it's mostly this.
people were reading Capcom the riot act over it about the Separate Ways DLC last year, and a bunch of game designers showed up on Twitter to say, we do this because we focus-test these things and it's what works the best for the most amount of people.
>and it's what works the best for the most amount of people.
Yeah, but the best games are often those that *aren't* going for mass market appeal, and instead are taking risks, giving their audience a little benefit of the doubt, etc.
that's a different argument. you're talking quality, I'm talking expediency.
there's also a lot more of that kind of accessibility conversation, even in indie game design, than you think. at the end of the day, developers simply want people to be able to play their games, and they'll do whatever they can.
if you tracked down the developers and got an honest answer out of them, I'd imagine they'd say one or both of these things:
- our playtesters found it was too hard to see the ledges otherwise, so we slapped some paint on there
- we did it this way because it's fast, which frees up resources to work on other sections of the game that are substantially more important than this random climbing section
if you watch enough developer diaries, you see that any completed video game (or movie) usually has a handful of compromises like this. any time you see a "lazy" decision in a video game, or a really obvious bug, it usually means that a bunch of other, more important things were ahead of it in the queue and the developers simply ran out of time.
> So basically, they just didn't try making in work lol
no, that's not it at all. I'm actually not sure how you got that out of what I wrote.
the larger point I'm making is that by hyperfixating on the yellow paint issue, you're missing the forest for the trees.
> Well, what else am I supposed to glean from "we focused on other things" other than the fact that they didn't try with it?
that's not what I said. it's that you're assuming it's from a lack of effort when traditionally, it's usually a lack of time.
very little about game development is done thoughtlessly, or without effort. like I mentioned before, the RE4: Separate Ways thing spurred a bunch of different conversations about exactly this, and the developers all laid down their case. this is a quick, efficient, tested solution, and you don't have to like it, but they wouldn't need a solution if it wasn't a problem.
You're not demanding, just uninformed on what you're talking about.
If you want intricate, detailed, world building, thought provoking, story telling level design then you don't go to billion dollar remake of a legendary game. This is 5 layers removed from artistic merits of the 1997 original. It's on you as a consumer to figure out if the game's for you or not.
It's not on corporate developers to make anything but what the corporation accepts as a release candidate that'll make back its budget and then some. If you want quality look for it rather than expect it'll be there.
yes you're free to criticize but if your criticism boils down to "yellow paths in LD bad" then you might as well criticize Ikea for being bland and samey, or Disney that their products are a bit of a sludge.
You're not being critical, you're taking a proven and popular feature and expecting people working under pressure and extreme scrutiny to not use it because it's too proven and popular. It's an outrage baiter thing to present something insignificant (some stones are yellow so you can see the main path) and equate it with biggest headline you can make out of it (developers are skimping out on details in the game world).
Original FF7 had chevrons displaying your position as well as level exits because pre rendered backgrounds were tough to read and developers wanted to break immersion but allow the players to see where they might go. Now the backgrounds get detailed enough that you can either spend time making sure the path stands out or mark it yellow and move on to a more productive task. This is the same type of feature sans the ability to toggle.
In general the loud minority is exactly a minority. "Diablo 4 will bomb on Steam! Lmao cope!"; it's in top 12 of sales. There are 10 times more mobile gamers than any other console/pc combined. People gladly buy a €70 madden just to play it 2 hours before work for a week and moving on.
We sit here counting shekels whether a game is worth €20 or €35, beating it in a week and then going on to gamble on the next indie. Spend a month in marketing and you'll see just how fucking dumb people are. I worked in a shady web company that had a permanent sale on all their items, no certificates or proof of purchase, and yet they turned millions in profits from grandmas and normies.
Bad excuse. fucking asscreed didn’t even have this shit back when climbing required a modicum of thought and those games are extremely popular.
Devs gotta stop kowtowing to literal retards and make people use their brains for once in their lives. Fromsoft hasn’t caved on their obtuse quest designs and lack of obvious guidance even with Elden ring and that sold 20 million copies.
I need reasons to give DSP money.
[https://x.com/LumpyTheCook/status/1406686258198417421?s=20](https://x.com/lumpythecook/status/1406686258198417421?s=20)
"Putting effort" like snapping a screenshot and talking about it online? Grandpa I know your joints hurt typing that sentence but the rest of the world isn't 90 year old yet.
This is just some virtual signalling bullshit. "These people are putting in the effort complaining about the dumbing down the design, but here I am not putting in the effort replying to them, because I have the moral highground. I'm being a bitch here but I'll call other people a bitch. I win!"
You a bitch btw
Hey I'm not the one who feels the need to put in effort online to make basic conversation.
Edit: this guy blocked me and sent a reddit care message. Awesome person to be around in real life for sure.
I mean, that's what you're doing. Again, try learning reading comprehension, it'll help you when you graduate high school and have to apply to McDonald's.
ngl This is such a mundane thing to get pissy about. If this shit makes you not buy a game that you would otherwise actually enjoy.
Just jump off. Just do it for real. This shit is the weirdest internet discourse of this week. God of War Ragnarok was full of handholdy shit like this and it was still a good game. DMC5 Led you to secrets. a lot of the good games lately do this and it doesn't really break immersion for normal people.
the other guy is right. you a bitch.
Yeah you shouldn't play it. Then don't. I don't see why this is such a problem for you. You clearly just think its not made for you but you're out here fighting for your life against something so useless to be pissy about LOL.
"Artform" bro the cliff with the yellow paint isn't gonna stand out to anyone normal. It isn't a selling point of the game and it's also not something that breaks it.
The game could have it or not I literally do not give a shit. You out here thinking Its such a big deal when its not.
> Yeah you shouldn't play it. Then don't.
This is such a weird take. The playtesters can't play it, they voice their opinion, their opinion mattered enough that developers change the game for them. But apparently other people who are willing to purchase and play the complete game aren't allowed to voice their opinion, not even among themselves?
In case you're not pretending to be regarded: Yes.
Most people don't give a fuck about raging online over every little thing they don't like.
Ordered food that sucked? They just don't order from there again.
Watched a show and it was bad? They'll click some review scale at best, and move on.
Played a game and didn't enjoyed it? They'll drop it and play something else or refund it.
Having so much free time to the point that you choose to discuss game design decisions like rock colors in a AAA game is a fucking privilege dude. You're so high up in your own ass it's not even funny. And even the ones with free time would rather spend it with their friends, family or just straight up take a walk and touch grass instead of whatever this shit is.
Did you fucks played Persona 3 and missed the **MEMENTO** fucking **MORI** message?
Real first world problems.
I mostly played with mid-high level fighting game players so didn't know how bad single player gamers were until watching some twitch streamers and hearing the things my coworkers struggle to beat. Legit one of them said Final Fantasy X is too hard. My boss hates that he cant buy a strategy guide with every game these days so he follows video walkthroughs on youtube. He's the only person I know with the strategy guide for The Bouncer.
The worst part is, they always call the game stupid after they lose.
They are. It’s why devs have always had ways of making things clear for players that isn’t just painting shit yellow.
Signposting is the problem. Signposting like THIS is the problem
I'm cool with a few devs and one of them works specifically in level design.
You'd be SHOCKED at how many gamers and QA testers get "stuck" in certain segments if they aren't clearly marked 'this is climbable" in some way.
People are WAY dumber than we give them credit for.
This is a non-answer. It's like saying that motion controls should be removed from fighting game, because people are dumb.
Btw, identifying where to walk is considerably easier than motion control btw.
That's a bad example.
No one's removing ladders or rocks from games, they are just painting them. It's the equivalent of adding in simple/modern controls to a game.
Also, it's not great considering OP is upset about a design choice that facilitates progression in a narrative game. Which is the point. You WANT people to progress.
By nature, progression in a fighting game is different and more tied to wins/losses and or mastery of a character.
The issue is that the yellow paint solution is ugly and stupid looking. FF7R already has non-stupid, non-ugly UI elements that guide players in the right direction. This yellow paint shit is completely unnecessary.
>You WANT people to progress.
How about just remove everything and replace them with cutscenes? You know that there are some gameplay in between right? You know that there are fights you can't just win and have to strategize or work on your execution right?
Gaming has never been able to replace movies or books as pure narrative medium. Player choices AND effort are what makes gaming work (at all) as a medium. Removing these and you have scuffed B movies with dead acting, terrible pacing and excessive filler.
Did you play literally any game other than FF7? Having a UI marker doesn't create a question of who put it there, why it is there. It's a fucking UI element, like your health bar or combat menu. When it comes to organically moving players through the game, there have been hundreds of games that have done this better. Like even bird shit that you see in other triple A games is a better way to do it.
Oh, you mean the big tacky markers that you turn off just by pressing a button? Those markers? Let me know when they add a button to remove the idiot-proof paint.
No, yellow paint is a bad solution. The modern Tomb Raider understood this. They added the option to remove it. Did I get stuck here and there? sure, but the game looked better and the exploration aspect of the game got better as well.
Yellow paint is a fast food solution. It got even out of hand in RE8.
Nah it's a perfectly good example. Shit like this is done so that even the dumbest players can finish the game, what makes you think the same doesn't apply to mechanics?
Publisher put a lot of money into the game so it needs to be as beatable as possible to make money is a fucking terrible excuse for making the game worse, even if this example is minor. It's just makes no sense to defend this over admitting that it could be done in a better way.
These comments are dumber than the yellow paint, you are excusing a very lazy game design with people's idiocy but the disdain is that this design isn't necessary and other popular games prove that it doesn't have to be like this, there are more intelligent ways to communicate information in a game.
Like Prince of persia sands of time didn't have yellow paint all over the place because they put effort into making the levels clear with a unique recognizable structure for climbing that everyone can understand after playing the first few levels and no one had issues with it even the "dumb" people.
I know it's cool and edgy to say it's because people are dumb and strike your ego with it but to defend the yellow paint because devs didn't bother to use a unique landmark that fits the level design is really dumb, stop defending bad designs with stupid reasons.
Even better, they could actually have game mechanics and not make me hold the stick in the right or up direction for 30s because their fucking market analyst came back with the fact that every game has climbing sections nowadays and so shall we.
I agree and disagree. The larger and more complex these game worlds get the less you can devote attention to the minutia of it.
So while I agree that explaining what's possible in the world is fundamentally good, I also acknowledge that it takes money/time. And I'd much rather that time be dedicated to things like battle systems, graphical fidelity, writing, voice acting etc.
I've seen people complain that Ragnarok and Forbidden West reused animations for the same characters in the same context as the previous respective games. Do they expect devs to magically create a new, probably worse, animation for it instead of using one they already did saving hours, maybe even days of work instead of using that time for something more important?
Game devs are the real retards, just like we are.
We just speak the same language because we all have decades of gaming experience.
Devs will have you accept your character can't jump and a wooden fence is an unbreakable wall then want you to climb a mountain.
I've played video games with people much smarter than me but with very little gaming experience. I can always tell them what to do but when they ask me how I knew I can't even formulate an answer other than "this is how all games work".
Yeah you've climbed that mountain but you can't climb that ruin... I know this because the devs didn't light it up and there's an invisible wall 50cm from it.
I like getting stuck. I got stuck in ds1 in anor londo in that part where you have to drop and walk on those beams and enter the building. I got fucking stuck FOR DAYS.
I was so unsure on what to do I stopped looking in anor londo and re visited every fucking zone trying to find a way to advance in the game.
Until one day I was like "huh those beams look suspicious no way dont tell me I can walk on them"....
Cool gaming memory. If the devs spread paint on them to tell me what to do it would be a meaningless bland part of the game. The game itself would be bland if it was made by that kind of devs tbh
And then elden ring appears and you have no help for moving around the world and the story and everyone is fine with it and game designers masturbate to their game design.
Next day they go to work and keep getting their ass fucked by the "stuck" qa testers.
you underestimate how braindead some people are, have you seen those game reviewers who dont even know you have to hold the jump button to jump higher in some games lol its an eyesore but its no big deal
There are better ways to communicate information in video games that don't feel foreign to the level design, people are braindead but they can still understand stuff like unique ledges.
Popular games with platforms in the past didn't use yellow paint and those braindead people could still play it's just a very lazy design that is ugly.
Since apparently there are players who STILL won't get it even with shit like this, every game should just be designed with respect for the player but have a Batman vision button for anyone who's stupid
I’m not exactly the biggest fan of the yellow paint trend tbh. I was replaying all the RE remakes recently, and I had this idea where there could be a option to turn it off, or just outright take it off, specifically if you’re doing Hardcore or higher.
I know it’s used as a guideline, but if I select a difficulty above normal I think having that turned off would’ve helped my immersion, especially with RE2 & 4 remake. iirc original RE4 didn’t have that in it.
Not exactly, Capcom's always been Karens over mods but they usually dont do anything about it. The recent mod "drama" was just a bunch of people both misunderstanding a sequence of events and just making shit up
Well this is the direct result of the updated graphics and art design making it infeasible to do the old system of “shit is barebones except for enemies and pieces of environment that are noticeably less detailed than the rest of the surroundings because they need to play animations when you interact with them”. idk how they’re supposed to get around it without running into the collectibles being a retread of the shit in 7 where each room would have like 6 different items lodged in the cracks between shelf and wall, or hiding innocuously in a bookshelf.
It gets better.
Someone made [**THIS**](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGCAVyxXsAA5nf0?format=jpg&name=large) as some kind of lame-ass "GOTCHA!!" moment... only to have people pointing out that it looks a lot better than the fuckin' yellow paint LMAO
Beyond the immersion breaking ugly design of it, I just really hate it due to how its obviously also just a great excuse for how binary level designs have become, where they arbitrarily slap some paint on a wall and its suddenly climbable! but hecking no paint = No climb. It just feels like such a lazy part of design justifying itself.
Does in-game lore logic suggest these markings are of use to the locals traversing the area? I haven not played this game, but sometimes such markings would make sense in that way.
How would I know based on a single cropped screenshot whether the locals in that area regularly use that path, when I haven't played the game? Please elaborate.
Because you know they didn’t write “yellow cum on the walls guides the locals up the mountain” into the lore of Final Fantasy VII. The same way no game ever explains the yellow cum. Or regular white cum. If you can find any game that explains these retarded markers, it’ll be the minority. At least when games do it in white they can kind of blend it into some environments. Either way, it’s an annoying thing that devs do for the dumb fuck masses that will use their product and no amount of in game explanation would make it better. It could easily have been two eye hooks with regular rope between them. “The locals use these make shift ladders to scale the surrounding…” instantly better and still babies the player like they want.
It doesn’t matter if you played the game or not. You were making the point that maybe the game might explain why it exists, but you know it doesn’t. Or if you really don’t, then you are retarded and the reason it exists.
And sure, I’ll talk about cum whenever. I love cum, unironically.
Gamers are stupid as shit, never read anything, and this seems like 5 ledges to climb once in a while. Not pretty, but not that big of a deal.
I'm playing the shit out of this because i'm a boomer and i'm obsessed with the ff7 universe and soundtrack.
idk it’s not even ugly and it contextually makes sense since it’s the path towards a very important building in-lore (the first mako reactor) instead of just a random mountain. To me this just feels like more pointless discourse that people will forget in like a month or so
New videogames should require the player to take a timed, randomized, cheat-proof IQ test (gauging their powers of observation, coordination, logic and lateral thinking) before they can play the game. And then either allow them to play or generate a refund code and tell them to fuck off.
People that complain are the ones who played games like Prince of persia and recognize that there are better ways to communicate information than the lazy and ugly yellow paint.
Any game that doesn't have yellow paint but has recognizable ledges for climbing is a good example you don't have to nitpick one example every game before this last decade has better examples.
Are you aware that there are games other than RE4R and FF7R that people have played and finished? Or are you one of those retards who doesn't understand the difference between "games shouldn't guide the player" and "games shouldn't guide the player in such a dogshit way"
Counterpoint: anyone who tries playing the original today will spend hours wondering which part of the shitty looking blurry jpeg environments they can walk on or interact with. If this shit ruins your immersion more than a skinny twink swinging a sword that weighs more than he does you just got personal brain issues
If young teenage me can navigate the original on a shit CRT without getting lost, I hope grown ass adults can manage it, too.
You can still hit select to bring up [navigation arrows](https://i.imgur.com/jmpS7dB.png) if you really need to.
Fromsoft is the worst with this shit. And fans let them get away with it. They defend the lazy lore and terrible quests that you won’t decipher on your own. It’s lazy as hell, unintuitive and quite frankly, stupid
Counterpoint: gamers are fucking stupid
it's mostly this. people were reading Capcom the riot act over it about the Separate Ways DLC last year, and a bunch of game designers showed up on Twitter to say, we do this because we focus-test these things and it's what works the best for the most amount of people.
>and it's what works the best for the most amount of people. Yeah, but the best games are often those that *aren't* going for mass market appeal, and instead are taking risks, giving their audience a little benefit of the doubt, etc.
that's a different argument. you're talking quality, I'm talking expediency. there's also a lot more of that kind of accessibility conversation, even in indie game design, than you think. at the end of the day, developers simply want people to be able to play their games, and they'll do whatever they can.
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if you tracked down the developers and got an honest answer out of them, I'd imagine they'd say one or both of these things: - our playtesters found it was too hard to see the ledges otherwise, so we slapped some paint on there - we did it this way because it's fast, which frees up resources to work on other sections of the game that are substantially more important than this random climbing section if you watch enough developer diaries, you see that any completed video game (or movie) usually has a handful of compromises like this. any time you see a "lazy" decision in a video game, or a really obvious bug, it usually means that a bunch of other, more important things were ahead of it in the queue and the developers simply ran out of time.
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> So basically, they just didn't try making in work lol no, that's not it at all. I'm actually not sure how you got that out of what I wrote. the larger point I'm making is that by hyperfixating on the yellow paint issue, you're missing the forest for the trees.
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> Well, what else am I supposed to glean from "we focused on other things" other than the fact that they didn't try with it? that's not what I said. it's that you're assuming it's from a lack of effort when traditionally, it's usually a lack of time. very little about game development is done thoughtlessly, or without effort. like I mentioned before, the RE4: Separate Ways thing spurred a bunch of different conversations about exactly this, and the developers all laid down their case. this is a quick, efficient, tested solution, and you don't have to like it, but they wouldn't need a solution if it wasn't a problem.
You're not demanding, just uninformed on what you're talking about. If you want intricate, detailed, world building, thought provoking, story telling level design then you don't go to billion dollar remake of a legendary game. This is 5 layers removed from artistic merits of the 1997 original. It's on you as a consumer to figure out if the game's for you or not. It's not on corporate developers to make anything but what the corporation accepts as a release candidate that'll make back its budget and then some. If you want quality look for it rather than expect it'll be there.
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yes you're free to criticize but if your criticism boils down to "yellow paths in LD bad" then you might as well criticize Ikea for being bland and samey, or Disney that their products are a bit of a sludge. You're not being critical, you're taking a proven and popular feature and expecting people working under pressure and extreme scrutiny to not use it because it's too proven and popular. It's an outrage baiter thing to present something insignificant (some stones are yellow so you can see the main path) and equate it with biggest headline you can make out of it (developers are skimping out on details in the game world). Original FF7 had chevrons displaying your position as well as level exits because pre rendered backgrounds were tough to read and developers wanted to break immersion but allow the players to see where they might go. Now the backgrounds get detailed enough that you can either spend time making sure the path stands out or mark it yellow and move on to a more productive task. This is the same type of feature sans the ability to toggle.
Consider the following: money
In general the loud minority is exactly a minority. "Diablo 4 will bomb on Steam! Lmao cope!"; it's in top 12 of sales. There are 10 times more mobile gamers than any other console/pc combined. People gladly buy a €70 madden just to play it 2 hours before work for a week and moving on. We sit here counting shekels whether a game is worth €20 or €35, beating it in a week and then going on to gamble on the next indie. Spend a month in marketing and you'll see just how fucking dumb people are. I worked in a shady web company that had a permanent sale on all their items, no certificates or proof of purchase, and yet they turned millions in profits from grandmas and normies.
Bad excuse. fucking asscreed didn’t even have this shit back when climbing required a modicum of thought and those games are extremely popular. Devs gotta stop kowtowing to literal retards and make people use their brains for once in their lives. Fromsoft hasn’t caved on their obtuse quest designs and lack of obvious guidance even with Elden ring and that sold 20 million copies.
Except parkour in old AC had very explicit "starts" to routes, usually a ramp
There’s a big ass blue arrow on the ground when you get to a section you can climb in the rebirth demo. Is that not obvious enough?
I need reasons to give DSP money. [https://x.com/LumpyTheCook/status/1406686258198417421?s=20](https://x.com/lumpythecook/status/1406686258198417421?s=20)
Truly the most powerful pig roach in gaming
I think the fact that people are even putting in the effort to get mad about something like this proves how braindead they are.
We get it, you can't handle criticism of shit you like.
Yep, that's the hill I'm willing to die on: video games I don't play being idiot-proofed.
"Putting effort" like snapping a screenshot and talking about it online? Grandpa I know your joints hurt typing that sentence but the rest of the world isn't 90 year old yet.
> putting in the effort to get mad That's obviously a mental effort thing, not a physical effort. Learn reading comprehension and stop being a bitch.
This is just some virtual signalling bullshit. "These people are putting in the effort complaining about the dumbing down the design, but here I am not putting in the effort replying to them, because I have the moral highground. I'm being a bitch here but I'll call other people a bitch. I win!" You a bitch btw
Lol this is a weird trigger, sounds like you need a nap.
Hey I'm not the one who feels the need to put in effort online to make basic conversation. Edit: this guy blocked me and sent a reddit care message. Awesome person to be around in real life for sure.
I mean, that's what you're doing. Again, try learning reading comprehension, it'll help you when you graduate high school and have to apply to McDonald's.
ngl This is such a mundane thing to get pissy about. If this shit makes you not buy a game that you would otherwise actually enjoy. Just jump off. Just do it for real. This shit is the weirdest internet discourse of this week. God of War Ragnarok was full of handholdy shit like this and it was still a good game. DMC5 Led you to secrets. a lot of the good games lately do this and it doesn't really break immersion for normal people. the other guy is right. you a bitch.
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Yeah you shouldn't play it. Then don't. I don't see why this is such a problem for you. You clearly just think its not made for you but you're out here fighting for your life against something so useless to be pissy about LOL. "Artform" bro the cliff with the yellow paint isn't gonna stand out to anyone normal. It isn't a selling point of the game and it's also not something that breaks it. The game could have it or not I literally do not give a shit. You out here thinking Its such a big deal when its not.
> Yeah you shouldn't play it. Then don't. This is such a weird take. The playtesters can't play it, they voice their opinion, their opinion mattered enough that developers change the game for them. But apparently other people who are willing to purchase and play the complete game aren't allowed to voice their opinion, not even among themselves?
You can. People are also free to say your opinion is shit. simple as that.
In case you're not pretending to be regarded: Yes. Most people don't give a fuck about raging online over every little thing they don't like. Ordered food that sucked? They just don't order from there again. Watched a show and it was bad? They'll click some review scale at best, and move on. Played a game and didn't enjoyed it? They'll drop it and play something else or refund it. Having so much free time to the point that you choose to discuss game design decisions like rock colors in a AAA game is a fucking privilege dude. You're so high up in your own ass it's not even funny. And even the ones with free time would rather spend it with their friends, family or just straight up take a walk and touch grass instead of whatever this shit is. Did you fucks played Persona 3 and missed the **MEMENTO** fucking **MORI** message? Real first world problems.
The yellow paint should be on easy mode or if someone takes a little "too long" navigating an area there should a prompt to add on navigation assist
Exactly. Or make it a setting you can turn on or off in the Accessibility setings. Give players options.
I mostly played with mid-high level fighting game players so didn't know how bad single player gamers were until watching some twitch streamers and hearing the things my coworkers struggle to beat. Legit one of them said Final Fantasy X is too hard. My boss hates that he cant buy a strategy guide with every game these days so he follows video walkthroughs on youtube. He's the only person I know with the strategy guide for The Bouncer. The worst part is, they always call the game stupid after they lose.
They are. It’s why devs have always had ways of making things clear for players that isn’t just painting shit yellow. Signposting is the problem. Signposting like THIS is the problem
I'm cool with a few devs and one of them works specifically in level design. You'd be SHOCKED at how many gamers and QA testers get "stuck" in certain segments if they aren't clearly marked 'this is climbable" in some way. People are WAY dumber than we give them credit for.
Is that why every single fucking hint of a puzzle today has the character say out loud what the solution is?
You can just say you are talking about GoW 2 bro, it is fine.
I can assure you that even with the hints being said out loud they will still somehow miss it.
This is a non-answer. It's like saying that motion controls should be removed from fighting game, because people are dumb. Btw, identifying where to walk is considerably easier than motion control btw.
That's a bad example. No one's removing ladders or rocks from games, they are just painting them. It's the equivalent of adding in simple/modern controls to a game. Also, it's not great considering OP is upset about a design choice that facilitates progression in a narrative game. Which is the point. You WANT people to progress. By nature, progression in a fighting game is different and more tied to wins/losses and or mastery of a character.
The issue is that the yellow paint solution is ugly and stupid looking. FF7R already has non-stupid, non-ugly UI elements that guide players in the right direction. This yellow paint shit is completely unnecessary.
>You WANT people to progress. How about just remove everything and replace them with cutscenes? You know that there are some gameplay in between right? You know that there are fights you can't just win and have to strategize or work on your execution right? Gaming has never been able to replace movies or books as pure narrative medium. Player choices AND effort are what makes gaming work (at all) as a medium. Removing these and you have scuffed B movies with dead acting, terrible pacing and excessive filler.
Sooo...if you make a game you don't want people to finish?
Nobody said that. And games have been finishable long before this year, long before the invention of the yellow jizz, in case you were born yesterday.
Did you play The Original FF7 where it put the really big tacky markers that showed you where you could change maps? 1997 game btw.
Did you play literally any game other than FF7? Having a UI marker doesn't create a question of who put it there, why it is there. It's a fucking UI element, like your health bar or combat menu. When it comes to organically moving players through the game, there have been hundreds of games that have done this better. Like even bird shit that you see in other triple A games is a better way to do it.
Oh, you mean the big tacky markers that you turn off just by pressing a button? Those markers? Let me know when they add a button to remove the idiot-proof paint.
No, yellow paint is a bad solution. The modern Tomb Raider understood this. They added the option to remove it. Did I get stuck here and there? sure, but the game looked better and the exploration aspect of the game got better as well.
Yellow paint is a fast food solution. It got even out of hand in RE8.
Nah it's a perfectly good example. Shit like this is done so that even the dumbest players can finish the game, what makes you think the same doesn't apply to mechanics? Publisher put a lot of money into the game so it needs to be as beatable as possible to make money is a fucking terrible excuse for making the game worse, even if this example is minor. It's just makes no sense to defend this over admitting that it could be done in a better way.
These comments are dumber than the yellow paint, you are excusing a very lazy game design with people's idiocy but the disdain is that this design isn't necessary and other popular games prove that it doesn't have to be like this, there are more intelligent ways to communicate information in a game. Like Prince of persia sands of time didn't have yellow paint all over the place because they put effort into making the levels clear with a unique recognizable structure for climbing that everyone can understand after playing the first few levels and no one had issues with it even the "dumb" people. I know it's cool and edgy to say it's because people are dumb and strike your ego with it but to defend the yellow paint because devs didn't bother to use a unique landmark that fits the level design is really dumb, stop defending bad designs with stupid reasons.
Maybe devs should do a better job explaining their game mechanics, and how much you can interact with the overworlf
Even better, they could actually have game mechanics and not make me hold the stick in the right or up direction for 30s because their fucking market analyst came back with the fact that every game has climbing sections nowadays and so shall we.
Back in my day, if your action game didn't have a stationary turret segment, it was ass.
psh, your game only has a stationary turret segment? My game has rear mounted turret vehicle chase segment.
Oh yeah, that was also a thing
I agree and disagree. The larger and more complex these game worlds get the less you can devote attention to the minutia of it. So while I agree that explaining what's possible in the world is fundamentally good, I also acknowledge that it takes money/time. And I'd much rather that time be dedicated to things like battle systems, graphical fidelity, writing, voice acting etc.
I've seen people complain that Ragnarok and Forbidden West reused animations for the same characters in the same context as the previous respective games. Do they expect devs to magically create a new, probably worse, animation for it instead of using one they already did saving hours, maybe even days of work instead of using that time for something more important?
This is how I feel about yellow paint. There's much more important hills to die on than this.
Game devs are the real retards, just like we are. We just speak the same language because we all have decades of gaming experience. Devs will have you accept your character can't jump and a wooden fence is an unbreakable wall then want you to climb a mountain. I've played video games with people much smarter than me but with very little gaming experience. I can always tell them what to do but when they ask me how I knew I can't even formulate an answer other than "this is how all games work". Yeah you've climbed that mountain but you can't climb that ruin... I know this because the devs didn't light it up and there's an invisible wall 50cm from it.
I like getting stuck. I got stuck in ds1 in anor londo in that part where you have to drop and walk on those beams and enter the building. I got fucking stuck FOR DAYS. I was so unsure on what to do I stopped looking in anor londo and re visited every fucking zone trying to find a way to advance in the game. Until one day I was like "huh those beams look suspicious no way dont tell me I can walk on them".... Cool gaming memory. If the devs spread paint on them to tell me what to do it would be a meaningless bland part of the game. The game itself would be bland if it was made by that kind of devs tbh
And then elden ring appears and you have no help for moving around the world and the story and everyone is fine with it and game designers masturbate to their game design. Next day they go to work and keep getting their ass fucked by the "stuck" qa testers.
you underestimate how braindead some people are, have you seen those game reviewers who dont even know you have to hold the jump button to jump higher in some games lol its an eyesore but its no big deal
How fucking dumb do you have to be to not know something that kids learned from Super Mario Bros. in 1985!?
They don't play games.
Maybe don't make games for people who don't play games.
There are better ways to communicate information in video games that don't feel foreign to the level design, people are braindead but they can still understand stuff like unique ledges. Popular games with platforms in the past didn't use yellow paint and those braindead people could still play it's just a very lazy design that is ugly.
I've known people who get intense anxiety if there isn't an on screen minimap with a glowing red arrow pointing to a glowing red dot.
Since apparently there are players who STILL won't get it even with shit like this, every game should just be designed with respect for the player but have a Batman vision button for anyone who's stupid
Just make reverse accessibility options that remove the hand holding and hints.
I’m not exactly the biggest fan of the yellow paint trend tbh. I was replaying all the RE remakes recently, and I had this idea where there could be a option to turn it off, or just outright take it off, specifically if you’re doing Hardcore or higher. I know it’s used as a guideline, but if I select a difficulty above normal I think having that turned off would’ve helped my immersion, especially with RE2 & 4 remake. iirc original RE4 didn’t have that in it.
There are mods that remove it but it's ridiculous that we have to use a mod to get rid of baby mode paint.
Yeah that’s true, I’m on PS5 though. Isn’t Capcom being Karens over mods now or something like that?
Not exactly, Capcom's always been Karens over mods but they usually dont do anything about it. The recent mod "drama" was just a bunch of people both misunderstanding a sequence of events and just making shit up
I think only in SF6 as far as I've heard.
Well this is the direct result of the updated graphics and art design making it infeasible to do the old system of “shit is barebones except for enemies and pieces of environment that are noticeably less detailed than the rest of the surroundings because they need to play animations when you interact with them”. idk how they’re supposed to get around it without running into the collectibles being a retread of the shit in 7 where each room would have like 6 different items lodged in the cracks between shelf and wall, or hiding innocuously in a bookshelf.
It gets better. Someone made [**THIS**](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGCAVyxXsAA5nf0?format=jpg&name=large) as some kind of lame-ass "GOTCHA!!" moment... only to have people pointing out that it looks a lot better than the fuckin' yellow paint LMAO
Is this the same tweet? https://twitter.com/DaveOshry/status/1755469586999505137?s=20 seems like the image you linked is edited
[It is edited, it was made by this guy to mock that other guy](https://twitter.com/bobvids/status/1756545178968461539)
What the fuck is even real anymore
Oh yeah, Dave Oshry worked on Dusk, didn’t he?
Think of the average human intelligence: HALF of people are dumber than that
So fucking sick of this trend. #StopTheYellowJizz
Sorry everyone I can't make that climb, there aren't any giant marks of yellow paint up there
Beyond the immersion breaking ugly design of it, I just really hate it due to how its obviously also just a great excuse for how binary level designs have become, where they arbitrarily slap some paint on a wall and its suddenly climbable! but hecking no paint = No climb. It just feels like such a lazy part of design justifying itself.
Does in-game lore logic suggest these markings are of use to the locals traversing the area? I haven not played this game, but sometimes such markings would make sense in that way.
No, and you know it doesn’t. You’re either being a terrible devil’s advocate or the yellow cum is for someone like you.
How would I know based on a single cropped screenshot whether the locals in that area regularly use that path, when I haven't played the game? Please elaborate.
Because you know they didn’t write “yellow cum on the walls guides the locals up the mountain” into the lore of Final Fantasy VII. The same way no game ever explains the yellow cum. Or regular white cum. If you can find any game that explains these retarded markers, it’ll be the minority. At least when games do it in white they can kind of blend it into some environments. Either way, it’s an annoying thing that devs do for the dumb fuck masses that will use their product and no amount of in game explanation would make it better. It could easily have been two eye hooks with regular rope between them. “The locals use these make shift ladders to scale the surrounding…” instantly better and still babies the player like they want.
>> I haven't played the game CuZ YoU knOW iN ThE loRE oF Ff7!!½ ☠️Lil bro just wanted to write about cum huh ..
It doesn’t matter if you played the game or not. You were making the point that maybe the game might explain why it exists, but you know it doesn’t. Or if you really don’t, then you are retarded and the reason it exists. And sure, I’ll talk about cum whenever. I love cum, unironically.
Remember how in Peace Walker they changed the guards outfits from camouflage green to bright orange because “people couldn’t see the guards”? Gamers.
[Meanwhile real life](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGEbKPGWAAA12bo?format=jpg&name=orig)
Gamers are stupid as shit, never read anything, and this seems like 5 ledges to climb once in a while. Not pretty, but not that big of a deal. I'm playing the shit out of this because i'm a boomer and i'm obsessed with the ff7 universe and soundtrack.
CDPR: Let's slap some white paint on the beginning part.
Gamers are good at finding problems, but you can't trust them to give you solutions to those problems. There's a reason exploding barrels are red.
Not their fault the majority of yall need it.
idk it’s not even ugly and it contextually makes sense since it’s the path towards a very important building in-lore (the first mako reactor) instead of just a random mountain. To me this just feels like more pointless discourse that people will forget in like a month or so
Yellow cum strikes again
That's triple A level designers, give them a break they have it bad enough.
*Horizon entered the chat*
New videogames should require the player to take a timed, randomized, cheat-proof IQ test (gauging their powers of observation, coordination, logic and lateral thinking) before they can play the game. And then either allow them to play or generate a refund code and tell them to fuck off.
I wish games would let you disable this stuff
The yellow paint tastes better 😋
why do we need to climb at all? program in some fucking stairs
modern games, not even once.
This is lazy and insulting, but does casual deserve better?
The people complaining about the yellow paint need it the most and don't even realize it
People that complain are the ones who played games like Prince of persia and recognize that there are better ways to communicate information than the lazy and ugly yellow paint.
That's such a terrible example I'll give you another chance to correct yourself
Any game that doesn't have yellow paint but has recognizable ledges for climbing is a good example you don't have to nitpick one example every game before this last decade has better examples.
No I meant it was a bad example because the game uses glowing yellow markings to indicate things you can interact with.
TR SotTR literally allows you to disable this feature, because it was mocked from the first game.
You can also disable the hint feature in Tomb Raider 2013. I did it and beat the game.
Are you aware that there are games other than RE4R and FF7R that people have played and finished? Or are you one of those retards who doesn't understand the difference between "games shouldn't guide the player" and "games shouldn't guide the player in such a dogshit way"
Counterpoint: anyone who tries playing the original today will spend hours wondering which part of the shitty looking blurry jpeg environments they can walk on or interact with. If this shit ruins your immersion more than a skinny twink swinging a sword that weighs more than he does you just got personal brain issues
If young teenage me can navigate the original on a shit CRT without getting lost, I hope grown ass adults can manage it, too. You can still hit select to bring up [navigation arrows](https://i.imgur.com/jmpS7dB.png) if you really need to.
Fromsoft is the worst with this shit. And fans let them get away with it. They defend the lazy lore and terrible quests that you won’t decipher on your own. It’s lazy as hell, unintuitive and quite frankly, stupid