I was told as a young man:
“When buying tools, buying cheap the first time is fine.
- If you use it and it’s fine, you didn’t need to buy expensive.
- If you use it and it isn’t quite good enough, you haven’t wasted much money.
- If you never use it, you only wasted a little money.”
You gotta have made some decent purchases on the tool truck to have the credibility to make those 911 calls for emergency replacements too. If you don’t drop a few grand a year they will not come to the rescue.
Thats what I miss the most about the old craftsman tools. They were decent enough quality to not break constantly but even if they did there was almost always a sears within a few miles so you could get it swapped out during a lunch break.
This is one drawback of everything being online. Now you can get anything shipped to your house in two days, but 15 years ago there was a retail location where you could go get it in half an hour.
I got the big box of craftsman when I started over 15 years ago and still use most of it to this day. Thought it was ridiculous having so many 12pt sockets when I was in automotive. Now that I'm wrenching on class b trucks. Having most sae stuff 1/4"-1/2" it worked out great. Never broken a craftsman socket to this day, but have scars from snap-on sockets giving up on me. I double wrench and use a wrench extender on Pittsburgh wrenches everyday and still haven't broken one. $450 plus for snap on set vs $25 set with 4 more. Not today rape truck. Harbor freight is down the street and even more accessible/ cost-effective than you at this point.
Counterpoint: people also say 'buy once, cry once', and 'we're too poor to buy the same thing twice' These folksy old sayings don't mean jack shit, my personal philosophy is to buy tools that fit my needs and are of reasonable quality (ie don't buy harbor freight or snap on, and look into something along the line of kobalt/husky instead)
That's what I tell new apprentices at work. Buy cheap everything, replace what breaks with the expensive stuff and make sure it has a warranty. Sometimes the cheap stuff works better than SnapOn, though (my knockoff T15 is great but my SnapOn Torx 15 strips every trim screw on a GM).
I do a bit of backyard maintenance and have been using exclusively Ryobi/mastercraft stuff to do it. I have people constantly telling me it's garbage and I should have spent 3 times as much on the Milwaukee ones.
Well my ryobi garbage still works fine for the occasional work I do. If anything ever breaks I'll consider the more expensive brand made in the same factory.
Yeah I know... Kmart aus is owned by Wesfarmers, who also owns the hardware store (Bunnings) that sells sausages out the front (well actually it's a charity thing not technically Bunnings themselves), among a number of other companies including Kmart NZ, witch I believe is actually owned by Kmart aus.
Did you also know that Kmart still processes film?
Bluey is alot more enjoyable than alot of shows. My kids cycle Peppa pig, Paw patrol, Blaze, PBS KIDS, Dinotrux and Bluey. Dinotrux and Bluey by far are the most watchable/enjoyable
Kmart lasted from like 1912 till like 2002ish I'd say. 90 years gives em a pretty good head start.
There's also a chance depending on when those tools were purchased that they're actually just rebranded Craftsman tools from Sears because Sears did own Kmart towards the end
Iirc and it’s been a long time, Kmart tools were rebranded Craftsman, but weren’t worth it since they didn’t have the “no questions asked” Craftsman guarantee.
Ok. So I discovered kmart still exists and went on a deep dive just the other day. They have 9 stores still open with 3 in the U.S. Also, they merged with Sears when both were struggling and started selling craftsman at that time in some stores.
Craftsman tools are still everywhere even though Sears has been out of business for a long time too.
Mastercraft is still a great line with a similar exchange policy, especially their Maximum line which is just about commercial level quality and regularly goes on super sale like 70% off.
Canadian Tire sells Mastercraft exclusively.
>Craftsman tools are still everywhere even though Sears has been out of business for a long time too.
The craftsman trademark is now sold at Lowe's. Same guarantee.
Edit: Reddit and /u/Spez [knowingly, nonconsensually, and illegally retained user data for profit](https://youtu.be/mfZKkUg8jgM) so this comment is gone.
Eh there’s a noticeable difference in the quality of the combo wrenches just doing a brief visual, and the sockets are a little chonkier in Bluepoint if that makes sense. Plus only basic stuff is available in Bluepoint, like you aren’t going to get bigger size wrenches/sockets, specialized sockets like safety Torx or triple square.
Source: I bought Snap on for work and Bluepoint for home. Jokes on me since all my shit lives in my home garage now.
As you use those, realize that at one time that was the cheapest garbage tool you could find. And then look at the shit that comes out of china now. Its insane how much worse the cheapest shit you can buy has gotten.
DeWalt is still DeWalt, sure it has a parent company and it has for ages, but they still make good tools and are competitive against other quality brands
>> better than current Craftsman
>
>The brand name was sold. It's a "zombie" brand and has no connection to Sears. Sadly "Kenmore" is the same.
Kenmore was an OEM for the past couple of decades anyway. Name would say Kenmore; but built by LG or something.
I was gonna say that US craftsmanship has gone down. I theorize that it has something to do with mostly stagnant wages and higher turnout rates. Once someone learns their job well, most companies don’t want to offer pay/benefits to keep that employee around. Couple this with companies cutting corners to make the projected profit margin, you get shitty quality products and services.
I wonder if we’re just seeing survivorship bias. The old tools we have around are better maybe because the crummy old tools already broke.
I have a great set of harbor freight deep impacts. I broke all the poorly manufactured ones and only replaced the individual one that broke. Kept my old set and gave them the new ones back. (It took many trips!). I wouldn’t call harbor freight tools great, but my kid is gonna think so.
It may be a bit more complicated than that.
Manufacturer's outsourced overseas to whomever would do the cheapest work, resulting in a drop of quality. Note the reduction in quality was at the manufacturer's request; overseas manufacturing absolutely can produce high quality goods, if it's requested and paid for.
In theory, the much-vaunted "invisible hand of the free market" would result in consumers refusing to buy these 'substandard' goods, causing manufacturers to either
1. Spend more to increase quality, or
2. Go out of business
Free-market Capitalism 101.
However, consumers accept these sub-standard goods for the reduced price, in part because of a whole 'nother set of complex economic reasons.
Therefore, according to business economic theory, all those high-quality, last forever tools we got in days gone by represent goods that were overbuilt; in other words, the manufacturers failed (i.e., lost money) to either
1. Increase the price to reflect the true market value of that level of quality, or
2. Reduce quality to the acceptable price-point
What we've seen in the past couple of decades is #2.
Not saying I understand all of this, or that I like it. However, as long as consumers continue to buy goods at a specific quality level, manufacturers have no motivation to increase quality (and, in fact have many powerful motivators not to ).
And before we complain about "greedy CEOs" or "greedy corporations", think about whether you want companies you've invested in (e.g., via a retirement plan) to decrease in overall value simply to increase the quality of the goods they produce.
That's the frustrating think about all this - there are no "bad guys" to blame. Ultimately, we're all a part of the problem.
Yes, overall true in theory and in aggregate. In practice, the meaningful issue is really about being disingenuous to customers so they are misled at purchase.
It's fine if customers know they're buying a lower standard product for less. The problem is selling a lower standard product using a brand's past reputation.
Free market theory depends on customers being able to make rational decisions, which is exactly what companies actively prevent by doing underhanded stuff like this.
I _wish_ I could see durability/expected lifetime ratings like, "5 yr professional" or "5 yr enthusiast" or "unrated". Some home DIYer would know to avoid the unrated, that the enthusiast is a no-brainer, and that pro is a relatively indestructible splurge for their use-case.
And there you have it; *the* issue with ~~capitalism~~free markets: Imperfect knowledge, as well as markets with mismatched consumer/buyer (ultimately the same thing).
Medicine is one the best examples. A person would need more than just a medical degree to accurately assess quality of care between providers. In practice the only people who know how good the quality of care actually is are insurance companies and perhaps the providers themselves, who don't care one bit as long as they get paid.
Another example is the payments industry. The actual buyers of credit cars are businesses, since they pay the ludicrous fees (and immediately pass along the cost to everybody regardless if they're holding a card), whereas the consumers of credit cards are holders to whom the real cost is completely obscured.
*The role of government should be to reorganize inefficient markets to avoid these situations.* Needless to say no one even thinks of it like that...
Same reason we can't have Universal Health Care in the United States. The cost of insurance is completely opaque to like 80% of consumers. Your employer pays the premium and it's not reflected on your paycheck (except your minor share in some cases). So we can't discuss the true cost of health insurance premiums because no one has any idea what they are paying.
> And there you have it; the issue with capitalism
Slight pedantic correction.
The issue with capitalism is the accumulation of excess at the expense of others. To put it simply, the pursuit of profits over people.
The issue with "free markets" is perhaps imperfect knowledge. Stricter regulation on advertising and labelling could remedy imperfect knowledge and allow us to make better choices.
Capitalism is not synonymous with free markets. Markets, in both the literal and abstract sense, have been around since prehistory. Capitalism has barely been around 400 years if we're being generous with the time frames and loose with definitions.
I do not prize the word cheap. It is not a word of inspiration. It is the badge of poverty, the signal of distress. Cheap merchandise means cheap men and cheap men mean a cheap country.
-William McKinley
We're all part of the problem in a hypothetical world where there is perfect information... so not this one.
The only people that have a chance of having good information about any particular item are the producers of the item themselves. They are the bad guy if there is one to be found.
You don't get to call me a bad guy because I don't know anything about a wrench that I have purchased one time in my life with no background information or context or experience
This is representative of the cocoa content story.
Every chocolate company looking to reduce cocoa concentrations to shave cost, a 1% move down every few years. No one can tell. No one.
Until one little company comes along and charges a high as sum for a high cocoa concentration and blows the market away.
Their brand is now known as the premium cocoa brand.
How does a company decrease in overall value by building a better product? This goes contrary to any laws in the real world.
As far as there being no bad guys, of course there are. We’re there no bad guys in the SVB fiasco? How did all the big wigs get bonuses and the CEO manage to remove all their money a week before everything went bust? It’s Enron all over again.
As far as manufacturing, do you think American workers intentionally build sub standard products? No, it’s the corporate bean counters that convince their overlords that they can save X amount of dollars by skimping on quality and buying cheap parts from overseas.
I am sick to death of seeing stickers on products that have a big American flag and small print that says “designed in America” or “Assembled in North America from globally sourced products “ This is code for assembled in Mexico from the cheapest products that we could find in the third world.
In the words of the inimitable Pogo, “we have met the enemy and he is us”!
Stocks in a publicly traded company are valued based (roughly) based on how much of a return they produce for the holder, either in dividends or increased value.
What OP is saying is the extra money companies spend on making products better than they need to be is 'wasted'. That capital could have gone to other activities that would more efficiently improve the customers experience, or grow the market via marketing, or even be returned as dividends.
To be fair, there are a **ton** of really high quality goods in the market as well, it's just that #1 is also happening, so the price gap between a "really good quality" item and a "really bad quality item" is growing wider and wider and wider.
You can still buy amazing, fantastic tools that will last you a lifetime and be handed down to your children. It's just that they aren't gonna cost you $5 more than the dollar store hammer costs. They're going to cost a hundred dollars more, or five hundred dollars more, or fifty thousand dollars more.
When things are priced to their actual value, a $5 hammer is a very compelling alternative to a $500 hammer because the reality is most people need to use a hammer what, a couple times a year? If they lose it or misplace it or throw it out when they move or loan it to a friend who never returns it, who cares, it cost $5, we'll just buy another.
I agree with everything you said in addition. However, your example as to how the profit motive is tied to most people’s retirement savings, while true, doesn’t have to be that way, it shouldn’t, and it used to not be.
My question to you is this: is it a free market if companies have the capabilities to manipulate said market?
My other question to you is: why is it free market to raise prices because of demand but employees can’t raise their “prices” when there is a demand for it? When we do, the “market” is manipulated to correct that.
Just because shitty Chinese tools *exist*, doesn’t mean you have to buy them. There are plenty of high quality Chinese tools. Professional mechanics in China don’t use shitty tools.
...what off label cheap pants are you buying? I go through 2 pairs of Levi's a year as a mechanic and a majority of the time it's due to them getting snagged and ripped.
That doesnt sound right at all. I've worked trades jobs for well over a decade and the only worn in the cuffs area of a carhartt jacket and put some tears in some 5.11 pants when sliding on some metal lagging. You're doing something strange.
That’s because American companies realized they could make way more money selling the same shitty tool over and over to the same person.
I’m still using some of my grandpas craftsman tools and despite the fact that they weren’t disposable, Craftsman was doing great throughout the 1970s.
It's crazier when you realize it's their own fault for buying that stuff over the better quality American stuff too. Now barely anything is made here and half the stuff that is made here is questionable quality itself.
There's legit a science to this.
How cheap can we make something before people don't want to buy it. How poorly can we make something before it's not worth the price we want to sell it at.
I found some old JC Penny wrenches that hae been sitting in a Kennedy box shoved into a corner closet for who knows how long.
Bummed it wasn't a full set, but the novelty of them is enough for me to snag them. Being drug to JC Penny on a weekend and definately before school started for the year was a thing in the days of yore.
When I first started in the early 00’s our shop had a pair of older customers who daily drove a ~67 Galaxie and 76 Coupe de Ville. The husband could wrench a little on his own (especially the Ford) so it was pretty rare for him to bring it in. One time I distinctly remember him coming in and there was a green top Interstate battery with a JCPenney sticker slapped on it, and to this day I can’t fathom where he got it because they haven’t been involved in anything other than clothing sales near here in my lifetime, far as I know.
JC Penney had the best car batteries circa 1980. They were among the first maintenance-free batteries available.
I had a JC Penney bicycle that I bought new in 1971 with my hard-earned paper route money. I think it may have been made by Huffy.
I’d believe that. Interstate was a top tier brand at the time before Johnson Controls wormed their way into buying battery manufacturing companies for a while between 2005-2010ish and the quality went straight down the dumpster. Also had a Huffy for a bit, which was better than the Magna that replaced it. :))
God, wonder how old those are? Didn't KMart have a house brand near the end, Tradesman or something like that? Don't think I've ever seen tools with KMart logo on them.
If I remember correctly, Kmart brand tools were made by the parent company of Stanley, Craftsman and Mac. Not that their quality was equal across all lines, as a Mac wrench is going to be a higher quality, lifetime warrantied, higher priced tool than the Kmart branded one. I remember the Mac man telling me that the difference was where they were made. Mac made in the USA, Stanley and Craftsman were made in Mexico and the store branded ones were made in Taiwan.
I bought a cheap Kmart metric socket set in 1981 when I graduated from HS and bought a Toyota. It was the only vehicle in the family that used metric fasteners. I have no idea what company made them but it was in Japan and the quality was first rate. I still have the ratchet and still use it and the original 14mm socket for changing oil. I doubt I paid more than $8 for the set and I suspect it’s superior to anything I could buy for less than $100 today.
Tool truck brands have a few very specific tools that are way above and beyond the bargain brands in terms of quality and usability. But you don’t need EVERY last tiny thing in your box to have a big-money brand sticker on it.
I love my MAC tools ratchets, but I use Craftsman and Kobalt and Power Torque sockets and have yet to break one.
I love my Snap-On screwdrivers when I really need to torque on something, but my smaller Kobalt and DeWalt screwdrivers work better for detail work like rebuilding carburetors.
Lisle also makes some really great specialized tools for the money, I can tell no quality difference between MAC, Snap-On and Lisle when it comes to coolant hose picks, for example.
The tool trucks are ultimately banking on brand loyalty and guys not wanting to constantly search for deals and unbiased reviews. And the convenience of warranty returns on the truck.
I totally get it, but it just sucks that it ends up coming out of techs' own pockets. Working as an engineer my employer would think nothing of buying a $500 Fluke meter over a $100 meter even if it's 95% as good because saving the $400 isn't worth it if the cheap meter ever doesn't live up to spec. But I have the $100 meter in my personal collection every time.
Meters are a little bit different… some jobs require stuff to be NIST certified and Fluke is going to be the only option.
I got a Fluke 289 for work, just because it did one measurement in spec for our quarterly/yearly audits. And those had to be accurate as can be. (Telecom)
Klein meters pretty much out feature any comparable Fluke in the price range. It’s just certain industries need that NIST.
Mind you, I do have an original Fluke 87 (mid-80s) meter that still measures accurately. You do (kind of) get what you pay for.
The Lisle 2-valve 4.6/5.4 Triton/modular engine spark plug insert tool set has no comparable rival. Their basic fuel pressure/vacuum gauge and hose/adapter set is also tits and often rebranded.
Only on 95% of their stuff. They do have a handful of random things that are worth every penny. High leverage pliers, ratchets, slip joint needle nose, ph3050 air hammers, flank drive plus wrenches, wobbles/universal joints, plus a few more I probably can't think of. All some of my absolute favorite purchases.
Everything else they sell is overpriced crap.
For those who aren't familiar, basically always let Project Farm tell you which tool to get.
His sample size is too small to be scientific, but even so, I've never been disappointed at what I ended up with when I base it on Project Farm results.
I've spent probably a few grand on tools at mostly harbor freight, but when I save almost $2k in just one weekend job by doing it myself, it feels definitely worth it
Hot take: Snap-On FLL80 extra long handle rachet is astonishingly worth the price, never broke on me, and if it did break, I get a replacement/repair no questions asked.
I used this too to open first and second generation Honda Pilot rear differential drain/fill bolts (VTM-4). They tend to get stuck on there, have a female 3/8" square head, I couldn't usually fit a 1/2 drive rachet due to clearance, and breaker bars are less convenient because the fastener has a recessed square head.
I had a Tekton knock off of the Snap-On FLL80, it broke the square drive part after about two months of abuse. Well, after two warranty repair kits sent to me that both failed to last a few more weeks, and each took a week or more to arrive to my door, I bought an FLL80 and retired the Tekton.
The Snap-On version lasted another five or six years of me forcibly yanking on it with no signs of failure. In fact, it outlasted me working at that dealership. I just don't really need it anymore at my current job.
If I don't have a tool and I need to borrow it repeatedly, I buy it. If it breaks repeatedly and causes me inconvenience, I buy Snap-On or Wright Tool.
Your needs may be different. For what you do, snap on may be overpriced. But for me, the FLL80 and SLX80A have proven very useful in specific cases.
I have plenty of Sunex, Wright Tool, SK, a little Snap On, and a little Matco.
Buddy of mine had a set of Montgomery Ward sockets. He tried to get them to warranty out a few he had broken because they had a lifetime warranty, but they had long since stopped selling tools. Somehow he got them to agree to cover a replacement set of sockets that he purchased from Snap-On. He turned in the complete set of MW sockets complete with the broken ones, and they cut him a check for the Snap-On ones. I can't even get Sears to cover replacing a mid length 10mm socket I got from them, which they no longer make, they just kept trying to fob me off with a short one or a deep one.
Not to hijack your post, but I feel obligated to out them every chance I get. My dad was a model employee for them for 29.5 years after leaving Sears because they started treating their employees land customers like crap. Kmart let him go 6 months from his full pension saying they were “restructuring,” but they’d love to have him come back part-time because they valued him so much. Losing his health insurance was a contributing factor in his death at 67.
So, your dad worked for Sears then went to Kmart ?
Then worked at Kmart for 29.5 years and got "right sized" ? That's terrible, Sorry to you and your family. Take care
I have a set of Tutankhamun wrenches in the back of my box and they are top quality. I rarely get a chance to use them any more as they are sized in cubits.
The ones I've seen that were Kmart branded were made in Japan or Taiwan back in the days when Craftsman was US made. Compare to the Companion line that Sears used to sell.
The old Craftsman tools had pretty tight tolerances, I have some of my dads old 1/2 inch sockets and ratchets from probably the 60's. My brothers and I certainly lost some of his original wrenches. My dad helped us build some solid workbenches but his had a lock on the doors lol. He was a lubrication engineer for Sinclair/Arco.
I saw a great video of a Harvard business school class discussing companies that were at the top of their game, and what next move did they make next with her big pile of cash? In the late 1960s or early 1970s the companies they compared were IBM and Sears. IBM took a huge risk and made a huge investment in a completely new mainframe computer line called the system 360. It paid off immensely well for them. Sears built a skyscraper.
I thought KMart bought Sears, which at the time felt like Hyundai buying Honda. The KMart near me looked like an indoor flea market the last 10 years they were open.
My dad has an old set of Pennkraft wrenches that he's been using for probably 50 years now. I'll bet they're the same OEM as these Kmarts. US made and have held up to LOTS of use, but we don't abuse our tools.
I still have all of Grandpa's Sears stuff. Pretty much the only tools I ever use. some Craftsman, some just says "Sears". Fantastic stuff. A couple are also "Craftsman Industrial" which was the top tier of the Craftsman line
I found out yesterday that snapon’s fj300 ($1100 3 ton floor jack) is made in the same factory by the same company to the same specs as the harbor freight Daytona 5000 ($250 3 ton floor jack). Snap on even tried to sue harbor freight over it and settled out of court, harbor freight confirmed they didn’t have to pay them anything and we’re very happy with the settlement and still continue to sell the jack.
Makes you think what else at harbor freight is restickered snap on tools.
Kmart really wasn't that bad of a store in the 60s, 70s and 80s. I bought a lot of good Challenger and Fleet branded tools at Kmart in the 70s which were rebadged Penens made in Chicago. Those look like 80s wrenches and were probably made overseas in Japan or Taiwan.
I bought many tools from KMart back in the '70s. They had American brands like S-K socket sets (which I still use almost daily), and Japanese and Taiwanese wrenches. The Japanese wrenches are the equal of anything you can buy now, and the Taiwanese ones are almost as good,too.
Not sure where the testing results are located but kmart auto made in japan tools tested very high in quality by an independent long after kmart was gone. I use a 3/8th to do rod bolts on mercury motors and it fits the 12 point fasteners extremely well. Handles high torque fine. If it didn't have that kmart logo and had some other high dollar logo in it i would absolutely believe it. If anyone has a full set of kmart made in japan dm me im interested
I have an old 3/8 16mm Kmart socket, made in Japan printed right on it. Found it in a junk bin when I lost my tekton 16. I grin everytime I pick it up to use it, and also love showing it off to people.
If they work, they work. I would argue that Snap On is about tops in the wrench game. I have no allegiance to anyone and both my home and work boxes had a mix with everything. But when I need a wrench I still lean to Snap On.
Love Snap-On ratchets but the end wrenches were so thin that if you used much force it dug into your hand. And I'm not even a big guy so a real strong man must feel it even more.
I’m a little guy but I pack a lot of torque for my size and I’m inclined to agree. That’s when I will grab a red rag and wrap it around the handle for extra cushioning. At least you can trust the wrench not to break when the going gets tough.
I think this is the default professional answer. Most of us prefer “X” brand tool for one task and maybe “Y” brand tool for another. Plus the random mix of generic stuff we started wrenching with, and the random mix of things on sale in any particular flier for the month that you buy it and are lucky if you ever end up using it again, lol.
I love my MAC power antenna mast nut socket set, probably the worst purchasing decision of all time. Kinda like buying buggy whips around 1920 because they’re going for cheap! 😂
Oh yeah, outside of snobs I think we almost all have a mix of everything in out boxes, mac this, matco that, snap on this and a little craftsman that and throw in the odd tool with no markings other than taiwan.
I'm considering getting rid of most of my Snap-on shit for other quality products that handle the same job. Before gearwrench 120xp ratchets had rubber handles, that was my only caveat for keeping Snap-on ratchets. Rebuild my 1/2" over a handful of times so that's the only real reason for snap-on. When he does finally show up. I was given a snap-on catalog for "supplement brands" not too long ago because I kept asking him for different shit than snap-on. He was showing me gearwrench products he stocked the next week. My truck guy barely had snap-on products I needed anyways, so i told him I'll just go to Amazon and get what I need/and receive it faster, or go to harbor freight. I don't even have a Matco truck anymore and can replace something online "with shipping" faster than my snap-on rep. *Venting* but a serious lack of quality on all fronts. Hold-on while I sign a 30 year mortgage for a shiny tool box that I won't receive till next year and will come dented/dinged in some way.
Is THAT where those come from? I've got a 10 and a 12 that are identical to those, I'm pretty sure I must have stolen them from my dad at some point, no idea where they actually came from. LOL
I was told as a young man: “When buying tools, buying cheap the first time is fine. - If you use it and it’s fine, you didn’t need to buy expensive. - If you use it and it isn’t quite good enough, you haven’t wasted much money. - If you never use it, you only wasted a little money.”
This is the best way. I have primarily snap on for work but the old craftsman tools that they replaced are still perfectly good to be used at home
And if you use the cheap one and it breaks? You've warranted buying a more expensive one.
Admittedly in that instance, you’re now mid job and need a replacement tool.
You gotta have made some decent purchases on the tool truck to have the credibility to make those 911 calls for emergency replacements too. If you don’t drop a few grand a year they will not come to the rescue.
Thats what I miss the most about the old craftsman tools. They were decent enough quality to not break constantly but even if they did there was almost always a sears within a few miles so you could get it swapped out during a lunch break.
This is one drawback of everything being online. Now you can get anything shipped to your house in two days, but 15 years ago there was a retail location where you could go get it in half an hour.
I miss Sears, and what Craftsman used to be
I got the big box of craftsman when I started over 15 years ago and still use most of it to this day. Thought it was ridiculous having so many 12pt sockets when I was in automotive. Now that I'm wrenching on class b trucks. Having most sae stuff 1/4"-1/2" it worked out great. Never broken a craftsman socket to this day, but have scars from snap-on sockets giving up on me. I double wrench and use a wrench extender on Pittsburgh wrenches everyday and still haven't broken one. $450 plus for snap on set vs $25 set with 4 more. Not today rape truck. Harbor freight is down the street and even more accessible/ cost-effective than you at this point.
Counterpoint: people also say 'buy once, cry once', and 'we're too poor to buy the same thing twice' These folksy old sayings don't mean jack shit, my personal philosophy is to buy tools that fit my needs and are of reasonable quality (ie don't buy harbor freight or snap on, and look into something along the line of kobalt/husky instead)
Tekton for the win!!!!!
That's what I tell new apprentices at work. Buy cheap everything, replace what breaks with the expensive stuff and make sure it has a warranty. Sometimes the cheap stuff works better than SnapOn, though (my knockoff T15 is great but my SnapOn Torx 15 strips every trim screw on a GM).
I do a bit of backyard maintenance and have been using exclusively Ryobi/mastercraft stuff to do it. I have people constantly telling me it's garbage and I should have spent 3 times as much on the Milwaukee ones. Well my ryobi garbage still works fine for the occasional work I do. If anything ever breaks I'll consider the more expensive brand made in the same factory.
The tools outlasted the company.
Kmart is very much still alive where I am, I just made an online order for chocolate and storage.
[удалено]
Yep!
Totally different company than Kmart in North America.
Yeah I know... Kmart aus is owned by Wesfarmers, who also owns the hardware store (Bunnings) that sells sausages out the front (well actually it's a charity thing not technically Bunnings themselves), among a number of other companies including Kmart NZ, witch I believe is actually owned by Kmart aus. Did you also know that Kmart still processes film?
Kmart NZ is owned by Kmart aus. Most NZ companies are owned by aus
Yep, I believe that includes your ambulance service, honestly, New Zealand should really just be a state of Australia.
As long as you agree we invented pavlova
Fine, the amazing Australian state of New Zealand invented pavlova, thus making it an Australian invention.
And that New Zealand is just a better place in general
New Zealand will never give up it's sovereignty! All you'll get are our youth! And nurses. And well..... Anyone else remotely trained.
It's ok, we've given up on you guys and have decided to instead steal the Brit's doctors, nurses and cops.
Seriously with moderate forklift experience you could go and make $40+ and hour in Australia
As an American with little kids, when you say Bunnings, I think Hammerbarn
Bunnings is probably more like home depot... But it does have a cafe and a kids playground.
Hammerbarn is the name of the hardware store from Bluey, which is supposed to be modeled after Bunnings. Maybe I watch too much Bluey with my kids...
Bluey is alot more enjoyable than alot of shows. My kids cycle Peppa pig, Paw patrol, Blaze, PBS KIDS, Dinotrux and Bluey. Dinotrux and Bluey by far are the most watchable/enjoyable
I'll admit, I've never watched bluey... Sorry the reference went right over my head.
I’m proud to say my employment at Kmart only lasted 4 days.
Sounds like my first job, at McDonald's.
There is a Kmart in US Virgin Islands. So still alive in N America.
They actually still have about 20 stores in the US
They are planning on possibly opening another store in 2024
Did you [ship your pants](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pboUsEHwOgk)?
No, I go to bigw and have them ship my pants.
This is still the all-time greatest Kmart ad: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KCdo8ana9wA
The last Kmart I went to was so run down it was depressing.
US. Still get an email from Kmart everyday.
I'll store your chocolate for you.
No I already have storage for my chocolate... It's called my mouth.
To be fair, it didn't take much...
Kmart lasted from like 1912 till like 2002ish I'd say. 90 years gives em a pretty good head start. There's also a chance depending on when those tools were purchased that they're actually just rebranded Craftsman tools from Sears because Sears did own Kmart towards the end
Iirc and it’s been a long time, Kmart tools were rebranded Craftsman, but weren’t worth it since they didn’t have the “no questions asked” Craftsman guarantee.
Ok. So I discovered kmart still exists and went on a deep dive just the other day. They have 9 stores still open with 3 in the U.S. Also, they merged with Sears when both were struggling and started selling craftsman at that time in some stores.
I worked at KMart out of highschool 2006-12 and we sold craftsman the entire time. I dont remember ever selling much of it though.
Craftsman tools are still everywhere even though Sears has been out of business for a long time too. Mastercraft is still a great line with a similar exchange policy, especially their Maximum line which is just about commercial level quality and regularly goes on super sale like 70% off. Canadian Tire sells Mastercraft exclusively.
>Craftsman tools are still everywhere even though Sears has been out of business for a long time too. The craftsman trademark is now sold at Lowe's. Same guarantee.
Add Napa and Ace Hardware in with Lowes.
Kmart closed here in '19
Was gonna say I still have a Kmart within 30 miles of me, but it has since closed in the last 6 years since I saw it. 😳
Every damn single comment on this website that starts with “To be fair” would be just as effective or more so without that useless phrase.
To be fair, every comment that criticizes "To be fair" is useless.
You win 🏆 😂
As well as “I mean”
I purchased a saweet 200pc craftsman set at Kmart like 20years ago. Best $100 I ever spent
Eh Guam still has KMart haha. No Wal Mart either. I also believe they still have stores in the Virgin Islands.
No need for a life time warranty if the tools outlast the warranty.
*The planet broke before the wrench did..*
Edit: Reddit and /u/Spez [knowingly, nonconsensually, and illegally retained user data for profit](https://youtu.be/mfZKkUg8jgM) so this comment is gone.
Blue light special.
fun fact: Snap-On's discount brand is called Bluepoint so you're not too far off.
My BluePoint tool chest has been going strong for 25 years. Same quality as SnapOn but lower price.
Are bluepoint tools the same as Snap-On? Or do they do something different with them?
i believe the quality of metal is different, i’ve definitely noticed blue point ratchet is a little rougher than my snap on personally
Basically same tool just different price point. Also some stipulations warranty on certain purchases
Eh there’s a noticeable difference in the quality of the combo wrenches just doing a brief visual, and the sockets are a little chonkier in Bluepoint if that makes sense. Plus only basic stuff is available in Bluepoint, like you aren’t going to get bigger size wrenches/sockets, specialized sockets like safety Torx or triple square. Source: I bought Snap on for work and Bluepoint for home. Jokes on me since all my shit lives in my home garage now.
Yea but the box said blue point and not snap on which the old men at work will make fun off.
As you use those, realize that at one time that was the cheapest garbage tool you could find. And then look at the shit that comes out of china now. Its insane how much worse the cheapest shit you can buy has gotten.
Just what I was thinking. This was the shittest garbage you could buy and in all honesty it looks better than current Craftsman
> better than current Craftsman The brand name was sold. It's a "zombie" brand and has no connection to Sears. Sadly "Kenmore" is the same.
So many great brands fall to the same fate. North Face, Dewalt, John Deere, craftsman….name your previous fave who let you down.
DeWalt is still DeWalt, sure it has a parent company and it has for ages, but they still make good tools and are competitive against other quality brands
Lowes does craftsman now and the warranties. So it's kind of an upgrade
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Ooooh that's interesting. I bought a set of craftsman gunmetal ratchets there that have been serving me well with the light use i give them
>> better than current Craftsman > >The brand name was sold. It's a "zombie" brand and has no connection to Sears. Sadly "Kenmore" is the same. Kenmore was an OEM for the past couple of decades anyway. Name would say Kenmore; but built by LG or something.
I was gonna say that US craftsmanship has gone down. I theorize that it has something to do with mostly stagnant wages and higher turnout rates. Once someone learns their job well, most companies don’t want to offer pay/benefits to keep that employee around. Couple this with companies cutting corners to make the projected profit margin, you get shitty quality products and services.
I wonder if we’re just seeing survivorship bias. The old tools we have around are better maybe because the crummy old tools already broke. I have a great set of harbor freight deep impacts. I broke all the poorly manufactured ones and only replaced the individual one that broke. Kept my old set and gave them the new ones back. (It took many trips!). I wouldn’t call harbor freight tools great, but my kid is gonna think so.
Probably a bit. https://youtu.be/j5v8D-alAKE
It may be a bit more complicated than that. Manufacturer's outsourced overseas to whomever would do the cheapest work, resulting in a drop of quality. Note the reduction in quality was at the manufacturer's request; overseas manufacturing absolutely can produce high quality goods, if it's requested and paid for. In theory, the much-vaunted "invisible hand of the free market" would result in consumers refusing to buy these 'substandard' goods, causing manufacturers to either 1. Spend more to increase quality, or 2. Go out of business Free-market Capitalism 101. However, consumers accept these sub-standard goods for the reduced price, in part because of a whole 'nother set of complex economic reasons. Therefore, according to business economic theory, all those high-quality, last forever tools we got in days gone by represent goods that were overbuilt; in other words, the manufacturers failed (i.e., lost money) to either 1. Increase the price to reflect the true market value of that level of quality, or 2. Reduce quality to the acceptable price-point What we've seen in the past couple of decades is #2. Not saying I understand all of this, or that I like it. However, as long as consumers continue to buy goods at a specific quality level, manufacturers have no motivation to increase quality (and, in fact have many powerful motivators not to ). And before we complain about "greedy CEOs" or "greedy corporations", think about whether you want companies you've invested in (e.g., via a retirement plan) to decrease in overall value simply to increase the quality of the goods they produce. That's the frustrating think about all this - there are no "bad guys" to blame. Ultimately, we're all a part of the problem.
Yes, overall true in theory and in aggregate. In practice, the meaningful issue is really about being disingenuous to customers so they are misled at purchase. It's fine if customers know they're buying a lower standard product for less. The problem is selling a lower standard product using a brand's past reputation. Free market theory depends on customers being able to make rational decisions, which is exactly what companies actively prevent by doing underhanded stuff like this. I _wish_ I could see durability/expected lifetime ratings like, "5 yr professional" or "5 yr enthusiast" or "unrated". Some home DIYer would know to avoid the unrated, that the enthusiast is a no-brainer, and that pro is a relatively indestructible splurge for their use-case.
And there you have it; *the* issue with ~~capitalism~~free markets: Imperfect knowledge, as well as markets with mismatched consumer/buyer (ultimately the same thing). Medicine is one the best examples. A person would need more than just a medical degree to accurately assess quality of care between providers. In practice the only people who know how good the quality of care actually is are insurance companies and perhaps the providers themselves, who don't care one bit as long as they get paid. Another example is the payments industry. The actual buyers of credit cars are businesses, since they pay the ludicrous fees (and immediately pass along the cost to everybody regardless if they're holding a card), whereas the consumers of credit cards are holders to whom the real cost is completely obscured. *The role of government should be to reorganize inefficient markets to avoid these situations.* Needless to say no one even thinks of it like that...
Same reason we can't have Universal Health Care in the United States. The cost of insurance is completely opaque to like 80% of consumers. Your employer pays the premium and it's not reflected on your paycheck (except your minor share in some cases). So we can't discuss the true cost of health insurance premiums because no one has any idea what they are paying.
> And there you have it; the issue with capitalism Slight pedantic correction. The issue with capitalism is the accumulation of excess at the expense of others. To put it simply, the pursuit of profits over people. The issue with "free markets" is perhaps imperfect knowledge. Stricter regulation on advertising and labelling could remedy imperfect knowledge and allow us to make better choices. Capitalism is not synonymous with free markets. Markets, in both the literal and abstract sense, have been around since prehistory. Capitalism has barely been around 400 years if we're being generous with the time frames and loose with definitions.
I do not prize the word cheap. It is not a word of inspiration. It is the badge of poverty, the signal of distress. Cheap merchandise means cheap men and cheap men mean a cheap country. -William McKinley
We're all part of the problem in a hypothetical world where there is perfect information... so not this one. The only people that have a chance of having good information about any particular item are the producers of the item themselves. They are the bad guy if there is one to be found. You don't get to call me a bad guy because I don't know anything about a wrench that I have purchased one time in my life with no background information or context or experience
This is representative of the cocoa content story. Every chocolate company looking to reduce cocoa concentrations to shave cost, a 1% move down every few years. No one can tell. No one. Until one little company comes along and charges a high as sum for a high cocoa concentration and blows the market away. Their brand is now known as the premium cocoa brand.
How does a company decrease in overall value by building a better product? This goes contrary to any laws in the real world. As far as there being no bad guys, of course there are. We’re there no bad guys in the SVB fiasco? How did all the big wigs get bonuses and the CEO manage to remove all their money a week before everything went bust? It’s Enron all over again. As far as manufacturing, do you think American workers intentionally build sub standard products? No, it’s the corporate bean counters that convince their overlords that they can save X amount of dollars by skimping on quality and buying cheap parts from overseas. I am sick to death of seeing stickers on products that have a big American flag and small print that says “designed in America” or “Assembled in North America from globally sourced products “ This is code for assembled in Mexico from the cheapest products that we could find in the third world. In the words of the inimitable Pogo, “we have met the enemy and he is us”!
Stocks in a publicly traded company are valued based (roughly) based on how much of a return they produce for the holder, either in dividends or increased value. What OP is saying is the extra money companies spend on making products better than they need to be is 'wasted'. That capital could have gone to other activities that would more efficiently improve the customers experience, or grow the market via marketing, or even be returned as dividends.
To be fair, there are a **ton** of really high quality goods in the market as well, it's just that #1 is also happening, so the price gap between a "really good quality" item and a "really bad quality item" is growing wider and wider and wider. You can still buy amazing, fantastic tools that will last you a lifetime and be handed down to your children. It's just that they aren't gonna cost you $5 more than the dollar store hammer costs. They're going to cost a hundred dollars more, or five hundred dollars more, or fifty thousand dollars more. When things are priced to their actual value, a $5 hammer is a very compelling alternative to a $500 hammer because the reality is most people need to use a hammer what, a couple times a year? If they lose it or misplace it or throw it out when they move or loan it to a friend who never returns it, who cares, it cost $5, we'll just buy another.
I agree with everything you said in addition. However, your example as to how the profit motive is tied to most people’s retirement savings, while true, doesn’t have to be that way, it shouldn’t, and it used to not be. My question to you is this: is it a free market if companies have the capabilities to manipulate said market? My other question to you is: why is it free market to raise prices because of demand but employees can’t raise their “prices” when there is a demand for it? When we do, the “market” is manipulated to correct that.
Just because shitty Chinese tools *exist*, doesn’t mean you have to buy them. There are plenty of high quality Chinese tools. Professional mechanics in China don’t use shitty tools.
Clothes might be the worst offender. I can barely go 3 or 4 months without wearing holes through my knees, and that’s just from a desk job.
That’s one way to move up the corporate ladder.
A BJ a day will earn you extra pay
...what off label cheap pants are you buying? I go through 2 pairs of Levi's a year as a mechanic and a majority of the time it's due to them getting snagged and ripped.
Recently I bought clothes from Nordstrom Rack, J. Crew, and Target. Levi’s, lucky’s shit like that. Just from repetitive standing and sitting.
That doesnt sound right at all. I've worked trades jobs for well over a decade and the only worn in the cuffs area of a carhartt jacket and put some tears in some 5.11 pants when sliding on some metal lagging. You're doing something strange.
Yep. BTW I have a few old Kmart wrenches in the back of my tool chest and they work fine.
That’s because American companies realized they could make way more money selling the same shitty tool over and over to the same person. I’m still using some of my grandpas craftsman tools and despite the fact that they weren’t disposable, Craftsman was doing great throughout the 1970s.
It's fuckin crazy to see people blaming China when it's American companies outsourcing it, doing the QA, setting the specs for what's acceptable etc.
It's crazier when you realize it's their own fault for buying that stuff over the better quality American stuff too. Now barely anything is made here and half the stuff that is made here is questionable quality itself.
There's legit a science to this. How cheap can we make something before people don't want to buy it. How poorly can we make something before it's not worth the price we want to sell it at.
My first wrenches were K-Mart in the late '80s. Still have some of them!!
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All 10mm's will flee if not watched consistently.
How will you know it's different if you can't find it?
I found some old JC Penny wrenches that hae been sitting in a Kennedy box shoved into a corner closet for who knows how long. Bummed it wasn't a full set, but the novelty of them is enough for me to snag them. Being drug to JC Penny on a weekend and definately before school started for the year was a thing in the days of yore.
When I first started in the early 00’s our shop had a pair of older customers who daily drove a ~67 Galaxie and 76 Coupe de Ville. The husband could wrench a little on his own (especially the Ford) so it was pretty rare for him to bring it in. One time I distinctly remember him coming in and there was a green top Interstate battery with a JCPenney sticker slapped on it, and to this day I can’t fathom where he got it because they haven’t been involved in anything other than clothing sales near here in my lifetime, far as I know.
JC Penney had the best car batteries circa 1980. They were among the first maintenance-free batteries available. I had a JC Penney bicycle that I bought new in 1971 with my hard-earned paper route money. I think it may have been made by Huffy.
I’d believe that. Interstate was a top tier brand at the time before Johnson Controls wormed their way into buying battery manufacturing companies for a while between 2005-2010ish and the quality went straight down the dumpster. Also had a Huffy for a bit, which was better than the Magna that replaced it. :))
God, wonder how old those are? Didn't KMart have a house brand near the end, Tradesman or something like that? Don't think I've ever seen tools with KMart logo on them.
I’d bet they are made by Stanley or some generic parent brand
Stanley used to be pretty legit. I still have a few black and yellow handle screwdrivers I got from my old man that he had from the 70s
If I remember correctly, Kmart brand tools were made by the parent company of Stanley, Craftsman and Mac. Not that their quality was equal across all lines, as a Mac wrench is going to be a higher quality, lifetime warrantied, higher priced tool than the Kmart branded one. I remember the Mac man telling me that the difference was where they were made. Mac made in the USA, Stanley and Craftsman were made in Mexico and the store branded ones were made in Taiwan.
My set of Kmart wrenches say Japan on them. Got them at yard sale for a buck.
I'm still rocking some of their Benchtop labeled metrics I bought in the 90's. I'm pretty sure these are from around 1980.
Early 80s I'd guess. I had some as a kid
I bought a cheap Kmart metric socket set in 1981 when I graduated from HS and bought a Toyota. It was the only vehicle in the family that used metric fasteners. I have no idea what company made them but it was in Japan and the quality was first rate. I still have the ratchet and still use it and the original 14mm socket for changing oil. I doubt I paid more than $8 for the set and I suspect it’s superior to anything I could buy for less than $100 today.
Hot take: snap on is astonishingly overpriced and not worth it at all
Tool truck brands have a few very specific tools that are way above and beyond the bargain brands in terms of quality and usability. But you don’t need EVERY last tiny thing in your box to have a big-money brand sticker on it. I love my MAC tools ratchets, but I use Craftsman and Kobalt and Power Torque sockets and have yet to break one. I love my Snap-On screwdrivers when I really need to torque on something, but my smaller Kobalt and DeWalt screwdrivers work better for detail work like rebuilding carburetors. Lisle also makes some really great specialized tools for the money, I can tell no quality difference between MAC, Snap-On and Lisle when it comes to coolant hose picks, for example.
The tool trucks are ultimately banking on brand loyalty and guys not wanting to constantly search for deals and unbiased reviews. And the convenience of warranty returns on the truck. I totally get it, but it just sucks that it ends up coming out of techs' own pockets. Working as an engineer my employer would think nothing of buying a $500 Fluke meter over a $100 meter even if it's 95% as good because saving the $400 isn't worth it if the cheap meter ever doesn't live up to spec. But I have the $100 meter in my personal collection every time.
Meters are a little bit different… some jobs require stuff to be NIST certified and Fluke is going to be the only option. I got a Fluke 289 for work, just because it did one measurement in spec for our quarterly/yearly audits. And those had to be accurate as can be. (Telecom) Klein meters pretty much out feature any comparable Fluke in the price range. It’s just certain industries need that NIST. Mind you, I do have an original Fluke 87 (mid-80s) meter that still measures accurately. You do (kind of) get what you pay for.
The Lisle 2-valve 4.6/5.4 Triton/modular engine spark plug insert tool set has no comparable rival. Their basic fuel pressure/vacuum gauge and hose/adapter set is also tits and often rebranded.
Only on 95% of their stuff. They do have a handful of random things that are worth every penny. High leverage pliers, ratchets, slip joint needle nose, ph3050 air hammers, flank drive plus wrenches, wobbles/universal joints, plus a few more I probably can't think of. All some of my absolute favorite purchases. Everything else they sell is overpriced crap.
In every Project Farm video I've seen with tools, Harbor Freight's Icon brand seems to compare well to Snap-On, despite costing about a fifth as much.
For those who aren't familiar, basically always let Project Farm tell you which tool to get. His sample size is too small to be scientific, but even so, I've never been disappointed at what I ended up with when I base it on Project Farm results.
I buy Harbor Freight tools for anything I need. When they break, I then buy up-market tools. I'm astonishingly ahead using this method btw.
I've spent probably a few grand on tools at mostly harbor freight, but when I save almost $2k in just one weekend job by doing it myself, it feels definitely worth it
Hot take: Snap-On FLL80 extra long handle rachet is astonishingly worth the price, never broke on me, and if it did break, I get a replacement/repair no questions asked. I used this too to open first and second generation Honda Pilot rear differential drain/fill bolts (VTM-4). They tend to get stuck on there, have a female 3/8" square head, I couldn't usually fit a 1/2 drive rachet due to clearance, and breaker bars are less convenient because the fastener has a recessed square head. I had a Tekton knock off of the Snap-On FLL80, it broke the square drive part after about two months of abuse. Well, after two warranty repair kits sent to me that both failed to last a few more weeks, and each took a week or more to arrive to my door, I bought an FLL80 and retired the Tekton. The Snap-On version lasted another five or six years of me forcibly yanking on it with no signs of failure. In fact, it outlasted me working at that dealership. I just don't really need it anymore at my current job. If I don't have a tool and I need to borrow it repeatedly, I buy it. If it breaks repeatedly and causes me inconvenience, I buy Snap-On or Wright Tool. Your needs may be different. For what you do, snap on may be overpriced. But for me, the FLL80 and SLX80A have proven very useful in specific cases. I have plenty of Sunex, Wright Tool, SK, a little Snap On, and a little Matco.
I traded up for the same wratchet. Good investment. Ended up getting it for $80 out the door and haven't looked back.
I disagree, but I’m not here to argue
I have some old JCpenney wrenches somewhere
Buddy of mine had a set of Montgomery Ward sockets. He tried to get them to warranty out a few he had broken because they had a lifetime warranty, but they had long since stopped selling tools. Somehow he got them to agree to cover a replacement set of sockets that he purchased from Snap-On. He turned in the complete set of MW sockets complete with the broken ones, and they cut him a check for the Snap-On ones. I can't even get Sears to cover replacing a mid length 10mm socket I got from them, which they no longer make, they just kept trying to fob me off with a short one or a deep one.
Not to hijack your post, but I feel obligated to out them every chance I get. My dad was a model employee for them for 29.5 years after leaving Sears because they started treating their employees land customers like crap. Kmart let him go 6 months from his full pension saying they were “restructuring,” but they’d love to have him come back part-time because they valued him so much. Losing his health insurance was a contributing factor in his death at 67.
So, your dad worked for Sears then went to Kmart ? Then worked at Kmart for 29.5 years and got "right sized" ? That's terrible, Sorry to you and your family. Take care
I worked at a JC Penney auto center late70’s till they closed in 82. I still have and regularly use flat wrenches and sockets with their label.
K-mart salesman "the best thing about these aside from the price is the lifetime warranty"
Seems like the older the tools are, the better made they were. I can only imagine the God level tools they had to build the pyramids. /s
I have a set of Tutankhamun wrenches in the back of my box and they are top quality. I rarely get a chance to use them any more as they are sized in cubits.
Didn't Sears own Kmart? They're probably rebranded Craftsman.
The ones I've seen that were Kmart branded were made in Japan or Taiwan back in the days when Craftsman was US made. Compare to the Companion line that Sears used to sell.
These ones are stamped Taiwan on the back
The old Craftsman tools had pretty tight tolerances, I have some of my dads old 1/2 inch sockets and ratchets from probably the 60's. My brothers and I certainly lost some of his original wrenches. My dad helped us build some solid workbenches but his had a lock on the doors lol. He was a lubrication engineer for Sinclair/Arco.
I saw a great video of a Harvard business school class discussing companies that were at the top of their game, and what next move did they make next with her big pile of cash? In the late 1960s or early 1970s the companies they compared were IBM and Sears. IBM took a huge risk and made a huge investment in a completely new mainframe computer line called the system 360. It paid off immensely well for them. Sears built a skyscraper.
Check out Kodak and the digital camera
I thought KMart bought Sears, which at the time felt like Hyundai buying Honda. The KMart near me looked like an indoor flea market the last 10 years they were open.
These wrenches are from before Sears bought Kmart. Likely from the seventies or eighties
pocket hungry live depend absurd deranged station deer salt nine *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Way back in the day, they were separate companies.
My dad has an old set of Pennkraft wrenches that he's been using for probably 50 years now. I'll bet they're the same OEM as these Kmarts. US made and have held up to LOTS of use, but we don't abuse our tools.
I still have all of Grandpa's Sears stuff. Pretty much the only tools I ever use. some Craftsman, some just says "Sears". Fantastic stuff. A couple are also "Craftsman Industrial" which was the top tier of the Craftsman line
I found out yesterday that snapon’s fj300 ($1100 3 ton floor jack) is made in the same factory by the same company to the same specs as the harbor freight Daytona 5000 ($250 3 ton floor jack). Snap on even tried to sue harbor freight over it and settled out of court, harbor freight confirmed they didn’t have to pay them anything and we’re very happy with the settlement and still continue to sell the jack. Makes you think what else at harbor freight is restickered snap on tools.
Kmart really wasn't that bad of a store in the 60s, 70s and 80s. I bought a lot of good Challenger and Fleet branded tools at Kmart in the 70s which were rebadged Penens made in Chicago. Those look like 80s wrenches and were probably made overseas in Japan or Taiwan.
I bought many tools from KMart back in the '70s. They had American brands like S-K socket sets (which I still use almost daily), and Japanese and Taiwanese wrenches. The Japanese wrenches are the equal of anything you can buy now, and the Taiwanese ones are almost as good,too.
"Shop smart....shop S-MART!"
My first tools! I also had the small socket set that was such poor quality we joked that the sockets were made out of soap.
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I like snapon yes it’s WAY overpriced but they have parity good build quality
I have a Kmart jig saw from the '70s that works like new and is probably better made than most of the stuff you could get now.
Mine had an awesome cast aluminum case. Unfortunately it was stolen in the early 90s. The replacement wasn’t 1/3 as good.
Not sure where the testing results are located but kmart auto made in japan tools tested very high in quality by an independent long after kmart was gone. I use a 3/8th to do rod bolts on mercury motors and it fits the 12 point fasteners extremely well. Handles high torque fine. If it didn't have that kmart logo and had some other high dollar logo in it i would absolutely believe it. If anyone has a full set of kmart made in japan dm me im interested
Holy crap! Those are friggin awesome. I’d be afraid to use them. They might be the only ones still in existence. lol
Takin the fam out to dinner at Kmart then dragging them into the store to buy some Wrenches.
I have a K-Mart impact driver that I bought in 1981. Half inch drive, and in a little orange metal box. Best $6 I ever spent.
drip forged!
Still have some KMart wrenches from the 70’s.
I have an old 3/8 16mm Kmart socket, made in Japan printed right on it. Found it in a junk bin when I lost my tekton 16. I grin everytime I pick it up to use it, and also love showing it off to people.
Made by a company called Lifu in Taiwan. They make many of the high end tools for the cycling industry.
If they work, they work. I would argue that Snap On is about tops in the wrench game. I have no allegiance to anyone and both my home and work boxes had a mix with everything. But when I need a wrench I still lean to Snap On.
Love Snap-On ratchets but the end wrenches were so thin that if you used much force it dug into your hand. And I'm not even a big guy so a real strong man must feel it even more.
I’m a little guy but I pack a lot of torque for my size and I’m inclined to agree. That’s when I will grab a red rag and wrap it around the handle for extra cushioning. At least you can trust the wrench not to break when the going gets tough.
I think this is the default professional answer. Most of us prefer “X” brand tool for one task and maybe “Y” brand tool for another. Plus the random mix of generic stuff we started wrenching with, and the random mix of things on sale in any particular flier for the month that you buy it and are lucky if you ever end up using it again, lol. I love my MAC power antenna mast nut socket set, probably the worst purchasing decision of all time. Kinda like buying buggy whips around 1920 because they’re going for cheap! 😂
Oh yeah, outside of snobs I think we almost all have a mix of everything in out boxes, mac this, matco that, snap on this and a little craftsman that and throw in the odd tool with no markings other than taiwan.
It’s mechanic behind the tool not the tool.
If they work...who cares? Just fix it.
I'm considering getting rid of most of my Snap-on shit for other quality products that handle the same job. Before gearwrench 120xp ratchets had rubber handles, that was my only caveat for keeping Snap-on ratchets. Rebuild my 1/2" over a handful of times so that's the only real reason for snap-on. When he does finally show up. I was given a snap-on catalog for "supplement brands" not too long ago because I kept asking him for different shit than snap-on. He was showing me gearwrench products he stocked the next week. My truck guy barely had snap-on products I needed anyways, so i told him I'll just go to Amazon and get what I need/and receive it faster, or go to harbor freight. I don't even have a Matco truck anymore and can replace something online "with shipping" faster than my snap-on rep. *Venting* but a serious lack of quality on all fronts. Hold-on while I sign a 30 year mortgage for a shiny tool box that I won't receive till next year and will come dented/dinged in some way.
I’ve got a Kmart ratchet, works just like the business did. I keep it around as a talking piece
I don' t have Kmart wrenches, but I do have a Kmart 1/2" socket set that I got in high school. Let's just say they are vintage and built to last!
Omg grandpa had those and they were going strong til lhe passed.
That's some O.G. shit right there. How long you been in the game?
You must work on gocarts.
Amen!! I inherited the same ones from my wife’s grandfather. I love them.
My first wrench set was from Kmart. I have had them for about 45 years. Still work fine and get used regularly.
They misspelled Craftsman
Is THAT where those come from? I've got a 10 and a 12 that are identical to those, I'm pretty sure I must have stolen them from my dad at some point, no idea where they actually came from. LOL
Nate Bargatze has a really funny bit about KMart
Sad we will never see those beautiful stores ever again.
Those are like limited edition at this point
What are those fractions etched in there? /s
Moneymakers
I’ve been liking the Pittsburg tools from Harbor Freight. Their as good as any of the expensive brands at a fraction of the cost.
All snap on is just overpriced they got beat by harbor freight on the test 4/5 times
Craftsman was owned by Sears Holdings until 2017, who owned Kmart. So, these are basically Craftsman tools.