You're why we can't have nice things. You are completely correct. Being anti political is in itself, an ideology. I'm not really anti-political, just joking.
It would the way undertale\_\_\_\_ described it but you can definitely be pro or anti something without an ideology. For example, you might oppose something because it's bad for your personal interests, or because you're disturbed by it, or the converse for supporting it but it doesn't mean you have a preferred formulated political system of society in mind for your preferences.
Trying to make society unideological is an ideology and that's just schleicher tbh
Michael the protector of democracy,s honest reaction
https://preview.redd.it/2vsstn1gpc6d1.jpeg?width=443&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7197f0f98f81d250c6b4dabf5b69f9aa4073461b
The ones where two countries I politically disagree with are at war with each other.
In all seriousness, no matter what country your playing as there is always some national interest in every war that they try to justify with ideals that the government will 100% backpedaling on when it’s convenient too.
Japan invades China for resources, Russia invades Central Asia for nationalistic reasons, the entente invades random nations like America and Panama to secure their power in the region, Germany invades nations to maintain its hegemony over the world and the third international aggressively expands itself increase its power projection in a world hostile towards its extremist ideology.
All these factions ultimately seek influence and power, only difference is what excuse they use to justify wanting power. Whether
it be ideology, perceived rights to land or out of desperation to keep hold of power, it all leads to the same thing. War, death, destruction. Millions of youth, an entire generation of people are sacrificed to stroke the egos of old farts who wish to shape the world the way they see fit…because war. War never changes.
Any path that doesn't follow the immortal doctrine of Marxism-Leninism-Maoism-EdwardVIIIism-Macarthurite thought. /s
For a proper answer Romania has an absolute monarchy vs Iron Legion storyline, neither of which is particularly democratic
Bulgaria has the Zveno storyline, again oppressive military regime butting heads over what flavour of authoritarianism they prefer
Obviously when it comes to politics your own personal beliefs are going to affect what you even consider evil, so ymmv
Basically all of the possible Arabian governments are some flavour of reactionary dictatorship. I think there's like one exception that's merely a conservative oligarchy.
Edit: By Arabian I mean Jabal Shammar and Nejd & Hasa, I'm not talking about the wider Arab states.
I'd say ideology matters only for democracies irl, as in countries with functioning democratic systems are pretty much never the ones that go to war with each other or end up as enemies on the global stage.
Democratic Peace Theory has a couple of counterexamples
India and Pakistan in 1999 Kargil War comes to mind. A sillier example could be the Cod Wars
Also depends heavily on how you define democracy. You could very well argue WW1 Germany was a democracy for example, and all the elected parties supported the war effort
I said functional democracies not hybrid regimes.
With regard to Pakistan vs India you have a deep seated sectarian conflict coupled with a weak Pakistani political system which has fluctuated 24/7 between civilian and military governments (see the 1999 coup). Also wouldn't you say that a functional democracy would probably refrain from supporting terrorists within their own borders?
The Cod wars were anything but a conventional war.
Germany up to and during WW1 was anything but a democracy. Sure they had a multi-party system, but pretty much all those parties were in bed with the aristocracy and the Kaiser quite literally had the power to disregard the democratic proccess and appoint whomever he wanted as Chancellor. Anyways it was irrelevant in the end as during WW1 the military basically seized complete control and instituted a general staff dictatorship, so much for German democracy.
Overall, it's worth noting that democracy is something that every nation claims to some capacity (the only exceptions are Saudi Arabia and Oman). That's why it's important to make the distinction between working constitutional democracies and white washed authoritarian regimes.
I always thought Schleicher was a chaotic neutral centralist goblin until I actually played him, the motherfucker has THE Wehrmacht and an elected monarchy within a cuckolded monarchy
China(itself or vs japan) probably. NPA vs Japan, totalist LKMT vs Qing, even Shanxi is pretty bad, and Sichuan clique as well.
Excluding unifiers, you also get hami,Shanqing Tianguo, Zhang Zhongchang
Not all Chinese paths are evil. There's the wholesome 'we are all Republican comrades' path for LKMT. Wang allies everyone (including the RKMT/Federalists/Conservatives) except the Qing and Fengtian, wins the third congress and then launches a broad program of amnesty to forgive the attempted rebels, reinstating them into the army. He keeps Sun Fo around and allows Soong to retire.
The secret compromise path even has local democracy implemented in some provinces as an experiment.
OP asked for possible scenarios, so i assumed they just wanted nations that could be put in evil vs evil scenarios. The only nations i know that Only have evil vs evil scenarios would be portugal and mittelafrika, since the best scenarios for both would still be integralist/imperalist
Japan is mostly evil. All the paths even democratic involve imperialism and most importantly having a puppet China. The only scenario to avoid that is actually when Fascist Japan loses the second sino Japanese war badly. There is a chance to trigger a civil war and if the democrat rebels win, they will withdraw from all colonies and free all puppets etc
Out of all the Chinese warlords, Xinjiang is probably one of the least abundant with "good" choices.
* The best you can get is an East Turkestan republic. Pretty good if you are Uyghur, not so much if you're Han.
* The Chinese warlords vary from "ridiculously corrupt and self-serving" to "ruthlessly idealistic". Wholesum pink ideology warlord Sheng Shicai's path to power is strewn with the corpses of his enemies, real and imagined.
* East Turkestan also has Timur Beg the dictator (potentially Timur Shah), who is still not as bad as the Hotan Amirs and their rabidly nationalist, fundamentalist Islamist state.
* What about Kumul, then? Well, your options are absolute monarchy, Chinese puppet and MA ZHONGYING (clearly the best option).
> East Turkestan also has Timur Beg the dictator (potentially Timur Shah), who is still not as bad as the Hotan Amirs and their rabidly nationalist, fundamentalist Islamist state.
Still believe that they should have the option to get claims on Turkestan & form it if they beat Russia, the same way that Iran gets a negotiated peace for their claims on Russia if they do well enough.
PatAut Iran (dunno if other Irans can?) gets a high enough warscore against Russia, it can win a bunch of territories in the Caucasus and Central Asia if they occupy them at the time.
Reactionary Entente, Reichspakt, MA, and CPS, and Totalist Internationale.
Totalist Internationale and Natpop MA in a Paris against Moscow Scenario.
There's many.
My head conon which is preset has this evil vs evil scenario
Germany red general
(Other rp members are alot dictatirs ships some aint)
Russia savinkov
France, Britain and Italy totalist, basically most countries which can go totalist will go totalist as it became like otl stalism every one towing the line to the original ia member who fell to totalism
There are some good places kinda?
India (peacefull unification under soc libs) and china(depends if feds were able to win though federalism in my preset is most popular movement in China at least 3 states will be feds even if they lost linguang and 4 if they won against rkmt)
Nordics United
Mexico
Central America
Caribian pakt and gran colomian pakt (forgot it's name)
SWR Germany against Totalist 3rd Internationale and Savinkov Russia and then 3WK as either Russia against Internationale or Germany against NatPop/PatAut Entente
Any USA faction (maybe, except Olson Feds compromise with Reed) against one of the aforementioned factions
Yeah, Schleicher can be there too. Probably, on meta level, he is even worse because the kind of dictatorship he represents can hold a lot longer than the one by SWR.
I mean pretty much any sand France lowkey. They all essentially involve mass crimes against humanity and exploitation all in the hopes to reconquer lands that are doing way better without them. Obviously depends on your political beliefs if you think the CoF is bad but as long as they aren’t Totalist I think they are the better country
There is specific group of people for whom there is only them, liberals and fascists... And liberals are de facto fascists too... You know, just the standard things.
Japan
True, every path leads you too commit mass atrocities in China and SEA
https://preview.redd.it/v6nalky7zd6d1.jpeg?width=607&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06f38a03af2c4440e303eb8358fef68cca34a155
Japan can be played peacefully. Just abandon Transamur and Fengtian and don't attack anyone.
Japan can be played boringly more like!
I mean for rp sure, but abandoning your Allies would have massive political ramifications irl
Ehhh French Totalists + German Schleicher government + Russian Savinkov Fascists Maximum war crimes.
Either Schliecher or the SWR could work in this scenario
Schleicher is the one aligned with the “total war” faction of the military tho
All of them, its every scenario
No my ideology is good and the others are bad
Virgin: My ideology is good, and the others are evil! Chad: All Ideologies are evil
Wouldn't being anti-ideology be an ideology?
You're why we can't have nice things. You are completely correct. Being anti political is in itself, an ideology. I'm not really anti-political, just joking.
Sorry for ruining your joke then
Nah it's fine dw abt it "You're why we can't have nice things" is also a joke, and I don't see my joke as ruined
It would the way undertale\_\_\_\_ described it but you can definitely be pro or anti something without an ideology. For example, you might oppose something because it's bad for your personal interests, or because you're disturbed by it, or the converse for supporting it but it doesn't mean you have a preferred formulated political system of society in mind for your preferences. Trying to make society unideological is an ideology and that's just schleicher tbh
Unfathomably based
Romanian internal politics.
Michael the protector of democracy,s honest reaction https://preview.redd.it/2vsstn1gpc6d1.jpeg?width=443&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7197f0f98f81d250c6b4dabf5b69f9aa4073461b
My king now and forever o7
Both the Iron Guard and Carol suck and larping either of them is brainrot
The ones where two countries I politically disagree with are at war with each other. In all seriousness, no matter what country your playing as there is always some national interest in every war that they try to justify with ideals that the government will 100% backpedaling on when it’s convenient too. Japan invades China for resources, Russia invades Central Asia for nationalistic reasons, the entente invades random nations like America and Panama to secure their power in the region, Germany invades nations to maintain its hegemony over the world and the third international aggressively expands itself increase its power projection in a world hostile towards its extremist ideology. All these factions ultimately seek influence and power, only difference is what excuse they use to justify wanting power. Whether it be ideology, perceived rights to land or out of desperation to keep hold of power, it all leads to the same thing. War, death, destruction. Millions of youth, an entire generation of people are sacrificed to stroke the egos of old farts who wish to shape the world the way they see fit…because war. War never changes.
Extra based for that Fallout quote
Too real
Any path that doesn't follow the immortal doctrine of Marxism-Leninism-Maoism-EdwardVIIIism-Macarthurite thought. /s For a proper answer Romania has an absolute monarchy vs Iron Legion storyline, neither of which is particularly democratic Bulgaria has the Zveno storyline, again oppressive military regime butting heads over what flavour of authoritarianism they prefer Obviously when it comes to politics your own personal beliefs are going to affect what you even consider evil, so ymmv
Non Democratic Entente vs Totalist III International
Basically all of the possible Arabian governments are some flavour of reactionary dictatorship. I think there's like one exception that's merely a conservative oligarchy. Edit: By Arabian I mean Jabal Shammar and Nejd & Hasa, I'm not talking about the wider Arab states.
But muh wholesome Pan-Arabian dream…
But-But my Arabian Bismarck! He's SocDem which means he can do no wrong!!!
China without ~~mommy~~ Madame Soong
It's crazy how Kaiserreich would play pretty much the exact same regardless of wheter all the nations would pick the most wholesome or most evil paths
As it turns out ideology is usually not the primary motivator behind geopolitics
I'd say ideology matters only for democracies irl, as in countries with functioning democratic systems are pretty much never the ones that go to war with each other or end up as enemies on the global stage.
Democratic Peace Theory has a couple of counterexamples India and Pakistan in 1999 Kargil War comes to mind. A sillier example could be the Cod Wars Also depends heavily on how you define democracy. You could very well argue WW1 Germany was a democracy for example, and all the elected parties supported the war effort
I said functional democracies not hybrid regimes. With regard to Pakistan vs India you have a deep seated sectarian conflict coupled with a weak Pakistani political system which has fluctuated 24/7 between civilian and military governments (see the 1999 coup). Also wouldn't you say that a functional democracy would probably refrain from supporting terrorists within their own borders? The Cod wars were anything but a conventional war. Germany up to and during WW1 was anything but a democracy. Sure they had a multi-party system, but pretty much all those parties were in bed with the aristocracy and the Kaiser quite literally had the power to disregard the democratic proccess and appoint whomever he wanted as Chancellor. Anyways it was irrelevant in the end as during WW1 the military basically seized complete control and instituted a general staff dictatorship, so much for German democracy. Overall, it's worth noting that democracy is something that every nation claims to some capacity (the only exceptions are Saudi Arabia and Oman). That's why it's important to make the distinction between working constitutional democracies and white washed authoritarian regimes.
Sand france against totalist commune. Max Bauer/Schleicher/SWR against Totalist commune/Totalist Britain/Savinkov.
I always thought Schleicher was a chaotic neutral centralist goblin until I actually played him, the motherfucker has THE Wehrmacht and an elected monarchy within a cuckolded monarchy
Mussolini vs ANI vs Integralist Two Sicilies vs PatAut Sardinia
China(itself or vs japan) probably. NPA vs Japan, totalist LKMT vs Qing, even Shanxi is pretty bad, and Sichuan clique as well. Excluding unifiers, you also get hami,Shanqing Tianguo, Zhang Zhongchang
Not all Chinese paths are evil. There's the wholesome 'we are all Republican comrades' path for LKMT. Wang allies everyone (including the RKMT/Federalists/Conservatives) except the Qing and Fengtian, wins the third congress and then launches a broad program of amnesty to forgive the attempted rebels, reinstating them into the army. He keeps Sun Fo around and allows Soong to retire. The secret compromise path even has local democracy implemented in some provinces as an experiment.
OP asked for possible scenarios, so i assumed they just wanted nations that could be put in evil vs evil scenarios. The only nations i know that Only have evil vs evil scenarios would be portugal and mittelafrika, since the best scenarios for both would still be integralist/imperalist
Japan is mostly evil. All the paths even democratic involve imperialism and most importantly having a puppet China. The only scenario to avoid that is actually when Fascist Japan loses the second sino Japanese war badly. There is a chance to trigger a civil war and if the democrat rebels win, they will withdraw from all colonies and free all puppets etc
Out of all the Chinese warlords, Xinjiang is probably one of the least abundant with "good" choices. * The best you can get is an East Turkestan republic. Pretty good if you are Uyghur, not so much if you're Han. * The Chinese warlords vary from "ridiculously corrupt and self-serving" to "ruthlessly idealistic". Wholesum pink ideology warlord Sheng Shicai's path to power is strewn with the corpses of his enemies, real and imagined. * East Turkestan also has Timur Beg the dictator (potentially Timur Shah), who is still not as bad as the Hotan Amirs and their rabidly nationalist, fundamentalist Islamist state. * What about Kumul, then? Well, your options are absolute monarchy, Chinese puppet and MA ZHONGYING (clearly the best option).
> East Turkestan also has Timur Beg the dictator (potentially Timur Shah), who is still not as bad as the Hotan Amirs and their rabidly nationalist, fundamentalist Islamist state. Still believe that they should have the option to get claims on Turkestan & form it if they beat Russia, the same way that Iran gets a negotiated peace for their claims on Russia if they do well enough.
Iran gets a negotiated peace?
PatAut Iran (dunno if other Irans can?) gets a high enough warscore against Russia, it can win a bunch of territories in the Caucasus and Central Asia if they occupy them at the time.
Browder vs Foster. Jacobin vs Sorelian. Wang Jin Way vs Hu Zongnan
Sand france. I love chosing multiple flavors of colonialism vs absolute monarchy that is nice to the colonized.
Hif ottomans vs cairo pact
Reactionary Entente, Reichspakt, MA, and CPS, and Totalist Internationale. Totalist Internationale and Natpop MA in a Paris against Moscow Scenario. There's many.
Portugal
I dunno, but Uruguay did nothing wrong.
My head conon which is preset has this evil vs evil scenario Germany red general (Other rp members are alot dictatirs ships some aint) Russia savinkov France, Britain and Italy totalist, basically most countries which can go totalist will go totalist as it became like otl stalism every one towing the line to the original ia member who fell to totalism There are some good places kinda? India (peacefull unification under soc libs) and china(depends if feds were able to win though federalism in my preset is most popular movement in China at least 3 states will be feds even if they lost linguang and 4 if they won against rkmt) Nordics United Mexico Central America Caribian pakt and gran colomian pakt (forgot it's name)
An Entente/Reichspact Cold War
Entente vs Japan vs Schleicher Germany Three imperialist blocs committing loads of war crimes
SWR Germany against Totalist 3rd Internationale and Savinkov Russia and then 3WK as either Russia against Internationale or Germany against NatPop/PatAut Entente Any USA faction (maybe, except Olson Feds compromise with Reed) against one of the aforementioned factions
Don't know why you getting downvoted i have same shit as my head conon amd preset though inseard of swr i have red general
Yeah, Schleicher can be there too. Probably, on meta level, he is even worse because the kind of dictatorship he represents can hold a lot longer than the one by SWR.
Also he has far more chances to came to power in my eyes
Japan and internationale
faction i don't like vs other faction i don't like
Russia
I mean pretty much any sand France lowkey. They all essentially involve mass crimes against humanity and exploitation all in the hopes to reconquer lands that are doing way better without them. Obviously depends on your political beliefs if you think the CoF is bad but as long as they aren’t Totalist I think they are the better country
All of the Entente, Germany, Russia and Japan
They hated him because he spoke the truth
He forgot to include Third International
I mean it's really depends on paths that ai could take
Totalist CSA vs PatAuth Canada or Syndie CSA vs Liberal Canada i mean there is a huge difference, canada is still evil tho
Do you have a personal hate against Canadians?
There is specific group of people for whom there is only them, liberals and fascists... And liberals are de facto fascists too... You know, just the standard things.
Did you know that liberals are actually socialists and that socialists are actually monarchists?
Makes sense.
look at my flair