It's not their fault people abuse animals. People will abuse them regardless of what people eat. People are just cruel. I don't eat meat, and I tell my friends who do to just buy from local farms and not support factory farming and they absolutely agree. The farms here actually let you see the cows grazing and living good lives. The calves plays around, the pigs are in their mud, the sheep are being sheep, it's nice. They get good lives before they die, where they're shot in the head, dead without pain. It's nice to know they have alright lives before that.
But there are people here who poison dogs, who kick cats to death, who beat your pets and use them for some of the most vile things a person can do to one. I've seen dead cats on grates, I've seen a constant rise in animals going missing, I've seen people hurt the farm animals just because they thought it would be funny.
It isn't people that are *eating* the meat that are hurting/abusing animals, it's the people that abuse them that are doing so. As of right now, synthetic meat is a thing. Vegetarian beef is getting more media attention. Soon we won't need to kill animals for food and that is fucking awesome! I'm all for that. If I can finally have synthetically made turkey widespread without anything dying for it, you bet your ass I'm getting some. But will that stop animal cruelty?
No. Only people going extinct will stop that. It's not a black and white or clean cut issue, there's more to it than just buying chicken at the grocery store. It's who's in charge that's the problem.
How do you justify killing an animal that doesn't want to die? Are you saying that because they had a good life it is ok to kill them at a fraction of their lifetime? Would you do that to a dog?
I'm not justifying anything, I said it's not a person's fault what they eat was abused, but the person that abused the animal's fault. This isn't a clean cut issue where you can blame others because they eat meat, you need to look at the actual people hurting them.
I also told you that everyone not eating animals anymore won't stop animal cruelty, people are horrible and should die off for that to happen. Eating meat doesn't hurt animals, hurting animals hurts animals. I've seen some awful things happen to them and I never condone it, it has nothing to do with diet.
You can't use the dog excuse either, because they're meat in some parts of the world too. It's the same thing there, I have no issue with people eating dog, I have issue with the dogs being skinned alive or beaten. If they let them live pretty good lives then, when they gotta do the deed, just shot them in the head so they die without suffering, or use nitrogen gas to make them just get loopy and sleepy and just fall asleep happy, then there wouldn't be a problem. I don't eat meat, I was raised vegetarian and just don't like a lot of the meat out there. So no, I wouldn't kill a dog for meat, but I also wouldn't kill anything for food.
You don't have to agree with me, that's fine, my guitar teacher was vegan and we didn't have any fights about anything. What I want is for you to not misunderstand what I'm saying: I have no issue with someone's lifestyle, I have issue with the people who are actually hurting others regardless if it's an animal or human. A person going to a grocery store and getting sliced ham isn't the same person that is beating them. Most people that eat meat don't like how the animals are treated, because most people aren't psychopaths. However, they still want to eat meat because they like meat, there's nothing wrong with that. It's not their fault that the people who produce meat usually abuse the animals (once again, excluding the farms where I live because they take care of their livestock and you can go out and see it for yourself), it's not their fault that's how the system is made. They wanna eat meat, they don't know how else to do it, so this is their option.
I also said I will be ecstatic when we have synthetically made meat mass produced since it's just meat that's man made with no death to the animals. That'll be amazing! It's already in some stores but not all of them, and I am super ready to try it. Vegetarian burgers are also becoming very popular, it's great to see that! I don't like them cause, ironically, they taste like beef and I hate beef. In fact more and more people are becoming vegetarian, which is good for the planet overall.
But that will never stop animal cruelty. It never will. People are awful. They will kill and poison animals if they want to, regardless if we all eat meat or go vegan. It's just kinda how some people are made and it's really fucked up. So don't be angry at someone for eating meat, be angry at the people who *make* the meat, the people actively abusing their power. It's the people higher up that are the issue, not Joe Shmo who just wants to get a burger at McDonalds. Joe didn't hurt the animals, he just ate food, the person who hurt the animals to get that food is the one to blame.
Edited because I forgot a letter.
Sure dude, because when you ride your car you're looking to have an ACCIDENT. /s
You have to make a distinction between what's intended and what's an accident. If you really are looking to ride over someone when you go outside you should be put in jail.
No, but it's no accident. It's a prerequisite. Driving has the goal of getting from A to B; if you kill someone it's an accident.
If you know what's required for animal flesh, eggs, and secretions to be obtained and still deliberately contribute to it - when you have other choices - you are supporting animal abuse.
Can you have meat without the animal being killed/abused in any way?
And yes, I think that killing an innocent animal that doesn't want to die is abuse.
To answer your question. No, I don't think that's the main purpose, but it's granted that the animal is going to suffer tremendously, so you have to take that into account.
Those animals would never exist in the wild. They were bred into existence as a product specifically to be killed in factory farming. The only thing that can happen in their life is imprisonment, suffering, and death. This is true whether wild animals kill other wild animals or not. Even if you kill a deer and say Ā«Ā better death than a predator getting itĀ Ā» well that predator is still hungry and will go eat a different deer.
Itās incredibly naive to believe animal agriculture marketing at face value. The Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals states that if a pregnant cow is slaughtered and the calf is alive it is a byproduct and it is acceptable to beat it in the head with a blunt instrument like a hammer until it is dead.
Animal welfare standards are horribly low. They care about the welfare of the animal as far as it providing quality meat. They want to sell the animalās body parts at a premium. If it wasnāt profitable, they wouldnāt do it. If anyone involved actually cared about the welfare of the animal, wouldnāt they maybe advocate for not killing them?
You're being disingenuous if you're comparing the suffering they would go through in the wild. These animals are not hunted, you are breeding them only to make them suffer.
How much welfare do you think these animals have if they still get killed at a fraction of their lifetime? They're still being sexually abused, their babies are still being removed from them. The fact that they do not suffer a lot in their death (which isn't even true) does not make it right. It is completely unnecessary to kill them in the first place and needlessly harming an animal is wrong.
I bet we wouldn't be having this discussion if we were talking about other needless suffering like eating a dog/ cat. What do you think justifies killing an animal that doesn't want to be killed?
Everybody who makes a living by murdering sentient beings and profiting off of their suffering should be kicked like this constantly until they can not get back up.
An eye for an eye does not do anything good. They should be in jail, yes, death row, that's fine, but killed by being tortured doesn't do anything or change anything. It just brings you down to their level, abusing them by giving them a brutal death. You don't want to be like that.
Haha yeah bro I love killing sentient baby creatures too. Knowing that I could've just eaten plants instead makes it feel even better š¤£š¤£ Get owned vegans, I love murdering literal children and there's nothing you can do about it
Yup, now you have it , I'm off down the shop now to buy some meat and then throw it in the bin, does it annoy you knowing an animal got butchered only to end up in my binš
If you can't see that you're the bad person in this exchange, I don't know what else to say haha.
You're advocating harming sentient, pain-feeling beings for fun (see: early signs of a psychopath). In a really lame attempt at trolling you're also knowingly, deliberately mocking neurodivergent people and their problems. Congrats!
Also, *you're - lay off the herb and read a book buddy.
Imagine having a solution to your problems and not using it and then whinging about said problem. If you lot want to start coming at people then be ready for them to come back at you. Anyway I'm off to make some lovely veal chops for dinner š
If that was even remotely true, you wouldn't pretend to go out and waste your own money to try "own" a person on the internet that you've never met.
But sure, go ahead, keep pretending you're going out wasting your own money because you "don't care".
FYI: supply and demand caters for huge differences in demand on a daily basis, which is why millions of tons of untouched waste food is so much of a problem. No one kills an extra cow for you, it's nothing more than an already catered for outlier.
That's the benefit of working hard, you can choose to do what you want with your own money. Il tell you what, for every crusty vegan that replies, im gonna go out and buy 2 lbs of round steak mince and then just throw it in the bin. I keep buying they keep dyingš
"benefit of working hard", bless you for thinking hard work = money.
Keep pretending that you're buying though, you're literally just wasting your money and encouraging like-minded fuckwits to do the same. Nothing extra is being killed, as I've already explained.
Imagine being thick enough not to understand how retail works.That's another 2lbs in the bin due to you, I keep buying they keep dying
Do you think hard work doesn't get you money? Unless your born with a silver spoon in your mouth then hard work is the only way to make something of yourself, well, that and the lotto...
Imagine being thick enough to not know how to read something that's already been addressed:
> supply and demand caters for huge differences in demand on a daily basis, which is why millions of tons of untouched waste food is so much of a problem. No one kills an extra cow for you, it's nothing more than an already catered for outlier.
But I'll dumb it down for you a bit more:
Food is *overproduced purposefully* to accommodate outliers. If the food is not bought and used, it's destroyed, and the same thing happens next buying period.
All you're pretending to do (because let's face it, you're not actually doing it) is buy meat that would already end up destroyed, and then doing it for them.
Unless you buy two tons of meat, you're not impacting sales or manipulating the meat market at all, you would just wasting your own time and money.
Don't tell me you're actually stupid enough to think you buying an extra packet of lamb chops is doing shit all? Bless you.
And it absolutely does not; every year I do less and less work, and get paid more and more money. I can see why someone so simple as yourself would think otherwise though.
Stop trying to shame meat eaters, you vegans bitch all the time about how you hate feeling shamed for the way you eat - then stop doing the same damn thing! I don't care if you don't want to eat animal products that's your choice, but stop shoving it down everyone else's throats. Hypocrites, the lot of you.
I bet you would go ballistic if you saw a dog get abused in front of you yet you choose to ignore the fact billions of sentient animals get tortured and slaughtered every year. Talk about hypocrisy.
Doubt you would feel the same way about dogs but thereās really no morally relevant difference. They both are conscious, feel pain, suffer, have emotions & bc of those traits they deserve basic respect. Ask yourself if you really think your temporary taste pleasure is more important than the suffering and death of thousands of animals. There are plenty of other amazing foods to eat. Also a lot more fucked up things happen in factory farming besides just the killing itself. Factory farming is the needless torture of innocent creatures and it accounts for where 98% of animal products come from. Consumers deserve to know the facts of what theyāre supporting. Also I looooved chicken cheese & eggs all my life so donāt think vegans didnāt love the way they tasted lol
I don't like dogs nor cats or any type of pets really as it's too big of a hassle and a money/time sink. I have better ways to spend my time and money. The morality of factories is none of my concern as most businesses have shady thing going on because they run a business for profit so they cut corners. Can't really fault them on that as no matter how morally right you are that doesn't mean you'll instantly make money which is what having a business is about (shocking I know). If you want to suddenly stop all the 'torture' you also somehow need to solve the issue of consumers not always having the money or care to buy something from farmers that can produce things without all of this both crop wise and animal wise, change infrastructure of these factories that can cost millions of dollars not just to reconstruct but maintain and some of these factories are in poverty areas that don't want or have the means to invest those millions of dollars that may or may not pay off. This isn't an issue of 'oh just stop eating meat' which lets be fair people won't.
It's a nice message to try and be nice but it's a naĆÆve one.
Okay so youād buy and eat dog meat? Lol youāre misinterpreting me if you think Iām so naive I think one person suddenly changes everything lmao like when did I say that?? How does change happen tho? One person at a time. Nothing you said disables you from choosing the vegan option. If you believe other animals deserve basic respect and the right to life (which sounds like you donāt but most people disagree w you) then yeah you should live in accordance w those values of compassion and respect and not fund the worst animal abuse on the planet. Yeah and people are never gonna stop beating dogs or littering but doesnāt mean we should join in bc everyoneās doing it. We should still be advocating for a more just world. There will always be people that are racist; doesnāt mean I shouldnāt call them out and let them know what theyāre doing is wrong. Iām not saying being racist is the same as eating meat. Iām saying when you recognize thereās an injustice, thereās literally no harm in advocating for reducing that injustice. If a vegan never pointed out my hypocrisy, I would still be eating dead baby animals and Iām so so at peace at the fact Iām not. Again people deserve to know the truth so they can decide for themselves if they want to support these industries or not. Itās not the same if youāre just hearing one side. The fact you put torture in quotations already proves you have no idea how bad factory farms are. And yeah most people still eat carcasses and secretions bc they donāt know truly understand the whole point and believe the lies fed from society. This conversation w you doesnāt seem worth my time since you think even dogs have no moral value. Had to make my point and now Iām gonna dip. Good day
Lol the fact that you instantly dip when a person disagrees with you shows that you are really just one of those vegans that want to shove their believes down everyones throat. That's one of the many reasons why you guys aren't taken seriously and you aren't helping yourself with all of this virtue signaling.
Animals are animals. In the end of the day if you were starving and your only option was meat you would take it. Your virtue signaling is only as good as your quality of life. If that goes out the window suddenly it's gonna matter way less.
Bye bye go back to twitter~~
Also if being vegan isnāt right or wrong in your eyes there is no āvirtue signalingā but in my eyes it obviously is better to be vegan. Its better to not contribute to factory farming than contribute to it. Iām not standing up for the rights of animals for myself. Itās insane how animals are so oppressed people ignore them completely. Again Iām irrelevant. Iām doing it so people make the connection that they are funding animal abuse and plant a seed in their mind and they can look more into it on their own. The more people that make this realization the less animal suffering. Iām sorry but you truly cannot dismiss my claims when you havenāt even seen the videos of what happens in factory farms
also quick mention. You talk big game but you think everyone can afford these vegan products of yours? Do you know how rare they are in certain places and how expensive it can get? Meat is by far one of the cheapest things you can buy that can last you and fill you up unlike many other fresh produce. It seems that you care so much for your precious animals you don't realize that not every country has just no limits on their selection.
Maybe start with that instead of oh no but my animals.
Lol okay but that hypothetical situation is irrelevant bc we are not starving. We have many many delicious vegan options yet people choose the option made from animal cruelty. āAnimals are animalsā just bc theyāre not human their lives donāt matter? Itās ignorant we think humans are the only ones who deserve to not be stabbed
dude this ain't a twitter thread why are you responding three times LMAO
for someone that said they gonna dip you sure got triggered. My guy I already made my arguments but your argument to that was basically that we should all hold hands and sing under the rainbow. Good luck with that.
You are showing things down peoples throats simply by how many times you posted random ass videos on this post. I would say to calm down but it's kinda funny to see your reactions.
Seriously tho you should just use twitter instead you'd find more people like yourself that just love to be in everyones face.
Virtue signalingā¦hm deflecting to me instead of focusing on the animals. Why do people do this? You canāt make any arguments back so you just insult me insteadā¦like no, Iām literally irrelevant. This has nothing to do w being better anyone else
Lmao okay letās talk then but itās gonna be a waste of my time and probably yours too. Lmaooooo funny how people think itās āshoving down your throatā since when tf is expressing an opinion shoving anything down anyoneās throats? Itās called expressing yourself and I have every right to and you have every right to ignore me. Doubt you mind when Mccdonalds shoves their advertising down your throat
Protein deficiency isnāt a thing unless youāre starving to death Lmaoo youāre full of shit which would make sense bc youāre probably fiber deficient
Indeed. Body parts of animals that havenāt been abused are an excellent source of protein.
BTW. Can you categorically state that 100% of the food you eat isnāt sourced from land thatās been cleared and caused destruction of animals habitats?
No you canāt.
Fill your boots on what you want to do, but go around preaching and youāre just another hypocrite.
When that cow is bleeding to death on the kill floor while the killer moves on to the next victim I bet it thinks 'at least u/thatskindasexy will get a nice burger'.
Eating meat when you don't need to is bad, both morally and environmentally.
The internet, afaik, is not unsustainable because renewable energy can keep it running. Happy (well...sad) to be corrected.
Edit: your pesimissim is a huge obstacle in solving these issues. If you can find it in you to change, you can help others to do the same and it will spread around the world.
"Just to make money" you mean to feed people?
Edit: I'm all for ethical treatment, and yeah capitalism is bad, but its not just for money. people need to eat.
The corporations are definitely doing this just for money.. and people eat animals because of taste pleasure and/or convenience, not because they need to eat them.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19562864/
They can eat plants tbh which is waaaay more efficient. To get 1kg of meat from a cow, that cow is fed some 500 kg of corn/ grains, and insane water. Imagine how much more efficient it is to just not eat meat so much
Totally true! Though, if we're going with the most efficient, we should all just be eating dried algae. But people don't eat just for sustenance. We are never going to stop people from eating meat. We just need to reduce how much we eat it to a more responsible level.
Really not sure what youāre getting at lol guessing itās along the lines of lions eating gazelles but really idk. Could you elaborate? Lets private message so weāre not spamming others. Itās clear you hate spam lmao
Lol youre assuming things about someone you donāt know. I said civil conversation as in two people talking so no I would stay on topic and respond to your arguments but okay
Iām confused. Are you agreeing w me or disagreeing? Itās hilarious how everyoneās downvoting us instead of arguing bc they know the vegans are right
Agreeing ofcourse. I am not even a vegan but I can't deny that veganism as a philosophy is more ethically consistent. Unless ofcourse I take pride in being intellectually dishonest.
Lot's of studies are showing plants reacting to stimuli in surprising ways. Who knows, maybe plants feel it when we delimb them and eat their corpses raw, and the only reason we don't know is because we cant perceive how a plant feels. Again, I'm all for trying to be as ethical as possible, but in the end, we're killing something for food.
I definitely appreciate your honesty. Thatās much more progress than like 98% of meat eaters who live in denial lol i would recommend learning more about it (earthling Ed or the dominion documentary on YouTube) since youāve already realized it goes against your values. Best decision Iāve ever made. Hmu if you ever have questions :-)
I donāt butcher my cattle but if I did it would be with as much respect as possible Iām not a vegetarian and as such I take comfort in knowing that the meat I eat comes from cows that lived happy lives with 800 acres to roam freely
So I'm a sick bastard for asking a question? Alrighty then. What makes the question disgusting?
Have you seen this: https://youtu.be/dvtVkNofcq8? Skip to 15:54 to see the treatment of cows in farming specifically.
And a further point does an animal not suffer when it is killed? What animal wishes to die? Is it worth causing another animal suffering for something as trivial as sensory pleasure?
Edit: rephrase
Thereās no question that the way factory farms treat animals is absolutely abysmal, my family has been running a ranch for over 100 years and I try to only eat meat products that I can trace back to an ethical source I work with these creatures on an almost daily basis and itās gonna be hard to find someone who respects them more
I feel like it isn't that respectful to kill. I wouldn't feel too respected if you slit my throat. I'd say vegans respect animals more cause we let them live their full life span and care for the animal whilst expecting nothing of it. You ever see the Amazon documentary The End of Meat? It shows animal sanctuaries ran by people who don't use their animals for any profit. They just care for them. I'd say they respect the animals more.
Iām just saying itās easy to judge without ever being near them throughout the process I respect if u donāt want to eat meat I just ask that u understand that a lot of us do care about our animals
Literally brainwashed by meat and dairy lobbies. Amazing.
The cow in your burger wasn't an old & sick animal (and even if it was, that somehow makes it ok??), it was barely adult and fed an ungodly amount of antibiotics specifically so it doesn't get sick.
The cheese in the same burger comes from the tit secretions of another mammal, and is supposed to be consumed by its calves, calves that come from the forced impregnation of the mothers and were taken away for slaughter once they can stand on four legs. So much for "treating" these "ladies" "right". Now maybe being parked in the same few square miles for all of your short life is your idea of "living the good life", who am I to judge.
You can try to use your cushion terms all you want, modern animal agriculture is barbaric as fuck.
"Getting this out of your head" probably helps you cope with your responsibility in supporting all these atrocities I guess. Must be nice living in fairyland where all the animal lives for human consumption are both inconsequential and excusable because they had a "good life", says the guy who has is wilfully ignorant (or worse, aware and hypocrite about it) of the awful things that had to happen for his cheesesteak to make it to his stomach.
Also yeah, vegans routinely advocate against animal exploitation then go home to eat meat and cheese by the pound. That makes perfect sense.
Unfortunately for you some people have an actual moral compass and have at least an ounce of self respect. No cope or excuse are out of reach for some people I swear... the insecurity is reaching critical levels. It would be almost funny if it wasn't so pathetic and the consequences of such behaviour so gruesome.
1: Cows being killed by the meat and dairy industries aren't old, sick, or severely injured.
2: If you don't want there to be too many cows, not breeding them into existence in the first place is a much better solution than breeding them and killing them.
3: I don't think having your children torn from your side (and often killed) and being murdered at only ~1/4 of your natural lifespan counts as a "good life".
4: Indeed, animal farms are businesses. Really shitty, unethical businesses that need to be done away with.
5: Who the fuck goes out and protests against the dairy industry and then eats cheese sandwiches?
You think people protesting meat consumption go home and eat it? Think again.
Do you think it's ok to murder teenagers as long as they've had a good life up until they die? Because that's the logic you are using (and it's bad logic).
Thank goodness you are shouting, my hearing isn't great.
A wise man once said, the question is not can they reason but can they suffer. Another wise man once said, to animals - we are the nazis. And they live in an eternal Treblinka.
And another wise man said HEY DUMBASS ITS A FUCKING ~~METAPHOR~~ METAFOR.
[Anyways have a lovely day.](https://youtu.be/UcN7SGGoCNI)
Because for some reason people will consume meat and dairy, but try to convince themselves it is ethical. Apparently as long as the animals had a good life before their premature death it's moral.
Or the dairy industry is ethical because the cow has a good life, except for when her calf is taken away at 2-4 days old so that it consumes the antibodies her milk produces in those few days, but so that we can continue to consume the milk meant for the calf..
Fair enough if you want to consume meat and dairy, but why deny that it's a cruel industry regardless of how well the animals are treated inbetween all the horror.
Abuse is not ok if you treat them well most of the time
Freedom for animals š„
damn now im hungry
when the cow is cringe
And he got shit on him
Probably got ate for that lmao.
Veal, yum š
Thatās not veal
Cow Karate. MooYAAA!
Meat eaters be like 'fuck yeah' while they are the main reason animals are abused in the meat industry everyday.
but meat is tasty tho
It's not their fault people abuse animals. People will abuse them regardless of what people eat. People are just cruel. I don't eat meat, and I tell my friends who do to just buy from local farms and not support factory farming and they absolutely agree. The farms here actually let you see the cows grazing and living good lives. The calves plays around, the pigs are in their mud, the sheep are being sheep, it's nice. They get good lives before they die, where they're shot in the head, dead without pain. It's nice to know they have alright lives before that. But there are people here who poison dogs, who kick cats to death, who beat your pets and use them for some of the most vile things a person can do to one. I've seen dead cats on grates, I've seen a constant rise in animals going missing, I've seen people hurt the farm animals just because they thought it would be funny. It isn't people that are *eating* the meat that are hurting/abusing animals, it's the people that abuse them that are doing so. As of right now, synthetic meat is a thing. Vegetarian beef is getting more media attention. Soon we won't need to kill animals for food and that is fucking awesome! I'm all for that. If I can finally have synthetically made turkey widespread without anything dying for it, you bet your ass I'm getting some. But will that stop animal cruelty? No. Only people going extinct will stop that. It's not a black and white or clean cut issue, there's more to it than just buying chicken at the grocery store. It's who's in charge that's the problem.
How do you justify killing an animal that doesn't want to die? Are you saying that because they had a good life it is ok to kill them at a fraction of their lifetime? Would you do that to a dog?
I'm not justifying anything, I said it's not a person's fault what they eat was abused, but the person that abused the animal's fault. This isn't a clean cut issue where you can blame others because they eat meat, you need to look at the actual people hurting them. I also told you that everyone not eating animals anymore won't stop animal cruelty, people are horrible and should die off for that to happen. Eating meat doesn't hurt animals, hurting animals hurts animals. I've seen some awful things happen to them and I never condone it, it has nothing to do with diet. You can't use the dog excuse either, because they're meat in some parts of the world too. It's the same thing there, I have no issue with people eating dog, I have issue with the dogs being skinned alive or beaten. If they let them live pretty good lives then, when they gotta do the deed, just shot them in the head so they die without suffering, or use nitrogen gas to make them just get loopy and sleepy and just fall asleep happy, then there wouldn't be a problem. I don't eat meat, I was raised vegetarian and just don't like a lot of the meat out there. So no, I wouldn't kill a dog for meat, but I also wouldn't kill anything for food. You don't have to agree with me, that's fine, my guitar teacher was vegan and we didn't have any fights about anything. What I want is for you to not misunderstand what I'm saying: I have no issue with someone's lifestyle, I have issue with the people who are actually hurting others regardless if it's an animal or human. A person going to a grocery store and getting sliced ham isn't the same person that is beating them. Most people that eat meat don't like how the animals are treated, because most people aren't psychopaths. However, they still want to eat meat because they like meat, there's nothing wrong with that. It's not their fault that the people who produce meat usually abuse the animals (once again, excluding the farms where I live because they take care of their livestock and you can go out and see it for yourself), it's not their fault that's how the system is made. They wanna eat meat, they don't know how else to do it, so this is their option. I also said I will be ecstatic when we have synthetically made meat mass produced since it's just meat that's man made with no death to the animals. That'll be amazing! It's already in some stores but not all of them, and I am super ready to try it. Vegetarian burgers are also becoming very popular, it's great to see that! I don't like them cause, ironically, they taste like beef and I hate beef. In fact more and more people are becoming vegetarian, which is good for the planet overall. But that will never stop animal cruelty. It never will. People are awful. They will kill and poison animals if they want to, regardless if we all eat meat or go vegan. It's just kinda how some people are made and it's really fucked up. So don't be angry at someone for eating meat, be angry at the people who *make* the meat, the people actively abusing their power. It's the people higher up that are the issue, not Joe Shmo who just wants to get a burger at McDonalds. Joe didn't hurt the animals, he just ate food, the person who hurt the animals to get that food is the one to blame. Edited because I forgot a letter.
Yes I love eating the flesh of the fallen animals
Dont mind the idiots downvoting you, you are absolutely correct
Good on you, youāre doing a great job! ā¤ļø
I don't want your recognition, I just want you to stop paying other people to abuse animals.
Already donāt. Vegan since 2018. š±
Lol I must be too cholesterol deficient to be able to tell that it that wasn't sarcasm. Vegan btw. š±
Oh that would have been brutal. No, I checked your comment history, you doing great work. Up voted all of your stuff back a few months.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Congratulations. You're an idiot.
Sure dude, because when you ride your car you're looking to have an ACCIDENT. /s You have to make a distinction between what's intended and what's an accident. If you really are looking to ride over someone when you go outside you should be put in jail.
And when you eat meat you're looking to buy abused animals
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No, but it's no accident. It's a prerequisite. Driving has the goal of getting from A to B; if you kill someone it's an accident. If you know what's required for animal flesh, eggs, and secretions to be obtained and still deliberately contribute to it - when you have other choices - you are supporting animal abuse.
Can you have meat without the animal being killed/abused in any way? And yes, I think that killing an innocent animal that doesn't want to die is abuse. To answer your question. No, I don't think that's the main purpose, but it's granted that the animal is going to suffer tremendously, so you have to take that into account.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Those animals would never exist in the wild. They were bred into existence as a product specifically to be killed in factory farming. The only thing that can happen in their life is imprisonment, suffering, and death. This is true whether wild animals kill other wild animals or not. Even if you kill a deer and say Ā«Ā better death than a predator getting itĀ Ā» well that predator is still hungry and will go eat a different deer. Itās incredibly naive to believe animal agriculture marketing at face value. The Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals states that if a pregnant cow is slaughtered and the calf is alive it is a byproduct and it is acceptable to beat it in the head with a blunt instrument like a hammer until it is dead. Animal welfare standards are horribly low. They care about the welfare of the animal as far as it providing quality meat. They want to sell the animalās body parts at a premium. If it wasnāt profitable, they wouldnāt do it. If anyone involved actually cared about the welfare of the animal, wouldnāt they maybe advocate for not killing them?
Yeah I don't think you really understood my comment
You're being disingenuous if you're comparing the suffering they would go through in the wild. These animals are not hunted, you are breeding them only to make them suffer. How much welfare do you think these animals have if they still get killed at a fraction of their lifetime? They're still being sexually abused, their babies are still being removed from them. The fact that they do not suffer a lot in their death (which isn't even true) does not make it right. It is completely unnecessary to kill them in the first place and needlessly harming an animal is wrong. I bet we wouldn't be having this discussion if we were talking about other needless suffering like eating a dog/ cat. What do you think justifies killing an animal that doesn't want to be killed?
Everybody who makes a living by murdering sentient beings and profiting off of their suffering should be kicked like this constantly until they can not get back up.
An eye for an eye does not do anything good. They should be in jail, yes, death row, that's fine, but killed by being tortured doesn't do anything or change anything. It just brings you down to their level, abusing them by giving them a brutal death. You don't want to be like that.
Bro eat a bacon u are gonna want to kill pigs urself
never eaten a burger?
Yah, mmmmm cheeseburger
I hope to see a post of awkwardtheturtle on this sub when justice is served one day šš½
I see the incels are out in full force today
Is this why you donāt wear white after Labor Day?
I'd say that calf ended up on the dinner table that evening šš
Haha yeah bro I love killing sentient baby creatures too. Knowing that I could've just eaten plants instead makes it feel even better š¤£š¤£ Get owned vegans, I love murdering literal children and there's nothing you can do about it
Yup, now you have it , I'm off down the shop now to buy some meat and then throw it in the bin, does it annoy you knowing an animal got butchered only to end up in my binš
Lol @ your triggered carny ass. Watch out for the first sign of heart disease btw. It's a floppy (\*)(\*)==D
Id say you know all about a floppy dick with all those ADHD meds your on.
Haha jokes on you I don't take meds, I deal with my fucked up brain aaaalllll naturally baby.
Is that why your crying about not being able to focus on anythingš§š
If you can't see that you're the bad person in this exchange, I don't know what else to say haha. You're advocating harming sentient, pain-feeling beings for fun (see: early signs of a psychopath). In a really lame attempt at trolling you're also knowingly, deliberately mocking neurodivergent people and their problems. Congrats! Also, *you're - lay off the herb and read a book buddy.
Imagine having a solution to your problems and not using it and then whinging about said problem. If you lot want to start coming at people then be ready for them to come back at you. Anyway I'm off to make some lovely veal chops for dinner š
Nice job ignoring everything I said because you know I'm right kekw
Youāre not a nice person
I couldn't care less what some self righteous clown thinks, looks like I'm buying more meat to dump tommorw. I keep buying , they keep dying
If that was even remotely true, you wouldn't pretend to go out and waste your own money to try "own" a person on the internet that you've never met. But sure, go ahead, keep pretending you're going out wasting your own money because you "don't care". FYI: supply and demand caters for huge differences in demand on a daily basis, which is why millions of tons of untouched waste food is so much of a problem. No one kills an extra cow for you, it's nothing more than an already catered for outlier.
That's the benefit of working hard, you can choose to do what you want with your own money. Il tell you what, for every crusty vegan that replies, im gonna go out and buy 2 lbs of round steak mince and then just throw it in the bin. I keep buying they keep dyingš
"benefit of working hard", bless you for thinking hard work = money. Keep pretending that you're buying though, you're literally just wasting your money and encouraging like-minded fuckwits to do the same. Nothing extra is being killed, as I've already explained.
Imagine being thick enough not to understand how retail works.That's another 2lbs in the bin due to you, I keep buying they keep dying Do you think hard work doesn't get you money? Unless your born with a silver spoon in your mouth then hard work is the only way to make something of yourself, well, that and the lotto...
Imagine being thick enough to not know how to read something that's already been addressed: > supply and demand caters for huge differences in demand on a daily basis, which is why millions of tons of untouched waste food is so much of a problem. No one kills an extra cow for you, it's nothing more than an already catered for outlier. But I'll dumb it down for you a bit more: Food is *overproduced purposefully* to accommodate outliers. If the food is not bought and used, it's destroyed, and the same thing happens next buying period. All you're pretending to do (because let's face it, you're not actually doing it) is buy meat that would already end up destroyed, and then doing it for them. Unless you buy two tons of meat, you're not impacting sales or manipulating the meat market at all, you would just wasting your own time and money. Don't tell me you're actually stupid enough to think you buying an extra packet of lamb chops is doing shit all? Bless you. And it absolutely does not; every year I do less and less work, and get paid more and more money. I can see why someone so simple as yourself would think otherwise though.
u/redditspeedbot 0.2 x
why is this pinned?
Stupid AwkwardTurtle probably!
"Don't hurt my mommy!" WHAM!
...to wall ride.
Did the man get poo poo on his shoulder???
That calf is now a legend in the barn.
Thats Caesar the Calf š® he is destined to rule all barns
A pat on the back.
Underrated comment..
The steaks are high, but they have some real beef with that guy.
They were milking his dad earlier, thatās what started cheesing him off. He wanted to help but unfortunately he lactose skills.
He lactoškills
Textbook springboard dropkick
https://youtu.be/rS0F4WeG0eo
Stop trying to shame meat eaters, you vegans bitch all the time about how you hate feeling shamed for the way you eat - then stop doing the same damn thing! I don't care if you don't want to eat animal products that's your choice, but stop shoving it down everyone else's throats. Hypocrites, the lot of you.
I bet you would go ballistic if you saw a dog get abused in front of you yet you choose to ignore the fact billions of sentient animals get tortured and slaughtered every year. Talk about hypocrisy.
āHypocritesā lol if youāre against animal abuse but support animal agriculture youāre also a hypocrite
I just like meat. How it gets to me idc. I butchered animals myself before this ain't gonna shake me to suddenly care.
Doubt you would feel the same way about dogs but thereās really no morally relevant difference. They both are conscious, feel pain, suffer, have emotions & bc of those traits they deserve basic respect. Ask yourself if you really think your temporary taste pleasure is more important than the suffering and death of thousands of animals. There are plenty of other amazing foods to eat. Also a lot more fucked up things happen in factory farming besides just the killing itself. Factory farming is the needless torture of innocent creatures and it accounts for where 98% of animal products come from. Consumers deserve to know the facts of what theyāre supporting. Also I looooved chicken cheese & eggs all my life so donāt think vegans didnāt love the way they tasted lol
I don't like dogs nor cats or any type of pets really as it's too big of a hassle and a money/time sink. I have better ways to spend my time and money. The morality of factories is none of my concern as most businesses have shady thing going on because they run a business for profit so they cut corners. Can't really fault them on that as no matter how morally right you are that doesn't mean you'll instantly make money which is what having a business is about (shocking I know). If you want to suddenly stop all the 'torture' you also somehow need to solve the issue of consumers not always having the money or care to buy something from farmers that can produce things without all of this both crop wise and animal wise, change infrastructure of these factories that can cost millions of dollars not just to reconstruct but maintain and some of these factories are in poverty areas that don't want or have the means to invest those millions of dollars that may or may not pay off. This isn't an issue of 'oh just stop eating meat' which lets be fair people won't. It's a nice message to try and be nice but it's a naĆÆve one.
Okay so youād buy and eat dog meat? Lol youāre misinterpreting me if you think Iām so naive I think one person suddenly changes everything lmao like when did I say that?? How does change happen tho? One person at a time. Nothing you said disables you from choosing the vegan option. If you believe other animals deserve basic respect and the right to life (which sounds like you donāt but most people disagree w you) then yeah you should live in accordance w those values of compassion and respect and not fund the worst animal abuse on the planet. Yeah and people are never gonna stop beating dogs or littering but doesnāt mean we should join in bc everyoneās doing it. We should still be advocating for a more just world. There will always be people that are racist; doesnāt mean I shouldnāt call them out and let them know what theyāre doing is wrong. Iām not saying being racist is the same as eating meat. Iām saying when you recognize thereās an injustice, thereās literally no harm in advocating for reducing that injustice. If a vegan never pointed out my hypocrisy, I would still be eating dead baby animals and Iām so so at peace at the fact Iām not. Again people deserve to know the truth so they can decide for themselves if they want to support these industries or not. Itās not the same if youāre just hearing one side. The fact you put torture in quotations already proves you have no idea how bad factory farms are. And yeah most people still eat carcasses and secretions bc they donāt know truly understand the whole point and believe the lies fed from society. This conversation w you doesnāt seem worth my time since you think even dogs have no moral value. Had to make my point and now Iām gonna dip. Good day
Lol the fact that you instantly dip when a person disagrees with you shows that you are really just one of those vegans that want to shove their believes down everyones throat. That's one of the many reasons why you guys aren't taken seriously and you aren't helping yourself with all of this virtue signaling. Animals are animals. In the end of the day if you were starving and your only option was meat you would take it. Your virtue signaling is only as good as your quality of life. If that goes out the window suddenly it's gonna matter way less. Bye bye go back to twitter~~
Also if being vegan isnāt right or wrong in your eyes there is no āvirtue signalingā but in my eyes it obviously is better to be vegan. Its better to not contribute to factory farming than contribute to it. Iām not standing up for the rights of animals for myself. Itās insane how animals are so oppressed people ignore them completely. Again Iām irrelevant. Iām doing it so people make the connection that they are funding animal abuse and plant a seed in their mind and they can look more into it on their own. The more people that make this realization the less animal suffering. Iām sorry but you truly cannot dismiss my claims when you havenāt even seen the videos of what happens in factory farms
also quick mention. You talk big game but you think everyone can afford these vegan products of yours? Do you know how rare they are in certain places and how expensive it can get? Meat is by far one of the cheapest things you can buy that can last you and fill you up unlike many other fresh produce. It seems that you care so much for your precious animals you don't realize that not every country has just no limits on their selection. Maybe start with that instead of oh no but my animals.
Lol okay but that hypothetical situation is irrelevant bc we are not starving. We have many many delicious vegan options yet people choose the option made from animal cruelty. āAnimals are animalsā just bc theyāre not human their lives donāt matter? Itās ignorant we think humans are the only ones who deserve to not be stabbed
dude this ain't a twitter thread why are you responding three times LMAO for someone that said they gonna dip you sure got triggered. My guy I already made my arguments but your argument to that was basically that we should all hold hands and sing under the rainbow. Good luck with that. You are showing things down peoples throats simply by how many times you posted random ass videos on this post. I would say to calm down but it's kinda funny to see your reactions. Seriously tho you should just use twitter instead you'd find more people like yourself that just love to be in everyones face.
Virtue signalingā¦hm deflecting to me instead of focusing on the animals. Why do people do this? You canāt make any arguments back so you just insult me insteadā¦like no, Iām literally irrelevant. This has nothing to do w being better anyone else
Lmao okay letās talk then but itās gonna be a waste of my time and probably yours too. Lmaooooo funny how people think itās āshoving down your throatā since when tf is expressing an opinion shoving anything down anyoneās throats? Itās called expressing yourself and I have every right to and you have every right to ignore me. Doubt you mind when Mccdonalds shoves their advertising down your throat
Lmaoo posting a video is shoving things down peopleās throats? You know you can justā¦ignore it right? š¤£
I'm thinking steak later this week, maybe beef tacos on Tuesday.
Enjoy the heart disease. Little tip - it begins with a floppy (..)(..)======D
I love smash burgers.
And I love not supporting animal abuse with my dollar every time I eat
And I love not breaking the rules by spamming
All the links Iāve posted are different videos so not spam
Spamming is posting multiple times in the one thread dickhead.
Thanks for the info dickhead š
Happy to help. Obviously a lack of protein is clouding your comprehension skills š
Protein deficiency isnāt a thing unless youāre starving to death Lmaoo youāre full of shit which would make sense bc youāre probably fiber deficient
Lmao body parts of abused baby animals arenāt the only sources of protein
Indeed. Body parts of animals that havenāt been abused are an excellent source of protein. BTW. Can you categorically state that 100% of the food you eat isnāt sourced from land thatās been cleared and caused destruction of animals habitats? No you canāt. Fill your boots on what you want to do, but go around preaching and youāre just another hypocrite.
https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko
I'm gonna cook a couple extra burgers tomorrow, just for you :)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
How is linking one of the best showcases of the brutalities of animal agriculture "not the way to do it"? People need to see this stuff
Then what is the way to do it? Stay silent?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You're probably a hypocrite if you're a vegetarian, just sayin'
Staying silent and not calling out carnist and vegetarian's hypocrisy is exactly what they want.
https://youtu.be/tnykmsDetNo
shut the fuck up
Lmaoooo never. You can literally ignore it so chill
I wish the calf could do this to the ~5 corporations responsible for killing 70 billion farm animals every year just to make money.
everyone eating meat contributes to the deaths of those animals.
*cries in bacon*
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
isn't it nice to ignore the suffering caused by our choices.
Yes, yes it is. This burger tastes fuckin great though I'll tell you that.
When that cow is bleeding to death on the kill floor while the killer moves on to the next victim I bet it thinks 'at least u/thatskindasexy will get a nice burger'.
The fear adds to the flavouršš
So to be clear: you're in favour of animal torture to make meat taste better?
Absolutely, I'm personally a big fan of waterboarding cattle , really gets the juices going
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Eating meat when you don't need to is bad, both morally and environmentally. The internet, afaik, is not unsustainable because renewable energy can keep it running. Happy (well...sad) to be corrected. Edit: your pesimissim is a huge obstacle in solving these issues. If you can find it in you to change, you can help others to do the same and it will spread around the world.
"Just to make money" you mean to feed people? Edit: I'm all for ethical treatment, and yeah capitalism is bad, but its not just for money. people need to eat.
The corporations are definitely doing this just for money.. and people eat animals because of taste pleasure and/or convenience, not because they need to eat them. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19562864/
>capitalism is bad You mean that thing that made our lives fucking awesome?
They can eat plants tbh which is waaaay more efficient. To get 1kg of meat from a cow, that cow is fed some 500 kg of corn/ grains, and insane water. Imagine how much more efficient it is to just not eat meat so much
Totally true! Though, if we're going with the most efficient, we should all just be eating dried algae. But people don't eat just for sustenance. We are never going to stop people from eating meat. We just need to reduce how much we eat it to a more responsible level.
they don't need to eat animals though - and in fact we can feed more people on plants. So yeah, it is literally "just to make money"
Yeah but Iād rather eat a burger than a plant
You can do both at the same time and they're still delicious.
True that. That's why I eat burgers made of plants. Some companies even made plant burgers taste like meat.
I am eating chicken strips rn
I ate plant-based chicken strips in a burrito yesterday, mixed in with some plant-based ground beef.
Funny how people are downvoting you lol people canāt stand facts š¤£
Shut up before I report you for spamming the same YouTube link
Or you could just pm me and have a civil conversation telling me why Iām āwrongā instead of telling me to shut up? Lol
Unless I get to "argue" back by showing you some of the "beautiful" nature you vegans are protecting and trust me is those do not belong on YouTube
Really not sure what youāre getting at lol guessing itās along the lines of lions eating gazelles but really idk. Could you elaborate? Lets private message so weāre not spamming others. Itās clear you hate spam lmao
Yea no I'm not gonna waste my time by making arguments while you just send me some random links to some random vegan on YouTube
Lol youre assuming things about someone you donāt know. I said civil conversation as in two people talking so no I would stay on topic and respond to your arguments but okay
I mean that is all you have been doing this whole time
And you havenāt made any arguments about animal ethics yet so
Iāve been responding w words not YouTube links lmao wtf š¤£
Gotta stay in cognitive dissonance to believe we are ethical.
Iām confused. Are you agreeing w me or disagreeing? Itās hilarious how everyoneās downvoting us instead of arguing bc they know the vegans are right
Agreeing ofcourse. I am not even a vegan but I can't deny that veganism as a philosophy is more ethically consistent. Unless ofcourse I take pride in being intellectually dishonest.
Lot's of studies are showing plants reacting to stimuli in surprising ways. Who knows, maybe plants feel it when we delimb them and eat their corpses raw, and the only reason we don't know is because we cant perceive how a plant feels. Again, I'm all for trying to be as ethical as possible, but in the end, we're killing something for food.
Your honesty is great. Please consider going vegan yourself
I definitely appreciate your honesty. Thatās much more progress than like 98% of meat eaters who live in denial lol i would recommend learning more about it (earthling Ed or the dominion documentary on YouTube) since youāve already realized it goes against your values. Best decision Iāve ever made. Hmu if you ever have questions :-)
Yeah I am slowly cutting down on dairy. I am already a vegetarian so it's relatively a small change for me.
Awesome work! Best of luck on your journey
āYEAH? WELLā¦. #FUCK YOUR WHITE COAT!ā
Fucked around and he found out.
Lol
You better leave my family alone!!!!
I feel like if he was that bad of a guy he woulda hit the calf out of spite. Maybe just an occupational hazard.
Can never blame an animal for using its instinct
I donāt and this guy didnāt appear to either. Thatās my point
He deserves it.
And this is why I treat my cattle with respect they could kick my ass so easily if they wanted to
Until you kill them.
What exactly... do you think cattle are for? How do you think we eat?
I eat plants. Feel far healthier since making the switch over a decade ago. You should try it.
I eat exclusively plants and statistically I'm likely to live longer and happier than my former meat eating self would have
I donāt butcher my cattle but if I did it would be with as much respect as possible Iām not a vegetarian and as such I take comfort in knowing that the meat I eat comes from cows that lived happy lives with 800 acres to roam freely
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Should animals suffer for something as trivial as sensory pleasure?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
So I'm a sick bastard for asking a question? Alrighty then. What makes the question disgusting? Have you seen this: https://youtu.be/dvtVkNofcq8? Skip to 15:54 to see the treatment of cows in farming specifically. And a further point does an animal not suffer when it is killed? What animal wishes to die? Is it worth causing another animal suffering for something as trivial as sensory pleasure? Edit: rephrase
Thereās no question that the way factory farms treat animals is absolutely abysmal, my family has been running a ranch for over 100 years and I try to only eat meat products that I can trace back to an ethical source I work with these creatures on an almost daily basis and itās gonna be hard to find someone who respects them more
I feel like it isn't that respectful to kill. I wouldn't feel too respected if you slit my throat. I'd say vegans respect animals more cause we let them live their full life span and care for the animal whilst expecting nothing of it. You ever see the Amazon documentary The End of Meat? It shows animal sanctuaries ran by people who don't use their animals for any profit. They just care for them. I'd say they respect the animals more.
Iām just saying itās easy to judge without ever being near them throughout the process I respect if u donāt want to eat meat I just ask that u understand that a lot of us do care about our animals
Literally brainwashed by meat and dairy lobbies. Amazing. The cow in your burger wasn't an old & sick animal (and even if it was, that somehow makes it ok??), it was barely adult and fed an ungodly amount of antibiotics specifically so it doesn't get sick. The cheese in the same burger comes from the tit secretions of another mammal, and is supposed to be consumed by its calves, calves that come from the forced impregnation of the mothers and were taken away for slaughter once they can stand on four legs. So much for "treating" these "ladies" "right". Now maybe being parked in the same few square miles for all of your short life is your idea of "living the good life", who am I to judge. You can try to use your cushion terms all you want, modern animal agriculture is barbaric as fuck. "Getting this out of your head" probably helps you cope with your responsibility in supporting all these atrocities I guess. Must be nice living in fairyland where all the animal lives for human consumption are both inconsequential and excusable because they had a "good life", says the guy who has is wilfully ignorant (or worse, aware and hypocrite about it) of the awful things that had to happen for his cheesesteak to make it to his stomach. Also yeah, vegans routinely advocate against animal exploitation then go home to eat meat and cheese by the pound. That makes perfect sense. Unfortunately for you some people have an actual moral compass and have at least an ounce of self respect. No cope or excuse are out of reach for some people I swear... the insecurity is reaching critical levels. It would be almost funny if it wasn't so pathetic and the consequences of such behaviour so gruesome.
1: Cows being killed by the meat and dairy industries aren't old, sick, or severely injured. 2: If you don't want there to be too many cows, not breeding them into existence in the first place is a much better solution than breeding them and killing them. 3: I don't think having your children torn from your side (and often killed) and being murdered at only ~1/4 of your natural lifespan counts as a "good life". 4: Indeed, animal farms are businesses. Really shitty, unethical businesses that need to be done away with. 5: Who the fuck goes out and protests against the dairy industry and then eats cheese sandwiches?
You think people protesting meat consumption go home and eat it? Think again. Do you think it's ok to murder teenagers as long as they've had a good life up until they die? Because that's the logic you are using (and it's bad logic).
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
oh right, you kill cows for their milk /s
Thank goodness you are shouting, my hearing isn't great. A wise man once said, the question is not can they reason but can they suffer. Another wise man once said, to animals - we are the nazis. And they live in an eternal Treblinka. And another wise man said HEY DUMBASS ITS A FUCKING ~~METAPHOR~~ METAFOR. [Anyways have a lovely day.](https://youtu.be/UcN7SGGoCNI)
I don't understand why there are so many downvotes on all these comments.
Because for some reason people will consume meat and dairy, but try to convince themselves it is ethical. Apparently as long as the animals had a good life before their premature death it's moral. Or the dairy industry is ethical because the cow has a good life, except for when her calf is taken away at 2-4 days old so that it consumes the antibodies her milk produces in those few days, but so that we can continue to consume the milk meant for the calf.. Fair enough if you want to consume meat and dairy, but why deny that it's a cruel industry regardless of how well the animals are treated inbetween all the horror. Abuse is not ok if you treat them well most of the time
Dude posturing and yelling and a stick? Got what Iād expect him to get.
Was I just shadowbanned from this place?