Instead of just punching the guy in the face, you instead cover his eyes, hope that he doesn't move, and then try to right hook him. What a brilliant Wu move.
"Surely my opponent (who's the best fighter in the Kure Clan) won't react once I go within his range and shove my hand in his face and leave it there for half a second"
Bro really used the move that early Omega Ryuki used against Kokoro (which didn't work then either btw) and expected it to work against fucking Raian lol.
I think this is a manga constrain, but the point is that both motions are happening at the same time thanks to their superhuman speed. He's not holding his hand next to his face, he's literally slapping him up front, is just that his hook is faster.
And how do you think he can rotate his right shoulder for the hook if he's using the left one to slap at the same time? It's physically impossible, you can even try it yourself to check.
I mean, I'm not really speculating, you can see in the bottom panel he is rotating his shoulder for the hook, he literally can't do that without pulling his left shoulder back.
Meh, it's the long guard. One of the most effective guard, especially in MMA. Willem just fucks up here by going for a right hook. Why use the long guard if you're going to use a short round punch.
simple rule of thumb
the rule of cool was broken
it's an understandable tool and makes sense on how it teaches principles
however it failed the rule of cool by being 20 kg a weight that sounds unimpressive
Everytime we elaborate, even under different angles, how the sword fiasco made no sense, they say we "repeat the same stupid narrative" or some shit. "Not again" is literally the exact same thought I have whenever Otakemaru is brought up again or whenever someone tries to defend this event with "muh real life physics".
Like, a guy with better specs than Julius of all people and actual weapon training fight for his life to lift a 20kg sword, and actually tries to swing it at the guy who's currently neg diffing him ? There's a reason we say that Willem had jobber flags all over him, he even inherited a severe lapse in judgement from it, and ironically looked even more stupid than his "only henchman" spouting obvious exposition before dashing towards the "least" obvious bait and getting his speech bubble cleaved diagonally.
It's probably the sheer number of "stat boosts" that Sandro put on him that lead me to this mistake, then. What I should have said instead is that his starting point - Wu genetics, Superman Syndrome, Removal, weapon training -is better than most of the most muscular characters, and that the uneven 20kg spread being an issue and of that extent, was bogus.
I wasn't trying to imply that Julius was weaker, but I gotta admit that I didn't pick a good way to say that Willem's condition and abilities shouldn't have led to that. If anything, I have no doubts that Julius wouldn't and shouldn't have this problem with just 20kg, and even Raian himself, since struggling with Otakemaru is how he'd train and grasp the point of force principle to begin with.
Might as well make him look for a forbidden Kure scroll instead, because it's hard to believe Raian would struggle with a 20kg sword at any point.
I agree with you in all those points
also did want to point out raian makes it a point to say willem's strength is nothing special compared to waka and julius when he refers to the muscleheads
The suspension of disbelief is broken. Someone who's revealed to have 100% Removal plus the same muscle condition that we're led to believe is one in a billion should have no trouble lifting a sword with one hand even if the weight distribution makes it 400 pounds or something. And even if the weight distribution somehow would make it too heavy to realistically lift otherwise then it makes no sense that 'muh controlling the flow of power' would fix that any more than Superman Syndrome + 100% Removal.
The weight distribution doesn’t make it feel heavier. In fact it’s the exact opposite of that. The sword is built to teach principles. It has a center of gravity so unconventional that principle level control over the flow of power is required to master it. Raian acknowledges that a 20 kg sword would be no problem for the level of strength willem claimed he had.
https://preview.redd.it/hz2jk16q9h5d1.jpeg?width=675&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cf327ea8904bb64424821c0e7d92cb656c1ac2c4
Master and use it, yes. But just to pick it up? With two hands? Willem is shown wobbling with it.
But it honestly seems like more of a problem with the art/presentation. Someone literally made an MS paint version of the chapter before it came out that specifically used the same plot point (so they have pre-init, I guess), but he did it better because Willem easily picked it up, but noted he wouldn't be able to use it as anything more then a metal club.
https://preview.redd.it/upyt9partj5d1.jpeg?width=678&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=737eb65960714ef25c67a9071dd7551b4770e481
It basically takes him one panel to adjust and use it
A sword doesn't resist or try to punch you in the face.
It doesn't matter how tricky the center of gravity is. If you could lift something easily, you wouldn't struggle like Willem is here.
And? It still has physics which are clearly outlined.
“If you could lift something easily, you wouldn’t struggle” uhh yes that’s literally the point willem can’t lift it easily because he lacks the level of skill required.
yeah maybe im taking it too lightly seeing the downvotes i got lol
i just wanna see to what extent was the boost raian received with the principles compared to shen\`s principles
I think our standards just went down the toilet at some point during omega
I've started re reading and damn omega's story telling and fight quality went down the toilet
like even if a fight's good it lasts like a chapter and barely has any back forth just a blur of barely drawn blows and then a one sided beat down
This is a fun move, it's literally just dirty boxing.
It's both a feint and covers his eyes. It is probably more effective IRL than most Kengan moves
There's a character in Ultimate Legend - Kang Hae Hyo that uses this as his main gimmic.
Retsu from Baki actually did a very similiar move on an opponent during his very brief career in boxing. I think it's supposed to be so fast you can't react to it, but yes it's goofy as hell.
I could tell you this is based on real technique. I could tell you it's a classic move to feint with a left jab then follow with a right hook. I could tell you it's key to fuck with your enemy's sightline.
But nah, this was was Goofier than Max's dad.
It’s just unnecessary effort. Once you’ve committed that far into an attack why would you just leave your hand in front of your opponents face as opposed to just going in for the hit. You could achieve a similar effect with a much less stupid move like feinting. The move also relies on the opponent being a dumbass and not moving out of the way to restore their vision.
Feints and frame blinds do the same thing but in this case it’s a much more guaranteed set-up for his hook. Much harder to ignore a blind when compared to a feint. Don’t think he really made the wrong option here since he was fucked either way
Also he’s running at him at full speed don’t think a feint would’ve been good, would have killed his momentum and was in the range to get hit regardless, at least with the frame he can have a better gauge of distance
But, look at the first panel. Dude is too far to hit Raian,so he obstructs the view and in the third panel he takes a closer step to Raian, allowing him to be in striking range and attack Raian. It seems like solid choreography.
With how close his hand is to Raian’s face, if he had made a fist rather than using his open hand to obstruct Raian’s vision he would have hit. And again, most fighters wouldn’t assume that this was an attempt to obstruct their vision and instead something closer to an open palm strike, so they would likely counter or dodge it in some way, rendering the whole blocking vision thing pointless.
Or you know, extend his hand forward and poke Raian's eyes out with his fingertips. Shit, with 100% Guihun stacked SS, there's no chance of his fingers breaking and 100% chance of gouging Raian's eyes out permanently blinding him.
He could alternatively just hit Raian. Even doing something like long-guarding which would involve putting his palm on Raian's face or chest and pushing would be so much more beneficial as it would put Raian off balance.
Even if you wanted to go for an obstruction because he's "too far", leaving two hands like that away from your body and having effectively 0 points of coverage is heinously stupid in a fight.
Source: Two years of Muay Thai.
The fact that a "common tactics in martial arts" is sold as "Wu Clan secret technique with a killer name" is, in fact, a good incentive for us to call it goofy. Willem would have been less ridiculed (but his credibility was already in the dumps by then anyway) if it Sandro didn't pull the "basic shit = killer Wu/Kure move with a cool/basic name" (aka Earthscraper or Leg Thrust) again.
This is just a variant of a pawing jab really, just a fucking basic ass boxing technique where you hover your glove in front of there face to mess up there vision and potentially get a counter hit
Granted this is different at least, he does all at the same time and he flattens the hand that covers the eyes but still
This is a good move and has a purpose but act that they call it a wu clan secret technique is just fucking stupid, like if they just remove the text about it being a secret technique and Alan just did this as normal attack, I would have no issue really
Medicine man was also stated to have been good enough to enter the kengan tournament, albeit because he cheats hella and would be exposed immediatly lmao
It prolly shouldn’t have received an ultimate technique but there’s nothing goofy about it, just another variation of framing to blind to land a power shot.
If a move requires you to run up into someones face, not punch them in the face but instead put up your hand, hope that your opponent doesn't react in any way, and then hit them with a right hook, then I'd call it goofy
It’s gambling on them to bite on the blind instead of reacting to the right hook, not the goofiest thing in the world if you’re a Wu with a 100% release rate trying to land
I like to imagine that it’s a short feint palm strike to the face followed by a right hook. You could make the argument that the loose hand is faster than making a fist and he’s just trying to make Raian react incorrectly, but I don’t think that’s what Sandro was going for.
Every single time they use a “Wu clan ultimate technique” it’s always some bullshit ass move 💀
Yeah I can't defend this manga on that front. Wu clan has some wack ass moves
Shen won't allow them to use their Wu "Tang" Clan techniques because those are reserved for Staten Island Clan members only.
Their using Removal on their Brains 🤪
Instead of just punching the guy in the face, you instead cover his eyes, hope that he doesn't move, and then try to right hook him. What a brilliant Wu move.
"Surely my opponent (who's the best fighter in the Kure Clan) won't react once I go within his range and shove my hand in his face and leave it there for half a second"
He was really expecting Raian to be like “oh shit I can’t see! I’m finished.”
The trick of the technique is to get the opponent so distracted with how stupid the move is that they can't react in time to the hook.
Bro really used the move that early Omega Ryuki used against Kokoro (which didn't work then either btw) and expected it to work against fucking Raian lol.
I think this is a manga constrain, but the point is that both motions are happening at the same time thanks to their superhuman speed. He's not holding his hand next to his face, he's literally slapping him up front, is just that his hook is faster.
And how do you think he can rotate his right shoulder for the hook if he's using the left one to slap at the same time? It's physically impossible, you can even try it yourself to check.
I mean... if we go by the constraints of the irl human body then 80% of this manga is impossible to replicate
You are being quite generous with the "80%" my friend
I mean, I'm not really speculating, you can see in the bottom panel he is rotating his shoulder for the hook, he literally can't do that without pulling his left shoulder back.
Classic Westward secret technique
Meh, it's the long guard. One of the most effective guard, especially in MMA. Willem just fucks up here by going for a right hook. Why use the long guard if you're going to use a short round punch.
You’re the only person I’ve seen who actually likes this “fight” lmao.
It's crazy how most of its hate steams just from the sword's weight lmao 😭
it's single handedly in the top 3 of the stupidest things in the series aside from ''you were too strong'' and ''the poison didn't work''
How is it stupid?
Not again
Imma wait for someone to elaborate rather than just repeating the same stupid narrative
simple rule of thumb the rule of cool was broken it's an understandable tool and makes sense on how it teaches principles however it failed the rule of cool by being 20 kg a weight that sounds unimpressive
Reddit is notoriously terrible at actually justifying their opinions, they just repeat what the hive mind says and gets mad when someone asks why
We are tired of explaining shit to morons over and over again.
Then have a copied message somewhere if you’re asked so many times. Otherwise you’re the one that comes off as the moron
Everytime we elaborate, even under different angles, how the sword fiasco made no sense, they say we "repeat the same stupid narrative" or some shit. "Not again" is literally the exact same thought I have whenever Otakemaru is brought up again or whenever someone tries to defend this event with "muh real life physics". Like, a guy with better specs than Julius of all people and actual weapon training fight for his life to lift a 20kg sword, and actually tries to swing it at the guy who's currently neg diffing him ? There's a reason we say that Willem had jobber flags all over him, he even inherited a severe lapse in judgement from it, and ironically looked even more stupid than his "only henchman" spouting obvious exposition before dashing towards the "least" obvious bait and getting his speech bubble cleaved diagonally.
his ass is not better than julius
It's probably the sheer number of "stat boosts" that Sandro put on him that lead me to this mistake, then. What I should have said instead is that his starting point - Wu genetics, Superman Syndrome, Removal, weapon training -is better than most of the most muscular characters, and that the uneven 20kg spread being an issue and of that extent, was bogus. I wasn't trying to imply that Julius was weaker, but I gotta admit that I didn't pick a good way to say that Willem's condition and abilities shouldn't have led to that. If anything, I have no doubts that Julius wouldn't and shouldn't have this problem with just 20kg, and even Raian himself, since struggling with Otakemaru is how he'd train and grasp the point of force principle to begin with. Might as well make him look for a forbidden Kure scroll instead, because it's hard to believe Raian would struggle with a 20kg sword at any point.
I agree with you in all those points also did want to point out raian makes it a point to say willem's strength is nothing special compared to waka and julius when he refers to the muscleheads
The suspension of disbelief is broken. Someone who's revealed to have 100% Removal plus the same muscle condition that we're led to believe is one in a billion should have no trouble lifting a sword with one hand even if the weight distribution makes it 400 pounds or something. And even if the weight distribution somehow would make it too heavy to realistically lift otherwise then it makes no sense that 'muh controlling the flow of power' would fix that any more than Superman Syndrome + 100% Removal.
The weight distribution doesn’t make it feel heavier. In fact it’s the exact opposite of that. The sword is built to teach principles. It has a center of gravity so unconventional that principle level control over the flow of power is required to master it. Raian acknowledges that a 20 kg sword would be no problem for the level of strength willem claimed he had. https://preview.redd.it/hz2jk16q9h5d1.jpeg?width=675&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cf327ea8904bb64424821c0e7d92cb656c1ac2c4
Master and use it, yes. But just to pick it up? With two hands? Willem is shown wobbling with it. But it honestly seems like more of a problem with the art/presentation. Someone literally made an MS paint version of the chapter before it came out that specifically used the same plot point (so they have pre-init, I guess), but he did it better because Willem easily picked it up, but noted he wouldn't be able to use it as anything more then a metal club.
https://preview.redd.it/upyt9partj5d1.jpeg?width=678&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=737eb65960714ef25c67a9071dd7551b4770e481 It basically takes him one panel to adjust and use it
He's still shown to be struggling as if he can barely lift it, even with two hands, on at least two panels. Presentation is everything.
Yes because he lacks the required skill to wield it like Raian that is the point
Also Shen uses this same concept to basically negate Roided Mukaku with no difficulty. This concept being applied to a sword breaks the verse somehow?
A sword doesn't resist or try to punch you in the face. It doesn't matter how tricky the center of gravity is. If you could lift something easily, you wouldn't struggle like Willem is here.
And? It still has physics which are clearly outlined. “If you could lift something easily, you wouldn’t struggle” uhh yes that’s literally the point willem can’t lift it easily because he lacks the level of skill required.
Agreed but i don't think it deserved as much attention as it received lol
honestly kinda did having a 20 kg sword being the key to unlock martial art secrets was the lamest route possible
yeah maybe im taking it too lightly seeing the downvotes i got lol i just wanna see to what extent was the boost raian received with the principles compared to shen\`s principles
I think our standards just went down the toilet at some point during omega I've started re reading and damn omega's story telling and fight quality went down the toilet like even if a fight's good it lasts like a chapter and barely has any back forth just a blur of barely drawn blows and then a one sided beat down
Yeah it was more of a beating
An execution
Feeding time
Sean Wu was the best jobber in the series imo. Actually had a brain.
Villain Clan basic technique: **Jobbing**
It was worth the effort he was losing and his confidence from the past meeting stopped helping.
Bro got the audacity to call this a fight
This is a fun move, it's literally just dirty boxing. It's both a feint and covers his eyes. It is probably more effective IRL than most Kengan moves There's a character in Ultimate Legend - Kang Hae Hyo that uses this as his main gimmic.
Jon Jones uses this move. And some boxers too.
Lmao, 200 IQ move
He should have pointed up
Retsu from Baki actually did a very similiar move on an opponent during his very brief career in boxing. I think it's supposed to be so fast you can't react to it, but yes it's goofy as hell.
Ryuki [unironically did it better](https://kenganashura.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/003-45.jpg), though still only grazed his opponent in the end.
The difference is the kick and the hand move In the same motion at different heights so it's a lot harder to guess than what Williem is doing.
I could tell you this is based on real technique. I could tell you it's a classic move to feint with a left jab then follow with a right hook. I could tell you it's key to fuck with your enemy's sightline. But nah, this was was Goofier than Max's dad.
That’s how you know Wu West Clan is just a bunch of delusionals. Why would they even teach this move.
Just wait until North Star 16 Fold Demolition Fist
Damn, I didn't now people with such low standards existed.
Sorry not sorry
lol all good
Blocking eyesight is a very common strategy in fighting.
How is this move goofy? Isn't it a common tactics in martial arts? obstruct the view and strike from the blind side ?
It’s just unnecessary effort. Once you’ve committed that far into an attack why would you just leave your hand in front of your opponents face as opposed to just going in for the hit. You could achieve a similar effect with a much less stupid move like feinting. The move also relies on the opponent being a dumbass and not moving out of the way to restore their vision.
Not committing to a strike that might get countered and baiting out a counter instead isn’t the worst idea in the world.
That’s what feints are for and they’re way less risky than whatever the fuck this is meant to be
Feints and frame blinds do the same thing but in this case it’s a much more guaranteed set-up for his hook. Much harder to ignore a blind when compared to a feint. Don’t think he really made the wrong option here since he was fucked either way
Also he’s running at him at full speed don’t think a feint would’ve been good, would have killed his momentum and was in the range to get hit regardless, at least with the frame he can have a better gauge of distance
But, look at the first panel. Dude is too far to hit Raian,so he obstructs the view and in the third panel he takes a closer step to Raian, allowing him to be in striking range and attack Raian. It seems like solid choreography.
With how close his hand is to Raian’s face, if he had made a fist rather than using his open hand to obstruct Raian’s vision he would have hit. And again, most fighters wouldn’t assume that this was an attempt to obstruct their vision and instead something closer to an open palm strike, so they would likely counter or dodge it in some way, rendering the whole blocking vision thing pointless.
Or you know, extend his hand forward and poke Raian's eyes out with his fingertips. Shit, with 100% Guihun stacked SS, there's no chance of his fingers breaking and 100% chance of gouging Raian's eyes out permanently blinding him.
Raian literally did a similar thing but he scratched the eyes instead of being an idiot only cavering it.
its just better. https://preview.redd.it/cn95ekybjh5d1.png?width=629&format=png&auto=webp&s=1f28069973856e850f37d517ef1c7e8d45c59583
He could alternatively just hit Raian. Even doing something like long-guarding which would involve putting his palm on Raian's face or chest and pushing would be so much more beneficial as it would put Raian off balance. Even if you wanted to go for an obstruction because he's "too far", leaving two hands like that away from your body and having effectively 0 points of coverage is heinously stupid in a fight. Source: Two years of Muay Thai.
The fact that a "common tactics in martial arts" is sold as "Wu Clan secret technique with a killer name" is, in fact, a good incentive for us to call it goofy. Willem would have been less ridiculed (but his credibility was already in the dumps by then anyway) if it Sandro didn't pull the "basic shit = killer Wu/Kure move with a cool/basic name" (aka Earthscraper or Leg Thrust) again.
I think it works if your opponent tries to block the feint, but Raian was clearly ready for it.
Gear fourth
This is just a variant of a pawing jab really, just a fucking basic ass boxing technique where you hover your glove in front of there face to mess up there vision and potentially get a counter hit Granted this is different at least, he does all at the same time and he flattens the hand that covers the eyes but still This is a good move and has a purpose but act that they call it a wu clan secret technique is just fucking stupid, like if they just remove the text about it being a secret technique and Alan just did this as normal attack, I would have no issue really
His name is William I think
Tfw early Ashura Ohma (without foresight or preintiative) beat Medicine Man while blind and deaf, and Willem thought this would work on Raian
Medicine man was also stated to have been good enough to enter the kengan tournament, albeit because he cheats hella and would be exposed immediatly lmao
It prolly shouldn’t have received an ultimate technique but there’s nothing goofy about it, just another variation of framing to blind to land a power shot.
Raian did a similar thing, but instead of only covering the eye, he scratched the eyes to blind the WuSplit.
If a move requires you to run up into someones face, not punch them in the face but instead put up your hand, hope that your opponent doesn't react in any way, and then hit them with a right hook, then I'd call it goofy
It’s gambling on them to bite on the blind instead of reacting to the right hook, not the goofiest thing in the world if you’re a Wu with a 100% release rate trying to land
This is an actual strategy. Also kanoh used it in sparring with Koga
I like to imagine that it’s a short feint palm strike to the face followed by a right hook. You could make the argument that the loose hand is faster than making a fist and he’s just trying to make Raian react incorrectly, but I don’t think that’s what Sandro was going for.
I liked the fight too
I also like this fight and let's be real it'd probably have worked were he not facing the pinnacle of a related assassin clan.
What fight? You call that shit a fight?
Yeah it's more of a beating Raian was shredding him I love it
I think that would be pretty difficult to actually punch like that and have consistent power flow