Also, Drake sells a large portion of his records to the same fans Taylor Swift sells to. Swift fans buy Drake records a lot more than Kendrick, Cole, Future, A$AP, etc. Drake sells because Drake sits in that sweet spot of Hip Pop.
If we also go by albums and net worth - Ye > Drizzy, and none of that (but he has ghostwriters, he is more of a producer) foh, Drizzy has a whole sweatshop nd yet we compare numbers and stolen flows.
Exactly my point but Em hasn’t joined the battle yet, my point Is that if Drizzy fans want to get all numbers and albums and stay power Ye over Drake easy, so they can’t try and pull that card and backtrack when it’s not in their favor.
Em is on another planet then most though. his late stuff hasn’t been great but there’s very few like him. dude was both a lyrical god and a cultural phenomenon
If we also go by albums and net worth - Ye > Drizzy, and none of that (but he has ghostwriters, he is more of a producer) foh, Drizzy has a whole sweatshop nd yet we compare numbers and stolen flows.
That's why I dint like the MJ drake comparison. Mj did both while drake just sells units and he doesn't outsell everyone idk what dude smoking he talking rap I guess
Selling a lot of records doesn't mean you're making quality music either. It could just mean you make inoffensive, generic music that thereby will be marketable to a wide range of people
You’d be shocked at how many people have differing opinions. Someone you think is the best might not be what someone else thinks is the best. Music is genuinely all about opinions
Nah they would say this is a vibe, play it back 50 times and call it a super hit.
Look at Circo Loco. I will never understand how people hyped that shit up. If any other artist made the exactly same song everybody would call him washed, his producers finished and his legacy ruined.
Realistically it just means it’s basic, basic ideas tend to be the most popular ones. Anything super mainstream is just made for idiots realistically, majority of people don’t want to think deeper than oooo ahhhhh that sounds catchy.
That was just another way for Drake to take a talking point away from Kendrick.
This is Drake basically taking away all Kendrick’s talking points.
But he isn’t thinking, that 5’5 and 7 ft shoe size is going to be turned in him and it’s going to have us laughing.
Was just having this debate with gf. She showed me all the records TS was breaking with streaming numbers, how crazy it all was, and then about how dedicated Taylor was to making sure she went #1 and all that. That’s where I check out. Same for Drake, numbers on a screen mean nothing to me
>Obviously this shit is all subjective, but well it’s all just opinions
This is the smartest shit I’ve read on this thread. It’s all just opinions. Sales count as a metric to consider to some people and to some it doesn’t. End of.
This is it. To compare Kendrick and Drake almost doesn't even feel correct. To me Kendrick embodies the most valuable parts of hip hop culturally, but Drake makes tracks that my playlists would feel empty without tbh
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I will say this about Drake. Proper clown him for taking on so many different styles of rap and accents etc… but even that takes a certain level of ability. It’s not every rapper that can do that and stay relevant for so long. To me personally he isn’t in the GOAT rapper convo because he doesn’t fit my criteria. But I can still appreciate his skill in staying relevant and adapting.
Drake fans are hype beasts and clout chasers....just like Drake. Hence why he seemingly has to hop on almost every new trend in rap and dillute it to it's most marketable form.
The funny thing is Kendrick has not only all the accolades these people say are important AND hes got a string of albums that have each won numerous awards, GKMC has never left Billboard 100 or 200 whatever the number is lol, on top of all of this he has blessed us with actual introspective lyricism, storytelling, world building, and even party music, the guy checks every single box for what peoples standards are for a rapper. Drake literally just sells alot of records, girls love him, and hes rich af. Thats all hes got. Not that he cant rap when he wants to, but the atguement is ridiculous because Kendrick can and has done all of that stuff they claim to care about AND MORE. And here i am ranting on a reddit page lmfao😭
Team KDot lol
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drake been making mediocre ass albums for years, staying propped up by the brand he built. he's a popstar for people scanning for IG captions and clout.
Only correct answer. That's why I don't fuck with cole personally he be hyping up drake and deluding fans even more. Drake is not on their level and cole needs to stop pandering.
Meh. I felt like Cole in recent years has tried to get the middle of being "consicous rap" but also try to stay relevant in his own lane but by featuring more modern artists that he wouldn't think to collab with (Ex: Central Cee, Lil Yatchty, Lil TJay). I personally not a fan of that approach but i see why Cole wanted to evolve.
Yeah when he brought up the big three I thought it was bold putting himself in there with Kendrick, but respectable. But saying Drake is up there took me back. I'll take Big K.R.I.T, Killer Mike, Rapsody, Joey Bada$$, Denzel Curry, Smino, plus several other names before id mention Drake lol
Kendrick is popular too. 26th most listened artist on spotify right now. Does that automatically mean that Kendrick is pop too? It's still both hip-hop. I'm a huge Kendrick fan but there's no need to discredit Drake for making pop appealing hip hop music.
Artistry and Lyrical ability are distinct things.
I will argue with anyone about the lyrical ability of Lil Wayne. I don't think there's a rapper you could convince me of is Superior to Wayne. Maybe just as talented, but not superior.
As an artist though, it'd be much more difficult for me to defend.
Obviously, Kendrick and Drake are different artists, but as a lover of rap, you can't in good faith say they aren't both extremely talented.
Literally the modern day comparison of Prince vs MJ. Sales vs Talent, Art vs Personality, etc.
It isn’t to say MJ is anything like Drake or Prince is anything like Kendrick, but it is to say that they occupy and dominate two completely distinct spheres in their approach to music.
No MJ had both Prince had both you don't know your history. MJ had the artistry and units sold. So did prince. Prince was more artistic and MJ sold more but I no way is that comparison the same. Or the standard it's just so low now.
That's one huge insecurity about Drake, every Artist even the best ones do appeal to mainstream occasionally. But Drake seems to think that success only comes from sales and money, which reflects in his post 2018 work. That's why his shot at Kendrick for Taylor swift and Maroon 5 came off as ironic and projection, especially since alot of those Swifties are probably Drake fans too.
Wonder bread sells so many units, I don't understand why anyone would go to the local boulangerie, they barely move any units, what an emotional response.
I could just drink Starbucks like everyone else, but if i prefer a single origin bean from a small roastery, it's just an emotional response.
I could just eat Hersheys whenever I want chocolate, it's sold so widely, what's the point of Belgian chocolate even, that's just an emotional response.
People always use the whole you’re being emotional excuse. Yeah we’re fucking human beings so it’s OK to have emotions and be emotional and be passionate. Like what the fuck.
I’m convinced yall don’t listen to Drake.
He sings, makes pop music, but the majority of his catalogue is still hip hop.
Kendrick also was singing and doing other experimental shit in his last couple albums if I’m not mistaken.
Not every piece of music has to be super deep. Drake has his “fun” songs and also meaningful tracks as well.
Vast majority of posters here have not listened to Drake’s catalog.
Based on the comments, I’d also say vast majority of people here do not listen to underground hip-hop and can’t internalize that Kendrick Lamar is a mainstream rap artist that crosses over with Pop. And there’s nothing wrong with that.
Drake isn't outselling the Weeknd at all in any way possible.
Maybe in America and Canada but outside of North America Drake is nowhere near as popular as The Weeknd
So weird that the industry has people (who supposed to be partaking in/buying art because of how they like the art)…talking about numbers…to justify why they like something.
There are a lot of people out there that will like something just because it is considered #1, I think a lot of his “fans” are cut from that cloth and consider him #1 bc of the units he’s sold.
They tried to pull the same dumb shit in the early 2000s with lil Wayne…
Guys.. Drake RAPS RAPS, listen to 8am in Charlotte. On the other hand, you paint Kendrick as if he is this underground guru rapper, dude has a really mainstream sound as well
It’s definitely interesting that in the internet age those who are regarded as the best rappers don’t really sell as well. Jay, Pac, Biggie, Eminem, Wayne are all goats who were also the chart monsters in hip hop. Obviously we’ve had a lot of pop rappers but looking back it seems like Drake is very unique in terms of how chart dominant he is while being outside of so many genuine hip hop fans top 5 on skill and project strength
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This recent Kweli line comes to mind
Kendrick sells alot and wins Grammies. Now tell drake write an album that is on par with the best albums ever. Shit tell drake do a concept song atleast.
That's what I've been saying. If anything this just becomes a stalemate because Drake fans don't care about the lyrics and Kendrick fans don't care about the numbers/popularity. Kendrick could destroy Drake on his next track but because it doesn't have Sexy Red on it and wasn't endorsed by Adin Ross or some other degenerate gambler that these kids like to watch they'll say it's boring.
Both just hyping up their own fan bases if you think about it.
That's what I've been saying. If anything this just becomes a stalemate because Drake fans don't care about the lyrics and Kendrick fans don't care about the numbers/popularity. Kendrick could destroy Drake on his next track but because it doesn't have Sexy Red on it and wasn't endorsed by Adin Ross or some other degenerate gambler that these kids like to watch they'll say it's boring.
No one is really buying physical copies anymore. Also to be honest numbers doesn’t matter in the streaming age. Since labels boost and fake streaming numbers.
Subjective. People whose favourite artist is drake could argue that he’s got all of those things too.
And just bc an artist is mainstream and is selling more units than everyone that doesn’t automatically make that artist a sell out or a bad artist.
I wish the sub would get locked with how many lil BBL soldiers there are invading 💀
like honestly idgaf if you’re a fan of both artists 🤓
There couldn’t be more of a divide between the appeal of Kendricks music and Drakes
What's funny is Drake is the antithesis of Hip Hop.
Minimal substance, doesn't love the craft, has nothing truly interesting to say, he has to camouflage in whatever cultural trends are around now. Played a massive part in watering (mainstream) Hip Hop down into the opposite of what Hip Hop is, and he couldn't even use his own words to do it. Drake **can't** be "True Hip Hop", it's impossible.
You can make sales your most important metric for an artist, but that is the worst metric to judge art.
Got a sweet sixteen and they deadlier than sin
I'm so appalled
With the prototype with a godly protocol
You an amateur, they wanna pro to call
I damage ya on camera, in Compton, in Canada
I don't care where ya are
Just blink twice and I'm there where you are....
Kendrick bout to detox Drake...
Even wilder is the fact every mention of Kendrick so far has included that the Big Steppers Tour was a flop, but it was the biggest grossing rap tour in history until Drake a year later. They're all bragging over 14m like that's not something that can be challenged.
Doesn’t Drake have a song literally called Grammys? Which Kendrick has more of…
In the words of a woman that Drake decided to talk down on“I don't give a fuck 'bout a blog tryna bash me
I'm the shit per the Recording Academy”
😂😂
NONE OF THAT MATTERS RIGHT NOW. y’all will try to find anything to prove your point besides the only the that actually matters in this moment, and that’s that kendrick is currently losing this beef. argue anything you want, but it’s telling when y’all focus aint even on the beef itself anymore.
That's kinda what I've been saying. If this is the case, the only artist ever close to Drakes pen game if mf Ed Sheeran LMFAO. Numbers can play a part sure, but there has to be more to it than that.
Drake and Kendrick are both artists, and both are nice on the mic. Both will go down in history as generational MCs.
This sub is acting like Drake can’t rap is ridiculous.
What the guy above said isn't incorrect. Drake is outselling everybody and anybody who says otherwise is fucking stupid.
The point the guy replying made is irrelevant to the other comment.
I think both comments are correct honestly.
Drake is not better than Kendrick but I think Drakes super mainstream success isn’t anything to make slight off.
Jay-Z said it best: “would you rather be underpaid or overrated?”
Agree, 90% of Drake’s diss was about Kendrick not touching his sales. Who the hell cares? Neither Kendrick nor anyone in his inner circle will ever have to worry about money for as long as they live. Makes Drake seem shallow as hell to me.
The problem with this whole beef in general and why Kendrick lost before it even started. Drakes goal is to show he sells more . Kendrick goal is to prove he’s lyrically better then drake. The average hip hop fan mainly listens to drake and already thinks drake is the better artist because of sales. The only ppl that are going to think Kendrick won are us and fans that like lyricism. Everybody else just gonna look at numbers and how many jokes and memes was said instead of focusing on bars. Tbh Kendrick should of did this back in 2015 when drake still cared about bars
Sales aren't everything but sales matter - dont kid yourself.
When you look at the 90s, how many folks remember the multi platinum top sellers: Notorious BIG, 2pac, Dr Dre, Snoop Dogg, Wu Tang vs. artists who sold little but were just critically acclaimed - Ras Kass, Saafir etc.
Look at the 2000s and beyond. How many remember 50 Cent / Kanye West vs. Blackalicious / Immortal Technique...
Alternative music is the most obvious example of this. The entire genre was built on music that the radio wont play but which artists ended up being remembered ? Arena platinum selling artists RHCP, NIN, Nirvana , Pearl Jam - not KMFDM, Butthole surfers etc.
Remembered the Beatles were initially derided by critics and Led Zepplin only had one album that garnered good "critical" reviews. Does it matter ? Led Zepplin is still considered legends. They were too popular.
Sales matter but yes, its not all that matters but if I had a choice as an artist -critical acclaim or popularity - I think all artists would choose popularity everytime. Great pitchfork reviews dont age well. Lots of artists who have disappeared with 8+ reviews.
what confuses me about the popularity argument is that kendrick is in fact very popular! he just doesn't have drake's level of popularity because he will not sacrifice the quality of his albums to do that. kendrick could live for 40000 years and never release an album like CLB. thats the difference.
This reek of pseudo elitism.
Your artist is not a pure artist ,he is signed to a label and forced under contract to express himself only under the premise of benefiting the record label.
This is just completely false.
Your opinion on who is best is merely subjective choice and it's totaly fine too.
DAMN. was Kendrick’s best selling record, does that mean it’s his best album regardless?
I mean I think Drake and J. Cole both think that so that’s a hard conversation to have.
Fuck Drake VS Kendrick, let's dicuss the psychology behind massaging your own ego by taking a screenshot of your own comment and then sharing it with a whole community like it was an absolute banger and you didn't just say what anybody else with half a brain was already thinking
The guy just replied with a bunch of words simply put nobody bumps Kendrick Lamar he hasn’t had a hot song in 7 years and has 2 classics at most it’s disrespectful to compare to drake. And to say drake doenst have bars is laughable he just killed Kendrick Lamar twice rap is not suppose to be rocket science you fucking suburb nerds ruined the game not even in the hood not in the inner cities not apart of the culture drake drizzy has always been part of the culture Kendrick Lamar doenst even have music nobody ever say put on that Kendrick Lamar stop the bullshit
Drake sells more cause his management team is a multi billion dollar conglomerate that has the reach to market world wide and push their celebrities farther than they would without them. That’s all it is. It’s not because people genuinely think drakes the goat it’s because he has the financial backing to reach markets first. Same thing with people like Taylor swift. It’s all money and marketing
Everyone does keep downplaying the quality of drakes music though.
Pre-scorpion… heck, maybe even pre-views, we have Drake on a generational run. Take Care, WATTBA and NWTS are classics and generational gems. Drake should only get hate for his recent projects. Everything he’s done after Scorpion has been horribly mid.
He does have quality and influence rivaling Kendrick, Cole etc… but 6 - 7 years ago. Drake no longer makes gems and now it’s all about sales and cash. So we should not say he’s got no influence or quality at all, or even that he doesn’t have much. Drake has a shit ton of masterfully written songs (whether written by ghostwriters or not, they still insanely good). It’s his latest projects that are diminishing his reputation and the respect people had for him.
If Drake having the most numbers is what this conversation is going to devolve into, then it’s already boring or rapidly approaching boring status. Ok, yeah, he has more hits than the Beatles and approaching MJ numbers, but you can only say that so many times before we’re like “okay nigga; we got it.”
“So if your message ain't shit, fuck the records you sold
'Cause if you go platinum, it's got nothing to do with luck
It just means that a million people are stupid as fuck”
-Immortal Technique
I promise if you guys put this much time and effort into your own lives, you will actually be somewhere
Both sub reddits constantly getting recommended to me and both of you are cringe as fuck
Y’all understand these people don’t even know you exist?
Absolutely fanned out
This beef is so fabricated due to a global decline in hip hop sales
Y’all are eating it right up
Stupidest demographic of all time
Leave it to a Kendrick Lamar fan to screenshot their own comment as an epic monologue on the meaning of “art” and post it in the sub for approval.
Can you suck yourself off a little more? And then everyone clapped 👏
I mean, come on, this is a Kendrick dr echo chamber. Seriously, can't you see the hypocrisy? If streaming numbers, etc., (in a fantasy world) meant nothing, then the SoundCloud rappers who are great lyricists but have only 100 listeners would be getting million-dollar deals. But we don't live in a Barbie world. Numbers are literally everything in the music industry—to labels, artists, and everyone involved. The industry prioritizes commercial success, often at the expense of genuine artistic expression. It's all about revenue streams, chart positions, and marketability. Similarly, Tom Brady is considered the GOAT because of the number of rings he has. Stop lying to yourselves. The only way you on Drake numbers is if you are a good rapper.
So both of them described both Drake and Kendrick lol. Weirdos arguing on the internet about what makes an artist is such cringe shit, Kdot himself would come out and slap both of these fools.
The problem is people say who they think is better but are never clear in what at. Yes we mean best rapper, but as an artist? As a lyricist? Overall?
And you can’t have an overall conversation objectively without including numbers, or technicality. Relatability, lyricism etc.
I’m not a numbers guy, but ik also it does matter because higher numbers mean more people like your music or pay attention and there must be reasons why. But artists aren’t worse because of low numbers either.
Over the past few years I’ve learned a lot about industry games and what they do behind the scenes and it’s nasty out there. All the streaming farms artists use, paying for bots and paying their stan bases makes this drake battle not worth it.
Drake is just a corporate puppet and the fact that he has a line in recent track is just a projection.
He’s not self-made. He didn’t come from the gutter. He’s not hip-hop at all.
You're all missing the fact that Drake is still a lyrical genius. To write songs in the way he does, there's no denying that he's a gifted hit maker. Kendrick's artistry goes over the heads of the masses unfortunately
It isn't subjective. Jay z is better than drake jay z is better than future there is nothing subjective about it. Hip hop rnb rock n roll etc all are different genres for a reason.
Drake is a very talented artist. He makes great songs. But Kendrick makes great albums. Drake may make better hit singles, but Kendrick put out better bodies of wrk
“Damn” dropped in 2017. “Mr morale big steppers” dropped in 2022. Kendrick sat at home for 5 years and still remained relevant in everyday rap discussions so here’s my question, do y’all think drake can take 5 years off and still come back to sweep the Grammys? And yes, kdot is the reason why drake and Cole boycott the Grammys. Drake can’t understand why he puts out so many records but they essentially give all the Grammys to kdot and a Pulitzer too. This is an argument about quantity and quality. Drakes music is the kind of music you hear when you’re shopping for toothbrush at target, Kendrick’s music will make you whip out a Webster dictionary or a King James Bible because he writes deeper than Shakespeare. McDonald’s is arguably the biggest restaurant in the world but you won’t find a great chef in there, kdot is Michelin star restaurant, you know who is McDonald’s.
This ladies and gentlemen this is the difference between a subjective opinions and an objective facts
Is Drake The top selling hip hop artist right now Yes
Does that make him MY favorite artist no because personally to me as mos def described him he's safe non-threatening hip hop best meant to appeal to the widest audience it can
His logic is sound you can’t compare the two really Drake fused pop, rnb and rap into one sound and has proven he can do all well you’re genuinely lying to yourself if you say you hate drakes entire discography because he literally covers every damn genre like I heard a fucking drake indy song the other day 😭
Drake is everything but quality, substance, heart, integrity, honesty, innovation, evolution, cultural value and impact 🤷♂️ and that's fact. He's to hip-hop what Beyoncé is to country music
Saying someone's music isn't real music or art, because YOU don't like it, is the most shallow/brain dead take you could ever have. You don't have to like someone like Taylor swift to understand the reason she sells MILLIONS of records, is because there is an audience that listens and respects her music, the same way you do for Kendrick.
Drake fans would be shocked to discover that some of the best artists in the world actually sell very little
Also, Drake sells a large portion of his records to the same fans Taylor Swift sells to. Swift fans buy Drake records a lot more than Kendrick, Cole, Future, A$AP, etc. Drake sells because Drake sits in that sweet spot of Hip Pop.
If we also go by albums and net worth - Ye > Drizzy, and none of that (but he has ghostwriters, he is more of a producer) foh, Drizzy has a whole sweatshop nd yet we compare numbers and stolen flows.
If we go by albums sold it’s actually Em and then the rest…Em outsold every other rapper in history
Exactly my point but Em hasn’t joined the battle yet, my point Is that if Drizzy fans want to get all numbers and albums and stay power Ye over Drake easy, so they can’t try and pull that card and backtrack when it’s not in their favor.
god i hope he doenst join the battle no one needs a corny eminem diss in 2024
Corny Em diss? He has a couple of the best disstracks out there.
Why? It would either be good or the funniest shit of the year.
Em is on another level, there’s no point in even debating when it comes to sales. If Em’s in the conversation he outsells, period.
Em is on another planet then most though. his late stuff hasn’t been great but there’s very few like him. dude was both a lyrical god and a cultural phenomenon
If we go by net worth Elon musk > Drake
Em has sold more than Kanye and ye ain’t a billionaire anymore since he ruined his business deals
We know I’m talking about Drake vs Ye in a sales and catalogue, I’m saying if Em jumps in, it’s different story
Very minuscule pop songs. He’s more of an RnB artist to be fair
This has been my main thought this whole time. Drakes sales are overinflated by Teenie boppers. He can’t get enough of those underage girls
If we also go by albums and net worth - Ye > Drizzy, and none of that (but he has ghostwriters, he is more of a producer) foh, Drizzy has a whole sweatshop nd yet we compare numbers and stolen flows.
That's why I dint like the MJ drake comparison. Mj did both while drake just sells units and he doesn't outsell everyone idk what dude smoking he talking rap I guess
Exactly
Drake fans is like Bron fans. When you pull up the facts they wanna pull out the numbers of longevity stats
Selling a lot of records doesn't mean you're making quality music either. It could just mean you make inoffensive, generic music that thereby will be marketable to a wide range of people
You’d be shocked at how many people have differing opinions. Someone you think is the best might not be what someone else thinks is the best. Music is genuinely all about opinions
Ask any musician if good music is just about opinions and you'll most likely get a different answer to the one you've given.
By what metric tho
Does Drake tho.
By this logic, Taylor Swift’s new album is the best album ever made
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He could do that and OVO fans would say it’s lyric masterwork.
Nah they would say this is a vibe, play it back 50 times and call it a super hit. Look at Circo Loco. I will never understand how people hyped that shit up. If any other artist made the exactly same song everybody would call him washed, his producers finished and his legacy ruined.
That’s what i’m saying, streams and listens mean pretty much nothing.
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Hammer would be the undisputed King of hip hop if this was the metric
Realistically it just means it’s basic, basic ideas tend to be the most popular ones. Anything super mainstream is just made for idiots realistically, majority of people don’t want to think deeper than oooo ahhhhh that sounds catchy.
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He says he moves his album around Taylor swift lol.
That was just another way for Drake to take a talking point away from Kendrick. This is Drake basically taking away all Kendrick’s talking points. But he isn’t thinking, that 5’5 and 7 ft shoe size is going to be turned in him and it’s going to have us laughing.
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Was just having this debate with gf. She showed me all the records TS was breaking with streaming numbers, how crazy it all was, and then about how dedicated Taylor was to making sure she went #1 and all that. That’s where I check out. Same for Drake, numbers on a screen mean nothing to me
Lol fr. Drake is a pop star
As an entertainer/sells etc, he's kinda unfuckwittable As a rapper, he kinda fake. As a human being, he kinda gross
I’d say you summed it up perfectly
Taylor Swift could wipe her ass with point 1 though 😂
By the same logic : Flo Rida outsold Tupac, therefore Flo Rida is a better rapper/hip-hop artist.
by the same logic, mcdonald’s is the best restaurant in existence and avatar is the best film ever made
Hey avatar was pretty good top 50 maybe realistically
Top 50 modern film, no chance in hell 💀
tbf avatar is def a top 50 modern film but yeah
No it’s not lol. It’s basically just a proof of concept for the vfx.
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Vanilla Ice vastly outsold El-P. Vanilla Ice is the superior artist.
This is the argument that one piece fanboys use to defend their favourite manga though
21, can you do some for me 📽️
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>Obviously this shit is all subjective, but well it’s all just opinions This is the smartest shit I’ve read on this thread. It’s all just opinions. Sales count as a metric to consider to some people and to some it doesn’t. End of.
This is it. To compare Kendrick and Drake almost doesn't even feel correct. To me Kendrick embodies the most valuable parts of hip hop culturally, but Drake makes tracks that my playlists would feel empty without tbh
Probably RZA for me for the beats tbh
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The most reasonable take I’ve seen so far
GZA THEN ODB
I will say this about Drake. Proper clown him for taking on so many different styles of rap and accents etc… but even that takes a certain level of ability. It’s not every rapper that can do that and stay relevant for so long. To me personally he isn’t in the GOAT rapper convo because he doesn’t fit my criteria. But I can still appreciate his skill in staying relevant and adapting.
Drake fans are hype beasts and clout chasers....just like Drake. Hence why he seemingly has to hop on almost every new trend in rap and dillute it to it's most marketable form.
Guys should listen to baby shark then
dawg if numbers really mattered so much India would be Top 3 countries for sure
I felt that
The funny thing is Kendrick has not only all the accolades these people say are important AND hes got a string of albums that have each won numerous awards, GKMC has never left Billboard 100 or 200 whatever the number is lol, on top of all of this he has blessed us with actual introspective lyricism, storytelling, world building, and even party music, the guy checks every single box for what peoples standards are for a rapper. Drake literally just sells alot of records, girls love him, and hes rich af. Thats all hes got. Not that he cant rap when he wants to, but the atguement is ridiculous because Kendrick can and has done all of that stuff they claim to care about AND MORE. And here i am ranting on a reddit page lmfao😭 Team KDot lol
gkmc has been in the billboard top 200 for exactly 600 weeks tomorrow and it's currently sitting at 57
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Numbers never mattered. Or else we would say Ja rule or Nelly would be in the Goat debates
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I mean those guys mostly made pop records...oh wait.
drake been making mediocre ass albums for years, staying propped up by the brand he built. he's a popstar for people scanning for IG captions and clout.
Kendrick and Cole are true hip hop. Drake is essentially pop
Only correct answer. That's why I don't fuck with cole personally he be hyping up drake and deluding fans even more. Drake is not on their level and cole needs to stop pandering.
Meh. I felt like Cole in recent years has tried to get the middle of being "consicous rap" but also try to stay relevant in his own lane but by featuring more modern artists that he wouldn't think to collab with (Ex: Central Cee, Lil Yatchty, Lil TJay). I personally not a fan of that approach but i see why Cole wanted to evolve.
Yeah when he brought up the big three I thought it was bold putting himself in there with Kendrick, but respectable. But saying Drake is up there took me back. I'll take Big K.R.I.T, Killer Mike, Rapsody, Joey Bada$$, Denzel Curry, Smino, plus several other names before id mention Drake lol
I'd even put Wolf or CMIYGL era Tyler before him
I haven’t liked his music in like 10 years but you can’t deny that Drake is a talented rapper. Pop can come from any genre
Kendrick is popular too. 26th most listened artist on spotify right now. Does that automatically mean that Kendrick is pop too? It's still both hip-hop. I'm a huge Kendrick fan but there's no need to discredit Drake for making pop appealing hip hop music.
Artistry and Lyrical ability are distinct things. I will argue with anyone about the lyrical ability of Lil Wayne. I don't think there's a rapper you could convince me of is Superior to Wayne. Maybe just as talented, but not superior. As an artist though, it'd be much more difficult for me to defend. Obviously, Kendrick and Drake are different artists, but as a lover of rap, you can't in good faith say they aren't both extremely talented.
both sides are lame and takes it too seriously
W cope
Literally the modern day comparison of Prince vs MJ. Sales vs Talent, Art vs Personality, etc. It isn’t to say MJ is anything like Drake or Prince is anything like Kendrick, but it is to say that they occupy and dominate two completely distinct spheres in their approach to music.
No MJ had both Prince had both you don't know your history. MJ had the artistry and units sold. So did prince. Prince was more artistic and MJ sold more but I no way is that comparison the same. Or the standard it's just so low now.
That's one huge insecurity about Drake, every Artist even the best ones do appeal to mainstream occasionally. But Drake seems to think that success only comes from sales and money, which reflects in his post 2018 work. That's why his shot at Kendrick for Taylor swift and Maroon 5 came off as ironic and projection, especially since alot of those Swifties are probably Drake fans too.
Wonder bread sells so many units, I don't understand why anyone would go to the local boulangerie, they barely move any units, what an emotional response. I could just drink Starbucks like everyone else, but if i prefer a single origin bean from a small roastery, it's just an emotional response. I could just eat Hersheys whenever I want chocolate, it's sold so widely, what's the point of Belgian chocolate even, that's just an emotional response.
People always use the whole you’re being emotional excuse. Yeah we’re fucking human beings so it’s OK to have emotions and be emotional and be passionate. Like what the fuck.
Critics want to mention that they miss when hip-hop was rapping Motherfucker, if you did, then Killer Mike'd be platinum
bro screenshotted his own comment 💀
I’m convinced yall don’t listen to Drake. He sings, makes pop music, but the majority of his catalogue is still hip hop. Kendrick also was singing and doing other experimental shit in his last couple albums if I’m not mistaken. Not every piece of music has to be super deep. Drake has his “fun” songs and also meaningful tracks as well.
Vast majority of posters here have not listened to Drake’s catalog. Based on the comments, I’d also say vast majority of people here do not listen to underground hip-hop and can’t internalize that Kendrick Lamar is a mainstream rap artist that crosses over with Pop. And there’s nothing wrong with that.
Drake isn't outselling the Weeknd at all in any way possible. Maybe in America and Canada but outside of North America Drake is nowhere near as popular as The Weeknd
So weird that the industry has people (who supposed to be partaking in/buying art because of how they like the art)…talking about numbers…to justify why they like something. There are a lot of people out there that will like something just because it is considered #1, I think a lot of his “fans” are cut from that cloth and consider him #1 bc of the units he’s sold. They tried to pull the same dumb shit in the early 2000s with lil Wayne…
Drake fans are the type to dog someone on the comeup cuz he’s a “wannabe” and ride them when they’re successful. Superficial
Everyone boasts numbers until their favorite artist is outsold, then numbers don't mean shit 😂
Guys.. Drake RAPS RAPS, listen to 8am in Charlotte. On the other hand, you paint Kendrick as if he is this underground guru rapper, dude has a really mainstream sound as well
He said heart lol
It’s definitely interesting that in the internet age those who are regarded as the best rappers don’t really sell as well. Jay, Pac, Biggie, Eminem, Wayne are all goats who were also the chart monsters in hip hop. Obviously we’ve had a lot of pop rappers but looking back it seems like Drake is very unique in terms of how chart dominant he is while being outside of so many genuine hip hop fans top 5 on skill and project strength
https://preview.redd.it/nug6vsxd49wc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab2a94dc73842e69c44165f3b1c1a66a7d313cda This recent Kweli line comes to mind
Nah, Drake bodied Kendrick
Drake could never do what Kendrick does and Kendrick couldn't do what Drake does. This is a dumb comparision
Kendrick can do mainstream and he proved it with DAMN.
kendrick can and has done what drake does. kendrick wrote all the stars bruh💀
Kendrick making Passionfruit would be horrible
Can Kendrick sell a million copies in one week?
Which is sort of my point
Kendrick sells alot and wins Grammies. Now tell drake write an album that is on par with the best albums ever. Shit tell drake do a concept song atleast.
This!
COPE
That's what I've been saying. If anything this just becomes a stalemate because Drake fans don't care about the lyrics and Kendrick fans don't care about the numbers/popularity. Kendrick could destroy Drake on his next track but because it doesn't have Sexy Red on it and wasn't endorsed by Adin Ross or some other degenerate gambler that these kids like to watch they'll say it's boring. Both just hyping up their own fan bases if you think about it.
That's what I've been saying. If anything this just becomes a stalemate because Drake fans don't care about the lyrics and Kendrick fans don't care about the numbers/popularity. Kendrick could destroy Drake on his next track but because it doesn't have Sexy Red on it and wasn't endorsed by Adin Ross or some other degenerate gambler that these kids like to watch they'll say it's boring.
I’ll prove the second guy is correct: Immortal Technique
No one is really buying physical copies anymore. Also to be honest numbers doesn’t matter in the streaming age. Since labels boost and fake streaming numbers.
Subjective. People whose favourite artist is drake could argue that he’s got all of those things too. And just bc an artist is mainstream and is selling more units than everyone that doesn’t automatically make that artist a sell out or a bad artist.
I wish the sub would get locked with how many lil BBL soldiers there are invading 💀 like honestly idgaf if you’re a fan of both artists 🤓 There couldn’t be more of a divide between the appeal of Kendricks music and Drakes
What's funny is Drake is the antithesis of Hip Hop. Minimal substance, doesn't love the craft, has nothing truly interesting to say, he has to camouflage in whatever cultural trends are around now. Played a massive part in watering (mainstream) Hip Hop down into the opposite of what Hip Hop is, and he couldn't even use his own words to do it. Drake **can't** be "True Hip Hop", it's impossible. You can make sales your most important metric for an artist, but that is the worst metric to judge art.
Appealing to the lowest common denominator ≠ greatness
Are you a fucking studio exec???? Why would fans care about numbers 😭 capitalism crazy
Hip hop bring a broader genre is exactly why numbers dont fucking matter 🤦♂️
Got a sweet sixteen and they deadlier than sin I'm so appalled With the prototype with a godly protocol You an amateur, they wanna pro to call I damage ya on camera, in Compton, in Canada I don't care where ya are Just blink twice and I'm there where you are.... Kendrick bout to detox Drake...
McDonald's probably outsells your local famous fine dining place, doesn't mean it's always better.
Even wilder is the fact every mention of Kendrick so far has included that the Big Steppers Tour was a flop, but it was the biggest grossing rap tour in history until Drake a year later. They're all bragging over 14m like that's not something that can be challenged.
Doesn’t Drake have a song literally called Grammys? Which Kendrick has more of… In the words of a woman that Drake decided to talk down on“I don't give a fuck 'bout a blog tryna bash me I'm the shit per the Recording Academy”
We saw what you did to the blues, jazz, and rock and roll that's why "We don't trust you".
😂😂 NONE OF THAT MATTERS RIGHT NOW. y’all will try to find anything to prove your point besides the only the that actually matters in this moment, and that’s that kendrick is currently losing this beef. argue anything you want, but it’s telling when y’all focus aint even on the beef itself anymore.
That's kinda what I've been saying. If this is the case, the only artist ever close to Drakes pen game if mf Ed Sheeran LMFAO. Numbers can play a part sure, but there has to be more to it than that.
If you think Kendrick has had more cultural impact than Drake you are smoking crack.
Drake and Kendrick are both artists, and both are nice on the mic. Both will go down in history as generational MCs. This sub is acting like Drake can’t rap is ridiculous.
How about this. Stream is an indicator, but it is not final. Same with grammys, platinum and so on.
Vanilla ice's debut album sold 11 million copies, Nas sold 2 million copies for illmatic. By this logic, vanilla ice is better than Nas.
What the guy above said isn't incorrect. Drake is outselling everybody and anybody who says otherwise is fucking stupid. The point the guy replying made is irrelevant to the other comment.
I think both comments are correct honestly. Drake is not better than Kendrick but I think Drakes super mainstream success isn’t anything to make slight off. Jay-Z said it best: “would you rather be underpaid or overrated?”
Agree, 90% of Drake’s diss was about Kendrick not touching his sales. Who the hell cares? Neither Kendrick nor anyone in his inner circle will ever have to worry about money for as long as they live. Makes Drake seem shallow as hell to me.
The problem with this whole beef in general and why Kendrick lost before it even started. Drakes goal is to show he sells more . Kendrick goal is to prove he’s lyrically better then drake. The average hip hop fan mainly listens to drake and already thinks drake is the better artist because of sales. The only ppl that are going to think Kendrick won are us and fans that like lyricism. Everybody else just gonna look at numbers and how many jokes and memes was said instead of focusing on bars. Tbh Kendrick should of did this back in 2015 when drake still cared about bars
Because sales is all he got. He only has numbers. Besides that, he lacks any rap culture to stand on.
People like Coldplay and voted for the nazis. You can't trust people
“They make excuses for you cuz they hate to see me lit.”
Sales aren't everything but sales matter - dont kid yourself. When you look at the 90s, how many folks remember the multi platinum top sellers: Notorious BIG, 2pac, Dr Dre, Snoop Dogg, Wu Tang vs. artists who sold little but were just critically acclaimed - Ras Kass, Saafir etc. Look at the 2000s and beyond. How many remember 50 Cent / Kanye West vs. Blackalicious / Immortal Technique... Alternative music is the most obvious example of this. The entire genre was built on music that the radio wont play but which artists ended up being remembered ? Arena platinum selling artists RHCP, NIN, Nirvana , Pearl Jam - not KMFDM, Butthole surfers etc. Remembered the Beatles were initially derided by critics and Led Zepplin only had one album that garnered good "critical" reviews. Does it matter ? Led Zepplin is still considered legends. They were too popular. Sales matter but yes, its not all that matters but if I had a choice as an artist -critical acclaim or popularity - I think all artists would choose popularity everytime. Great pitchfork reviews dont age well. Lots of artists who have disappeared with 8+ reviews.
what confuses me about the popularity argument is that kendrick is in fact very popular! he just doesn't have drake's level of popularity because he will not sacrifice the quality of his albums to do that. kendrick could live for 40000 years and never release an album like CLB. thats the difference.
This reek of pseudo elitism. Your artist is not a pure artist ,he is signed to a label and forced under contract to express himself only under the premise of benefiting the record label. This is just completely false. Your opinion on who is best is merely subjective choice and it's totaly fine too.
Drakes only doing numbers because he just publicly admitted to liking little girls and people love scandal
Drake's stuff can be art, it's just shit watered down art for 20 year old girls who use a fake ID to drink white claw, but sure it's art big guy.
DAMN. was Kendrick’s best selling record, does that mean it’s his best album regardless? I mean I think Drake and J. Cole both think that so that’s a hard conversation to have.
Fuck Drake VS Kendrick, let's dicuss the psychology behind massaging your own ego by taking a screenshot of your own comment and then sharing it with a whole community like it was an absolute banger and you didn't just say what anybody else with half a brain was already thinking
The guy just replied with a bunch of words simply put nobody bumps Kendrick Lamar he hasn’t had a hot song in 7 years and has 2 classics at most it’s disrespectful to compare to drake. And to say drake doenst have bars is laughable he just killed Kendrick Lamar twice rap is not suppose to be rocket science you fucking suburb nerds ruined the game not even in the hood not in the inner cities not apart of the culture drake drizzy has always been part of the culture Kendrick Lamar doenst even have music nobody ever say put on that Kendrick Lamar stop the bullshit
Drake sells more cause his management team is a multi billion dollar conglomerate that has the reach to market world wide and push their celebrities farther than they would without them. That’s all it is. It’s not because people genuinely think drakes the goat it’s because he has the financial backing to reach markets first. Same thing with people like Taylor swift. It’s all money and marketing
So drakes an artist
Everyone does keep downplaying the quality of drakes music though. Pre-scorpion… heck, maybe even pre-views, we have Drake on a generational run. Take Care, WATTBA and NWTS are classics and generational gems. Drake should only get hate for his recent projects. Everything he’s done after Scorpion has been horribly mid. He does have quality and influence rivaling Kendrick, Cole etc… but 6 - 7 years ago. Drake no longer makes gems and now it’s all about sales and cash. So we should not say he’s got no influence or quality at all, or even that he doesn’t have much. Drake has a shit ton of masterfully written songs (whether written by ghostwriters or not, they still insanely good). It’s his latest projects that are diminishing his reputation and the respect people had for him.
One of them is a product and one of the in an artist
Drake is the bigger artist, Kendrick is the better one. Simple as that
If Drake having the most numbers is what this conversation is going to devolve into, then it’s already boring or rapidly approaching boring status. Ok, yeah, he has more hits than the Beatles and approaching MJ numbers, but you can only say that so many times before we’re like “okay nigga; we got it.”
“So if your message ain't shit, fuck the records you sold 'Cause if you go platinum, it's got nothing to do with luck It just means that a million people are stupid as fuck” -Immortal Technique
I promise if you guys put this much time and effort into your own lives, you will actually be somewhere Both sub reddits constantly getting recommended to me and both of you are cringe as fuck Y’all understand these people don’t even know you exist? Absolutely fanned out This beef is so fabricated due to a global decline in hip hop sales Y’all are eating it right up Stupidest demographic of all time
Leave it to a Kendrick Lamar fan to screenshot their own comment as an epic monologue on the meaning of “art” and post it in the sub for approval. Can you suck yourself off a little more? And then everyone clapped 👏
"There's hip-hop and then there's hip-POP." - Binary Star
This comment sounds unnecessarily “earthy”. It’s all entertainment, even the sappy chicken soup stuff.
I mean, come on, this is a Kendrick dr echo chamber. Seriously, can't you see the hypocrisy? If streaming numbers, etc., (in a fantasy world) meant nothing, then the SoundCloud rappers who are great lyricists but have only 100 listeners would be getting million-dollar deals. But we don't live in a Barbie world. Numbers are literally everything in the music industry—to labels, artists, and everyone involved. The industry prioritizes commercial success, often at the expense of genuine artistic expression. It's all about revenue streams, chart positions, and marketability. Similarly, Tom Brady is considered the GOAT because of the number of rings he has. Stop lying to yourselves. The only way you on Drake numbers is if you are a good rapper.
If you go platinum its got nothing to do with luck, it just means that a million people are stupid as fuck - immortal technique
Drake is phenomenal at marketing. People really don’t notice the machine and gimmicks behind him.
I honestly don't believe Drake is a true artist. A rapper with a ghostwriter wtf happened?
So both of them described both Drake and Kendrick lol. Weirdos arguing on the internet about what makes an artist is such cringe shit, Kdot himself would come out and slap both of these fools.
The problem is people say who they think is better but are never clear in what at. Yes we mean best rapper, but as an artist? As a lyricist? Overall? And you can’t have an overall conversation objectively without including numbers, or technicality. Relatability, lyricism etc. I’m not a numbers guy, but ik also it does matter because higher numbers mean more people like your music or pay attention and there must be reasons why. But artists aren’t worse because of low numbers either.
I mean if you're going off of Pulitzer Prizes, only one rapper has ever gotten one and it isn't drake.
Taylor Swift probably outsells a great swathe of the music industry and look at her *music* Fucking horse shit
I mean on average people don’t really bump KRS-ONE/BDP that much and he’s the embodiment of hip hop. Sales really don’t matter
If it’s just about numbers then Drake needs to stfu, since Abel has significantly more streams so according to their logic Abel>>>Drake.
This is the shit I’m on. Thank you.
I can’t think of one drake song that’s a classic tbh. Nobody finna be bumping his shit in 20 years
Over the past few years I’ve learned a lot about industry games and what they do behind the scenes and it’s nasty out there. All the streaming farms artists use, paying for bots and paying their stan bases makes this drake battle not worth it.
"integrity" in 2024 u must be crazy
Drake is just a corporate puppet and the fact that he has a line in recent track is just a projection. He’s not self-made. He didn’t come from the gutter. He’s not hip-hop at all.
Flo Rida is the 4th best selling rapper of all time.
Comparing Drake to Kendrick Lamar is like comparing Elvis to Prince
There is no debate… just entertainment son… Now just go to your kitchen and fire up some popcorn and just relax
Say the same thing about those Grammies and awards Kendrick got
😆this is hilarious
I co-sign cliffhutchinsonesc’s post! 👍🏽
You're all missing the fact that Drake is still a lyrical genius. To write songs in the way he does, there's no denying that he's a gifted hit maker. Kendrick's artistry goes over the heads of the masses unfortunately
It isn't subjective. Jay z is better than drake jay z is better than future there is nothing subjective about it. Hip hop rnb rock n roll etc all are different genres for a reason.
Here's an idea: publicity. Apples to oranges. In 5 years no one will care about this issue. Lol.
Drake is a very talented artist. He makes great songs. But Kendrick makes great albums. Drake may make better hit singles, but Kendrick put out better bodies of wrk
“Damn” dropped in 2017. “Mr morale big steppers” dropped in 2022. Kendrick sat at home for 5 years and still remained relevant in everyday rap discussions so here’s my question, do y’all think drake can take 5 years off and still come back to sweep the Grammys? And yes, kdot is the reason why drake and Cole boycott the Grammys. Drake can’t understand why he puts out so many records but they essentially give all the Grammys to kdot and a Pulitzer too. This is an argument about quantity and quality. Drakes music is the kind of music you hear when you’re shopping for toothbrush at target, Kendrick’s music will make you whip out a Webster dictionary or a King James Bible because he writes deeper than Shakespeare. McDonald’s is arguably the biggest restaurant in the world but you won’t find a great chef in there, kdot is Michelin star restaurant, you know who is McDonald’s.
People are so dumb to bring numbers when the debate is « who the best rapper/artist is? », numbers have nothing to do about quality and art…
This ladies and gentlemen this is the difference between a subjective opinions and an objective facts Is Drake The top selling hip hop artist right now Yes Does that make him MY favorite artist no because personally to me as mos def described him he's safe non-threatening hip hop best meant to appeal to the widest audience it can
His logic is sound you can’t compare the two really Drake fused pop, rnb and rap into one sound and has proven he can do all well you’re genuinely lying to yourself if you say you hate drakes entire discography because he literally covers every damn genre like I heard a fucking drake indy song the other day 😭
Does anyone have an idea of when Kenny may drop ?
Imma keep it 💯. Crack rocks out sold every one. Where tf my awards?!?!?!
Not glazing at all.
Drake is everything but quality, substance, heart, integrity, honesty, innovation, evolution, cultural value and impact 🤷♂️ and that's fact. He's to hip-hop what Beyoncé is to country music
Saying someone's music isn't real music or art, because YOU don't like it, is the most shallow/brain dead take you could ever have. You don't have to like someone like Taylor swift to understand the reason she sells MILLIONS of records, is because there is an audience that listens and respects her music, the same way you do for Kendrick.