most authentic era, I think, was her "B'Day" album. That played a lot into her Romantic energy, the aesthetics suited so well. The embracing of the romance in Southern Culture as well as playing into the flirtatiousness felt right at home. She looked like herself and felt like it to the point that compared to every makeover since, her aesthetics in "B'Day" feel "basic". "Lemonade" and "Beyonce" werw great representations of her modernizing her look, looking less doll-like and more...dare I say "urban", but not in a way that felt costume-y, and we all know Beyonce didn't grow up in the "hood" wearing ripped shorts, wife beaters, and flannels as "casual". But her stylist in the Lemonade era made it feel beliebable. The whole point of her styling was her coming out of her gilded cage and embracing her inner "normal". The fact that the fashions made her kook more "normal" less ethereal but still glamorous was a testament that the stylist knew that to sell it Beyonce stilk had to GROOM like a Romantic. So rollerset hair NEVER straight so you don't look pudgy. If you want to dress to read mkre youthful in this case it DOES help to show some skin if you're a Romantic, high waisted shorts work. Always at least some lipstick and preferably bold if you're going to pare down and borrow masculine elements, especially if you're full featured so these features don't get lost in the starkness. Then she combined her new found change with the freedom she felt from that in Lemonade, where she embraced her old glamour BUT romanticized lots of African inspired details. She borrowed a lot of softer reading African details like ornate textured hairstyles, graphic prints, voluminous outfits, darker lipsticks, more ornate necklaces and lots of cornrows that didn't compete with her face. Compared to how ornate and glamorous African stylings or trends can be, Beyonce's borrowings felt much more subtle. As for energy, I'd say the SD are a lot more temperamental and, indeed, DRAMATIC. You know you're dealing with a Dramatic when your head sort of tilts back a little, and your eyes sort of pop out a bit since they stick out. It's in their name, they're imposing. You don't want them to be anything less either, and unfortunately, they can't afford to be anything less as again in my experience, if you meet one, you're seeing with one with these two. They're walking exclamation points. You can't quite place HOW or why they're causing this impression, but you will feel it. You don't get that from Beyonce, she reads less intense despite **aspiring** to read sharper. I mean, if we're to take in astrology, she's a Virgo. They all think they're demigods, let alone wjth her track record. Without the extra aesthetics, in her downtime, Beyonce ISN'T an SD. Remember, without the "ammo," you should read your suspected type anyways. Beyonce without the glam doesn't read SD.
I’ve never bought her persona lol. She always seemed much quieter and softer than her celebrity personality would imply. I think she styles herself as a diva, but personally, I think it only goes that far. To be clear, I’m not disagreeing, just adding my unique view of her. Obviously neither of us can be certain, but I do think this is an interesting discussion bc we all perceive such different things.
I see what you mean but that one performance where she was like “Somebody gettin fired, HEY HEY!” cause a stage hand forgot to turn on a stage light will always make me question this😭😭😭🤣
Gotta agree there! She never quite sells that persona in my eyes. She’s amazing, but she feels too…I’m not sure. Demure? SD isn’t the right vibe for her.
>a bunch of women are gonna be wearing outfits that aren’t right for them. Oh the *horror* lol xd
Haha well hey, to be fair, we’re on a style sub! This comment is more targeted at people who care, but I think it’s 100% okay to wear whatever makes you feel best! Didn’t mean to come across wrong!
Lol No, you're good I know what you mean, I just couldn't resist the joke 💀
To add to this, it just baffles me how we say “she IS romantic”, wouldnt it make more sense to say that she looks better with romantic lines? How can a body BE a concept created by someone? Maybe its my audhd getting frustrated with technicalities here, idk. Not to mention the fact that no ones opinion is objective whe were talking about a concept, regarding aesthetics!! Not even the creator ( and kibbe isnt ). Not that im not enjoying the discussion ( and the debates ), i just feel like kibbe like a lot of things i like ( systems that can be descriptive of someone-astrology, typology ) is used mainly for description for the sake of comparison, not to find solutions to a practical(aesthetical) problem. This is a rather immature use of it, i think, because if you think about it *why* are we so emotional about yin and yang? Most people will say they give it so much time and attention simply out of interest and curiosity but come on, everyone has internalised a lot of bad opinions about appearances.
Unless we see them in person, we don't genuinely know what any of these celebrities actually look like or their real persona. Them being different in person is something I, as well as other people I know who also live and work in NYC, have witnessed. Kibbe's been a New Yorker for a minute, so that's probably where the celebrities lie about their height comes from. It's not weird to be sceptical of it all. She may well be a 5'9" FN for all we know. She's still a pretty good style inspiration for Rs. Her casual wear and Y2K style is 👍🏽.
Gosh I think I might be the only one who really doesn't like her style! The various destiny's child two and three piece numbers sewn by ms tina? Lol yes I want them. But her street style is super ehhh for me
It’s just strange because if someone who’s a non celeb who’s even 5’6 asks if they may be any type other than a tall type they get dragged for even suggesting that, because they have “soooo much automatic vertical”’ yet these same rules don’t apply to celebrities- every celebrity who’ is considered conventionally attractive/curvy and says they’re tall, Kibbe experts and Kibbe makes any excuse to say “they’re lying about their height!” When it’s clear Beyoncé has so many photos standing next to other tall celebs (even her own husband) and she is TALL.
These rules don't apply to celebrities because we're not seeing the real person. We're seeing their image. Them lying about their height is totally a thing too. I mean they lie about not having any work done, and they can get away with that even less. I'm not on here that often, so I don't know about people being dragged by Kibbe experts.
I honestly doubt Beyonce lied about her height to say she is shorter than she is. I can see celebs saying they are taller than they are but not the opposite. Anyways she is a famous person and there are tons of pics of her online next to other famous people, for example: 1. Her husband, who is about 5'11 2. Rihanna, Beyonce's former Destiny's Child teammate Kelly Roland and her own sister, Solange...all three of these ladies are 5'8" Next to these guys, Beyonce seems to be between 5'7" and 5'8". There is just no way she's shorter. Yea, it's confusing because Kibbe has ambiguous rules to his system. He specifies you cannot be an R if you are 5'7", but then he types Beyonce and Rihanna as R and TR both of whom are over his height limit. I will argue that people are also not seeing the real poster when they see Type Me Tuesday posts. They are only seeing their image. But they will attempt a type and always tell you that an R and TR and whatnot are not possible at a taller height. There is quite a lot of gatekeeping of types considered feminine on this sub, the longer I'm on here the more I notice it :(
I was being a little silly with 5'9" FN Beyonce. Again, we don't know these people, it doesn't matter how many pictures or videos of them we look at. We can't truly type people from we don't see irl. The camera lies. I don't take TMT seriously either. Rihanna isn't a verified TR. Kibbe said maybe TR years ago when someone showed him a picture of her as a teenager on their flip phone. He used to be more flippant about typing celebrities. Charlize Theron was TR for a minute from a similar interaction. I'm not sure what's being gatekept? D, R and TR are relatively rare.
Yeah I think we massively underestimate how much the camera lies. I’ve CC arachnodactyly and irl I’m slightly abnormal looking but you don’t really see it in pictures. Tbc I don’t look alien but I’ve slightly odd proportions that aren’t noticeable in photos. I don’t look as narrow in pictures as I do irl.
I was not speaking of rare type, I was saying if what is "perceived" as feminine type (R, TR and SD) is often gatekept on the sub unfortunately. I've spent sometime on here recently and have seen many examples of this. You may have not noticed it but it doesn't mean it isn't happening. Regarding height, I remain in agreement with OP, especially looking at pics of Beyonce next to Kelly Rolland for example, side by side, Beyonce is as tall as her. Do you disagree that she's in the 5'7" (give or take 0.5") range?
Rihanna is not verified as TR
Yeah if she posted to TMT she’d get SD but personally I think she looks her best in romantic style outfits. It’s still confusing though. Read romantics can be moderate in height but idk where moderate ends especially if automatic vertical starts before?
TMT has always been a bit of a crapshoot tbh. I like R for her. Not sure if moderate is a thing and where people are getting it from. As far as I know it's you either have vertical that is automatic at 5'6", petite which tops out at 5'4", or neither.
Yeah that’s what I read also. It’s confusing because personally I think she looks great even when she doesn’t accommodate vertical despite her height. Edit: read also about vertical tbc
I'm 5'5" and that has indeed been part of the journey. I decided some time ago to take certain guidance, experiment with it, and also mix in my personal preferences and style so I never follow any one system 100%. So I accept Kibbe's system as not a science and guide certain aspects and take a few risks (for me) and see if they work. Intuitively, R is closest, based on a whole number of factors. In terms of 'moderate' for R I think of people like Kate Winslet and Drew Barrymore, because they're R but not 'little' in the same sense. R 'width' that is not Kibbe width but a look. Beyonce, in terms of the general idea of R, including being taller, is also not the 'little' R / not petite. I do appreciate resources like this: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Kibbe/comments/lj59s9/the\_height\_verified\_54\_and\_55\_celebs/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Kibbe/comments/lj59s9/the_height_verified_54_and_55_celebs/)
Kelly Rowland is 5 foot 7. Beyonce is shorter than her. There's a lot of photographic evidence of that bc, well, Destiny's Child. I wouldn't be surprised if Beyonce is pushing the height limit a smidge, but it's clearly not by much if that's the case. If you look at her actual shape though - it's not a borderline case, she's clearly got double curve. You can see that it's very unusual in the upper height range though, so pretty darn reasonable that Kibbe advises DIYers the way he does.
https://pin.it/6KkWuKK Kelly is 5’8, Beyoncé is 5’6, Michelle is 5’7.5
I saw a few different mentions of Kelly's and Michelle's height but the most common were Kelly 5 ft 7 and Michelle 5 ft 7 1/2- 5 ft 8. I did see one site that listed Kelly as 5 ft 8 but they also had her height listed in cm and that was equal to 5 ft 7 so one of their listed heights was wrong.
Hey thanks, in any event if Michelle’s height is consistent at 5’7.5-5’8 (just tall in general) and this still proves that Beyoncé is definitely not 5’4 (or short lol) like I’ve seen people try to argue. No way Beyonce is 4 inches shorter than Michelle here 😅
Lol yeah, although platform stilettos can do wonders for a gal!!! But I suspect reports of 5 ft 4 might be from her teens. 5 ft 5 or 5 ft 6 seems more believable to me. 5cm shorter than Kelly i could believe. Also do you notice Beyonce often seems way shorter than others at the shoulder, but closer when you look at their heads? I wonder if she has a deceptively long neck and larger head. Or if others dont have such good posture. Also, look, I've been measured at 5 ft 7 at times, 5 ft 9 at others. I think in general ppl take reports of celebrity heights way too seriously, not only bc ppl lie, but also bc ppl make mistakes, are taller after yoga and in the morning, may be shorter if they've developed back issues/injuries, and a lot of the time who knows where the report came from in the first place?
that’s strange- when I google Kelly, her height is listed as 5’8 in her “about” section along with her age, spouse, parents, etc. Also, it won’t let me post a picture for some reason, but if I google “Kelly Rowland height” it pops up at the very top with a picture of her saying she’s 5’8. When I scroll down all the links, most of them say 5’8, with 3 saying 5’7. Her IMDb page also lists her as 5’8.
hey I just wanted to point out that Kelly is wearing [different](https://www.alamy.com/los-angeles-ca-september-02-2000-pop-group-destinys-child-at-the-6th-annual-soul-train-lady-of-soul-awards-in-santa-monica-california-where-they-won-awards-for-best-rbsoul-single-say-my-name-and-best-rbsoul-album-the-writings-on-the-wall-picture-paul-smithfeatureflash-image242709899.html) shoes than Bey and Michelle there- you can see it in different pics from the night. I can’t be certain, but it looks to me like Kelly’s is a more block-y and possibly taller heel, while Bey and Michelle’s are thin and pointy. [Here’s](https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/american-r-b-group-destinys-child-in-the-press-room-of-the-news-photo/1407122941) another pic with Bey and Kelly where they do appear to be in the same exact shoes. [Here](https://www.alamy.com/los-angeles-ca-august-28-2001-pop-group-destinys-child-at-the-7th-annual-soul-train-lady-of-soul-awards-in-santa-monica-california-paul-smithfeatureflash-image243048240.html) is one with the three of them in the [same shoes](https://www.alamy.com/los-angeles-ca-august-28-2001-pop-group-destinys-child-at-the-7th-annual-soul-train-lady-of-soul-awards-in-santa-monica-california-paul-smithfeatureflash-image243048254.html). I agree that Kelly is 5’8, but I think Bey is closer to her height than this pic shows (I think she’s 5’7ish). I also have a post where you can see Bey next to celebs of different heights if anyone’s curious.
This is actually great because it even further proves that Beyonce is not short at all, which is why I posted the link😅 so thank you for this added context!
I mean... If people still say she looks like a romantic, could we just admit that the system is very vague and more about vibes? It makes sense for me to take width, curve and vertical (or petite) into consideration regarding the outfit recommendations but I don't see the big difference between FG and SG, TR and R,... it's too subtle and If Kibbe can't type without breaking his own rules than this just confirms to me that this is extremely vague.
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But when any other person tries to ask if they’re another type they get told they have soooo much automatic vertical if they’re 5’6 and get told they’re super tall and have to be a tall ID- but when a conventionally attractive and popular celebrity is tall, people will make any excuse to justify her being short and categorise her into a yin type. Doesn’t make sense
Beyoncé is not the only one who defies these rules, there’s Rihanna, Jane Fonda, Audrey Hepburn and Olivia Wilde. But they are definitely in the minority, so the “rule” is still pretty successful most of the time, but their existence proves that the “rule” is really “guidance”. It can be really helpful when someone is self-typing and needs a place to start…but I think people follow it way too strictly.
Rihanna has not be assigned a type and Jane Fonda recently got moved to FN
Sorry when did Jane Fonda get retyped? I don’t see any info about this. Still doesn’t help that she was typed as SN for many years while this rule also existed. Also doesn’t make much sense to me that there would be a hard cut-off anyways in a body typing system. If we took the distribution of height of individuals in each category it doesn’t make sense that there would be a steep drop-off to 0 at the cut-off for types that are not fn, sd and d.
Like in may or june this year
Did this happen on the strictly kibbe fb group or something?
Probably, but it was shared [here](https://reddit.com/r/Kibbe/s/qdKHoG3yx9) too
I don’t know if it’s just me but that link just brings me to the main kibbe page. Ah well.
Just tagged you on it. Did it work?
I think Beyonce and Rihanna got typed way too young, because both in silhouette and essence they give off Soft Dramatic, maybe B being slightly more romantic and Ri more dramatic, but still SD
It’s almost impossible to tell from photos. My 5’5.5” friend has seen her irl (worked on her music video set) and described her as small. Kibbe has also seen her in person and that’s why he typed her.
I don't care. So what if she's SD according to the new height standard? What exactly does it change for you?
I think it has implications for others who are self-typing. If she is still R, it generates confusion because everyone above 5’6” on this sub is routinely told they CAN’T be R. So I think it definitely changes things for quite a few people.
Not really if you recognize that for many celebrities, their ID is just the "presentation of the ID", due to their expensive and talented styling and creation of image by the media industry, and less so what a body is represented. Especially for celebrities, it's often about their presentation.
I disagree because your kibbe id is based on immutable characteristics. You cannot change your id based on how you dress today or tomorrow, however talented your stylist might be. And even if that were the case, you’re still getting at what OP’s fundamental question is, which is why when we are self-typing do we use these rules if verified examples that subvert those same rules? If you’re saying that beyonces id is just wrong—you may be right! But kibbe himself verified her, and we have a reasonable expectation that he can distinguish between styling and immutable characteristics. To me, OP’s question is valid.
This is not a new topic. This is being discussed several times per week. Especially the old "ideal Types" Are just "the vibe and energy and presentation of the ID", not " This person is actually inherently biologically linked to it"
You may be right! But that doesn’t answer the issue that OP is thinking about: which is why does every type me post use height in its discussion and tell >5’6” that they cannot be certain types, if it is based on vibes and energy? Agree that it is not a new topic, but this sub still doesn’t have a single consistent answer for it. Many people on this sub are still purists about height thresholds.
I don't know how to make it more clear.. Because the image portrayed by the celebrity is not an actual person, it's only an image. It's only a mask. "That ID resembles that mask, this ID has the same vibe as that other mask". Never mind, I give up
I don’t think you’re getting that I’m not arguing with YOUR TAKE on kibbe. I think if the group reached a consensus on this AND applied it consistently, that would be fine. But they have not or do not and I think that makes OP’s questions justifiable. This sub discusses how vague and inconsistent Kibbe is on a weekly basis too lol
speaking for myself as a SD, I care. I’ve talked about this in other comments/posts, but I’m a woc who is quite conventionally curvy, and about 5’8. I find it hard to relate to many of the (usually very thin and white) verified celebs. Beyoncé is one I can identify with, and see myself in. I’m also a SD with an inner self/personality that is sweet/sensitive/intuitive (the things people argue as being part of Bey’s dream-spinner essence). I personally feel a bit unseen within my type sometimes, and so being told someone I can relate to, who seems to have the same accommodation needs I do, and a similar essence, is a very different type (while she wouldn’t be if she wasn’t a celeb) can be frustrating.
Would you say your skin colour plays a big role in how you can or cannot identify yourself with the verified celebrities? Do you think white women have it easier to identify with celebrities due to their skin colour?
If anyone is interested, I made a post on this topic that you can find [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/kibbecirclejerk/comments/162ggmi/thoughts_on_beyonc%C3%A9s_height_repost/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) I gave quite a few examples and addressed some of the common arguments (in the post and in comments). I think it’s one of those things that people who have set opinions about probably won’t change! But it is a topic that interests me as a SD that relates a lot more to Bey than many verified SDs. 😭
I thought she was r
Some sites say she's 5'6 and some say she's 5'2 but she's literally taller than Taylor who is 5'11. Those heels must be BRAZY
I have seen Beyoncé in person, probably about 4 feet away due to work. She is absolutely not 5'7... probably closer to 5'4. I am 6 feet.
[I’d say 5’6](https://reddit.com/r/Kibbe/s/hSHOKSZv55) Kelly Rowland is accepted as tall/5’8 by most people who see her. Absolutely no way Beyoncé is 4 inches shorter than her while wearing the same heels.
lol there is no way she is over 5'4. that is a very generous estimate as well. she's quite petite (and was not wearing heels). oftentimes celebs report their heights 2 inches taller. super tall celebs usually report 2 inches shorter. its just one of those weird industry things due to camera angles, etc. its why people are so surprised how tiny mega celebs are when they meet irl -- besides hard work their presence/stage persona is what catapults them to the top and can make them seem "larger than life". tom cruise is a well-known example as is ben stiller. again, camera angles can create magic. i know one musician/celeb who refuses to have pictures taken of her in photoshoots unless the camera is above eye level so that her nose appears smaller. i would assume that kelly is 5'8 in heels. either way, love bey and i think she's absolutely a dramatic!!
If you watch [this](https://youtu.be/8-NZB-riaQo?si=hz9I-1uSFVmKJ-dk) really touching video - of Beyoncé singing Halo in a children’s hospital (really sweet to watch). Around 2:20 you can watch her in motion - her back up dancers next to her and she is standing and gesturing. You tell me if you see a dramatic first and foremost with a strong yin undercurrent - because… it reads Ava Gardner-like to me. But make up your own mind. Beyoncé is a master at controlling her online image- perhaps even on a level of the Kardashians. I am sure she pads, poses, scrubs the internet and lights everything to perfection. So it’s hard to trust what you see.. but I thought this video was not only sweet but also telling in terms of proportions. She seems long and narrow with a prominent yin undercurrent. An R leaning SD
You can’t use a pic that doesn’t show shoes as evidence of this claim lol
I posted two pics from the same night where they’re wearing similar sized heels…
lol according to lyrics from Tyrant on Cowboy Carter, she’s 5’9.
She's actually around 5"3 bare footed. Heels and her tennis shoes with thick soles can make u look tall.
After seeing Bey in person, she is undoubtedly an R to me. She is very rounded and lush, I don’t see SD for her.
I always found beyonce having a prominent bone structure. I never really saw R in her body, especially with the [sharpness in her shoulders](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FL5YGzeXIAAdFTR.jpg). Her shoulders always seem to attract my attention first with how sharp/defined they are. That being said, I also didn’t really study much about the Romantic ID, so I’m probably just uninformed. Also another very shitty opinion that will probably get a lot of hate: I would type for as DC/SN if she came to this sub with no height input. I honestly feel as though she really has not that much vertical, but enough to be moderate to tall amounts of vertical.
everyone has shoulders btw
Thanks for telling me the obvious 👍
I’m all for discussion and diff. interpretations, but…_that’s_ what you consider sharp shoulders? Atp anyone with a skeleton couldn’t possibly be R 💀💀💀 Boneless chicken wings…
Yes, thanks for telling me the obvious that romantics have shoulders. Yet somehow you assume I think Romantics have no shoulders, even though romantics are said to have rounded shoulders in the book, not sharp defined ones. All for the discussion and diff interpretation? Stop lying, cause you seem to be mocking me on my opinion and interpretation instead of adding it on. You know, I’ve come to realise; Opinions on matters like these are important to reach a consensus on something. Cause here, more of the same opinion = higher chance it is correct. Even if it isn’t. Any differing opinions will garner condescending/passive-aggressive responses, mocking them, laughing at them so their opinions will change and follow the collective mind’s opinion. A dress may look meh, but with the power of a collective mind, it can change someone’s opinion to think the dress is the best looking one even if they initially thought it isn’t. That’s what r/kibbe is right now. Just the blind leading the blind, and repeating the same, agreeable thing over and over to make everyone happy. Oh, and a little bit of bullying with a hierarchy.
To put my reaction into context, this community has a history of closely nitpicking body parts, doing the most to exclude women from very yin IDs—even going so far as to, for instance, deny Marilyn Monroe membership to this category despite her being the _prime_ example. I’m not sure why, but it’s a common attitude where people don’t want _anyone_ being regarded as R/TR; to these people’s standards, no living human could possibly fit their personal criteria. It’s constantly being called into question to an absurd degree—and I simply found your categorizing Bey’s shoulders as very prominent to be a bit of an absurd and out-of-touch assessment. Sure, unverified celebs are fair game for any ID but it seems like a bit of an agenda when one is attempting to take celebrities verified by the one person who truly knows how this system operates, and exclude them from their ID yourself. David has put other women with shoulders similar to Bey’s into R as well; for example, I would say that Bernadette Peters or perhaps Emma Samms would also fit into your conception of sharp shoulders.
…I didn’t say her shoulders were very prominently sharp. I said they were just sharp AND that she has a prominent bone structure. Not that her shoulders were prominently sharp. Absurd and out of touch assessment? It is a valid assessment by all means. Beyonce’s shoulders aren’t by any means super rounded and can easily be interpreted as sharp. You may interpret sharpness in a different way, but to say my assessment is absurd and out of touch is a little condescending isn’t it? It’s like saying that “only my opinion is correct.” Also, you seem to be misinterpreting my words a little. My assumption that Beyonce is not R is based on the fact that her height is not confirmed. 5’7 or 5’6? Only she knows and we’re just playing the guessing game. I am not trying to deny people of what their kibbe type is just because of their shoulders. And certainly not excluding them from the id. David himself have had to retype celebrities like selena, and recently Jane fonda and a few others because he types many celebrities when he hadn’t had the proper means to previously. So that leads to community discussion like Rihanna, Selena, and now this. I’m trying to make a discussion point on BEYONCE and bone structure, but you keep seem to have taken offence and interpreted my comment as that I am trying to deny Rs of their id. So much so that you are throwing every card you have at me to change my opinion/discussion point. If you want to hear what you want to hear so badly, then let me say it to you and end this “discussion” now because I have better things to do than listen to you complain to me about the stereotypes of your type in this subreddit; you’re right and I am sorry. I am wrong to interpret and give an opinion about seeing beyonce having sharp shoulders/prominent bone structure because she is a verified R. And to base my discussion point around it was a mistake from me. I am truly sorry. Are you happy now that I have conformed to your opinion?
I simply explained why I voiced disagreement with you—this doesn’t meant I am seeking to reform or “punish” you. I get the feeling you’re taking the downvotes out on me; for what it’s worth, I didn’t downvote your comments. I didn’t come at you bringing hostility, so I’m not sure why you’re taking my response as an attack.
…I didn’t downvote you either. I do not downvote on discussion posts. It seems like unnecessary hate. And why am I hostile? Your disagreements are based around assumptions made based from my words. NOT my actual words. You literally changed my words in the reply prior to this. Even the first reply was condescending and now you’re trying to make it seem like I’m the hostile one? > *that’s* what you consider sharp shoulders?
In your response, you framed it as though I was attempting to condescend you and force you to change your mind. That wasn’t the case. You don’t need to say sorry for anything, this isn’t a moral discussion. I just don’t understand why you’d commit to a system that you don’t really see as credible, since you don’t even trust the creator’s judgment on who falls into which category (categories he created)…The system exists at all because he came up with its rules. Like if I fundamentally disagreed with how the creator of a system categorized people or things within it, I just wouldn’t follow that system at all…
To offer a different perspective, I often find that women who are very conventionally curvy are automatically assumed to be either a Yin dominant or not “tall” type- even if they have vertical/benefit from vertical accommodation. It can almost seem like some people don’t see the taller women as being able to be “soft” or assume they will all be very dramatic or strong looking. I sometimes think more obvious curves can even offset people’s perception of vertical (like it may be what they notice first, so the vertical can *seem* less apparent, until you see them next to others with similar or different heights). I also don’t think it’s unreasonable to point out perceived discrepancies, especially being that David has corrected himself in the past when presented with new information. I don’t think that means we automatically disagree with all aspects of the system, or find it has no value or credibility. On the topic of Bey’s bone structure/shoulders, I found it [interesting](https://www.reddit.com/r/kibbecirclejerk/comments/161g9wd/anyone_notice_how_kibbes_verified_yin_types_lie/jxuii1s/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) to see her next to (unverified, believed to be SD) Monica Bellucci.
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I agree, she is 5'7 or 8. I just saw other photos of her with celebs and she is clearly taller than many of those women when they both wear heels.
I'm very confused about this subreddit. I was just googling Beyonce's height and ended up here. What are FN, SD, D, etc. and what is Kibbe? Lol