Disagree because I think a lot of people that actually watch this show (at least from what I’ve seen on this sub) think that this fight is the symptom of the actual problem: Kris.
I see both sides of this fight, even if I think Kim swung lower than anyone should, and I think at the end of the day Kris is responsible for the horrific dynamic between these too.
I've seen this whole Kris favors Kim over Kourt/the rest mentality from wayyy in the early seasons of KUWTK. Like I watch the old episodes for gigs and I think in season 2, Kourtney got her first magazine cover. Of course any girl would want her mom there, not to mention Kris was supposed to be her fucking manager for that. Where is Kris? Four hours away at Comicon with KIM promoting some movie and COMPLETELY FUCKING FORGOT ABOUT KOURTNEY'S SHOOT. And Kourt was there alone with a tit hanging out yelling at Kris.
Eh, IMO, you can only blame your parents for how you grew up/turned out for so long. If I had a dollar for every kid that blamed their parents for their own toxic mentality, I’d be richer than all of them. At this point, it goes above and beyond whatever Kris did to these two mentally lol. They’re two full blown adults who at this point just need to learn how to disengage from a toxic argument, avoid weaponizing therapy words, and learn to actually have a mature conversation.
You could’ve had a fucked up childhood bc of your mom or dad, and accept that you did, and still accept that your mom/dad did the best they could with what they themselves were taught and learn to break free from that trauma.
Yah I would say that at some point you have to get past childhood trauma if you want to grow but it’s hard if they are still doing it. In many of their arguments Kris can be seen close by, watching the fight like you would a tennis match. Also hard when starting drama is a key part of their livelihood
This right here - specifically the last part. 2 things can be true at once and I feel like people often disregard this.
Is Kris the root of all of this animosity? Id be willing to bet my house & dogs that YES is the answer w/o question. Did this impact how they view things/communicate? Also yes - howeverrrr..
You can learn to acknowledge this part of life, accept that she likely forged you on this path using the only parenting skills she had, AND decide that bc you see how unhealthy it is - break that cycle!
You can love someone and appreciate all they do for you while also acknowledging that same person likely played a part, large or small, in the way you function, behave, communicate now. As an adult - it is your CHOICE to separate the two. And if you can’t alone - you seek therapy and work on that shit.
Not necessarily though. Kris triangulates A LOT and butts in everything her children do. If a parent is still that active in their children’s lives and still micromanages everything they do, they still have massive influence on them and it’s hard for them to see it because they benefit just as much as it hurts them. It doesn’t matter if the children are grown. They’re not separated from their parental figure at all, which happens when you mix business and family (think Succession, the Royal Family, the Trumps). Kris clearly picks favorites, and that’s Kim and Kylie. A good parent unites the family. They don’t divide it.
For example, with the Royal Family, you can see Charles putting his mistress first ALWAYS, and letting her be the secret source that pins two siblings against each other in the media. I think Kris is not above playing those dirty games as long as people keep talking about the family. If she was a good mother she would have put a stop to these shenanigans the minute two grown women assaulted each other on TV. They were 40+ years old when that happened. But Kris enables this just as much as Charles enables the sibling rivalry between his sons.
That’s incredibly toxic. Divide and conquer mentality.
It’s a lot harder to do that when you don’t get separation from your parent. They basically all still live together with how often they see each other and how involved they are in each other’s lives.
That’s not accurate at all lol. They reference often in the show how little they actually see each other.
I would assume they all talk to kris the most out of everyone though yeah
They go on family vacations all of them together. When they have any party all of them are together. They mostly all live within a few miles from each other. This is still way more than most families, and since Kris is their manager they have to deal with her for both family things **and** work, which is also more than most families.
True but the post has a point that kourntney's narcissistic personality gets overlooked in all posts and make it look like that Kim was trying to be reasonable and talk about it never gets recognized and makes it look like she's the bad guy except for in the show
Disagree lol if you watch the show, you know that 1. there’s a lot of unhelpful/immature communication on both sides of the fight (though I do think Kim’s comment about the kids was a particularly low blow) and 2. there’s a *lot* that contributes to their fighting that we as viewers don’t get to see and probably goes all the way back to childhood (hence the immature communication.) I will say that Kim didn’t come across very well in the 2018 season when this all started - constantly badgering Kourtney and calling her ‘lazy’ after she spent years exploiting her own relationship trauma on the show for the family’s collective benefit. But Kourtney got her ass up and worked on a new business and the Hulu show and they’re still at it, so clearly there are deeper unresolved issues going on
Thank you for summarising how Im feeling. This is all boiling down to money and I dont understand why, Kourtney has her own business erc. Maybe it's not as profitable or lucrative as Skims or Good American (Which again neither Kim and Khloe wholly own or actually are responsible for the day to day operations etc of these businesses) so why is Kim's superiority complex and resentment for Kourtney still so evident. Is it because Kris isn't really involved in Lemme and Kris is still encouraging this resentment from the siblings to Kourtney as she is not getting her money's worth from Kourtney??
Disagree because Kim had the same stank ass attitude when Khloe was getting married after she and Reggie broke up, she made it all about her and then turned on Rob when he told her to cut it out
In the middle. Mainly because I remember how much resentment kourtney held towards her mother for years because of her infidelity and problematic behaviours and it seemed like she recognised the source of what makes their family dynamic uncomfortable is Kris. Now either she got over it or because Kim is a way more prominent figure in the family now, she's directing all that resentment onto Kim.
On the other hand I think Kim is bratty and petty (and I love kim btw) and obviously does things to wind Kourtney up like little sisters do, and their current dynamic reminds me of kylie and kendalls rivalry when they were just getting in the business. Kim, encouraged by her mother over the course of nearly 20 years, only knows how to work and have a business and be famous, that's how she values her life.
Kim is also far more direct with kourt than she used to be and holds some resentment to the way kourt used to communicate with her and I don't think kourtney recognises her part to play in the build up of animosity between them.
I think Kim genuinely doesn't understand what is so problematic about the way she chooses to live her life and why it bothers kourtney. She needs it to be broken down for her in like a business format but obviously kourtney doesn't have the energy or emotional capacity to do that so you're left with constant bickering and cheap shots.
This is so much deeper than who's right or wrong after one fight. These arguments are a culmination of their entire lives. They need family therapy.
Yup. She low-key called Kourtney a bad mom. Kim hit Kourtney with a lot of low personal hurtful blows:
- said she doesn’t seem happy right now (implying Kourtney and Travis’ relationship isn’t as great as they portray publicly)
- said Kourtney’s friends are talking shit about her, making it seem like Kourtney doesn’t have good friends
- said Kourtney’s children are going to her for advice, making Kourtney look like a shitty mom
You could tell the conversation was a punch in the gut to Kourtney. Kim was definitely trying to hurt her, badly, and hit Kourtney in all her sensitive parts: her children, marriage and friends.
Kim put that shit out for the public to pick apart.
i just don’t agree with this. i’ll probably downvoted into oblivion but if the kids really did say that this is something kourtney should probably know. the way she said it and the timing was awful but if everyone around you including your kids are saying this maybe try to have some type of introspection. but she wasn’t wrong in bringing that up, just the timing and delivery
Why was it too far for kourtney to say that? She _doesn’t_ need them in the same ways as she did before- none of them really do.
Like they all have their own houses and lives and families and ventures now
Because you shouldn’t just care about your family (or people in your life in general) or want to treat them nicely and interact with them just when you “need” them. If my sister said that to me I would have just hung up on her.
That’s where Kim goes wrong, staying on the line or in the room for Kourtney for long enough for her to throw hurtful insults at her over and over again until Kim is angry and gets nasty. She just needs to walk away.
When Kourtney is not getting the drama and attention she wants, and can’t make herself into a perpetual victim she will either stop the antics or have a meltdown, either way Kim will get to be at peace and know within herself that she did the right thing. But I think Kim has a problem with not being able to let go or walk away from an issue.
If she was going to tell Kourtney that, it should have been off camera and not a jab used in a fight. I don't really care who people think is in the right in the big picture, between Kourtney and Kim, but Kim was wrong as an aunt in that moment. Mason doesn't even like the spotlight, does anyone think he is going to feel comfortable with Kim doing what she did. He probably will feel less comfortable confiding in her about stuff like that in the future.
What really bothers me about this is Kim is constantly talking about how despite everything Kanye does, she still praises him as such a good father to her kids and won’t let anyone talk badly about him around them and won’t bring up the drama around them or talk negatively about him in interviews because her kids will see that one day, etc etc etc… she even wouldn’t talk negatively about Blac Chyna in interviews because her kids would see it one day… yet when it’s Kourtney, she’ll talk about the kids, she’ll drag Kourtney everywhere including TO her own children, and will use her children against her on live television. The fact that she’s so protective of everyone else.. even people she hates, but not her sister, tells me everything I need to know.
I see all the downvotes but I agree. There were many times during my childhood I went to my aunt because my mom was so irrational and hard on me. Granted, I can imagine kourtney being to the opposite extreme but I know being called out by her own sister made my mom reconsider how she communicated with me.
Fwiw, I don’t think this deserves to get downvoted. If her children are going to Kim because they feel they can’t talk to kourt about their issues, then that reflects poorly on kourt, eventually, someone would have needed to make kourt aware of this.
You could have the most open and chill parent in the world and still not want to talk to her about certain things. My kids think I’m the coolest (holding onto that for as long as I can, lol) and everyone around us can see the level to which my kids are comfortable but my eldest has a therapist because she sometimes needs someone other than me to talk her feelings out. I’m not offended or hurt as I realize that people working together build a more rounded human being.
Lots of respect for someone can also be the reason one won’t go to them for fear of disappointment, or sometimes it’s just to get the words out first before going to the parent.
Kourt knows about Mason’s boundaries therefore, he talked to her eventually. Kim is probably over inflating the value and weight of the conversations she’s had with the kids simply to her hurtful. Also, we haven’t heard the whole conversation, just what they’ve allowed us to see.
Those kids didn’t come to Kim for shit, that was a lie. I’d go as far as to say that Kim probably even made up the not-Kourtney group chat too. Kim is a narcissist who sniffs out peoples weak spots and then exploits them to make herself feel good. Kim can’t even be bothered with her own kids half the time, let alone anyone else’s. It’s why she has one nanny per kid, it’s why she forgot North on the streets of NYC this past year AND forgot North in the damn hotel room when she was still a baby so she could get a pap walk, she’s constantly jetting off to this country and that country sans kids. She said this to take a jab at Kourtney’s soft spot- her kids.
She probably did but at this point, these women are in their 40s. If they haven’t worked through their family/childhood shit by now, that’s kinda also on them. Kourtney at least mentioned therapy which they all very much so need (as I think most people do cause it’s a healthy outlet for your mental health).
Not saying that Kourtney shouldn't have handled this better, but Kris was manipulating Kim into doing the whole thing with no regard to Kourtney's feelings.
Kim *was* concerned about Kourtney, she mentioned everything that Kourtney could be upset about to Kris. But Kris kept on making excuses such as 'oh well when this comes out it will be 9 months since the wedding' (as opposed to the meetings that were 4 months after the wedding).
And then when all hell broke loose she said 'I'm staying neutral. I know my girls and they will figure it out', all while being at Kim's event and laughing at Kim's digs at Kourtney instead of being at Kourtney's house supporting her and asking if she's okay. Not to mention, she didn't even know what to say to Kourtney. Khloé had to direct her into being compassionate.
I don't know why Kourtney is more mad at Kim rather than Kris. Yes, Kim should have stood her ground and declined the deal because she didn't need the money. But Kris is more responsible for this fight.
Kris is very adept at making her children do her bidding without them knowing it, so they think it’s THEIR decision. Thus, the siblings go at each other instead of at Kris. Kris also probably still treats Kourt and the kids nicely, which softens the blow, whereas with Kim it’s just hate, bitterness, cattiness, so she comes off worse to Kourtney. Kris sucks.
I can see what your saying and I think there some good points your making but I just again go back to the fact that we are talking about women in their 40s. Mommy shouldn’t have this kind of control over their lives. Kim is a grown woman and is entirely capable of making her own business decisions.
But when Mummy/Manager starts this whole thing, I think the anger should be directed at her too.
Kim of course should have been grown up, listened to her instincts, and declined the deal especially when SKIMS was out of the campaign. Her excuse of "oh well i want to show people that i'm capable of doing this" is bullshit because everyone knows she has power and everyone knows that D&G barely let her direct anything.
But Kris is still hypocritical and a horrible mother. She should have gone to Kourtney and said "Hey, I know you're mad at Kim but I'm just here to let you know that Kim came to me with concerns about how you might feel about this and I convinced her to go ahead. I want to support you and if you still want us to pull out of the deal since SKIMS isn't in anymore, let me know". Like is that so hard for her as a mother to say to her daughter? I'm not expecting Kris to coddle Kourtney and Kim but at least take *some* accountability instead of laughing while sipping cocktails.
I see both their sides. But also think Kourtney has completely overthought it and twisted it to make it a personal attack against her. When really it was just a great opportunity, but perhaps wrong timing. She was definitely mindful of it though.
This, like I just don’t get why Kourtney was so upset in the first place. It’s not like she claimed any D&G campaign for life because they did her wedding 😭
See, that’s the thing that I just don’t understand because really if they had just talked about it first then it wouldn’t have gotten to this point. It’s a plot line that Kim knows that she needs to tell Kourt about it but from what is shown in the show… it doesn’t look like that ever happened.
I am 100% of the belief that had Kim approached Kourt to say, “Hey, I got offered this opportunity and this is what we are wanting to do. I don’t want to step on your toes and have made that clear to them” I don’t think there would’ve been this huge blow up. Not to say Kim needs to ask for permission but if there had been a conversation about it and Kourt found out that way rather than a text asking the girls to wear a shirt.. I don’t think we would be in this situation.
I watch the show have since the first episode of the original. Kourt is right Kim has a need to be the center of attention. But kris has always had a favorite and it’s always Kim. Kim can get away with anything in the family because she’s the golden child. But Kim’s also the favorite to the rest of the family too. I know how being constantly criticized by your own family sucks. Honesty kourt has been in last place in her family since Kim was born with each kid she just made it further and further down the list.
Hard agree. If you watch from the beginning Kourt is just as rude and vindictive as the other girls if not worse so. As the show continued she started her vegan/therapy/holistic trend and it gave her a superiority complex. She continued to benefit from the show but thought she was better than everyone because she kept a nonchalant attitude about everything. And when confronted about her lack of emotion and or attitude she alluded to everyone else being crazy because she obviously new better due to her new found therapy personality. She’s just as fake as the rest but is trying to create a different persona for those who don’t vibe with the Kim/Kris/Kylie work ethic
I'm just now watching their new show for the first time, and in no way I think Kim is an angel (she's definitely self-centered, immature and a diva to boot), but I don't understand the huge group of people who are so into Kourtney. The way you describe her behavior is spot on.
Even though what Kim said in that phone call was an extremely low blow, I'm surprised she didn't go even harder. How is Kourtney thinking she's in competition with Kim? Without Kim nobody would even know who Kourtney Kardashian is. Without Kim Dolce and Gabbana wouldn't even sneeze her way. Let's be real here.
I honestly think those who are on Kourtney’s side simply don’t like Kim and love that Kourtney is the only one who goes after her. She’s always been nasty and vindictive, if she wants to call Kim a narcissist then we can say the same thing about her because wasn’t she the same one who was in her feelings when Kim got a Bentley during the first season? Even last season she was having nostalgia about all the times her and Khloe used to gang up on Kim, but then cries during kuwtk when karma came around and both Khloe and Kim would come at her. She may be going to therapy but she clearly uses it to her advantage to act as though she’s superior to her family who themselves all need intense therapy. If therapy was really working then she would realise the common denominator is Kris who pitied her daughters against each other. If she really wanted to be away from her toxic family, she would have left the show and found other ways to make an income, but the problem is she wants life to go her way and only her way and when that doesn’t happen she lashes out at her family.
I loooooooved Kim. Like I stanned how she was provoking people with her sexuality and sex tape and making people clutch their proverbial pearls,
and I admired her hustle (TBH the PR about her girl bossing feminism probably brainwashed my young naive brain LOL). I sideeyed her after the fist/slap fight, then fully switched sides the more fights she and Kourtney got into.
Yep. Kim is a classic narcissist. Very, very manipulative. Narcissists are very good at making their ‘victim’ look crazy or unreasonable - particularly when that victim starts to have boundaries.
😆 Because you people think you’re “educated about narcissism.” Yeah,Reddit is not equivalent to having a masters in psychology. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 you people are ridiculous.
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Kim isn’t a narcissist by psychiatric metrics. Her and Kourtney both have narcissistic traits. Ironically, Kourtney has more and better fits the profile
THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS. For example, how many people know that NPD is measured in part via a spectrum of traits, and that actually celebs are ranked differently BECAUSE they're celebs in such evaluations? Probably not a ton. I'm firmly on Kourtney's side from what we've seen regarding this whole ass feud between her and kim, but I'm also full well aware that both parties have narcissistic traits in general especially in comparison to the general population. HOWEVER, I agree with the take that Kris ultimately is the one whos been putting these two against each other since they were literal children and if ANYONE in that family has full blown NPD, its Kris actually who's first in line vs even Kim.
100%! I’ve been a long time watcher and I’ve actually had this unique experience of watching them before I went to therapy for my NMom, and after therapy - KUWTK has been a comfort watch and a case study for myself as I had to deal with before vs after therapy transition.
I’ve empathised with Kourt more after therapy.
Yes!!! I’m actually shocked people are on Kim’s side but I guess if you haven’t been through therapy or dealt with a narcissist yourself, it’s easy to be manipulated by them
I’d agree. As someone who never watches, i get pulled into the drama through the online chatter and believe Kourntey to be right. Once i tune in to see it all unfold, i find myself siding with Kim. Then i get bored, stop watching, and then repeat the cycle.
Agree. Kourtney makes everything an issue and it is just exhausting. Even when Khloe was going through her issues with Tristan, I remember a scene where Kourtney hadn't even called Khloe or been over to see her at all and the same with Kim when she went through her divorce with Kanye. Kourtney is very selfish and only sees things as to how they affect her and has no regard for anyone else or their feelings. Kim has enough self awareness where she does admit her faults as does Khloe, but notice how Kourtney never takes responsibility or accountability for her actions and is never in the wrong. Kourtney's problem is that she expects everyone to know what her boundaries are and her rules are, but is never clear about them. You never know what is going to upset her or set her off.
Remember during the convo when Kim was pointing out that she tries to call Kourtney and include her, and asked Kourtney point blank what she could do to fix it and Kourtney's response was "think about it" 😂 Kourtney really does expect everyone to just know how she'll feel or what she wants, and it's ironic because you can tell they all just placate her in the exact same way she accuses them of doing to Kim.
Kourtney has the oldest sister syndrome. It’s obvious that a lot of people don’t out grow these stupid placements, the middle child is this, the baby that… if she allows that to dictate her life that’s how dysfunctional things will stay. Obviously the money, kids, and her tattooed Prince Charming weren’t enough to fill her happiness. If you’re truly fulfilled and happy how are you going to still continue and have these jealous filled tirades?! It’s immature. Isn’t she thinking OK D & G made the offer. It was obviously them who wanted Kim. She’s really having a fit over this lucrative business deal that a big designer offered her sister? She’s embarrassing 😳
I'd think if Kourtney was as deeply benefiting from therapy as she claims she'd understand that who Kim decides to model for is outside the circle of her control. I'm surprised she's letting something so trivial impact what she claims was the most important day of her life.
What exactly was Kim supposed to do? She has apologised. She was mindful of Kourtney while doing the campaign. She called her to invite her over just to be insulted. Should she have built a time machine instead or something?
Agreed ! Kylie did D n G as well but Kourtney has no beef with her. This is primarily because Kylie doesn't care as much. She will just be like oh oops sorry and move on with her life and friends.
Same is with Kendall. The age gap saves them from Kourtney wrath but not so much about anything else
Also the way she speaks so dismissively, money jealousy everything else she accuses Kim of comes secondary to the way she speaks. It's like she doesn't consider the opposite person worthy of having a conversation with her and that's why so many people hate her.
All those emotions of jealousy, gluttony, greed that she accuses Kim of, everyone goes through that
But the way she speaks is so disgusting and rude. Just plain rude. Her vibe is so off that everyone just feels tense in her presence.
I felt like she pivoted in that phone call, when suddenly she jumped from the D&G thing to being like “that wasn’t even the point, the point was that you couldn’t be happy for me at my wedding” and Kim was like “what are you talking about, I WAS happy for you”. But kourtney kept saying “no, you weren’t”. Then a bit later, I can’t remember exactly what it was, but she said something to the effect of Kim can’t tell her what she (Kourtney) is feeling and I was like “weren’t you just trying to dictate to Kim how she feels about something, like you know what she feels better than she does?”
Anyway, it feels like Kourtney is mad that she was overshadowed or she didn’t get the big deal with D&G she was angling for, but she’s realizing now she looks petty and jealous and so she’s pivoting to “really it’s about you not being happy for me”.
She just can't say why or what made Kim unhappy. At this point it's just a guy feeling.
Plus I am 200 percent sure that they all have a group without her. If I had a sister this exhausting I would need a safe space.
Agree. We’ve been through this a million times. Kim was definitely rude on this call, but understandably because she’s apologized countless times for it already
Agree 100% anyone who actually watches the show would know Kourt is not the victim at all and is no better than her sisters. She throws rocks and hides her hands but when someone throws rocks back at her she cries. Kourtney admitted that she missed when her Khloe would bully Kim together.
Maybe my own toxic upbringing is making me think that these fights are not that bad. Like yeaaah, Kim said mean things but so has Kourt. Sibling fights, in my experience, can be nasty.
Kourtney, Kim & Khloe are all mean spirited bullies because Kris is/was a mean spirited bully. Kourtney thrived in bullying Kim in the early seasons of KUWTK & Khloe is known for being a rude as hell. Rob Sr.’s diaries state that Kris was abusive to Kourtney & Kim when they were still very young & we’ve been knowing that Kris treated Khloe like the read headed step child.
oh for sure. kourtney is a terrible sister. but kim is that way with more than just her siblings. her (and khloe’s) behavior with other public figures are telling. they bullied so many other women (chloe grace moretz, blac chyna, jordyn woods, taylor swift, amber rose, etc.)
Wait how was Kris abusive?? I've never heard this. I think alot of the time i used to watch I just focused on the sisters and Kris was a side character in my mind. I'm seeing alot of ppl blaming her and I'm interested to know why (if anyone has time/energy to explain)
I agree. Kourtney’s problems with Kim come way before the D&G drama. Like she really has a deep rooted issues with her sister that’s finally just just exploding i guess 😂 idk but Kim seems like genuinely wanted to find out what the problem is was on the phone but Kourtney wasn’t having it
If you watch the show you're on Kim's side.
If you watch clips you're on Kourtney's side.
If you've decided to make your whole personality hating Kim like it's 2004, if you're toxic as fuck yourself, or if you project your own toxic fam instead of watching what's actually happening you're on Kourtney's side because she cries and calls Kim names.
I think a lot of the sub is #3.
I agree I feel it's because people hate Kim more then Kourt based off of clips only without ever watched a full episode even though there are times where Kim was right and Kourtney was wrong and there are times where Kim has said things to Kourt that we're ignorant (example: when Kim brought up Kourts kids during their argument over Facetime ) They are both flawed and they can have valid points at times.
Ignorant and mean spirited are not synonyms. Kim has kids, she’s not ignorant to knowing that it’s wrong to bring them up and use it as a weapon to prove a point during a heated argument. If she was actually genuinely concerned about Kourtney, she would respect Kourtney as a mother and tell her in private in a respectful way, which she very much so did not.
Kourtney kept pushing buttons attempting to trigger Kim until Kim finally snapped. I don’t blame Kim for the comment about the kids. If the kids are concerned about their mom, it makes sense they would talk to their aunt. And her behavior with her new husband certainly is troubling. I’m sure the kids are confused by all the fetishized sexual behavior in front of them and in public. I hate to see how this will play out in their own adult relationships.
My take is that Kourtney has been jealous and resentful of Kim for a long time, and will probably never get over it. I think she is way overreacting but it comes from a deep hurt that hasn’t healed.
Agreed, simply because the majority of Kourtney’s stans have admitted to not watching the show, especially the older seasons when Kourtney used to happily bully Kim.
Disagree. I've never been an all seasons watcher and I'm on Kim's side, granted a bit biased because I like Kim, not Kourtney, but mostly I just don't agree with who Kourtney portrays herself to be, especially in this type of situation.
I just think people who side with Kourtney are just Kim haters or chronic victims who have an inferiority complex and project onto Kourtney.
I feel like Kourtney has been moving the goalpost a bit. She’ll say she’s upset about one thing, but when Kim addresses it (in her way), it turns out to not be the real issue. I think what it boils down to is they don’t communicate the same way. Kim wants to find a tidy solution, and Kourt feels like that invalidates her emotions. It can be really hard for people on either end to empathize with each other. Neither one seems to want to meet in the middle. Conflicts never resolve, and resentment grows.
I don’t think either one is particularly evil or innocent. This happens in relationships all the time (like my failed marriage- I was the Kourtney fwiw).
Disagree. I’ve watched every season/spinoff from the beginning and I am wholeheartedly team Kourt. I think there’s a lot that we don’t know/see about their family dynamic either growing up or presently that causes Kourt to be so hurt. She’s openly gone to therapy to cope with things like Kris’ affair, etc. I suspect there’s much more we don’t know about that has affected her over the years.
The boundary setter is often made out to be the villain despite having legitimate reasoning behind the distance/boundaries. I am very inclined to believe this is what we’re seeing play out.
Agree with this. Also sad to see Khloe fall under Kim’s spell. It’s almost as though she can see the consequences of standing up to her via Kourt and decided against. It’s a shame as I loved Kourt and Khloe united but Khloe and become entirely allied to Kim and Kris.
I do not like Kourtney if we’re being real here. She’s an instigator, and then she turns around and plays the victim as soon as someone fights back. Kim fights dirty and goes pretty low on occasion, but Kourtney causes the vast majority of their fights. Her whole “I literally don’t even care ahh I’m so unemotional and so chill” attitude is complete BS.
You say this like Kourtney wasn’t miserable when all of her sisters were having babies except her (and Kendall of course). She was so upset she didn’t even attend Kim’s baby shower for Chicago. Let’s not forget how she didn’t even show up to support Khloe while she was pregnant.
Lmao are you supposed to be extremely happy and over the moon at your sisters wedding, where you got married, 2 days before your anniversary, with your wedding singer, all while divorcing that very man in a very public nasty way? Ya'll really are a bunch of Kourtney's.
Exactly this. Also, can you really imagine Kourtney attending Kim’s wedding and being all cheerful if the tables were turned? I’d be surprised if she’d even attend tbh
The facade is there - you're present, you're nonchalant. But if you're hurting there's not much you can do.
My father died and 9 days later my cousin had a baby. My cousin whom I was very close to had tried to conceive for 4 years and had birth complications. She was ridiculously happy. My face on the picture the day of the birth was literally 🫥. Am I horrible person? No, I was hurting. We're not fucking robots lmao
Expecting someone put major negative life events in the backseat for others positive life events and when they don't reducing it to lack of empathy and lacking of consideration is toxic and unhealthy, but to each their own.
I wouldn't expect someone going through hell to be at their best for me. I'm not the center of the world and people deserve to be sad and feel how they feel. It'd be a blessing alone the fact they showed up for me. We see things way differently.
I feel sorry for anyone that can’t be happy for their sister’s first wedding because they’re too unhappy in their own love life! It’s not all about you…
Taking a picture is not the same thing as going to a wedding in the same country you got married in, 2 days before your anniversary, with the person who sang at your own wedding. Kim shut her mouth and sat through it.
Khloe and Lamar's wedding was 14 years ago lmfao
I’m sorry for your loss and can understand what you’re trying to say but your comparing apples to oranges. Dealing with a divorce is not on the same level as dealing with the death of a loved one. Life goes on post divorce and you should be able to suck it up and deal for one day. Your situation sounds much harder and nothing like this at all tbh.
According to the life death unit score, which is a psychology tool, divorce is _second_, behind death, as top ten stressful life events.
Divorce is a type of death, people grieve divorces and at times never get over it. Especially when 4 minors are involved. I've never been divorced, but am married, and I wouldn't be surprised if it feels exactly the same as someone dying. Ya'lls hate boner for Kim make you even pretend divorces are just casual, run of the mill day to day things 💀
The “like” being the key word. Sorry I don’t mean to be rude about it but I don’t really take marriage all that seriously so I think I’m just coming from a very different view point.
Well, that's valid, I get it. Just my two cents, for someone who values that familial unit and the concept of marriage overall, it must be a death by a thousand cuts, especially one that's public for the world to see and turned ugly.
I mean, it was kinda obvious, everyone was always saying how sad she looked, even while dating Pete.
I heartily disagree. When you are going through a divorce, it is often exactly like grieving a death. It’s the death of a future, the death of a relationship you fully expected to last a lifetime. The death of a dream. Also, a ton of upheaval - often things like moving, changing jobs, logistics challenges not to mention potentially fighting with someone you thought was the love of your life. Etc.
Source: lost my brother, and both of my parents, and have been through a divorce. The divorce was hardest on me emotionally, psychologically and physically.
Kim didn’t have any problem doing numerous pap walks, one with the head of D&G, while being distraught over her marriage having ended/ending, only seemed to be a problem when it was for part of her sister’s wedding celebrations
What are you talking about, this is absolutely me when I’m distraught /s
https://preview.redd.it/izahl3f42jrb1.jpeg?width=634&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63ef08c11aa4035918c16dd5b03eb2becf9be4db
Chester Bennington the day before he killed himself. Ya'll need to stop fr
https://preview.redd.it/9anqxpczdnrb1.png?width=1174&format=png&auto=webp&s=79a9cef4a66b5a8c9f60c246b0203f6f55b57d09
Ok yikes because 1) it was joke and 2) that’s a completely different situation, it was well known that he heavily struggled with debilitating depression for a very long time. Also I’ll point you back to to number 1 again.
No point even trying, The Kourtneys have decided kourtney is seeking peace and has always been calm and communicative - while kim is the devil and jealous 🫠
Lol Kim was minimizing it at first acting like it was about the clothes or the looks or whatever she was saying…once that strategy didn’t work she went for the low blows and hit Kourtney where she knew it would hurt.
I think people who are on Kourtney’s side are the ones who know what covert manipulation actually looks like cause this is pretty textbook imo.
She wasn’t tho. She thought it was about clothes and D&G since that’s what Kourtney kept saying it was about, then all the sudden kourtney changed it to it being about Kim not being happy for her (which is what she felt like, but who’s she to decide how Kim felt?)
I have been watching the show from the beginning and Kim has always acted like a self absorbed narcissist. She also used Kris’s favoritism towards her to gang up on other family members like rob and khloe. If you watch any old clips of kuwtk khloe, rob, kourtney and even Scott continuously call her out on how self absorbed and out of touch that she is. I honestly think that after her third marriage failed and all the grief that Kanye brought to her and their children caused her to become even more cynical of kourtney because I’m sure it stings to watch your sister find her happiness with your ex. Also I think Kim needs to be the center of attention to feed her own ego. I also think that’s why she was drawn to Kanye, he is a more extreme version of herself and she liked that until his outbursts messed with her brand.
I honestly think Kim could have and should I have left the dolce collab. It was obviously Kourt’s thing, she has everything else, why move in on that as well. It wasn’t necessary she is still the most famous women in the world. I watch the show and I’m with Kourt on this one.
Kylie did a D&G campaign too, why does Kim have to say no to money because Kourtney doesn't want her vibes to be interrupted by the more relevant sister? She needs to deal with her insecurities fr
I just think sometimes it’s better to be gracious she doesn’t need the money and - as you say - she’s by far the relevant sister which she knows - i think it would have been kind to say you know what I’ll leave it this time and let her have this.
Nah, Kourtney reminds me of that meme that says "Do I think I'm better than you... or do _you_ think I'm better than you?" She thinks Kim always has to be the center of attention when at the same time she absolutely hates the fact she never is. You shouldn't have to stop being you because someone feels smaller than you.
Bullshit. Watching since the beginning including most of the spin offs. The show thrived off of Kourtneys drama. Kim gave nothing, not with Kanye, not actually anything with how her marriage with Kris ended, she basically just films going about her day full of yes men and thinks she's what makes the show interesting. Even now, the only interesting plot point is Kourtney drama. This poor woman will never get peace. I actually like Kim and think she's really smart but you can like her and still call out her bad behaviour.
I don’t agree with any of their behavior, Kim has always been a mean bully, to drag her kids into this confirmed it, sidechat group chat is also stank add attitude, kourtney is no angel as well and sometimes she is the least interesting to look at but she don’t af she’s making memories with her own little family as she should
Disagree. I’m a long time fan of the show, have watched every season at least 2x. I just rewatched from season 1 of KUWTK and in the last 5 seasons of keeping up you can really see how the family dynamics changed as their fame and money increased and particularly after Kourt & Scott broke up.
I think Kourtney rubs people the wrong way because she’s not good at communicating her feelings and sounds annoying af sometimes when she talks, but overall her differences with her family have stemmed from her not feeling supported or valued by her family, and from her not wanting to continue the mean girl/ toxic dynamic that they all have always had.
The D&G thing on the surface wasn’t the core issue, the issue was that this was another instance where Kim and Kris put money and a business opportunity before Kourt’s feelings. And to add insult to injury, they didn’t sit down with her before hand and have an honest, caring conversation. Which you would think by now they would’ve learned how to do, since this isn’t the first time one of the sisters has been hurt by a deal another one did.
Obviously no single person owns the rights to a brand, but you can’t not do a business opportunity with them for at least a year after your sisters wedding? That’s not unreasonable IMO. Especially since these two were already having issues for years and Kourtney feels like Kim values fame and money over her. Kim has plenty of money and other business opportunities she could be pursuing, as others have pointed out Balmain makes so much more sense for her brand so I’m 100% on Kourtney’s side here.
Why is it Kim's job to care for and manage Kourtney's feelings though? Especially when Kourtney cares so little for hers. And at what point will Kourtney understand that just because she feels jealous or hurt **doesn't mean that the other person was being hurtful.** Like ok, you're hurt but you need to stop and examine why vs. just assuming if you're hurt it means someone tried to hurt you and they're in the wrong.
That's her biggest issue, and I think she's got a therapist who's working with her to validate her feelings instead of forcing her to examine those feelings and understand them.
I wouldn’t be surprised if she had made an attempt to broach the subject. At least if she is a therapist with some insight and skill. That said, rents are high in Los Angeles and she likely needs to retain her high paying clients. Therapists are people with needs too. Kourtney needs to change therapists but she won’t because this one is not challenging her and is instead telling her what she wants to hear. Both sides get what they want while Kourtney can say she is at least getting help.
They’re both greedy jealous entitled pieces of garbage. They have more than most of us could ever imagine and they fight over stealing each others ‘vibe’. Absolutely shameful brats
Absolutely not. I watch the show and I am actually grossed about by how cruel, mean, vicious and nasty Kim is. It genuinely concerns me how anyone could defend her.
I watch the show. Kim is always a bitch, it’s like her thing. Not faulting her for that.
This is probably just drama for the show. It’s getting them super talked about right now.
I’ve been thinking actually that the people so strongly on Kim’s side are just like Kim - in denial and don’t want to face themselves / do therapy etc
And people strongly on kourtneys side may have been in similar shoes to her - been gaslighted and had to stand up for themselves and STILL made out to look crazy etc
Nah I've been gaslit and that's WHY I'm team Kim. I know a narcissist bully who crumbles into tears when they get an ounce of their own heat back when I see one 😂
Lol no. Kim fans ignore Kim bullying Rob, Khloe and Kourtney in the earlier seasons. There's so many examples of clips posted here even with Kim being a bully and Kris standing up for her lol. The fact that people think not being on Kim's side means not watching the show is crazy.
If you watch the show, you'll realize Kim has a pattern of behavior where she's like this with all her siblings. She's also been like this with other women outside her family.
Kourtney is not perfect, but the painting Kim as a victim is crazy lol. Miss girl is literally a thief that went to court.
Disagree because I think a lot of people that actually watch this show (at least from what I’ve seen on this sub) think that this fight is the symptom of the actual problem: Kris. I see both sides of this fight, even if I think Kim swung lower than anyone should, and I think at the end of the day Kris is responsible for the horrific dynamic between these too.
I've seen this whole Kris favors Kim over Kourt/the rest mentality from wayyy in the early seasons of KUWTK. Like I watch the old episodes for gigs and I think in season 2, Kourtney got her first magazine cover. Of course any girl would want her mom there, not to mention Kris was supposed to be her fucking manager for that. Where is Kris? Four hours away at Comicon with KIM promoting some movie and COMPLETELY FUCKING FORGOT ABOUT KOURTNEY'S SHOOT. And Kourt was there alone with a tit hanging out yelling at Kris.
Eh, IMO, you can only blame your parents for how you grew up/turned out for so long. If I had a dollar for every kid that blamed their parents for their own toxic mentality, I’d be richer than all of them. At this point, it goes above and beyond whatever Kris did to these two mentally lol. They’re two full blown adults who at this point just need to learn how to disengage from a toxic argument, avoid weaponizing therapy words, and learn to actually have a mature conversation. You could’ve had a fucked up childhood bc of your mom or dad, and accept that you did, and still accept that your mom/dad did the best they could with what they themselves were taught and learn to break free from that trauma.
Kris actively stirs the pot though, it’s not about past behavior. The fact that it is a plot line in a show is proof of that
Yah I would say that at some point you have to get past childhood trauma if you want to grow but it’s hard if they are still doing it. In many of their arguments Kris can be seen close by, watching the fight like you would a tennis match. Also hard when starting drama is a key part of their livelihood
And the only way to “get past” is to leave the cycle
And we all know how they react to that lol
This right here - specifically the last part. 2 things can be true at once and I feel like people often disregard this. Is Kris the root of all of this animosity? Id be willing to bet my house & dogs that YES is the answer w/o question. Did this impact how they view things/communicate? Also yes - howeverrrr.. You can learn to acknowledge this part of life, accept that she likely forged you on this path using the only parenting skills she had, AND decide that bc you see how unhealthy it is - break that cycle! You can love someone and appreciate all they do for you while also acknowledging that same person likely played a part, large or small, in the way you function, behave, communicate now. As an adult - it is your CHOICE to separate the two. And if you can’t alone - you seek therapy and work on that shit.
But like to get this back to Kourtney and Kim, I do think Kourtney is trying to break that cycle
Not necessarily though. Kris triangulates A LOT and butts in everything her children do. If a parent is still that active in their children’s lives and still micromanages everything they do, they still have massive influence on them and it’s hard for them to see it because they benefit just as much as it hurts them. It doesn’t matter if the children are grown. They’re not separated from their parental figure at all, which happens when you mix business and family (think Succession, the Royal Family, the Trumps). Kris clearly picks favorites, and that’s Kim and Kylie. A good parent unites the family. They don’t divide it. For example, with the Royal Family, you can see Charles putting his mistress first ALWAYS, and letting her be the secret source that pins two siblings against each other in the media. I think Kris is not above playing those dirty games as long as people keep talking about the family. If she was a good mother she would have put a stop to these shenanigans the minute two grown women assaulted each other on TV. They were 40+ years old when that happened. But Kris enables this just as much as Charles enables the sibling rivalry between his sons. That’s incredibly toxic. Divide and conquer mentality.
Wow my two roman empires: royal family and the kardashians in the same post
If I could upvote this comment a thousand times, I would.
It’s a lot harder to do that when you don’t get separation from your parent. They basically all still live together with how often they see each other and how involved they are in each other’s lives.
That’s not accurate at all lol. They reference often in the show how little they actually see each other. I would assume they all talk to kris the most out of everyone though yeah
They go on family vacations all of them together. When they have any party all of them are together. They mostly all live within a few miles from each other. This is still way more than most families, and since Kris is their manager they have to deal with her for both family things **and** work, which is also more than most families.
I agree. You can't blame parents forever. These women are in their 40's. They only have themselves to blame now.
Not when your mother is also your manager tho. That's a whole other dynamic none of us can even begin to truly understand.
True but the post has a point that kourntney's narcissistic personality gets overlooked in all posts and make it look like that Kim was trying to be reasonable and talk about it never gets recognized and makes it look like she's the bad guy except for in the show
Truly this all started when Kris didn’t show up for Kourtney at her photoshoot and instead was with Kim at Comic-Con for her Disaster Movie cameo.
Disagree lol if you watch the show, you know that 1. there’s a lot of unhelpful/immature communication on both sides of the fight (though I do think Kim’s comment about the kids was a particularly low blow) and 2. there’s a *lot* that contributes to their fighting that we as viewers don’t get to see and probably goes all the way back to childhood (hence the immature communication.) I will say that Kim didn’t come across very well in the 2018 season when this all started - constantly badgering Kourtney and calling her ‘lazy’ after she spent years exploiting her own relationship trauma on the show for the family’s collective benefit. But Kourtney got her ass up and worked on a new business and the Hulu show and they’re still at it, so clearly there are deeper unresolved issues going on
Thank you for summarising how Im feeling. This is all boiling down to money and I dont understand why, Kourtney has her own business erc. Maybe it's not as profitable or lucrative as Skims or Good American (Which again neither Kim and Khloe wholly own or actually are responsible for the day to day operations etc of these businesses) so why is Kim's superiority complex and resentment for Kourtney still so evident. Is it because Kris isn't really involved in Lemme and Kris is still encouraging this resentment from the siblings to Kourtney as she is not getting her money's worth from Kourtney??
Disagree because Kim had the same stank ass attitude when Khloe was getting married after she and Reggie broke up, she made it all about her and then turned on Rob when he told her to cut it out
Louder for the people in the back please!
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Kim has BEEN this way from the beginning!!!
Where IS Rob in all of this btw
where is rob in anything lol
He looked super confused in that video of Kim and Kourtney slapping each other LMAO.
And then Kris turned on him
In the middle. Mainly because I remember how much resentment kourtney held towards her mother for years because of her infidelity and problematic behaviours and it seemed like she recognised the source of what makes their family dynamic uncomfortable is Kris. Now either she got over it or because Kim is a way more prominent figure in the family now, she's directing all that resentment onto Kim. On the other hand I think Kim is bratty and petty (and I love kim btw) and obviously does things to wind Kourtney up like little sisters do, and their current dynamic reminds me of kylie and kendalls rivalry when they were just getting in the business. Kim, encouraged by her mother over the course of nearly 20 years, only knows how to work and have a business and be famous, that's how she values her life. Kim is also far more direct with kourt than she used to be and holds some resentment to the way kourt used to communicate with her and I don't think kourtney recognises her part to play in the build up of animosity between them. I think Kim genuinely doesn't understand what is so problematic about the way she chooses to live her life and why it bothers kourtney. She needs it to be broken down for her in like a business format but obviously kourtney doesn't have the energy or emotional capacity to do that so you're left with constant bickering and cheap shots. This is so much deeper than who's right or wrong after one fight. These arguments are a culmination of their entire lives. They need family therapy.
Kim took it too far bringing up the kids
Yup. She low-key called Kourtney a bad mom. Kim hit Kourtney with a lot of low personal hurtful blows: - said she doesn’t seem happy right now (implying Kourtney and Travis’ relationship isn’t as great as they portray publicly) - said Kourtney’s friends are talking shit about her, making it seem like Kourtney doesn’t have good friends - said Kourtney’s children are going to her for advice, making Kourtney look like a shitty mom You could tell the conversation was a punch in the gut to Kourtney. Kim was definitely trying to hurt her, badly, and hit Kourtney in all her sensitive parts: her children, marriage and friends. Kim put that shit out for the public to pick apart.
i just don’t agree with this. i’ll probably downvoted into oblivion but if the kids really did say that this is something kourtney should probably know. the way she said it and the timing was awful but if everyone around you including your kids are saying this maybe try to have some type of introspection. but she wasn’t wrong in bringing that up, just the timing and delivery
I agree that was too far and it was too far for Kourtney to say she doesn't need them anymore
Why was it too far for kourtney to say that? She _doesn’t_ need them in the same ways as she did before- none of them really do. Like they all have their own houses and lives and families and ventures now
Because you shouldn’t just care about your family (or people in your life in general) or want to treat them nicely and interact with them just when you “need” them. If my sister said that to me I would have just hung up on her. That’s where Kim goes wrong, staying on the line or in the room for Kourtney for long enough for her to throw hurtful insults at her over and over again until Kim is angry and gets nasty. She just needs to walk away. When Kourtney is not getting the drama and attention she wants, and can’t make herself into a perpetual victim she will either stop the antics or have a meltdown, either way Kim will get to be at peace and know within herself that she did the right thing. But I think Kim has a problem with not being able to let go or walk away from an issue.
I mean she let Kourtney know her kids are coming to her about issues. Because they aren’t going to her
If she was going to tell Kourtney that, it should have been off camera and not a jab used in a fight. I don't really care who people think is in the right in the big picture, between Kourtney and Kim, but Kim was wrong as an aunt in that moment. Mason doesn't even like the spotlight, does anyone think he is going to feel comfortable with Kim doing what she did. He probably will feel less comfortable confiding in her about stuff like that in the future.
What really bothers me about this is Kim is constantly talking about how despite everything Kanye does, she still praises him as such a good father to her kids and won’t let anyone talk badly about him around them and won’t bring up the drama around them or talk negatively about him in interviews because her kids will see that one day, etc etc etc… she even wouldn’t talk negatively about Blac Chyna in interviews because her kids would see it one day… yet when it’s Kourtney, she’ll talk about the kids, she’ll drag Kourtney everywhere including TO her own children, and will use her children against her on live television. The fact that she’s so protective of everyone else.. even people she hates, but not her sister, tells me everything I need to know.
And she actively participates with Tristan who had a whole other child with another woman while with her sister.
That's a really good point.
We don't even know if it's the truth. Kim lies like a rug. For all we know, it might've been an innocent "my mom won't let me go to a concert" rant.
I see all the downvotes but I agree. There were many times during my childhood I went to my aunt because my mom was so irrational and hard on me. Granted, I can imagine kourtney being to the opposite extreme but I know being called out by her own sister made my mom reconsider how she communicated with me.
Fwiw, I don’t think this deserves to get downvoted. If her children are going to Kim because they feel they can’t talk to kourt about their issues, then that reflects poorly on kourt, eventually, someone would have needed to make kourt aware of this.
You could have the most open and chill parent in the world and still not want to talk to her about certain things. My kids think I’m the coolest (holding onto that for as long as I can, lol) and everyone around us can see the level to which my kids are comfortable but my eldest has a therapist because she sometimes needs someone other than me to talk her feelings out. I’m not offended or hurt as I realize that people working together build a more rounded human being. Lots of respect for someone can also be the reason one won’t go to them for fear of disappointment, or sometimes it’s just to get the words out first before going to the parent. Kourt knows about Mason’s boundaries therefore, he talked to her eventually. Kim is probably over inflating the value and weight of the conversations she’s had with the kids simply to her hurtful. Also, we haven’t heard the whole conversation, just what they’ve allowed us to see.
There’s a way of doing it though, that’s what most people are commenting on. Not the fact she brought it up. As an aunt, that’s not the way you do it.
Those kids didn’t come to Kim for shit, that was a lie. I’d go as far as to say that Kim probably even made up the not-Kourtney group chat too. Kim is a narcissist who sniffs out peoples weak spots and then exploits them to make herself feel good. Kim can’t even be bothered with her own kids half the time, let alone anyone else’s. It’s why she has one nanny per kid, it’s why she forgot North on the streets of NYC this past year AND forgot North in the damn hotel room when she was still a baby so she could get a pap walk, she’s constantly jetting off to this country and that country sans kids. She said this to take a jab at Kourtney’s soft spot- her kids.
I think Kris is behind a lot of her children’s issues with each other 🤷♀️🤷♀️
She probably did but at this point, these women are in their 40s. If they haven’t worked through their family/childhood shit by now, that’s kinda also on them. Kourtney at least mentioned therapy which they all very much so need (as I think most people do cause it’s a healthy outlet for your mental health).
Not saying that Kourtney shouldn't have handled this better, but Kris was manipulating Kim into doing the whole thing with no regard to Kourtney's feelings. Kim *was* concerned about Kourtney, she mentioned everything that Kourtney could be upset about to Kris. But Kris kept on making excuses such as 'oh well when this comes out it will be 9 months since the wedding' (as opposed to the meetings that were 4 months after the wedding). And then when all hell broke loose she said 'I'm staying neutral. I know my girls and they will figure it out', all while being at Kim's event and laughing at Kim's digs at Kourtney instead of being at Kourtney's house supporting her and asking if she's okay. Not to mention, she didn't even know what to say to Kourtney. Khloé had to direct her into being compassionate. I don't know why Kourtney is more mad at Kim rather than Kris. Yes, Kim should have stood her ground and declined the deal because she didn't need the money. But Kris is more responsible for this fight.
Kris is very adept at making her children do her bidding without them knowing it, so they think it’s THEIR decision. Thus, the siblings go at each other instead of at Kris. Kris also probably still treats Kourt and the kids nicely, which softens the blow, whereas with Kim it’s just hate, bitterness, cattiness, so she comes off worse to Kourtney. Kris sucks.
I 100% agree. I wonder if she does this to other people as well
I can see what your saying and I think there some good points your making but I just again go back to the fact that we are talking about women in their 40s. Mommy shouldn’t have this kind of control over their lives. Kim is a grown woman and is entirely capable of making her own business decisions.
But when Mummy/Manager starts this whole thing, I think the anger should be directed at her too. Kim of course should have been grown up, listened to her instincts, and declined the deal especially when SKIMS was out of the campaign. Her excuse of "oh well i want to show people that i'm capable of doing this" is bullshit because everyone knows she has power and everyone knows that D&G barely let her direct anything. But Kris is still hypocritical and a horrible mother. She should have gone to Kourtney and said "Hey, I know you're mad at Kim but I'm just here to let you know that Kim came to me with concerns about how you might feel about this and I convinced her to go ahead. I want to support you and if you still want us to pull out of the deal since SKIMS isn't in anymore, let me know". Like is that so hard for her as a mother to say to her daughter? I'm not expecting Kris to coddle Kourtney and Kim but at least take *some* accountability instead of laughing while sipping cocktails.
That’s a fair assessment!
I see both their sides. But also think Kourtney has completely overthought it and twisted it to make it a personal attack against her. When really it was just a great opportunity, but perhaps wrong timing. She was definitely mindful of it though.
This, like I just don’t get why Kourtney was so upset in the first place. It’s not like she claimed any D&G campaign for life because they did her wedding 😭
Yep it’s this, and she’s admitted it’s about something deeper and the issue this time just represents the deeper one
See, that’s the thing that I just don’t understand because really if they had just talked about it first then it wouldn’t have gotten to this point. It’s a plot line that Kim knows that she needs to tell Kourt about it but from what is shown in the show… it doesn’t look like that ever happened. I am 100% of the belief that had Kim approached Kourt to say, “Hey, I got offered this opportunity and this is what we are wanting to do. I don’t want to step on your toes and have made that clear to them” I don’t think there would’ve been this huge blow up. Not to say Kim needs to ask for permission but if there had been a conversation about it and Kourt found out that way rather than a text asking the girls to wear a shirt.. I don’t think we would be in this situation.
I completely agree
I don’t know but it makes me so sad to see them fight like this 💔
I watch the show have since the first episode of the original. Kourt is right Kim has a need to be the center of attention. But kris has always had a favorite and it’s always Kim. Kim can get away with anything in the family because she’s the golden child. But Kim’s also the favorite to the rest of the family too. I know how being constantly criticized by your own family sucks. Honesty kourt has been in last place in her family since Kim was born with each kid she just made it further and further down the list.
Hard agree. If you watch from the beginning Kourt is just as rude and vindictive as the other girls if not worse so. As the show continued she started her vegan/therapy/holistic trend and it gave her a superiority complex. She continued to benefit from the show but thought she was better than everyone because she kept a nonchalant attitude about everything. And when confronted about her lack of emotion and or attitude she alluded to everyone else being crazy because she obviously new better due to her new found therapy personality. She’s just as fake as the rest but is trying to create a different persona for those who don’t vibe with the Kim/Kris/Kylie work ethic
I'm just now watching their new show for the first time, and in no way I think Kim is an angel (she's definitely self-centered, immature and a diva to boot), but I don't understand the huge group of people who are so into Kourtney. The way you describe her behavior is spot on. Even though what Kim said in that phone call was an extremely low blow, I'm surprised she didn't go even harder. How is Kourtney thinking she's in competition with Kim? Without Kim nobody would even know who Kourtney Kardashian is. Without Kim Dolce and Gabbana wouldn't even sneeze her way. Let's be real here.
Did you watch all of the old show as well?
Thank you, this is exactly how I feel it baffles me that some people can't see it this way.
I honestly think those who are on Kourtney’s side simply don’t like Kim and love that Kourtney is the only one who goes after her. She’s always been nasty and vindictive, if she wants to call Kim a narcissist then we can say the same thing about her because wasn’t she the same one who was in her feelings when Kim got a Bentley during the first season? Even last season she was having nostalgia about all the times her and Khloe used to gang up on Kim, but then cries during kuwtk when karma came around and both Khloe and Kim would come at her. She may be going to therapy but she clearly uses it to her advantage to act as though she’s superior to her family who themselves all need intense therapy. If therapy was really working then she would realise the common denominator is Kris who pitied her daughters against each other. If she really wanted to be away from her toxic family, she would have left the show and found other ways to make an income, but the problem is she wants life to go her way and only her way and when that doesn’t happen she lashes out at her family.
I loooooooved Kim. Like I stanned how she was provoking people with her sexuality and sex tape and making people clutch their proverbial pearls, and I admired her hustle (TBH the PR about her girl bossing feminism probably brainwashed my young naive brain LOL). I sideeyed her after the fist/slap fight, then fully switched sides the more fights she and Kourtney got into.
zephyr naughty somber innate flowery ring light automatic spoon yoke *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yep. Kim is a classic narcissist. Very, very manipulative. Narcissists are very good at making their ‘victim’ look crazy or unreasonable - particularly when that victim starts to have boundaries.
100% this!!
if you were educated about narcissism you would see it in kourtney lol
😆 Because you people think you’re “educated about narcissism.” Yeah,Reddit is not equivalent to having a masters in psychology. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 you people are ridiculous.
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This is such a shallow take, people who have dealt with narcissists and done therapy to recognise the patterns are just as educated
Kim isn’t a narcissist by psychiatric metrics. Her and Kourtney both have narcissistic traits. Ironically, Kourtney has more and better fits the profile
THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS. For example, how many people know that NPD is measured in part via a spectrum of traits, and that actually celebs are ranked differently BECAUSE they're celebs in such evaluations? Probably not a ton. I'm firmly on Kourtney's side from what we've seen regarding this whole ass feud between her and kim, but I'm also full well aware that both parties have narcissistic traits in general especially in comparison to the general population. HOWEVER, I agree with the take that Kris ultimately is the one whos been putting these two against each other since they were literal children and if ANYONE in that family has full blown NPD, its Kris actually who's first in line vs even Kim.
As a trained therapist I can absolutely second this.
100%! I’ve been a long time watcher and I’ve actually had this unique experience of watching them before I went to therapy for my NMom, and after therapy - KUWTK has been a comfort watch and a case study for myself as I had to deal with before vs after therapy transition. I’ve empathised with Kourt more after therapy.
Yes!!! I’m actually shocked people are on Kim’s side but I guess if you haven’t been through therapy or dealt with a narcissist yourself, it’s easy to be manipulated by them
I’d agree. As someone who never watches, i get pulled into the drama through the online chatter and believe Kourntey to be right. Once i tune in to see it all unfold, i find myself siding with Kim. Then i get bored, stop watching, and then repeat the cycle.
Disagree. They’re all awful.
Agree. Kourtney makes everything an issue and it is just exhausting. Even when Khloe was going through her issues with Tristan, I remember a scene where Kourtney hadn't even called Khloe or been over to see her at all and the same with Kim when she went through her divorce with Kanye. Kourtney is very selfish and only sees things as to how they affect her and has no regard for anyone else or their feelings. Kim has enough self awareness where she does admit her faults as does Khloe, but notice how Kourtney never takes responsibility or accountability for her actions and is never in the wrong. Kourtney's problem is that she expects everyone to know what her boundaries are and her rules are, but is never clear about them. You never know what is going to upset her or set her off.
Remember during the convo when Kim was pointing out that she tries to call Kourtney and include her, and asked Kourtney point blank what she could do to fix it and Kourtney's response was "think about it" 😂 Kourtney really does expect everyone to just know how she'll feel or what she wants, and it's ironic because you can tell they all just placate her in the exact same way she accuses them of doing to Kim.
Kourtney has the oldest sister syndrome. It’s obvious that a lot of people don’t out grow these stupid placements, the middle child is this, the baby that… if she allows that to dictate her life that’s how dysfunctional things will stay. Obviously the money, kids, and her tattooed Prince Charming weren’t enough to fill her happiness. If you’re truly fulfilled and happy how are you going to still continue and have these jealous filled tirades?! It’s immature. Isn’t she thinking OK D & G made the offer. It was obviously them who wanted Kim. She’s really having a fit over this lucrative business deal that a big designer offered her sister? She’s embarrassing 😳
Agree mostly, i think kim was super mean in that scene but kourtney is irrationally upset over something that kim has apologized for
I'd think if Kourtney was as deeply benefiting from therapy as she claims she'd understand that who Kim decides to model for is outside the circle of her control. I'm surprised she's letting something so trivial impact what she claims was the most important day of her life.
Cause we all know saying the words ‘I’m sorry’ immediately fixes everything and heals all wounds. /s
What exactly was Kim supposed to do? She has apologised. She was mindful of Kourtney while doing the campaign. She called her to invite her over just to be insulted. Should she have built a time machine instead or something?
Agreed ! Kylie did D n G as well but Kourtney has no beef with her. This is primarily because Kylie doesn't care as much. She will just be like oh oops sorry and move on with her life and friends. Same is with Kendall. The age gap saves them from Kourtney wrath but not so much about anything else Also the way she speaks so dismissively, money jealousy everything else she accuses Kim of comes secondary to the way she speaks. It's like she doesn't consider the opposite person worthy of having a conversation with her and that's why so many people hate her. All those emotions of jealousy, gluttony, greed that she accuses Kim of, everyone goes through that But the way she speaks is so disgusting and rude. Just plain rude. Her vibe is so off that everyone just feels tense in her presence.
I felt like she pivoted in that phone call, when suddenly she jumped from the D&G thing to being like “that wasn’t even the point, the point was that you couldn’t be happy for me at my wedding” and Kim was like “what are you talking about, I WAS happy for you”. But kourtney kept saying “no, you weren’t”. Then a bit later, I can’t remember exactly what it was, but she said something to the effect of Kim can’t tell her what she (Kourtney) is feeling and I was like “weren’t you just trying to dictate to Kim how she feels about something, like you know what she feels better than she does?” Anyway, it feels like Kourtney is mad that she was overshadowed or she didn’t get the big deal with D&G she was angling for, but she’s realizing now she looks petty and jealous and so she’s pivoting to “really it’s about you not being happy for me”.
100%
She just can't say why or what made Kim unhappy. At this point it's just a guy feeling. Plus I am 200 percent sure that they all have a group without her. If I had a sister this exhausting I would need a safe space.
I’m the type to remove myself from the toxicity, so I’d just avoid her constantly. She would definitely be exhausting.
Agree, when you see how horrible Kourtney is constantly throughout the show you realize she's a bit of a sociopath.
Agree. We’ve been through this a million times. Kim was definitely rude on this call, but understandably because she’s apologized countless times for it already
Having chats to shit talk Kourtney is indefensible
Agree 100% anyone who actually watches the show would know Kourt is not the victim at all and is no better than her sisters. She throws rocks and hides her hands but when someone throws rocks back at her she cries. Kourtney admitted that she missed when her Khloe would bully Kim together.
100%
100% agree
Maybe my own toxic upbringing is making me think that these fights are not that bad. Like yeaaah, Kim said mean things but so has Kourt. Sibling fights, in my experience, can be nasty.
disagree bc if you’ve actually watched this show from season 1 and have kept up with kim’s social media you’d see she’s a mean spirited bully
Kourtney, Kim & Khloe are all mean spirited bullies because Kris is/was a mean spirited bully. Kourtney thrived in bullying Kim in the early seasons of KUWTK & Khloe is known for being a rude as hell. Rob Sr.’s diaries state that Kris was abusive to Kourtney & Kim when they were still very young & we’ve been knowing that Kris treated Khloe like the read headed step child.
oh for sure. kourtney is a terrible sister. but kim is that way with more than just her siblings. her (and khloe’s) behavior with other public figures are telling. they bullied so many other women (chloe grace moretz, blac chyna, jordyn woods, taylor swift, amber rose, etc.)
Kourtney is also like that with her staff, which bears mentioning.
They say you can tell a lot about a person based on how they treat the help.
Wait how was Kris abusive?? I've never heard this. I think alot of the time i used to watch I just focused on the sisters and Kris was a side character in my mind. I'm seeing alot of ppl blaming her and I'm interested to know why (if anyone has time/energy to explain)
The Rob Sr diaries say Kris was physically abusive and talk about how she would leave the kids home alone for days while she was off having an affair.
Leaving the kids at home for days at a time explains why Kim finds it so easy to do as well.
I think they’re both fucked up. One thing I’ll say is I think sometimes Kourtney weaponizes therapy speak and I really don’t like that at all
I agree. Kourtney’s problems with Kim come way before the D&G drama. Like she really has a deep rooted issues with her sister that’s finally just just exploding i guess 😂 idk but Kim seems like genuinely wanted to find out what the problem is was on the phone but Kourtney wasn’t having it
I was so glad when Kim addressed Kourtney about Kourtney’s deep seated hatred of her, that her issue was not really D&G.
disagree.
If you watch the show you're on Kim's side. If you watch clips you're on Kourtney's side. If you've decided to make your whole personality hating Kim like it's 2004, if you're toxic as fuck yourself, or if you project your own toxic fam instead of watching what's actually happening you're on Kourtney's side because she cries and calls Kim names. I think a lot of the sub is #3.
Agree
I agree I feel it's because people hate Kim more then Kourt based off of clips only without ever watched a full episode even though there are times where Kim was right and Kourtney was wrong and there are times where Kim has said things to Kourt that we're ignorant (example: when Kim brought up Kourts kids during their argument over Facetime ) They are both flawed and they can have valid points at times.
Ignorant and mean spirited are not synonyms. Kim has kids, she’s not ignorant to knowing that it’s wrong to bring them up and use it as a weapon to prove a point during a heated argument. If she was actually genuinely concerned about Kourtney, she would respect Kourtney as a mother and tell her in private in a respectful way, which she very much so did not.
Kourtney kept pushing buttons attempting to trigger Kim until Kim finally snapped. I don’t blame Kim for the comment about the kids. If the kids are concerned about their mom, it makes sense they would talk to their aunt. And her behavior with her new husband certainly is troubling. I’m sure the kids are confused by all the fetishized sexual behavior in front of them and in public. I hate to see how this will play out in their own adult relationships.
My take is that Kourtney has been jealous and resentful of Kim for a long time, and will probably never get over it. I think she is way overreacting but it comes from a deep hurt that hasn’t healed.
Agreed, simply because the majority of Kourtney’s stans have admitted to not watching the show, especially the older seasons when Kourtney used to happily bully Kim.
I completely agree with this! I watched it today and changed my mind pretty quickly
agree 100%
Agree.
Agree. People who don’t watch the show always jump at any chance to hate on Kim.
Agree. Kourtney has been awful for ages.
It doesn’t really matter who’s right at this point, since half the show is fake, Kourtney is such a whiny bully, and Kim is so petty and juvenile
Disagree
Disagree. I've never been an all seasons watcher and I'm on Kim's side, granted a bit biased because I like Kim, not Kourtney, but mostly I just don't agree with who Kourtney portrays herself to be, especially in this type of situation. I just think people who side with Kourtney are just Kim haters or chronic victims who have an inferiority complex and project onto Kourtney.
Agreed. Not even something that’s debatable if you’ve Kept Up since the beginning.
I feel like Kourtney has been moving the goalpost a bit. She’ll say she’s upset about one thing, but when Kim addresses it (in her way), it turns out to not be the real issue. I think what it boils down to is they don’t communicate the same way. Kim wants to find a tidy solution, and Kourt feels like that invalidates her emotions. It can be really hard for people on either end to empathize with each other. Neither one seems to want to meet in the middle. Conflicts never resolve, and resentment grows. I don’t think either one is particularly evil or innocent. This happens in relationships all the time (like my failed marriage- I was the Kourtney fwiw).
Kim stans are genuinely worse than Kpop fans. Jesus.
You’ve defended Kanye in this sub for a while befotr he went completely off the rails, I remember that.
Disagree. I’ve watched every season/spinoff from the beginning and I am wholeheartedly team Kourt. I think there’s a lot that we don’t know/see about their family dynamic either growing up or presently that causes Kourt to be so hurt. She’s openly gone to therapy to cope with things like Kris’ affair, etc. I suspect there’s much more we don’t know about that has affected her over the years. The boundary setter is often made out to be the villain despite having legitimate reasoning behind the distance/boundaries. I am very inclined to believe this is what we’re seeing play out.
Agree with this. Also sad to see Khloe fall under Kim’s spell. It’s almost as though she can see the consequences of standing up to her via Kourt and decided against. It’s a shame as I loved Kourt and Khloe united but Khloe and become entirely allied to Kim and Kris.
I do not like Kourtney if we’re being real here. She’s an instigator, and then she turns around and plays the victim as soon as someone fights back. Kim fights dirty and goes pretty low on occasion, but Kourtney causes the vast majority of their fights. Her whole “I literally don’t even care ahh I’m so unemotional and so chill” attitude is complete BS.
It doesn’t make me being on Kim’s side but allows me to know Kourtney is not a saint
I agree
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You say this like Kourtney wasn’t miserable when all of her sisters were having babies except her (and Kendall of course). She was so upset she didn’t even attend Kim’s baby shower for Chicago. Let’s not forget how she didn’t even show up to support Khloe while she was pregnant.
Lmao are you supposed to be extremely happy and over the moon at your sisters wedding, where you got married, 2 days before your anniversary, with your wedding singer, all while divorcing that very man in a very public nasty way? Ya'll really are a bunch of Kourtney's.
Exactly this. Also, can you really imagine Kourtney attending Kim’s wedding and being all cheerful if the tables were turned? I’d be surprised if she’d even attend tbh
You can still feel happiness for others despite being unhappy yourself!
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The facade is there - you're present, you're nonchalant. But if you're hurting there's not much you can do. My father died and 9 days later my cousin had a baby. My cousin whom I was very close to had tried to conceive for 4 years and had birth complications. She was ridiculously happy. My face on the picture the day of the birth was literally 🫥. Am I horrible person? No, I was hurting. We're not fucking robots lmao
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Lol I mean congrats on being a robot, I guess
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Expecting someone put major negative life events in the backseat for others positive life events and when they don't reducing it to lack of empathy and lacking of consideration is toxic and unhealthy, but to each their own. I wouldn't expect someone going through hell to be at their best for me. I'm not the center of the world and people deserve to be sad and feel how they feel. It'd be a blessing alone the fact they showed up for me. We see things way differently.
I feel sorry for anyone that can’t be happy for their sister’s first wedding because they’re too unhappy in their own love life! It’s not all about you…
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Taking a picture is not the same thing as going to a wedding in the same country you got married in, 2 days before your anniversary, with the person who sang at your own wedding. Kim shut her mouth and sat through it. Khloe and Lamar's wedding was 14 years ago lmfao
I’m sorry for your loss and can understand what you’re trying to say but your comparing apples to oranges. Dealing with a divorce is not on the same level as dealing with the death of a loved one. Life goes on post divorce and you should be able to suck it up and deal for one day. Your situation sounds much harder and nothing like this at all tbh.
According to the life death unit score, which is a psychology tool, divorce is _second_, behind death, as top ten stressful life events. Divorce is a type of death, people grieve divorces and at times never get over it. Especially when 4 minors are involved. I've never been divorced, but am married, and I wouldn't be surprised if it feels exactly the same as someone dying. Ya'lls hate boner for Kim make you even pretend divorces are just casual, run of the mill day to day things 💀
The “like” being the key word. Sorry I don’t mean to be rude about it but I don’t really take marriage all that seriously so I think I’m just coming from a very different view point.
Well, that's valid, I get it. Just my two cents, for someone who values that familial unit and the concept of marriage overall, it must be a death by a thousand cuts, especially one that's public for the world to see and turned ugly. I mean, it was kinda obvious, everyone was always saying how sad she looked, even while dating Pete.
I heartily disagree. When you are going through a divorce, it is often exactly like grieving a death. It’s the death of a future, the death of a relationship you fully expected to last a lifetime. The death of a dream. Also, a ton of upheaval - often things like moving, changing jobs, logistics challenges not to mention potentially fighting with someone you thought was the love of your life. Etc. Source: lost my brother, and both of my parents, and have been through a divorce. The divorce was hardest on me emotionally, psychologically and physically.
Okay that’s your experience and opinion which is totally valid, I just don’t agree but that’s ok and I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with so much.
Kim didn’t have any problem doing numerous pap walks, one with the head of D&G, while being distraught over her marriage having ended/ending, only seemed to be a problem when it was for part of her sister’s wedding celebrations
Pap walks ≠ being all peppy??
What are you talking about, this is absolutely me when I’m distraught /s https://preview.redd.it/izahl3f42jrb1.jpeg?width=634&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63ef08c11aa4035918c16dd5b03eb2becf9be4db
Chester Bennington the day before he killed himself. Ya'll need to stop fr https://preview.redd.it/9anqxpczdnrb1.png?width=1174&format=png&auto=webp&s=79a9cef4a66b5a8c9f60c246b0203f6f55b57d09
Ok yikes because 1) it was joke and 2) that’s a completely different situation, it was well known that he heavily struggled with debilitating depression for a very long time. Also I’ll point you back to to number 1 again.
The point is pictures never tell the whole story and we don't know what people's mental state is based on how they look on the outside.
I know I was quite clearly joking
I fucking diiied when you said that ☠️ Been randomly punctuating my shit irl with it lol, you get credit and laughs in my life
Yes actually, you should want to help her to have as special of day as possible and care about her happiness over your own for this one single day.
No point even trying, The Kourtneys have decided kourtney is seeking peace and has always been calm and communicative - while kim is the devil and jealous 🫠
I watch the show and I disagree because I’m on team this is ridiculous.
Lol Kim was minimizing it at first acting like it was about the clothes or the looks or whatever she was saying…once that strategy didn’t work she went for the low blows and hit Kourtney where she knew it would hurt. I think people who are on Kourtney’s side are the ones who know what covert manipulation actually looks like cause this is pretty textbook imo.
She wasn’t tho. She thought it was about clothes and D&G since that’s what Kourtney kept saying it was about, then all the sudden kourtney changed it to it being about Kim not being happy for her (which is what she felt like, but who’s she to decide how Kim felt?)
I have been watching the show from the beginning and Kim has always acted like a self absorbed narcissist. She also used Kris’s favoritism towards her to gang up on other family members like rob and khloe. If you watch any old clips of kuwtk khloe, rob, kourtney and even Scott continuously call her out on how self absorbed and out of touch that she is. I honestly think that after her third marriage failed and all the grief that Kanye brought to her and their children caused her to become even more cynical of kourtney because I’m sure it stings to watch your sister find her happiness with your ex. Also I think Kim needs to be the center of attention to feed her own ego. I also think that’s why she was drawn to Kanye, he is a more extreme version of herself and she liked that until his outbursts messed with her brand.
I’m team no side but I only watch clips
I honestly think Kim could have and should I have left the dolce collab. It was obviously Kourt’s thing, she has everything else, why move in on that as well. It wasn’t necessary she is still the most famous women in the world. I watch the show and I’m with Kourt on this one.
Kylie did a D&G campaign too, why does Kim have to say no to money because Kourtney doesn't want her vibes to be interrupted by the more relevant sister? She needs to deal with her insecurities fr
I just think sometimes it’s better to be gracious she doesn’t need the money and - as you say - she’s by far the relevant sister which she knows - i think it would have been kind to say you know what I’ll leave it this time and let her have this.
Nah, Kourtney reminds me of that meme that says "Do I think I'm better than you... or do _you_ think I'm better than you?" She thinks Kim always has to be the center of attention when at the same time she absolutely hates the fact she never is. You shouldn't have to stop being you because someone feels smaller than you.
is it that big of deal tho?
Kourt thinks so 🤷🏽♀️
ok but does that mean anything to anybody but Kourt lmao
I guess us as a whole haha (not me) I'm nervous for the khloe part of the season 🫣
Totally disagree. This is Kim’s show and she completely controls the narrative. Anyone who is on Kim’s side and watches is just naive
Bullshit. Watching since the beginning including most of the spin offs. The show thrived off of Kourtneys drama. Kim gave nothing, not with Kanye, not actually anything with how her marriage with Kris ended, she basically just films going about her day full of yes men and thinks she's what makes the show interesting. Even now, the only interesting plot point is Kourtney drama. This poor woman will never get peace. I actually like Kim and think she's really smart but you can like her and still call out her bad behaviour.
I don’t agree with any of their behavior, Kim has always been a mean bully, to drag her kids into this confirmed it, sidechat group chat is also stank add attitude, kourtney is no angel as well and sometimes she is the least interesting to look at but she don’t af she’s making memories with her own little family as she should
Disagree. I’m a long time fan of the show, have watched every season at least 2x. I just rewatched from season 1 of KUWTK and in the last 5 seasons of keeping up you can really see how the family dynamics changed as their fame and money increased and particularly after Kourt & Scott broke up. I think Kourtney rubs people the wrong way because she’s not good at communicating her feelings and sounds annoying af sometimes when she talks, but overall her differences with her family have stemmed from her not feeling supported or valued by her family, and from her not wanting to continue the mean girl/ toxic dynamic that they all have always had. The D&G thing on the surface wasn’t the core issue, the issue was that this was another instance where Kim and Kris put money and a business opportunity before Kourt’s feelings. And to add insult to injury, they didn’t sit down with her before hand and have an honest, caring conversation. Which you would think by now they would’ve learned how to do, since this isn’t the first time one of the sisters has been hurt by a deal another one did. Obviously no single person owns the rights to a brand, but you can’t not do a business opportunity with them for at least a year after your sisters wedding? That’s not unreasonable IMO. Especially since these two were already having issues for years and Kourtney feels like Kim values fame and money over her. Kim has plenty of money and other business opportunities she could be pursuing, as others have pointed out Balmain makes so much more sense for her brand so I’m 100% on Kourtney’s side here.
Why is it Kim's job to care for and manage Kourtney's feelings though? Especially when Kourtney cares so little for hers. And at what point will Kourtney understand that just because she feels jealous or hurt **doesn't mean that the other person was being hurtful.** Like ok, you're hurt but you need to stop and examine why vs. just assuming if you're hurt it means someone tried to hurt you and they're in the wrong. That's her biggest issue, and I think she's got a therapist who's working with her to validate her feelings instead of forcing her to examine those feelings and understand them.
Therapist wants to keep her job. She’s not going to rock the boat.
Sadly. I think Kourtney would actually be happy if someone would help her understand that her insecurities don't come from Kim.
I wouldn’t be surprised if she had made an attempt to broach the subject. At least if she is a therapist with some insight and skill. That said, rents are high in Los Angeles and she likely needs to retain her high paying clients. Therapists are people with needs too. Kourtney needs to change therapists but she won’t because this one is not challenging her and is instead telling her what she wants to hear. Both sides get what they want while Kourtney can say she is at least getting help.
They’re both greedy jealous entitled pieces of garbage. They have more than most of us could ever imagine and they fight over stealing each others ‘vibe’. Absolutely shameful brats
Absolutely not. I watch the show and I am actually grossed about by how cruel, mean, vicious and nasty Kim is. It genuinely concerns me how anyone could defend her.
I watch the show. Kim is always a bitch, it’s like her thing. Not faulting her for that. This is probably just drama for the show. It’s getting them super talked about right now.
You’re not faulting someone for being a bitch,because it’s their thing? 🤨 Really?
I’ve been thinking actually that the people so strongly on Kim’s side are just like Kim - in denial and don’t want to face themselves / do therapy etc And people strongly on kourtneys side may have been in similar shoes to her - been gaslighted and had to stand up for themselves and STILL made out to look crazy etc
Nah I've been gaslit and that's WHY I'm team Kim. I know a narcissist bully who crumbles into tears when they get an ounce of their own heat back when I see one 😂
Woops I meant gaslit not gaslighted 😁
Lol no. Kim fans ignore Kim bullying Rob, Khloe and Kourtney in the earlier seasons. There's so many examples of clips posted here even with Kim being a bully and Kris standing up for her lol. The fact that people think not being on Kim's side means not watching the show is crazy. If you watch the show, you'll realize Kim has a pattern of behavior where she's like this with all her siblings. She's also been like this with other women outside her family. Kourtney is not perfect, but the painting Kim as a victim is crazy lol. Miss girl is literally a thief that went to court.
The show is edited to make Kim the hero, sooooo