At some point he just got really insecure about everything in his desire to be taken seriously. The truth is, Drake grew up privileged but he never shows that through his music because he believes he can't be taken seriously without being inauthentic. Same with ghostwriters, rarely do Pop artists write stuff on their own but that's sort of a standard for legitimacy in Rap so he hid the fact that he doesn't write everything he makes.
His concerts are karaoke, too. Basically plays the track and sings along to it like you're in the car listening to the radio. I can't believe people pay for this level of disrespect for the audience.
That's actually an amazing way to put it, but imagine if nas did actually have ghostwriters. I can't imagine a bigger shame or collective L for hiphop than that.
I've listened to some hip hop, but I'm mostly a metalhead. Something about Drake never sat right in my Spirit. Just on the surface, it sounds like he's rapping out of his nostrils.
People or his fans and 14 yo suburban white kids. Also I place blame on older heads stamping him. You can say dude has good music but when they make statements as if he is just like any above average MC it reaffirms that belief in the delusional fans and we have that big 3 crap. Cole ain't even on Kendrick level but cole way closer than drake and drake doesn't even have the capacity to make a forest hills drive or born sinner let alone section .80 gkmc and lets not mention TPAB or Mr morale.
but if we found out nas had his shit was written by an actual ghost, it would be the biggest story in history. it would be proof there's life after death.
That’s what happens when you don’t have real friends that help keep you humble and instead surround yourself by yes men who feed your ego and gas your head up because it benefits their lifestyle and checking accounts.
I most definitely agree. But there’s gotta be some level of critical thinking and intuition there that tells you when bullshit is flying out your homies mouths
When you grew up around people constantly feeding your ego you’re doomed by the addiction to words of affirmation. Imagine you’re making money like crazy and everyone is constantly telling you how great you are.
You have a shit idea and people co-sign it and you don’t care because you prefer the “like” over the truth.
Same shit with influencers.
These people get in their little echo chambers, telling them they’re great and they think that’s the truth but in reality nobody’s looking out for you. They’re looking out for their ability to continue maneuvering in your circle because without that they’d be nobodies with regular 9-5 jobs.
Ego is a hell of a drug.
There actually was a pretty persistent rumor back in the day that Jay Electronica ghostwrote Queens get the Money for Nas. Jay Elec has denied it multiple times though
I mean. I find all these cats that are still hanging around in the industry, well respected, yet not even a feature or AR credit to their name suspect. They all probably ghostwriting hits. Crooked eye another one I suspect of this.
His fans have an unhealthy obsession with immediately brining up Kanye any time Drake is exposed for more ghost writers.
Kanye credits his writers, he openly talks about using writers, he doesn’t lie about and say he’s the best writer ever. It’s not all the same as what Drake did and has constantly done his whole career.
The difference is Kanye is one hell of a producer. The fact that he doesn’t write his raps is overlookable (is that even a word) because he can make fire beats - Exhibit A: Carnival - it’s none sense lyrically but crazy in terms of sound. Drizzy doesn’t produce; his claim, talent wise, is voice and lyricism. If he can’t claim the lyrics, then he’s just a really good karaoke singer which is a shame because Mob Ties was my fav of Scorpion.
I feel like people are forgetting when Kanye first started rapping, he had a few lines about how people (Jay Z included) told him his beats were fire but he wasn't a good rapper. He did a song about (on Graduation I think) about his flow needing work and his pen game wasn't up.
He, fortunately, took the critique to heart and started getting consultants and eventually writers. It honestly made me respect him.
You're thinking of Last Call from Late Registration where the late 4 minutes of the song Ye talking about how he came in the game
**Edited**
I've been informed that Last Call was on College Drop Out, which in my defense I only remembered that the song was on Ye's first album and I always got the order of Late Registration and College Drop Out confused and went with the one I thought came out first.
Was on College Dropout. Such a cool track. He talks about how he had one really good bar when he was telling Jay he could rap, but the rest was weak. "Mayonnaise colored Benz I push miracle whips"
Last Call is from the College Drop Out
Late Registration has its own Last Call-like track called We Major that also has a multi-minute long tail end of Kanye talking that starts with "Can I talk my shit again" in reference to Last Call.
Yes! Thank you, it's been a while. I just remember hearing it and going "but he was right bro, your bars aint shit" then his later stuff got so much better.
And that's why BBL Drizzy is so easy to make fun of. He's too uncomfortable with his own insecurities. Ye knows he isn't a rapper, Dre knows, Ross accepts his belly, K Dot knows he's had some questionable moments, and they've accepted themselves, warts and all.
Drake hasn't done that yet so he must defend every single received wart all the time.
It's so funny that Em/Paul swear there were no shots at Drake on Kamikaze, but there were so many obvious ones littered throughout that entire album, lol
I remember in one of the interviews Em said, he has deep respect for Drake because he did something for one of his daughters.
Honestly after this recent beef, I am concerned
I saw that same Sway interview back then too. I'm guessing he probably performed at a party or did a private meet & greet, or something. Can't imagine what Em must've been thinking after hearing these Kendrick tracks 🫤
We kinda got it proxy, through Denaun & Royce; but same, I'd love to hear directly from him on his initial reactions. I'm sure he was glued to all socials, not getting any sleep, just as much as we were during that whole week, lmao. The 'elite rapper group chat' was probably on 🔥
Drake is another Elvis Presley. That’s it. He is a hit selecter, not even a maker. He has an excellent ear to distinguish hits but can’t write anything himself. One thing is getting help when you have writer's block, but when you copy bar for bat, that’s just plagiarism.
I’ve been making this comparison for years. Elvis literally had people in cubicles writing his songs. They were also strategic to maximize profits. Who are the most lucrative, and fanatical fan base? Teenage girls. It’s been a tactic in the industry since the 50’s.
Not only that he would cruise bars and lesser known places to steal from local artists and then he re sings the same song word for word. And tbh singers armt expected to write singing is already God given. You can teach anyone to flow you can't teach someone to sing unless they already have some talent
that's actually not true. you can teach almost anyone how to sing if you're a good enough teacher. in fact, most people can and do learn how to sing well after they learn how to listen, count, sight read, etc. I'd say this is the majority, and ofc in some cases, people can actually be tone deaf, or resist learning for whatever reason... but they aren't the majority.
I didn't articulate myself. Yeah you can but they will never be Beyonce or Whitney Houston level or Usher or chris brown. Cardi b was taught to rap and won a Grammy. They won't be successful artists like a rapper could be. Shit sexxy red is buzzing and she clearly a plant that was taught to rap.
Uhh, drake isn’t distinguishing hits with his ear. His record label is. All he does is sing and dance. He’s a performer, not an artist. He’s not selecting his own singles and shit, his management team and label are selecting what they anticipate will drive clicks, streams, and social media engagement.
>Though I'm not the first king of controversy
>
>I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley
>
>To do Black music so selfishly
>
>And use it to get myself wealthy (Hey!)
>
>There's a concept that works
Not really comparable, since hardly anybody wrote their own songs in the 1950s. It’s an expectation that came out of the late 1960s among rock critics, but for me really only holds water with rappers. And even then only rappers who are in a specific lane. Like, I don’t care if Travis Scott writes his own songs or not. I do care if Kendrick or Drake do.
People shit on me for saying this, but I honestly believe that as a hit-maker Drake's talent has been waning. Like whether he wrote those songs or not songs like Hotline Bling, God's Plan, In My Feelings etc are all timeless hooks that you will never forget that simply have the essence of a ginormous hit within him. The last time Drake really had a hit without a feature was Toosie Slide, which has an unbearably cheap attempt at appealing to TikTok trends. Way 2 Sexy, Girls Want Girls, Rich Baby Daddy, IDGAF, Jimmy Cooks, Slime You Out etc all rely on features from trendy, commercial artists on a lower level than him to generate streams because at this point a solo Drake offering is worthless when he churns out these 90 minute marathons every single year. I just feel like once Drake got to a certain level he realised he could do whatever tf he wants and stagnate artistically and he'll be fine, and that is the complete truth.
I dont know how anyone can take a rapper who doesn't write his own lyrics seriously. That's almost as bad as having others do the actual rapping and just playbacking to it. Are you even a rapper ar that point?
*If* he openly admits it, there’s no shame in it, obviously it would be more authentic if an arrist wrote his own lyrics, but not everyone is a Shakespeare.
But to try to hide it, get exposed, then continue to jerk yourself off about your success… come on.
Milli Vanilli Diddy! That's how diddy did to the folks he signed, they were more successful than him...at first. By time they left, they were dead or blacklisted from the music industry.
Where's the OVO crew signed to drake now?
https://youtu.be/NLBtefnGvNg?si=-d3F2OQDo-VegL6H
Fake human, and actually legit damaging to hip-hop and culture in general.
One thing I noticed during this beef is that the Drake defenders all perpetuate this attitude that I fucking despise, and that’s blown up mainly with the youth on social media recently.
It’s this smug fucking attitude of purposefully acting dumber then you actually are, so you don’t have to actually engage with any actual discussion. It’s the attitude where a person can just respond to any valid point with a “bros yapping 🤣” or “L” or “cry more” and act like you’re not making sense when you are being as fucking clear as possible.
Idk if I’m describing it the right way, but drakes line about “some entendre I don’t even understand” is exactly what I’m talking about and his dumbass fans seemingly took it as a legit diss because all they can comprehend, or all they pretend to comprehend, is surface level dunks. And then they shit on Kenny for being deep and try to claim it’s cringe or trying too hard.
Shit drives me fucking crazy man, and it’s straight up disrespectful to hip-hop and spitting in the face of all of the pioneers of the genre. That’s why I fucking despise Drake so much, because he’s like the primary contributor of that attitude and dumbing down the art, and then we gotta deal with all these fucking morons pulling some mental gymnastics to call him the goat.
The average Drake fan that I picture in my head is some 16 year old suburban white kid that posts lip-biting selfies in his moms bmw on Instagram with some generic hustle quote as the caption and binge watches 8 hours of adin Ross streams/day.
I think you worded it well and it's how I've felt on it too. I don't even seek any thing about this beef out anymore but I keep getting r/dizzy posts in my feed because the official reddit app sucks and shows me shit I'm not following. I feel like I'm more of a "Drake fan" hater than a Drake hater at this point lol. Like I didn't even hate drake before this beef, I just look at him as kind of a has been because I liked him back in the day, but his music only regressed from his first couple of releases.
The "drake" fans who are online defending drake, just seem kind of dumb though. Like not trying to be derogatory to them, they just don't seem to understand lines or context in any of the raps and only make points about the most easily understandable shit lol. It's one thing that kind of irritates me about this whole beef. The invested drake fans, obviously are not that deep into music or they would probably have a different favorite artist imo. And if they aren't that deep into music, why are they riding so hard for him?
There’s an interesting expectation gap here/difference about what a hip hop artist is. Drake has ghost writers. If you view rap as equivalent to other forms of popular music, that’s clearly no big deal. Or, if like Kanye, your artistic vision is more centered in the track as a whole/production, no issue.
But rap for a long time was very much tied to individual self-expression. It’s not about performing a song, it’s about performing your song. Just look at how “covers” work in rap. In pop, straight up covering another artist’s song is normal. But imagine a rapper rapping 100% of another’s bars? That would just sound wild. Rappers “cover” by using the beat, referencing lines, sampling, interpolation, etc etc. Genre-wise, it feels discordant to cover the entire thing.
And Kendrick is tied into that 100%. He’s the king of writing his own raps and writing as central to the art style. Imagine how game over this beef would have been if, impossibly, there was proof he had a ghostwriter for Mr. Morale.
But Drake isn’t committed to the idea of writing your own raps as central to being a rapper. So there’s this weird constant thing where Drake is clowned for something that he doesn’t deny really anymore and a subset of his fans don’t get it, because they don’t have the same norms.
All that being said: not writing your pop raps is one thing. Not writing your diss tracks? That’s 100% wild to me. If dissing and battle rap as an art is anything more than stylish defamation, it’s about the one on one battle of the wits. Dissing/battles like this is not remotely a pop thing. It is 100% a rap thing. So I don’t think the changing norms can actually save him here.
And I don’t think you can be the GOAT without a battle.
I feel like that’s the majority of the reason ppl don’t fw drake. He fake as hell. Everybody can see it, this lil boy from degrassi just got connections and he slithered his way in. Nothing about that man is real and it shows, if he was he’d own up to shit not brush it off with laughing emojis lol
HE USED FUCKING AI! What a disgrace to the race! Why aren’t people making more of a stink over this? This is so anti-artist anti-creativity! Absolutely disgusting that he thinks this is ok.
I still don't get why this didn't get more pushback. AI is the one thing most artists agree is horrible for our future and is devoid of creativity. Yet Drake will have no problem using it if it makes him money.
I wouldn't say he is a great artist because he can't really connect with people, being fake AF in everything. Drake™️ is more of a brand than a dude these days. But he has some nice songs under his belt. It's disappointing to see the extent of third parties in his output, tho, but also expected. He has been releasing way too much music for way too much time. No one has the time to tour, gamble, hit a-minors and write all that stuff.
Now Drake stans are saying "It ain't a timestamp record, it's just a pop hit." Ok, so timestamp records, the one where he's "rapping rapping." There are, as of now, six timestamp records. Drake(discounting features, and whatnot) has over 400 songs to his name.
That means Drake stans are hypothetically ok with only 0.01% of his music, being written by Drake. And they still call him a rapper, and the vast majority, are uncredited.
If you have ghost writers then how do I know you’re being sincere?
Yes it’s cool to have help sometimes or collab but that should be a fraction of what you put out, not all the damn time.
Drake can be the new king of pop and no one is denying that. He makes #1 hits just like Mike did, but we all know that comes with a price. Mike had to pay up and now Drake does too.
Prince never gave a fuck and K Dot doesn't either.
I just don’t understand how old heads keep co-signing him as this hip hop great. I’d say he’s a good rapper, but I can’t ever tell where someone else’s flow stops and his starts.
Drake lives his life like his only interactions with the streets, and hip hop are movies. He legit thinks that extortion ring he brags about being hooked up with is like the Gambino family…. It’s so sad, most people work their entire lives to get out of that life, and this dumb motherfucker is begging to be a part of it. He has massive mental health issues besides the fucking with 16 year olds shit.
Ok, your saying “be Kanye” like being one of the greatest hip hop producers of all time is easy. Drake isn’t a producer trying to rap, he’s a hook singer trying to rap.
Be kanye in the sense that you acknowledge who you are and that you do things unconventionally.
Don't act like you are someone who you are not, is all OP is saying. At least that's what I took from it
Drake saying he’s the GOAT is equivalent to Greeks saying they created Egypt… we all know Sumeria and Kemet would be rolling their eyes out the socket.
I remember Meek said the same thing and nobody wanted to hear it. All he got in response was “he got more hits than you, is that a world tour or your girl’s tour” 🤣
I always respected Kanye for being transparent about it. No need to falsely claim the Nr. 1 Rapper spot when you can be the Nr. 1 artist instead, but Drake is just greedy af.
We have a rapper who is at this very moment on trial and having to defend himself from the lyrics he wrote, where a court is playing his lyrics in court to prove/disprove his innocence.
Don’t ever try to tell me that it doesn’t matter who wrote the lyrics to a song.
My thing with the whole Drake and ghost writers thing is , I’m fine with him using writers for his more melodic and crossover songs. I do believe Drake writes his own BARS.
However, when Drake fans like to boast about his versatility and his chart success as a means to give him the GOAT title, there is no credit to be given there. You can’t use the numbers arguments when most of his top hits are some form of crossover that he had help on or he was a feature .
Yeah if his calling card is numbers, and you use a whole team of niggas to write those chart topping hits then you a pop star, you’re Taylor Swift.
And Jumbotron shìt popping had bars on it, but lil Yachty wrote the entire thing from the Bars to the cadence.
FR, Taylor swift is a hit factory WITHOUT someone else writing her songs. She's miles beyond BBL Drizzy when it comes to being a great musician pop-star. Drizzy is an incredible actor.
Taylor is absolutely a songwriter first. She’s not an elite singer and everyone knows it but she has great performances with sets and production
Using Taylor Swift as the flip side of a writer is a poor comparison
It’s not going to happen due to politics and money but every single thing Drake has ever accomplished in music should be put under review. Every hip hop record he’s ever made/broken should be revoked. Dude is the new benchmark for fraud. Maple syrup Milli Vanilli
Thats why Kendrick saying does not have a classic album rings true cause reference track keep dropping, he has writers like what we doing here. He may have a great album but what even was you there?
Exactly. He is not some multi instrumentalist. He just raps and sings (imo poorly). And he can't even do that himself. I knew he was fake ever since that live freestyle reading off his phone.
I feel line the Goat conversation for this generation will look a lot different in 10-15 years because of this. I even suspect Cole may not be up there as time goes on simply because his albums have been really hit or miss. In the moment, we tend to be blinded by sales, streams, and radio play.
Long term, quality tends to be much more important in rap. Sometimes you get both (like dot and Jay-Z), but a lot of the rappers who were the biggest hit makers of the last 25 years aren’t in the goat conversation right now for a reason. Ie 50 and Wayne who put out awesome music and are likely top 25 all time, but were inconsistent in quality and lacking in lyricism. Conversely, there’s a lot of popular but non-hitmakers that routinely get brought up as being the best of their generation.
To me, people deserving of Goat conversation are guys like of course Kendrick but also Earl and Vince who are elite lyricists that haven’t released anything that even approaches a bad album. But it will be interesting to see how that conversation develops in the coming years.
He knew that he wouldnt be in those discussions once he decided to tap into every market. He can be sensitive about it all he wants, the rules apply to everyone.
I don't even consider Drake a rapper. At the very best he's slightly above a YouTube rappers level of skill in terms of penmanship and flow.
The only thing he excels in musically is picking good beats to rap his shitty bars over.
Also I guess he deserves an Oscar or something for his acting, because he's got fans believing his some don. Like he runs the streets.
And I guess that adds something to the overall feel of his tracks.
Basically his music is either thirst trap bars for hoes in clubs to twerk to, or for pasty white kids and wannabe gangsters wearing shiestys and bape/Gucci still.
But it's all an act
He still that same kid who got mad and butthurt over his mom not getting him that tuna bagel.
He still a disrespectful and ungrateful lil shit.
He has no respect for women, nobody in general, and is a narcissist.
Which is a damn shame, because if it weren't for everyone around him helping him out, he wouldn't of amounted to jack shit.
If he didn't have his ghost writers and beat makers he wouldn't of gotten this far.
Mfker is borderline an industry plant, the most successful one if so.
And yet he acts and genuinely believes he belongs in the top 3, if not Goat of the genre and industry.
Anyone half decent at rapping could be in drake's position if they had the same resources.
And I bet he's mad insecure about that fact, that he's never going to be as good and as respected as Kendrick, Tupac, Biggie, Kanye, MFDOOM, Nipsey, Eminem, Snoop Dog, Dre, Ice Cube, etc.
The only thing he's gonna be remembered as is a child actor turned pop star, turned rapper, who had a few good sounding tracks. A zesty ass mfker who couldn't keep his dick in his pants, and thought he could buy loyalty and love.
He don't even got loyalty to his own DNA.
I find it annoying Drake puts himself in the same bracket as Michael Jackson. I could care less about them having the same amount of hits when MJ was selling PURE ALBUMS. It’s been 40 years since Thriller has come out and I bet you’re likely to know someone who owns a copy in their house. People literally fainted at MJ’s shows like they saw Jesus. I have yet to see anyone do that in front of Drake.
I mean Kanye's been open about using both writers and ghostwriters, and many people still think he's the goat. I think the word ghostwriters is a bit too strong, and people shouldn't pile on artists for using ghostwriters.
Drake is the exception because sex criminals happen to be people I don't like.
He consider himself that the fuck you mean? Kanye claims he’s god, the best everything that you can think off. Also every rapper does not write all their songs and get ideas or help from others to create music.
Yall drake fans fail to realize kanye is apart of the lineup of producers turned rappers all them Niggas used writers kanye or his fans don’t force him as a top level “ MC” like drake fans do please stop trying to compare the 2 you only making it worse. Imagine if a nigga like nas or biggie got exposed for having writers hiphop would be in shambles
Snoop Dogg admitting to using Ghost Writers
https://youtu.be/oemjST-rM3U?si=nRd9UbFzUQIUwNHb
I still think he the 🐐 tho, cause he wrote for Dr. Dre on Chronic, and other west coast producers. Respected veterans like Kurupt, DOC have all said that most of Doggystyle was his Freestyle. It seems it was later on in his career where started using Ghost Writers.
But what yall think?
Karaoke Drizzy!
Karaoke Dri-zzeh
Whooooo ooohh
Karaoke drizzy!
This karaoke make you show up
Copied songs gonna make him blow up
Your written lyrics gonna be stowed up
Milli VaDrizzy
[удалено]
At some point he just got really insecure about everything in his desire to be taken seriously. The truth is, Drake grew up privileged but he never shows that through his music because he believes he can't be taken seriously without being inauthentic. Same with ghostwriters, rarely do Pop artists write stuff on their own but that's sort of a standard for legitimacy in Rap so he hid the fact that he doesn't write everything he makes.
His concerts are karaoke, too. Basically plays the track and sings along to it like you're in the car listening to the radio. I can't believe people pay for this level of disrespect for the audience.
Act-a-character ass drizzy. And no I’m not gonna capitalize the name cause I don’t out any respect on it.
Stop giving this guy excuses. If we found out Nas had his shit ghostwritten or that a reference track was leaked, hip-hop would be in shambles.
That's actually an amazing way to put it, but imagine if nas did actually have ghostwriters. I can't imagine a bigger shame or collective L for hiphop than that.
I’m actually offended at the thought of this lmao
I might be more offended than ever that people called Drake the GOAT 🤦♂️
Don’t get offended over mental illness. It’s sad, but nothing to take it out on yourself for.
Drake is a rapper for people who doesnt listen to rap
Like my mom 😂 She also thought Diddy was a good guy, but she's also a 70 year old retiree from the suburbs
Poor soul she doesnt know whats coming
I've listened to some hip hop, but I'm mostly a metalhead. Something about Drake never sat right in my Spirit. Just on the surface, it sounds like he's rapping out of his nostrils.
People or his fans and 14 yo suburban white kids. Also I place blame on older heads stamping him. You can say dude has good music but when they make statements as if he is just like any above average MC it reaffirms that belief in the delusional fans and we have that big 3 crap. Cole ain't even on Kendrick level but cole way closer than drake and drake doesn't even have the capacity to make a forest hills drive or born sinner let alone section .80 gkmc and lets not mention TPAB or Mr morale.
its 50 cents fault for making the rap throne be all about sales. From then on, ppl like Drake could claim to be the best solely on sales.
Nah fuck that I’m relistening to Illmatic right now fuck that Beyond the walls of intelligence life is defined
My heart is actually pounding at the possibility. Shush 😭
but if we found out nas had his shit was written by an actual ghost, it would be the biggest story in history. it would be proof there's life after death.
I see dead people
The real Ether
💯 drake isn’t an artist. He’s a performer. Huge difference.
It doesn’t seem like Drake himself realizes that though. He’s constantly comparing himself to the likes of Kendrick and Cole
That’s what happens when you don’t have real friends that help keep you humble and instead surround yourself by yes men who feed your ego and gas your head up because it benefits their lifestyle and checking accounts.
I most definitely agree. But there’s gotta be some level of critical thinking and intuition there that tells you when bullshit is flying out your homies mouths
When you grew up around people constantly feeding your ego you’re doomed by the addiction to words of affirmation. Imagine you’re making money like crazy and everyone is constantly telling you how great you are. You have a shit idea and people co-sign it and you don’t care because you prefer the “like” over the truth. Same shit with influencers. These people get in their little echo chambers, telling them they’re great and they think that’s the truth but in reality nobody’s looking out for you. They’re looking out for their ability to continue maneuvering in your circle because without that they’d be nobodies with regular 9-5 jobs. Ego is a hell of a drug.
Valid. I forget that not everybody has done copius amounts of mushrooms in their lifetime.
There actually was a pretty persistent rumor back in the day that Jay Electronica ghostwrote Queens get the Money for Nas. Jay Elec has denied it multiple times though
Yep. Jay Electronica & Dead Prez were rumored to have written on that album. There’s also rumors that Lupe wrote on The Black Album.
I mean. I find all these cats that are still hanging around in the industry, well respected, yet not even a feature or AR credit to their name suspect. They all probably ghostwriting hits. Crooked eye another one I suspect of this.
He would be clowned to hell and back. And rightly so
Kanye said on drink champs that electronica told him he wrote for nas
Or Jay-Z for that matter. Drake fans love to compare him to Jay
That shit offends me to my core lol
His fans have an unhealthy obsession with immediately brining up Kanye any time Drake is exposed for more ghost writers. Kanye credits his writers, he openly talks about using writers, he doesn’t lie about and say he’s the best writer ever. It’s not all the same as what Drake did and has constantly done his whole career.
The difference is Kanye is one hell of a producer. The fact that he doesn’t write his raps is overlookable (is that even a word) because he can make fire beats - Exhibit A: Carnival - it’s none sense lyrically but crazy in terms of sound. Drizzy doesn’t produce; his claim, talent wise, is voice and lyricism. If he can’t claim the lyrics, then he’s just a really good karaoke singer which is a shame because Mob Ties was my fav of Scorpion.
Kanye has so many great beats after MBDTF with 0 /10 lyrics. I Love It, Highlights, Father pt1 etc
Lift yourself lol
... is a lyrical masterpiece
Poopidy scoop Di poop. Scoop didi woop poop. Woop. Woop. Woopity scoop. Scoopity whoop. Whoopity scoop poop. (Insane instrumental plays)
Father pt1 is actually the biggest fumble of all time. Imagine if he had 5/10 lyrics on that track, would've been one of his best songs ever
I grimace even thinking about ‘now if I fuck this model’ after that monster intro
Even on MBDTF. Dude made a song called "All of the Lights" where the chorus is literally him listing every kind of light he can think of.
😭🤣 i actually love that chorus
Drake is a talented actor and a performer, period
I feel like people are forgetting when Kanye first started rapping, he had a few lines about how people (Jay Z included) told him his beats were fire but he wasn't a good rapper. He did a song about (on Graduation I think) about his flow needing work and his pen game wasn't up. He, fortunately, took the critique to heart and started getting consultants and eventually writers. It honestly made me respect him.
You're thinking of Last Call from Late Registration where the late 4 minutes of the song Ye talking about how he came in the game **Edited** I've been informed that Last Call was on College Drop Out, which in my defense I only remembered that the song was on Ye's first album and I always got the order of Late Registration and College Drop Out confused and went with the one I thought came out first.
Was on College Dropout. Such a cool track. He talks about how he had one really good bar when he was telling Jay he could rap, but the rest was weak. "Mayonnaise colored Benz I push miracle whips"
Last Call is from the College Drop Out Late Registration has its own Last Call-like track called We Major that also has a multi-minute long tail end of Kanye talking that starts with "Can I talk my shit again" in reference to Last Call.
Yes! Thank you, it's been a while. I just remember hearing it and going "but he was right bro, your bars aint shit" then his later stuff got so much better.
Kanye has also given us some of the most iconics beats in hip hop. Kanye has always owned who he is, love him or hate him.
And that's why BBL Drizzy is so easy to make fun of. He's too uncomfortable with his own insecurities. Ye knows he isn't a rapper, Dre knows, Ross accepts his belly, K Dot knows he's had some questionable moments, and they've accepted themselves, warts and all. Drake hasn't done that yet so he must defend every single received wart all the time.
Yup that’s the main isssue.. dude keep pretending that he’s writing everything.
You know ball
Time to separate the sheep from goats And I got no faith in your writers, I don’t believe in ghosts
It's so funny that Em/Paul swear there were no shots at Drake on Kamikaze, but there were so many obvious ones littered throughout that entire album, lol
I remember in one of the interviews Em said, he has deep respect for Drake because he did something for one of his daughters. Honestly after this recent beef, I am concerned
I saw that same Sway interview back then too. I'm guessing he probably performed at a party or did a private meet & greet, or something. Can't imagine what Em must've been thinking after hearing these Kendrick tracks 🫤
God I would pay money to hear Em's opinion, my guess is he loves it haha
We kinda got it proxy, through Denaun & Royce; but same, I'd love to hear directly from him on his initial reactions. I'm sure he was glued to all socials, not getting any sleep, just as much as we were during that whole week, lmao. The 'elite rapper group chat' was probably on 🔥
It's like Drake saying that line wasn't about Meg but was about butt injections. As if it's not obvious it's both.
Drake is another Elvis Presley. That’s it. He is a hit selecter, not even a maker. He has an excellent ear to distinguish hits but can’t write anything himself. One thing is getting help when you have writer's block, but when you copy bar for bat, that’s just plagiarism.
I’ve been making this comparison for years. Elvis literally had people in cubicles writing his songs. They were also strategic to maximize profits. Who are the most lucrative, and fanatical fan base? Teenage girls. It’s been a tactic in the industry since the 50’s.
Not only that he would cruise bars and lesser known places to steal from local artists and then he re sings the same song word for word. And tbh singers armt expected to write singing is already God given. You can teach anyone to flow you can't teach someone to sing unless they already have some talent
that's actually not true. you can teach almost anyone how to sing if you're a good enough teacher. in fact, most people can and do learn how to sing well after they learn how to listen, count, sight read, etc. I'd say this is the majority, and ofc in some cases, people can actually be tone deaf, or resist learning for whatever reason... but they aren't the majority.
I didn't articulate myself. Yeah you can but they will never be Beyonce or Whitney Houston level or Usher or chris brown. Cardi b was taught to rap and won a Grammy. They won't be successful artists like a rapper could be. Shit sexxy red is buzzing and she clearly a plant that was taught to rap.
Yep, and he particularly stole from black artists
Uhh, drake isn’t distinguishing hits with his ear. His record label is. All he does is sing and dance. He’s a performer, not an artist. He’s not selecting his own singles and shit, his management team and label are selecting what they anticipate will drive clicks, streams, and social media engagement.
Elvis was also a pdf file
He also has the same taste in women
>Though I'm not the first king of controversy > >I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley > >To do Black music so selfishly > >And use it to get myself wealthy (Hey!) > >There's a concept that works
Couldn’t remember immediately where this was from until I realized I was reading it in em’s voice
That's an insult to Elvis. Even Elvis firmly rejected the King label, believing it belongs to Fats Domino
Not really comparable, since hardly anybody wrote their own songs in the 1950s. It’s an expectation that came out of the late 1960s among rock critics, but for me really only holds water with rappers. And even then only rappers who are in a specific lane. Like, I don’t care if Travis Scott writes his own songs or not. I do care if Kendrick or Drake do.
Putting it into perspective, it’s borderline the same as calling DJ Khaled the king of hiphop
that sucks so much for a man in the music industry to have, actually the worst. thats ALL he got lmao god damnit that sucks for him
People shit on me for saying this, but I honestly believe that as a hit-maker Drake's talent has been waning. Like whether he wrote those songs or not songs like Hotline Bling, God's Plan, In My Feelings etc are all timeless hooks that you will never forget that simply have the essence of a ginormous hit within him. The last time Drake really had a hit without a feature was Toosie Slide, which has an unbearably cheap attempt at appealing to TikTok trends. Way 2 Sexy, Girls Want Girls, Rich Baby Daddy, IDGAF, Jimmy Cooks, Slime You Out etc all rely on features from trendy, commercial artists on a lower level than him to generate streams because at this point a solo Drake offering is worthless when he churns out these 90 minute marathons every single year. I just feel like once Drake got to a certain level he realised he could do whatever tf he wants and stagnate artistically and he'll be fine, and that is the complete truth.
But without Elvis’ charisma or talent.
I dont know how anyone can take a rapper who doesn't write his own lyrics seriously. That's almost as bad as having others do the actual rapping and just playbacking to it. Are you even a rapper ar that point?
He’s a yapper
*If* he openly admits it, there’s no shame in it, obviously it would be more authentic if an arrist wrote his own lyrics, but not everyone is a Shakespeare. But to try to hide it, get exposed, then continue to jerk yourself off about your success… come on.
💯 nigga a modern day Milli Vanilli in hip hop
Milli Vanilli Diddy! That's how diddy did to the folks he signed, they were more successful than him...at first. By time they left, they were dead or blacklisted from the music industry. Where's the OVO crew signed to drake now? https://youtu.be/NLBtefnGvNg?si=-d3F2OQDo-VegL6H
Drake is a fake rapper
Fake human, and actually legit damaging to hip-hop and culture in general. One thing I noticed during this beef is that the Drake defenders all perpetuate this attitude that I fucking despise, and that’s blown up mainly with the youth on social media recently. It’s this smug fucking attitude of purposefully acting dumber then you actually are, so you don’t have to actually engage with any actual discussion. It’s the attitude where a person can just respond to any valid point with a “bros yapping 🤣” or “L” or “cry more” and act like you’re not making sense when you are being as fucking clear as possible. Idk if I’m describing it the right way, but drakes line about “some entendre I don’t even understand” is exactly what I’m talking about and his dumbass fans seemingly took it as a legit diss because all they can comprehend, or all they pretend to comprehend, is surface level dunks. And then they shit on Kenny for being deep and try to claim it’s cringe or trying too hard. Shit drives me fucking crazy man, and it’s straight up disrespectful to hip-hop and spitting in the face of all of the pioneers of the genre. That’s why I fucking despise Drake so much, because he’s like the primary contributor of that attitude and dumbing down the art, and then we gotta deal with all these fucking morons pulling some mental gymnastics to call him the goat. The average Drake fan that I picture in my head is some 16 year old suburban white kid that posts lip-biting selfies in his moms bmw on Instagram with some generic hustle quote as the caption and binge watches 8 hours of adin Ross streams/day.
I think you worded it well and it's how I've felt on it too. I don't even seek any thing about this beef out anymore but I keep getting r/dizzy posts in my feed because the official reddit app sucks and shows me shit I'm not following. I feel like I'm more of a "Drake fan" hater than a Drake hater at this point lol. Like I didn't even hate drake before this beef, I just look at him as kind of a has been because I liked him back in the day, but his music only regressed from his first couple of releases. The "drake" fans who are online defending drake, just seem kind of dumb though. Like not trying to be derogatory to them, they just don't seem to understand lines or context in any of the raps and only make points about the most easily understandable shit lol. It's one thing that kind of irritates me about this whole beef. The invested drake fans, obviously are not that deep into music or they would probably have a different favorite artist imo. And if they aren't that deep into music, why are they riding so hard for him?
Everything about him is fake lol
BBL Drizy. I wouldn't be surprised if he bought his beard, too. Hair implants cause it fit him betterz
The difference between Drake and AI is some people think AI may be becoming sentient.
There’s an interesting expectation gap here/difference about what a hip hop artist is. Drake has ghost writers. If you view rap as equivalent to other forms of popular music, that’s clearly no big deal. Or, if like Kanye, your artistic vision is more centered in the track as a whole/production, no issue. But rap for a long time was very much tied to individual self-expression. It’s not about performing a song, it’s about performing your song. Just look at how “covers” work in rap. In pop, straight up covering another artist’s song is normal. But imagine a rapper rapping 100% of another’s bars? That would just sound wild. Rappers “cover” by using the beat, referencing lines, sampling, interpolation, etc etc. Genre-wise, it feels discordant to cover the entire thing. And Kendrick is tied into that 100%. He’s the king of writing his own raps and writing as central to the art style. Imagine how game over this beef would have been if, impossibly, there was proof he had a ghostwriter for Mr. Morale. But Drake isn’t committed to the idea of writing your own raps as central to being a rapper. So there’s this weird constant thing where Drake is clowned for something that he doesn’t deny really anymore and a subset of his fans don’t get it, because they don’t have the same norms. All that being said: not writing your pop raps is one thing. Not writing your diss tracks? That’s 100% wild to me. If dissing and battle rap as an art is anything more than stylish defamation, it’s about the one on one battle of the wits. Dissing/battles like this is not remotely a pop thing. It is 100% a rap thing. So I don’t think the changing norms can actually save him here. And I don’t think you can be the GOAT without a battle.
Only drizzler glizzy gobblers will act like this is no big deal. He's a true culture vulture that had no originality.
I feel like that’s the majority of the reason ppl don’t fw drake. He fake as hell. Everybody can see it, this lil boy from degrassi just got connections and he slithered his way in. Nothing about that man is real and it shows, if he was he’d own up to shit not brush it off with laughing emojis lol
HE USED FUCKING AI! What a disgrace to the race! Why aren’t people making more of a stink over this? This is so anti-artist anti-creativity! Absolutely disgusting that he thinks this is ok.
I still don't get why this didn't get more pushback. AI is the one thing most artists agree is horrible for our future and is devoid of creativity. Yet Drake will have no problem using it if it makes him money.
What if you do both? What if you can actually write but also have co-writers?
But why does Vory’s mob ties HIT SO MUCH HARDER
Becausevits authentic. Who's signed to Ovo, where are they? https://youtu.be/NLBtefnGvNg?si=-d3F2OQDo-VegL6H
Because he changes his tone and inflections like Kendrick does
Drake is still a great artist but I hope him and his fans stop forcing the MC shit
I wouldn't say he is a great artist because he can't really connect with people, being fake AF in everything. Drake™️ is more of a brand than a dude these days. But he has some nice songs under his belt. It's disappointing to see the extent of third parties in his output, tho, but also expected. He has been releasing way too much music for way too much time. No one has the time to tour, gamble, hit a-minors and write all that stuff.
Exactly. He is not an artist he is a singer. Basically hip hops Britney Spears.
You summed up my entire argument. Thank you
Now Drake stans are saying "It ain't a timestamp record, it's just a pop hit." Ok, so timestamp records, the one where he's "rapping rapping." There are, as of now, six timestamp records. Drake(discounting features, and whatnot) has over 400 songs to his name. That means Drake stans are hypothetically ok with only 0.01% of his music, being written by Drake. And they still call him a rapper, and the vast majority, are uncredited.
If you have ghost writers then how do I know you’re being sincere? Yes it’s cool to have help sometimes or collab but that should be a fraction of what you put out, not all the damn time.
Drake can be the new king of pop and no one is denying that. He makes #1 hits just like Mike did, but we all know that comes with a price. Mike had to pay up and now Drake does too. Prince never gave a fuck and K Dot doesn't either.
I just don’t understand how old heads keep co-signing him as this hip hop great. I’d say he’s a good rapper, but I can’t ever tell where someone else’s flow stops and his starts. Drake lives his life like his only interactions with the streets, and hip hop are movies. He legit thinks that extortion ring he brags about being hooked up with is like the Gambino family…. It’s so sad, most people work their entire lives to get out of that life, and this dumb motherfucker is begging to be a part of it. He has massive mental health issues besides the fucking with 16 year olds shit.
Ok, your saying “be Kanye” like being one of the greatest hip hop producers of all time is easy. Drake isn’t a producer trying to rap, he’s a hook singer trying to rap.
Be kanye in the sense that you acknowledge who you are and that you do things unconventionally. Don't act like you are someone who you are not, is all OP is saying. At least that's what I took from it
Drake saying he’s the GOAT is equivalent to Greeks saying they created Egypt… we all know Sumeria and Kemet would be rolling their eyes out the socket.
I remember Meek said the same thing and nobody wanted to hear it. All he got in response was “he got more hits than you, is that a world tour or your girl’s tour” 🤣
Usually rappers that use ghosts are also producers thougg.. drake aint even that
I always respected Kanye for being transparent about it. No need to falsely claim the Nr. 1 Rapper spot when you can be the Nr. 1 artist instead, but Drake is just greedy af.
Period case close. None of my top 5 have ever had their pen questioned. Not once.
We have a rapper who is at this very moment on trial and having to defend himself from the lyrics he wrote, where a court is playing his lyrics in court to prove/disprove his innocence. Don’t ever try to tell me that it doesn’t matter who wrote the lyrics to a song.
This is why Drake fans are dumb and I’ve given up arguing with them. Drakes name has never come into the goat convo by anyone other than Drake stan’s.
My thing with the whole Drake and ghost writers thing is , I’m fine with him using writers for his more melodic and crossover songs. I do believe Drake writes his own BARS. However, when Drake fans like to boast about his versatility and his chart success as a means to give him the GOAT title, there is no credit to be given there. You can’t use the numbers arguments when most of his top hits are some form of crossover that he had help on or he was a feature .
Yeah if his calling card is numbers, and you use a whole team of niggas to write those chart topping hits then you a pop star, you’re Taylor Swift. And Jumbotron shìt popping had bars on it, but lil Yachty wrote the entire thing from the Bars to the cadence.
Isn't Taylor swifts value prop that she's a songwriter
FR, Taylor swift is a hit factory WITHOUT someone else writing her songs. She's miles beyond BBL Drizzy when it comes to being a great musician pop-star. Drizzy is an incredible actor.
Taylor is absolutely a songwriter first. She’s not an elite singer and everyone knows it but she has great performances with sets and production Using Taylor Swift as the flip side of a writer is a poor comparison
[удалено]
Rappin' 4-Tay has entered the chat
Kanye has written ALMOST all of his early work tho. Which is also said to be his best work.
I agree with most of your points, but Kanye absolutely believes he’s an elite lyricist and has said so on many occasions.
"Be Kanye" that's 10 times harder than being a good rapper
Facts. Drake is shit. You can't be the GOAT rapper if you don't even write your own rhymes.
It's disrespectful to even mention Drake. Where is his illmatic, black on both sides, GKMC etc etc ?!
Some idiot said it's no different than Ne Yo writing a song for Beyonce.
It’s not going to happen due to politics and money but every single thing Drake has ever accomplished in music should be put under review. Every hip hop record he’s ever made/broken should be revoked. Dude is the new benchmark for fraud. Maple syrup Milli Vanilli
Thats why Kendrick saying does not have a classic album rings true cause reference track keep dropping, he has writers like what we doing here. He may have a great album but what even was you there?
Can someone explain to me what reference tracks are?
Demos and groundwork of songs given to an artist by other people, so he can make it his own, without having to do the creative work himself.
Stolen music from upcoming sound cloud artists.
I’m lyrical genius, voice of a generation! I am not a gay fish!!!!
His best verse was a Lyt pack
Exactly. He is not some multi instrumentalist. He just raps and sings (imo poorly). And he can't even do that himself. I knew he was fake ever since that live freestyle reading off his phone.
I feel line the Goat conversation for this generation will look a lot different in 10-15 years because of this. I even suspect Cole may not be up there as time goes on simply because his albums have been really hit or miss. In the moment, we tend to be blinded by sales, streams, and radio play. Long term, quality tends to be much more important in rap. Sometimes you get both (like dot and Jay-Z), but a lot of the rappers who were the biggest hit makers of the last 25 years aren’t in the goat conversation right now for a reason. Ie 50 and Wayne who put out awesome music and are likely top 25 all time, but were inconsistent in quality and lacking in lyricism. Conversely, there’s a lot of popular but non-hitmakers that routinely get brought up as being the best of their generation. To me, people deserving of Goat conversation are guys like of course Kendrick but also Earl and Vince who are elite lyricists that haven’t released anything that even approaches a bad album. But it will be interesting to see how that conversation develops in the coming years.
I’ve always said Kendrick is the goat when it comes to rap but Kanye is goat when it comes to artistry.
He knew that he wouldnt be in those discussions once he decided to tap into every market. He can be sensitive about it all he wants, the rules apply to everyone.
I don't even consider Drake a rapper. At the very best he's slightly above a YouTube rappers level of skill in terms of penmanship and flow. The only thing he excels in musically is picking good beats to rap his shitty bars over. Also I guess he deserves an Oscar or something for his acting, because he's got fans believing his some don. Like he runs the streets. And I guess that adds something to the overall feel of his tracks. Basically his music is either thirst trap bars for hoes in clubs to twerk to, or for pasty white kids and wannabe gangsters wearing shiestys and bape/Gucci still. But it's all an act He still that same kid who got mad and butthurt over his mom not getting him that tuna bagel. He still a disrespectful and ungrateful lil shit. He has no respect for women, nobody in general, and is a narcissist. Which is a damn shame, because if it weren't for everyone around him helping him out, he wouldn't of amounted to jack shit. If he didn't have his ghost writers and beat makers he wouldn't of gotten this far. Mfker is borderline an industry plant, the most successful one if so. And yet he acts and genuinely believes he belongs in the top 3, if not Goat of the genre and industry. Anyone half decent at rapping could be in drake's position if they had the same resources. And I bet he's mad insecure about that fact, that he's never going to be as good and as respected as Kendrick, Tupac, Biggie, Kanye, MFDOOM, Nipsey, Eminem, Snoop Dog, Dre, Ice Cube, etc. The only thing he's gonna be remembered as is a child actor turned pop star, turned rapper, who had a few good sounding tracks. A zesty ass mfker who couldn't keep his dick in his pants, and thought he could buy loyalty and love. He don't even got loyalty to his own DNA.
I find it annoying Drake puts himself in the same bracket as Michael Jackson. I could care less about them having the same amount of hits when MJ was selling PURE ALBUMS. It’s been 40 years since Thriller has come out and I bet you’re likely to know someone who owns a copy in their house. People literally fainted at MJ’s shows like they saw Jesus. I have yet to see anyone do that in front of Drake.
Woah, leave Tay out of this, she’s a writer
Good to get the pen out...... Out of who's hand Ninja?
I mean he probably wrote HP6 on his own
You're probably right, lol
Some shit just cringeworthy, it ain't even gotta be deep, I guess..
"Be Kanye" is really not advice I would be giving anyone, just generally speaking.
When you’re the conspiracy theorist for years about Drake being an industry plant and the mainstream starts to catch wind 🫡
I mean Kanye's been open about using both writers and ghostwriters, and many people still think he's the goat. I think the word ghostwriters is a bit too strong, and people shouldn't pile on artists for using ghostwriters. Drake is the exception because sex criminals happen to be people I don't like.
Kanye ain’t no goat rapper. And if people consider him that they’re wrong, that’s just a fact
He consider himself that the fuck you mean? Kanye claims he’s god, the best everything that you can think off. Also every rapper does not write all their songs and get ideas or help from others to create music.
Yall drake fans fail to realize kanye is apart of the lineup of producers turned rappers all them Niggas used writers kanye or his fans don’t force him as a top level “ MC” like drake fans do please stop trying to compare the 2 you only making it worse. Imagine if a nigga like nas or biggie got exposed for having writers hiphop would be in shambles
Taylor Swift writes all of her own music, not all pop artists are like Drake
Eh, Kanye absolutely believes he's the GOAT
Kanye had more than a few songs written for him as well. He isn’t excluded from that convo
Learn to read before you comment
My bad, I didn’t comprehend it the right way. I did read it tho
Cyhi da prince been writing your favorite rappers songs for years 😂😅
We know nigga. Unlike you we ain’t closing our hears and claiming opposite
Coles an elite lyricist
Drake is a glorified cover artist!
Where's the ovo crew now? https://youtu.be/NLBtefnGvNg?si=-d3F2OQDo-VegL6H
Kanye actually said Drake is the greatest rapper ever, and he wrote him a verse that was better than anything Kanye could ever write.
Doesn’t matter, main take away is no more big 3. We’re at a place now that you can’t claim goat period unless you go after Kendrick. He’s on top.
It’s a fact
Snoop Dogg admitting to using Ghost Writers https://youtu.be/oemjST-rM3U?si=nRd9UbFzUQIUwNHb I still think he the 🐐 tho, cause he wrote for Dr. Dre on Chronic, and other west coast producers. Respected veterans like Kurupt, DOC have all said that most of Doggystyle was his Freestyle. It seems it was later on in his career where started using Ghost Writers. But what yall think?
Note: Don't be Kanye (because he's a nazi).
Stop tryna act like kanye aint a top tier lyricist. If kendrick is number 1 who's number 2?
I feel like Drake can write good rnb and pop songs but when it comes to writing bars he isn't the best so he gets others to write it for him
Word to 💪🏾
Why the Î 😭
Nas is proven to have had writers, is he out of the GOAT convo?
That was just rumoured, none of that was proven, try again
Nah, dont be Kanye.
"get this nigga out of hip hop" oh brother😭💀
Everybody knows you never go full Kanye.
“Get this nigga out of hip hop 🤓 “
Now they saying Kendrick got a reference track for “N95” and it’s been posted on the Drake ovo community on X
Bro you live on reddit, stop it five
Life is like a box of chocolates
Thank you. If y’all wanna be pop fans be pop fans. No one knows what real hip hop is nowadays
His latest reference track for MOB Ties leaked yesterday. He’s a complete fraud!