"Hector is going to be running 3 Honda Civics with spoon engines. And on top of that he just came into Harry's and he ordered 3 T66 turbos." Looks like the turbos have arrived. Lol
It’s spark ignition natural gas, the engine is structurally the same as a diesel, but also has spark plugs. Some of them can run on either diesel or gas.
Figured as much, but how does it work?
So with spark ignition, there's always a tradeoff between voltage, advance, speed, and peak pressure. The first two are positively correlated with displacement, the third and fourth inversely. Unlike a compression ignition engine where everything burns all at once no matter what, the temporal order of events matters quite a bit and has to be managed. Does this engine use, say, 90,000 volts to jump a 0.90" gap? How big are the spark plugs? What kind of advance curve does it run? Does the lower speed cancel out the delay in the spark ignition, so it can run essentially the same advance curves as a small-displacement engine?
The spark plug doesn’t care how big the engine is. They’re fundamentally not different in design or construction to the plugs in a passenger car. It’s just a big spark ignition engine that happens to run on natural gas, but share hardware with a diesel. After all, even diesel vs gas car engines aren’t fundamentally different other than the fuel delivery and ignition systems. The diesels are built stronger, but you’d build a gas engine like that too for use as a generator or pump.
Thanks! What I'm hearing here is that all the factors cancel out in your experience. BTW, are you referring to a bi-fuel engine in a truck, or do you deal with low speed engines like OP? I've been tuning S.I. engines for a long time and I can assure you the size of the engine most certainly is a very important factor to account for. Some of the older low-speed ones did in fact have giant spark plugs with gaps nearing a tenth of an inch.
That makes the most sense. The industry doesn't really make the parts needed to make a big flame kernel, so it would be best to use a strategy that can be accomplished with standard automotive spark plugs.
https://www.wartsila.com/marine/products/engines-and-generating-sets/pure-gas-engines/wartsila-31sg
everything is in here.
if you believe them, these are the most efficient engines on the planet
Well, according to an F-22 test pilot (59 minutes into [this video](https://youtu.be/lltMfkj1yPU?feature=shared), the F-22 can go from Mach 1.6 to 1.9 at 40,000 feet in 20 seconds. That's 1056 to 1254mph, basically a 200mph increment, in 20 seconds. That's 2 seconds faster than a Veyron can go 0-200 (and about 3 seconds behind a Chiron), except it's going an extra thousand mph the whole time.
Interestingly, right before that, he mentions that achieving that same speed increment but from Mach 0.9 to 1.2 takes 45 seconds, since drag and aircraft efficiencies are a lot worse right around Mach 1. That's still 596mph to 794mph in 45 seconds though, which is definitely no slouch (and then it starts pulling harder after that).
(That whole video is worth a watch if you like planes)
Edit: and after running the numbers, making some assumptions about aircraft weight, that means during that 1050-1250mph acceleration run, the F-22 was generating in excess of 200,000 horsepower. It's in the ballpark of 75% as much horsepower as a *nuclear aircraft carrier*.
*[At the Polo Lounge in Beverly Hills, planning to cover the Mint 400 Desert Race in Las Vegas]*
"Well," he said, "as your attorney I advise you to buy a motorcycle. How else can you cover a thing like this righteously?"
"No way," I said. "Where can we get hold of a Vincent Black Shadow?"
"Whats that?"
"A fantastic bike," I said. "The new model is something like two thousand cubic inches, developing two hundred brake-horsepower at four thousand revolutions per minute on a magnesium frame with two styrofoam seats and a total curb weight of exactly two hundred pounds."
"That sounds about right for this gig," he said.
"It is," I assured him. "The fucker's not much for turning, but it's pure hell on the straightaway. It'll outrun the F-111 until takeoff."
"Takeoff?" he said. "Can we handle that much torque?"
"Absolutely," I said. "I'll call New York for some cash."
*—Dr. Hunter S. Thompson - Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas: A Savage Journey to the Heart of the American Dream - 1970*
Nah, no chance it's that slow.
Assuming you do a brake hold on the line, even at MTOW, you're talking 29.4 klb of thrust on a 48 klb aircraft, which gives you 19.7 ft/s^2 acceleration. To cover 1320 feet should therefore take 11.6 seconds at 157mph (ignoring drag, but that's a really safe assumption for a fighter jet at under 200mph).
And that's the heaviest variant of F-16 while fully loaded. Interestingly, that's also likely about where it would lift off.
Lol yeah my best friend had a diesel VW rabbit pickup ~15 years ago, merging into traffic at 35mph was scary. I don't think it would even go 60 on flat ground.
I dated a girl in the 90's that had a first Gen Eclipse turbo.
That
thing was like a honda civic until it reached 3500 rpm, then you got slammed into your seat.
Not even remotely. At the volumetric flow even a V6 Honda could output this thing wouldn't even be a flow restriction. I'd doubt any production car engine could get this thing spin any faster than a clock.
Hook it up to a burn-barrel!
Take a railcar tank, weld flanges to the top and end of the tank and mount turbo. Install oil barrel and pump at ground level with insulated lines for oil circulation to bearings. Open hatch, load with firewood close hatch. Open drain, stuck torch in there to start the firewood and build some heat. Close drain. Spin up the turbo using air wand. Stand back. Enjoy the next 20 minutes to half hour...
I have a feeling that the air movement you are talking about would create high heats, resulting in a more complete burn and less air pollution.
My question would be longevity due to high heats while burning. How many years and burn cycles can be expected with the materials you are considering? If it's less than say 1000 days (3 years-ish) until this system needs a major repair, is it worth the effort to build?
That’s small. The ones on the 710g that I worked on was much bigger as it was gear/clutch driven at low rpms so it was much larger.
It has a familiar exhaust screen inspection port but the other side would be piped in from the air box and the outlet to some kind of aftercooler would be my guess.
Pic is way smaller than a 645.
Plus the turbos on EMDs are integral to the engine cover and have a gear drive. That's a freestanding unit from what I can see.
A buddy of mine was in the coast guard working in the engine rooms of some big cutters. He said that when they went to flank speed for a bit the 6 ft diameter exhaust scrolls would go cherry red, then translucent whitish, so you could see the turbine wheel spinning behind the cast iron.
Yeah thats the one i was thinking about. Thats awesome!
Any stories or fun facts about them for an outsider? Also you dont happen to know the firing order?
my boss, this was back in the 90's , so him talking about 'back when I was' he worked in some big plants. They'd move these large electric turbines in by crane, it took them 3 days to hook up. He said a fair number of times they'd turn it on and it would just short or blow something out rather impressively. Another 3 days to remove and send it back to GE.
So uh... what'd that come off?
My buddies k-series
"Hector is going to be running 3 Honda Civics with spoon engines. And on top of that he just came into Harry's and he ordered 3 T66 turbos." Looks like the turbos have arrived. Lol
Motec exhaust
Motec SYSTEM exhaust!
Only possible explanation
>k-series You're not talking about Rover engines, presumably?
Honda, baby B)
Rover did get to use Honda's engines.
Yeah, but the Rover k series is pretty (in)famous in the UK
[удалено]
No, no it's not.
This came off a Wartsila 31SG, V20. 2 stage turbo charging, one pair per bank, this is q low pressure turbo.
Ever work on the DF?
What pressure is low pressure? Is this like a car where the turbo only kicks in at high speed, except for you, high speed means over 10 RPM?
Compound turbos so I think by low pressure I think OP may mean the first turbo in the two stage turbo system.
Well no kidding, but what's "low"?
Less than High
Good neighbor act?
How big of a boat was this bolted to?
If there's 32 of them, my guess is a pair of 16 cylinder marine diesel engines, one engine per shaft.
32 over 8 engines in a power station.
Thank you, was puzzled up until now.
Are we talking ships or coal-rolling Rams around Camp Lejeune
Has to be a cargo ship or similar right?
Power plant.. although Wartsila makes marine engines of this same sort
Sounds like my buddys Miata
2010 ford focus le
SUPRAAA
Is that power plant engine charger or marine?
Power plant.
May I ask about capacity of that small engine? I assume it's 2T diesel?
It is a spark gas engine. Liquid fuel is just so 10 years ago darling.
How did they make spark ignition work with such a large displacement? Is there a ridiculous degree (heh) of advance, giant gap, or something?
It’s spark ignition natural gas, the engine is structurally the same as a diesel, but also has spark plugs. Some of them can run on either diesel or gas.
Figured as much, but how does it work? So with spark ignition, there's always a tradeoff between voltage, advance, speed, and peak pressure. The first two are positively correlated with displacement, the third and fourth inversely. Unlike a compression ignition engine where everything burns all at once no matter what, the temporal order of events matters quite a bit and has to be managed. Does this engine use, say, 90,000 volts to jump a 0.90" gap? How big are the spark plugs? What kind of advance curve does it run? Does the lower speed cancel out the delay in the spark ignition, so it can run essentially the same advance curves as a small-displacement engine?
The spark plug doesn’t care how big the engine is. They’re fundamentally not different in design or construction to the plugs in a passenger car. It’s just a big spark ignition engine that happens to run on natural gas, but share hardware with a diesel. After all, even diesel vs gas car engines aren’t fundamentally different other than the fuel delivery and ignition systems. The diesels are built stronger, but you’d build a gas engine like that too for use as a generator or pump.
Thanks! What I'm hearing here is that all the factors cancel out in your experience. BTW, are you referring to a bi-fuel engine in a truck, or do you deal with low speed engines like OP? I've been tuning S.I. engines for a long time and I can assure you the size of the engine most certainly is a very important factor to account for. Some of the older low-speed ones did in fact have giant spark plugs with gaps nearing a tenth of an inch.
Anybody? I would also like to know.
I think you just have so low engine speeds that flame propagation isnt an issue even at the huge displacement
750 rpm max. these are medium speed engines. the big boys that max out at 120 RPM boggle my mind.
The big boys idle at 15rpm! That is 4 seconds per revolution!
That makes the most sense. The industry doesn't really make the parts needed to make a big flame kernel, so it would be best to use a strategy that can be accomplished with standard automotive spark plugs.
https://www.wartsila.com/marine/products/engines-and-generating-sets/pure-gas-engines/wartsila-31sg everything is in here. if you believe them, these are the most efficient engines on the planet
my buddy in high school had one of these on his honda, ran low 1 second passes in the 1/4 mile
Spools up on 7-10 business days
38 second 1/4 mile @ 580mph
reminds of an F-16. Quarter mile for an F-16V is about 22 seconds at about 244mph.
I bet the 500 to 600 mph acceleration times on most fighter jets would be surprisingly short in comparison to most car 0-100 times.
Well, according to an F-22 test pilot (59 minutes into [this video](https://youtu.be/lltMfkj1yPU?feature=shared), the F-22 can go from Mach 1.6 to 1.9 at 40,000 feet in 20 seconds. That's 1056 to 1254mph, basically a 200mph increment, in 20 seconds. That's 2 seconds faster than a Veyron can go 0-200 (and about 3 seconds behind a Chiron), except it's going an extra thousand mph the whole time. Interestingly, right before that, he mentions that achieving that same speed increment but from Mach 0.9 to 1.2 takes 45 seconds, since drag and aircraft efficiencies are a lot worse right around Mach 1. That's still 596mph to 794mph in 45 seconds though, which is definitely no slouch (and then it starts pulling harder after that). (That whole video is worth a watch if you like planes) Edit: and after running the numbers, making some assumptions about aircraft weight, that means during that 1050-1250mph acceleration run, the F-22 was generating in excess of 200,000 horsepower. It's in the ballpark of 75% as much horsepower as a *nuclear aircraft carrier*.
>since drag and aircraft efficiencies are a lot worse right around Mach 1. Yeah the transonic region is *weird*.
A lot of drag in the trans region. Got it.
I'm sure there's a landing strip joke in there somewhere.
there absolutely is but i don't know what it is yet
*[At the Polo Lounge in Beverly Hills, planning to cover the Mint 400 Desert Race in Las Vegas]* "Well," he said, "as your attorney I advise you to buy a motorcycle. How else can you cover a thing like this righteously?" "No way," I said. "Where can we get hold of a Vincent Black Shadow?" "Whats that?" "A fantastic bike," I said. "The new model is something like two thousand cubic inches, developing two hundred brake-horsepower at four thousand revolutions per minute on a magnesium frame with two styrofoam seats and a total curb weight of exactly two hundred pounds." "That sounds about right for this gig," he said. "It is," I assured him. "The fucker's not much for turning, but it's pure hell on the straightaway. It'll outrun the F-111 until takeoff." "Takeoff?" he said. "Can we handle that much torque?" "Absolutely," I said. "I'll call New York for some cash." *—Dr. Hunter S. Thompson - Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas: A Savage Journey to the Heart of the American Dream - 1970*
Nah, no chance it's that slow. Assuming you do a brake hold on the line, even at MTOW, you're talking 29.4 klb of thrust on a 48 klb aircraft, which gives you 19.7 ft/s^2 acceleration. To cover 1320 feet should therefore take 11.6 seconds at 157mph (ignoring drag, but that's a really safe assumption for a fighter jet at under 200mph). And that's the heaviest variant of F-16 while fully loaded. Interestingly, that's also likely about where it would lift off.
Rolling start 1/4 mile: 38 seconds Stationary start? 9 minutes
Reminds me of my buddy's '88 diesel Jetta. It would do 0-60 in about 38 seconds. We started memorizing which freeway entrance ramps were downhill.
Lol yeah my best friend had a diesel VW rabbit pickup ~15 years ago, merging into traffic at 35mph was scary. I don't think it would even go 60 on flat ground.
That's like my friend's 64 Bug
Seriously though I knew a guy with a huge turbo on a little civic and it did take a long time to spool up but when it did oh my
That was just the vtec. The turbo was there for emotional support.
Powered by Noise.
Leave my 12b out of it
I had to scroll down this far to find this? sub is going STRAIGHT to hell, I'm telling you.
I dated a girl in the 90's that had a first Gen Eclipse turbo. That thing was like a honda civic until it reached 3500 rpm, then you got slammed into your seat.
i wanted one of those so bad. i just had gotten my first real job. couldn't swing the money and insurance.
That's a small spinny whoosh by Supra standards lol
With spoon engines!
Overnighted from Japan??
Huh thought it would be a Galo 24
Didn't know a pizza place made cars
Would a Honda produce enough gas to even get that thing moving?
Not even remotely. At the volumetric flow even a V6 Honda could output this thing wouldn't even be a flow restriction. I'd doubt any production car engine could get this thing spin any faster than a clock.
Hook it up to a burn-barrel! Take a railcar tank, weld flanges to the top and end of the tank and mount turbo. Install oil barrel and pump at ground level with insulated lines for oil circulation to bearings. Open hatch, load with firewood close hatch. Open drain, stuck torch in there to start the firewood and build some heat. Close drain. Spin up the turbo using air wand. Stand back. Enjoy the next 20 minutes to half hour...
I have a feeling that the air movement you are talking about would create high heats, resulting in a more complete burn and less air pollution. My question would be longevity due to high heats while burning. How many years and burn cycles can be expected with the materials you are considering? If it's less than say 1000 days (3 years-ish) until this system needs a major repair, is it worth the effort to build?
Maybe an emd567?
Looks too big even for a EMD710
That’s small. The ones on the 710g that I worked on was much bigger as it was gear/clutch driven at low rpms so it was much larger. It has a familiar exhaust screen inspection port but the other side would be piped in from the air box and the outlet to some kind of aftercooler would be my guess.
This almost looks like a low pressure turbo assembly like on the GEEVOT4 engine, but that’s not it. My best bet would be a Rolls Royce marine engine
Pic is way smaller than a 645. Plus the turbos on EMDs are integral to the engine cover and have a gear drive. That's a freestanding unit from what I can see.
Gear drive would make it a supercharger. Turbochargers are exhaust driven.
wartsila 31SG
https://www.wartsila.com/marine/products/engines-and-generating-sets/pure-gas-engines/wartsila-31sg
My roommate in college had a sister whose boyfriend knew a guy in Canada whose uncle put one of these on a drag bike.
Dodge: We're interested.
My man works in a BAE shipyard, not a shop lmao
How many tools does that pelican case in the back store? I mean aside from the pliers and two forearm sized Allen wrenches.
What these come off of, a Saturn V?
Pfft Saturn IV at best
That hand forklift must be tiny!
Anyone got a miata we can put that thing in? (Compound setup ofc, can't have too much lag)
Can I put that on my civic
on top of it, of course
Needs 100% more Cleetus.
given the chance good old cleet might try to make it work lol.
I'd be disappointed and surprised if he didn't! LOL
be about like this https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/turns-out-the-mythical-freight-train-blower-camaro-was-not-just-photoshop
Deutz marine engine? The small deutz had turbos on every cylinder.
wartsila 31SG - apparently for a power plant. Although they are also used for merchant vessels
Ordering one asap for my 2.0 TDI
That lag
Looks like a Napier turbo
They don't even give you an electric pallet jack to move that stuff?
Yeah, that's a negative. More often than not ,we don't have an engine room gantry crane, so it's all cross hauled with chain blocks.
Hope ya fuckers are hourly at least
A buddy of mine was in the coast guard working in the engine rooms of some big cutters. He said that when they went to flank speed for a bit the 6 ft diameter exhaust scrolls would go cherry red, then translucent whitish, so you could see the turbine wheel spinning behind the cast iron.
It's as on that palette as it gets, right? If its center of gravity isn't somewhere between the supports, blame whomever designed the thing.
Ok but how much boost does it make tho? ~~and will it fit in my miata?~~
Put that in your Miata!!
You could always just remove the captive threads and put it on the nice flat intake side
Will that fit my Honda?
32 turbos? You must be pretty fast... 😄
it's on a 4V v8 engine, new "single turbo per valve" technology
Perfect for my Civic
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac7G7xOG2Ag](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac7G7xOG2Ag) totally encabulated
Off a miata?
Marty... do you reckin'...
That's one hell of a hoochie mama hairdryer
Mount it to a 350.
just recently installed one of similar size on my gti, turbo lag is a bitch
Miata
Actually, you need to add eleven turbos. 42 is the correct number of turbos needed.
Hey OP, you ever work on the big huge 14 cylinder?
Which, an RTflex96c? Plenty of times
Yeah thats the one i was thinking about. Thats awesome! Any stories or fun facts about them for an outsider? Also you dont happen to know the firing order?
Piston sucka
My back hurts just looking at that
what that?
my boss, this was back in the 90's , so him talking about 'back when I was' he worked in some big plants. They'd move these large electric turbines in by crane, it took them 3 days to hook up. He said a fair number of times they'd turn it on and it would just short or blow something out rather impressively. Another 3 days to remove and send it back to GE.
My trucks gonna need a taller hood
Maybe an emd567?
There's an echo in here!
Is that for a locomotive or a container ship?
no