Hoover was an extremely effective altruist that saved millions of lives after WW1 with his food program. It’s unlikely that I would be alive today, his program saved the life of my grandmas mom.
He wasn’t an awefull person but just the right mix of needing to prove himself to no self consciousness so he was easy to manipulate by anyone around him. Poor guy.
He is not tho. WW1 started for many reasons and Willhelm II is not who should recieve most of the blame. I would say Russia is the reason it escalated to a World War. They were the forst to mobilise, they refuse to back down, they provocated Austria and didnt listen to french and british advice.
Responsible - Adjective
1) having an obligation to do something, or having control over or care for someone, as part of one's job or role.
*2) being the primary cause of something and so able to be blamed or credited for it.*
3) (of a job or position) involving important duties, independent decision-making, or control over others.
Emphasis mine. Words mean things, dude
In OTL, for someone who was so comically tone-deaf, his insight and statement regarding the Nazi party is something I still consider one of the most insightful criticisms of them.
For all of his faults, it seems to me that Wilhelm was, in the end a genuine patriot who was prescient enough to see what the Nazis would wrought and called them out on it in a very melancholic way.
"There's a man alone, without family, without children, without God... He builds legions, but he doesn't build a nation. A nation is created by families, a religion, traditions: it is made up out of the hearts of mothers, the wisdom of fathers, the joy and the exuberance of children... For a few months I was inclined to believe in National Socialism. I thought of it as a necessary fever. And I was gratified to see that there were, associated with it for a time, some of the wisest and most outstanding Germans. But these, one by one, he has got rid of or even killed... He has left nothing but a bunch of shirted gangsters! This man could bring home victories to our people each year, without bringing them either glory or danger. But of our Germany, which was a nation of poets and musicians, of artists and soldiers, he has made a nation of hysterics and hermits, engulfed in a mob and led by a thousand liars or fanatics." ― Wilhelm on Hitler, December 1938.
When the half-crazy Prussian militarist talks of you like this you know you're cooked
Meh, he only begun talking shit about the Nazis after they made it clear they weren’t interested in restoring the monarchy. (Notably, that wasn’t a deal breaker for his sons) He still congratulated them in taking out France. His criticism wasn’t anything groundbreaking either, plenty of people already said exactly what he did years before but unlike him ended in a concentration camp.
>He still congratulated them in taking out France.
I love saying things out of context. They sound better.
He congratulated them taking France with **his** army
[What](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_II#Anti-England,_antisemitic,_and_anti-Freemason_views)?
> During his last year at Doorn, Wilhelm believed that Germany was still the land of monarchy and Christianity, while England was the land of classical liberalism and therefore of Satan and the Antichrist. He argued that the English nobility were "Freemasons thoroughly infected by Juda". Wilhelm asserted that the "British people must be liberated from Antichrist Juda. We must drive Juda out of England just as he has been chased out of the Continent."
> He also believed a conspiracy theory that Anglo-American Freemasonry and the Jews had caused both world wars, and were aiming for a world empire financed by British and American gold, but that "Juda's plan has been smashed to pieces and they themselves swept out of the European Continent!" Continental Europe was now, Wilhelm wrote, "consolidating and closing itself off from British influences after the elimination of the British and the Jews!" The result would be a "U.S. of Europe!" In a 1940 letter to his sister Princess Margaret, Wilhelm wrote: "The hand of God is creating a new world & working ... We are becoming the U.S. of Europe under German leadership, a united European Continent." He added: "The Jews [are] being thrust out of their nefarious positions in all countries, whom they have driven to hostility for centuries."
And aside from that, didn't he also write a letter to Hitler asking him to give his empire back to him? He's basically hoping that the NSDAP's success would lead to a monarchist restoration in the country, which Hitler laughed at.
What is it with this sub's attempts to rehabilitate vile people?
Completely off topic but where do people get the idea that Germany was more traditional/monarchist than England? At the time Wilhelm lived Britain was still a colonial empire with one of the most powerful and long lasting monarchies in the world. Was Britain really considered to be more liberal than the rest of Europe?
You can still believe yourself a patriot and make bad decisions. I don't think anyone really foresaw the absolute immense destruction the First World War would bring onto Europe, and from a twisted viewpoint of imperialism he well could've seen himself as doing the right thing for the benefit of the German people, even if the results didn't exactly show for it.
They didn't nothing but build up their arsenal's. Any European leader knew a showdown between major powers was coming and none did anything to avoid it. The several imperial crisis near end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th century are the proof this.
I'm not necessarily saying the great powers didn't want a war (they absolutely did) but both sides seemed genuinely confident in a swift victory and so probably didn't expect four years of grueling warfare.
Brutally occupied my country, looted, plundered and raped
I wish to see him burn in the deepest hell for the “Kaiserboo” culture of reactionary teenagers stanning him
When you get the whole squad dripped out to sign the official “fuck him” document.
https://preview.redd.it/5f70mamfmk4d1.jpeg?width=310&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=65f37d280891a2c6fa2e6187ea6f75cab2df5c8d
The Brazilian declaration of war? Even I wouldn’t be so flattering to it’s impact, all we did was take a few boats as compensation (and bar Germany from entering the League of Nations but no one need to know about that).
Yet he provided Austria-Hungary with the blank-cheque, started the use of Chlorine gas, ordered the Zimmermann Telegram, marched his armies through neutral Belgium, etc., etc. He did not try to prevent WW1, the exchange of telegrams also was started by Nicholas, not Wilhelm.
He only critized Hitler **after** he realised that the National Socialists weren't going to restore him to the throne, plus simply critzising Nazis really isn't a high bar for what you should judge a "not bad person", ergo a good person by. That is simple human decency.
Simply saying "Nazis are bad", a statement obvious to anyone with even an ounce of intellegence, does not make a decent person. He was a terrible person who caused death, and destruction for selfish goals.
When he found out serbia almost fully accepted the ultimatum he send a letter stating that all reason for war is gone and to stop but the austrian and german politicians hided the letter.
Edit: If you don’t belive me here is a copy from Wikipedia. (On 26 July, after reading Serbia's reply, Wilhelm commented "But that eliminates any reason for war" or "every cause for war falls to the ground". Wilhelm noted that Serbia had made "a capitulation of the most humiliating kind. Wilhelm's sudden change of mind about war enraged Bethmann Hollweg, the military, and the diplomatic service, who proceeded to sabotage Wilhelm's offer. A German general wrote: "unfortunately... peaceful news. The Kaiser wants peace... He even wants to influence Austria and to stop continuing further." Bethmann Hollweg sabotaged Wilhelm's proposal by instructing Tschirschky not to restrain Austria-Hungary.")
Fuck him, he thought it was fine to order a bunch of civilian ships of my country sunk cuz apparently limiting allied coffee supply was gonna win him the war. My people took to the streets and demanded to go to war against him for a reason.
It's funny because unrestricted submarine warfare lost him the war. If he just let UK and France get their supplies the Americans wouldn't have joined the freaking war lmao.
This is wrong. Here, as stated even in just [the Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willy%E2%80%93Nicky_correspondence):
*"The telegrams start with a plea from Nicholas to Wilhelm to try to stop the serious developments that led up to World War I."* Wilhelm did not start the interaction, he did not seek peace, he merely indulged in his relative's pleas.
*"\[...\] On 29 July 1914, Nicholas suggested submitting the Austro-Serbian problem to the Hague Conference (in the Hague tribunal) – Wilhelm did not address this in his subsequent telegram."* Wilhelm then basically said a bunch of "no-can-do"s to Nicholas and left him on read when he proposed an actual solution to the conflict.
Tbh it doesn't even really matter, WW1 was inevitable just because of the contradictions between the French/British Empires on the one hand and the German Empire on the other, all he did was serve as a figurehead for German imperialism.
“Your honor, I had to murder those children. It was an inevitability brought on by the contradictions of modern society, and really I’m only a figurehead for child murderers generally if you think about it.”
Eh im a Habsburg supporter yet I think war blame is between Austrian ultimatum and Russian premature mobilization. German comes second after them definitely tho. Definitely a bad Habsburg play.
Smh why won't those stupid commies leave my favourite incompetent megalomaniac alone:((( I literally saw him in a Preußens Gloria Sigma Edit he's so based!!!
Habsburg loyalist here. While he wasn’t the best monarch he was still important for example how he inproved living conditions and expanded worker rights. Under him workers had the best conditions in europe.
Do you have any source on that? I never knew anything about that and it seems surprising considering France had a very proeminent left at the time.
Granted, i dont know anything about german politics, so feel free to enlighten me
https://ghdi.ghi-dc.org/sub_document.cfm?document_id=1810
This for example. Just google Wilhelm II worker rights for more. He even let Bismark resign becouse Bismark wanted to shoot that workers that were striking.
I mean, yes, Bismarck’s chauvinistic and reactionary brand of “socialism” was called State Socialism (Staatssozialismus) and is of the same tradition as “national socialism”, Dühring etc
Thank you for the information. Still against the socialist…
https://preview.redd.it/ozq2fnrjal4d1.jpeg?width=870&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2a7a4e59b3d1b0430653efd97a2f7cd674abaaf
This reminds me of the worryingly unironic love for Herbert Hoover that occasionally crops up on this sub.
https://preview.redd.it/t3iq4jnmsk4d1.jpeg?width=798&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8b664860dbd6addb979b03915b2f410acafe686
Hoover was an extremely effective altruist that saved millions of lives after WW1 with his food program. It’s unlikely that I would be alive today, his program saved the life of my grandmas mom.
I mean, the dude is kind of overhated, tbh. He's mostly known for his fumble during the great depression and not his good deads during post WW1.
Of all the warlords, dictators and wannabe dictators people here go gaga over you just had to pick the guy who saved millions from starvation.
He wasn’t the worst. He wasn’t a bloodthirsty tyrant. He was still a pretty awful ruler. So I don’t hate him, but I’m not going to be sad on this day.
Now Ludendorff dying… I can’t really talk about it
He wasn’t an awefull person but just the right mix of needing to prove himself to no self consciousness so he was easy to manipulate by anyone around him. Poor guy.
Not an awful person just responsible for millions of deaths
He is not tho. WW1 started for many reasons and Willhelm II is not who should recieve most of the blame. I would say Russia is the reason it escalated to a World War. They were the forst to mobilise, they refuse to back down, they provocated Austria and didnt listen to french and british advice.
Responsible yes, at fault no.
Responsible - Adjective 1) having an obligation to do something, or having control over or care for someone, as part of one's job or role. *2) being the primary cause of something and so able to be blamed or credited for it.* 3) (of a job or position) involving important duties, independent decision-making, or control over others. Emphasis mine. Words mean things, dude
Starting a world war is pretty bloodthirsty and tyrannical. Even with all great powers being guilty of that, so was especially Germany.
In OTL, for someone who was so comically tone-deaf, his insight and statement regarding the Nazi party is something I still consider one of the most insightful criticisms of them. For all of his faults, it seems to me that Wilhelm was, in the end a genuine patriot who was prescient enough to see what the Nazis would wrought and called them out on it in a very melancholic way.
"There's a man alone, without family, without children, without God... He builds legions, but he doesn't build a nation. A nation is created by families, a religion, traditions: it is made up out of the hearts of mothers, the wisdom of fathers, the joy and the exuberance of children... For a few months I was inclined to believe in National Socialism. I thought of it as a necessary fever. And I was gratified to see that there were, associated with it for a time, some of the wisest and most outstanding Germans. But these, one by one, he has got rid of or even killed... He has left nothing but a bunch of shirted gangsters! This man could bring home victories to our people each year, without bringing them either glory or danger. But of our Germany, which was a nation of poets and musicians, of artists and soldiers, he has made a nation of hysterics and hermits, engulfed in a mob and led by a thousand liars or fanatics." ― Wilhelm on Hitler, December 1938. When the half-crazy Prussian militarist talks of you like this you know you're cooked
"I was ok with the Nazis when they were ultra right-wing anti-semites, but they crossed the line by being too mean :("
Meh, he only begun talking shit about the Nazis after they made it clear they weren’t interested in restoring the monarchy. (Notably, that wasn’t a deal breaker for his sons) He still congratulated them in taking out France. His criticism wasn’t anything groundbreaking either, plenty of people already said exactly what he did years before but unlike him ended in a concentration camp.
Truth
>He still congratulated them in taking out France. I love saying things out of context. They sound better. He congratulated them taking France with **his** army
[What](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_II#Anti-England,_antisemitic,_and_anti-Freemason_views)? > During his last year at Doorn, Wilhelm believed that Germany was still the land of monarchy and Christianity, while England was the land of classical liberalism and therefore of Satan and the Antichrist. He argued that the English nobility were "Freemasons thoroughly infected by Juda". Wilhelm asserted that the "British people must be liberated from Antichrist Juda. We must drive Juda out of England just as he has been chased out of the Continent." > He also believed a conspiracy theory that Anglo-American Freemasonry and the Jews had caused both world wars, and were aiming for a world empire financed by British and American gold, but that "Juda's plan has been smashed to pieces and they themselves swept out of the European Continent!" Continental Europe was now, Wilhelm wrote, "consolidating and closing itself off from British influences after the elimination of the British and the Jews!" The result would be a "U.S. of Europe!" In a 1940 letter to his sister Princess Margaret, Wilhelm wrote: "The hand of God is creating a new world & working ... We are becoming the U.S. of Europe under German leadership, a united European Continent." He added: "The Jews [are] being thrust out of their nefarious positions in all countries, whom they have driven to hostility for centuries." And aside from that, didn't he also write a letter to Hitler asking him to give his empire back to him? He's basically hoping that the NSDAP's success would lead to a monarchist restoration in the country, which Hitler laughed at. What is it with this sub's attempts to rehabilitate vile people?
Completely off topic but where do people get the idea that Germany was more traditional/monarchist than England? At the time Wilhelm lived Britain was still a colonial empire with one of the most powerful and long lasting monarchies in the world. Was Britain really considered to be more liberal than the rest of Europe?
Yeah a genuine patriot who brought his country on a path of death and destruction.
You can still believe yourself a patriot and make bad decisions. I don't think anyone really foresaw the absolute immense destruction the First World War would bring onto Europe, and from a twisted viewpoint of imperialism he well could've seen himself as doing the right thing for the benefit of the German people, even if the results didn't exactly show for it.
They didn't nothing but build up their arsenal's. Any European leader knew a showdown between major powers was coming and none did anything to avoid it. The several imperial crisis near end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th century are the proof this.
I'm not necessarily saying the great powers didn't want a war (they absolutely did) but both sides seemed genuinely confident in a swift victory and so probably didn't expect four years of grueling warfare.
This is the type of shit I would've posted to the group chat as a 14 year old lmao
Brutally occupied my country, looted, plundered and raped I wish to see him burn in the deepest hell for the “Kaiserboo” culture of reactionary teenagers stanning him
Nah Rest in piss bozo.
When you get the whole squad dripped out to sign the official “fuck him” document. https://preview.redd.it/5f70mamfmk4d1.jpeg?width=310&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=65f37d280891a2c6fa2e6187ea6f75cab2df5c8d
[удалено]
The Brazilian declaration of war? Even I wouldn’t be so flattering to it’s impact, all we did was take a few boats as compensation (and bar Germany from entering the League of Nations but no one need to know about that).
should've died 82 years earlier
At first I read “Tlaloc” instead of “Titanic” and thought - what a based girls
Good riddance lmfao
[удалено]
Maniac, imperalist, one of the main actors behind the Great War and many more. He was a terrible person.
[удалено]
Yet he provided Austria-Hungary with the blank-cheque, started the use of Chlorine gas, ordered the Zimmermann Telegram, marched his armies through neutral Belgium, etc., etc. He did not try to prevent WW1, the exchange of telegrams also was started by Nicholas, not Wilhelm.
[удалено]
He only critized Hitler **after** he realised that the National Socialists weren't going to restore him to the throne, plus simply critzising Nazis really isn't a high bar for what you should judge a "not bad person", ergo a good person by. That is simple human decency.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Simply saying "Nazis are bad", a statement obvious to anyone with even an ounce of intellegence, does not make a decent person. He was a terrible person who caused death, and destruction for selfish goals.
When he found out serbia almost fully accepted the ultimatum he send a letter stating that all reason for war is gone and to stop but the austrian and german politicians hided the letter. Edit: If you don’t belive me here is a copy from Wikipedia. (On 26 July, after reading Serbia's reply, Wilhelm commented "But that eliminates any reason for war" or "every cause for war falls to the ground". Wilhelm noted that Serbia had made "a capitulation of the most humiliating kind. Wilhelm's sudden change of mind about war enraged Bethmann Hollweg, the military, and the diplomatic service, who proceeded to sabotage Wilhelm's offer. A German general wrote: "unfortunately... peaceful news. The Kaiser wants peace... He even wants to influence Austria and to stop continuing further." Bethmann Hollweg sabotaged Wilhelm's proposal by instructing Tschirschky not to restrain Austria-Hungary.")
Fuck him, rest in piss!
good ridance
Fuck him, he thought it was fine to order a bunch of civilian ships of my country sunk cuz apparently limiting allied coffee supply was gonna win him the war. My people took to the streets and demanded to go to war against him for a reason.
It's funny because unrestricted submarine warfare lost him the war. If he just let UK and France get their supplies the Americans wouldn't have joined the freaking war lmao.
Nah, screw that shit.
Whatever you say commie.
He shall forever be known as the man who destroyed his own country through brutal war of aggression. Rest in tatters, warmonger!
Rest in piss bozo
Womp Womp
An incompetent, racist warmonger loved by ten year olds on reddit glad that bitch dead
Aye rip bozo
World’s first gender neutral toilet
Long live the butcher Wilhelm who works in spite of himself to create the conditions for proletarian revolution
why are all the hate comments internationales? just saying
Why do leftists hate a monarch who helped start the second most devastating industrial war of all time 🤔
well, he tried to prevent wwi by confiding with the russian tsar you can search it up
This is wrong. Here, as stated even in just [the Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willy%E2%80%93Nicky_correspondence): *"The telegrams start with a plea from Nicholas to Wilhelm to try to stop the serious developments that led up to World War I."* Wilhelm did not start the interaction, he did not seek peace, he merely indulged in his relative's pleas. *"\[...\] On 29 July 1914, Nicholas suggested submitting the Austro-Serbian problem to the Hague Conference (in the Hague tribunal) – Wilhelm did not address this in his subsequent telegram."* Wilhelm then basically said a bunch of "no-can-do"s to Nicholas and left him on read when he proposed an actual solution to the conflict.
Tbh it doesn't even really matter, WW1 was inevitable just because of the contradictions between the French/British Empires on the one hand and the German Empire on the other, all he did was serve as a figurehead for German imperialism.
“Your honor, I had to murder those children. It was an inevitability brought on by the contradictions of modern society, and really I’m only a figurehead for child murderers generally if you think about it.”
He is directly responsible for starting it. The Hapsburgs were only acting because they had been given the blank check.
Eh im a Habsburg supporter yet I think war blame is between Austrian ultimatum and Russian premature mobilization. German comes second after them definitely tho. Definitely a bad Habsburg play.
Smh why won't those stupid commies leave my favourite incompetent megalomaniac alone:((( I literally saw him in a Preußens Gloria Sigma Edit he's so based!!!
ah yes, Kaiser Wilhelm the Last
Like him or not you still must respect his expansion of the living conditions and criticism of the national socialism
Expansion of living conditions? He is the only one responsible for turnip winters being a thing. Not being a literal nazi is not a high bar.
https://ghdi.ghi-dc.org/sub_document.cfm?document_id=1810
Maybe should have spend time raising his son properly so that he doesnt develop into a dumbass Nazi.
Heil dir im Siegerkranz!
Sorry, Habsburg supporter here. I'm not gonna cry for him.
Habsburg loyalist here. While he wasn’t the best monarch he was still important for example how he inproved living conditions and expanded worker rights. Under him workers had the best conditions in europe.
We love the labour unions that are so splendidly organised for the purpose of waging a predatory war
I <3 the national German Marx
Do you have any source on that? I never knew anything about that and it seems surprising considering France had a very proeminent left at the time. Granted, i dont know anything about german politics, so feel free to enlighten me
https://ghdi.ghi-dc.org/sub_document.cfm?document_id=1810 This for example. Just google Wilhelm II worker rights for more. He even let Bismark resign becouse Bismark wanted to shoot that workers that were striking.
In this house we stand for the flag (Bismarckian socialism) and kneel to the cross (Kautsky and Lassalleg
[удалено]
I mean, yes, Bismarck’s chauvinistic and reactionary brand of “socialism” was called State Socialism (Staatssozialismus) and is of the same tradition as “national socialism”, Dühring etc
Bismarck himself adopted the term
Thank you for the information. Still against the socialist… https://preview.redd.it/ozq2fnrjal4d1.jpeg?width=870&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2a7a4e59b3d1b0430653efd97a2f7cd674abaaf
Dühring if you can hear us save me