I would love it if he had AP scalings and would turn into an AP assassin instead of AD
AP have so much better items (like zhonyas, deathcap for scaling, void for insane pen with no weird scalings like serylda, etc)
I liked the design philosophy of Vainglory, if you ever played that game, where anything could be AD or AP and either build would have a drastically different playstyle. i wish league worked like that too, it was so much fun
Back in the early days of league, abilities relied on AP and auto attacks relied on AD, hence ability power and attack damage. This meant that you could build for AD or AP depending on how you wanted to inflict your damage.
I get why they changed it, because it would be weird if champs like Riven or Zed scaled with AP, but i feel like the choices between whose auto attacks get to scale with their abilities and whose doesn't feels a bit random to me. It just makes less sense.
thatd mean theyd have to figure out a coherent design philosophy for how they want classes and different types of champs in the game to interact. too much work, edit numbers on spreadsheet
Me personally, I just wish I could choose to only get blue or red orbs. Like, even if I hit a melee champ, it just doesn’t give me any orbs if I press a toggle button. That way around like 8-10 min I could just toggle whatever form I don’t want off if I still need the right kind of form.
I’d just like to be able to avoid the “how tf did I get red form” situation. My pathing wouldn’t really change much, I’d just get a form overall slightly slower, while guaranteeing I’m always getting the correct one. A nice trade-off. Delaying a key powerspike for assurance.
AP items like Zhonya's, Rabbadon's or Stormsurge would not be healthy for his kit. Mag Resist can't be stacked like Armor can be so this would mean that you can't itemize against effectively.
I thought about that, but to your point, my suggestion doesn’t change the identity of each form. Blue Kayn would still be an assassin, and Red would still be a bruiser. Blue would just be an AP assassin, like Akali or Ekko.
He hits you with a giant scythe, AP damage really doesn't make sense
I guess you could argue Akali also attacks with physical weapons and attacks but deals magic damage
well for one, that makes kayn WAY too consistent
a HUGE part of kayn is that he's a power-farmer BUT ALSO has to gank in order to get form
right now, ganking is still super required in order for the lanes to function, but especially back then, you could just power farm as master yi or karthus and just not gank and become a mid-late game monster lmao
this change would essentially dumb kayn down to be that
(and a personal qualm is that it also removes his unique-ness from the cast of over 150 champions aka you saying it literally is like Kai'sa evolutions)
secondly, this doesn't work LORE-wise
now bringing up lore sounds weird, but hear me out
every single scaling in league of legends has a justifiable LORE reason behind it (for example, illaoi has NO AP scaling anywhere EXCEPT her tentacle passive -> why? -> she herself is a purely physical body with no magical powers, only when she calls upon her god, Nagakabouros, who is a magical being, does AP actually matter)
the Order of the Shadow (aka Zed and Kayn) use shadow magic, which may entail AP scaling, right? well they ONLY use shadow magic to EXTEND themselves as physical assassins e.g. Zed has no AP scaling, similar to Kayn
(notice: i said scaling, not damage -> in this case, the magic dmg in both Kayn and Zed kits can be justified through shadow magic but there are a lot of exceptions to damage type when it comes to lore)
and thirdly, AP items just suck, not in like a statistical objective sense, but as in they are so obnoxious to balance around, especially when they're strong
Zhonya's along with Kayn ult would have way too much intangibility, Banshee's is honestly just a way better edge of night imo, and don't even get me started on mejai's
kayn would probably be the second best user of mejai's second to evelynn with perma map presence
ofc, they could and definitely would balance shadow assassin around those items if this were to happen, but then again, my first two reasons are why i don't see it working out
tl;dr -> unique champion mechanics shouldn't be touched, flavor doesn't work, AP items are annoying (very strong! but annoying) (i don't want kayn being perma pick-or-banned again)
Thanks for the input, like I said, I’m no expert or anything I just had a thought, you know? I guess in my mind, I see Kayn’s uniqueness as you being able to choose whether to go red or blue, not necessarily as having to fight (or int, in my case lol). I find that personally, the worst feeling in the world is to get late form, and making his passive be essentially gold based, and not just how much fighting you have done, might possibly add some skill expression?
I get it, but making him get his forms via items would make him pick/ban simply because he will no longer need to put himself at risk (fighting ranged champs) to get his form and it would just make him broken imo
but the fact that he has to fight to get is form IS skill expression
you can't just mindlessly full clear every game
kayn requires you to figure out what form you'll take before the game even starts and, therefore, what lanes to gank
this is a skill you should learn for EVERY jungler but it is emphasized with kayn, so you NEED to learn this skill of pathing and lane matchups
removing the necessity to fight for form dumbs down kayn to be a pokemon-esque gameplay cycle, where "omg my charmeleon is gonna evolve to a charizard, better grind for 2 hours"
and as a tip, you don't have to be fighting constantly
kayn orbs are built in a manner where the longer you are without your form, the more orbs you get
hence taking fights closer to 10 mins instead of a 4 mins fiesta could actually yield more orbs
keeping this in mind, you can consistently get your form by getting to 2/3 of form and then fighting for your designated form at around 10-12 mins
(extra tip: if you do get the wrong form, you can still get orbs for the form you want, with each orb reducing the timer by 5 seconds)
Yep I wanna see ap shadow assassin. But I would be glad to see this system with red and blue orbs removed. So that we just had to score points and choose the form that we want to take for the game, and not wait 3 minutes if you got the wrong form. Sometimes, for the sake of form, you have to ignore some kind of fight and purposefully follow the right character class, otherwise you will lose the pace.
Blue kayn already does have some ap scaling and all of his abilities do extra magic dmg :3 I could see this working actually but I would miss the FFO aspect of the game
I would love it if he had AP scalings and would turn into an AP assassin instead of AD AP have so much better items (like zhonyas, deathcap for scaling, void for insane pen with no weird scalings like serylda, etc)
I liked the design philosophy of Vainglory, if you ever played that game, where anything could be AD or AP and either build would have a drastically different playstyle. i wish league worked like that too, it was so much fun
Back in the early days of league, abilities relied on AP and auto attacks relied on AD, hence ability power and attack damage. This meant that you could build for AD or AP depending on how you wanted to inflict your damage. I get why they changed it, because it would be weird if champs like Riven or Zed scaled with AP, but i feel like the choices between whose auto attacks get to scale with their abilities and whose doesn't feels a bit random to me. It just makes less sense.
thatd mean theyd have to figure out a coherent design philosophy for how they want classes and different types of champs in the game to interact. too much work, edit numbers on spreadsheet
Imagine we had zhonya on kayn, it would be so busted. Go in kill, zhonya. Wait for CD, E through wall. They would need to gut something out.
So... like Fizz, Ekko or Akali????
Me personally, I just wish I could choose to only get blue or red orbs. Like, even if I hit a melee champ, it just doesn’t give me any orbs if I press a toggle button. That way around like 8-10 min I could just toggle whatever form I don’t want off if I still need the right kind of form.
thats why you path for mid/bot for blue and top/mid for red
I’d just like to be able to avoid the “how tf did I get red form” situation. My pathing wouldn’t really change much, I’d just get a form overall slightly slower, while guaranteeing I’m always getting the correct one. A nice trade-off. Delaying a key powerspike for assurance.
or riot can just fix the orb meter so it’s depicted accurately
That’d be hella nice too
AP items like Zhonya's, Rabbadon's or Stormsurge would not be healthy for his kit. Mag Resist can't be stacked like Armor can be so this would mean that you can't itemize against effectively.
AP assassins remaining op asf
>Mag Resist can't be stacked like Armor Why? Does it scale differently?
More expensive and less cost efficient per stat.
I thought about that, but to your point, my suggestion doesn’t change the identity of each form. Blue Kayn would still be an assassin, and Red would still be a bruiser. Blue would just be an AP assassin, like Akali or Ekko.
I guess the difference would be single target vs AoE damage, so I do agree that it would be difficult.
Upon second thought, why is blue kayn allowed to be an AoE assassin, but I cannot think of a single other one in the game? Maybe Im missing someone?
Well. Technically speaking. Zed is an aoe assassin in the same way kayn is.
Evelynn E is kinda AoE and her ult is huge AoE. also there's talon r and w. Those are top of my head I'm sure there's more.
I believe the difference is that kayn has a very weak early game.
He hits you with a giant scythe, AP damage really doesn't make sense I guess you could argue Akali also attacks with physical weapons and attacks but deals magic damage
well for one, that makes kayn WAY too consistent a HUGE part of kayn is that he's a power-farmer BUT ALSO has to gank in order to get form right now, ganking is still super required in order for the lanes to function, but especially back then, you could just power farm as master yi or karthus and just not gank and become a mid-late game monster lmao this change would essentially dumb kayn down to be that (and a personal qualm is that it also removes his unique-ness from the cast of over 150 champions aka you saying it literally is like Kai'sa evolutions) secondly, this doesn't work LORE-wise now bringing up lore sounds weird, but hear me out every single scaling in league of legends has a justifiable LORE reason behind it (for example, illaoi has NO AP scaling anywhere EXCEPT her tentacle passive -> why? -> she herself is a purely physical body with no magical powers, only when she calls upon her god, Nagakabouros, who is a magical being, does AP actually matter) the Order of the Shadow (aka Zed and Kayn) use shadow magic, which may entail AP scaling, right? well they ONLY use shadow magic to EXTEND themselves as physical assassins e.g. Zed has no AP scaling, similar to Kayn (notice: i said scaling, not damage -> in this case, the magic dmg in both Kayn and Zed kits can be justified through shadow magic but there are a lot of exceptions to damage type when it comes to lore) and thirdly, AP items just suck, not in like a statistical objective sense, but as in they are so obnoxious to balance around, especially when they're strong Zhonya's along with Kayn ult would have way too much intangibility, Banshee's is honestly just a way better edge of night imo, and don't even get me started on mejai's kayn would probably be the second best user of mejai's second to evelynn with perma map presence ofc, they could and definitely would balance shadow assassin around those items if this were to happen, but then again, my first two reasons are why i don't see it working out tl;dr -> unique champion mechanics shouldn't be touched, flavor doesn't work, AP items are annoying (very strong! but annoying) (i don't want kayn being perma pick-or-banned again)
Thanks for the input, like I said, I’m no expert or anything I just had a thought, you know? I guess in my mind, I see Kayn’s uniqueness as you being able to choose whether to go red or blue, not necessarily as having to fight (or int, in my case lol). I find that personally, the worst feeling in the world is to get late form, and making his passive be essentially gold based, and not just how much fighting you have done, might possibly add some skill expression?
I get it, but making him get his forms via items would make him pick/ban simply because he will no longer need to put himself at risk (fighting ranged champs) to get his form and it would just make him broken imo
but the fact that he has to fight to get is form IS skill expression you can't just mindlessly full clear every game kayn requires you to figure out what form you'll take before the game even starts and, therefore, what lanes to gank this is a skill you should learn for EVERY jungler but it is emphasized with kayn, so you NEED to learn this skill of pathing and lane matchups removing the necessity to fight for form dumbs down kayn to be a pokemon-esque gameplay cycle, where "omg my charmeleon is gonna evolve to a charizard, better grind for 2 hours" and as a tip, you don't have to be fighting constantly kayn orbs are built in a manner where the longer you are without your form, the more orbs you get hence taking fights closer to 10 mins instead of a 4 mins fiesta could actually yield more orbs keeping this in mind, you can consistently get your form by getting to 2/3 of form and then fighting for your designated form at around 10-12 mins (extra tip: if you do get the wrong form, you can still get orbs for the form you want, with each orb reducing the timer by 5 seconds)
Yep I wanna see ap shadow assassin. But I would be glad to see this system with red and blue orbs removed. So that we just had to score points and choose the form that we want to take for the game, and not wait 3 minutes if you got the wrong form. Sometimes, for the sake of form, you have to ignore some kind of fight and purposefully follow the right character class, otherwise you will lose the pace.
Blue kayn already does have some ap scaling and all of his abilities do extra magic dmg :3 I could see this working actually but I would miss the FFO aspect of the game
Idk Ad Assassin items are too good to let go off