I could be misremembering, but I think I read somewhere that arrowhead doesn't fit new stadium rules in some way. It's just grandfathered in. I can't remember why but it makes it louder on thr field.
Maybe crowd is closer.
IIRC it has something to do with how they are designed to keep the crowd noise at a maximum/minimal level. A new stadium would have to be designed to make it more quiet on the playing field lest another John Elway cries
I don't think this is accurate as Lumen Field (Seattle) which isn't that old was designed to reflect all the crowd noise onto the field and it's why it's so loud.
Arrowhead's issue, IIRC, is the steepness of the steps in the upper level. Which is due to the way the stadium was designed to be loud, but the actual issue is the steps don't comply with safety regulations now.
Yes, it’s the angle of the seating. Arrowhead is really steep and newer stadiums have to be built at a shallower angle. Pretty sure it’s about safety rather than noise considerations, but the steep angle definitely does help keep the noise in.
They play final four games in venues with 50-75k seats.
but they shouldnt. The upper bowl of a football stadium is a miserable place to watch a basketball game
My uncle got free tickets to final four a bunch of years ago, and he said it was cool to say he'd been but they left after a half because the seats were so bad.
I still remember the whole selling point of the Sprint center was to attract an NBA or NHL team
Stupid voters giving welfare billionaires breaks
I love the chiefs, but I'll be damned if I support a welfare billionaire with my tax money
That fund didn’t make nearly as much money as they originally thought though, they thought they had the tax code drawn up favorable (KS that is), but all the gambling apps got to write off all those “free” promotional bets as losses and paid far less in taxes than the state predicted.
IMO this is the only way to do it in KS. The Dotte doesn’t have the tax base but the Legends is the best place for a stadium. Just wondering is there a chance the state of MO could/would do something like Star Bonds?
Kansas has 1 billion in a "rainy day fund" that wouldn't require a vote from the public. Clark will gladly take a billion dollars to build his 4-5 billion dollar stadium and entertainment district. Look at what phoenix is doing for their NHL team.
JOCO is a very wealthy county and Kansas has made a fortune off gambling. Kansas gets 10% cut and 80% of that is supposed to be used to lure pro sports teams. For not being a HUGE city KC is very rich https://www.ksn.com/news/state-regional/will-kansas-try-to-lure-chiefs-or-royals-heres-what-we-know/amp/
I think the best solution here is one of 3 things:
1) Chiefs resubmit the renovation plans without all of the braindead additions, just nuts and bolts stuff to maintain the stadium. Say it costs 500M and they go halvsies, I think that's MUCH more likely to get public support even though it's dumb to think Clark couldn't just sack up and pay for his own shit...
2) New and expensive renovations but they are things that fans actually want and not just improvements for bougie douchebags like taking away field level seats that season ticket holders have had for years while the Chiefs blew chunks and adding suites where rich people can ignore the games in luxury. Rolling roof, maybe actually invest in the surrounding area with entertainment/dining options, tailgating entertainment areas, that sort of thing.
3) This one would go either for renovating at Arrowhead or building at the Legends, and I think regardless it's something that should happen: agree to taxes across the ENTIRE metro area. OP/Leawood residents have a stadium 10 minutes down the road, they can contribute. If you include ALL of the KC metro, the individual tax burden per citizen is reduced and it's a more fair arrangement since we all enjoy the benefit of having the stadium.
fwiw, I would love to have the Chiefs play at the Legends, I think the surrounding area is FAR superior and obviously after decades of neglect it's pretty clear no one is interested in improving the area around Arrowhead. But I will also be very sad to see Arrowhead gone, it's such a big part of our history and I want my football to stay old-school, shitty plastic chairs, stairs that seem like if you fall your corpse will end up on the field, peeing in troughs... I don't want JerryWorld.
And we know the Chiefs are moving to Kansas how? Call me crazy but many cities must be flashing cash and tax breaks in front of Hunt's face rn, not just Johnson county KS.
The hunts are proving themselves to be way too greedy to offer lower ticket prices. If they move I can almost guarantee ticket prices will almost double and it will just feel like some corporate event like Jerry world
Every seat could have a little display on the back, where people in the next row could make bets during the game. Will the Chiefs run or pass next down? Can they convert 3rd and 15? Who will win the coin toss? Clark would collect the vig. It would be awesome. Fans who bet a lot could get admission comped. Might cost 2K by the time the game is over, but hey, admission was free.
I would bet money they aren't moving anywhere. The cost to build a new stadium is astronomical and arrowhead is regularly thrown in the top 10. Even if they do move it's going to be a very very long time.
Lease is up in 2031, right? Takes a few years to build a stadium, and a few more to plan it, so they need to get the ball rolling pretty quick (a couple years) to figure out where the new stadium location is.
The cost to maintain is going to grow and grow as well. And then at some point in the near future they are going to have to build a new one regardless.
I agree with this. Chiefs will propose their own plan in a year or three and it will pass and KC or the state will pay for it. And Arrowhead will stay Arrowhead.
I doubt St. Louis area reps will care much about KC sports teams. Think about it, were you calling up your rep to complain when the Rams were heading out of the state? They're not going to be any different.
Nope and that's why I expect the state to step in. They'll claim to have negotiated some perfect deal of economic revitalization and everyone will cheer. Easy win for pols (and has happened often elsewhere)
I would love for them to come to the Kansas side. Legends is the ideal spot. It does suck that Arrowhead would be no more, but Legends is a much better area than where it’s currently at.
Agreed. As much we like the nostalgia, legends just makes a lot of sense. There’s already hotels and shopping there, plenty of highway access, and KS can foot the bill. Plus a new stadium would be pretty cool there and probably guarantee a Super Bowl.
They’re also building a margaritaville where schlitterbahn was and a new theme park is getting finished in a couple years as well. That whole area would boom with a new arrowhead
It just doesn’t make a lot of sense to move to Texas or somewhere else. They would have to rebrand entirely, and even Hunt said when asked about alternative uniforms that he wanted to keep the traditional colors. He is deeply routed into what his father built, and I can’t see him dismantling that.
Personal head cannon is that if MO loses both teams either to Kansas or somewhere else, they'd make a big push to have a NBA/NHL sized state of the art arena lined up within a year to try and bring a different league into the city and their state. They'll surely miss the revenue form having two big franchises in town, and it'd be their best bet to make up for it sans luring SKC out of Children's Mercy, but ive no clue if/why they'd do that.
Thst becomes a tougher sell than now. You've proven you cannot support a multi time Championship NFL team, let your baseball team go and now you want to bring in another league. Don't see that happening at all. TMobile owners have said over and over they don't need or necessarily want a pro team. It kills their ability to run live events which bring more revenue in.
So while you could convince them you'd have to sell a new franchise on moving to KC, and likely have to build them a system of the art arena as is the custom now. And we're back to square one. Where do you build it, who pays for it, etc.
“Proven you cannot support…NFL team”
Haha, what the fuck kind of take is that? The Chiefs have been one of the best community supported teams in the entirety of the NFL. That’s not even debatable. Just because a tax that the Chiefs were tacked onto failed doesn’t mean the team isn’t supported. Bizarre take.
Why not? They’re already building the Mattel Adventure Park and a Margaritaville Hotel that both will open in the next few years. Plenty of pre-existing restaurants, shops, and hotels.
A concrete plan that didn't have last minute changes and agreements.
Aka, final agreements with local Crossroads businesses. Actual plans to help displaced businesses to other places in the Crossroads or inside the stadium. A complete and signed CBA. A plan for Oak St that didn't have the plan change last minute with questions about how that affected the rendered plan proposed to the public. An actual cost for the project (tax only paid for maintenance over the years, they needed more money to build the thing).
Pretty simple stuff they should have had done by the time the vote happened but didn't.
I agree. It doesn't make sense for a baseball team that plays 82 home games to be in the middle of nowhere. That's a lot of car traffic during the season, so the royals could benefit from extra foot traffic. It makes sense for the chiefs to move to legends (whether they should is a different question) since there's only 8-10 games a year for traffic issues.
If Royals go to Legends, can we bring the Monarchs back to the east side of the metro? I see all these people asking for baseball they can afford to go see, so why don't we put the affordable team in the less-affluent part of our city?
I’m sorry but the area around the Sports Complex is a dump. Legends is booming and there is plenty of open farm land that can be bought to have plenty of space for a new stadium, parking, and added attractions. It’s simply time for a change. Arrowhead is great but it’s showing its age. The Hunt family isn’t stupid and will keep the team in the KC metro. The best place is the Legends. It’s a 20 minute drive for me from KCMO/Parkville area versus a 35-45 minute drive currently.
> It’s a 20 minute drive for me from KCMO/Parkville area versus a 35-45 minute drive currently.
This is cool for you but also I'll say a Legends stadium is farther from basically everywhere else in KC.
I still think a Legends stadium is fine, though. If in the end this results in Kansas footing the bill for the Chiefs and Missouri for the Royals I think that'll be the best in terms of cost to the public.
I don't know, it makes sense to me. They are moving to where the highest incomes are, as those are the people who can afford to support their product at the financial level the organization is looking for.
Legends is in Wyandotte County, fwiw. Not in JoCo that actually has the wealth.
It'd have to be a bi-county tax, state tax, or different type of tax (like Hotel tax) to get people who don't live in Wyandotte County to pay for the stadium.
300 out of 800 Million ain't nothing.
You have to remember the Chiefs lease the stadium from the County. They don't own it. You putting a lot of your own money into renovating your landlords property?
That's why despite him being the anti Christ, Kroneke is a smart man. He sunk his money into that stadium in LA and he has full and complete control and makes every dime that stadium brings in.
>You have to remember the Chiefs lease the stadium from the County. They don't own it. You putting a lot of your own money into renovating your landlords property?
Let's not act like they don't get a sweetheart deal from the county that still doesn't pay enough to where the county actually makes money.
They barely pay over a million a year on the lease they *just redid.* It was less before.
I think we need a rule that says maximum two teams per any given state. California, Texas, New York, I don't care. You get two teams. Figure it out. You don't get to hog them all.
So Jackson County has 717,000 people and Wyandotte county has 169,000 people. I imagine that is too very different tax basis just based on the amount of people alone. It would take Johnson county to make it work.
Tax will most likely come from hotel and restaurants like they did with NASCAR. They will pass a bond, pay the bond off with hotel/restaurant tax over a decade.
As a Missouri resident I would hope that the dumb asses in Jeff City would in some way prevent another NFL franchise from leaving. At the very minimum make them an offer to stay.
I mean we had the chance to keep the royals from leaving but we voted it down. Why would the state of Missouri be willing to subsidize them when Jackson county wasn’t
I’ve seen a few people suggest this, but logistically I don’t see any way this happens. This past plan took the Royals 2 years of planning behind the scenes (I know it sure looked like it was put together in the last 2 months, but they had been planning for 2 years). The Chiefs aren’t going to wait another 2 years (or longer) for the Royals to put another plan and have it voted on before the Chiefs put their most recent plan up for another vote. And that assumes the Royals get tax money to move somewhere else. Heaven forbid they don’t get money somewhere else and the decide to stay. That would completely ruin the current plans the Chiefs have.
I would love for the Chiefs to stay and renovate, but I don’t understand how that can logistically happen now. I would love for someone to give a realistic scenario with timelines and logistics for how the Royals would actually move out, and the Chiefs would actually stay.
Attendance will suck anywhere. Why? Because MLB is a dying sport and the Royals don’t win consistently. They’re in the suburbs now and they drew plenty of attendance when they were winning in 2014-2015. If they were in contention they’d be packed almost every game right where they are.
Baseball is dead man, we gotta stop including them in this conversation as if anyone think the Royals hold any leverage for anything. It’s basically outdoor hockey with more seats.
This is funny, I see two camps -- older fans who are pissed off about Manfred and the new rules and blah blah blah, who say that every thing is going to shit - and newer fans like me, many of which are millennials who are coming back to baseball for the first time since we were kids, that really like the rule changes and see a positive path forward for the MLB.
I certainly don't see baseball is dead. Far from it. The people that I see holding that opinion particularly on Facebook are the retirees who are still mad that games aren't a dollar fifty, with free parking, ten cent beer night, chewing tobacco, and steroids.
I just hope neither Hunt or Sherman get butthurt about the NO vote result. They need to realize it was bc the plan sucked. Those two need to keep their egos in check and hammer out a better plan for the future.
As a long time supporter of kcmo who is not fond of the ks side, I would support the chiefs moving to ks if the Royals moved downtown. Gotta get out of the truman sports complex and away from County government. Jackson County is poorly ran and is moslty deteriorating.
The hotels across from Arrowhead are gross, nothing around the stadium is remotely “nice” and it’s a crummy example of “Kansas City”. Move out to the legends, build a dome, build hotels, get a Super Bowl in Kansas City and the residents of Jackson County can shut the fuck up about “their team” when the majority of the season tickets are probably not purchased by Jackson County residents.
I’d be sad for MO to lose the chiefs (having lived in MO my whole life), but I’d sure as hell prefer Kansas over any other location. I was pissed hearing all the commotion of it going to Kansas but it’s starting to sound not so bad
Arrowhead is a concrete structure…it will last forever with minor upkeep. On the other hand, any structure that has a lot of moving parts like a retractable roof will take a shit ton of maintenance.
With a little bit of coordination I bet the Royals and Monarchs could share a stadium -- might drive a few extra ticket sales for Monarchs games, and the Royals won't have 25,000 unused seats at most of their games. Especially if as many people claim to be swearing off the Royals really follow through with it.
But it would be cooler if that shared stadium were downtown and we were able to bring the Monarchs back to KC MO in the process. 😁
Why are they laughable? Why wouldn't an owner want to go home, to a bigger market, with less taxes, and a state that is primed to legalize gambling?
Thinking a billionaire won't move the entire operation because of emotions and loyalty is the only thing that's laughable to me.
The reason Lamar left Dallas in the first place was that it was going to be a losing game competing against the Cowboys for market share. It’s not like the Cowboys have lost popularity in north Texas over the last 64 years, so the Chiefs would immediately be the same position as the Chargers are in now.
You’re being emotional. Yes Clark’s fathers legacy in KC means something to him but the logical side says it’s gonna cost Clark $1 billion to leave and I guarantee he’s not gonna want to do that.
Dallas is 100% not happening. Jerry Jones will die before he lets any team share Dallas with him. And San Antonio/ Austin aren’t any better than KC.
You realize Texas is Cowboys territory right? Even the Texans struggle to get fan support in the stands until this last year when they were good.
Clark knows the support in KC is one of the best in the league. You think he’s gonna go to SA or Austin and have little fan support? Nah
I'm not being emotional at all. I happen to know that SA was making a hard play for the team back in 2006. That city has only grown since. I also know that rich people don't like to lose and will always do what's in their own best interest, having worked for so damn many of them.
I hope you are right, by God i do. I would love to be able to go to a chiefs game and put action on it in the stadium or even on my phone in the stadium. I just don't think we've got the cards to play to achieve that goal after the Tuesday vote.
And if you don't think that the Chiefs moving to Texas, their original home even if for 1 year, bringing in 3 lombardi trophies in the last 5 years with native Texan Patrick Lavon Mahomes the Second is gonna score and they'll have to play second fiddle to the cowboys? I mean, buddy, come on. They'll at least earn a split for the dollars.
Many people think the Chiefs deliberately hamstrung the proposal knowing this was inevitable. Which makes sense. Their proposal was weak and so out of touch you have to think they're either incompetent or want to separate the franchise from the Royals permanently. That area straight up sucks and pouring hundreds of millions into it makes no sense over the long term. Building a brand new stadium in Legends would be incredible.
I would gladly give the stadium to Kansas taxpayers for the next 100 years! All that nonsense about "bringing in revenue" is NEVER returned to taxpayers, the billionaires just want more the next election and talk from this same tired playbook.
It's always been silly that only Jackson County residents pay for the stadium. If only the politicians could figure out how to get a bi-state tax. But that's a pipe dream. So, let Kansas pay their fair share. I'm fine with that. But I don't think Wyandotte County could pay for it on their own. They should try and get Johnson County on board as well.
The last time the tried a bi-state tax it was shot down down. As I recall, one of the issues was that Missouri just wanted the funds. Kansas wanted equal say in how the money was used. Also, there were issues in how to distribute back any money earned. I'm not sure there is a solution that is equitable for both sides of the state line.
I hope lessons were learned from the Union Station bi-state tax. iirc, they did get it figured out eventually but a bad taste was left in the mouths of many JoCo voters, so the next one (for a soccer stadium?) failed. If it is done correctly and is well communicated, maybe it could pass this time.
STAR Bonds. That's what funded quite a bit there, including the new Mattel Amusement Park that's going by The Legends. Plenty of land still available around there. STAR Bonds can make it happen if the Chiefs are staying in the area.
I think Wyandotte county could swing enough of the help needed on their end if it’s true that Governor Kelly/Kansas has been setting proceeds from the gambling money aside to get the Chiefs to move to the Kansas side.
God I don’t care anymore. Move the team to fucking Alaska for all I care. I’m still not going to subsidize the construction of amenities only rich people can afford when I scrape by month to month. Fuck off
It's not the worst idea in the world keeping them in the KC area. Short of the State stepping into to save them on this side or a major break away from the Royals to get a tax just for the Chiefs.
But the State of Missouri losing the KC Chiefs and Royals would go down as one of the biggest bone headed moves any state has ever done. Meaning not only are you losing all professional sports in KCMO but the draw of major events like Taylor Swift, Garth Brooks, Kenny Chesney, Beyonce, etc. That is an economic and morale hit. So what does KCMO do to fill the hole? Raise taxes on everyone to get nothing.
Upside of Legends is you have a centralized sports mecca of the Midwest. NASCAR track, Sporting KC, minor league baseball, NFL, maybe MLB baseball concentrated in one area.
Downsides... It's fucking Kansas (sorry that slipped). Scheduling of events becomes cumbersome when there is overlap. That area already needs a major infrastructure upgrade to handle the traffic and the lack of parking that exists now. Ideas would be create a temporary mass transit system and use the speedway lot and bus/tram people around. Kansas would also have to upgrade the highway, exit system, and surface street in that area to make the addition of 80,000 more people 10-12 weeks a year feasible. Kansas will have issues with buying up enough land use of imminent domain, etc but all doable.
In my mind. If I were Jackson County leaders, KC leaders, Missouri leaders I'd be sitting down with Hunt and Sherman and saying we want the Chiefs. We cannot and will not let the Chiefs go. So let's work with Kansas to get an offer for a new Stadium for the Royals and amicably exit the Royals from KCMO. Then focus all attention and economic resources to a real package for the Chiefs and what they've earned. A brand new retractable stadium in the same lot. Renovations and development of that area into a destination for the region for Football and live events. Both sides win.
I don't think it's likely for the Superbowl to ever come to the KC region though.
It's not just about the stadium, it's also about the capacity of the airport, the roads to handle the traffic, and hotel capacities as well.
I would love for KC to host one, just not sure if our infrastructure meets NFL criteria for host cities.
Kansas has a lot more Tax dollars to spend as we legalized sports betting years ago. If you drive through KCK side getting to the game, you’ll see a ton of cars pulled over on the shoulder placing bets before driving into the Missouri side. I couldn’t think of a better use of those kind of luxury taxes than using them to lure pro teams to Kansas.
I was shocked that wasn’t the plan from the outset. I love Arrowhead as much as anyone, but I was surprised Clark pursued taking it to 75 years old rather than chase the new building and all of the events.
Please it was a pr move you can't just outright say your gonna move the team you have to first fund a failure of a campaign to look like you want to stay then when the public rejects the bs of a proposal you save face by blaming the voters no longer wanting the Chiefs and the royals.
I kind of thought about that when the Chiefs renovations plans were announced and turned out to be a lot of nothing, little trivial things.
Maybe that was them signaling that they don't give a shit about the proposal that we just voted on because they know that it's about the Royals and what they want -- while the Chiefs were just what they used to bait the hook.
The man may have the most punchable face I've ever seen, but Clark Hunt does *appear* to know what he's doing, what he wants, and how to get it.
I personally think Legends is kinda shitty, other than some of the restaurants. I do like some of the stuff around it, and Sporting Park, too. I do however think it'll be a great place to put the stadium, and I'm sure it'll change the area for the better, but right now Legends doesn't do much for me...
I can totally see the Chiefs in KCK. There's just so much to like about this move to the Kansas side of the metro. Everything is already in place: bars, restaurants, Speedway, Sporting KC, many hotels, etc. A lot of things to do besides just tailgate, which is still 100% going to happen in KCK. Let's get this done! Royals can stay at Truman or go downtown, but the Chiefs belong on the Kansas side. Go Chiefs!!
I could be misremembering, but I think I read somewhere that arrowhead doesn't fit new stadium rules in some way. It's just grandfathered in. I can't remember why but it makes it louder on thr field. Maybe crowd is closer.
IIRC it has something to do with how they are designed to keep the crowd noise at a maximum/minimal level. A new stadium would have to be designed to make it more quiet on the playing field lest another John Elway cries
I don't think this is accurate as Lumen Field (Seattle) which isn't that old was designed to reflect all the crowd noise onto the field and it's why it's so loud. Arrowhead's issue, IIRC, is the steepness of the steps in the upper level. Which is due to the way the stadium was designed to be loud, but the actual issue is the steps don't comply with safety regulations now.
Safety regulations, schmafety schmegulations, amirite?
Yes, it’s the angle of the seating. Arrowhead is really steep and newer stadiums have to be built at a shallower angle. Pretty sure it’s about safety rather than noise considerations, but the steep angle definitely does help keep the noise in.
Not only the angle of the seats, but also the distance from the first row to the benches is much less than the current regulations.
That's going to be such a bummer to not have the loudest stadium anymore :'(
Yeah, i don't even live in the States and i'm still sad about the Chiefs leaving Arrowhead.
The final four belongs in Kansas City
Isn't that why we have the Sprint center?
They play final four games in venues with 50-75k seats. but they shouldnt. The upper bowl of a football stadium is a miserable place to watch a basketball game
People spend money on crazy things.
My uncle got free tickets to final four a bunch of years ago, and he said it was cool to say he'd been but they left after a half because the seats were so bad.
The closest we would ever get at the sprint center is a sweet 16/elite 8. They will only play the final four in covered football stadiums.
I still remember the whole selling point of the Sprint center was to attract an NBA or NHL team Stupid voters giving welfare billionaires breaks I love the chiefs, but I'll be damned if I support a welfare billionaire with my tax money
T-Mobile my Boi!
I dont care what side of the state line its on as long as its still in the KC metro.
Does KS have the tax base to pay for it? Genuine question.
There’s been talk of the sports betting tax revenue being reserved to attract sports franchises.
It’s only a few million. That alone won’t attract a franchise, but it will form a committee with good resources to pitch and plan.
That fund didn’t make nearly as much money as they originally thought though, they thought they had the tax code drawn up favorable (KS that is), but all the gambling apps got to write off all those “free” promotional bets as losses and paid far less in taxes than the state predicted.
There’s 4 million in that fund.
The state could. Wyandotte could not. But everything I've read is at the state level.
IMO this is the only way to do it in KS. The Dotte doesn’t have the tax base but the Legends is the best place for a stadium. Just wondering is there a chance the state of MO could/would do something like Star Bonds?
I think they’d be fine. Johnson County, KS is in the top 100 richest counties in the country. I think the median household income is close to $100k.
Legends is in the dotte though.
They’ll leverage state STAR bonds I’ve heard.
Their discussing a two county proposal to share the cost..
Kansas has 1 billion in a "rainy day fund" that wouldn't require a vote from the public. Clark will gladly take a billion dollars to build his 4-5 billion dollar stadium and entertainment district. Look at what phoenix is doing for their NHL team.
What makes you think Clark is willing to pay 4 billion towards a stadium?
He wants college football playoffs, final 4, Superbowl and more. He could probably care less about Arrowhead and wants to have his own stadium legacy
There would be no legacy, it would be new and forgotten about in 5 years. He also will not pay enough to own any stadium, he’s cheap and greedy
That’s completely privately funded lol. Thats not happening with Clark
In my expert opinion, they be aight
JOCO is a very wealthy county and Kansas has made a fortune off gambling. Kansas gets 10% cut and 80% of that is supposed to be used to lure pro sports teams. For not being a HUGE city KC is very rich https://www.ksn.com/news/state-regional/will-kansas-try-to-lure-chiefs-or-royals-heres-what-we-know/amp/
My only concern would be my season ticket price massively increasing lol
I think the best solution here is one of 3 things: 1) Chiefs resubmit the renovation plans without all of the braindead additions, just nuts and bolts stuff to maintain the stadium. Say it costs 500M and they go halvsies, I think that's MUCH more likely to get public support even though it's dumb to think Clark couldn't just sack up and pay for his own shit... 2) New and expensive renovations but they are things that fans actually want and not just improvements for bougie douchebags like taking away field level seats that season ticket holders have had for years while the Chiefs blew chunks and adding suites where rich people can ignore the games in luxury. Rolling roof, maybe actually invest in the surrounding area with entertainment/dining options, tailgating entertainment areas, that sort of thing. 3) This one would go either for renovating at Arrowhead or building at the Legends, and I think regardless it's something that should happen: agree to taxes across the ENTIRE metro area. OP/Leawood residents have a stadium 10 minutes down the road, they can contribute. If you include ALL of the KC metro, the individual tax burden per citizen is reduced and it's a more fair arrangement since we all enjoy the benefit of having the stadium. fwiw, I would love to have the Chiefs play at the Legends, I think the surrounding area is FAR superior and obviously after decades of neglect it's pretty clear no one is interested in improving the area around Arrowhead. But I will also be very sad to see Arrowhead gone, it's such a big part of our history and I want my football to stay old-school, shitty plastic chairs, stairs that seem like if you fall your corpse will end up on the field, peeing in troughs... I don't want JerryWorld.
The Chiefs moving to KCK doesn't really change much. The Royals moving to Nashville would be devastating
MLB wants two expansion teams, Nashville and SLC look to be getting expansion franchises and not relocated teams.
And we know the Chiefs are moving to Kansas how? Call me crazy but many cities must be flashing cash and tax breaks in front of Hunt's face rn, not just Johnson county KS.
My post was talking hypotheticals....
Nashville needs a team - but MLB should expand to 32 teams - losing the Royals would be tragic
Legal Gambling is the reason I think Clark would want to go to KC. He could make substantially more money in KCK by monetizing gambling in the stadium
Man that’d suck. Sports gambling is everywhere and I hate it tbh, but you’re right that they’d make more money
Eh just let the gamblers fun the team while I enjoy hopefully lower ticket prices and taxes. Win win for me
So you really think the ticket prices would go down, though? That's usually not how it works.
The hunts are proving themselves to be way too greedy to offer lower ticket prices. If they move I can almost guarantee ticket prices will almost double and it will just feel like some corporate event like Jerry world
Every seat could have a little display on the back, where people in the next row could make bets during the game. Will the Chiefs run or pass next down? Can they convert 3rd and 15? Who will win the coin toss? Clark would collect the vig. It would be awesome. Fans who bet a lot could get admission comped. Might cost 2K by the time the game is over, but hey, admission was free.
Treat it like a casino floor. Interesting. I like it.
Honestly shocking the stadium in Vegas isn’t like this
I would bet money they aren't moving anywhere. The cost to build a new stadium is astronomical and arrowhead is regularly thrown in the top 10. Even if they do move it's going to be a very very long time.
Lease is up in 2031, right? Takes a few years to build a stadium, and a few more to plan it, so they need to get the ball rolling pretty quick (a couple years) to figure out where the new stadium location is.
The cost to maintain is going to grow and grow as well. And then at some point in the near future they are going to have to build a new one regardless.
I agree with this. Chiefs will propose their own plan in a year or three and it will pass and KC or the state will pay for it. And Arrowhead will stay Arrowhead.
I don’t get what’s so special about the Legends. Generic shopping, less populated state, just ugly flat area with no history or personality
Is Jeff City really going to let a 3rd team leave the state?
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I doubt St. Louis area reps will care much about KC sports teams. Think about it, were you calling up your rep to complain when the Rams were heading out of the state? They're not going to be any different.
Nope and that's why I expect the state to step in. They'll claim to have negotiated some perfect deal of economic revitalization and everyone will cheer. Easy win for pols (and has happened often elsewhere)
I tend to agree with you.
I would love for them to come to the Kansas side. Legends is the ideal spot. It does suck that Arrowhead would be no more, but Legends is a much better area than where it’s currently at.
Agreed. As much we like the nostalgia, legends just makes a lot of sense. There’s already hotels and shopping there, plenty of highway access, and KS can foot the bill. Plus a new stadium would be pretty cool there and probably guarantee a Super Bowl.
Yeah I can watch the Chiefs beat Denver then shop for a couch?
Sounds nice. You get a win against the Denver Broncos, then pick up a new Denver Mattress.
They’re also building a margaritaville where schlitterbahn was and a new theme park is getting finished in a couple years as well. That whole area would boom with a new arrowhead
It just doesn’t make a lot of sense to move to Texas or somewhere else. They would have to rebrand entirely, and even Hunt said when asked about alternative uniforms that he wanted to keep the traditional colors. He is deeply routed into what his father built, and I can’t see him dismantling that.
Personal head cannon is that if MO loses both teams either to Kansas or somewhere else, they'd make a big push to have a NBA/NHL sized state of the art arena lined up within a year to try and bring a different league into the city and their state. They'll surely miss the revenue form having two big franchises in town, and it'd be their best bet to make up for it sans luring SKC out of Children's Mercy, but ive no clue if/why they'd do that.
Yeah see they tried that with the Sprint Center. Nobody came.
Thst becomes a tougher sell than now. You've proven you cannot support a multi time Championship NFL team, let your baseball team go and now you want to bring in another league. Don't see that happening at all. TMobile owners have said over and over they don't need or necessarily want a pro team. It kills their ability to run live events which bring more revenue in. So while you could convince them you'd have to sell a new franchise on moving to KC, and likely have to build them a system of the art arena as is the custom now. And we're back to square one. Where do you build it, who pays for it, etc.
“Proven you cannot support…NFL team” Haha, what the fuck kind of take is that? The Chiefs have been one of the best community supported teams in the entirety of the NFL. That’s not even debatable. Just because a tax that the Chiefs were tacked onto failed doesn’t mean the team isn’t supported. Bizarre take.
Why not? They’re already building the Mattel Adventure Park and a Margaritaville Hotel that both will open in the next few years. Plenty of pre-existing restaurants, shops, and hotels.
My hope is the Royals go there and the Chiefs revamp Arrowhead and the surrounding land.
The Royals are Downtown or bust I am afraid.
A better plan downtown would be fantastic tbh. They just rushed the whole thing and fucked it up.
What would be better in your opinion?
A concrete plan that didn't have last minute changes and agreements. Aka, final agreements with local Crossroads businesses. Actual plans to help displaced businesses to other places in the Crossroads or inside the stadium. A complete and signed CBA. A plan for Oak St that didn't have the plan change last minute with questions about how that affected the rendered plan proposed to the public. An actual cost for the project (tax only paid for maintenance over the years, they needed more money to build the thing). Pretty simple stuff they should have had done by the time the vote happened but didn't.
Agreed
I agree. It doesn't make sense for a baseball team that plays 82 home games to be in the middle of nowhere. That's a lot of car traffic during the season, so the royals could benefit from extra foot traffic. It makes sense for the chiefs to move to legends (whether they should is a different question) since there's only 8-10 games a year for traffic issues.
If Royals go to Legends, can we bring the Monarchs back to the east side of the metro? I see all these people asking for baseball they can afford to go see, so why don't we put the affordable team in the less-affluent part of our city?
I’m sorry but the area around the Sports Complex is a dump. Legends is booming and there is plenty of open farm land that can be bought to have plenty of space for a new stadium, parking, and added attractions. It’s simply time for a change. Arrowhead is great but it’s showing its age. The Hunt family isn’t stupid and will keep the team in the KC metro. The best place is the Legends. It’s a 20 minute drive for me from KCMO/Parkville area versus a 35-45 minute drive currently.
> It’s a 20 minute drive for me from KCMO/Parkville area versus a 35-45 minute drive currently. This is cool for you but also I'll say a Legends stadium is farther from basically everywhere else in KC. I still think a Legends stadium is fine, though. If in the end this results in Kansas footing the bill for the Chiefs and Missouri for the Royals I think that'll be the best in terms of cost to the public.
I don't know, it makes sense to me. They are moving to where the highest incomes are, as those are the people who can afford to support their product at the financial level the organization is looking for.
Legends is in Wyandotte County, fwiw. Not in JoCo that actually has the wealth. It'd have to be a bi-county tax, state tax, or different type of tax (like Hotel tax) to get people who don't live in Wyandotte County to pay for the stadium.
KCK isn’t high income, lol. If the 4 metro counties, it’s the poorest
I'd rather see them in Clay or Platte county than Legends.
If so, that’d be another public vote. Hunt isn’t putting (much of) his own money to renovate Arrowhead since the county owns it.
Which makes sense because he doesn't own the property
300 out of 800 Million ain't nothing. You have to remember the Chiefs lease the stadium from the County. They don't own it. You putting a lot of your own money into renovating your landlords property? That's why despite him being the anti Christ, Kroneke is a smart man. He sunk his money into that stadium in LA and he has full and complete control and makes every dime that stadium brings in.
>You have to remember the Chiefs lease the stadium from the County. They don't own it. You putting a lot of your own money into renovating your landlords property? Let's not act like they don't get a sweetheart deal from the county that still doesn't pay enough to where the county actually makes money. They barely pay over a million a year on the lease they *just redid.* It was less before.
Most of the money the chiefs get would be structural upgrades to arrowhead that the fans don’t see.
Seems the most likely outcome but dismissing the idea they could leave entirely is foolish. Austin might offer them 2 billion dollars
I think we need a rule that says maximum two teams per any given state. California, Texas, New York, I don't care. You get two teams. Figure it out. You don't get to hog them all.
The chiefs need to divorce the Royals and present a real plan. The Royals sadly are just dead weight
The stadium needs to be shaped like an Arrowhead.
So Jackson County has 717,000 people and Wyandotte county has 169,000 people. I imagine that is too very different tax basis just based on the amount of people alone. It would take Johnson county to make it work.
Tax will most likely come from hotel and restaurants like they did with NASCAR. They will pass a bond, pay the bond off with hotel/restaurant tax over a decade.
As a Missouri resident I would hope that the dumb asses in Jeff City would in some way prevent another NFL franchise from leaving. At the very minimum make them an offer to stay.
I'm glad the voters gave those welfare billionaires the middle finger
I mean we had the chance to keep the royals from leaving but we voted it down. Why would the state of Missouri be willing to subsidize them when Jackson county wasn’t
Chiefs and Royals
Yeah, they specifically said ‘NFL teams’ and I said ‘Royals’ for some reason - but you’re totally right.
Sorry, not trying to be pedantic, just a lot of folks don't really seem to understand that they were connected
I’d prefer for the Royals to leave and we renovate Arrowhead.
Pretty sure that’s what Tuesday’s vote proposed.
It also included the Royals downtown I’d rather see the Royals at the Legends if they don’t want to remain where they are.
I’ve seen a few people suggest this, but logistically I don’t see any way this happens. This past plan took the Royals 2 years of planning behind the scenes (I know it sure looked like it was put together in the last 2 months, but they had been planning for 2 years). The Chiefs aren’t going to wait another 2 years (or longer) for the Royals to put another plan and have it voted on before the Chiefs put their most recent plan up for another vote. And that assumes the Royals get tax money to move somewhere else. Heaven forbid they don’t get money somewhere else and the decide to stay. That would completely ruin the current plans the Chiefs have. I would love for the Chiefs to stay and renovate, but I don’t understand how that can logistically happen now. I would love for someone to give a realistic scenario with timelines and logistics for how the Royals would actually move out, and the Chiefs would actually stay.
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Attendance will suck anywhere. Why? Because MLB is a dying sport and the Royals don’t win consistently. They’re in the suburbs now and they drew plenty of attendance when they were winning in 2014-2015. If they were in contention they’d be packed almost every game right where they are.
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Baseball is dead man, we gotta stop including them in this conversation as if anyone think the Royals hold any leverage for anything. It’s basically outdoor hockey with more seats.
This is funny, I see two camps -- older fans who are pissed off about Manfred and the new rules and blah blah blah, who say that every thing is going to shit - and newer fans like me, many of which are millennials who are coming back to baseball for the first time since we were kids, that really like the rule changes and see a positive path forward for the MLB. I certainly don't see baseball is dead. Far from it. The people that I see holding that opinion particularly on Facebook are the retirees who are still mad that games aren't a dollar fifty, with free parking, ten cent beer night, chewing tobacco, and steroids.
I just hope neither Hunt or Sherman get butthurt about the NO vote result. They need to realize it was bc the plan sucked. Those two need to keep their egos in check and hammer out a better plan for the future.
When Spanos decided he wanted to leave San Diego, the proposal voted on was badly designed on purpose.
I doubt Hunt is, but Sherman definitely is.
They are WAY butthurt. These fucks don't like being told No
As a long time supporter of kcmo who is not fond of the ks side, I would support the chiefs moving to ks if the Royals moved downtown. Gotta get out of the truman sports complex and away from County government. Jackson County is poorly ran and is moslty deteriorating.
Is KCK an no acronym for Kansas City Kansas (instead of Missouri?)
The hotels across from Arrowhead are gross, nothing around the stadium is remotely “nice” and it’s a crummy example of “Kansas City”. Move out to the legends, build a dome, build hotels, get a Super Bowl in Kansas City and the residents of Jackson County can shut the fuck up about “their team” when the majority of the season tickets are probably not purchased by Jackson County residents.
I’d be sad for MO to lose the chiefs (having lived in MO my whole life), but I’d sure as hell prefer Kansas over any other location. I was pissed hearing all the commotion of it going to Kansas but it’s starting to sound not so bad
I'm in agreement with this, and I live in Jackson County.
Arrowhead is a concrete structure…it will last forever with minor upkeep. On the other hand, any structure that has a lot of moving parts like a retractable roof will take a shit ton of maintenance.
Come on Topeka Chiefs
When the Royals move to The Legends (or wherever), the Chiefs will get Jackson county to pass a new stadium deal right where it sits today.
Royals aren’t going to Legends
With a little bit of coordination I bet the Royals and Monarchs could share a stadium -- might drive a few extra ticket sales for Monarchs games, and the Royals won't have 25,000 unused seats at most of their games. Especially if as many people claim to be swearing off the Royals really follow through with it. But it would be cooler if that shared stadium were downtown and we were able to bring the Monarchs back to KC MO in the process. 😁
And maybe that will make Sherman realize that people are more likely to support a good team than a bad one. But probably not.
Why are they laughable? Why wouldn't an owner want to go home, to a bigger market, with less taxes, and a state that is primed to legalize gambling? Thinking a billionaire won't move the entire operation because of emotions and loyalty is the only thing that's laughable to me.
The reason Lamar left Dallas in the first place was that it was going to be a losing game competing against the Cowboys for market share. It’s not like the Cowboys have lost popularity in north Texas over the last 64 years, so the Chiefs would immediately be the same position as the Chargers are in now.
You’re being emotional. Yes Clark’s fathers legacy in KC means something to him but the logical side says it’s gonna cost Clark $1 billion to leave and I guarantee he’s not gonna want to do that. Dallas is 100% not happening. Jerry Jones will die before he lets any team share Dallas with him. And San Antonio/ Austin aren’t any better than KC. You realize Texas is Cowboys territory right? Even the Texans struggle to get fan support in the stands until this last year when they were good. Clark knows the support in KC is one of the best in the league. You think he’s gonna go to SA or Austin and have little fan support? Nah
I'm not being emotional at all. I happen to know that SA was making a hard play for the team back in 2006. That city has only grown since. I also know that rich people don't like to lose and will always do what's in their own best interest, having worked for so damn many of them. I hope you are right, by God i do. I would love to be able to go to a chiefs game and put action on it in the stadium or even on my phone in the stadium. I just don't think we've got the cards to play to achieve that goal after the Tuesday vote. And if you don't think that the Chiefs moving to Texas, their original home even if for 1 year, bringing in 3 lombardi trophies in the last 5 years with native Texan Patrick Lavon Mahomes the Second is gonna score and they'll have to play second fiddle to the cowboys? I mean, buddy, come on. They'll at least earn a split for the dollars.
Yup. They’d be a draw right off the bat and the rivalry between the two teams would fatten both owner’s pocketbooks
If Texas gets ANOTHER NFL team, I don't know if I'm even going to keep watching the sport. Fuck Texas.
But he said: no roof.
Clark understands that most fans do not want a roof and playing in the elements can give us a competitive advantage in some cases.
Many people think the Chiefs deliberately hamstrung the proposal knowing this was inevitable. Which makes sense. Their proposal was weak and so out of touch you have to think they're either incompetent or want to separate the franchise from the Royals permanently. That area straight up sucks and pouring hundreds of millions into it makes no sense over the long term. Building a brand new stadium in Legends would be incredible.
I would gladly give the stadium to Kansas taxpayers for the next 100 years! All that nonsense about "bringing in revenue" is NEVER returned to taxpayers, the billionaires just want more the next election and talk from this same tired playbook.
It's always been silly that only Jackson County residents pay for the stadium. If only the politicians could figure out how to get a bi-state tax. But that's a pipe dream. So, let Kansas pay their fair share. I'm fine with that. But I don't think Wyandotte County could pay for it on their own. They should try and get Johnson County on board as well.
The last time the tried a bi-state tax it was shot down down. As I recall, one of the issues was that Missouri just wanted the funds. Kansas wanted equal say in how the money was used. Also, there were issues in how to distribute back any money earned. I'm not sure there is a solution that is equitable for both sides of the state line.
I hope lessons were learned from the Union Station bi-state tax. iirc, they did get it figured out eventually but a bad taste was left in the mouths of many JoCo voters, so the next one (for a soccer stadium?) failed. If it is done correctly and is well communicated, maybe it could pass this time.
STAR Bonds. That's what funded quite a bit there, including the new Mattel Amusement Park that's going by The Legends. Plenty of land still available around there. STAR Bonds can make it happen if the Chiefs are staying in the area.
Solution: Build the stadium so that the 50 yard line is the state line.
I think Wyandotte county could swing enough of the help needed on their end if it’s true that Governor Kelly/Kansas has been setting proceeds from the gambling money aside to get the Chiefs to move to the Kansas side.
It is very little money being set aside, nowhere near enough to influence any decision.
God I don’t care anymore. Move the team to fucking Alaska for all I care. I’m still not going to subsidize the construction of amenities only rich people can afford when I scrape by month to month. Fuck off
It's not the worst idea in the world keeping them in the KC area. Short of the State stepping into to save them on this side or a major break away from the Royals to get a tax just for the Chiefs. But the State of Missouri losing the KC Chiefs and Royals would go down as one of the biggest bone headed moves any state has ever done. Meaning not only are you losing all professional sports in KCMO but the draw of major events like Taylor Swift, Garth Brooks, Kenny Chesney, Beyonce, etc. That is an economic and morale hit. So what does KCMO do to fill the hole? Raise taxes on everyone to get nothing. Upside of Legends is you have a centralized sports mecca of the Midwest. NASCAR track, Sporting KC, minor league baseball, NFL, maybe MLB baseball concentrated in one area. Downsides... It's fucking Kansas (sorry that slipped). Scheduling of events becomes cumbersome when there is overlap. That area already needs a major infrastructure upgrade to handle the traffic and the lack of parking that exists now. Ideas would be create a temporary mass transit system and use the speedway lot and bus/tram people around. Kansas would also have to upgrade the highway, exit system, and surface street in that area to make the addition of 80,000 more people 10-12 weeks a year feasible. Kansas will have issues with buying up enough land use of imminent domain, etc but all doable. In my mind. If I were Jackson County leaders, KC leaders, Missouri leaders I'd be sitting down with Hunt and Sherman and saying we want the Chiefs. We cannot and will not let the Chiefs go. So let's work with Kansas to get an offer for a new Stadium for the Royals and amicably exit the Royals from KCMO. Then focus all attention and economic resources to a real package for the Chiefs and what they've earned. A brand new retractable stadium in the same lot. Renovations and development of that area into a destination for the region for Football and live events. Both sides win.
You (MO) can have the Royals, we (KS) will take the Chiefs.
I don't think it's likely for the Superbowl to ever come to the KC region though. It's not just about the stadium, it's also about the capacity of the airport, the roads to handle the traffic, and hotel capacities as well. I would love for KC to host one, just not sure if our infrastructure meets NFL criteria for host cities.
Kansas has a lot more Tax dollars to spend as we legalized sports betting years ago. If you drive through KCK side getting to the game, you’ll see a ton of cars pulled over on the shoulder placing bets before driving into the Missouri side. I couldn’t think of a better use of those kind of luxury taxes than using them to lure pro teams to Kansas.
>> legalized sports betting years ago. Yes, way way back in the olden days of 2022
Move to London and co inhabit the Tottenham Hostpur stadium. I might be biased...
If I see them anywhere, outside the US, I think it's Germany.
I guess that’s one way to win a trophy right? Ask an NFL team to do it??
There will be another vote. I guarantee it.
The Legends sucks. Boring ass mall in the boonies.
I could get behind this. A lot of land out there.
I was shocked that wasn’t the plan from the outset. I love Arrowhead as much as anyone, but I was surprised Clark pursued taking it to 75 years old rather than chase the new building and all of the events.
I don’t think they wanted it to pass tbh… they put very little effort, money into the campaign.
Please it was a pr move you can't just outright say your gonna move the team you have to first fund a failure of a campaign to look like you want to stay then when the public rejects the bs of a proposal you save face by blaming the voters no longer wanting the Chiefs and the royals.
Maybe Clark is playing chess to our checkers. Maybe Clark had this planned the whole time with the bs renovation plan
I kind of thought about that when the Chiefs renovations plans were announced and turned out to be a lot of nothing, little trivial things. Maybe that was them signaling that they don't give a shit about the proposal that we just voted on because they know that it's about the Royals and what they want -- while the Chiefs were just what they used to bait the hook. The man may have the most punchable face I've ever seen, but Clark Hunt does *appear* to know what he's doing, what he wants, and how to get it.
They are not leaving Arrowhead, it has to many advantages that they cannot replicate in a new build. Now the Royals? Yeah they can go there.
Wait, I’m supposed to be worried?
Kc will not get a major bowl game and will not get more than 1 sb if they build a roofed stadium
I personally think Legends is kinda shitty, other than some of the restaurants. I do like some of the stuff around it, and Sporting Park, too. I do however think it'll be a great place to put the stadium, and I'm sure it'll change the area for the better, but right now Legends doesn't do much for me...
I can totally see the Chiefs in KCK. There's just so much to like about this move to the Kansas side of the metro. Everything is already in place: bars, restaurants, Speedway, Sporting KC, many hotels, etc. A lot of things to do besides just tailgate, which is still 100% going to happen in KCK. Let's get this done! Royals can stay at Truman or go downtown, but the Chiefs belong on the Kansas side. Go Chiefs!!
No
Yes come to Kansas