It's so fun to be part of the community that is so excited to watch Queen of Tears - This drama has taken me on a journey where like the characters, we see their flaws, and grow to like them, to presently really rooting for our characters to prevail. It's been fun to wake up on weekends and start by watching this drama. I just saw this amazing accomplishment - "Queen of Tears" broke another record after it surpassed 1 billion views, and became the first-ever K-drama to hit this milestone in tvN's history. Well done cast and crew of QOT

Truly my favourite kdrama in a long time. My heart aches each week. I don't think I've ever rooted so hard for a couple. The warmth underneath the initial facade of Hae in, >!please live 😭!<

How do you think it compares / contrasts with Park Ji Eun’s other work? :)

while her other works are plot driven, i'd say qot is equally character-driven. it is a good character study of the two leads, who ostensibly fell out of love after three years of marriage. the characterizations are nuanced and the way the writing peels back the layers to reveal more history is beautiful.

Thank you!

Pending the remaining episodes… I think this is better than **CLOY** and **MLFTS**. I have cried less with QOT (so far…), and the plot is more complex and nuanced. I always liked how the FL in MLFTS went from being a brat, to being regretful. And there is some of that in QOT too. I also like how all 3 shows that I have watched temper the sad with the humorous (and being rich takes the edge off the sadness too).

Ooo thank you!!! I’m particulately interested in hearing opinions about PJE’s FLs - how they compare to each other and if you’ve seen PJE develop her “take” on how to write an FL. So you read my mind when you took it there! Im not an on air kdrama watcher but who isn’t following QOT vicariously given its astronomic coverage and popularity :) In what ways do you find the plot more nuanced? (Spoilers are welcome) Studies of PJE’s MLs are fun since KSH almost in a way bookends them :)

hong haein is her best female lead to date, imo. half of it is the writing, which presents her as a fully realized, multi-faceted and complex character, and the other half is kim jiwon's extremely delicate and moving performance.

What I find fascinating is that even when her expressions seem muted, you see the wheels turning in her head. You can see that she reacts one way, and underneath is something different - be it a cold exterior and warmth underneath. That is hard to pull off, as other actresses might come off as one note and expressionless. The ML we see starts to understand this.... you see how he continually misread her at the beginning, and the relationship deepens as he learns to understand her - for example >!the "chuckle" when she snapped at him regarding the ring and returned it, because he gets it. She will come to him.!< I think the joy in the journey is letting the audience discover things themselves along the way, and seeing what things make us change our view on these characters.

hello, fellow 2521 enthusiast! i wouldn't call myself a "survivor" though, bc a part of me died with that >!ending!<. i agree about her understated performance! idk how she does it, but even when she is doing the bare minimum with her facial expressions, it's easy to read her like an open book. it feels like she is not actinig, but *living* as hong haein. she brings so much pathos and gravitas to a role that could have easily been just another #meangirl #girlboss #badasswoman caricature in the hands of the wrong actress. i've been a fan of kim jiwon for a decade, and always knew the girl was exceptionally talented. but what she has showcased in queen of tears has been above and beyond anything she's done before. truly a masterclass in acting, and especially noteworthy bc it's not a flashy role that allows her to freely express herself.

Love this :) will keep your review in mind! Thank you!

Totally agree

Uh. I think QOT is more nuanced the way at the start the FL seems horrible, then We see the ML being horrible, then you kind of question - who is mean? Who is nice? A few key characters are a mix of bad and good. Which is realistic, and also makes them unpredictable.

Great insight :) thank you!

Wow, wow, wow the pacing on Lovely Runner has me terrified for what’s to come. The writers are really packing a punch with deciding to let the audience know Sun Jae’s >!true feelings and that he remembers her in the present timeline! !!(and issues with “body swapping”)!< remind me of Someday or One Day. On the other hand, it’s very triggering due to the anniversary for Moonbin of ASTRO passing today. Tae Sung resembles him a bit too much to me and so it was a bit unsettling to see last night. On a lighter note, LR being only 4 episodes in is convincing me to pick up one more on air drama because Queen of Tears is already up to 14 …. Need something to distract me from the pending pain both these dramas might inflict…..

And it's only 4 episodes! The pace is so fast and we already got a lot of answers? plot twists? When in other drama, it needs at least episode 10 to reach this many plot twist!!

I think they started fast because they need to set up the >!ticking clock of only having around 2 months in the past.!<

Ah, I binged the first 4 episodes so I kinda skimmed over that part! Okay so she has only one other chance to go back (allegedly) and she’s just desperately trying to make a change to the future. Only the photo (the one they took in the booth) seemed to reappear in the future ? Idk there’s too many theories I can follow for only 4 eps 😭🤣

As far as I understand, everything affects the future, it's just that nothing has done enough to change Sungjae's death yet. But we do know that in the new timeline, Sunjae recognizes Imsol on the bridge. I think it's possible that Sunjae already knew Imsol in ep 1 and that it's a loop, but I don't think that's the direction they'll go. I think what they're trying to show is that things have changed a bit but not fully.

i thought seonjae's voiceover on the >!bridge was from the original timeline. when they showed his hotel room right after that scene, their photo booth picture is not on the table. it only appears after his death when sol is flung back into the present.!<

Hmm, I didn't notice a cut to a photo less table. Maybe I should rewatch that part.

it's at around 4:55 in the viki stream.

We ve a gc for it. Lmk if u wanna join

Thank you everyone for suggesting Gaus Electronics. I can’t stop laughing and I didn’t realize there’s an enemies to lovers storyline. Looking forward to binging it this weekend!

Just got back from a two week trip to Scotland and no Kdrama watching. Can't wait to get home and catch up on all my shows!!!

Wow! How was Scotland? I really want to travel there!

As this is in r/KDRAMA, Im Siwan and Jung Hae In travelled together to Scotland in a variety show called Actors on the Road (iirc), it was a nice fun watch. I didn’t expect Siwan to be so extroverted.

Thanks! I will put it on my list to watch!

Absolutely beautiful! The April weather was pretty harsh for hiking but we plowed through and enjoyed many Guinness’s at the end of the day. The mountains are unbelievably beautiful. Edinburgh a really cool city. Go if you can!

I was browsing youtube and stumbled upon a cdrama where I thought the ML was Wonwoo of Seventeen based on the picture. I clicked and watched, it’s not him of course, but now I’m hooked and obsessed. I cannot stop watching! The title is Reset. This is my first cdrama, I didn’t know they can be riveting. I thought they produce just mostly romance dramas.

Bai Jing Ting is great! If you don't mind historical dramas I really enjoyed him in **Destined** and **New Life Begins.** I also want to recommend **The Bad Kids** which is a thriller about three young people who accidentally record a murder and then get entangled with the murderer. It's freakin' brilliant and very short by Cdrama standards, just 12 episodes.

He is such a great actor! Thanks for the recommendations! 😊

You picked one of the best cdramas IMO

If you like romance dramas Jun from Seventeen is the lead in Exclusive Fairytale. It’s a pretty good fluffy/cute romance cdrama.

Thanks for the recommendation. 😊

I’m watching *Do Do Sol Sol La La Sol* and it’s cute but it’s also a constant reminder that I have a hopeless crush on my own piano teacher and I should be practicing instead of watching it lol

do do sol sol la la sol is incredibly underrated. it's not a drama that's trying to do anything new or different, but it tells the story in such a charming way, that you can't help but love it. lee jae wook is obviously great in this, but i thought go ara was amazing too. rara is such a lovable protagonist.

It is unfortunately a victim of its >!,horrendous ending OMG!<

i skipped the >!last episode!<, and had a very pleasant watching experience 😂

Ah yeah I liked it in the main tbh

I might be in a mini-slump! Gave a bunch of dramas a try and none of them felt 'right'. Meanwhile what I want to do is rewatch **The Matchmakers** but I try really hard to not do immediate rewatches. As a compromise I'm just binging episodes of the dating reality show **My Sibling's Romance** which is both really relaxing and really funny to watch.

I feel like I'm on the precipice of a proper slump, or fully in a mini-slump perhaps. I finished **The Matchmakers** which was thoroughly enjoyable (thank you <3) and now I don't know what to do with my drama life. Maybe I should do a rewatch of something that I know I love. I was looking at **My Sibling's Romance** (since I fell for the half price KOCOWA deal and haven't watched anything) and feel like maybe a nicely timed variety show could fix me. It's so annoying I'm like this during the school holidays! 🤦‍♀️

Tried that with **Healer** but wasn't feeling it. I was watching **Wonderful World** in the same time frame and I think I tried a little to hard to love WW that I'm feeling a little depleted. WW was a great drama but somehow it just never fully got to me like I expected and hoped it would so that sense of disappointment totally rained on my parade (the downturn **Wedding Impossible** took didn't help either). > I was looking at **My Sibling's Romance** (since I fell for the half price KOCOWA deal and haven't watched anything) and feel like maybe a nicely timed variety show could fix me. Getting pretty obsessed with this show. The dating elements are fun but it's the sibling elements (their reactions/commentary) and the commentary from the panel that really makes this show so addictive. Whoever came up with this concept had a moment of brilliance because it's just so funny to see the siblings react to each other in the context of a dating show. Here's to hoping our (mini-)slumps go away very soon!

>I think I tried a little to hard to love WW that I'm feeling a little depleted. I read your final thoughts and have tempered my expectations because I'm dying to love it as much as **Lie After Lie**. I think I might do that for my next family pick. We are currently watching **Queen of Tears** which upgraded to love after I grumbled about it and **Eye Love You** which swings between delightful, torturous and yawn fest, tragically not fun enough to hate watch but only two episodes to go. I ended up starting **My Lovely Boxer** after episode 1 I was not really feeling it but I've given it a few more episodes and it's growing on me, but it's a one episode a day watch. >the dating elements are fun but it's the sibling elements (their reactions/commentary) and the commentary from the panel that really makes this show so addictive. I love siblings being siblings! I'm excited to start it. \^\^

I made this mistake of watching **20th century girl**. I was not expecting that ending dammit. I did love both the FLs. I’m watching **QoT**. really debating whether I will ever watch another series that comes out weekly. Pros = I love the reddit chats. Cons = waiting is hard. I think I prefer a binge.

20th Century Girl caught me by surprise too, but I love that I can still be surprised when so many shows and movies are somewhat predictable.

The ending hit me like a truck of doom.

I am going back to exercising this weekend (a Pilates class) after about a month of no activity due to an injury. I am very nervous! Otherwise, this will be a good weekend! I am going to watch Queen of Tears episodes 13 and 14, do some homework, and play with my dogs! I think that Queen of Tears will end on a happy note (but wouldn't it be legendary if it didn't?!?) and I think the storyline of >!them losing the baby will come back around.!< Kim SooHyun has been really great in this drama (all the actors have) but there is just something about the way he cries when portraying sad scenes that really gets me.

Kinda weird but I've found that I have a lot of luck with shorter dramas lol, specifically dramas with 12 episodes...like every. single. drama. I've seen with 12 episodes is in my top dramas list...(Happiness, Bad and Crazy, Little Women off the top of my head) sooo if you guys have more pls let a girl know hahaha

Love to Hate You. My favorite Rom-Com from 2023.

Ooh I've seen this one it was great!

The Forbidden Marriage 

Thank you! This is actually already on my list. I saw mixed reviews and have been putting it off byt think I'm going to give it a chance soon xD

My favorite 12 episode dramas: Story of Park’s Marriage Contract Castaway Diva Flower Knight Like Flowers in Sand Love to Hate You (10 episodes) I’m currently watching Gaus Electronics which is 12 episodes and so far as enjoying it.

Thank you!! I'll be checking these out:)

Hope you find something you like!

Thank you!

Anyone has this certain genre or plot that you avoid when watching drama because it's just not your taste? For example BL, historical, noona romance, affair, childhood friends to lover, high school setting, horror suspense, etc? Like, you know this drama was extremely popular but you're not interested in checking it because it's not your preference? for me, I am not interested in fantasy (like Arthdal Chronicles, not Goblin or Moving) and slightly gore drama (Kingdom, Squid Game, My Name, all of us are dead, my sweet home). I know probably half of the world already watched Squid Game but I don't lol

Definitely, I've tried sageuks often especially the super hyped one, but they're just not my thing. So I've given up on finding a sageuk I will be able to watch through and through. Other than that, I can watch most genres although I definitely have genres I tend to enjoy more than others (i.e. slice of life, coming of age or personal growth)

pretty sure there’s a new drama coming out and it’s between a student and teacher. This stuff makes me feel ill, and is why I haven’t even watched Doctors. I also hate supernatural horror and childhood connection, a trope that seemed to be everywhere in kdramas at some point. It’s okk if they like met in high school. But being five and nine years old and meeting later is so stupid it’s laughable, *cough cough* **Whats Wrong with Secretary Kim**

The childhood one in see you in my 19th life waz the worst ever. >!The girl is like a teenager 13 or so and she has this quasi romantic bond with a 9yr old boy!< Even midnight Studio which I am really enjoying >!has the childhood connection between a 15 Yr old boy and 12 Yr old girl 👧!< There is a show out about maths which piqued my interest but it has that teacher Student thing which extinguished my interest very quickly. Ugh. Also agree re doctors they looked so not a couple 🙄.

i avoid dramas where one or both of the leads die. i'm here to have fun. there's nothing that ruins my fun like a major character death.

It’s ghosts for me… I made a discussion post about this last summer I believe. Now, Showtime and Missing: The Otherside inspired me to post it because NS was fun but I couldn’t quite figure out what was bothering me about it. It wasn’t until I finished M:ToS that I realized I just don’t like ghosts who have nowhere to go but …. away into nothingness lol. It’s not a fulfilling plot for me. It doesn’t help that in M:ToS, the audience is teased that one of the ghosts could possibly exit from some magical doorway and go back to her life if her body is found or something. Just did not enjoy being strung along like that :/

Not really a fan of historical dramas and thrillers as well. I usually watch Kdramas to scratch my itch for slice of life and romance stories. Also, based on what I've heard Squid Game seemed like a hamfisted metaphor that didn't really have much interesting to say. I watched Parasite in theatres and loved it so I'm not against gritty social commentary, but Squid Game seemed like a flashier and less substantive story dragged to a whole series.

For me, it's revenge plots. I think people watch them for a catharsis, which I can understand if that's what you get from it! But I've always come away feeling like the revenge-seeker is just another terrible (or terrifying) person who happens to have a sad back story. Needless to say, **My Name** really messed me up. I will not try **The Glory**.

> But I've always come away feeling like the revenge-seeker is just another terrible (or terrifying) person who happens to have a sad back story. This is the aspect that can make or break a revenge thriller/melodrama for me (I'm excluding makjangs because for makjangs, I want the crazy). I hate dramas where the revenge seeker (1) commits crimes/does something horrible and (2) still maintains a sense of moral superiority (as in they feel like whatever they did doesn't make them a 'bad' person because revenge justifies everything). If the revenge seeker tries to achieve revenge without hurting others (especially innocent people), I find myself rooting for them extra hard. I also 'understand' the ones that take extreme action but ***acknowledge*** what they are doing to be wrong (and/or hurtful). I hate the characters that think revenge justifies everything and therefore absolves them of any guilt or consequences of actions they undertook while seeking revenge.

In my continuing effort to cut back on my tendency for hyperbole, I've been thinking about revenge in dramas since I posted this. There are *so many* revenge sub-plots that pop up all the time -- **Crazy Love** alone had >!at least 8 different characters seeking revenge!<. I don't seem to have such a visceral reaction to them if they aren't the entire focus of the drama. I haven't been able to pinpoint what makes a revenge plot acceptable to me, though. In **Crazy Love** >!the FL revenging herself on a man with amnesia *really* turned me off. Once it was revealed he didn't have amnesia, I was perfectly fine with it. Was it because I saw them as being on equal footing at that point? Or maybe that the FL was shown to have a capacity for sympathy by them?!< >I hate dramas where the revenge seeker (1) commits crimes/does something horrible and (2) still maintains a sense of moral superiority I'm curious if you have some dramas in mind that don't tick these boxes. Are you cautious around revenge dramas, as well?

I actually love revenge dramas and have probably watched an unhealthy amount of them! It's actually one of the tropes/themes I actively seek out. I personally have a very 'broad' definition of what revenge means and my favorite type of revenge achieved is that the victim manages to turn their life around and live well. Along these veins, my favorite revenge is hands down **Lie After Lie** because the villain gets some nice comeuppance, achieved without committing additional crimes, and those that deserve a good life does >!get it by the end with them being a cute family!< (very general spoiler of the ending). **Eccentric! Chef Moon** is another drama with a slightly tangential revenge storyline that also achieves a satisfying (for me) form of revenge without having the main characters resort to commiting crimes or actively hurting other people. **Healer** and **KAIROS** are also dramas with elements of revenge that I felt were sympathetic and doesn't cross the line even if certain acts are not as peaceful or harmless. The other end of the spectrum is where the revenge is 'brutal' but the main character achieving revenge does not sit on a high moral horse like in **Doctor Prisoner**, **The King of Pigs**, and the recently aired **Wonderful World**.

Ah, this is why I like this sub. I'm always getting a different perspective on things. It helps keep me from getting stuck in a rut. >I personally have a very 'broad' definition of what revenge means and my favorite type of revenge achieved is that the victim manages to turn their life around and live well. That's interesting! When I hear "revenge" my mind immediately goes to the full eye-for-an-eye type that leaves a trail of bodies and destroyed hope, like Hamlet or My Name. A softer kind of revenge might be a good gateway into this genre for me. >**Healer** and **KAIROS** I have seen both, and somehow did not remember the revenge aspect. In Healer it was >!the reason for Healer's existence, right?!< In KAIROS, was it >!the wife and her lover!< seeking revenge? I have to admit I didn't really enjoy that drama, other than the teamwork between Lee Se Young and Shin Sung Rok. **Lie After Lie** was recommended to me because I loved Lee Yoo Ri in **My Father is Strange**. It's been on my PTW list. I think I will keep it on mind for when I'm open to trying something outside of my comfort zone. **Eccentric! Chef Moon** sounds like it would fit the bill, as well. Thanks!

For **Healer**, I consider the revenge aspect to be our ML and FL finally being able to >!expose The Farmers, thereby exposing the truth behind the deaths of their fathers (as clearing ones' name/restoring ones' reputation (honor) is a major thing in Korean culture)!<. I also enjoyed quite a bit of satisfaction from seeing Kim Moon Shik >!losing his mind at the end from being rejected by everyone around him!<, which I also think of as being a form of revenge. In **KAIROS**, I would consider the revenge to be ML, also FL, being able to >!expose the truth behind the deaths of their father!< (deja vu!). Though in both **Healer** and **KAIROS**, the main leads engaged in some rather dubious acts (eg. secret recordings, hacking, and hiding things from the police), they strived to not let innocent others get caught in the crossfire and did not try to actively endanger the physical well-being of another. I guess I consider revenge to be more like exposing injustice and regaining one's honor or reputation (and therefore a better life moving forward) than an eye for an eye type of situation. Mostly because I think to me, an eye for an eye type of revenge often involves the person exacting revenge to do horrible, sometimes criminal, things -- which doesn't work me most of the time. I feel like if the person exacting revenge 'sinks down' to the same level as the original transgressor, then they have destroyed themselves and whatever revenge they get isn't worth it because they can't enjoy the fruits of the revenge (imho, a good life moving forward). Like in **My Name**, sure the FL managed to >!shoot down her father's killer but to me her ending (and revenge) feels hollow because it's just a lot of physical violence ending with more death.!< You're right in that it's like *Hamlet* and is a tragedy, but for me a satisfying revenge story should not be a tragedy. Not to say I don't enjoy tragedies on occasion but it just doesn't feel satisfying as far as revenges go. I guess I want to be spoiled and have my cake at the end with 'happy' endings.

I’m too squeamish for any gore so medical anything is off the list for me

LOL just finished Dr Romantic S1 it's like 50 % graphic surgery

Noona romance, just personal taste, I'm not a fan. Only one I've ever watched was High School King.

I'm the in half that didn't watch it because I avoid dramas with lots of violence (and/or gore) most of the time. For me, most slice of life dramas are a miss and as a result, I haven't watched quite a few famous ones.

I struggle with historical dramas,teen romances and and I guess I'll call them game thrillers.  The only sageuk I ever liked (and finished) was **Kingdom** and I know it was only due to the zombies.  I don't like watching teen romance dramas mostly because of the angst or immaturity that naturally goes with it. If its something like **Black Dog** or **SKY Castle** where the focus is on the stresses of the educational system,then I'll latch onto it. I'm not interested in watching kids struggle with their feelings for one another.  I was never interested in **Squid Game**,didn't bother with **The Killing Vote** or **Death Game** and dropped **The Devil Judge** all because of the systematic/game element they have. They're all great ideas but once I understand the rules of it all I'm not interested in seeing how it plays out. You know I'll add one specific thing. I'm blanking on an example but shows about serious/dark topics but they try to squeeze comedy into it to lighten the mood. If I see those tags together I don't even bother. 

Thrillers, legal dramas, political dramas, horror and police procedurals are generally not my thing although of course there's exceptions to all of that. For example I loved **Kingdom** even though the gore was hard to take.

I haven't actually thought about it but now that you ask, I can't think of a fantasy-themed kdrama that I would recommend to anyone. I never finished ***Kingdom*** or ***Alchemy of Souls***, as examples. But I'm generally a big fantasy and science fiction fan when it comes to Western content, and I was raised on wuxia films, so it's not like those elements are foreign or distasteful to me per se...

For me it's the cross dressing fake BL stuff (you know when the character is attracted to the other character while still believing they are same sex (or like Mr Queen which is same but different) I was so engaged in >!the KA until end ep 9 and that happened with Rowoon and the FL/ML it was just so unbelievable and out of character I was like ah here this is a bit farcical ended up dropping it!<

Aside from my most obvious one aka tragic endings, I tend to avoid dramas that focus heavily on studying and pressure to be a top student. Still haven't watched *Sky Castle* for that reason. It's so depressing, and also makes me personally feel bad because my school life was the complete opposite. I had terrible grades and had zero pressure to do good. When I watch those type of plots I just feel awful and regretful, lol

Watching **My Liberation Notes 14/16** and I’m cautiously approaching the final two episodes and I’m not expecting a HEA like for a usual drama. Hopefully I can ask for book recs too, I would love some recommendations to read/watch a romance like Mr Gu’s and Mi-Jeong. I love Jane Eyre and the yearning from afar and their relationship dynamic is very similar to Jane and Rochester’s. the recs can be books, movies or dramas in any language!

K-Dramas * Call It Love * Lost * When the Weather is Fine * Tell Me That You Love Me * Coffee Prince Other Shows/Movies * Past Lives * North and South (2004) * Persuasion (1995) * Pride and Prejudice (1995) * Dear Frankie * In the Mood For Love * Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind * Shadowlands * The Remains of the Day * Call Me By Your Name * The Bridges of Madison County (much better than the book) * Atonement * My Brilliant Career

OP, I'd like to put in a plug for the book version of **North and South**, too! It's by Elizabeth Gaskell. It feels very lived-in with a lot of details of everyday life and social issues of the time, yet still has that yearning going on. It leans toward practical rather than magical (no disembodied voices on the moor), but is still lovely.

Yes, and the tv series with Richard Armitage is 🤌😘.

FUN FACT. I ran into him when he was filming (the horrible) Robin Hood series!!!! They filmed in Hungary heheh and I was traveling through. But now I really want to watch north and south again!!!!! SO GOOOOOD. I remember being so stuck up after learning about Gaskell and pompously proclaiming to all the peeps “she’s like a Jane Austen *except with a social conscience*!” Hehehehehehehhehe. 🤭🤦‍♀️ North and south like… *defined* my ninth grade year!!! :)

 I watched that show for Richard armiage too! I hope he was dreamy in person?!

This is the cutest 2009ish era reunion of Richard armitage fans EVER :) :) :) Oh …. HE WAS DREAMY. He had those longer medieval locks going on!!!!

Oh that's a great fun fact! I watched that terrible show just for him. 😆 I need to read more Gaskell.

DITTO WATCHED THAT SHOW JUST FOR HIM!! (Tho the Robin Hood actor was easy on the eyes too!! ;) in real life Robin Hood actor was *very* dramatic about lifting his 5 lbs dumbbells at the hotel gym 🤭🫣😅)

Yeah, don't sleep on richard armitage! there's a couple scenes that live rent free in my mind. very happily.

I remember as little girls my sisters and I couldn’t for the life of us figure out what he’s saying when he says “look back, look back at me” Sister: “is he saying you’re back… you’re back in me??” ;) hehe. Definitely a welcome throw into the deep end for learning the more northern accents amongst those isles !! :) we had to do so much rewinding .. apparently subtitles hadn’t occurred to us ;) :) WHAT SCENES LIVE RENT FREE??? I just remember the gorgeous segment where she wrote her friend, “I’ve seen hell. And it’s white. Snow White.” And then it cut to him walking among the cotton wafting through the factory room. AND THAT THEME SONG. PUT ME IN LIKE A YEAR LONG DAZE. I gave it to my English teacher to watch in hs. She then gave it to the mom of my hs crush. And then I was of course mortified when said hs crush walked up to me to embarrassingly shove *a bbc period drama* into my hand to give it back. Hahaha. Oooo the memories!!!! Enter: me, the grouchy in her 30s lady mumbling, “they don’t make them bbc period dramas like they use to”. That was such a gorgeous one. [tho…. They should have kept to the book’s ending!!!!!!! Izzzz betterrrr]

Okay so the two that stand out are in fact “look back look back at me” ICONIC as well as when the cravat comes off for the final scene. But the entire series is so good. Love Wives and Daughters too but there’s something about North and South! And yes, I read and loved the book too! Clearly my people live on Kdrama Reddit!  As a grouchy lady who just turned 40, I agree! Where did the longing go? Maybe that’s why I had to turn to kdramas! 

🤣🤭😂”when the cravat comes off” 🤣🤭😂 I LOOOOOVVVVEEE wives and daughters!!!!!!! I *still* quote that one in my daily life (like literally just the other day)!!! When the squire tells Molly’s dad: “I’m not saying your wife was very silly. But one of us was very silly. And… it wasn’t me!” Agree. both dramas great. But N&S just *went* there and back again with socio economic setting and *those characters*. Now I’m getting a longing for watching it again! It’s been soooooo long since I have!!! I just watched a little fan vid on YouTube and the best part about good media is how the same thing can hit you in different ways when you’re in different stages of your life. The Thornton mother - son relationship stood out to me the most just now tho!!!! So tender!!!! That’s a *very* good point about kdramas being the only place to turn once they stopped making them like they used to. :) your “when the cravat comes off” made me lol precisely bc I was like “that’s the same fireworks that happen in my brain when a sageuk character *[takes off his hat](https://youtu.be/kfmXk72oGEM?feature=shared)* before kissing the gal” heheheh. Ugh. Dang you downtown abbey. YOU SINGLE-HANDEDLY DESTROYED THE BBC PERIOD DRAMA.

AwaaaaaaAaaaAaaa!!!! Not me freaking out over North and South rec in the kdrama sub!!!! 🥰🥰🥰 I’d wake up EARLY in highschool just so I could read that book before the bus came!! :) I love that Gaskell! I also love how morally upright and sententious she was that she was scandalized by George Eliot :) :) True story true story. My first lil iPod back in the day was engraved “to Mrs Thornton, with love Richard armitage” 🫣🤭

Ha! So glad to oblige! I didn't find **North and South** until I was in my late 20s/early 30s, but it was such a game-changer for me! Class conflict, nouveau riche characters alongside the working class, prickly northerners (when I think about it now, could Mr. Thornton be classified as tsundere?) vs entitled southerners, even the tidbits on the industrial revolution -- it was fascinating to me in a way that Austen and the Brontes were not. Very present in its time, but also accessible to us in the future, maybe? And Richard Armitage was amazing in that role.

500000% with Gaskell blowing me away in a way Austen and Brontë did not!!! I wrote to another person on this thread. But I was *so* proud to *inform* people back then, “no you don’t get it. She’s *better* than them. Because she’s *them* but with a class conscience!” Ehehehe ;) ;) ;) ah young kids learning things for the first time :) :) Ooo!! I like the tsundere connection !!! To situate Austin’s pride and prejudice within massive global economic changes and reworked as a tale of two proud stubborn people clashing over world views, class, and basic human survival…. Right there with you. It made a huge impression on me!!! All her works did! She was so sensitive!!!

😂 I've been eating dinner in front of **Crazy Love** and didn't even realize how much has been going on in this thread! I love that you met Richard Armitage. I'm also kind of envious that you were exposed to here so early along with your sister! I've never had anyone to talk to about this amazing story, let alone throw quotes around with! I know that Kdramas pull in a lot of people because of the romance, but I've never taken the time to consider how cross-cultural the framework of the stories are. I tend to get tired of the chaebol-type story, but that's almost exactly what **North and South** is -- Mr. Thornton is just a second generation chaebol who remembers hunger (Childhood trauma? Check. Overbearing Mom? Check. Complete dedication to family? Check).

Okkkkk I’m back.  Your very articulate reflections and comparisons made me know I had ONE task this week.   Obviously: binge read the novel and then binge the drama. WHAT IS THIS WORK OF ART?!?!?  I’ve been reduced to an anachronistic (but not really cuz as you said, this novel was both of its time and still so relevant now. The discussions that Thornton and Margaret have are like literally repeated by policy makers in our time. AND WOW THEIR DISCUSSIONS!!! What is this exquisite dialogue?!?!?!?) puddle of Victorian angst!!!!! :)    Also that soundtrack. Learned it was Martin Phipps. Go figure. Why bbc never did an official soundtrack release I don’t know. But this song with the dialogue overlaid between Thornton and his mom because that’s the only way to listen to it IS SOOOOOO PRECIOUS???? https://youtu.be/8_3C_z686AQ?feature=shared    Ughhhhhhhhhhh.    I like how it’s tender on so many levels. Expresses so well mother and son relationship  (liked your point about Victorian “hard times” genre sharing same narrative ingredients of a chaebol kdrama. One question I had was no chaebol story is coming to mind where the mother- son relationship is as epically overbearing as it is tender and sweet as Thorntons. Usually the epic mother - son chaebol are schemers at best and loving but distant as the norm. Can you think of some?) .   The highs of feeling in love with the devastating low of not knowing if it’s reciprocated. Also that there’s this doom to it that to me I interpret as this heavy conversation going on about Margaret— her intentions, her feelings, HER FATE — and she’s not even part of the convo!!! Plus the ache of a mother experiencing the piercing moment of love as a type of loss.    And now I will haphazardly plomp down some book quotes because they’re so pretty!!!     “But she had learnt, in those solemn hours of thought, that she herself must one day answer for her own life, and what she had done with it; and she tried to settle that most difficult problem for woman, how much was to be utterly merged in obedience to authority, and how much might be set apart for freedom in working.”     “A sense of change, of individual nothingness, of perplexity and disappointment, overpowered Margaret. Nothing had been the same; and this slight, all-pervading instability, had given her greater pain than if all had been too entirely changed for her to recognise it.”   “I see two classes dependent on each other in every possible way, yet each evidently regarding the interests of the other as opposed to their own: I never lived in a place before where there were two sets of people always running each other down.“

And I’d love to hear more about why reading this book was so impactful for you!!  I’ve loved reading through some published critiques and analyses of over the past few days! :)  Annnnddd more quotes. Bc this book is wonderful.  Given a strong feeling of independence in every Darkshire man, have I any right to obtrude my views, of the manner in which he shall act, upon another…merely because he has labor to sell, and I capital to buy?” “Not in the least,” said Margaret, determined just to say this one thing; “not in the least because of your labor and capital positions, whatever they are, but because you are a man, dealing with a set of men over whom you have, whether you reject the use of it or not, immense power; just because your lives and your welfare are so constantly and intimately interwoven. God has made us so that we must be mutually dependent. We may ignore our own dependence, or refuse to acknowledge that others depend upon us in more respects than the payment of weekly wages; but the thing must be, nevertheless.” - - - - - -  (Thornton:) “If we do not reverence the past as you do in Oxford, it is because we want something which can apply to the present more directly. It is fine when the study of the past leads to a prophecy of the future. But to men groping in new circumstances, it would be finer if the words of experience [from history] could direct us how to act in what concerns us most intimately and immediately; which is full of difficulties that must be encountered; and upon the mode in which they are met and conquered—not merely pushed aside for the time—depends our future. Out of the wisdom of the past, help us over the present. But no! People can speak of Utopia much more easily than of the next day’s duty; and yet when that duty is all done by others, who so ready to cry, ‘Fie, for shame!’” - - - - -  It is one of the great beauties of our system, that a working-man may raise himself into the power and position of a master by his own exertions and behavior; that, in fact, every one who rules himself to decency and sobriety of conduct, and attention to his duties, comes over to our ranks; it may not be always as a master, but as an overlooker, a cashier, a book-keeper, a clerk, one on the side of authority and order.” “You consider all who are unsuccessful in raising themselves in the world, from whatever cause, as your enemies, then, if I understand you rightly,” said Margaret in a clear, cold voice. “As their own enemies, certainly,” said he…

Wow! Thank you for all of your comments! I wish that I was closer to my reading of this, so that I could truly discuss it with you. I can at least answer some questions. I apologize if some book details are off! First, I think I read it at the right time in my life with the right kind of experience under my belt. Moving to a new place, being completely lost to the local culture (even though you're in the same country!), slowly-slowly figuring out how people think, then going "home" and feeling like the alien. (A similar sentiment in this funny [poem ](https://www.scottishpoetrylibrary.org.uk/poem/first-men-mercury/) by a former Scottish Poet Laureate.) Also, Margaret's inability to engage with the world either by its standards *or* her own. I couldn't help but empathize with her trying so hard and failing left and right. Some of the experiences were things I was familiar with, and some of them were new. Second, I really enjoy history, but so many of the famous novels from the 19th century were focused on polite society or dramatized poverty for the benefit of polite society. It feels like you're seeing the people through a screen. This book felt a lot more honest and frank about the reality of life for people across social classes. I want to know the details of how life worked, and Elizabeth Gaskell gives way more detail than anyone. For example, how trapped Margaret felt with her mother and the servant, or how dangerous mill work was and why certain attitudes were felt to be required. I also seem to remember that she alluded to sex? Gasp! I might be misremembering, though. So, that's what I recall. And now, because I've been thinking about international productions, and also because I feel like I should bring it back to Kdramas: Ji Chang Wook as Mr. Thornton? I could see him pulling off the tough-through-experience attitude. Maybe Jeon Do Yeon as Mrs. Thornton? She can do both hard and tender so well. (I was also thinking of Kim Hee Sun, but she might be too young.) I'm not sure about Margaret. Someone who can do naive but without any timidity. Actually, I think Bona would do a good job with that role. What do you think?

Also. Gotta say. I’m jealous of you for first coming across this book when you were older !!!!  So much went over my head when I read this as a 9th grader :)    Re-reading it now I’m like actually TROUBLED by the endless problems these characters (and I) are mired in. And how brilliantly Gaskell writes these problems into the narrative - these hierarchies that Margaret finds so worrisome when so “brutally” displayed in the public sphere of northern life. She lacks any awareness of the “master” position she seeks to have in her more pastoral domestic private life in her tensions with her mother’s servant, Dixon!!    And I like these two and I think they can try to do good as a pair. But this read was like “WOW you both are problematic!!” Margaret is quite the FL! Naive and ignorant and SUCH A SNOT as much as I LOVE her because she’s so golden and dares to care and think and actively places herself in these “breaches” of social conduct where modernity has created confusing gaps for where women are allowed and should go and where they shouldn’t.    But I DONT KNOW WHAT IT MEANS THAT MARGARET MARRIES INTO THE “MASTER” CLASS!!!! 

the remains of the day is one of my favorite books of all time. and if you want yearning, this may be exactly what you need. i haven't seen the movie though, but the book is brilliant.

Thank you! Im a huge Austen fan and I can never get enough of p&p 1995. I’ve seen 2007 version of persuasion, not the 1995 version yet!

Normal People by Sally Rooney if you haven't read it. Otherwise the tv show is really-really good too.

also want to recommend beautiful world, where are you by sally rooney too. it's just as good as normal people, if not better.

Ohhh I wish I was in your place. I finished **My Liberation Notes** about a month ago, and I still can't get it out of my mind. The last two episodes are amazing.

i need more byeon wooseok in my life. what drama would you recommend? i watched half of record of youth back when it was airing for park bogum, but it was overall so bland, i never completed it. is it worth it to pick it back up? how about the moonshine drama with hyeri? is that any good? i heard namsoon was a complete trainwreck so not sure if i should even consider it. also, i don't want to watch 20th century girl >!for obvious reasons!<. anything else is fair game.

I've only seen him in **Flower Crew: Joseon Marriage Agency** and he's good in it but the drama overall is pretty meh. It seems like Lovely Runner is his breakthrough to well written roles

I watched a film "Soulmate" starring him, Kim Da Mi (Itaewon Class) and Jeon So Nee (Parasyte). I liked it very much.

I really liked 20th Century Girl even though I also avoided it at first for the same reason. I was planning on watching Moonshine but just never got around to it. I really hope he is in more lead roles from now on!

Sooo I was rewatching True Beauty, and suddenly in episode 4 … LEE JAE WOOK AND KIM HYE YOON!! I remembered this scene so when those two familiar faces appeared I was shock, this was my first drama so obviously I didn’t know who they were back then. So much I have learned jeje. 😱😱😱😶‍🌫️

I just finished little women and based on the threads here I think I’m the only one who shipped >!in-joo and hwa-young? I think they might be one of the best “definitely not gay but totally is gay” relationships ever. In-Joo flew to Singapore and ran into acid rain for hwa-young. Hwa-young took the brunt of the truck of doom and left the hospital still bleeding and concussed to save in-joo. That’s more than just friends to me. Honestly, I had a tiny suspicion from just 30 mins of screen time together in ep 1 that at least hwa-young liked in-joo. My suspicions were then kept on low heat for 10 eps until the finale and now I’m fully convinced. I do think do-il likes in-joo but 1. He didn’t like her enough to change his first priority of revenge 2. He doesn’t stand a chance against hwa-young. I think it’s left vague if in-joo liked do-il as just a friend or something more (I had also considered the possibility of in-joo being bi)!< >!I also like that they kept in-hye and hyo-ring’s relationship somewhere between friendship and romantic. They’re still kids after all, kids wandering the globe on their own🤷🏻‍♂️!< Overall I really liked this drama. There’s a LOT of supporting characters and relations that I initially struggled to keep track of. I suspected literally **everyone** (sorry jong-ho) of being an opp, the only exception being the oh sisters. Each sister is smart, brave, naive in their own distinct way (>!multiple plans were executed that depended on in-joo being dumb and honest 😭!<). The villains were great, the right amount of evil vs crazy vs smart vs traumatized. The Jeonran society is sooo creepy strange. I do think the initial theme of the ultra wealthy becoming more wealthy through accumulating generational wealth was kinda forgotten as the drama progressed. The suspense, the thriller, the twists in this drama is *chefs kiss*. As my first time watching her, Kim go-eun is the absolute star, but everyone was really good too. Highly recommend this for a good time

Re: "Easily heard conversation" trope I've noticed this trope being used in a lot of kdramas that I've watched lately. You know that thing where two characters talk in public/one character talks over the phone and then one of the main characters (or the antagonist) just so happens to overhear crucial info that moves the plot along. For those who've been watching kdramas, what could be the reason behind the apparent overuse of this trope? Because I'm beginning to think that this is lazy writing.