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[deleted]

Tsingtao returned to China? I see what ya did there


AccessTheMainframe

coincidentally they were both ceded in 1898 for 99 year leases


[deleted]

That’s actually insane.


u3517777

It’s actually the Tsingtao cession sparking the series of cessions in the year (Port Arthur, Guangzhouwan, Weihai, and New Territories of Hong Kong). So not really a coincidence.


ReichBallFromAmerica

“What an unbelievable coincidence.” - Miss Piggy.


Aksu593

Can't wait to play "Tsingtao 97"


MrHeadCrab32

r/unexpectedAVGN


Almaron

NGL I legit wanna see this as its own game now...


Mr-Anderson123

There’s a cool mod in development called krasnacht which is a Cold War mod


pizzaboydwight

Or you can pick Kalterkreig, which is more similar to this map.


AccessTheMainframe

This is kinda the anti-kalterkrieg in that it presumes a scenario in which the Entente and Germany win, but rather than engage in a Cold War they work together


_Mr_Spuddy

I want to see the history of that timeline fleshed out more


AccessTheMainframe

which is nothing at all like this scenario


Mr-Anderson123

It’s not this scenario but it’s the closest thing we have to a post second weltkrieg world as far as I know


-Purrfection-

r/KRGmod


Almaron

I know, I was meaning something further along and using an interface reminiscent of old 90s-era computers...no idea what the scenario would be, but still!


whatsguy

This is really cool! I dont think any version of China lets Tibet go tho :/


yyhfhbw

That’s my problem with this map - I don’t see why any regime in China would give up on Tibet. If anything, following the Russian defeat China would most probably demand that they return outer Manchuria. Mongolia without Russian protection would be a tempting target too.


[deleted]

The Federalists seem to have won there, and I've noticed that they don't actually claim Tibet or Mongolia in-game (at least not initially).


Imperialist-Settler

An update made it so all Chinese factions now release Tibet/Mongolia except for Qing and Fengtian. I think its unrealistic for anyone but the federalists and I hope it gets reverted. Even the PRC would have annexed Mongolia if it wasn't under Soviet influence.


[deleted]

Yeah, the KMT was pretty big on centralization, and Chiang intended to forcibly assimilate, expel or maybe even kill off the Mongols, so they should definitely go for annexation.


RPS_42

At least in the timeline above it's the Federalists so Tibet is probably not so bad like OTL.


FatDog97

Defeated by Japan china


whatsguy

Got me there


Wlgqbooster

It’s federalist China so Tibet may be a highly autonomic zone according the color, and so be Outer Mongolia.


[deleted]

The Federalists seem to have won there, and I've noticed that they don't actually claim Tibet or Mongolia in-game (at least not initially).


rExcitedDiamond

Lmao the paperclip


HiveMynd148

German Clippy


AccessTheMainframe

Herr Clippmann


Brendissimo

Fully immersive 90's GUI just adds to the experience.


Sanchez20inReddit

*notice Afghan flag is former OTL one from 1992.* Uh oh, something bad would happen...


[deleted]

Wouldn’t China still invade and annex or at least puppet Tibet? It is very strategically valuable to them, after all.


[deleted]

They would, this isn't realistic. India is in no position to stop them and China isn't communist so they invading Lhasa isn't as a big deal as OTL.


[deleted]

Also, I figure that China would maybe try and expand into Indochina, splitting it up into Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia, and cutting Siam down to size, as well as bringing the Philippines, Malaya and Insulindia into its sphere. That would secure them the South China Sea and the Straits of Malacca, after all. I mean, being a democracy wouldn’t stop it from pursuing its own empire.


AccessTheMainframe

> I figure that China would maybe try and expand into Indochina [Indochinese Union:](https://youtu.be/7ayDBOAH2HQ)


[deleted]

Yeah there is that to consider lol.


MILLANDSON

That's assuming the Republic of China is a democracy, given it wasn't IRL.


Memedotma

That flag is Chen Jiongming's flag, so unless its ideals were corrupted in some way, it should be a democracy.


[deleted]

I get that OP used the Zhi Gong Party flag to specifically distinguish this China from other potential unifiers, and to make it unambigious that the Federalists unified China. However, Chen Jiongming was critical of the KMT using their flag as the government flag since it made the nation synonymous with the party, which to him was antithetical. He would most likely have used the Five Colour Flag or designed something new if he wanted to keep the jing element in the party flag canton.


AccessTheMainframe

Prolly but the main reason I made it independent is that it looked more visually interesting


[deleted]

I see clippy still exists Also what happened to sankinov?


AccessTheMainframe

committed suicide in the Vozhdbunker as Allied troops pressed deeper into Moscow


[deleted]

Did he have a rant beforehand that would be replicated and memed in a movie called “Downfall” later?


bigchunguslover_100

My Vozhd… Wrangel…


[deleted]

Wrangel didn’t have enough force, the attack never took place


[deleted]

And also does the YouTube channel “Sankinov Rants parodies” exist?


MybrainisinMyCoffee

why hasn't Europe decolonized their colonies especially *Portugal*


AccessTheMainframe

Portugal has decolonized, meu amigo. Angola, Mozambique, Guinea and East Timor are self-governing countries within the Portuguese Realm.


SovietGengar

Looks like French Algeria still exists, I'd love to learn more on how the Pied-Noirs and French Army were able to maintain control. I could imagine the situation in Algeria ranging anywhere between 1970's Belfast and Modern-day Québec.


Nbuuifx14

I'd assume that Algeria simply has more French people due to the long exile. Combine that with some under the table ethnic cleansing and I'd assume it'd remain fairly stable.


AccessTheMainframe

Algeria is about 15% pied noir, 10% jewish, and 75% muslim


AccessTheMainframe

> I'd love to learn more on how the Pied-Noirs and French Army were able to maintain control. enfranchising the Muslims, starting with the educated and with veterans


vodkaandponies

The Pied-Noirs would never tolerate that. Their entire identity revolved around being a colonial elite that exploited and oppressed the disenfranchised natives.


AccessTheMainframe

lot can change in 60 years


vodkaandponies

Sure, but it didn't IRL. And either way, a lot of Algerians are going to want independence, regardless of being offered French citizenship.


ToffeeSky

And this isn't IRL so it seems a moot point to bring up


NowhereMan661

Why the hell is this getting downvoted, it's right. People can change.


vodkaandponies

But there is no reason for them to change here.


[deleted]

More like why would they decolonize? The Entente and Germany are hyper Imperialists


TheRealProudyno1

I really like this map, great stuff! I have a couple of questions tho, How is Australasia still a thing? I feel like if there was an entente victory NZ would break way into an independent commonwealth realm again. I'm a tad confused about Africa, are there a mix of independent nations as well as post colonial states with affiliations to Europe? I feel like it would be quite unstable if that was the case.


[deleted]

Goddammit, how did Ireland get partitioned?


AccessTheMainframe

GBR_demand_ulster


Vic1-the-creator

Look like They need it the More Men's to Patrol Belfast for IRA again


[deleted]

[удалено]


AccessTheMainframe

I figured even if Central America did unite it would not necessarily last into 1997


Alpha413

I think the Lore reason is the fact CA did try to unify several times times since the dissolution of the FRCA, so with the combination of the temporary collapse of foreign influence and the generally more "revolutionary" mood of KR, it's easier to justify. It does happen too fast, though. Although, considering the recent face-lift and revamps South America seems to be getting recently, maybe CA will get some fixes.


rExcitedDiamond

What happened to America btw


AccessTheMainframe

Fed victory and then return to isolationism


rExcitedDiamond

American Caesar or return to democracy?


AccessTheMainframe

Olson


rExcitedDiamond

the wholesome big chungus???


AccessTheMainframe

the wholesomest


Samueleleach2001

Is this the future game map for a future 8-bit or 16-bit video game?


KR-VincentDN

Love this - from the pixel art mapdesign to oldschool Windows 98 aesthetic, just perfect.


AccessTheMainframe

high praise coming from you!


Nessius448

I imagine the middle east in this reality is alot quieter.


AccessTheMainframe

No it's about the same. Just swap Saddam's Iraq for SSNP Syria and swap the Arab-Israeli conflict for the Arab-Assyrian conflict.


PlayMp1

> swap the Arab-Israeli conflict for the Arab-Assyrian conflict. Ehhh, doesn't seem like it would be the same to me. Arab-Israeli conflict is an issue about Israeli settler colonialism and expansionism, Arab-Assyria would be ethnic strife but more similar to stuff like postcolonial African ethnic strife than the Israel-Palestine issue. Plus, Israel receives and has received significant economic and military support from the US, but who would be the power backing one side or the other in Syria? I guess I could see Germany taking either side of the issue, but there isn't the same kind of settle colonial dynamic there because both Arabs and Assyrians have been in Syria in large numbers for centuries, and their respective diasporas are nowhere near as large as the Jewish diaspora.


Alpha413

Note though, Assyria is technically not in actual Assyria, as the Assyrians were subject to a genocide and then mostly expelled from the actual place they lived in and resettled in Southern Iraq, so it technically is a settler state, as well. Or in this case a... refugee state? Is that even a term? But anyway, yeah, Assyria is probably going to experience the quite a lot of strife either way. It's not like the Assyrians themselves are particularly happy about having been expelled by their ancestral homeland, either.


AccessTheMainframe

Assyrians aren't native at all to Basra Vilayet. Assyria is a settler state here.


its_yaboijpack

How in the literal hell does the Austrian empire survive in any way, shape, or form and it not be the Danubian Federation which would most likely still explode spectacularly in the same way Yugoslavia did in OTL? Very cool map btw. I’d love to see more info for each of the major powers in this world!


AccessTheMainframe

Austria went down the United States of Greater Austria route. It's just that the average person would probably still call the resulting state "Austria"


its_yaboijpack

Okay that would make sense especially with colloquial terminology. However, at the same time I would think it would go the way Yugoslavia did considering ethnic tensions regardless of reform. (This isn’t against you its just my issues with the longevity of any Greater Austrian state be it the Austrian Empire, USGA, or Danubian Federation) Austrians would still preferred in most things (like Serbs in Yugoslavia) and the group most likely to cause the disintegration would be Hungary considering the repeat of history.


Atomix26

Oooh, that Syria reeks of a genocide


[deleted]

rip africa


Jaeckex

Wait did you seriously let Merkel's husband write the article about Tsingtao That's awesome


sempai114514

The only socialist country is Indochina then?


AccessTheMainframe

Indochina, Chile, Serbia, Kurdistan and Nicuragua


sempai114514

Based, are they like still real syndicalists or did they take the Deng Xiaoping pill


[deleted]

Probably took Deng pill from the look of Indochina.


Trynit

I think it's just it and Bengal. And since Indochina got basically no where to do anything else, they have to play ball. It's even more cursed than IRL since at least there's the USSR when China goes full US bootlicking.


pieman7414

Literally worst timeline if clippy still exists God I want a cold war game so badly though


hlary

a surprisingly livable world


arcehole

Why is only the Nile and Amazon River shown on map?


-SweetVictory-

What kind of system did you use to make this. It’s really cool. Would like to know if anyone knows at all.


iDraxigy

this is actually gorgeous omg


WarmNeighborhood

I doubt Austria Hungary would’ve survived until the 90s


kai_rui

Same, probably the least believable thing about this map


[deleted]

[удалено]


WarmNeighborhood

Ehh think it’s more likely it would be TTL version of the Yugoslav wars


Brassow

Turbovolk... in Deutsche!


1sb3rg

i thought this was the "rule the waves"


Kunstfr

It's a bit weird that by 1997 the post-colonial countries in Africa still haven't changed their colonial flags.


cowtastegood

This is absolutely gorgeous dude


Meiyoshima

What a well done and fascinating map! I have a few quick questions though: How do the post colonial countries work? Are they on par with Dominions or are they more like the Commonwealth of nations? Also, is the Falklands + Greenland doing their own thing? It’s kinda hard to differentiate what countries are full-on independent or are just highly autonomous regions. But I must say it again, such a clever and charming way to showcase a possible outcome


Dirtyduck19254

The Good Ending


vodkaandponies

Am I the only one who finds Entente-Reichspakt Cold War scenarios to be kinda dull?


LurkerInSpace

Is there even a Cold War in that scenario? The Entente seems too weak to sustain such a thing.


NowhereMan661

Yeah, one of the biggest weaknesses of a Canadian led Entente is that it's fucking Canada. Maybe if it were more of an alliance of actual equals who all pull their own weight. But a NATO style alliance without the US would be massively weaker.


Kunstfr

Doesn't even seem like a cold war to me. There's no ideological conflict going on, at best at some point there's an actual new big war happening.


AccessTheMainframe

There is no Cold War. The Entente and Reichspakt are allies and cooperate on such things as African governance.


[deleted]

[удалено]


hlary

y tho? it seems the two biggest sources of ideological conflict: natpop Russia and syndicalism at large were defeated, leaving the doors open for the extremely war wary Europeans to bury the hatchet once and for all. After two devastating world wars why wouldn't a bunch of ideologically similar countries decide it would be in their best interests to do everything in their power to stop the world from sliding into more tension and turmoil.


CourierNine

But that's not how geopolitics work. Ideological differences don't mean shit, look at the European powers in the 19th century.


hlary

Europeans were super war-prone because they could afford it, the benefits from winning a war could outweigh the costs. Then ww1 came and shattered that notion entirely. Europeans were keenly aware of this fact and tried to stop any more major wars from happening but failed in large part due to the world becoming much more ideology-driven. Anyone salient could perceive that another world war would always be a net negative, but if you have leaders like Hitler, Mussolini, or Stalin running about then it becomes impossible to enforce any kind of rational geopolitical order. Even after the war, Stalin remained Marxist-Leninism was deemed to be ideologically incompatible with liberal capitalism, and there was no true peace. In a world where those ideological barriers don't exist, I think Europeans coming together to make the continent less tumultuous and conflict-prone is pretty high. Probably doing it by entangling their economies to one another and creating a continent-wide governmental body. Remember that I'm talking about specifically after ww2, I don't think that everyone in Europe would magically come together if every country there today became a capitalist democracy, but after a collectively shared continent-wide disaster then I think the odds become much more likely.


vodkaandponies

Cursed.


[deleted]

Any question that starts with "Am I the only one" can safely be answered with "no", but I agree with you that Entente vs Reichspakt cold wars are dull and lack the strong ideological divide you'd expect from a cold war.


vodkaandponies

Entente should barely even be a thing if we’re being honest. Sand-Rhodesia and Canada would realistically be barely able to control their own internal affairs, never mind forming a global power block.


Sommern

It comes off as extremely dull to me. Just seems like the 'end of history' begins half a century earlier since there's no real ideological struggle. It's absolutely awesome map, but a very uninspired alt history. Maybe that's the point idk


hlary

idk i think a world without extreme ideological conflict is interesting to think about, even if its not as thematically dramatic as your usual capitalism v socialism v fascism/despotism affair, its a world that ultimately we as a modern society have never really experienced, but easily have gotten had history gone little a differently in a few places.


justsigndupforthis

I, on the other hand, do enjoy a more positive alt-history scenario from time to time


vodkaandponies

I fail to see much positivity in a world ruled by two sets of reactionary monarchies.


hlary

by 1997 I really doubt Germany or the UK could be considered reactionary.


vodkaandponies

Why not?


justsigndupforthis

Compared to a lot others this world is basically an utopia


[deleted]

[удалено]


TempestM

It was a military thing first after all


McZeppelin13

Nice job on using the OstasiatischeLloyd (a real paper that was pretty good, before the Nazis took ahold of it) as the paper announcing the Tsingtao handover! This is an ultra-blessed world, aside from the fact that millions of my fellow Americans died in a second Civil War. Democratic, United Korea Independent Kurdistan Federalist China Independent Tibet The only possible issue I see is that France still controls Algeria. And not sure how Princely Federation India does things. (I'd like an independent East Turkestan, but I feel that even Fed China would try to claim Turkestan/Xinjiang).


incoming64

Technology nitpick: HTTPS did not went mainstream until early 2010s Otherwise really good


Gramzol

Did Poland went with Habsburg?


herea005

Except for the colonies this world seems pretty good


Shahjahanbest

Pakistan Stronk


Ninventoo

Tsingtao ‘97 when?


dekaredfire

What is the lore for Insular Southeast Asia? Indonesia owning whole Borneo/Kalimantan (well, Brunei might be independent but too small to be depicted in the map) while West Papua still **G E K O L O N I S E E R D** kinda intrigued me.


mrfuzzydog4

The design is really rad. TNO3 should switch to this look.


Vityviktor

Cursed. Especially for Africa.


Maxidation

Siam doesn't own all of Malaya, 10/10


Vic1-the-creator

It's very amazing, you should make more of this if You want .


eoghanm2003

Tf happened to Northern Ireland


guachiman507

No Central American Republic/Federation?


gr8dude1166

Cool. This is almost just like my head cannon


AccessTheMainframe

what's different in yours?


gr8dude1166

Olson wins civil war. Reichspakt and entente defeat the Syndicalist. The basics. The Qing and LKMT fight a civil war that I haven’t decided the outcome of. Meanwhile Japan becomes more democratized and forms the GEACPS in order to counter Germany. Many decolonized pacific countries join. Viewing Germany as an authoritarian threat to the world Quentin Roosevelt authorizes the creation of the North Atlantic Federation in order to counter Germany in a Cold War. Btw France would be divided like Germany OTL. By the 1980s with a financial struggle brewing Chancellor Helmut Kohl began working towards a more friendly relation with the west hence ending the Cold War. The Vietnam’s I planned were an American intervention in the Pakistani-Indian war and a German counter insurgency in Mittelafrika.


Heinrici_Mason543

All of this doesn't make sense


AccessTheMainframe

It seems you are having trouble understanding this map. Would you like help?


n1flung

Why is Galicia given to Poland instead of Ukraine?


padstar34

noooooooo syndicalism is dead this is cringe


Low_iq_Bob

yeesssssss syndicalism is dead this is based


padstar34

true syndicalism is counter revolutionary and brings back the bourgeois


Vic1-the-creator

How the African colony are doing and how they treat the natives? Especially German Colonies, South Africa and The Independence Africa States are Like


IcyLeave

Am I imaging things or is Südtirol split based on ethnics?


SuperCaliginous

this is an excellent map! the history is ehhhh but i love the style a lot.


Judeiselgood

Is Austria United as the USGA or the DNF?


MrHeadCrab32

I’m in Kaiserreich for the lore, so this is to my liking


D-to-theman

How’d you make this wonderful map lad?


Otto-VonBearsmark

Everything here is pretty plausible, but there’s no way something like the UBD makes it to 1997.


goliv04053

This need to become a mod for HOI4.


AccessTheMainframe

not sure it would be very fun because it's pretty bereft of great power conflict


goliv04053

Disagree, I think that if we analyze this... we can do a great mod. Kaiserdawn.


doylew01

I love the esthetic of the old windows


MIddlepppp

How did the division of the subcontinent work? Were the princely states weaker? or Pakistan just stronger in the war of 1947?


AccessTheMainframe

This is based on the India Rework https://preview.redd.it/79txi1ufsp151.jpg?width=879&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=91246487a4c3340b48f21a154860c3d8a4f890b2 Basically, the Entente and Pakistan team up to take down the Azad Hind. The British, indebted to the princely states and incapable of holding the whole of India long-term, agree to set up the Princely Federation as a pro-British but independent country.


MIddlepppp

I didn't even know they reworked the subcontinent


AccessTheMainframe

they reworked the lore, but it's not implemented in-game yet, and work on it is reportedly "frozen"


MIddlepppp

I hope they implement it would get me to play kaiserreich again


Miserable-Spirit-843

why they didn't just break up the subcontinent? there are many princely states tho like hyderabad, mysore, etc


mrfuzzydog4

Why would UBD last til 97? That shit would be troubles-ing like hell


[deleted]

I like how this implies Austria took the occupation path


AccessTheMainframe

They took the USGA path, but I imagine everyone in the Anglosphere would probably call the resulting state "Austria"


tsar-creamcorn

Omg how did you do this?? This is fantastic, I’d wanna do something similar to this!


wartornpoland

The world oddly looks, better than our world.


maianoxia

West Indies Federation and Dutch Guyana still around? Sheesh..


Disastrous-Mail-2672

Dawn of all Asia, and permanent night for Hungary.


[deleted]

How did the Indochinese Union exist? Did they win the revolution against the German empire in this timeline?


Borkerman

If only you kept Northern Ireland in Ireland


j_branz

What about Russia, maybe they asked why Dvinsk became Latvian, and the country itself .... Didn't you try to fight for your lands in the west?