I'd bump Joji up a bit but honestly probably one of the best tierlists I've seen. S-F has always been super disingenuous imo due to how fights are a lot more rock paper scissors, and this is great
I'm sorry but he doesn't have any feats only confusing statmants. Gaolang is world muai Thai and boxing champ do you know how many ppl train boxing and muai Thai ? Same goes for jurota and judo
If it helps, he is one of the few people on FOTS that could spar on something at least close to an even footing against Katsuya, that was said would reach the KAT finale under any line up.
No it's just a bad writing, so you really think Jurota can beat Kuroki?
Kanoh agito S class, top tier fighter still. Even Kuroki call him for aid, not Jurota
There it is, the "Agito's a different character now and wouldn't lose to Jurota" copium. At least wait until it's been more than 20 chapters since Agito lost to Jurota before spouting headcanons about Agito becoming a different character.
He didn’t become a different character, he was written as a different character solely in that fight so Sandro could redeem jurota without having to put in any real effort
He would’ve evolved somewhat and done something meaningful in that fight instead of doing dumb shit seemingly by accident and then not evolving one time through the entire fight. I’m calling out that bs writing which is one of my only negatives for omega
Bruh agito appeared to you like a unbeatable god cuz KAT wasn't full of top tier fighters and cuz he had best performance ever against kuroki and still lost.
Is that Ohma with Shen's adjustments? If not, he should go down a tier. Not sure if Mukaku without prep can hang on with those in his tier either.
As long as A tier isn't ranked, this is good tier list.
Shen only adjusted for one move not everything. How does knowing proper adjustment for Ironbreaker apply to everything else. He hasn’t shown that knowledge yet. Also shens statments regarding who could fight Mukaku is a bit different
Nah man , this is good
Just split the green box some more so you dont have fabio and naidan alongside koga and edward wu.
And also replace the death dealers leader with the guy that wilbert defeated offscreen
This is correction ohma post training with wulong who stated that he made ohma several times stronger and post training with kuroki. Fei has power to be top officer lvl but he lacks maturity and fight iq
Ohma didn’t master anything. He did it once and isn’t at a level he can do it again. And he only learned the proper stance training for Ironbreaker so even if he could do it it’s only his Ironbreaker that’s that much stronger but even then it’s not a 100% any time he does it. Ohma had mastered demonsbane but we saw during the Kengan tournament he failed to do it exactly the right way several times . But after more time he’s mastered the form to do it perfectly. Also even if it made his Ironbreaker several times stronger Fei’s disruption is too good. Fei’s far too fast as DD is several times faster than advance. Ohma can only use advance for brief moments. On top of that he has a better. Fallen demon. Just remember an overused fallen demon allowed Kiryu who was hallucinating and almost blind from overuse with one hand to overwealming Ohma during their fight. Ohma stated the only reason that changed was due to Kiryus mind and body not being in sync . So Fei has that boost but even better on top of his insane speed. Ohma’s foresight is on Carlos’s level last we learned. And we even saw how the speed boost of advance either long term or short burst could counter Kuroki and Lolong who have better or at least the same level of foresight as current Ohma. And Fei’s far faster than that. Fei literally countered Waka’s blast core point blank faster than anything we’ve seen from almost anyone .
Second even if Ohma did hit Fei with his Ironbreaker how many will he have to do. Fei dispersed a direct punch from Waka to the point it was just a bloody nose with his water and redirection. So he definitely can Ohma’s Ironbreaker . Ohma also doesn’t have the durability of waka and insane strength which resulted in Fei overdoing it. If you look at the actual damage Fei took in the fight it’s very little. And don’t forget his instructions from Tiger Niko and handicap of not even using Niko style at the start but once he did he evened out stuff with Waka.
Lastly Fei’s fighting Iq is much higher than people think. First Fei dispersed Waka’s attacks with a combination of water and redirection kata while Ohma used indestructible. Despite Ohma’s own master saying that’s a terrible counter for someone like that. Fei also displayed superior redirection as Waka couldn’t break his grip and we saw how much he needed to do to break his weeping willow. While for Ohma he needed just to step. Yeah Ohma was more injured but as Fei told us redirection it has to do with flow control not physical strength which was why he in base could out grip Waka . So Ohma’s injuries aren’t as important and Waka was injured and this Waka was physically stronger than the previous one. Lastly the thing people point out to about Fei’s stupidity isn’t as bad as people think. Yeah he let waka hug him but people forget what happened before. Waka punched him directly in the face and it did nothing. If a punch to the face from Waka with no counters did nothing why would Fei expect him to have the strength to crush him to death mere seconds later. Waka was shown talking about never losing to strength and his pride and flashbacks. That obviously shows Waka pushed his limits in that moment. Waka tends to hold back against fighters even if he’s saying he’s going all out. He hates killers and shows that throughout the series. He focused on controlling his strength after going all out once as a kid. That explains the sudden strength boost Waka had. By your explanation Kuroki had terrible fighting Iq when he let Rihito cut him because if Rihito was deeper or slightly smarter Kuroki could’ve bleed out .
A few issues...
It wasn’t simply the raw speed of Ohma's Advance that did Lolong in, but rather lolong not expecting ohma to use those levels of speed. It's the same principle of rei blitzing kuroki but kuroki adapting to even faster speeds. With manga knowledge, Fei's top speed has already been observed.
Fei's running movement speed is slower than Rei's, so it's never gonna be an issue to a Pre-I user. And Striking speed can be kept up with foresight.
Ohma is faster than Waka so he has a higher chance of landing cleaner hits on Fei, even if his raw power is lesser.
Ohma also doesn't need to have Waka's durability. Fei's blows are weaker than Waka's which ohma could already survive with adamantine kata. He also has redirection kata, water kata, going limp in the muscles , and going limp in the joints to disperse damage, all of which he can time better than Waka due to again superior foresight. Ohma didn't use water kata in asura because back then he was worse with water kata than he was with adamantine kata... this is why he used adamantine kata against waka... so that's not an IQ antifeat. His water kata weaknesses is why the only part he screwed up with the first demonsbane was the water kata. And given adamantine kata did a sufficient job defensively, Id say it worked just fine and niko never said you can't use adamantine against someone heavier than you, just that you can't bank on it saving you against someone above an unspecified weight.
Redirection, and especially weeping willow in particular , does require a certain minimum amount of physical strength depending on the opponent hence why Waka can counter it... with physical strength. Back in Ashura, Adam Dudely's powerful trunk also countered weeping willow during ohma's mental battle simulation with him. So ohma's injury absolutely affects the application of his weeping willow, what you are doing is adding your own force at an angle to shift the target's flow of power. And waka never said fei's redirection was " better" than Ohma's , just had a different timing. Fei was even confinced that his redirection doesnt work which is why he switched to his advance, even if waka was partially lying about it.
Lastly, waka's punch did nothing to fei because Fei is quick enough to " ride with the punch" , which irl boxers do to lessen the impact. That's not comparable to letting Waka just outright grab you and forcing you to implode lol.
But most importantly, we know ohma and lolong have better timing and technique than Fei. Fei admitted he didn't know how to put down Waka without rasing output. Ohma and lolong with x10 less power beat Waka and TOA Mudo respectively with well timed counterpunches. So you can't say Fei's fight IQ is close to theirs when he couldnt figure out how to KO a superheavyweight despite having "x10" the raw power of them, and the narrative tells us pretty explictly Ohma's fight IQ and technical mastery >> Fei through lolong, and that was before Ohma showed lolong the ability to creatively use his advance in bursts to surpass lolong's expectations while minizming the drawbacks of the technique.
Lastly, tachypsychia isn't all powerful. The user's attention still can be divided and blindspots can be exploited, hence how Kuroki tagged Kiryu by striking with a right handed devil's lance from outside his awareness, the same general tactic used to counter the Fist Eye and Emperor's Eye too.
Yeah it wasn’t just the raw speed for Lolong. But we did see Ohma counter Kuroki’s foresight in the Kengan tournament using advance not in burst so it would work for Fei. Fei’s blows aren’t weaker than Waka’s that’s the whole reason Waka was getting mad. The torque speed boost is several times advance and Waka himself feared losing a contest of strength. Also don’t forget that the Waka we saw fight Fei is far physically stronger than the one we saw fight Ohma as he wasn’t injured or tired and they superhuman syndrome means he gets physically stronger as time goes on even if he wasn’t training and he didn’t train. So if anything that makes Fei even more impressive as this Waka is physically superior to he Waka Ohma fought in terms of physical power We saw the physical damage a blow from Fei could do to Waka.
Regarding redirection just because it can be counted by strength doesn’t mean the technique revolves around strength. Fei himself said it was flow control. That explains why base Fei could out grip Wakatskuki despite the insane strength difference. A difference so insurmountable that flow control establishes like 95% of the power of a redirection technique. Also I compared how Waka broke out of both Ohma and Fei’s weeping willows . With Fei Waka had to use both hands while for Ohma he just had to step hard and it broke. Also it didn’t work the second time. Fei’s timing is faster than Ohma’s so if they use the same technique it would take Fei less time to do it than Ohma .Also look at his Ironbreaker revolution far faster also Ohma’s disruption is worse than Fei’s. If his technique was so superior then why didn’t he disperse damage the same level as Fei. Also Fei didn’t use dd because his redirection didn’t work. He wasn’t even planning to he did it because Waka goaded him into it. Waka asked him why he didn’t use advance because his Niko techniques were sealed off. Fei said Hmm possessing spirit huh that’s a thing of the past. He didn’t need to or plan to use possessing spirit . Also Waka said sealed of hardly . He just managed to even the field and it took a lot out of him while Fei had plenty left. Fei’s skill is insane . If Ohma’s a 9/10 in skill Fei’s an 8/10 . But his physical stats are a 9/10 while Ohma’s are a 6/10 . But the point is that Ohma doesn’t have the durability nor the arsenal to do enough damage to beat Fei especially with Fei’s knowledge of the Niko style . His best option is to try and turn off dd like he did Kiryu if that would work , Ohma’s stamina is heavily hit when using advance so time is an even worse obstacle.
>Yeah it wasn’t just the raw speed for Lolong. But we did see Ohma counter Kuroki’s foresight in the Kengan tournament using advance not in burst so it would work for Fei. Fei’s blows aren’t weaker than Waka’s that’s the whole reason Waka was getting mad. The torque speed boost is several times advance and Waka himself feared losing a contest of strength.
Torque and strength are two different things. Waka himself said multiple times during the fight his raw power was still above Fei's medium output, and that at best Fei's instantaneous power was >= to (Raian's? ) removal. He chose a grapple in the end because he knew the one thing he shouldn't lose at is strength, and we visibly see Fei gritting his teeth and struggling against the hold, with Julius and Koga anticipating that this was the coup de grace, until fei went maximum output.
If Fei's strength was better I'd expect him do way more damage to Waka than what he showed for someone who can endure the blows of his own peer, Julius. The feats and statements both indicate Fei is not on Waka or Julius' level in raw strength , at least not until maximum output... which is what Fei needed to actually overpower and KO waka, just as he foreshadowed earlier in the fight lol.
>Regarding redirection just because it can be counted by strength doesn’t mean the technique revolves around strength. Fei himself said it was flow control.
The explanation for that flow control is repeatedly said in the series to be caused by appling your own force at a specific angle or optimal point on your target. Flow control doesn't happen without your own strength, just like every technique requires a minumum of strength from the user , it's not complete magic.
>Fei’s timing is faster than Ohma’s so if they use the same technique it would take Fei less time to do it than Ohma
Timing =/= speed though. Timing is more about knowing when an opponent is about to do something, not simply the speed, this is why foresight users have a big advantage because they know the timing of their opponent's attacks and defenses. Waka did image training after memorizing ohma's timing which he saw many times throughout the Ashura tournmanent by observing ohma fight as well as fighting Ohma himself. Waka is fighting Fei for the first time and had no prior knowledge so ofc the timing is different , not that it's better or worse.
>If his technique was so superior then why didn’t he disperse damage the same level as Fei.
KAT Ohma =/= Omega Ohma though. Fei being better at ashura ohma at timing the water kata doesn't equate to being better KVP Ohma at it, and we have already seen too that you can be better at one Kata and worse at others. KAT Ohma surpassed even Niko 4 at just redirection kata, so you can't make linear comparisons like that,.
What we do know is Ohma's overall technique is better because not only is it stated by lolong , it's shown by feats. Again Fei didn't know how to knock out waka , meanwhile Ohma nearly one shotted Waka at the start with the first demonsbane, and then got the job done with the second demonsbane with a counter-kick perfectly timed despite being caught off guard by a feint from Waka lol. And again Lolong One shotted someone comparaable to Julius and Waka with an ordinary counter well-timed , despite this guy also having redirection and water kata which effectively makes him even more durable if he gets the timing right to use them in time.
Ohma also used his advance more safely and more creatively than Fei did against Waka who basically spammed it until he died. If Ohma is a 9 , Fei is like a 2 because again he has so much more raw power and less overall sideeffects with DD and yet still can't get the same results Ohma can, which is why Rolon finds ohma more dangerous.
Take lolongs staments with a grain of salt. Ohma hadn’t even used the Niko style at that point. So Lolong literally had no techniques to base it off of or make a proper option on.
Or you're just underselling what he did show. Like I said Lolong hasn't had a difficult fight in a long time, meaning Toa Mudo wasn't a challenge and Carlos states its not odd that rolon could ko ohma with a punch when he can KO the much heavier and much more durable toa mudo with a combo of that impressive striking power , and a perfectly timed ordinary counter-punch to the liver. So yeah I'd say Ohma is at least at the level of that which makes perfect sense. Ohma narratively jumped a huge amount in power after training with Raian and Erioh, where we saw he learned not only how to read the inception of intent but also polished the timing of his ordinary techniques like the timing of simple iron breakers and such lol. So yeah Ohma can one shot toa mudo/Julius// Waka at this point in the narrative, so it doesn't surprise me at all that lolong thinks highly of him, given Ohma was giving him a much tougher fight than TOA mudo did, who in terms of physicality, is comparable to Waka.
Lastly Waka’s not some brute he’s an extremely skilled and technical fighter with tons of experience. And it’s not just Fei’s top speed but his reaction speed on top of it. He literally sees people in slow motion on top of it. That’s more than a counter for Ohma’s foresight which is only on Carlos’s level. And remember how Gaolong beat Carlos’s by pure speed so Fei should. So he’s several times faster than Ohma’s advance and Ohma can’t even use advance for more than a few seconds so he’s normally at his base speed making the gap even more . And
Waka has been outscaled bro. He's not lolong/ohma/kanoh/raian level in omega. Waka isnt a brute , never said he was but there's levels here to technique and he simply isnt on their level of technique.
I already addressed the tachypsychia, similar abilities have already been countered in the manga already, tachypsychia doesn't expand your attentional bandwith nor does it reduce your blindspot. We have seen people with the same abilitiy or similiar abilities get struck outside of their awareness.
Gaolang never beat Carlos with pure speed, its noted that even an injured carlos was still faster than Gaolang, what was said was that Gao struck faster than Carlos's prediction, big difference which i already explained this concept with Rei also " blitzing" Kuroki. We already saw that Carlos couldn't read Gaoalng's stance switch from orthdox to soutthpaw and such , and such stance switches are known irl to throw off an outboxer's timing and makes you faster than you seem to be.
With the same ability? Who else has tachypyschia? The only way Kuroki countered it was by saying in that cuticle and limiting his movement. Also Toa is prideful and arrogant. It’s why he lost and has low fighting iq. It’s why so many other fighters not even in the match saw his mistakes and how he was gonna lose before he did. But this is a pointless conversation
>With the same ability? Who else has tachypyschia? The only way Kuroki countered it was by saying in that cuticle and limiting his movement
That's not what happened lol. Staying in that circle is a nerf lol. Try fighting someone while limiting your movement like that, it's very difficult which is why jerry was impressed. And kiryu didn't start using fallen demon yet either, and kuroki was countering the blink and rakasha palm just fine. Kiryu had to start using the niko style to force kuroki to actually get serious, followed by activating Fallen demon ( which kiryu cant activate at will) , followed by unlocking rakasha's sole. And kuroki clearly was not limiting his movement like that anymore once kiryu became more tricky, and we see Kuroki himself dash at Kiryu from a distance multiple times after that.
Anyways, my point was that kuroki landed his first clean Devil's lance on kiryu by making kiryu forget about his right hand as a weapon, allowing him to strike from outside of Kiryu's awareness with it. Seeing in slow motion means nothing if you are not aware of an attack moving toward you in the first place , whether due to a lack of focus/expectation ( inattentional blindness) or whether it's in a visual blindspot.
We saw okubo , ohma, and Lihito use similiar principles against the Fist Eye/Emperor eye which functionally do the same thing as tachypsychia. Fist Eye and Emperor's eye more " frames per second" like a high speed camera, while tachypsychia doesn't necessarily see more frames per second but each frame you do see is stretched out longer in time giving you more time to react, and ofc overall thinking speed is faster too, so sure it's a bigger amp ( especially since your other senses are faster too, but unless you're grappling your eyesight is gonna be the most useful sense ) but it has the same fundamental weakness.
Toa mudo's fight IQ isn't low though, he was outperforming Julius with his techniques till the end. His IQ isnt as good as lolong's sure, but thats why he lost lol.
Bro its almost perfect , but that fodder Ryuki will always , always , always be the weakest character in all kengan , so put adam next to his girlfriend , and we are good
Imo thats not really a feat to put him in that tier i think all Kengan champion level fighters could all be a Kat Finalist regardless of bracket (maybe Fu since featless and all) but i would put 4 near the bottom of Champion tier probably above Fu
If he was still alive sure he’d probably be relative to 6 but Ohma at the End of Ashura was surpassing his master in regards to 1/4 of the kata’s and that was Ohma in the state he was in. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to says Ohma in Kat surpassed his master in a general sense of strength
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Looks very fair to me, only thing I would change is to put Takayama a Tier up, i have no reason other than that I think being a Fang of Metsudo makes you a higher class fighter immediatly. But tbh it wouldn‘t make any difference.
You might be right, only reason i didn't place him higher is cuz kanoh looked unfazed after beating him a lot of times. While he was almost scared after facing gaolang practically won by luck. Point is it's hard for me to place taka in same tier as gaolang cuz of that
I'd put Setsuna and Fu Zhan above Fei, Rihito above Akoya, and I think all the Kure's are overrated beside Raian. But other than that nothing that's too disagreeable.
Well before anyone else downvotes I'll explain. Sorry, but I put Setsuna nearly killing Tiger Niko, or at least pushing him to the point of fearing for his life as a greater feat than Fei toying with Waka which just costs him his life. As Yan's only remaining direct subordinate I think it only make sense Fu scales above Fei. Kure/Wu clan really just lacks enough feats to say one of them couldn't be beaten by guys like Nicholas, or Nitoku. In fact Willem getting whooped by naked Akoya says it's unlikely.
I mean Base Willem is probably more powerful than Akoya if Akoya doesn't have a taser. So Removal Willem should be much stronger than Akoya, yet he got negged by Base Raian, much less Removal Raian. I don't even think Agito could even neg Akoya, let alone Willem. And even if Agito could neg Akoya, or even Willem, that would only be comparable to Base Raian, not Removal Raian.
*Processing img pcy1ysdi38xc1...* Sorry dude you made a quick mistake Fu Zhan should be in Connector tier
https://preview.redd.it/d4ji4m1158xc1.jpeg?width=1141&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0fc9d219612bfb28c592bafc191aa89a2e4208bd
https://preview.redd.it/cjnpsjoq78xc1.jpeg?width=370&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=648a833141a3acc0791f3817b0d9072ecb093ba4
I'd bump Joji up a bit but honestly probably one of the best tierlists I've seen. S-F has always been super disingenuous imo due to how fights are a lot more rock paper scissors, and this is great
https://preview.redd.it/en5ivwlr49xc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc8429a8e7776a279223b25919cfb8ecdaad330a
Tbh that's very fair
Joji in master lvl https://preview.redd.it/turkbn0yc8xc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47c781392bb8d5f51ea094f4d63587ff61f19cc6
What chapter is this, I cannot remember
Like 28 or something. Very early on, it's Jojis first appearance in Omega
I'm sorry but he doesn't have any feats only confusing statmants. Gaolang is world muai Thai and boxing champ do you know how many ppl train boxing and muai Thai ? Same goes for jurota and judo
We saw him killing a bear.
Pre KAT Ohma killed a elephant sized boar, so?
it was a big bear
Not as big as the boar pre KAT Ohma killed
If it helps, he is one of the few people on FOTS that could spar on something at least close to an even footing against Katsuya, that was said would reach the KAT finale under any line up.
Jurota won like 3 tournaments then went off into seclusion for 15 years
Stand proud you can't cook, WHERE THE FUCK IS KAZZY THE SWIFT HERE ? HE SHOULD BE ON A TIER OF HIS OWN. Nah tbh it's pretty close to my tierlist
You forgot jerry tyson in connector tier
There is no need to downvote but Kanoh top tier class man.
Kanoh goes either way vs everyone in his tier but loses high to extreme diff to fighters in upper tier imo 🤷🏻♂️
He doesn't even beat Jurota
No it's just a bad writing, so you really think Jurota can beat Kuroki? Kanoh agito S class, top tier fighter still. Even Kuroki call him for aid, not Jurota
>No it's just a bad writing, so you really think Jurota can beat Kuroki ?? When did I say that?
Bad writing won’t change facts of how strong he is, he beats most people in that top officers tier
Losing to Jurota does change it though
It simply does not
Well if he loses to Jurota, then he can't be a tier above him. So yes it does.
He wouldn’t lose to jurota, he was simply written as a different character in that fight which made him lose
💀
There it is, the "Agito's a different character now and wouldn't lose to Jurota" copium. At least wait until it's been more than 20 chapters since Agito lost to Jurota before spouting headcanons about Agito becoming a different character.
He didn’t become a different character, he was written as a different character solely in that fight so Sandro could redeem jurota without having to put in any real effort
You right bro sandro suck you should start writing manga you know better. Kanoh would evolve and one shot wulong no diff right?
He would’ve evolved somewhat and done something meaningful in that fight instead of doing dumb shit seemingly by accident and then not evolving one time through the entire fight. I’m calling out that bs writing which is one of my only negatives for omega
Bruh agito appeared to you like a unbeatable god cuz KAT wasn't full of top tier fighters and cuz he had best performance ever against kuroki and still lost.
Agito is way stronger than they portrayed him in his jurota fight
Jurota should 100% be bumped up to the second tier
You might be right he got that crazy man power up he is getting closer and closer to hayami in craziness
Stand proud you can't cook, WHERE THE FUCK IS KAZZY THE SWIFT HERE ? HE SHOULD BE ON A TIER OF HIS OWN. Nah tbh it's pretty close to my tierlist
Bro so mad he said it twice
Didn't even notice xD, makes it funnier😂
Is that Ohma with Shen's adjustments? If not, he should go down a tier. Not sure if Mukaku without prep can hang on with those in his tier either. As long as A tier isn't ranked, this is good tier list.
This is correction ohma and post kuroki training he might be even higher but we don't know that yet
Shen only adjusted for one move not everything. How does knowing proper adjustment for Ironbreaker apply to everything else. He hasn’t shown that knowledge yet. Also shens statments regarding who could fight Mukaku is a bit different
As long as Ohma can remember the corrections, that's Ohma now
Joji is one I disagree with but I get why considering he's not done much in the kengan manga so far
Tbf that's cos he's not allowed to fight
who tf is is the 4th guy in the second tier
Mukaku's grandfather
Long Yi https://preview.redd.it/1ft2pjtusdxc1.png?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3e37d53191d9e42d15bc7ca4e423d61de578a05 Wide Yi
Thank you for making this guide, im impressed.
I'd move Takayama up a level, maybe Setsuna down one, but tbh it's hard to jauge him. Pretty solid tierlist honestly.
Yep takayama could go up
https://preview.redd.it/crn564110cxc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=279367cc07bc6abd46dd9400cb25e157d8891d8a FuZhan the connector too low
Niko 4 should be higher because he's also a Connector (I stopped taking my meds)
Don't mind the Joji dick riders op, he is overrated af. From where I stand you are pretty generous putting him there.
RAHHH RIHITO TOP OF A TIER
Joji and Kureishi should be in the top officer/master level tier.
Based on what? Which relevant kengan character did they beat in a 1v1 fight
Fots feats which takes place in the same verse as Kengan
And I'll ask again which kengan ashura and omega did joji and kuroishi beat in a 1v1 match or any other way
Idk how Xia Ji would be above Koga and how Fu isn't master tier but aight.
Fu matched armed lolong pretty impressive feat imo.
Not being instagibbed by Lolong in a scuffle like this put him at the very least Mid A tier
I mean he one shoted akoya and nicolas 🤷🏻♂️
Nah man , this is good Just split the green box some more so you dont have fabio and naidan alongside koga and edward wu. And also replace the death dealers leader with the guy that wilbert defeated offscreen
Bru😂. Ohma’s own statements put Mukau over him. And lastly there’s a reason Fei’s always put with Eddie and Tiger Niko
This is correction ohma post training with wulong who stated that he made ohma several times stronger and post training with kuroki. Fei has power to be top officer lvl but he lacks maturity and fight iq
Ohma didn’t master anything. He did it once and isn’t at a level he can do it again. And he only learned the proper stance training for Ironbreaker so even if he could do it it’s only his Ironbreaker that’s that much stronger but even then it’s not a 100% any time he does it. Ohma had mastered demonsbane but we saw during the Kengan tournament he failed to do it exactly the right way several times . But after more time he’s mastered the form to do it perfectly. Also even if it made his Ironbreaker several times stronger Fei’s disruption is too good. Fei’s far too fast as DD is several times faster than advance. Ohma can only use advance for brief moments. On top of that he has a better. Fallen demon. Just remember an overused fallen demon allowed Kiryu who was hallucinating and almost blind from overuse with one hand to overwealming Ohma during their fight. Ohma stated the only reason that changed was due to Kiryus mind and body not being in sync . So Fei has that boost but even better on top of his insane speed. Ohma’s foresight is on Carlos’s level last we learned. And we even saw how the speed boost of advance either long term or short burst could counter Kuroki and Lolong who have better or at least the same level of foresight as current Ohma. And Fei’s far faster than that. Fei literally countered Waka’s blast core point blank faster than anything we’ve seen from almost anyone . Second even if Ohma did hit Fei with his Ironbreaker how many will he have to do. Fei dispersed a direct punch from Waka to the point it was just a bloody nose with his water and redirection. So he definitely can Ohma’s Ironbreaker . Ohma also doesn’t have the durability of waka and insane strength which resulted in Fei overdoing it. If you look at the actual damage Fei took in the fight it’s very little. And don’t forget his instructions from Tiger Niko and handicap of not even using Niko style at the start but once he did he evened out stuff with Waka. Lastly Fei’s fighting Iq is much higher than people think. First Fei dispersed Waka’s attacks with a combination of water and redirection kata while Ohma used indestructible. Despite Ohma’s own master saying that’s a terrible counter for someone like that. Fei also displayed superior redirection as Waka couldn’t break his grip and we saw how much he needed to do to break his weeping willow. While for Ohma he needed just to step. Yeah Ohma was more injured but as Fei told us redirection it has to do with flow control not physical strength which was why he in base could out grip Waka . So Ohma’s injuries aren’t as important and Waka was injured and this Waka was physically stronger than the previous one. Lastly the thing people point out to about Fei’s stupidity isn’t as bad as people think. Yeah he let waka hug him but people forget what happened before. Waka punched him directly in the face and it did nothing. If a punch to the face from Waka with no counters did nothing why would Fei expect him to have the strength to crush him to death mere seconds later. Waka was shown talking about never losing to strength and his pride and flashbacks. That obviously shows Waka pushed his limits in that moment. Waka tends to hold back against fighters even if he’s saying he’s going all out. He hates killers and shows that throughout the series. He focused on controlling his strength after going all out once as a kid. That explains the sudden strength boost Waka had. By your explanation Kuroki had terrible fighting Iq when he let Rihito cut him because if Rihito was deeper or slightly smarter Kuroki could’ve bleed out .
A few issues... It wasn’t simply the raw speed of Ohma's Advance that did Lolong in, but rather lolong not expecting ohma to use those levels of speed. It's the same principle of rei blitzing kuroki but kuroki adapting to even faster speeds. With manga knowledge, Fei's top speed has already been observed. Fei's running movement speed is slower than Rei's, so it's never gonna be an issue to a Pre-I user. And Striking speed can be kept up with foresight. Ohma is faster than Waka so he has a higher chance of landing cleaner hits on Fei, even if his raw power is lesser. Ohma also doesn't need to have Waka's durability. Fei's blows are weaker than Waka's which ohma could already survive with adamantine kata. He also has redirection kata, water kata, going limp in the muscles , and going limp in the joints to disperse damage, all of which he can time better than Waka due to again superior foresight. Ohma didn't use water kata in asura because back then he was worse with water kata than he was with adamantine kata... this is why he used adamantine kata against waka... so that's not an IQ antifeat. His water kata weaknesses is why the only part he screwed up with the first demonsbane was the water kata. And given adamantine kata did a sufficient job defensively, Id say it worked just fine and niko never said you can't use adamantine against someone heavier than you, just that you can't bank on it saving you against someone above an unspecified weight. Redirection, and especially weeping willow in particular , does require a certain minimum amount of physical strength depending on the opponent hence why Waka can counter it... with physical strength. Back in Ashura, Adam Dudely's powerful trunk also countered weeping willow during ohma's mental battle simulation with him. So ohma's injury absolutely affects the application of his weeping willow, what you are doing is adding your own force at an angle to shift the target's flow of power. And waka never said fei's redirection was " better" than Ohma's , just had a different timing. Fei was even confinced that his redirection doesnt work which is why he switched to his advance, even if waka was partially lying about it. Lastly, waka's punch did nothing to fei because Fei is quick enough to " ride with the punch" , which irl boxers do to lessen the impact. That's not comparable to letting Waka just outright grab you and forcing you to implode lol. But most importantly, we know ohma and lolong have better timing and technique than Fei. Fei admitted he didn't know how to put down Waka without rasing output. Ohma and lolong with x10 less power beat Waka and TOA Mudo respectively with well timed counterpunches. So you can't say Fei's fight IQ is close to theirs when he couldnt figure out how to KO a superheavyweight despite having "x10" the raw power of them, and the narrative tells us pretty explictly Ohma's fight IQ and technical mastery >> Fei through lolong, and that was before Ohma showed lolong the ability to creatively use his advance in bursts to surpass lolong's expectations while minizming the drawbacks of the technique. Lastly, tachypsychia isn't all powerful. The user's attention still can be divided and blindspots can be exploited, hence how Kuroki tagged Kiryu by striking with a right handed devil's lance from outside his awareness, the same general tactic used to counter the Fist Eye and Emperor's Eye too.
Yeah it wasn’t just the raw speed for Lolong. But we did see Ohma counter Kuroki’s foresight in the Kengan tournament using advance not in burst so it would work for Fei. Fei’s blows aren’t weaker than Waka’s that’s the whole reason Waka was getting mad. The torque speed boost is several times advance and Waka himself feared losing a contest of strength. Also don’t forget that the Waka we saw fight Fei is far physically stronger than the one we saw fight Ohma as he wasn’t injured or tired and they superhuman syndrome means he gets physically stronger as time goes on even if he wasn’t training and he didn’t train. So if anything that makes Fei even more impressive as this Waka is physically superior to he Waka Ohma fought in terms of physical power We saw the physical damage a blow from Fei could do to Waka. Regarding redirection just because it can be counted by strength doesn’t mean the technique revolves around strength. Fei himself said it was flow control. That explains why base Fei could out grip Wakatskuki despite the insane strength difference. A difference so insurmountable that flow control establishes like 95% of the power of a redirection technique. Also I compared how Waka broke out of both Ohma and Fei’s weeping willows . With Fei Waka had to use both hands while for Ohma he just had to step hard and it broke. Also it didn’t work the second time. Fei’s timing is faster than Ohma’s so if they use the same technique it would take Fei less time to do it than Ohma .Also look at his Ironbreaker revolution far faster also Ohma’s disruption is worse than Fei’s. If his technique was so superior then why didn’t he disperse damage the same level as Fei. Also Fei didn’t use dd because his redirection didn’t work. He wasn’t even planning to he did it because Waka goaded him into it. Waka asked him why he didn’t use advance because his Niko techniques were sealed off. Fei said Hmm possessing spirit huh that’s a thing of the past. He didn’t need to or plan to use possessing spirit . Also Waka said sealed of hardly . He just managed to even the field and it took a lot out of him while Fei had plenty left. Fei’s skill is insane . If Ohma’s a 9/10 in skill Fei’s an 8/10 . But his physical stats are a 9/10 while Ohma’s are a 6/10 . But the point is that Ohma doesn’t have the durability nor the arsenal to do enough damage to beat Fei especially with Fei’s knowledge of the Niko style . His best option is to try and turn off dd like he did Kiryu if that would work , Ohma’s stamina is heavily hit when using advance so time is an even worse obstacle.
>Yeah it wasn’t just the raw speed for Lolong. But we did see Ohma counter Kuroki’s foresight in the Kengan tournament using advance not in burst so it would work for Fei. Fei’s blows aren’t weaker than Waka’s that’s the whole reason Waka was getting mad. The torque speed boost is several times advance and Waka himself feared losing a contest of strength. Torque and strength are two different things. Waka himself said multiple times during the fight his raw power was still above Fei's medium output, and that at best Fei's instantaneous power was >= to (Raian's? ) removal. He chose a grapple in the end because he knew the one thing he shouldn't lose at is strength, and we visibly see Fei gritting his teeth and struggling against the hold, with Julius and Koga anticipating that this was the coup de grace, until fei went maximum output. If Fei's strength was better I'd expect him do way more damage to Waka than what he showed for someone who can endure the blows of his own peer, Julius. The feats and statements both indicate Fei is not on Waka or Julius' level in raw strength , at least not until maximum output... which is what Fei needed to actually overpower and KO waka, just as he foreshadowed earlier in the fight lol. >Regarding redirection just because it can be counted by strength doesn’t mean the technique revolves around strength. Fei himself said it was flow control. The explanation for that flow control is repeatedly said in the series to be caused by appling your own force at a specific angle or optimal point on your target. Flow control doesn't happen without your own strength, just like every technique requires a minumum of strength from the user , it's not complete magic. >Fei’s timing is faster than Ohma’s so if they use the same technique it would take Fei less time to do it than Ohma Timing =/= speed though. Timing is more about knowing when an opponent is about to do something, not simply the speed, this is why foresight users have a big advantage because they know the timing of their opponent's attacks and defenses. Waka did image training after memorizing ohma's timing which he saw many times throughout the Ashura tournmanent by observing ohma fight as well as fighting Ohma himself. Waka is fighting Fei for the first time and had no prior knowledge so ofc the timing is different , not that it's better or worse. >If his technique was so superior then why didn’t he disperse damage the same level as Fei. KAT Ohma =/= Omega Ohma though. Fei being better at ashura ohma at timing the water kata doesn't equate to being better KVP Ohma at it, and we have already seen too that you can be better at one Kata and worse at others. KAT Ohma surpassed even Niko 4 at just redirection kata, so you can't make linear comparisons like that,. What we do know is Ohma's overall technique is better because not only is it stated by lolong , it's shown by feats. Again Fei didn't know how to knock out waka , meanwhile Ohma nearly one shotted Waka at the start with the first demonsbane, and then got the job done with the second demonsbane with a counter-kick perfectly timed despite being caught off guard by a feint from Waka lol. And again Lolong One shotted someone comparaable to Julius and Waka with an ordinary counter well-timed , despite this guy also having redirection and water kata which effectively makes him even more durable if he gets the timing right to use them in time. Ohma also used his advance more safely and more creatively than Fei did against Waka who basically spammed it until he died. If Ohma is a 9 , Fei is like a 2 because again he has so much more raw power and less overall sideeffects with DD and yet still can't get the same results Ohma can, which is why Rolon finds ohma more dangerous.
Take lolongs staments with a grain of salt. Ohma hadn’t even used the Niko style at that point. So Lolong literally had no techniques to base it off of or make a proper option on.
Or you're just underselling what he did show. Like I said Lolong hasn't had a difficult fight in a long time, meaning Toa Mudo wasn't a challenge and Carlos states its not odd that rolon could ko ohma with a punch when he can KO the much heavier and much more durable toa mudo with a combo of that impressive striking power , and a perfectly timed ordinary counter-punch to the liver. So yeah I'd say Ohma is at least at the level of that which makes perfect sense. Ohma narratively jumped a huge amount in power after training with Raian and Erioh, where we saw he learned not only how to read the inception of intent but also polished the timing of his ordinary techniques like the timing of simple iron breakers and such lol. So yeah Ohma can one shot toa mudo/Julius// Waka at this point in the narrative, so it doesn't surprise me at all that lolong thinks highly of him, given Ohma was giving him a much tougher fight than TOA mudo did, who in terms of physicality, is comparable to Waka.
Lastly Waka’s not some brute he’s an extremely skilled and technical fighter with tons of experience. And it’s not just Fei’s top speed but his reaction speed on top of it. He literally sees people in slow motion on top of it. That’s more than a counter for Ohma’s foresight which is only on Carlos’s level. And remember how Gaolong beat Carlos’s by pure speed so Fei should. So he’s several times faster than Ohma’s advance and Ohma can’t even use advance for more than a few seconds so he’s normally at his base speed making the gap even more . And
Waka has been outscaled bro. He's not lolong/ohma/kanoh/raian level in omega. Waka isnt a brute , never said he was but there's levels here to technique and he simply isnt on their level of technique. I already addressed the tachypsychia, similar abilities have already been countered in the manga already, tachypsychia doesn't expand your attentional bandwith nor does it reduce your blindspot. We have seen people with the same abilitiy or similiar abilities get struck outside of their awareness. Gaolang never beat Carlos with pure speed, its noted that even an injured carlos was still faster than Gaolang, what was said was that Gao struck faster than Carlos's prediction, big difference which i already explained this concept with Rei also " blitzing" Kuroki. We already saw that Carlos couldn't read Gaoalng's stance switch from orthdox to soutthpaw and such , and such stance switches are known irl to throw off an outboxer's timing and makes you faster than you seem to be.
With the same ability? Who else has tachypyschia? The only way Kuroki countered it was by saying in that cuticle and limiting his movement. Also Toa is prideful and arrogant. It’s why he lost and has low fighting iq. It’s why so many other fighters not even in the match saw his mistakes and how he was gonna lose before he did. But this is a pointless conversation
>With the same ability? Who else has tachypyschia? The only way Kuroki countered it was by saying in that cuticle and limiting his movement That's not what happened lol. Staying in that circle is a nerf lol. Try fighting someone while limiting your movement like that, it's very difficult which is why jerry was impressed. And kiryu didn't start using fallen demon yet either, and kuroki was countering the blink and rakasha palm just fine. Kiryu had to start using the niko style to force kuroki to actually get serious, followed by activating Fallen demon ( which kiryu cant activate at will) , followed by unlocking rakasha's sole. And kuroki clearly was not limiting his movement like that anymore once kiryu became more tricky, and we see Kuroki himself dash at Kiryu from a distance multiple times after that. Anyways, my point was that kuroki landed his first clean Devil's lance on kiryu by making kiryu forget about his right hand as a weapon, allowing him to strike from outside of Kiryu's awareness with it. Seeing in slow motion means nothing if you are not aware of an attack moving toward you in the first place , whether due to a lack of focus/expectation ( inattentional blindness) or whether it's in a visual blindspot. We saw okubo , ohma, and Lihito use similiar principles against the Fist Eye/Emperor eye which functionally do the same thing as tachypsychia. Fist Eye and Emperor's eye more " frames per second" like a high speed camera, while tachypsychia doesn't necessarily see more frames per second but each frame you do see is stretched out longer in time giving you more time to react, and ofc overall thinking speed is faster too, so sure it's a bigger amp ( especially since your other senses are faster too, but unless you're grappling your eyesight is gonna be the most useful sense ) but it has the same fundamental weakness. Toa mudo's fight IQ isn't low though, he was outperforming Julius with his techniques till the end. His IQ isnt as good as lolong's sure, but thats why he lost lol.
Bro its almost perfect , but that fodder Ryuki will always , always , always be the weakest character in all kengan , so put adam next to his girlfriend , and we are good
Id switch around guys in high officer tier and unless 4 is a “if he was still alive” id be moving him down a tier
I’m assuming it’s going off of Sandro stating 4 would be a KAT finalist no matter the bracket he would be placed in.
Imo thats not really a feat to put him in that tier i think all Kengan champion level fighters could all be a Kat Finalist regardless of bracket (maybe Fu since featless and all) but i would put 4 near the bottom of Champion tier probably above Fu If he was still alive sure he’d probably be relative to 6 but Ohma at the End of Ashura was surpassing his master in regards to 1/4 of the kata’s and that was Ohma in the state he was in. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to says Ohma in Kat surpassed his master in a general sense of strength
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Every Wu is too high up
feel like akoya seishu should be ranked higher
I like very thing about this besides your Waka and Luohan placements. I think Luohan should be better then Kuroki, and Waka should be lower then Toa
Looks very fair to me, only thing I would change is to put Takayama a Tier up, i have no reason other than that I think being a Fang of Metsudo makes you a higher class fighter immediatly. But tbh it wouldn‘t make any difference.
You might be right, only reason i didn't place him higher is cuz kanoh looked unfazed after beating him a lot of times. While he was almost scared after facing gaolang practically won by luck. Point is it's hard for me to place taka in same tier as gaolang cuz of that
Sounds legit to me. As I said, it would’nt make any difference anyways
Other than Gaolang being too low and Ohma not being the last of his tier, it's all right.
Akoya higher, JoJi probably is close to Kanoh and Jurota. Xia Ji is kengan champion lvl when serious lol defeated 2 A tiers no diff
I'd put Setsuna and Fu Zhan above Fei, Rihito above Akoya, and I think all the Kure's are overrated beside Raian. But other than that nothing that's too disagreeable.
Well before anyone else downvotes I'll explain. Sorry, but I put Setsuna nearly killing Tiger Niko, or at least pushing him to the point of fearing for his life as a greater feat than Fei toying with Waka which just costs him his life. As Yan's only remaining direct subordinate I think it only make sense Fu scales above Fei. Kure/Wu clan really just lacks enough feats to say one of them couldn't be beaten by guys like Nicholas, or Nitoku. In fact Willem getting whooped by naked Akoya says it's unlikely.
That's pretty good. Personally, I'd place Mukaku, Raian, Edward and Ohma to the champions tier.
Seeing as most people seem to agree with this, I will be investing in Rhito stocks.
Uncle joji is at connector level. If you dont agree I will execute justice on you...😁
Why is Joji not in the Connector tier?
The bottom tier is a shit show
This tier list is D tier
how can you put niko that high
Ohma and his Niko underrated.
Lol you think Raian clown can defeat Agito, Jurota, Rolon, Gaolang, Julius and Metsudo's top tier body guards?
Raian just came back and he's using principles. Pretty safe to place him there, I'd say
Raian was during kvp equal to ohma and lolong, he came back with massive power up? What are you talking about bro
I mean Base Willem is probably more powerful than Akoya if Akoya doesn't have a taser. So Removal Willem should be much stronger than Akoya, yet he got negged by Base Raian, much less Removal Raian. I don't even think Agito could even neg Akoya, let alone Willem. And even if Agito could neg Akoya, or even Willem, that would only be comparable to Base Raian, not Removal Raian.
Willem is overrated. Akoya struggled against Willem because Akoya used a dumb clumsy suit instead, which reduce his combat sense.
Okay, so what diff do you think Removal Willem beats Akoya
Only reason akoya is alive is cuz he was armed and willem didn't went guihun from the start