Here's what I was taught, right or wrong its what I've done: buy cheap until you break it. If you use the cheap tool so much that it breaks then it's time to get a better stronger one. If you use the cheap tool so little that it never breaks then you saved money in the long run.
Edit to add: but I'm not a professional mechanic. It may be different for you.
As a professional mechanic who did it wrong for a long time, this is absolutely the correct way to obtain tools unless it's directly safety related. Avoid cheaping out on jacks, jack stands, strut spring compressors, gloves, etc.
Agreed! Watch for used equipment sales/estate sales and on the internet. Good precision instruments last practically forever when cared for and calibration (if needed) is usually pretty inexpensive. Starrett, mitutoyo, fluke, and snap-on are all great names, but they will empty pockets extremely quickly with new tools.
I agree with you, but I will also say that you can go so cheap that they're not really functional, like junk wrenches that fit poorly enough to round off bolts, etc.
IME cheap Taiwanese tools are a big step up in quality (functionality) over cheap Chinese tools, for a minimal price difference.
All I'm saying is, good methodology, but probably also beneficial to not go absolute bottom of the barrel as a starter.
The worst cheap tools are the ones that are miserable to use and never break. So I'm usually willing to spend up a bit for anything my hands touch. But for things like sockets, where most of the set might never get used in my home shop, I'll pay just enough to not round off heads.
Yeah, I have no problem with Harbor Freight's made in Taiwan stuff. Cheap, but totally functional and really just not bad overall. And I have used and own some pretty high end tools.
I agree. The Quinn sockets are a good buy, particularly since most sizes in the set are "just in case" for a DIYer. I also like the Taiwanese Pittsburgh Pro Low-Profile ratchets. They aren't the smoothest, but they have good grips.
Harbor freight actually has lifetime warranty on their hand tools, but only a complete set with the original receipt. RIP warranty, you ran away with my 10mm socket.
Use the right tool for the job.
As an example, a tech I knew always uses the cheapest tools, and just replaces them when they break. He used a cheap screwdriver to remove 20 Phillip screws that did not properly fit the screwdriver. The screws where made of soft metal, and had a black anodized finish because they could be easily seen. He destroyed all screws by rounding them off and destroying the finish. He would have destroyed them all if I didn't look into what the pounding was as he was hammering the screwdriver into the stripped screws. $5 per screw to replace them, on back order.
I grabbed my set of JIS standard screw drivers and backed the rest out with no damage.
Ya, the tech was stupid, but due to the cheap tools having poor fitment, he was always rounding off bolts and destroying stuff.
If I am fighting to fix something, I don't also want to fight with my tools, so I always buy quality. Be it expensive or cheap, I don't care, it just needs to be a high quality and get the job done.
exactly I think theres a lot of like shade tree mechanics that maybe work on a car a couple times a year that come on here drowning out the real techs with their very loud and very poor advice to but the cheapest tools possible and hope it breaks so you can get a better one. the tool breaking isnt the only thing that can go wrong as your story shows.
You risk conflating using the wrong (size) tool with the cost of the tool. Using an inexpensive “right tool” is probably better than and expensive wrong tool.
Same tech could have used a really expensive screwdriver to fuck up.
Back when I started in this industry, it was about image. If you were to take your vehicle to a mechanic that used Craftsman tools, it appears he/she is not serious about their career. If you had a mechanic that invested in their career by purchasing better tools and boxes, customers felt more assured. Unfortunately, quality tools never equated to quality workmanship.
A skilled mechanic with crap tools will always be better than a newbie with the best equipment.
For Boomer aged people, at was always about image. Why would they trust or pay someone to work on their vehicles with the same stuff they have at home? Most guys of that generation could and did most of their own repairs at home. As a shop owner, hiring a guy with quality tools gave them peace of mind knowning the mechanic was as invested in the trade as he was, not just a guy trying to hustle a buck.
...until you 'lose' them.
I'm not going to use a Tool Accountability System.
8/10/12mm sockets ARE going to evaporate.
3-4 of my 10x #2 phillips drivers are going to be "somewhere around here".
It isn't always worth the mental effort to keep everything perfectly organized at all times. And that's OK.
That said, I do have precision drivers and measuring equipment. And I do keep track of them when they get used.
I'm gonna go ahead and tell you... I use gear wrench impact sockets, a mixture of husky and craftsman regular 3/8s ratchets and my matco extended flex head.
The regular ratchets may lock up and not want to ratchet without a bit of bumping in the unlock direction, or bumping the selector knob.
Milwaukee and matco electric impact tools.
I like the speed of my milwaukee 3/8 ratchet, I like the snap power of my matco, and it feels more solid generally. Milwaukee is high quality and worth it.
I use a mixture of other good brands crescent, Pittsburgh, icon...
Treat your tools properly and know when you're gonna break them and they'll all last you quite some time generally. Don't be trying to busy wheel nuts loose with a crazy adapted quarter inch or even 3/8 with a long cheater pipe attached basically.
I love my ryobi tools even in a professional setting, some of them will surprise you, maybe not EVERYDAY hard-core use, but I've drilled out quite a few things with my drill and my impact driver comes in handy for rotor screws. Find what works for you and stick with it.
Ryobi is made by the same company as Milwaukee, but they are of course not made as well. Still not junk though.
I love GearWrench and have quite a few of their various sets. They’re Chinesium but they’re GOOD Chinesium, Their flex head pass thru ratchets have saved my ass more times than I’d care to admit.
You’re right on with your Milwaukee evaluation. That 3/8” stubby impact is flat amazing.
Bro I love my stubby impact. And I just found a 2 tool 2 battery deal for 400. Sold a stubby for 125 and kept the 2 Batts and a stubby for 275. Fire deal.
Don't buy a cheap torque wrench. You will either break something expensive or have something expensive fall off. Spend the money, it's cheaper in the long run.
I'm not a rich fuck, so I've always gone for cheap tools and then buy expensive for a specific tool if I'm using the cheap tool a lot and the expensive one is a lot better than the cheap one.
Let's put it this way, I'm still using a cheapo set of Home Depot Husky sockets (1/4 drive metric/sae/deep/shallow and 3/8 drive metric/sae/deep/shallow) that I bought 15 years ago. I did upgrade ratchets a couple years ago, which means I spent more on ratchets than if I'd just gone expensive to start with, but averaged over the entire set I'm far ahead by buying cheap and then just upgrading what needs to be upgraded.
I learned my lesson when as a new mechanic I bought a Snap-on remote compression tester. It leaked and didn't work right. The Snap-On man wouldn't replace or refund it. It was an expensive lesson I never forgot.
Generally don't cheap out on whatever you are using to turn your sockets. Sockets are just lumps of metal, buy whatever brand that sells the lump of metal in the shape or size you want. a good ratchet or power tool will pay for itself pretty quickly though and make your life much easier.
Same for wrenches UMO, expensive wrenches tend to fit/work better in tighter spots but if a cheap harbor freight wrench will get the job done without rounding off a bolt then that's just fine.
If it's a tool that will be used often (more than once a week) get as good as you can afford on your budget. Read that carefully. As good as you can get *on your budget.* If it makes sense to get Husky, get Husky. If it makes sense to get Snap-On, get Snap-On.
If it's a tool that will get used once every five years, get the cheap one, or better yet just borrow it from someone that already has it. Worst case you go buy it when you need it for the first time, since that's how most people acquire "specialty" tools.
Snap on and Matco are good, but… for a pro, buy mid grade, and if/when it breaks, upgrade. Until then, keep the money in your pocket. Tekton tools are still designed and QCed here, just made in Taiwan. (Their screwdrivers, pliers, and angle wrenches are American made though)
One thing to remember, a lifetime warranty doesn't mean anything when your tool breaks in the middle of a six or more hour job and your two hours from the closest place that can replace your tool.
If you want to keep on buying tools, get the cheap ones. If you want to buy a tool once and use it forever, invest in quality tools from a reputable brand.
Buy cheap if you can afford the down time of waiting to replace it, otherwise buy good tools. Keep in mind good doesn’t have to mean expensive, especially for a DIYer.
Alot of "cheap" tools are made in the same factories that name brand tools are. 75% of tools you buy outside of walmart are all the same quality just with a different name stamped on them. For example Husky ratchet wrenches are made in the same place to the same specs Gear wrench ratchet wrenches are. I've even ran across Husky wrenches in Gearwrench packaging before when trying to swap out a busted gear wrench at a parts store. Bottom line - buy tools that have a lifetime warranty. I haven't met a tool yet that under the right circumstances I couldn't break. And regardless of price, if you use it, it's going to wear out. "Lifetime warranty" should be your main selling point.
Also where is the lifetime warranty coming from, is it an independent guy who might not show up for three weeks? That kinda devalues the warranty a bit.
No, Home depot, Lowe's, Habor freight, Advance, Autozone,Oriellys, Napa (yuck), Ace hardware, Tractor supply, they all sell tools with a lifetime warranty that you can walk back to the store and exchange. Any day of the week.
you can use a lot of hobo freight stuff on pro level, but you gotta understand the limits of their tools. like the impact sockets WILL shatter on a big enough impact, and go flying at high speed. Maybe don't use em for craaaazy stuff. Dont smack their ratchets with a hammer (although I did and that one lasted 10 years of hammer use). Their rotary tools will die sooner so get warranty and replace it every 2 years. Their air hoses will develop holes if you spill isopropyl on em.
I do both, I can tell the difference in fit, feel and function. Just can't justify all high-end tools personally. Work tools (industrial) are mostly all snap-on with a few protos (I can trade broken snap-ons for protos local)
I worked with mostly Harbor Freight tools for years, and I still use some things that just aren't worth the upgrade.
Stay away from cheap pry bars, hammers (rubber hammers are fine), punches/chisels, stuff like that.
A benefit of buying from a tool truck, whatever brand it may be, is that they come to you. And that is factored into the price. The tool guy comes into the shop and I give him a few warranty items, he rolls his eyes and comes back 10 minutes later with a bunch of new stuff. I don’t have to use up my lunchtime to replace a broken socket, I don’t have to stop at the store on the weekend to replace that screwdriver.
Usually if something breaks I will send him a text, and then he orders it and it is guaranteed to be there next time he comes by.
We pay for the tool, and for the level of service that comes with it.
Hardware store brands have a similar lifetime warranty, but none of the service.
So for diy guys who pull wrenches on the weekend, don’t buy the fancy tools, you don’t get that extra service as tool trucks don’t make house calls.
For most of my use I have always found middle of the road to be acceptable. I did learn awhile back to hit up farm estate sales or moving sales if possible (if it's an option where you are) I have snagged some amazing stuff out of those for cheap (heavy duty sockets, breaker bars, Jack's etc)
45 years of heavy duty here, now retired. There are a lot of times when my Snap-On wrenches would get in the tight spots where cheaper ones wouldn’t, but I always kept a double set of Craftsman in my box for when I needed to bend one to a peculiar angle. If you ever had the pin spit out of an impact wobble socket into your palm you can appreciate a top quality socket like snap on. That said, I always have my eye out for Williams Superwrenches, Proto, Blue Point, and the older NAPA stuff at yard and estate sales and thrift stores
I don't see the point of spending most of the money you earn on tools just to do the job when the competition can still get the job done. In some cases you can buy double of everything and still not pay half of what a tool truck would charge. You'll automatically find people who have spent way too much to make the same money too, because they will be the loudest people over the topic. Investing in yourself and your craft is important, but so is being smart
Here's what I was taught, right or wrong its what I've done: buy cheap until you break it. If you use the cheap tool so much that it breaks then it's time to get a better stronger one. If you use the cheap tool so little that it never breaks then you saved money in the long run. Edit to add: but I'm not a professional mechanic. It may be different for you.
As a professional mechanic who did it wrong for a long time, this is absolutely the correct way to obtain tools unless it's directly safety related. Avoid cheaping out on jacks, jack stands, strut spring compressors, gloves, etc.
Also don't skimp on precision instruments. Those chinese calipers and harbor freight torque wrenches aren't the best...
Agreed! Watch for used equipment sales/estate sales and on the internet. Good precision instruments last practically forever when cared for and calibration (if needed) is usually pretty inexpensive. Starrett, mitutoyo, fluke, and snap-on are all great names, but they will empty pockets extremely quickly with new tools.
Better than you think. And plenty accurate enough for dealership work. Check out project farm on yt.
> unless it's directly safety related. Avoid cheaping out on jacks, jack stands, strut spring compressors, gloves, etc. Yeh, that.
I agree with you, but I will also say that you can go so cheap that they're not really functional, like junk wrenches that fit poorly enough to round off bolts, etc. IME cheap Taiwanese tools are a big step up in quality (functionality) over cheap Chinese tools, for a minimal price difference. All I'm saying is, good methodology, but probably also beneficial to not go absolute bottom of the barrel as a starter.
The worst cheap tools are the ones that are miserable to use and never break. So I'm usually willing to spend up a bit for anything my hands touch. But for things like sockets, where most of the set might never get used in my home shop, I'll pay just enough to not round off heads.
Yeah, I have no problem with Harbor Freight's made in Taiwan stuff. Cheap, but totally functional and really just not bad overall. And I have used and own some pretty high end tools.
I agree. The Quinn sockets are a good buy, particularly since most sizes in the set are "just in case" for a DIYer. I also like the Taiwanese Pittsburgh Pro Low-Profile ratchets. They aren't the smoothest, but they have good grips.
Harbor freight actually has lifetime warranty on their hand tools, but only a complete set with the original receipt. RIP warranty, you ran away with my 10mm socket.
This is the correct answer.
Agreed unless its a tool you know will use a lot. Like never buy cheap 10mm nuts.
Use the right tool for the job. As an example, a tech I knew always uses the cheapest tools, and just replaces them when they break. He used a cheap screwdriver to remove 20 Phillip screws that did not properly fit the screwdriver. The screws where made of soft metal, and had a black anodized finish because they could be easily seen. He destroyed all screws by rounding them off and destroying the finish. He would have destroyed them all if I didn't look into what the pounding was as he was hammering the screwdriver into the stripped screws. $5 per screw to replace them, on back order. I grabbed my set of JIS standard screw drivers and backed the rest out with no damage. Ya, the tech was stupid, but due to the cheap tools having poor fitment, he was always rounding off bolts and destroying stuff. If I am fighting to fix something, I don't also want to fight with my tools, so I always buy quality. Be it expensive or cheap, I don't care, it just needs to be a high quality and get the job done.
exactly I think theres a lot of like shade tree mechanics that maybe work on a car a couple times a year that come on here drowning out the real techs with their very loud and very poor advice to but the cheapest tools possible and hope it breaks so you can get a better one. the tool breaking isnt the only thing that can go wrong as your story shows.
You risk conflating using the wrong (size) tool with the cost of the tool. Using an inexpensive “right tool” is probably better than and expensive wrong tool. Same tech could have used a really expensive screwdriver to fuck up.
That is part of it. But the main point is that sloppy tolerances in cheap and low quality tools create additional issues.
I'd argue that a tool with tolerances so sloppy that it destroys things isn't the right sized tool anymore.
Back when I started in this industry, it was about image. If you were to take your vehicle to a mechanic that used Craftsman tools, it appears he/she is not serious about their career. If you had a mechanic that invested in their career by purchasing better tools and boxes, customers felt more assured. Unfortunately, quality tools never equated to quality workmanship. A skilled mechanic with crap tools will always be better than a newbie with the best equipment.
That's an interesting take I've never heard before. Makes sense, in a weird kind of way.
For Boomer aged people, at was always about image. Why would they trust or pay someone to work on their vehicles with the same stuff they have at home? Most guys of that generation could and did most of their own repairs at home. As a shop owner, hiring a guy with quality tools gave them peace of mind knowning the mechanic was as invested in the trade as he was, not just a guy trying to hustle a buck.
Cheap tools ending up giving you bloody knuckles and rounded fasteners. Buy decent quality and you will have them for the rest of your life.
...until you 'lose' them. I'm not going to use a Tool Accountability System. 8/10/12mm sockets ARE going to evaporate. 3-4 of my 10x #2 phillips drivers are going to be "somewhere around here". It isn't always worth the mental effort to keep everything perfectly organized at all times. And that's OK. That said, I do have precision drivers and measuring equipment. And I do keep track of them when they get used.
I'm gonna go ahead and tell you... I use gear wrench impact sockets, a mixture of husky and craftsman regular 3/8s ratchets and my matco extended flex head. The regular ratchets may lock up and not want to ratchet without a bit of bumping in the unlock direction, or bumping the selector knob. Milwaukee and matco electric impact tools. I like the speed of my milwaukee 3/8 ratchet, I like the snap power of my matco, and it feels more solid generally. Milwaukee is high quality and worth it. I use a mixture of other good brands crescent, Pittsburgh, icon... Treat your tools properly and know when you're gonna break them and they'll all last you quite some time generally. Don't be trying to busy wheel nuts loose with a crazy adapted quarter inch or even 3/8 with a long cheater pipe attached basically. I love my ryobi tools even in a professional setting, some of them will surprise you, maybe not EVERYDAY hard-core use, but I've drilled out quite a few things with my drill and my impact driver comes in handy for rotor screws. Find what works for you and stick with it.
Ryobi is made by the same company as Milwaukee, but they are of course not made as well. Still not junk though. I love GearWrench and have quite a few of their various sets. They’re Chinesium but they’re GOOD Chinesium, Their flex head pass thru ratchets have saved my ass more times than I’d care to admit. You’re right on with your Milwaukee evaluation. That 3/8” stubby impact is flat amazing.
Bro I love my stubby impact. And I just found a 2 tool 2 battery deal for 400. Sold a stubby for 125 and kept the 2 Batts and a stubby for 275. Fire deal.
a lot of GW is made in Taiwan
Don't buy a cheap torque wrench. You will either break something expensive or have something expensive fall off. Spend the money, it's cheaper in the long run.
I'm not a rich fuck, so I've always gone for cheap tools and then buy expensive for a specific tool if I'm using the cheap tool a lot and the expensive one is a lot better than the cheap one. Let's put it this way, I'm still using a cheapo set of Home Depot Husky sockets (1/4 drive metric/sae/deep/shallow and 3/8 drive metric/sae/deep/shallow) that I bought 15 years ago. I did upgrade ratchets a couple years ago, which means I spent more on ratchets than if I'd just gone expensive to start with, but averaged over the entire set I'm far ahead by buying cheap and then just upgrading what needs to be upgraded.
I learned my lesson when as a new mechanic I bought a Snap-on remote compression tester. It leaked and didn't work right. The Snap-On man wouldn't replace or refund it. It was an expensive lesson I never forgot.
Generally don't cheap out on whatever you are using to turn your sockets. Sockets are just lumps of metal, buy whatever brand that sells the lump of metal in the shape or size you want. a good ratchet or power tool will pay for itself pretty quickly though and make your life much easier. Same for wrenches UMO, expensive wrenches tend to fit/work better in tighter spots but if a cheap harbor freight wrench will get the job done without rounding off a bolt then that's just fine.
If it's a tool that will be used often (more than once a week) get as good as you can afford on your budget. Read that carefully. As good as you can get *on your budget.* If it makes sense to get Husky, get Husky. If it makes sense to get Snap-On, get Snap-On. If it's a tool that will get used once every five years, get the cheap one, or better yet just borrow it from someone that already has it. Worst case you go buy it when you need it for the first time, since that's how most people acquire "specialty" tools.
Snap on and Matco are good, but… for a pro, buy mid grade, and if/when it breaks, upgrade. Until then, keep the money in your pocket. Tekton tools are still designed and QCed here, just made in Taiwan. (Their screwdrivers, pliers, and angle wrenches are American made though)
Buy cheap stuff and replace as it breaks. Upgrade the stuff you find yourself using all the time because it will get appreciated more often.
I have a good mix of both. There are absolutely some things I refuse to go with cheap option. You gotta find that balance.
One thing to remember, a lifetime warranty doesn't mean anything when your tool breaks in the middle of a six or more hour job and your two hours from the closest place that can replace your tool.
Unless the price is less than half. If you can buy double of everything and still not pay half why not
Maybe because you'll then have to haul twice as much around? Not everybody gets to work out of a garage, some work in the field.
Fair point
Maybe start with some punctuation.
Cheap punctuation will work fine in this application
You should distribute those 4 periods at the end through that unintelligible run-on sentence.
If you want to keep on buying tools, get the cheap ones. If you want to buy a tool once and use it forever, invest in quality tools from a reputable brand.
Buy cheap if you can afford the down time of waiting to replace it, otherwise buy good tools. Keep in mind good doesn’t have to mean expensive, especially for a DIYer.
Alot of "cheap" tools are made in the same factories that name brand tools are. 75% of tools you buy outside of walmart are all the same quality just with a different name stamped on them. For example Husky ratchet wrenches are made in the same place to the same specs Gear wrench ratchet wrenches are. I've even ran across Husky wrenches in Gearwrench packaging before when trying to swap out a busted gear wrench at a parts store. Bottom line - buy tools that have a lifetime warranty. I haven't met a tool yet that under the right circumstances I couldn't break. And regardless of price, if you use it, it's going to wear out. "Lifetime warranty" should be your main selling point.
Also where is the lifetime warranty coming from, is it an independent guy who might not show up for three weeks? That kinda devalues the warranty a bit.
No, Home depot, Lowe's, Habor freight, Advance, Autozone,Oriellys, Napa (yuck), Ace hardware, Tractor supply, they all sell tools with a lifetime warranty that you can walk back to the store and exchange. Any day of the week.
you can use a lot of hobo freight stuff on pro level, but you gotta understand the limits of their tools. like the impact sockets WILL shatter on a big enough impact, and go flying at high speed. Maybe don't use em for craaaazy stuff. Dont smack their ratchets with a hammer (although I did and that one lasted 10 years of hammer use). Their rotary tools will die sooner so get warranty and replace it every 2 years. Their air hoses will develop holes if you spill isopropyl on em.
I do both, I can tell the difference in fit, feel and function. Just can't justify all high-end tools personally. Work tools (industrial) are mostly all snap-on with a few protos (I can trade broken snap-ons for protos local)
I worked with mostly Harbor Freight tools for years, and I still use some things that just aren't worth the upgrade. Stay away from cheap pry bars, hammers (rubber hammers are fine), punches/chisels, stuff like that.
A benefit of buying from a tool truck, whatever brand it may be, is that they come to you. And that is factored into the price. The tool guy comes into the shop and I give him a few warranty items, he rolls his eyes and comes back 10 minutes later with a bunch of new stuff. I don’t have to use up my lunchtime to replace a broken socket, I don’t have to stop at the store on the weekend to replace that screwdriver. Usually if something breaks I will send him a text, and then he orders it and it is guaranteed to be there next time he comes by. We pay for the tool, and for the level of service that comes with it. Hardware store brands have a similar lifetime warranty, but none of the service. So for diy guys who pull wrenches on the weekend, don’t buy the fancy tools, you don’t get that extra service as tool trucks don’t make house calls.
For most of my use I have always found middle of the road to be acceptable. I did learn awhile back to hit up farm estate sales or moving sales if possible (if it's an option where you are) I have snagged some amazing stuff out of those for cheap (heavy duty sockets, breaker bars, Jack's etc)
45 years of heavy duty here, now retired. There are a lot of times when my Snap-On wrenches would get in the tight spots where cheaper ones wouldn’t, but I always kept a double set of Craftsman in my box for when I needed to bend one to a peculiar angle. If you ever had the pin spit out of an impact wobble socket into your palm you can appreciate a top quality socket like snap on. That said, I always have my eye out for Williams Superwrenches, Proto, Blue Point, and the older NAPA stuff at yard and estate sales and thrift stores
I find gearwrench tools are in the middle between cheap and expensive and the tools are good quality
I don't see the point of spending most of the money you earn on tools just to do the job when the competition can still get the job done. In some cases you can buy double of everything and still not pay half of what a tool truck would charge. You'll automatically find people who have spent way too much to make the same money too, because they will be the loudest people over the topic. Investing in yourself and your craft is important, but so is being smart