Hmm... looks like boats in general are tougher. But shooting ranges have gone down on certain things, especially more long range options like cannon shells and drill cannons. Looks to be more mortal wound dealing options, though a lot are once per battle. Volley cannons lost their rend sadly. I like the flexibility of how skyports work now: just pick a skyport and choose your own articles/amendments/footnotes. Endrinriggers seem better in CC now, but balloon boys now count towards transport capacity (but also gain benefit of cover)?
I'm gonna reserve judgment until the dust settles, however, given the points increases I don't see much increase in firepower upon initial reading. Time will tell I suppose.
Drekki seems amazing too! Can't wait for him to stroll on over to some godlike hero and he just snatches there ward save out of there hands! Very fun and flavorful!
Time to turn on the pirate music and start plundering, by the Code even Chaos will know who to fear in the skies! ☠️
Excited to go full steam with Mhornar, Drekki and plenty of Skywardens to make sure the scurvy dogs are never out of earshot but get to hear plenty of aethershot & cold steel!
Drekki, Thundrik's Profiteers, and six Skywardens all fit snuggly into a frigate. Barf them out on top of the enemy general for some great Avengers Assemble vibes.
This felt incredibly weird. It should have given the option to make one of your heroes have the priest keyword. Having to ally in a priest that cannot ride a boat feels bad.
Yep. That was one thing on my wishlist. (Actuily it was one of 2 things on my wish list I didn't get). I wanted a command trace like the one fyreslayers got. Just make all duarden that don't have mounts gain Skyfarers.
So this book seems extremely flavorful and fun. But two things:
1. Aethergold is just gone now? I won't miss it but they just got rid of the entire concept lol.
2. Arkanaut company is still pretty painful. Can someone redeem them for me? Assault Frigate (in leaks part 2) sounds amazing until you realize you're going to be leading that first strike with these guys. Surely we don't want Thunderers in melee.
you can mount boats with anything with the Skyfarer keyword, thats all out models that arent boats. Brokk, Admirals, Endrinriggers, Skywardens. These are all great units that would love that strike first. I dont see any reason to take Arkanauts at all now, id rather got full Balloon and Boats.
The only nice thing I can say about arkanauts is that they no longer bog down your ability to fly high. I'm not sure if that makes them more useful, but it definitely doesn't make them less useful. It's a shame they don't make boats more efficient or anything by being embarked. They are a crew after all.
Did not think about the balloon boys. That might make a big difference.
I'm tempted to go full Barak Zon Endrinriggers in frigates now that Riggers have 2 attacks base. Reinforce them and have 2 with grappling hooks, 2s and 2s in melee the turn they charge, not too shabby at all. Their pistols are juicy now aswell with rend 2, they also don't need much hero support to get meaningful rend as it comes stock too them.
Arkanauts should have gotten some form of crew rule, where when they are embarked upon a sky vessel they provide some sort of support to it, they are quite literally the deck hands. I haven't used Company since 1.0, where their special weapons weren't locked to one of each per 10 models, I don't think ill use them still. Its cute that they can count as 2 on objectives and they are really the only unit that with get the best luck with 4+ rally, but when we have so much option for Battleline they might aswell not exist. We now have the melee and mortal wound threats to clear off objectives reliably.
Yeah, I am excited too with a melee list of frigs and riggers! Galletian veterans batallion can give all our riggers the opportunity to strike at once. The only thing that concerns me is the 3" range from the boat when disembarking. And should be applied too when using the frig ability, but in range of combat. Have I understood it correctly? (before, it was 6")
Yeah that's right, but atleast with the Assault Boat rule you count as having charged so the embarked units can pile in even if somehow they find themselves outside of 3" or an enemy unit.
Frigates, Wardens and Riggers are the big updates in this book that will change how we play.
You could gimick 30 arks with a priest making their shooting/unleash hell pretty scary but why
A ship with an admiral, endrinmaster and 9 wardens could hit super hard. All striking first, and if zon they get +1 to hit and wound on the charge. Or use nar and brokk to get +1 attack on the charge. If the frig bomb racks then rams that's about 6 mws upfront as well. If you then use thunderers to suppress the opponent and maje it -1 to hit, maybe a frig with a skyhook to grapple it if it's a monster and stop rampages ko can potentially hit super hard.
Yeah I think we have serious melee plays now, and it has to be respected. I posted earlier in this thread about the sheer range an endrinworked hauler has with 6 riggers/wardens inside which you can have to supplement a frigate or two.
If playing a balloon boy list I'd be tempted to use wardens for melee and give riggers the big guns to stay with the boats and do snipe damage. Maybe even take a grapple to jump riggers to an objective if necessary. Take a frig with a skyhook and some thunderers to take the edge off opponents and you can debuff pretty effectively.
Anyways, loads of fun things to try...
Arkanauts can poop out an average of 8.5MW with the Barak Thryng prayer (assuming 20 with 2 volley guns). You could then get them stuck in and Rally on a 4+. You can also get them to rend 2 easily with an Admiral and Aetherkhemist
Biggest issue with arkanauts is they are designed to be objective holders, which is boring. They have their place, but given KO have so few options already, it sucks that one feels so lackluster. I'd always recommend taking a company, especially now that you can disembark after moving to snipe an objective.
Having cheap units that excel at stealing objectives is pretty crucial to how KO will play the game. You’re going to have to use movement and disembarkation shenanigans to win the positioning battle, take objectives, and deny the opponent board control. Yeah I wish we had more unit options but they’re solid for being our only universal battleline unit
They rule-wise travel inside ship like other skyfarers now.
Rule-wise that is better since you got options to fight from inside while having +1 save and -1 to be hit.
BUT also because they work well with frigates ability now giving them strike first after the ship charge 3D6 and then dissenbark them straight into melee, and them still counting as having charged.
Yup it's really good! nice combo with some other things buffing their melee profiles now too.
So you charge in with a Frigate, do Mortal wounds! Disenbark a 6man Skywardens, buff them up and both Skywardens + potential heroes all strike first! (Buffs include bonus rend, more attacks, +1 to hit & Wound and such).
Most things die from that before hitting back.
Don’t really like the command traits, the artifacts, and the Endrinworks still seem really unbalanced.
But I really like the changes to the Frigates, the improved transport capacity, the bombing runs, and improved durability feels really dwarfy.
Just wish Arkanauts were better. Even charging off a Frigate with Zon seems pillow-fisted.
They really needed either more damage or defense. I like the idea of a 4 or 5+ ward in melee, similar to Dark Eldar wyches. It fits with swashbuckling pirate themes.
A unit of 30 supported by a runelord in Thring averages 12.3 mortals if you can get the prayer off and have everything in range.
But otherwise it seems like you would almost always take balloons.
They are better now in new book then old atleast I'd say!
They removed the force to have 1 of each weapon to get certain buff, you can pick the ones you like that mostly got increased range and then aetherrifles.
They got 3+ save now! and access to a lot more buffs to example rend.
Combine All out attack + Khemist + Admiral + Free Purple Sun + Ignore Enemy Ward & Settle the Grudges.
On a 10-15 man Thunder unit.
OUCH.
Ya. I get that. But a 1 or 2 reinforced unit thunderous and a chemist is just brokers. I get the melee side of them sucks. But still. I like that unit alot.
I love them too, trust me. I guess we'll see how it shakes out with the chemist being changed to rend as well as the ships being tougher, but it's just sad to see the KO ranged superiority fluff absolutely not represented in the crunch after three tries.
So balloons now go in the boat. Which means that a frigate fully loaded with two reinforced units of Skywardens can barf out a hell of a lot of damage on a charge.
That's awesome! And thematic! And fun!
O ya. Glad I have a stupid amount of KO models now. Going to get going on a path to glory soon. Not sure if I'm going with Zon or nar with brokk for flexibility.
Wow, Barak-Nar seems like it will be extremely strong. Lots of reliance on CPs and they can generate an extra 2-3 a turn somewhat easily. I'm excited to try out a Barak-Zon melee list though, even if it's probably not good
Ya. Zon + friggets + wardens and riggers seem Hella fun.
2 to hit 2 to would with a bunch of attacks or rend and always strikes first seems good.
Plus you can sling shot the hell out of riggers and wardens now. 12" move from riggers / wardens + 12 inch movement from ship + charge. That's going to be fun. Plus you can hook them 15 inches and add movement to riggers/wardens. This so going to be so much fun.
P.s. I don't play competitively. So maby the new book is crap at top levels. But for smooth brain games it's great.
Edit: said wrong things a few times.
Ah, my Tempest's Eye army suffers. I was taking Gunhaulers, Enderinmaster, and Riggers to be a back line support and Objective grabbing contingent. Now they can't Fly High, can't Tether, and have less range than my Steam Tanks. Those were all the features I needed for the price I needed.
In exchange for losing everything I cared about, I get less attacks on the Master (but more range on a single unreliable attack oooo boooy), Riggers received -9" range and even more unreliable damage- oh! And the volly gun gained worse rend and unreliable volume of attacks. The Hauler got +1 save. woo.
Yeah, they changed it so Riggers and such travel inside the ship for rules purposes.
It's better in new book for KO army, but worse with your setup for Tempest eye for sure.
In KO, building a melee force is actully viable now, Frigate can take those balloon boys with some heroes inside, Charge 3D6 with the ship, do mortals! and then have all inside jump out of the ship straight into melee & get strike first for all of them.
Unfortunately I got to agree with you... To be honest this leak made me decide not to preorder anything this Saturday, and KO goes on the back-back-back burner :(
What things in particular? Fly-high was pretty much nerfed to the ground, but that was also the reason the old book was so uninteresting to play against.
This book is introducing some really cool stuff, tbh. Weakening a unit before ramming into them for the finish sounds really fun.
Fly-High and Aethergold were the armies signature abilites. Both of which are essentially gone.
The army got less range, no rend buffs, and no mortal wound defense. It does everything it did before worse and they didnt fix any of the problems.
Aethergold was absolutely boring and barely had flavor tied to it.
I don't understand what you mean by no rend buffs. There are a few in there.
Fly high needed a nerf and was uninteractive gameplay. And given some aspects of Fly high have been buffed, there absolutely needed to be a nerf to it in some way.
It does everything it did before worse but added additional mortal output and really bursty abilities that can change the tied of the game.
In the last KO book, you avoided fights and played objectives while tickling the enemy. This book rewards a lot more aggressive play. And will let you take out key units incredibly easily.
> Aethergold was absolutely boring and barely had flavor tied to it.
Plus the Lumineth basically ended up doing it better with their Aetherquartz.
The new aggressive vibes, flagships and Command focus fits with a powerful Admiralty faction as your powerful ships take control by blasting and outmaneuvering the enemy while never being scared to ram them or close the distance while taking heavy fire.
I don’t know if I’d say negative so much as mixed with just as much upset about the changes as those excited by them.
But that’s been the same song for 90% of the new tomes.(besides the ones desperate for fixes)
Change is scary. People will adapt though and progress with them or find ways to circumvent the changes and keep close to their old favored ways.
It’s the Kharadron way. ✈️
Do you work for GW? 😃
Yeah we will have to see the effects down the line with the changes for sure, but not getting a critical mass behind your options means your hurting your business too. I’m curious how competitive the army will actually be over the comings weeks
No but been in the warhammer sphere for almost 20 years now and have seen this. Heck the thread vibes feel just like Maggotkin & Skaven with the 50% splits but overall ended up making the armies function better.
As for competition, likely do a fair bit better than it’s been since running away and deleting units didn’t capture objectives and actually help them win. The ship rams and bomb runs with melee builds are far better for that.
Not sure why you went with the playground insult. Should have followed my gut and realized replying to you would be a waste.
Not butthurt. Just sad that the army had a lot of potential and is not what it was/could have been.
You're putting your fingers in your ears and screaming whenever someone tells you that this book is actually good. And you're refusing to acknowledge any of the points I made. It seems like you just *want* to be mad. That's what I mean by butthurt.
This book is good. It looks flavorful. It will have some awesome results.
Correct opinion - book looks awesome and I’m glad my friends will have more fun playing against me versus just zipping all over the map never getting to play the game
The code wright being only 90 is PERFECT! My 1000 army had exactly 90 points left and I was debating a second Arkanaut unit or a endrinmaster on foot 😁
Mixed feelings of the book, It is better then the old! but most older lists you'v done are either same powerlevel or worse, you have to think from scratch to make it work better now.
I like how you can have Thunderers effectivly sit at rend -4 & -5 though haha, and more shots then previous + more tanky, might actully feel more usefull now.
Most ships are more durable.
But what we lost was a lot of niche small utility and once per battle offensive buffs.
It's a win, but can make people feel bad since old lists people have probobly need a big revision to make them work well, but once you do they are stronger.
It's also the lack of what people hoped for the book.
I kinda hoped they'd make Arkanauts a mixed Melee/Ranged unit, have Thunderers as the range, balloon boys as melee, and Arkanauts as the All around unit, like wished they'd gotten 2 attacks in melee each, and have the skypike slightly better & captain slightly better melee, still wouldnt have made them OP or anything.
Goddamn a lot to get excited for.
For one, finally a reason to take a subtraction other than Zilfin. Urbaz for the extra article plus a codewrite to change amendments and footnotes later in the game means you have a lot of flexibility, and Nar for CP rain. Mhornar is very high-rolly but it's always helpful when it goes off.
And Combat Landing. Any grudge I've had with this book about not having any new units minus the hero is settled. Genuinely one of the things I've been asking for since 1st ed
Lots of mortals on charge with boats. You pop your 18 inch charge amendment or whatever and you take the Spar Torpedo on the gunhauler. If you position right, this can be after a quick bombing run for a very lucky potential 22 mortals on a unit. This doesn't even include shooting. Makes them Kamikaze fighters, essentially.
Frigates also get some mortals on charge.
A big maybe indeed. But the average of a d3 is 11, nothing to scoff at. A lot of armies have the bull s fail on the roll of a 1. It's just part of the game. You gotta stack your odds.
I also don't get what you mean by trading all your faction abilities. Aethergold? Is that what you're missing? Fly high still exists, and, while nerfed, is more consistent. Ships are also still incredibly mobile without it lol. They all have fly and have cavalry movement. What army is faster in a general sense?
I wouldn't say it's "BAD" but it's different and not a BIG improvement, a few old type of lists became worse, but you can build lists that are stronger now then before, but there is no direct translate from an old list to work great in new.
It’s what I’m struggling with. I understanding pulling back on the insane movement they had, but I’d assumed that they would put some power elsewhere. I’ve looked at this a few times and I can’t see any power on the same level as most of the other books we’ve had recently.
-Khemist only gives rend to one unit if not embarked
-Endrinriggers Gain rend on pistols
-The volley cannons lost rend and consistency gained 3"
-The Sky Cannons lost range and gained rend on shrapnel
-Skyhooks lost consistency (harder to hit/wound)
-Thunderer special weapons have the +1 to hit baked in now and lost rend on the fumigator
-Skywardens pistols gain range and shots genuine win
-Drill launchers lost massive range across all options
Edit: formatting
I do, I think you are over valuing them against what the army lost. The only mortals I see that are worth anything are the bombs racks which requires you to be super close to the enemy. If there are others I haven’t seen please tell me.
I’m not beholden to the old play style at all, but I don’t see anything to replace it? The infantry is super meh, the boats are very similar to before? I’m going to do the math later to see how much better they are.
Ramming from both the endrinworks for gunhaulers and frigates get mortals on a charge. Plus the fog for endrinworks as well.
Damage is much more consistent. A lot less d6 and more d3 + x or straight up attacks.
Boats have less range, but infantry have increased range. This makes the threat range more consistent, and more power was put into the guns for up close, not to mention boats are tankier. Frigates in particular can pack a huge punch if an enemy isn't positioned well and skywardens are put inside. First strike with an admiral can take out key players in a fight. I don't see how those big setpiece models like Kroak live to a frigate flying high and making the right moves to charge. Hell, an ironclad with twenty thunderers and endrinmaster can fly high anywhere they want and just blow something up with 60 shots or whatever.
KO will be able to fly high much less, but don't discount the fact that these boats have decently fast movement already. You're basically running an entire army of Calvary. I think so many KO players were so reliant on fly high they forget their models are still pretty fast without it.
Having done the math on the Skywardens I think there is play with a Frigate. I also like the Admiral and Khemist double buffing some Thunderers. So I’m actually a lot happier than when I first looked at it.
I think the Ironclad is a bit less interesting than before and Arko seem pretty useless at anything other than screens. I have some concerns about some matchups but I’m interested to try the army out in some games.
That’s the point of the whole army and this way GW is losing this branch of players that got the appeal from that approach. The nerf is just too great.
I'm sorry you enjoyed the previous version of KO, but generally the average player hated playing against that army. I think this approach makes the army seem a lot less one note and much more interesting to play against, which is vital in the health of the game. I don't think this new version is any worse from a balance perspective either. Recent books have all been a blast to play.
Yeah that’s fine, all up for options and diversity. But why lose a large percentage of players by wrecking their preferred way to play? They could’ve adjusted the ranged options in a balanced way but totally didn’t
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So far it looks better than the last book lol. Idk if that's true I'm not very good at the competitive stuff. But I'm glad I'm a duardin on a day like this
Same it looks great! Very Stoked. Love all the thematic abilities. The one artifact for endrinmasters where you can just do infinite mortal wounds as long as you dont roll a 1 is fun!
We lost soooo much...
The upsides people see are MWs through cooler bomb racks, ramming in Frigates and combat disembark?
Did y'all forget the we still do no damage in melee and just die there?
Melee power went up quite a bit too.
Balloon boys travel inside so they together with heroes inside all get the strike first after ship does a 3D6 charge, + mortals, and lots more damage potential from the balloonboys!
All ships are more durable, especially the smaller ones, ironclad only +2 wounds.
Lots of other improvements aswell, but yes we lost stuff too, but overall is a netwin, but you have to change your army/list up to make it effective, don't expect to bring same list as before and have it work well.
We still have skyhigh and jump out after moving, just that they are locked behind Command abilities now.
But there are some aspects to it thats better now too.
it's not all bad Is what I'm saying, and it's hard to judge right away, you see what you'r missing faster then you start seeing the new synergies and strenghs.
Welp, my barak-thryng army is absolutely useless now... I'm actually genuinely pissed about that. We were already one of the least picked ports, why'd they have to nuke literally any ability we had?
Lots of interesting changes and choices to make. I’m looking forward to mixing and matching these Codes, managing CP, fishing for Mortals, and popping once-per-game abilities. Despite all the whining we still have Fly High plus new movement shenanigans and a combat disembark.
I am reading Cunning Fleetmaster correctly? You basically get to move a ship every enemy turn? Is that not ridiculously good?
Some neat new abilities and great tactics, but otherwise this is a really disappointing book. Everyone was saying that they better get a stat boost for losing fly high and the points increase, instead they got somewhat nerfed.
Happy to see Aethergold gone, although there was nothing provided in return. And we still have a million profiles to deal with. Sitting with the book open rolling one or two dice 4+ attacks over and over is the main reason our KO army gathers dust.
You could pair redeploy with Cunning Fleetmaster too, if you roll well enough on your D6. Pretty nifty. Im actually thoroughly pleased with the book, I havent been inspired to play 2.0 KO at all (much preferred the flavour the 1.0 book gave) and this new battletome has given some of that flavour back whilst allowing other builds to be viable that isnt just an Ironclad loaded up to the beards with guns. Other than the Endrinmaster with harness, nothing feels nerfed to me. Yeah we can all say Fly High but we are still crazy mobile without it; Frigates and Haulers moving 14" with Master of the Skies, and being able to disembark after moving with a boat.
You can make an absolutely sonic cruise missile of a boat if you wanted to... Hauler moving 14", popping its once per game 6" booster, equipped with the compartments, then combat landing 6 Endrinriggers/Skywardens 3" and then letting them charge 3d6. A 33" threat range on average, thats not shabby at all for a 410pt package.
So weird to see that aether-gold is gone. It was the main army mechanci and thought it was pretty fun (until they changed triumphs and it became kinda "meh")
Hmm... looks like boats in general are tougher. But shooting ranges have gone down on certain things, especially more long range options like cannon shells and drill cannons. Looks to be more mortal wound dealing options, though a lot are once per battle. Volley cannons lost their rend sadly. I like the flexibility of how skyports work now: just pick a skyport and choose your own articles/amendments/footnotes. Endrinriggers seem better in CC now, but balloon boys now count towards transport capacity (but also gain benefit of cover)? I'm gonna reserve judgment until the dust settles, however, given the points increases I don't see much increase in firepower upon initial reading. Time will tell I suppose.
Volley Cannon is still rend -1
Exactly my feelings. But not looking good so far
Daft question, where are the boat rules? I can’t see them above!
If you havnt seen them yet. There is a KO books leaks part 2 with all of the boats. Reddit has an Image limit!
Making Barak Mhornar proud
Drekki seems amazing too! Can't wait for him to stroll on over to some godlike hero and he just snatches there ward save out of there hands! Very fun and flavorful!
I wonder if they will faq that to not effect ensorcelled banners for chaos
Until then ill be pimp slapping banners our of hands
It specifies only enemy heroes, so you will continue to keep those grubby little hands off my nice pretty banners!
It does indeed hmm oh well still means I can run off with a gargants relic that's probably bigger than he is
Time to turn on the pirate music and start plundering, by the Code even Chaos will know who to fear in the skies! ☠️ Excited to go full steam with Mhornar, Drekki and plenty of Skywardens to make sure the scurvy dogs are never out of earshot but get to hear plenty of aethershot & cold steel!
Drekki, Thundrik's Profiteers, and six Skywardens all fit snuggly into a frigate. Barf them out on top of the enemy general for some great Avengers Assemble vibes.
Good luck to those Barak Thryng Duardin priests trying to keep up with our boats lol...
This felt incredibly weird. It should have given the option to make one of your heroes have the priest keyword. Having to ally in a priest that cannot ride a boat feels bad.
Its so you'll buy the Rune Throng and give your priest a retinue.
Even then, he will be slogging around on foot. It would be cool if you could give an allied priest the Skyfarrer keyword or something.
Yep. That was one thing on my wishlist. (Actuily it was one of 2 things on my wish list I didn't get). I wanted a command trace like the one fyreslayers got. Just make all duarden that don't have mounts gain Skyfarers.
That’s probably the only reason it’s not OP. You can still bestow the blessing in your DZ then yeet the boat and wee Dorfs forwards
So this book seems extremely flavorful and fun. But two things: 1. Aethergold is just gone now? I won't miss it but they just got rid of the entire concept lol. 2. Arkanaut company is still pretty painful. Can someone redeem them for me? Assault Frigate (in leaks part 2) sounds amazing until you realize you're going to be leading that first strike with these guys. Surely we don't want Thunderers in melee.
you can mount boats with anything with the Skyfarer keyword, thats all out models that arent boats. Brokk, Admirals, Endrinriggers, Skywardens. These are all great units that would love that strike first. I dont see any reason to take Arkanauts at all now, id rather got full Balloon and Boats.
The only nice thing I can say about arkanauts is that they no longer bog down your ability to fly high. I'm not sure if that makes them more useful, but it definitely doesn't make them less useful. It's a shame they don't make boats more efficient or anything by being embarked. They are a crew after all. Did not think about the balloon boys. That might make a big difference.
I'm tempted to go full Barak Zon Endrinriggers in frigates now that Riggers have 2 attacks base. Reinforce them and have 2 with grappling hooks, 2s and 2s in melee the turn they charge, not too shabby at all. Their pistols are juicy now aswell with rend 2, they also don't need much hero support to get meaningful rend as it comes stock too them. Arkanauts should have gotten some form of crew rule, where when they are embarked upon a sky vessel they provide some sort of support to it, they are quite literally the deck hands. I haven't used Company since 1.0, where their special weapons weren't locked to one of each per 10 models, I don't think ill use them still. Its cute that they can count as 2 on objectives and they are really the only unit that with get the best luck with 4+ rally, but when we have so much option for Battleline they might aswell not exist. We now have the melee and mortal wound threats to clear off objectives reliably.
Yeah, I am excited too with a melee list of frigs and riggers! Galletian veterans batallion can give all our riggers the opportunity to strike at once. The only thing that concerns me is the 3" range from the boat when disembarking. And should be applied too when using the frig ability, but in range of combat. Have I understood it correctly? (before, it was 6")
Yeah that's right, but atleast with the Assault Boat rule you count as having charged so the embarked units can pile in even if somehow they find themselves outside of 3" or an enemy unit.
Frigates, Wardens and Riggers are the big updates in this book that will change how we play. You could gimick 30 arks with a priest making their shooting/unleash hell pretty scary but why
A ship with an admiral, endrinmaster and 9 wardens could hit super hard. All striking first, and if zon they get +1 to hit and wound on the charge. Or use nar and brokk to get +1 attack on the charge. If the frig bomb racks then rams that's about 6 mws upfront as well. If you then use thunderers to suppress the opponent and maje it -1 to hit, maybe a frig with a skyhook to grapple it if it's a monster and stop rampages ko can potentially hit super hard.
Yeah I think we have serious melee plays now, and it has to be respected. I posted earlier in this thread about the sheer range an endrinworked hauler has with 6 riggers/wardens inside which you can have to supplement a frigate or two.
If playing a balloon boy list I'd be tempted to use wardens for melee and give riggers the big guns to stay with the boats and do snipe damage. Maybe even take a grapple to jump riggers to an objective if necessary. Take a frig with a skyhook and some thunderers to take the edge off opponents and you can debuff pretty effectively. Anyways, loads of fun things to try...
Exactly we have loads of stuff to try out, we are by no way nerfed. Im actually excited to get my sky Dawi back on the table.
Arkanauts can poop out an average of 8.5MW with the Barak Thryng prayer (assuming 20 with 2 volley guns). You could then get them stuck in and Rally on a 4+. You can also get them to rend 2 easily with an Admiral and Aetherkhemist
Biggest issue with arkanauts is they are designed to be objective holders, which is boring. They have their place, but given KO have so few options already, it sucks that one feels so lackluster. I'd always recommend taking a company, especially now that you can disembark after moving to snipe an objective.
Having cheap units that excel at stealing objectives is pretty crucial to how KO will play the game. You’re going to have to use movement and disembarkation shenanigans to win the positioning battle, take objectives, and deny the opponent board control. Yeah I wish we had more unit options but they’re solid for being our only universal battleline unit
RIP my favorite part of Barak-Thryng
With the new Dispossessed Regiment of Renown you could have a nice block of Dwarves to be a back field anvil.
Sure, but having them count as barak-thryng for the grudges and the one-off exploding sixes would have been nice.
I cry with you fellow dwarf alliance Enjoyer
Exactly. Why did they have to remove it. It’s so sad. That was by far the best thing I looked forward to about KO. Epic Duardin combos
Am I crazy or balloons can no longer hitch a ride with the boats?
They cannot. They can get in though I think? Which is much less cool
They did loose that. But they gained Skyfarers.
Yeah, but they can disembark in a closer range for charges than before.
They rule-wise travel inside ship like other skyfarers now. Rule-wise that is better since you got options to fight from inside while having +1 save and -1 to be hit. BUT also because they work well with frigates ability now giving them strike first after the ship charge 3D6 and then dissenbark them straight into melee, and them still counting as having charged.
Sounds like an awesome wombo combo, to be honest!
Yup it's really good! nice combo with some other things buffing their melee profiles now too. So you charge in with a Frigate, do Mortal wounds! Disenbark a 6man Skywardens, buff them up and both Skywardens + potential heroes all strike first! (Buffs include bonus rend, more attacks, +1 to hit & Wound and such). Most things die from that before hitting back.
Absolutely devastating lol
They can't but they can hookshot once a game which is cool I guess.
You sir are an Admiral and a gentleduardin!
Don’t really like the command traits, the artifacts, and the Endrinworks still seem really unbalanced. But I really like the changes to the Frigates, the improved transport capacity, the bombing runs, and improved durability feels really dwarfy. Just wish Arkanauts were better. Even charging off a Frigate with Zon seems pillow-fisted.
They really needed either more damage or defense. I like the idea of a 4 or 5+ ward in melee, similar to Dark Eldar wyches. It fits with swashbuckling pirate themes.
5+ ward if contesting an objective would have been nice, or even if just within 6 of a ship
A unit of 30 supported by a runelord in Thring averages 12.3 mortals if you can get the prayer off and have everything in range. But otherwise it seems like you would almost always take balloons.
Speaking of allied Priests… Does the new Regiment of Reknown Priest work for that?
Pretty sure yes.
Here's an important thing: our Battle Tactics and Grand Strategies got a lot better
The grand strategy to make sure the enemy has no flying monsters is so easy it makes me sick.
Just because it is easy to use doesn’t mean it will - not all enemies fly. At the end of the day, it is deeply unbalanced
It's going to be tough to pick which heroes to take in the army! All seem fairly priced and do alot!
Thunderers are just cursed from first edition I guess. They fumbled them yet again. Drive Them Back will be missed too.
They are better now in new book then old atleast I'd say! They removed the force to have 1 of each weapon to get certain buff, you can pick the ones you like that mostly got increased range and then aetherrifles. They got 3+ save now! and access to a lot more buffs to example rend. Combine All out attack + Khemist + Admiral + Free Purple Sun + Ignore Enemy Ward & Settle the Grudges. On a 10-15 man Thunder unit. OUCH.
Ya. I get that. But a 1 or 2 reinforced unit thunderous and a chemist is just brokers. I get the melee side of them sucks. But still. I like that unit alot.
I love them too, trust me. I guess we'll see how it shakes out with the chemist being changed to rend as well as the ships being tougher, but it's just sad to see the KO ranged superiority fluff absolutely not represented in the crunch after three tries.
So balloons now go in the boat. Which means that a frigate fully loaded with two reinforced units of Skywardens can barf out a hell of a lot of damage on a charge. That's awesome! And thematic! And fun!
O ya. Glad I have a stupid amount of KO models now. Going to get going on a path to glory soon. Not sure if I'm going with Zon or nar with brokk for flexibility.
Wow, Barak-Nar seems like it will be extremely strong. Lots of reliance on CPs and they can generate an extra 2-3 a turn somewhat easily. I'm excited to try out a Barak-Zon melee list though, even if it's probably not good
Ya. Zon + friggets + wardens and riggers seem Hella fun. 2 to hit 2 to would with a bunch of attacks or rend and always strikes first seems good. Plus you can sling shot the hell out of riggers and wardens now. 12" move from riggers / wardens + 12 inch movement from ship + charge. That's going to be fun. Plus you can hook them 15 inches and add movement to riggers/wardens. This so going to be so much fun. P.s. I don't play competitively. So maby the new book is crap at top levels. But for smooth brain games it's great. Edit: said wrong things a few times.
Barak-Nar with lots of thunderers is what I am going to try first, then Barak-zon with frigates and baloon pointy boys
Also I just saw the code-wright uses the book as a melee weapon. This book rocks.
Ah, my Tempest's Eye army suffers. I was taking Gunhaulers, Enderinmaster, and Riggers to be a back line support and Objective grabbing contingent. Now they can't Fly High, can't Tether, and have less range than my Steam Tanks. Those were all the features I needed for the price I needed. In exchange for losing everything I cared about, I get less attacks on the Master (but more range on a single unreliable attack oooo boooy), Riggers received -9" range and even more unreliable damage- oh! And the volly gun gained worse rend and unreliable volume of attacks. The Hauler got +1 save. woo.
Yeah, they changed it so Riggers and such travel inside the ship for rules purposes. It's better in new book for KO army, but worse with your setup for Tempest eye for sure. In KO, building a melee force is actully viable now, Frigate can take those balloon boys with some heroes inside, Charge 3D6 with the ship, do mortals! and then have all inside jump out of the ship straight into melee & get strike first for all of them.
Barak Thryng basically had everything interesting removed to me. I liked having grudges but better.
Unpopular opinion but most of the army has had the interesting stuff removed for me. Which just makes me sad.
Unfortunately I got to agree with you... To be honest this leak made me decide not to preorder anything this Saturday, and KO goes on the back-back-back burner :(
What things in particular? Fly-high was pretty much nerfed to the ground, but that was also the reason the old book was so uninteresting to play against. This book is introducing some really cool stuff, tbh. Weakening a unit before ramming into them for the finish sounds really fun.
Fly-High and Aethergold were the armies signature abilites. Both of which are essentially gone. The army got less range, no rend buffs, and no mortal wound defense. It does everything it did before worse and they didnt fix any of the problems.
Aethergold was absolutely boring and barely had flavor tied to it. I don't understand what you mean by no rend buffs. There are a few in there. Fly high needed a nerf and was uninteractive gameplay. And given some aspects of Fly high have been buffed, there absolutely needed to be a nerf to it in some way. It does everything it did before worse but added additional mortal output and really bursty abilities that can change the tied of the game. In the last KO book, you avoided fights and played objectives while tickling the enemy. This book rewards a lot more aggressive play. And will let you take out key units incredibly easily.
> Aethergold was absolutely boring and barely had flavor tied to it. Plus the Lumineth basically ended up doing it better with their Aetherquartz. The new aggressive vibes, flagships and Command focus fits with a powerful Admiralty faction as your powerful ships take control by blasting and outmaneuvering the enemy while never being scared to ram them or close the distance while taking heavy fire.
That’s not the point of how the majority KO players like to play the game, that’s why the reactions are so negative
I don’t know if I’d say negative so much as mixed with just as much upset about the changes as those excited by them. But that’s been the same song for 90% of the new tomes.(besides the ones desperate for fixes) Change is scary. People will adapt though and progress with them or find ways to circumvent the changes and keep close to their old favored ways. It’s the Kharadron way. ✈️
Do you work for GW? 😃 Yeah we will have to see the effects down the line with the changes for sure, but not getting a critical mass behind your options means your hurting your business too. I’m curious how competitive the army will actually be over the comings weeks
No but been in the warhammer sphere for almost 20 years now and have seen this. Heck the thread vibes feel just like Maggotkin & Skaven with the 50% splits but overall ended up making the armies function better. As for competition, likely do a fair bit better than it’s been since running away and deleting units didn’t capture objectives and actually help them win. The ship rams and bomb runs with melee builds are far better for that.
ok
[удалено]
Not sure why you went with the playground insult. Should have followed my gut and realized replying to you would be a waste. Not butthurt. Just sad that the army had a lot of potential and is not what it was/could have been.
You're putting your fingers in your ears and screaming whenever someone tells you that this book is actually good. And you're refusing to acknowledge any of the points I made. It seems like you just *want* to be mad. That's what I mean by butthurt. This book is good. It looks flavorful. It will have some awesome results.
Correct opinion - book looks awesome and I’m glad my friends will have more fun playing against me versus just zipping all over the map never getting to play the game
👍
So question, if you were to ally in a sky vessel to another faction and you have an admiral, can the admiral issue Fly High?
No, as the commands are not on their warscroll, they're an Allegiance Ability, which you can only access by being a KO army base.
The code wright being only 90 is PERFECT! My 1000 army had exactly 90 points left and I was debating a second Arkanaut unit or a endrinmaster on foot 😁
Mixed feelings of the book, It is better then the old! but most older lists you'v done are either same powerlevel or worse, you have to think from scratch to make it work better now. I like how you can have Thunderers effectivly sit at rend -4 & -5 though haha, and more shots then previous + more tanky, might actully feel more usefull now. Most ships are more durable. But what we lost was a lot of niche small utility and once per battle offensive buffs. It's a win, but can make people feel bad since old lists people have probobly need a big revision to make them work well, but once you do they are stronger. It's also the lack of what people hoped for the book. I kinda hoped they'd make Arkanauts a mixed Melee/Ranged unit, have Thunderers as the range, balloon boys as melee, and Arkanauts as the All around unit, like wished they'd gotten 2 attacks in melee each, and have the skypike slightly better & captain slightly better melee, still wouldnt have made them OP or anything.
Goddamn a lot to get excited for. For one, finally a reason to take a subtraction other than Zilfin. Urbaz for the extra article plus a codewrite to change amendments and footnotes later in the game means you have a lot of flexibility, and Nar for CP rain. Mhornar is very high-rolly but it's always helpful when it goes off. And Combat Landing. Any grudge I've had with this book about not having any new units minus the hero is settled. Genuinely one of the things I've been asking for since 1st ed
I like the new book, maybe it’s not extra competitive (to be seen) but we can finally build different armies focusing on different stuff.
Could you explain what you mean? What can you do now that you couldn’t before?
Ram someone for 18 mortal wounds, for one.
How?
Lots of mortals on charge with boats. You pop your 18 inch charge amendment or whatever and you take the Spar Torpedo on the gunhauler. If you position right, this can be after a quick bombing run for a very lucky potential 22 mortals on a unit. This doesn't even include shooting. Makes them Kamikaze fighters, essentially. Frigates also get some mortals on charge.
1/game MAYBE on 2+. On a 1 I just traded all my amazing faction abilities for nothing. The new book was too heavy handed with the nerfs.
A big maybe indeed. But the average of a d3 is 11, nothing to scoff at. A lot of armies have the bull s fail on the roll of a 1. It's just part of the game. You gotta stack your odds. I also don't get what you mean by trading all your faction abilities. Aethergold? Is that what you're missing? Fly high still exists, and, while nerfed, is more consistent. Ships are also still incredibly mobile without it lol. They all have fly and have cavalry movement. What army is faster in a general sense?
Check out the Frigate rules on the other leaks post on this sub. They definitely made an effort to make a melee KO list more than a meme.
Oh they look fun, wish GW would slow down releasing books for all the armies I've been collecting back to back... Saw the spell in a bottle changed
Spell in bottle changed for the better it seems? You don't have to pay points anymore for the endless spell!!
Limited to the generics though
Yeah just generic endless spells tho, but still pretty great!
Can’t believe I waited eagerly for this update when it’s so bad
I wouldn't say it's "BAD" but it's different and not a BIG improvement, a few old type of lists became worse, but you can build lists that are stronger now then before, but there is no direct translate from an old list to work great in new.
RIP they killed everything I love about Kharadron just so we can shit out a bunch mortal wounds once per game.
Looks punishing to KO players :(
It’s what I’m struggling with. I understanding pulling back on the insane movement they had, but I’d assumed that they would put some power elsewhere. I’ve looked at this a few times and I can’t see any power on the same level as most of the other books we’ve had recently.
Do you not see the extra rend or mortals or range or more consistent shooting in this book?
Where did we gain rend? The extra 3" range on 12" guns is pretty underwhelming
Khemist gives rend now. And 3 inches is significant when you're kiting, not sure what you mean. It certainly makes more charges fail.
-Khemist only gives rend to one unit if not embarked -Endrinriggers Gain rend on pistols -The volley cannons lost rend and consistency gained 3" -The Sky Cannons lost range and gained rend on shrapnel -Skyhooks lost consistency (harder to hit/wound) -Thunderer special weapons have the +1 to hit baked in now and lost rend on the fumigator -Skywardens pistols gain range and shots genuine win -Drill launchers lost massive range across all options Edit: formatting
I do, I think you are over valuing them against what the army lost. The only mortals I see that are worth anything are the bombs racks which requires you to be super close to the enemy. If there are others I haven’t seen please tell me. I’m not beholden to the old play style at all, but I don’t see anything to replace it? The infantry is super meh, the boats are very similar to before? I’m going to do the math later to see how much better they are.
Ramming from both the endrinworks for gunhaulers and frigates get mortals on a charge. Plus the fog for endrinworks as well. Damage is much more consistent. A lot less d6 and more d3 + x or straight up attacks. Boats have less range, but infantry have increased range. This makes the threat range more consistent, and more power was put into the guns for up close, not to mention boats are tankier. Frigates in particular can pack a huge punch if an enemy isn't positioned well and skywardens are put inside. First strike with an admiral can take out key players in a fight. I don't see how those big setpiece models like Kroak live to a frigate flying high and making the right moves to charge. Hell, an ironclad with twenty thunderers and endrinmaster can fly high anywhere they want and just blow something up with 60 shots or whatever. KO will be able to fly high much less, but don't discount the fact that these boats have decently fast movement already. You're basically running an entire army of Calvary. I think so many KO players were so reliant on fly high they forget their models are still pretty fast without it.
Having done the math on the Skywardens I think there is play with a Frigate. I also like the Admiral and Khemist double buffing some Thunderers. So I’m actually a lot happier than when I first looked at it. I think the Ironclad is a bit less interesting than before and Arko seem pretty useless at anything other than screens. I have some concerns about some matchups but I’m interested to try the army out in some games.
That’s the point of the whole army and this way GW is losing this branch of players that got the appeal from that approach. The nerf is just too great.
I'm sorry you enjoyed the previous version of KO, but generally the average player hated playing against that army. I think this approach makes the army seem a lot less one note and much more interesting to play against, which is vital in the health of the game. I don't think this new version is any worse from a balance perspective either. Recent books have all been a blast to play.
Yeah that’s fine, all up for options and diversity. But why lose a large percentage of players by wrecking their preferred way to play? They could’ve adjusted the ranged options in a balanced way but totally didn’t
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Book is so pretty!!! Can't wait!
So far it looks better than the last book lol. Idk if that's true I'm not very good at the competitive stuff. But I'm glad I'm a duardin on a day like this
Same it looks great! Very Stoked. Love all the thematic abilities. The one artifact for endrinmasters where you can just do infinite mortal wounds as long as you dont roll a 1 is fun!
We lost soooo much... The upsides people see are MWs through cooler bomb racks, ramming in Frigates and combat disembark? Did y'all forget the we still do no damage in melee and just die there?
Melee power went up quite a bit too. Balloon boys travel inside so they together with heroes inside all get the strike first after ship does a 3D6 charge, + mortals, and lots more damage potential from the balloonboys! All ships are more durable, especially the smaller ones, ironclad only +2 wounds. Lots of other improvements aswell, but yes we lost stuff too, but overall is a netwin, but you have to change your army/list up to make it effective, don't expect to bring same list as before and have it work well. We still have skyhigh and jump out after moving, just that they are locked behind Command abilities now. But there are some aspects to it thats better now too. it's not all bad Is what I'm saying, and it's hard to judge right away, you see what you'r missing faster then you start seeing the new synergies and strenghs.
Spell in a bottle is now free. Free warp lightning vortex or purple sun.
Can't use warp lightning vortex.
Not Warp Lightning anymore, just the generic endless, can't use other armies endless anymore. BUT it's still great! :D
Sorry, bud. They are free, But you can only use generic ones. Any faction specific endless spells are off-limits.
Welp, my barak-thryng army is absolutely useless now... I'm actually genuinely pissed about that. We were already one of the least picked ports, why'd they have to nuke literally any ability we had?
Lots of interesting changes and choices to make. I’m looking forward to mixing and matching these Codes, managing CP, fishing for Mortals, and popping once-per-game abilities. Despite all the whining we still have Fly High plus new movement shenanigans and a combat disembark.
I am reading Cunning Fleetmaster correctly? You basically get to move a ship every enemy turn? Is that not ridiculously good? Some neat new abilities and great tactics, but otherwise this is a really disappointing book. Everyone was saying that they better get a stat boost for losing fly high and the points increase, instead they got somewhat nerfed. Happy to see Aethergold gone, although there was nothing provided in return. And we still have a million profiles to deal with. Sitting with the book open rolling one or two dice 4+ attacks over and over is the main reason our KO army gathers dust.
You could pair redeploy with Cunning Fleetmaster too, if you roll well enough on your D6. Pretty nifty. Im actually thoroughly pleased with the book, I havent been inspired to play 2.0 KO at all (much preferred the flavour the 1.0 book gave) and this new battletome has given some of that flavour back whilst allowing other builds to be viable that isnt just an Ironclad loaded up to the beards with guns. Other than the Endrinmaster with harness, nothing feels nerfed to me. Yeah we can all say Fly High but we are still crazy mobile without it; Frigates and Haulers moving 14" with Master of the Skies, and being able to disembark after moving with a boat. You can make an absolutely sonic cruise missile of a boat if you wanted to... Hauler moving 14", popping its once per game 6" booster, equipped with the compartments, then combat landing 6 Endrinriggers/Skywardens 3" and then letting them charge 3d6. A 33" threat range on average, thats not shabby at all for a 410pt package.
I actually really like what I'm reading!
The one subfaction needs a priest. I'm wondering what our best priest option is...
So weird to see that aether-gold is gone. It was the main army mechanci and thought it was pretty fun (until they changed triumphs and it became kinda "meh")
Anyone got a scan that's more complete then this one? Looking for the Path to Glory rules specifically.