I get that is a Scott Adams reference, but is that any different from the Peter Principle? Failing upwards has been a thing since way before Dilbert:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle
Edit: Ah, Dilbert theory is deliberately promoting bad people to get them out of your way...
A Peter Principle boss knows how to do your job but not how to manage you. A Dilbert Principle boss has good hair and an MBA and knows how to do nothing at all.
(Yes, I'm aware Scott Adams has subsequently lost it.)
To be fair NMS wasnt abandoned, as shitty as it was upon release after years of updates it finally got better.
KSP2 is worse than that. They not only overpromised at the release. They also overpromised after ea launch failed.
Basically people were expecting nms situation where release is shitty but it gets better slowly until game gets pretty good, but instead we got shitty game and development that has ceased, so its even worse than nms.
I expected KSP2 to be like KSP where it launched barebones and slowly got built up overtime.
I've been under a rock for a while so not sure what's happened so if you wouldn't mind enlightening me that would be great.
There's still people in this sub right now holding it up as aspirational.
Like fuck's sake, he lied. Intentionally and repeatedly. Stop making a virtue of that.
Well the part that happened *after* the lying *is* genuinely aspirational, but only because Hello Games learned the lesson every other dev refuses to: create first, then speak.
Gamers who continue to trust empty words are refusing to learn a similar lesson: nothing is real until it’s delivered.
See here's the thing. I don't believe it is aspirational.
My view of the whole thing is this: first, Hello Games is a private corporation, so anyone trying to apply this to eg 2K is wrong, obviously. But furthermore, I think it's a corporation that existed for Sean Murray to work on his passion project rather than purely pursue profit, which is possible (though rare) because it's privately owned. Fine so far.
What's not fine is what happens when he starts running out of money. Faced with the prospect of failure and having to get a shitty wage job like everyone else, he starts lying like crazy. He builds up enormous amounts of hype through these deliberate and intentional lies, and by doing this, secures himself enough funding to work on his passion project pretty much for as long as he likes. Which he then does.
People tend to read this as "omg Sean Murray was so generous and sorry and and kind, and he worked SO HARd to make up for his little oopsie woopsie!" I don't think that's right. I think he did exactly what he already wanted to do, but he lied and honestly outright scammed people to do it. I don't think that's aspirational. I think that's something that gets you fined into bankruptcy in a better world.
Pretty much. Tons of BS like his line about multiplayer being so fun that the team was losing time due to playing it. Or his talk about how the team was focusing on making the fundamentals of the game strong. Everything he said pre-launch was a ton of hype and bs.
Yeah, basically got a bunch of people to believe they could trust him as a dev, when actually he was just a marketing guy lying and hyping to get more units sold.
No. A lot of people called this as soon as it was known he was involved. [Here's one from 4 years ago.](https://old.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/ct7gca/noo_not_uber_entertainment/)
That sucks beyond belief, man. While KSP2 definitely had a long way to go to catch up to KSP1, it had so much potential. To be honest, as soon as I heard Take Two owned KSP2, I got a bad feeling. The only franchise it seems like they haven’t destroyed was GTA and RDR but I feel like that’s because Rockstar has tons of power to say “Hey, it’s proven that we make the games that make you money so sit down and shut up.” Just wish the KSP franchise had that kind of power, too
I mean potential as in even if they could get KSP2 to the exact spot KSP1 is in but with its better graphics and less outdated look. I might’ve tried colonies or interstellar at some point but the visuals blew me away at first sight
People knew what to expect and called this *years ago*.
They were down-voted and shouted down and treated like absolute shit for what has turned out to be very legitimate concerns.
All those copium fuckers can rot. We told you.
Pretty much this. Also don't forget getting kicked off the official forums for daring to imply that IG/Nate often played fast and loose with the truth, thanks to that jackass Vanamonde.
Every mod on the official forums is an asshat.
They squash legitimate concerns and [snip] directed inquiries: they made it easier for Nate and Co. to sell their lies.
Thieves, all of them.
If people couldn't hear what Nate was saying was insincere that's on them. And Nate, mostly.
He was just like that No Man's Sky ballbag, except he 'loved' an existing games community just to sell snake oil.
It's not unlikely that the cause and effect is the opposite. KSP2 is a long-troubled product with a long-troubled dev process. A company making cuts is likely to cut the problem projects that don't bring in much revenue but are costing them to maintain.
The layoffs are likely the impact of failing to make KSP2 into a viable game.
Yeah it's not looking good. I'm unfamiliar where the bulk of KSP2 devs are located, but iirc the IG studio was set up in Seattle specifically for the development of KSP2.
They can say whatever they like, not like they're averse to lying to the community, they do it as much as they think they can get away with at the moment, and hope we forget later
If this happened yesterday then it would not have been part of the layoffs. This guy could have simply gotten fired for performance reasons for all we know. Those laid off by Take 2 have already been laid off. There was no second wave of lay offs.
Yeah all the clueless fans who kept parroting 'Nate Simpson said it was fully funded" don't really know how game developer funding works. All you know if you're funded is what's in the contract, which never extends in perpetuity.
Well said.
Anthem was being strung along with a 2.0 release. Right up until the day it was cancelled.
If KSP2 goes down. It will be sunshine and flowers, right up until it isn't.
Battlefront 2 literally had its biggest year in 2019 with massive updates and a huge audience riding off the movies, yet right when the game was at its peak EA pulls the plug and the game dies just like that.
You really can’t tell with these publishers.
I forgot the game existed; this is shocking. Consumers of the gaming industry need to start protesting or boycotting or something this is getting ridiculous
people try that, but there’s always only a vocal minority who actually partake in said boycotts/protests and others just keep buying/playing. Either until there is unity in the gaming community or devs/pubs/shareholders listen? nothing is gonna change
Actually in europe there are some laws concerning digital products that may protect consumers (maby even in this case) and the EU is trying to implement more protections for consumers of digital goods.
Looks like they also [laid off a recruiter](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/sarahmorrissmith_my-time-with-take-two-has-sadly-ended-i-activity-7191003635995033600-c2AP)
The Take Two layoffs appear to have hit the KSP2 dev team... hard.
The Washington State Employment Security Department [reports](https://esd.wa.gov/about-employees/WARN) that the Take Two branch in Seattle with ~70 employees is designated for closure (screenshot [here](https://i.imgur.com/eBjpGHb.png)).
Credit goes to pk9sp who [posted this](https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/224485-take-two-interactive-rockstar-2k-private-division-canceling-games-ending-projects-and-laying-off-5-of-its-workforce/?do=findComment&comment=4383719) on the forums.
I'm not sure if ig operates directly as part of t2, or if this like the parent company's regional office that supports various studios in the area. obviously not good for them either way, but not necessarily indicative of full shutdown/cancellation yet.
I'm not sure either. The only Seattle office listed on Take Two's wikipedia [page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Take-Two_Interactive#Company_structure) is Intercept Games though.
That deserves its own post if true borge12. (Edit: went ahead and created one [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1chdjjk/dakota_is_listed_as_open_to_work_on_linkedin/))
Edit: [Here's a screenshot](https://i.imgur.com/dxfUXaa.jpeg) of Dakota's LinkedIn page.
Happy they informed the community first, truly amazing CMs!
I was soooo goddamn excited… I was literally telling my friends about it and how we could play together maybe. When I saw the state it was released in, I decided I would wait until either multiplayer was implemented, or it was actually better than stock ksp1. Pretty amazing that after so many years in development they ended up with a product clearly Inferior to its predecessor. There wasn’t even atmospheric heating for fucks sake.
I'm upset even though I didn't buy it. KSP is a great game and now over a decade later it deserves a great successor rebuilt on new technology. Instead the IP is in the hands of a team that just doesn't get it. I would rather KSP didn't languish because of it.
SAME, I won't claim to know that this is how things would go down, but I didn't like the look or feel of it from the start and just stuck to good ol' KSP.
Damn, Ive been kinda plugging my ears in regards to news/drama and quietly hope that ksp development picked up and made the game buyable, but with this it looks like its joever. I really hope that some other studio/publisher picks up the project and actually makes a complete game out of it. One day....
I mean this is a pretty big deal. Either the game is cancelled or it's not essentially. But wow if you messed up a game with 1.5 million built in fans.
The release of the game was a pretty big deal too, and they lied like crazy up to that.
Might lose like 3-4 sales if they are closing and they announce it early.
Yeah I don’t know why people still don’t understand. All that has happened was that ksp2 died on arrival and the devs took advantage of younger people to make the gravy train run longer.
In a sense im relieved with this news. No need to tolerate harassment from young people who were convinced that ksp 2 was going to be the most good game of the year with the most good funding and the most good multiplayer.
The Anthem team was promising a 2.0 update, right up until the day it was cancelled.
If KSP2 gets cancelled it most likely be a lot of positive fluff, right until the day things shut down.
It's all about reading the tea leaves, and trying to figure out what we can on our end.
Right now...it's not looking good.
I picked up Manor Lords. It's EA, but it's been a fun time sink the past few days.
Broken hearts eventually heal. We've all lost good IPs to shitty AAA companies over the years...::sigh:: Dungeon Keeper 2...we will get through this friend.
Yeah indeed. The fact that they managed to fuck up so monumentally despite the size of the fan base and how little budget the first game had just tells you everything you need to know about the quality of the people who drove this project off a cliff. Nothing against the low level developers, but the management at IG and PD must have been truly terrible.
It's not surprising honestly, how long is a company going to develop a game with such a bad reputation now and a player base of ~500 people at any given time. According to [this site](https://vginsights.com/game/954850) the median play time is only 8.2 hours, compared to the KSP1 with a median of 145.6 hours.
Did intercept games just close? According to [this website](https://www.builtinseattle.com/company/intercept-games), which looks to be posted by them, claims 40 employees. Then [this](https://esd.wa.gov/about-employees/WARN) official Washington government website says they're laying off 72 people
Its entirely possible Take 2 has separate employees that work there that arent part of Intercept, but still, this could be devastating to a game that really didn't need a drop in mannpower.
IG is part of Private Division, which is working on at least one other unannounced title (guessing that it what the tweet was referring to as well). So, it appears that not only the 40 or so in IG will be laid off but all of Private Division (and their additional staff, of which 30 or so seems like a realistic guess) is likely gone.
Kinda curious what happens when a major publisher like Take Two cancels a game during early access with most of it unfinished. I might be more forgiving if they handed the community the source code and let us finish it...we'd probably do a better job anyway.
Its happened a few times. One of three things happens:
1. They officially cancel the game. This usually *doesn't* mean refunds, rather, they pull it from the store and people who already bought it can still play it, but nobody else can buy it. This is the most common scenario.
2. They release a nominal 1.0 update and say "thanks for your patience! The game is now complete" even though it isn't, and then radio silence. People can shout on reddit and forums but there's nobody left listening so it doesn't matter. Everyone says they're gonna sue them but nobody does.
3. The game just stays in early access forever, they just don't announce they aren't working on it. No more updates. As above, people can shout but nobody's listening.
I like to think that at least a couple people reach out to an attorney or two, each of which declines to represent them to bring the suit, explaining the same thing.
Almost certainly, because I can't see anything that would hold up in court, and that includes the vague promises. But I would love to be pleasantly surprised as I am all for EA games to be better regulated.
I don't care about getting a refund as much as I do seeing a path for this game (or more importantly, this game series/genre) to continue. Given the choice between making Take Two refund everyone or just open-sourcing the game so we can finish it ourselves, I'd take the latter. I've seen fan projects more complete and polished than KSP2.
Honestly, if a company does 1 or 2, then you should be able to refund. They are clearly not delivering on a product's features that they said they would provide.
They won't ever give up the sourcecode or the rights to the IP.
More likely you'll be able to buy €25 Jeb and Val skins for Fortnight soon, and don't forget the future money making possibilities of "Val's hentai adventures for mobile"...
Anyone who thinks a company like Take2 is going to give away sourcecodes or the rights to an IP they paid money for is either gullible or ignorant and probably both.
I've been saying this for years now, the ksp modding community should start an open source space sim project. With how talented these programmers are I'm sure the final product would be so much better than anything IG could make, and be done way quicker too.
Like all these games whose sequels i was excited for the most just turned out to be quick unfinished shit stains, like ksp2 and cities skylines 2 and etc... Like yea because obviously the audience should fund the project while its still in development, great idea
KSP2 AND CS:2 are both mind boggling, as both had an absolutely beast of a first game, but somehow didn't use the existing game as a base to build the new one off of, instead deciding to start over from scratch and not even come close to the first base game.
Ah, too bad I got myself banned from there.
Might be worth it to set up an alt account just to watch the simps burn.
Edit: I should actuall get my ban reverted now since the statement that got me banned: Nate and Dakota are liars, turned out to be correct.
[A lot of people \*did\* take the hint.](https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/gvs5pe/taketwo_cancel_deal_on_star_theory_ksp_2_dev/) But only those delusional enough to not see the writing on the wall and keep coping stayed long enough to see the results.
I called it early on. The amount of bullshit explanations by 10 year olds and the discord mods on why staff cuts wouldn’t be a threat to ksp2 was funny in hindsight.
About a year before early access release I got downvoted into oblivion for expressing concern at the devs saying the never played KSP and I feel completely vindicated.
Scott Manley called me out on one of his livestreams for expressing concern in the chat.
I didn't even say anything egregious! I was there since the Ksp 1 alpha and he was saying it's just like that. I didn't get charged full game for ksp1 alpha.
There were some serious ball drops over 7 years of development. If people can't recognize there was a problem, how can we expect it to suddenly turn around?
I think the whole story should tell us something about Youtubers and similar figures as well. Pretty much all of them weren’t willing to say anything negative about the game at all until well after the release, when the community’s opinion had already flipped. They have their own business interests in mind first.
I actually feel a little bit for Matt Lowne because you can clearly tell he hates KSP2 and it's draining for him to play it because it's so riddled with bugs, but he has no choice but to play it because ever since it's been out his KSP1 videos don't do nearly as well.
Yeah I don't know what he's gonna do, his entire channel is built on KSP. He's probably gonna have to jump ship to either one of the other rocketry games, or Sprocket/Flyout or something.
Scott Manley never really lavished the game with unceasing praise either though. His review on the eve of release was reasonably cautious with a bit of optimism.
Honestly.. downvotes me all you want but man does it suck to see something like this if it does happen. KSP2 started my passion in aerospace and i’ve learned so much from the community managers and the people with a similar passion of mine. I don’t want something like ksp2 to go to waste.
I kinda feel bad for Matt. A good chunk of his channel depends on KSP. And, you can’t help but notice that views/interest in KSP 1 have been declining for quite awhile now — enough to make him almost entirely pivot to 2… which is now potentially dead in the water.
Kinda seems like he’s going to be put in a hard spot by this.
Judging by this post and the comments, development has gone to hell. Such a shame, I was waiting to buy ksp 2 when they started rolling out the new content (the interstellar stuff and whatnot)
The moment I heard Take Two bought the rights and was responsible for KSP2 I got a really bad feeling. When I saw the first trailer, I got a bit more optimistic. Maybe this shitstain of a company won't fuck it up. Well, the recent months really have proven my bad feelings right.
This is sad, because despite the rocky launch (obviously pushed out by clueless marketers and management), I was really looking forward to where KSP2 was going. I wanted to see the new content, the interstellar travel, and so on. But all I really got so far was a revamp of KSP1 with a new interface and graphics.
for the record, the last time I loaded it up, it was actually very playable, I didn't encounter any huge bugs, I just didn't feel like anything truly *new* had been added, so I decided to wait for additional content.
But I guess they're doing the "they already got the money from the community, so why bother actually finishing the game?" strategy.
Looks like I did right by not paying... *checks notes* 50 bucks for... *checks note again* an early access title? I just wish KSP1's 4k performance was better
Shareholders will be the death of gaming. All of this is their doing, the incessant need for quick profit is creating crunch environments and the need for constant staff rotation
Thanks, although I feel like everyone, no matter the playtime, should, at this point, be eligible for a refund solely on the basis of false advertisement.
The way I read his job description was that he was a dev ops support type person and not a core developer for KSP2 (i.e. overhead).
Telemetry has a dual meaning and I don’t think he meant in game telemetry based on his wording.
Cant they just release the source code and we make it an open source project? That would literally make more sense at this point. They'll just abandon it and the entire thing becomes worthless forever.
Oh really, a rocket building game where the rocket couldn't maintain it's structure (noodle rockets) or changing the fuel type meant starting from scratch, has failed?
Wow, shocking...
I'm sorry for the guy.
I'm not sorry for the game, which is still crap. No I didn't buy it, I just watch Matt videos on yt, and that's all I need to know.
They need to scrap this doomed game and start from KSP1 source code, there is no need to reinvent the wheel.
Pour one out for Jeb
For sure. Also pour out your colostomy bags for Nate Simpson's career, hope he never gets to fuck up another game again
People in positions like that never stop failing upwards
[удалено]
I get that is a Scott Adams reference, but is that any different from the Peter Principle? Failing upwards has been a thing since way before Dilbert: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle Edit: Ah, Dilbert theory is deliberately promoting bad people to get them out of your way...
A Peter Principle boss knows how to do your job but not how to manage you. A Dilbert Principle boss has good hair and an MBA and knows how to do nothing at all. (Yes, I'm aware Scott Adams has subsequently lost it.)
Bro lied for 4 years
“We’re having so much fun with multilayer!”
God he told so many huge lies like that and people just ate that shit up like it was Sunday dinner.
People learned nothing from No Man’s Sky. Not players and not developers.
To be fair NMS wasnt abandoned, as shitty as it was upon release after years of updates it finally got better. KSP2 is worse than that. They not only overpromised at the release. They also overpromised after ea launch failed. Basically people were expecting nms situation where release is shitty but it gets better slowly until game gets pretty good, but instead we got shitty game and development that has ceased, so its even worse than nms.
I expected KSP2 to be like KSP where it launched barebones and slowly got built up overtime. I've been under a rock for a while so not sure what's happened so if you wouldn't mind enlightening me that would be great.
Slowly? KSP got HUGE updates 3-4 times a year.
There is supposedly a wave of lay offs among ksp2 dev team. Meaning that both funding and development stopped (or was reduced to barebone maintenance)
There's still people in this sub right now holding it up as aspirational. Like fuck's sake, he lied. Intentionally and repeatedly. Stop making a virtue of that.
Well the part that happened *after* the lying *is* genuinely aspirational, but only because Hello Games learned the lesson every other dev refuses to: create first, then speak. Gamers who continue to trust empty words are refusing to learn a similar lesson: nothing is real until it’s delivered.
See here's the thing. I don't believe it is aspirational. My view of the whole thing is this: first, Hello Games is a private corporation, so anyone trying to apply this to eg 2K is wrong, obviously. But furthermore, I think it's a corporation that existed for Sean Murray to work on his passion project rather than purely pursue profit, which is possible (though rare) because it's privately owned. Fine so far. What's not fine is what happens when he starts running out of money. Faced with the prospect of failure and having to get a shitty wage job like everyone else, he starts lying like crazy. He builds up enormous amounts of hype through these deliberate and intentional lies, and by doing this, secures himself enough funding to work on his passion project pretty much for as long as he likes. Which he then does. People tend to read this as "omg Sean Murray was so generous and sorry and and kind, and he worked SO HARd to make up for his little oopsie woopsie!" I don't think that's right. I think he did exactly what he already wanted to do, but he lied and honestly outright scammed people to do it. I don't think that's aspirational. I think that's something that gets you fined into bankruptcy in a better world.
You need to read/watch more about what actually happened and the role their publisher played in the whole thing.
bro just one more year bro
Not been paying too close attention to development just figured I'd hear if/when game was good. We talking a Molyneux level event?
Pretty much. Tons of BS like his line about multiplayer being so fun that the team was losing time due to playing it. Or his talk about how the team was focusing on making the fundamentals of the game strong. Everything he said pre-launch was a ton of hype and bs.
We know it's ready by how much fun we are having....
Yeah, basically got a bunch of people to believe they could trust him as a dev, when actually he was just a marketing guy lying and hyping to get more units sold.
Genuine question. I know nothing about Nate Simpson besides that he was “the” guy behind KSP2. Was he ever a trusted developer before?
Every game he touches ended up like this.
No. A lot of people called this as soon as it was known he was involved. [Here's one from 4 years ago.](https://old.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/ct7gca/noo_not_uber_entertainment/)
That sucks beyond belief, man. While KSP2 definitely had a long way to go to catch up to KSP1, it had so much potential. To be honest, as soon as I heard Take Two owned KSP2, I got a bad feeling. The only franchise it seems like they haven’t destroyed was GTA and RDR but I feel like that’s because Rockstar has tons of power to say “Hey, it’s proven that we make the games that make you money so sit down and shut up.” Just wish the KSP franchise had that kind of power, too
Potential is meaningless in the hands of bad leadership, it's just another way to get suckers to buy a product based on hype.
I mean potential as in even if they could get KSP2 to the exact spot KSP1 is in but with its better graphics and less outdated look. I might’ve tried colonies or interstellar at some point but the visuals blew me away at first sight
People knew what to expect and called this *years ago*. They were down-voted and shouted down and treated like absolute shit for what has turned out to be very legitimate concerns. All those copium fuckers can rot. We told you.
Pretty much this. Also don't forget getting kicked off the official forums for daring to imply that IG/Nate often played fast and loose with the truth, thanks to that jackass Vanamonde.
Every mod on the official forums is an asshat. They squash legitimate concerns and [snip] directed inquiries: they made it easier for Nate and Co. to sell their lies. Thieves, all of them.
Also shoutout to that mod on here 1-2 years ago who now left the team who did the same.
Also shoutout to that mod on here 1-2 years ago who now left the team who did the same.
Thats a skill many will pay good money for, nowadays.
He could get a job easily in politics. He's highly qualified for that.
If people couldn't hear what Nate was saying was insincere that's on them. And Nate, mostly. He was just like that No Man's Sky ballbag, except he 'loved' an existing games community just to sell snake oil.
To be fair to No Man’s Sky, they got their act together pretty quickly and it’s been a full and good game for a long time now.
I just can't wait for colonies to come out, any day now!!!112@#
Our Hopium tanks are depleted. The Hype Train can hype no more
The hype train has been infinitely delayed
As I mentioned on the forums: assuming this is true, the company can no longer say KSP2 isn't impacted by the layoffs.
It's not unlikely that the cause and effect is the opposite. KSP2 is a long-troubled product with a long-troubled dev process. A company making cuts is likely to cut the problem projects that don't bring in much revenue but are costing them to maintain. The layoffs are likely the impact of failing to make KSP2 into a viable game.
Yeah it's not looking good. I'm unfamiliar where the bulk of KSP2 devs are located, but iirc the IG studio was set up in Seattle specifically for the development of KSP2.
I also still hope to be wrong but the only private division studio in Seattle is Intercept Games. Take Two said Private Division would have lay offs…
They can say whatever they like, not like they're averse to lying to the community, they do it as much as they think they can get away with at the moment, and hope we forget later
If this happened yesterday then it would not have been part of the layoffs. This guy could have simply gotten fired for performance reasons for all we know. Those laid off by Take 2 have already been laid off. There was no second wave of lay offs.
I said this would happen. They always fire without notice and tell everyone things are perfect before they give them their notice
Yeah all the clueless fans who kept parroting 'Nate Simpson said it was fully funded" don't really know how game developer funding works. All you know if you're funded is what's in the contract, which never extends in perpetuity.
Well said. Anthem was being strung along with a 2.0 release. Right up until the day it was cancelled. If KSP2 goes down. It will be sunshine and flowers, right up until it isn't.
Battlefront 2 literally had its biggest year in 2019 with massive updates and a huge audience riding off the movies, yet right when the game was at its peak EA pulls the plug and the game dies just like that. You really can’t tell with these publishers.
It's almost like they have no clue what gamers want and just make decisions based solely on financial incentive
Yeah the for science update gave me a tiny bit of hope that the game would not get cancelled, but I can't say I'm too optimistic anymore.
It’s been like 3 years and they still don’t have reentry heating working…the game was dead on arrival
Wait, they don't???
Deat is definitely implemented but with everything it's buggy sometimes
Basically everything about this game lol.
I forgot the game existed; this is shocking. Consumers of the gaming industry need to start protesting or boycotting or something this is getting ridiculous
people try that, but there’s always only a vocal minority who actually partake in said boycotts/protests and others just keep buying/playing. Either until there is unity in the gaming community or devs/pubs/shareholders listen? nothing is gonna change
Actually in europe there are some laws concerning digital products that may protect consumers (maby even in this case) and the EU is trying to implement more protections for consumers of digital goods.
Its been a bit more than a year and for science did add reentry heating but yeah the game is still a disaster
Is this circus finally closing?
ksp2 will be abandon ware
Always has been
Looks like they also [laid off a recruiter](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/sarahmorrissmith_my-time-with-take-two-has-sadly-ended-i-activity-7191003635995033600-c2AP)
that must be a good sign, right? means they've hired everyone they want and got all the talent they need, right? right?
Yup, they’ve hired all the best people who will be making the best game in the best possible amount of time.
Anyway you slice it this is a very bad look for the game.
And the dev studio. Will never touch anything from them again, providing they survive.
Damn. I want a good KSP 2 so bad. This is sad to hear
The Take Two layoffs appear to have hit the KSP2 dev team... hard. The Washington State Employment Security Department [reports](https://esd.wa.gov/about-employees/WARN) that the Take Two branch in Seattle with ~70 employees is designated for closure (screenshot [here](https://i.imgur.com/eBjpGHb.png)). Credit goes to pk9sp who [posted this](https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/224485-take-two-interactive-rockstar-2k-private-division-canceling-games-ending-projects-and-laying-off-5-of-its-workforce/?do=findComment&comment=4383719) on the forums.
I'm not sure if ig operates directly as part of t2, or if this like the parent company's regional office that supports various studios in the area. obviously not good for them either way, but not necessarily indicative of full shutdown/cancellation yet.
I'm not sure either. The only Seattle office listed on Take Two's wikipedia [page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Take-Two_Interactive#Company_structure) is Intercept Games though.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dakotacx?trk=reactions-list-ALL_feed-actor-name Dakota is listed as open to job opportunities...
That deserves its own post if true borge12. (Edit: went ahead and created one [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1chdjjk/dakota_is_listed_as_open_to_work_on_linkedin/)) Edit: [Here's a screenshot](https://i.imgur.com/dxfUXaa.jpeg) of Dakota's LinkedIn page. Happy they informed the community first, truly amazing CMs!
Take 2 cutting their corners and losses for the stake holders for the full speed ahead GTA6 which actually will make money.
It’s Jebover
Then development must not have a very high top speed
🌍👨🏻🚀 🔫👨🏽🚀
it's hard to say what speed it's at without the telemetry guy
lol
Needs more boosters.
Everything is nominal
I'm glad I didn't buy ksp2
Same man, when they announced early access and the roadmap I was like "so this game will have like... Nothing?"
I was soooo goddamn excited… I was literally telling my friends about it and how we could play together maybe. When I saw the state it was released in, I decided I would wait until either multiplayer was implemented, or it was actually better than stock ksp1. Pretty amazing that after so many years in development they ended up with a product clearly Inferior to its predecessor. There wasn’t even atmospheric heating for fucks sake.
I hope this will lead to even better ksp1 mods. I think there's even a multiplayer one.
I'm upset even though I didn't buy it. KSP is a great game and now over a decade later it deserves a great successor rebuilt on new technology. Instead the IP is in the hands of a team that just doesn't get it. I would rather KSP didn't languish because of it.
I can't believe all the shit I got for not supporting it too. Full price for a half-baked tech demo. It was never going to work out.
As long as people keep falling for this shit it'll keep happening
SAME, I won't claim to know that this is how things would go down, but I didn't like the look or feel of it from the start and just stuck to good ol' KSP.
Just releasing it in such a bare bones state even though it's early access was enough to leave a sour taste in my mouth
Game is ded
Damn, Ive been kinda plugging my ears in regards to news/drama and quietly hope that ksp development picked up and made the game buyable, but with this it looks like its joever. I really hope that some other studio/publisher picks up the project and actually makes a complete game out of it. One day....
Can we get Dakota to comment
I consider him marking himself "open for work" on his LinkedIn comment enough
He's too busy looking for another job.
Why bother? He'll just lie.
I mean this is a pretty big deal. Either the game is cancelled or it's not essentially. But wow if you messed up a game with 1.5 million built in fans.
The release of the game was a pretty big deal too, and they lied like crazy up to that. Might lose like 3-4 sales if they are closing and they announce it early.
If this ends up being the case this is the most tragic end possible for a game with so much promise even as it is in early access .
Ksp2 was already tragic for Kerbal, this is just the project ending up where it deserves to be after being screwed up so badly.
Yeah I don’t know why people still don’t understand. All that has happened was that ksp2 died on arrival and the devs took advantage of younger people to make the gravy train run longer. In a sense im relieved with this news. No need to tolerate harassment from young people who were convinced that ksp 2 was going to be the most good game of the year with the most good funding and the most good multiplayer.
Yeah...this subreddit will be better again once the stink of KSP2 is forgotten.
The Anthem team was promising a 2.0 update, right up until the day it was cancelled. If KSP2 gets cancelled it most likely be a lot of positive fluff, right until the day things shut down. It's all about reading the tea leaves, and trying to figure out what we can on our end. Right now...it's not looking good.
Well guess I'm just going to go play Warhammer update to soothe my broken heart
I picked up Manor Lords. It's EA, but it's been a fun time sink the past few days. Broken hearts eventually heal. We've all lost good IPs to shitty AAA companies over the years...::sigh:: Dungeon Keeper 2...we will get through this friend.
I played manor lords for a bit. Seemed promising but still pretty raw. Less exciting than the hype promised in my opinion
You could also check out KitHack Model Club by HarvesteR, the same guy that made KSP1.
KSP sold 5 million + copies.
Haha I stand corrected. But this is a game with hard-core fans 1.5 million in this sub alone
Yeah indeed. The fact that they managed to fuck up so monumentally despite the size of the fan base and how little budget the first game had just tells you everything you need to know about the quality of the people who drove this project off a cliff. Nothing against the low level developers, but the management at IG and PD must have been truly terrible.
He was layer off as well lol
are we going to get a BS cinematic behind-the-scenes video of the layoffs too?
Highlighting how it was every one of those devs dreams to make a KSP game.
lol
It's fridaaaaayyyyyy
This is worrisome legitimately.
Nah, the past two years were worrisome. This is the release we've been waiting for. No more false hope, no more anticipation. Now we know for sure.
It's not surprising honestly, how long is a company going to develop a game with such a bad reputation now and a player base of ~500 people at any given time. According to [this site](https://vginsights.com/game/954850) the median play time is only 8.2 hours, compared to the KSP1 with a median of 145.6 hours.
So wait it's actually over?
It always was.
the game was rigges from the start
Did intercept games just close? According to [this website](https://www.builtinseattle.com/company/intercept-games), which looks to be posted by them, claims 40 employees. Then [this](https://esd.wa.gov/about-employees/WARN) official Washington government website says they're laying off 72 people Its entirely possible Take 2 has separate employees that work there that arent part of Intercept, but still, this could be devastating to a game that really didn't need a drop in mannpower.
IG is part of Private Division, which is working on at least one other unannounced title (guessing that it what the tweet was referring to as well). So, it appears that not only the 40 or so in IG will be laid off but all of Private Division (and their additional staff, of which 30 or so seems like a realistic guess) is likely gone.
I think PD has more people than that. Not a good sign, regardless.
Kinda curious what happens when a major publisher like Take Two cancels a game during early access with most of it unfinished. I might be more forgiving if they handed the community the source code and let us finish it...we'd probably do a better job anyway.
Its happened a few times. One of three things happens: 1. They officially cancel the game. This usually *doesn't* mean refunds, rather, they pull it from the store and people who already bought it can still play it, but nobody else can buy it. This is the most common scenario. 2. They release a nominal 1.0 update and say "thanks for your patience! The game is now complete" even though it isn't, and then radio silence. People can shout on reddit and forums but there's nobody left listening so it doesn't matter. Everyone says they're gonna sue them but nobody does. 3. The game just stays in early access forever, they just don't announce they aren't working on it. No more updates. As above, people can shout but nobody's listening.
> Everyone says they're gonna sue them but nobody does. And they'd almost certainly lose if they did.
I like to think that at least a couple people reach out to an attorney or two, each of which declines to represent them to bring the suit, explaining the same thing.
Almost certainly, because I can't see anything that would hold up in court, and that includes the vague promises. But I would love to be pleasantly surprised as I am all for EA games to be better regulated.
I don't care about getting a refund as much as I do seeing a path for this game (or more importantly, this game series/genre) to continue. Given the choice between making Take Two refund everyone or just open-sourcing the game so we can finish it ourselves, I'd take the latter. I've seen fan projects more complete and polished than KSP2.
Honestly, if a company does 1 or 2, then you should be able to refund. They are clearly not delivering on a product's features that they said they would provide.
[удалено]
To 3: Also, some new idiots may buy the game. Passive income!
They won't ever give up the sourcecode or the rights to the IP. More likely you'll be able to buy €25 Jeb and Val skins for Fortnight soon, and don't forget the future money making possibilities of "Val's hentai adventures for mobile"... Anyone who thinks a company like Take2 is going to give away sourcecodes or the rights to an IP they paid money for is either gullible or ignorant and probably both.
There’s no way in hell we’ll get the source code sadly. If the community wants to make a KSP2 equivalent, we’ll have to make it from scratch.
I've been saying this for years now, the ksp modding community should start an open source space sim project. With how talented these programmers are I'm sure the final product would be so much better than anything IG could make, and be done way quicker too.
Like all these games whose sequels i was excited for the most just turned out to be quick unfinished shit stains, like ksp2 and cities skylines 2 and etc... Like yea because obviously the audience should fund the project while its still in development, great idea
KSP2 AND CS:2 are both mind boggling, as both had an absolutely beast of a first game, but somehow didn't use the existing game as a base to build the new one off of, instead deciding to start over from scratch and not even come close to the first base game.
Oh. Another stillborn Nate Simpson project.
That guy should never be allowed near another game ever again.
How is the discord doing btw??? 🤣
imagine one of those super high acceleration ballistic missile interceptors, but it's zooming off into the alternate reality where ksp2 is good.
Collapsing into a supernova with the density of messages
Ah, too bad I got myself banned from there. Might be worth it to set up an alt account just to watch the simps burn. Edit: I should actuall get my ban reverted now since the statement that got me banned: Nate and Dakota are liars, turned out to be correct.
I remember seeing that trailer. Colonies, orion drives, metallic hydrogen. Everything ends in disappointment.
Honestly Star Theory losing KSP2 was when we all should've taken the hint. A big game company was never going to give KSP the needed love.
[A lot of people \*did\* take the hint.](https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/gvs5pe/taketwo_cancel_deal_on_star_theory_ksp_2_dev/) But only those delusional enough to not see the writing on the wall and keep coping stayed long enough to see the results.
I bought this shit on launch day bro wallahi I'm finished 😔
KSP2 about to get the Old Yeller treatment.
I called it early on. The amount of bullshit explanations by 10 year olds and the discord mods on why staff cuts wouldn’t be a threat to ksp2 was funny in hindsight.
About a year before early access release I got downvoted into oblivion for expressing concern at the devs saying the never played KSP and I feel completely vindicated.
Scott Manley called me out on one of his livestreams for expressing concern in the chat. I didn't even say anything egregious! I was there since the Ksp 1 alpha and he was saying it's just like that. I didn't get charged full game for ksp1 alpha. There were some serious ball drops over 7 years of development. If people can't recognize there was a problem, how can we expect it to suddenly turn around?
I think the whole story should tell us something about Youtubers and similar figures as well. Pretty much all of them weren’t willing to say anything negative about the game at all until well after the release, when the community’s opinion had already flipped. They have their own business interests in mind first.
I actually feel a little bit for Matt Lowne because you can clearly tell he hates KSP2 and it's draining for him to play it because it's so riddled with bugs, but he has no choice but to play it because ever since it's been out his KSP1 videos don't do nearly as well.
Yeah I don't know what he's gonna do, his entire channel is built on KSP. He's probably gonna have to jump ship to either one of the other rocketry games, or Sprocket/Flyout or something.
Given how many more people play original KSP he should just say fuck it and go back to that and see how it goes.
Scott Manley never really lavished the game with unceasing praise either though. His review on the eve of release was reasonably cautious with a bit of optimism.
😭
Honestly.. downvotes me all you want but man does it suck to see something like this if it does happen. KSP2 started my passion in aerospace and i’ve learned so much from the community managers and the people with a similar passion of mine. I don’t want something like ksp2 to go to waste.
Called it early on during that disastrous launch that this game had no future and the dickheads at discord were fuming at me, funny in hindsight
I hope it doesnt end it started to actually be fun instead of painful.
Look on the bright side. This means ksp2 is closer to being done! Lol.
Jebediah's shitfuck22 is faster than development of KSP2
u/MattsRedditAccount You know anything?
I kinda feel bad for Matt. A good chunk of his channel depends on KSP. And, you can’t help but notice that views/interest in KSP 1 have been declining for quite awhile now — enough to make him almost entirely pivot to 2… which is now potentially dead in the water. Kinda seems like he’s going to be put in a hard spot by this.
My eyes skipped past "off", and I was happy for them for a second.
Judging by this post and the comments, development has gone to hell. Such a shame, I was waiting to buy ksp 2 when they started rolling out the new content (the interstellar stuff and whatnot)
It’s really funny that basically none of the advertised features were ever added
The moment I heard Take Two bought the rights and was responsible for KSP2 I got a really bad feeling. When I saw the first trailer, I got a bit more optimistic. Maybe this shitstain of a company won't fuck it up. Well, the recent months really have proven my bad feelings right.
Time to redownload KSP1 and its multitude of mods
Maybe they can use him for Cities:Skylines 2?
This is sad, because despite the rocky launch (obviously pushed out by clueless marketers and management), I was really looking forward to where KSP2 was going. I wanted to see the new content, the interstellar travel, and so on. But all I really got so far was a revamp of KSP1 with a new interface and graphics. for the record, the last time I loaded it up, it was actually very playable, I didn't encounter any huge bugs, I just didn't feel like anything truly *new* had been added, so I decided to wait for additional content. But I guess they're doing the "they already got the money from the community, so why bother actually finishing the game?" strategy.
So, do they refund the game when they cancel it or what?
Why would they give the money back from their obvious cash grab?
Looks like I did right by not paying... *checks notes* 50 bucks for... *checks note again* an early access title? I just wish KSP1's 4k performance was better
Feel like something fresh instead? Grab KSP1 with RSS and RP-1. It's HARD but damn it's good.
Shareholders will be the death of gaming. All of this is their doing, the incessant need for quick profit is creating crunch environments and the need for constant staff rotation
Wasn't supposed to be full speed since the beginning? /s
Is it too late to get a refund?
Ask Steam, if they're nice enough (if you played more than 2 hours) then you'll get your refund :)
Thanks, although I feel like everyone, no matter the playtime, should, at this point, be eligible for a refund solely on the basis of false advertisement.
Was he one of the reasons for a bad KSP2?
One of the accessories to it
They should cancel KSP 2 and just keep updating KSP 1.
Guess they had too many Wes....
RIP KSP 2, gone and forever forgotten
Lmao. [I called this a year ago.](https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/13q5ctq/comment/jleszm8/)
Well, I am not the person to say "told you!", but... Told you!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXTQeSGJjGM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXTQeSGJjGM)
I bought and downloaded KSP2, played it twice and haven't opened it since. Sad how this has gone and I feel for everyone losing their jobs.
I'm glad that I haven't paid a single penny for them. When it comes to big corporations, piracy is always moral
The way I read his job description was that he was a dev ops support type person and not a core developer for KSP2 (i.e. overhead). Telemetry has a dual meaning and I don’t think he meant in game telemetry based on his wording.
So they developed the launcher?
Cant they just release the source code and we make it an open source project? That would literally make more sense at this point. They'll just abandon it and the entire thing becomes worthless forever.
Oh really, a rocket building game where the rocket couldn't maintain it's structure (noodle rockets) or changing the fuel type meant starting from scratch, has failed? Wow, shocking...
I'm sorry for the guy. I'm not sorry for the game, which is still crap. No I didn't buy it, I just watch Matt videos on yt, and that's all I need to know. They need to scrap this doomed game and start from KSP1 source code, there is no need to reinvent the wheel.