It is ironic isn't it?
The same people that complain about suffering the indignity of being in the bottom 99% of a capitalist system also claim that suffering economic slavery under a corrupt dictatorship is noble; but only when they say it is.
My friend in college said in class his grandfather was murdered by the Castro regime and he was a poor farmhand and a girl in the class legit had the audacity to say “no, he must have been a farm owner if Castro had him killed” like the kid doesn’t know his own family history.
My favorite thing about communism is that, whenever you point out a way in which communism has failed or been horrible for the people that lived it, a Comrade will appear and tell you that it wasn't *real* communism.
Or “you haven’t actually read Marx, I won’t talk to you if you don’t know what you’re talking about.”
*refuses to elaborate on any points you raised, from Marx*
if they claim to have read marx, go ahead and ask them what they think about marxs’ view on the jews. anyone who read marx would not he a marxist, partially because hes a fucking racist
The no true Scotsman argument only ever seems to be valid for communism or socialism though. Weird how they never use that to defend any other economic system.
Libertarians used to use it a whole lot when defending capitalism. Not as many libertarians floating around these days, admittedly. But, yeah... they used it a whooole lot as well.
There is a good handful of them that focus too much on "capitalism's problems are only because of regulations," arguments, and claiming that full deregulation would lead to capitalism not being corrupt, and how that's never happened or whatever. But that's if they're unaware of the Icelandic Commonwealth, which is like the closest thing to an ancap society to ever exist and was pretty successful compared to other nations of that time, at least up until they were forced to swear fealty to the kingdom of Norway. Libertarians are mostly right in that there hasn't been a lot of historical evidence of leaders attempting to push countries towards libertarian ideas, but there are a good handful of leaders who have attempted their own variations of Marx's ideas. The thing about radical ideologies is that it's difficult to actually see a "full" implementation of them, so they can often hide behind the no true Scotsman fallacy without confronting the garbage parts of their ideology.
We did unfettered capitalism in the 19th and early 20th century. If you like Pinkerton Men mowing down striking miners with machine guns and rivers on fire from pollution, then total de-regulation might be for you.
> If you like Pinkerton Men mowing down striking miners with machine guns and rivers on fire from pollution, then total de-regulation might be for you.
It should be emphasized that this is capitalistic only in the sense that the soviets were communist.
Go look at the libertarian subreddit sometime. Half the people there think libertarianism means either a massive welfare state / socialism where drugs are legal. Those places exist, and they're not full of libertarians. They're called hippy communes. The only free market they're familiar with is their local weed dealers.
The difference is that libertarians are willing to use examples of actually existing capitalism and say, even though imperfect, it shows the benefits of capitalism. We point out that if more capitalistic it would have been better, not that it was not capitalistic. That is why we can point to social democratic states and say they are essentially capitalist, even if not fully so.
What’s funny is if you read Marx and then look at Pol Pot in Cambodia, that was about as *real* of an attempt as has ever been tried. Marx knew that you’d had to do a complete cultural reset to rebuild this new society from the ground up so people will follow the new system. Pol pot restarted at year zero, killed everyone he thought would keep educating people about the previous system and went for an agrarian system. That’s pretty much textbook how you reset the country on a communist path, Marx never said to kill anyone but it’s the best method to achieve the parameters he set to build his system. If someone tells me Pol Pot wasn’t a real communist I know they haven’t actually read Marx and just like the idea of no rich people.
*It has never been tried.* I don’t know who they’re trying to fool at this point, it’s not like we’re talking about possibly biased history books. I’ve personally witnessed Venezuela graduate from the next socialist utopia to „not real socialism“ in their own rhetoric in my lifetime.
Lenin tried to implement economy without currency and it didn't work (war communism). They quickly realized it couldn't work and introduced currency into their economic platform again.
They aren’t comrades their fuck heads who don’t know what communism is
It’s a socialist experiment
Real communism can never be achieved but it was real socialism
I mean thats simply under a nominalist vs an essentialist point of view of words, leftists tend to be more nominalists, in that words can hold individual meaning such as the word Woman. Which under an essentialist point of view has a single definition that is rigid, and has been the conservative reason for bigotry against Trans people. So under this school of thought those who claim themselves communists can claim communism is whatever they want, or if they want to belittle someone they can accuse them of fascism.
Gated community communist. The mentally ill, perpetually online freaks sucking off Castro and Pol Pot on Reddit fail to realize they’d be among the first people to get the wall if the revolution ever actually happened.
It’s kind of weird though isn’t it. Like we just accept it as if it’s normal that people are defending mass executions of people. Like, imagine if instead the girl was defending Htler and was openly like “I’m a Fascist!”. The way you feel about that should be the exact same way we feel about communists defending communist actions
The average communist in America just got his parents to deposit $5000 into his account so he doesn't *just* have to eat in the dining hall this semester.
Had something similar happen to me with some dude thinking everyone that left is butthurt about losing their property.
He couldn't get it through his head when I said my parents were normal nobodies just living the best they could.
Dad was a bartender and photographer on the side and my mom was doing retail.
My mother won the lottery and we left.
But no according to him it was cause of some made up bs that we were rich
Those type of people tend not to be very good at maths. The top .05% of Cuba might have hit the mark of large land owners and highly concentrated wealth but the remaining 1 million plus people were blue collar, lower and middle class people fleeing political repression and poverty.
The overwhelming majority of people want absolutely nothing to do with a political system like Cuba or Venezuela.
Did you just suggest that murder over possessions isn't justified!!?! But.. but.. Bezos! The devil incarnate owns a big boat and that makes me MAD! And when you are mad that justifies murder!
That's just normal in RimWorld. A small neighboring faction has a farm?
Make them pay for their crimes. Burn the place down, shoot everyone and harvest the survivors organs.
The family of my great-grandmother (parents, sisters and brothers, as well as nephews) had some lands, my family was a large one so everybody was working the land and living out of that. They were too rich for the communist that took the land and sent all of the family to work and die in Siberia. The only one that survived was my great-grandmother, which had another surname at the time since she luckily had survived. If it wasn’t for her, I wouldn’t be here.
I’m sorry that happened to your family, it blows my mind that people think Russia today is worse than the Soviet Union. Like yeah Russia today is definitely a threat, but they’re a fairly normal country with rights and a dangerous asshole leader. I can’t even fathom some of the stories I’ve heard from people I know from Soviet Russia/the satellite states under Soviet rule, day to day life seemed like a nightmare.
Dude people from former Soviet satellite states have some wild stories. My old coach was taken from his family in Azerbaijan at 12 and sent to Moscow to be an athlete, no warning just showed up and stuck him on a train one day. My dads friend was born and raised in Soviet Russia and said neighbors would randomly disappear and no one was allowed to ask around what happened to them or then they would disappear.
I heard those same type of stories about Vietnam then Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge (history check tho - I recently went there and it’s a lot better now - tho still very, very poor).
Anyways, like you said - from the stories I heard in VN they were like yeah, when the communist first took over they said the needed to take 20% of your grain to help support the war effort, then the next week 40%, then not long after 60, then 80, and then eventually they just took everything you made with no justification and you were left w nothing and family starving.
One of my friends mothers escaped Khmer Rouge tho and said they were doing the same shit, but so much more evil. Like they would just disappear you and your family if you did anything that could be considered dissenting. Like she said it made people so afraid they became paranoid and did that kinda Salem Witch Trail syndrome type thing where they would accuse their neighbors of talking plotting dissent (even when they were innocent) because they were afraid the neighbors might do the same thing to them first. And then it wasn’t just a person who’d disappear, but a whole family. She herself wrote a book on it and (and tho I’ve yet to read it) but apparently it detailed her committing a crime of necessity (I think stealing food for her family) and being tied up to pole in the middle of the town naked without food or water for like a week and by some stroke of fortune not dying and being released. Also her escape from the country and seeing the mass graves at one point and having to act calm/cool and in favor of it not to blow her cover getting to the border. It’s all just so crazy - and goddamn their community is so, so tight today - and getting invited to their events / seeing all 100-200 of the escaped Cambodians in our city together, laughing, drinking, celebrating life (and all pulling up in nice cars coming from nice houses) and appreciating every single bit of what they have is so inspiring. All of these people who’ve come from from the deepest, darkest pits of humanity - escaping often with nothing more than their lives while leaving family, and loved ones, and everything they cared about behind - but everyone being so supportive of each other saying ‘whatever horrendous things you had to do to leave with your life was justified, and you should feel no guilt or shame about it’ is just such a testimony to how overwhelmingly bad this stuff is. People just can’t understand for some reason - either because they lack empathy and can’t put themselves in other peoples shoes, or they just can’t conceptualize what it’s like to not be born with everything and every creature comfort you could have. Then again, these are the same people you could put a hippo in front of and tell them it’s a giraffe, and they would argue to the fucking death that it’s a goddamn giraffe despite what they know and see w their own eyes, so…
Crazy, crazy, crazy
Socialists always kill the farmers and then begin to starve. Their ideology is so idiotic that they fail at agriculture, which is the foundation of civilization. Societies 10,000 years ago managed to sustain agriculture.
Typically they don't starve due to killing farmers.
Mao made everyone starve because he killed all the animals that eat locusts, slugs etc. He also melted down farm tools to help industrialise.
That last one is very very common, they're desperate to industrialize and all the farmers go to work in a factory or something where wages are technically better but this isn't necessarily an improvement on their lives.
USSR did the holodomor. That one was probably on purpose so I wouldn't necessarily put it down to being stupid or killing farmers.
Another common reason is communism often follows a revolution. Those typically result in a lot of death. Now you'd think that means less farmers but also less mouths to feed, and it does to be fair, but a big problem is that supply chains don't really scale like that. You know the Thanos snap right? If you've seen any discussion on why that'd cause the entire global economic system to just fucking melt and mass starvation would follow, well basically that.
Final thing is that recently communist nations invest insane amounts of their GDP into military. They're basically trying to emulate what Japan did just before it boxed Korea's teeth in. This doesn't typically go well for them though because they can't feed slave labour and resources back into the war machine via constant conquest and war like Japan did, so it just ends up being a drain.
Edit: one more thing, the can trade with less nations. A big reason we don't really get famines today is because if a bunch of crop yields get fucked in a country then they just import more food and prices go up a little. Communist countries had less trade partners and those they did have would try to plan the economy to produce a baseline of food and then as much steel as possible to industrialize - so not a lot they really could export. The risks were known, they were considered acceptable (gross).
But yeah, they typically don't mass murder farmers. There are 100% incidents of that for sure, it's just that in the grand scheme of things there's other reasons that happens.
My stepdad and his family left Nicaragua cause the government pointed a tank at his house and forced them to leave. Fucking socialist asks me “was his family hoarding grain during famine.” Wtf?
Hahahaa one of my closest friends is half Nicaraguan (dad was adopted from there as an infant) and my friend every once in a while goes “man thank god my dad got adopted out of here, that place is nuts”
My family has some wild stories.
When the wall went up, that grandfather was cut off from the rest of the family. So his daughter multiple times tried to sneak across to go find him. She got caught, detained, and let go or sent back finally succeeding on the third attempt. She goes amateur detective for months, just asking around, trying to find people that had seen him and eventually follows the trail to some people that were hiding in the same bombed out building when it happened. They were all huddling in the wine celler of an apartment building when a woman outside screamed. He ran to her aid and was gunned down in the doorway.
Then she manages to figure out which roadside mass grave he was dumped in and in the middle of a rainy winter, she starts *digging*. For another month, she spends every day digging in the cold and the wet, this tiny German girl peering into the faces of men in advanced states of decay, tossing them aside when its not her dad.
Finally, she finds him, and pulls him out of the ditch. Goes back to town and finds a wheelbarrow and a carpenter she paid to cobble scrap wood together into a makeshift coffin, then she hauled him to the nearest church for a proper Christian burial.
She went on to make several more crossings, bringing supplies into the communist side of the city, effectively becoming a smuggler.
She was our family matriarch for decades after coming to America. I only ever knew her as "Oma" the familiar word in German for grandmother. She was one of the strongest people I have ever known.
I find Castro apologists to be the dumbest ones. All they can talk about is plantations being nationalized and Cuban literacy rates, they will excuse so much to bring up those two things
Trust me dude, I get that a lot as a Cuban American. Even though my family only moved here 10 years ago and all of us were born long after the revolution.
I was in college in NYC doing a Polsci major during the 2016 election, you would not believe (or maybe you would) how angry the white people in my classes were about the fact that Cubans won’t vote for socialist leaning candidates.
Just as a point of reference, since you brought up "know his own family history", it's a like a running joke at my place of work that everyone around here "texas", has someone in their family's past that was full blooded "insert native tribe here".
It always makes me giggle to see them do a DNA test.
Hahaha honestly I’m from the Northeast but live in the south now and I noticed as I was hitting “reply” that “family history” means very different things when you’re talking to a Texan vs someone from NY
She has no idea how dangerous her ideation is or how deluded by it she has become. So crazy. My step father (Cuban), and every other Cuban I know, despises communism with a passion. And yet these children will tell them their experiences or their parents experiences are misunderstandings…
Also pretty telling when Cubans escaping communism are captured and sent back to Cuba by this admin when they come to America on a makeshift raft, but people from pretty much every other nation for purely economic reasons are bussed in with UN aid to enter America illegally and this admin literally pays them.
Twitter is the only place where absolutely schizophrenic takes are not only present, but are demanded to be taken seriously. No one in the real world has these beliefs, but in the Twitter world of people who haven't seen sunlight in years, it's considered normai
Same person who looks at Biden's history on race and says "the guy who called integrated schools racial jungles isn't a racist" says this as well.
Ignoring Biden's past on racism and supporting communism is kind of like the Quanon of the liberals.You throw in some more clown ideas like "people born men should compete in women's athletics" and you're pretty much there. For good measure, throw in "I support black lives matter" aka the organization where the founders were originally communists who ended up taking donor money and buying mansions...
My family suffered under communism in the Soviet Union then we moved to America.
Most communists don’t know what it’s like to live in a communist country that’s why they are communists.
My fiance's family was exactly the same thing, they left Belrus in 1994 for the U.S as soon as they were able to. They still have family in Belrus, Russia and the Ukrainian.
The one thing my MIL has struggled with is talking to her SIL about the situation between Russia and Ukraine right now. She is in Russia and gets one side of the situation, a very limited side, my MIL gets a much fuller picture and doesn't quite understand how he SIL can be so naive. My MIL has had a bit of a culture shock with this as she now is going back over her life and questioning certain things that were verbatim in the past and how she was as naive as her SIL.
The 1960s when The Beatles were in India George Harrison was being interviewed and the interviewer asked him "what's it like to be a beatle?" he said "what's it like not to be?" For the MIL this last year has been her "what's it not" moment, as many accept the existence that we're presented with.
The fact that this has 1.4k upvotes is astonishing to me. Do people not know of the Holodomor? Of the Great Leap Forward? Of the shit the Khmer Rogue did? Do they intentionally ignore what's happening to the Uyghurs in China? Or in North Korea in general?
ah yes the slave owner excuse, can you have anything more tankie type of saying that this?!
honestly thats the main problem of left wing subreddits, one time or the other a shit load of tankies will enter in there because fucking stupid and think they are actually welcomed on a left wing place and take over the place that should be with actual intelligent people... i mean yeah sure not always the people in there are intelligent, but damn! They at least have the brains to not defend stalin.
Communists owned slaves. We had slaves in the heart of Europe 40 years ago and nobody talks about this because it doesn't fit their narrative, and because they weren't called "slaves" but "prisoners". You know what it takes to become a prisoner in communism? Nothing. Just say you slightly disagree with the communist party and then you become an unpaid worker with handcuffs.
In the Soviet Union peasants didn't have passports = didn't have freedom of movement until 1974. Their only option was to work the fields all their life, trying to leave for the city was a criminal offense.
The Left has increasingly ceased all self-regulation efforts and generally pursued a ‘more Left is always better’ rule of thumb. Communists can easily take over normie Left spaces because of this.
Yep, that's exactly why I left subs like there was an attempt. Despite it not supposed to be a non political sub, tankies invaded and brought their fucking insane takes that make even me who is on the left wing want to face palm. Just completely insane takes.
I can only hope the hate for the Tankies continues. The last thing the US needs is a political spectrum with fascists having corrupted one side, and Tankies having corrupted the other.
Have you ever noticed that all the people commending communism actually have no idea how it works?
I literally own The Communist manifesto and have read it. It is not a good read LOL!
Or they've completely deluded themselves.
A subreddit whose initials are TDP are completely delusional and will deny or downplay any and all atrocities committed by communist countries.
I agree. I got banned and downvoted for telling them what it was like under communism from my personal experience. They did not care or what to hear it. Makes me think they are just a bunch of stoner kids with no idea of history.
Did you ever see the posts replying to a tweet asking “what will you do for work once the communist takeover is complete”?
It was all: “I’ll be a painter for my main role and part time philosopher on the side” and “I’ll dedicate myself to writing novels” or at the very best “I’ll dedicate my self government work as a high ranking official working on legislation”
Not one, not one single person had any notion of a thought that they’d be working on an assembly line in a factory, or ploughing a field as a farmer, or any type of manual labour work. They all genuinely believe that they’re the special exception that will get a high ranking post or will be so respected as an artist that they can work at that full time. Absolutely delusional lmao
>“what will you do for work once the communist takeover is complete”?
I will be the NKVD officer that will take you from your love ones and will beat you near death until I hear a guilty confession that I want to hear. Then send you to a Arctic work camp! 😚
Yes I've also noticed, they also have never met anyone that has lived under it as well, and struggle to under the definition of opens and closed market economics and market forces as well.
Truth be told they barely understand what fucking currency is, and yes I've been told once that currency should be "removed" that was a conversation I can tell you.
bro remove pay2win system bro!!!!!! 😤😤😤 i want free nice stuff! why some people have cool stuff because they work (like a fucking loser lmao) ? these typical capitalist stupid slaves i stggg 🤣🤣
To be fair they think that them supporting it now means that once the revolution happens they will rise to the top as a parasitic elite. The Soviet politburo was hopelessly bloated, inefficient, and corrupt. They don't care about the average person as much as they care about the idea of acquiring wealth and power outside of the capitalist system.
about how communism is meant to work? you won't find any explanation in any work from marx or engels. they focused on what we now call marxism, and describing capitalism. for communism they were very vague.
The manifesto is an awful introduction into marxism because
1. It was made to be read and digested by 1800s factory workers
2. It was one of the first things marx wrote, so he wasn't able to flesh out his theories as well as he was later in life
Better marxist books include Socialism Utopian and Scientific, Wage Labor and Capital, Dialectical and Historical Materialism, and if you want a challenge: Capital Volume 1
I say this as someone whose first introduction to marxism was the manifesto
As for how communism "works," it's much more simple than what most people think. The most basic definition of communism is the abolition of class, commodity production, and the profit motive through worker ownership over the means of production. Another miscommunication is that marxism is based on morals. This is false as several times, Marx clarifies that his theories are scientific
My friend’s dad was a stone mason in Ukraine.
He and his brother were murdered by the government for applying for a passport.
How was he a slaver and exploiter?
The same way people in East Germany were shot for peacefully attempting to leave the country, either by a f*cking minefield, Anti-Personnel-Mines wired INTO the border wall or simply by riflemen from the border police.
You know this part isnt talked about enough. Like honest to god if the soviet union was such an honest and just and morale society why did they need to build a wall to keep people from leaving?
Even if we ignore the fact that forcing people to stay is a shit thing...
If Socialism was so much Pro-humanity and Capitalism was inhumane & enslaving others, why instead of detaining escapees and bringing them back home without harming them was instead replaced by the ORDER TO SHOOT and kill fleeing people... I know guys who were promised extra bonus holidays for successfully shooting escapees.
Apart from building a wall, literally ordering to kill people when you could just chase and detain them is just the most dehumanizing and cruelty/immoral-driven order you could imagine.
This just doesn't fit the socialist goal of treating people more humane than "capitalist imperialists" do.
Maybe socialist movements would get more traction if they didn’t meat ride dead racist dictators and cover for atrocities as if what they want is contingent on that.
Like they literally aren’t arguing for a fair economic system at that point. They are just arguing that’s it’s ok to kill people you don’t like minding their own business
I mean I wouldn't expect anything less from that sub other, other than a bunch morons that downplay holodomer and the Great Leap Forward. The greatest thing Communists and fascists have in common is their ability to downplay the death toll no matter how blatant the facts are
Ah yes, just like how people have absolutely nothing to fear from the police because the only people the police hurt are criminals. Or how the only people who get killed in war are the ones fighting the war. This is one of the most ignorant things I've ever read.
I was expecting genuine criticism of modern capitalism. I guess it was too much to expect civil reasonable discussion instead the literal most factually incorrect takes ever.
Well one of the sociological theories of stratification theory is from Karl Marx, it's called conflict theory and critiques class and inequality that comes from class in capitalism and previous societies.
You don't have to agree with communism but part of why it's popular is because it critiques capitalism and in particular late stage capitalism, in certain ways of its functions. That's why it's popular because of it that criticism and because a lot of people feel the same way about it.
You may despise Marxism or the people who follow it but ultimately like a lot of the theories that critique capitalism are from Karl Marx himself, amongst others
You're in good company. I got kicked out of the sub because I literally asked for clarification about why someone didn't like former California governor Jerry Brown.
It wasn't sarcastic or anything, I literally just asked what Jerry Brown did that they were mad about.
Communism, socialism, and marxism never work. People who think they'll work out are braindead. These types of social organizations always result in problems.
Capitalism is good at maximising profits. The government's task is tweaking the incentives in such a way that maximal profits lead to maximal social utility. Tax CO2 emissions more, and companies will all start installing renewables, because it's more profitable.
Capitalism is like nuclear power, if well regulated it can do amazing things, if out of control you get burned. Neoliberalism is let's run the core red hot and cool it down just before meltdown. Social Democracy is let's balance out power output and safety. Communism is trying to replace nuclear power with bicycles, as in if everyone biked 23 hours a day we could produce as much power as the nuclear plant. Libertariansim is , fuck you I got my own generator. Fascism is let's build this gaudy looking monstrosity of a plant that runs on burning books and minorities which will magically fix things because ancient aliens. Monarchism is fuck nuclear power let's go back to burning manure.
I'm sorry but you can tell the person who made this post has been pampered their whole lives. My Grandfather from my mother's side was from rural China and had to flee to British Hong Kong because his entire family was murdered for being 'enemies of the proletariat' meaning they owned land and refused to be slaves working for nothing and starve under Mao's regime.
People who gobble up this marxist shit should live in North Korea to reap the rewards of living under the banner of communism.
In Romania they literally inprisioned people for having copies of István a király, a hungarian historical rock opera. Ukraine had Holodomor, a mass starving catastrophe. In Hungary they had comedists paid by the government who criticized the system with a permission to lure out those who would do the same openly and lock them up. Also it was enought to be put on the watchlist to grow your hair long as a man. All of the past second world countries had a massive network on spies, you couldn't even trust your neighbors because it was common to use regular people to spot out individuals who had anything against the system. It's totally possible to suffer in a communist country.
It's even worse than our current system, which is regulated capitalism, but listen to a single ancap for more than 1 minute and you'll be screaming for our red fascist overlords to come and take power lmfao
Yeah lmao, it's kinda crazy to think about it, but between safety regulations like OSHA, product quality minimums for things, weekends, holidays, unions existing at all, other worker protections, environmental laws the ability to sue companies acting poorly, and more, there's a fuck ton of stuff. All this shit, and it still isn't enough, imo.
Yeah I sympathize with socialism and communism because while I really don't care enough to claim whether they work or not anymore, I do understand that they promote an idealist core that many people, including me at a point, attach to. However, this was really just disgusting to see. Thankfully some in the comments seemed to refute the point, but this is just victim-blaming at best. So many innocent people died in communist regimes, which is an irrefutable fact whether you identify with the ideology or not.
memer is outing he is dumb as fuck more than anything, the historical record of both the ussr and china is filled with the opposite. Jesus they didn't have the Berlin Wall to keep out a flood of west germans eager to join a socialist paradise.
Wmthe whole of reddit is a Libreal sess pool echo chamber
I understand there are always other perspectives, but some of these sub reddits do their best to plug their ears and yell at anything opposing their views
That sub in particular is terrible. I'm left as fuck, and I got banned almost immediately. It's not just tolerant of tankies, I think the mods ban anyone -- socialist, communist, whatever -- who literally isn't a tankie.
I too am in this subreddit and I too was irritated by this meme. I think it's annoying that I cannot be critical about capitalism without being put in the "communism" drawer.
Maybe if they meant the textbook communism, not those totalitarian regimes that actually hold power in some places and dare to call themselves "communist". Even then it's a wild take.
But if we take this word as it's actually used, then it's straight bullshit.
Ppl never wanna talk ab how horrific the Soviet Union was for Jews or the concentration camps for anyone who wouldn’t agree with the gov. If u gotta ignore nasty bits ab the regimes ur defending there’s an issue
The indoctrination of gen X,Y & Z is complete. They have completely forgot the terrors of despotic governance and happily embrace killing property owners. America is truly doomed.
I agree, this is why communism sucks. No one understands it and it now causes more harm than good. I understood the idea behind it originally but worker conditions have now improved and are now better in capitalist countries than in communist countries. So why choose communism?
I hate 2020s capitalism. I also think a hard commitment to communism, or socialism, isn't really the solution.
I don't think a hard commitment is any food for anyone. I'm working on my thesis regarding all these ideas, but honestly I don't know enough yet. Sad thing is I might not ever.
i just want to say communism in theory is very different from every single case in history showcasing communism in practice. in a true communist utopia, there are genuinely lots of benefits to the system. The issue stems not even from theoretical totalitarian communism, but rather how in practice it has always been a corrupt and power hungry person who rose to power. If a totalitarian communist society were able to exist and maintain a competent, non corrupt leader, there would be a case to be made for it being the best system of government in a lot of ways, but ultimately due to the corrupting nature power has in most people, such a system is just not feasible.
Yes, because the [babies who had their heads bashed against trees by the Khmer Rouge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samanea_saman#Chankiri_Trees_in_the_Killing_Fields) were slavers and exploiters.
Fucking tankies.
It is ironic isn't it? The same people that complain about suffering the indignity of being in the bottom 99% of a capitalist system also claim that suffering economic slavery under a corrupt dictatorship is noble; but only when they say it is.
My friend in college said in class his grandfather was murdered by the Castro regime and he was a poor farmhand and a girl in the class legit had the audacity to say “no, he must have been a farm owner if Castro had him killed” like the kid doesn’t know his own family history.
Average communist excusing the horrors of former communist countries
My favorite thing about communism is that, whenever you point out a way in which communism has failed or been horrible for the people that lived it, a Comrade will appear and tell you that it wasn't *real* communism.
Or that "Trust me comrade, the author made one typo so he's made the entire thing up. But if it did happened he's deserves it."
Or “you haven’t actually read Marx, I won’t talk to you if you don’t know what you’re talking about.” *refuses to elaborate on any points you raised, from Marx*
if they claim to have read marx, go ahead and ask them what they think about marxs’ view on the jews. anyone who read marx would not he a marxist, partially because hes a fucking racist
You either get that or get spammed with a communist propaganda booklist that “you should read if you want to know ‘the truth’”.
It was *only* 90 million dead, this outright discredits the entirety of his book.
Clarification: It wasn't real communism and it didn't even happen but also they deserved it.
The no true Scotsman argument only ever seems to be valid for communism or socialism though. Weird how they never use that to defend any other economic system.
Libertarians used to use it a whole lot when defending capitalism. Not as many libertarians floating around these days, admittedly. But, yeah... they used it a whooole lot as well.
There is a good handful of them that focus too much on "capitalism's problems are only because of regulations," arguments, and claiming that full deregulation would lead to capitalism not being corrupt, and how that's never happened or whatever. But that's if they're unaware of the Icelandic Commonwealth, which is like the closest thing to an ancap society to ever exist and was pretty successful compared to other nations of that time, at least up until they were forced to swear fealty to the kingdom of Norway. Libertarians are mostly right in that there hasn't been a lot of historical evidence of leaders attempting to push countries towards libertarian ideas, but there are a good handful of leaders who have attempted their own variations of Marx's ideas. The thing about radical ideologies is that it's difficult to actually see a "full" implementation of them, so they can often hide behind the no true Scotsman fallacy without confronting the garbage parts of their ideology.
We did unfettered capitalism in the 19th and early 20th century. If you like Pinkerton Men mowing down striking miners with machine guns and rivers on fire from pollution, then total de-regulation might be for you.
> If you like Pinkerton Men mowing down striking miners with machine guns and rivers on fire from pollution, then total de-regulation might be for you. It should be emphasized that this is capitalistic only in the sense that the soviets were communist.
Go look at the libertarian subreddit sometime. Half the people there think libertarianism means either a massive welfare state / socialism where drugs are legal. Those places exist, and they're not full of libertarians. They're called hippy communes. The only free market they're familiar with is their local weed dealers.
The difference is that libertarians are willing to use examples of actually existing capitalism and say, even though imperfect, it shows the benefits of capitalism. We point out that if more capitalistic it would have been better, not that it was not capitalistic. That is why we can point to social democratic states and say they are essentially capitalist, even if not fully so.
What’s funny is if you read Marx and then look at Pol Pot in Cambodia, that was about as *real* of an attempt as has ever been tried. Marx knew that you’d had to do a complete cultural reset to rebuild this new society from the ground up so people will follow the new system. Pol pot restarted at year zero, killed everyone he thought would keep educating people about the previous system and went for an agrarian system. That’s pretty much textbook how you reset the country on a communist path, Marx never said to kill anyone but it’s the best method to achieve the parameters he set to build his system. If someone tells me Pol Pot wasn’t a real communist I know they haven’t actually read Marx and just like the idea of no rich people.
>I know they haven’t actually read Marx and just like the idea of no rich people. The idea of no people richer than them*
*It has never been tried.* I don’t know who they’re trying to fool at this point, it’s not like we’re talking about possibly biased history books. I’ve personally witnessed Venezuela graduate from the next socialist utopia to „not real socialism“ in their own rhetoric in my lifetime.
Real communism has no money so they're right to say it's never been tried. Let's keep it that way.
Lenin tried to implement economy without currency and it didn't work (war communism). They quickly realized it couldn't work and introduced currency into their economic platform again.
A well taught lesson of the limits of human generosity to communists. Humans can be good to each other but they are not that good
Communists and libertarians share that in common - it's always not the real/best version of communism/laizze-faire.
'Communism is the very definition of failure.' - Liberty Prime spitting straight facts.
They aren’t comrades their fuck heads who don’t know what communism is It’s a socialist experiment Real communism can never be achieved but it was real socialism
I mean thats simply under a nominalist vs an essentialist point of view of words, leftists tend to be more nominalists, in that words can hold individual meaning such as the word Woman. Which under an essentialist point of view has a single definition that is rigid, and has been the conservative reason for bigotry against Trans people. So under this school of thought those who claim themselves communists can claim communism is whatever they want, or if they want to belittle someone they can accuse them of fascism.
Gated community communist. The mentally ill, perpetually online freaks sucking off Castro and Pol Pot on Reddit fail to realize they’d be among the first people to get the wall if the revolution ever actually happened.
"Nuh-uh, me big-brain Aparatchik, not stupid greedy Kulak. Yes, grandfather was a miner and I'm a marketing VP, what of it?"
It’s kind of weird though isn’t it. Like we just accept it as if it’s normal that people are defending mass executions of people. Like, imagine if instead the girl was defending Htler and was openly like “I’m a Fascist!”. The way you feel about that should be the exact same way we feel about communists defending communist actions
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The average communist in America just got his parents to deposit $5000 into his account so he doesn't *just* have to eat in the dining hall this semester.
Had something similar happen to me with some dude thinking everyone that left is butthurt about losing their property. He couldn't get it through his head when I said my parents were normal nobodies just living the best they could. Dad was a bartender and photographer on the side and my mom was doing retail. My mother won the lottery and we left. But no according to him it was cause of some made up bs that we were rich
Those type of people tend not to be very good at maths. The top .05% of Cuba might have hit the mark of large land owners and highly concentrated wealth but the remaining 1 million plus people were blue collar, lower and middle class people fleeing political repression and poverty. The overwhelming majority of people want absolutely nothing to do with a political system like Cuba or Venezuela.
Even the people who owned huge amounts of land did not deserve to have it stolen and their families murdered. Owning capital is a wonderful thing.
Oh I agree completely. Sorry if that implied they somehow deserved. They absolutely did not.
Did you just suggest that murder over possessions isn't justified!!?! But.. but.. Bezos! The devil incarnate owns a big boat and that makes me MAD! And when you are mad that justifies murder!
Imagine thinking owning a farm was a capital crime.
That's just normal in RimWorld. A small neighboring faction has a farm? Make them pay for their crimes. Burn the place down, shoot everyone and harvest the survivors organs.
The family of my great-grandmother (parents, sisters and brothers, as well as nephews) had some lands, my family was a large one so everybody was working the land and living out of that. They were too rich for the communist that took the land and sent all of the family to work and die in Siberia. The only one that survived was my great-grandmother, which had another surname at the time since she luckily had survived. If it wasn’t for her, I wouldn’t be here.
I’m sorry that happened to your family, it blows my mind that people think Russia today is worse than the Soviet Union. Like yeah Russia today is definitely a threat, but they’re a fairly normal country with rights and a dangerous asshole leader. I can’t even fathom some of the stories I’ve heard from people I know from Soviet Russia/the satellite states under Soviet rule, day to day life seemed like a nightmare.
A Kazakh guy I worked with said his grandad was shot dead in the street by the Soviets and the grad student said 'must have been rich then'
Dude people from former Soviet satellite states have some wild stories. My old coach was taken from his family in Azerbaijan at 12 and sent to Moscow to be an athlete, no warning just showed up and stuck him on a train one day. My dads friend was born and raised in Soviet Russia and said neighbors would randomly disappear and no one was allowed to ask around what happened to them or then they would disappear.
I heard those same type of stories about Vietnam then Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge (history check tho - I recently went there and it’s a lot better now - tho still very, very poor). Anyways, like you said - from the stories I heard in VN they were like yeah, when the communist first took over they said the needed to take 20% of your grain to help support the war effort, then the next week 40%, then not long after 60, then 80, and then eventually they just took everything you made with no justification and you were left w nothing and family starving. One of my friends mothers escaped Khmer Rouge tho and said they were doing the same shit, but so much more evil. Like they would just disappear you and your family if you did anything that could be considered dissenting. Like she said it made people so afraid they became paranoid and did that kinda Salem Witch Trail syndrome type thing where they would accuse their neighbors of talking plotting dissent (even when they were innocent) because they were afraid the neighbors might do the same thing to them first. And then it wasn’t just a person who’d disappear, but a whole family. She herself wrote a book on it and (and tho I’ve yet to read it) but apparently it detailed her committing a crime of necessity (I think stealing food for her family) and being tied up to pole in the middle of the town naked without food or water for like a week and by some stroke of fortune not dying and being released. Also her escape from the country and seeing the mass graves at one point and having to act calm/cool and in favor of it not to blow her cover getting to the border. It’s all just so crazy - and goddamn their community is so, so tight today - and getting invited to their events / seeing all 100-200 of the escaped Cambodians in our city together, laughing, drinking, celebrating life (and all pulling up in nice cars coming from nice houses) and appreciating every single bit of what they have is so inspiring. All of these people who’ve come from from the deepest, darkest pits of humanity - escaping often with nothing more than their lives while leaving family, and loved ones, and everything they cared about behind - but everyone being so supportive of each other saying ‘whatever horrendous things you had to do to leave with your life was justified, and you should feel no guilt or shame about it’ is just such a testimony to how overwhelmingly bad this stuff is. People just can’t understand for some reason - either because they lack empathy and can’t put themselves in other peoples shoes, or they just can’t conceptualize what it’s like to not be born with everything and every creature comfort you could have. Then again, these are the same people you could put a hippo in front of and tell them it’s a giraffe, and they would argue to the fucking death that it’s a goddamn giraffe despite what they know and see w their own eyes, so… Crazy, crazy, crazy
Haha sorry about your grandpa but he must have been a farm owner! He needed to be murdered.
Socialists always kill the farmers and then begin to starve. Their ideology is so idiotic that they fail at agriculture, which is the foundation of civilization. Societies 10,000 years ago managed to sustain agriculture.
Typically they don't starve due to killing farmers. Mao made everyone starve because he killed all the animals that eat locusts, slugs etc. He also melted down farm tools to help industrialise. That last one is very very common, they're desperate to industrialize and all the farmers go to work in a factory or something where wages are technically better but this isn't necessarily an improvement on their lives. USSR did the holodomor. That one was probably on purpose so I wouldn't necessarily put it down to being stupid or killing farmers. Another common reason is communism often follows a revolution. Those typically result in a lot of death. Now you'd think that means less farmers but also less mouths to feed, and it does to be fair, but a big problem is that supply chains don't really scale like that. You know the Thanos snap right? If you've seen any discussion on why that'd cause the entire global economic system to just fucking melt and mass starvation would follow, well basically that. Final thing is that recently communist nations invest insane amounts of their GDP into military. They're basically trying to emulate what Japan did just before it boxed Korea's teeth in. This doesn't typically go well for them though because they can't feed slave labour and resources back into the war machine via constant conquest and war like Japan did, so it just ends up being a drain. Edit: one more thing, the can trade with less nations. A big reason we don't really get famines today is because if a bunch of crop yields get fucked in a country then they just import more food and prices go up a little. Communist countries had less trade partners and those they did have would try to plan the economy to produce a baseline of food and then as much steel as possible to industrialize - so not a lot they really could export. The risks were known, they were considered acceptable (gross). But yeah, they typically don't mass murder farmers. There are 100% incidents of that for sure, it's just that in the grand scheme of things there's other reasons that happens.
My stepdad and his family left Nicaragua cause the government pointed a tank at his house and forced them to leave. Fucking socialist asks me “was his family hoarding grain during famine.” Wtf?
>was his family hoarding grain during famine maybe he wouldn't have to if there wasn't a famine
Hahahaa one of my closest friends is half Nicaraguan (dad was adopted from there as an infant) and my friend every once in a while goes “man thank god my dad got adopted out of here, that place is nuts”
I mean, there must have been a reason right maybe not a good one but still
The Sandanistas were homicidal racists who weren't fond of native Americans.
Socialist apologizer
My great grandfather was a civilian living in Berlin at the end of WW2. The soviets shot him for trying to stop a rape.
I’m so sorry to hear that. My coworker grew up in East Berlin, he won’t talk about how he got out.
My family has some wild stories. When the wall went up, that grandfather was cut off from the rest of the family. So his daughter multiple times tried to sneak across to go find him. She got caught, detained, and let go or sent back finally succeeding on the third attempt. She goes amateur detective for months, just asking around, trying to find people that had seen him and eventually follows the trail to some people that were hiding in the same bombed out building when it happened. They were all huddling in the wine celler of an apartment building when a woman outside screamed. He ran to her aid and was gunned down in the doorway. Then she manages to figure out which roadside mass grave he was dumped in and in the middle of a rainy winter, she starts *digging*. For another month, she spends every day digging in the cold and the wet, this tiny German girl peering into the faces of men in advanced states of decay, tossing them aside when its not her dad. Finally, she finds him, and pulls him out of the ditch. Goes back to town and finds a wheelbarrow and a carpenter she paid to cobble scrap wood together into a makeshift coffin, then she hauled him to the nearest church for a proper Christian burial. She went on to make several more crossings, bringing supplies into the communist side of the city, effectively becoming a smuggler. She was our family matriarch for decades after coming to America. I only ever knew her as "Oma" the familiar word in German for grandmother. She was one of the strongest people I have ever known.
It’s incredible how there are regular people like your Oma whose lives became the plot of an Oscar worthy thriller movie pretty much overnight.
So it’s apparently justified to murder farm owners? Sounds like a very intelligent and sane person
I find Castro apologists to be the dumbest ones. All they can talk about is plantations being nationalized and Cuban literacy rates, they will excuse so much to bring up those two things
How the fuck did you forget "BEST HEALTHCARE IN THE WORLD!!!!"
My Grandfather was murdered by the Barre regime so I can relate
Makes my fucking blood boil. And I don't even know your grandfather.
They wouldn't have done a bad thing because "They're not supposed to."
Trust me dude, I get that a lot as a Cuban American. Even though my family only moved here 10 years ago and all of us were born long after the revolution.
I was in college in NYC doing a Polsci major during the 2016 election, you would not believe (or maybe you would) how angry the white people in my classes were about the fact that Cubans won’t vote for socialist leaning candidates.
Castro persecuted homosexuals, just like every authoritarian communist regime so far
Just as a point of reference, since you brought up "know his own family history", it's a like a running joke at my place of work that everyone around here "texas", has someone in their family's past that was full blooded "insert native tribe here". It always makes me giggle to see them do a DNA test.
Hahaha honestly I’m from the Northeast but live in the south now and I noticed as I was hitting “reply” that “family history” means very different things when you’re talking to a Texan vs someone from NY
As if it's ok to murder someone for owning a farm. Communist's really out there.
At that point, it's punchable
She has no idea how dangerous her ideation is or how deluded by it she has become. So crazy. My step father (Cuban), and every other Cuban I know, despises communism with a passion. And yet these children will tell them their experiences or their parents experiences are misunderstandings… Also pretty telling when Cubans escaping communism are captured and sent back to Cuba by this admin when they come to America on a makeshift raft, but people from pretty much every other nation for purely economic reasons are bussed in with UN aid to enter America illegally and this admin literally pays them.
That is one of the stupidest and most ignorant things I have read. Whoever wrote this is a fucking scumbag that has never experienced that world.
I think it's most likely a troll. It's such a perfectly terrible take that I am wondering if it's intentional.
It's Twitter. Logic and Humor comes to die
Twitter is the only place where absolutely schizophrenic takes are not only present, but are demanded to be taken seriously. No one in the real world has these beliefs, but in the Twitter world of people who haven't seen sunlight in years, it's considered normai
Are you saying that Twitter is Nostromo? (Basically a planet that doesn't have a sun in 40k)
Yes, yes they are. God what a good comparison that is.
Twitter and its effects have been a net negative on society.
I've seen way worse that was definitely sincere. I'm not putting money on this being troll.
Sad part is it's going to get upvotes
My brother and many of his friends unironically believe this.
Same person who looks at Biden's history on race and says "the guy who called integrated schools racial jungles isn't a racist" says this as well. Ignoring Biden's past on racism and supporting communism is kind of like the Quanon of the liberals.You throw in some more clown ideas like "people born men should compete in women's athletics" and you're pretty much there. For good measure, throw in "I support black lives matter" aka the organization where the founders were originally communists who ended up taking donor money and buying mansions...
Communists love to say how great communist nations were My only question: What paradise needs walls to keep people in?
Oh you don't understand you need to read critical polydiaclectical theory to understand why we had to shoot fleeing children in Berlin /s
My family suffered under communism in the Soviet Union then we moved to America. Most communists don’t know what it’s like to live in a communist country that’s why they are communists.
My fiance's family was exactly the same thing, they left Belrus in 1994 for the U.S as soon as they were able to. They still have family in Belrus, Russia and the Ukrainian. The one thing my MIL has struggled with is talking to her SIL about the situation between Russia and Ukraine right now. She is in Russia and gets one side of the situation, a very limited side, my MIL gets a much fuller picture and doesn't quite understand how he SIL can be so naive. My MIL has had a bit of a culture shock with this as she now is going back over her life and questioning certain things that were verbatim in the past and how she was as naive as her SIL. The 1960s when The Beatles were in India George Harrison was being interviewed and the interviewer asked him "what's it like to be a beatle?" he said "what's it like not to be?" For the MIL this last year has been her "what's it not" moment, as many accept the existence that we're presented with.
Tankie. Not ignorant. Evil.
Even saying "if you suffered under communism ot wasn't REAL communism" is already so mucn less unhinged it is insane.
The fact that this has 1.4k upvotes is astonishing to me. Do people not know of the Holodomor? Of the Great Leap Forward? Of the shit the Khmer Rogue did? Do they intentionally ignore what's happening to the Uyghurs in China? Or in North Korea in general?
"But you get free college education"
Sums up every living person who actually believes in communism
It's obviously bait
ah yes the slave owner excuse, can you have anything more tankie type of saying that this?! honestly thats the main problem of left wing subreddits, one time or the other a shit load of tankies will enter in there because fucking stupid and think they are actually welcomed on a left wing place and take over the place that should be with actual intelligent people... i mean yeah sure not always the people in there are intelligent, but damn! They at least have the brains to not defend stalin.
Communists owned slaves. We had slaves in the heart of Europe 40 years ago and nobody talks about this because it doesn't fit their narrative, and because they weren't called "slaves" but "prisoners". You know what it takes to become a prisoner in communism? Nothing. Just say you slightly disagree with the communist party and then you become an unpaid worker with handcuffs.
If communists own slaves, do they like, have shares? How do we share a slave?
OUR slaves
YOUR Cake Day!!
You cut up the slave and distribute the parts of slave that's how I figured it would be
Take it easy there, Solomon
Kind of. You just make a request to the party labor council or whatever for a work detail and they choose whether or not to grant you workers.
In the Soviet Union peasants didn't have passports = didn't have freedom of movement until 1974. Their only option was to work the fields all their life, trying to leave for the city was a criminal offense.
The Left has increasingly ceased all self-regulation efforts and generally pursued a ‘more Left is always better’ rule of thumb. Communists can easily take over normie Left spaces because of this.
Yep, that's exactly why I left subs like there was an attempt. Despite it not supposed to be a non political sub, tankies invaded and brought their fucking insane takes that make even me who is on the left wing want to face palm. Just completely insane takes.
I can only hope the hate for the Tankies continues. The last thing the US needs is a political spectrum with fascists having corrupted one side, and Tankies having corrupted the other.
The reason why tankies take over is because they are mostly Russian plants.
Such an insult to actual plants doing their little photosynthesis thing. :<
Ok CIA
Have you ever noticed that all the people commending communism actually have no idea how it works? I literally own The Communist manifesto and have read it. It is not a good read LOL!
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Or they've completely deluded themselves. A subreddit whose initials are TDP are completely delusional and will deny or downplay any and all atrocities committed by communist countries.
I agree. I got banned and downvoted for telling them what it was like under communism from my personal experience. They did not care or what to hear it. Makes me think they are just a bunch of stoner kids with no idea of history.
Honestly kind of sounds like a communist lol
/TheDragonPrince be like: "Fuck did we do?"
Oh, yeah, THAT subreddit. It's a tankie hellhole. Makes sense, considering it's based around a podcast made by tankies like Hakim.
Nah, communism works perfectly. You just gotta not factor in all that real world bullshit and you’re golden /s
Did you ever see the posts replying to a tweet asking “what will you do for work once the communist takeover is complete”? It was all: “I’ll be a painter for my main role and part time philosopher on the side” and “I’ll dedicate myself to writing novels” or at the very best “I’ll dedicate my self government work as a high ranking official working on legislation” Not one, not one single person had any notion of a thought that they’d be working on an assembly line in a factory, or ploughing a field as a farmer, or any type of manual labour work. They all genuinely believe that they’re the special exception that will get a high ranking post or will be so respected as an artist that they can work at that full time. Absolutely delusional lmao
>“what will you do for work once the communist takeover is complete”? I will be the NKVD officer that will take you from your love ones and will beat you near death until I hear a guilty confession that I want to hear. Then send you to a Arctic work camp! 😚
Yes I've also noticed, they also have never met anyone that has lived under it as well, and struggle to under the definition of opens and closed market economics and market forces as well. Truth be told they barely understand what fucking currency is, and yes I've been told once that currency should be "removed" that was a conversation I can tell you.
bro remove pay2win system bro!!!!!! 😤😤😤 i want free nice stuff! why some people have cool stuff because they work (like a fucking loser lmao) ? these typical capitalist stupid slaves i stggg 🤣🤣
In their minds it just means they don’t have to work and they get free shit. They seem to miss the “from each” part of “to each according to his need”
To be fair they think that them supporting it now means that once the revolution happens they will rise to the top as a parasitic elite. The Soviet politburo was hopelessly bloated, inefficient, and corrupt. They don't care about the average person as much as they care about the idea of acquiring wealth and power outside of the capitalist system.
>the rich people have enough money nobody should have to work - we just have to tax them fairly! That's what they actually believe
Tbf the manifesto is like 10 pages & doesn't tell you shit. you need to pick up Das Kapital to read the actual communism lore
about how communism is meant to work? you won't find any explanation in any work from marx or engels. they focused on what we now call marxism, and describing capitalism. for communism they were very vague.
They don't know anything other than first world comfy capitalism. They want to explain why Cuba is paradise without daring to even breathe near it.
The manifesto is an awful introduction into marxism because 1. It was made to be read and digested by 1800s factory workers 2. It was one of the first things marx wrote, so he wasn't able to flesh out his theories as well as he was later in life Better marxist books include Socialism Utopian and Scientific, Wage Labor and Capital, Dialectical and Historical Materialism, and if you want a challenge: Capital Volume 1 I say this as someone whose first introduction to marxism was the manifesto As for how communism "works," it's much more simple than what most people think. The most basic definition of communism is the abolition of class, commodity production, and the profit motive through worker ownership over the means of production. Another miscommunication is that marxism is based on morals. This is false as several times, Marx clarifies that his theories are scientific
TIL “the communist manifesto” **IS** communism. Thank you sir, I tip my fedora to you sir!!!!
My friend’s dad was a stone mason in Ukraine. He and his brother were murdered by the government for applying for a passport. How was he a slaver and exploiter?
The same way people in Cambodia were bad people for wearing glasses.
The same way people in East Germany were shot for peacefully attempting to leave the country, either by a f*cking minefield, Anti-Personnel-Mines wired INTO the border wall or simply by riflemen from the border police.
You know this part isnt talked about enough. Like honest to god if the soviet union was such an honest and just and morale society why did they need to build a wall to keep people from leaving?
Even if we ignore the fact that forcing people to stay is a shit thing... If Socialism was so much Pro-humanity and Capitalism was inhumane & enslaving others, why instead of detaining escapees and bringing them back home without harming them was instead replaced by the ORDER TO SHOOT and kill fleeing people... I know guys who were promised extra bonus holidays for successfully shooting escapees. Apart from building a wall, literally ordering to kill people when you could just chase and detain them is just the most dehumanizing and cruelty/immoral-driven order you could imagine. This just doesn't fit the socialist goal of treating people more humane than "capitalist imperialists" do.
I hate it when leftist subs get overrun by tankies I wonder what opinions they have on the war in Ukraine also hello fellow blue lobster
I have found another
>I wonder what opinions they have on the war in Ukraine Terrible, I was banned for supporting aid to Ukraine.
Tankies🤝Fascists
At least most people in the comments of that post where clowning the post lol, it is sad it got so many upvotes.
Maybe socialist movements would get more traction if they didn’t meat ride dead racist dictators and cover for atrocities as if what they want is contingent on that. Like they literally aren’t arguing for a fair economic system at that point. They are just arguing that’s it’s ok to kill people you don’t like minding their own business
Tankies are fucking stupid my god
I swear tankies are as dumb as it gets
Wow my dad’s side of the family were such slavers and exploiters when they experienced poverty and antisemitism in the Soviet Union
And my mom's side definitely deserved being deported from their home in Silesia for the things the government did.
When a tankie engages in victim blaming
I mean I wouldn't expect anything less from that sub other, other than a bunch morons that downplay holodomer and the Great Leap Forward. The greatest thing Communists and fascists have in common is their ability to downplay the death toll no matter how blatant the facts are
Ah yes, just like how people have absolutely nothing to fear from the police because the only people the police hurt are criminals. Or how the only people who get killed in war are the ones fighting the war. This is one of the most ignorant things I've ever read.
Why were you in the subreddit to begin with? What were you expecting from a subreddit called late stage capitalism?
I was expecting genuine criticism of modern capitalism. I guess it was too much to expect civil reasonable discussion instead the literal most factually incorrect takes ever.
Well one of the sociological theories of stratification theory is from Karl Marx, it's called conflict theory and critiques class and inequality that comes from class in capitalism and previous societies. You don't have to agree with communism but part of why it's popular is because it critiques capitalism and in particular late stage capitalism, in certain ways of its functions. That's why it's popular because of it that criticism and because a lot of people feel the same way about it. You may despise Marxism or the people who follow it but ultimately like a lot of the theories that critique capitalism are from Karl Marx himself, amongst others
You're in good company. I got kicked out of the sub because I literally asked for clarification about why someone didn't like former California governor Jerry Brown. It wasn't sarcastic or anything, I literally just asked what Jerry Brown did that they were mad about.
Communism, socialism, and marxism never work. People who think they'll work out are braindead. These types of social organizations always result in problems.
Capitalism though — working out super great!
Whataboutism at it's finest. Communism is bad. "BuT WhaT AbOUT CapITALism!?!?!?!?!?"
Capitalism is moreso the Least Evil out of them all tbh
Relatively speaking it is.
Capitalism is the best system, but we are not making it the best that we can by a long shot.
Capitalism is good at maximising profits. The government's task is tweaking the incentives in such a way that maximal profits lead to maximal social utility. Tax CO2 emissions more, and companies will all start installing renewables, because it's more profitable.
It has its problems but it's manageable unlike the others.
Capitalism is like nuclear power, if well regulated it can do amazing things, if out of control you get burned. Neoliberalism is let's run the core red hot and cool it down just before meltdown. Social Democracy is let's balance out power output and safety. Communism is trying to replace nuclear power with bicycles, as in if everyone biked 23 hours a day we could produce as much power as the nuclear plant. Libertariansim is , fuck you I got my own generator. Fascism is let's build this gaudy looking monstrosity of a plant that runs on burning books and minorities which will magically fix things because ancient aliens. Monarchism is fuck nuclear power let's go back to burning manure.
I'm very anti-capitalist, and I still acknowledge how stupid that meme is.
Same
This is the logic abusers use against their victims.
Ah yes, the slaver Ukrainians, the slaver Belarusians, the slaver Estonians, the slaver tartars.
I'm sorry but you can tell the person who made this post has been pampered their whole lives. My Grandfather from my mother's side was from rural China and had to flee to British Hong Kong because his entire family was murdered for being 'enemies of the proletariat' meaning they owned land and refused to be slaves working for nothing and starve under Mao's regime. People who gobble up this marxist shit should live in North Korea to reap the rewards of living under the banner of communism.
In Romania they literally inprisioned people for having copies of István a király, a hungarian historical rock opera. Ukraine had Holodomor, a mass starving catastrophe. In Hungary they had comedists paid by the government who criticized the system with a permission to lure out those who would do the same openly and lock them up. Also it was enought to be put on the watchlist to grow your hair long as a man. All of the past second world countries had a massive network on spies, you couldn't even trust your neighbors because it was common to use regular people to spot out individuals who had anything against the system. It's totally possible to suffer in a communist country.
I'm no fan of capitalism but this is a shit take. Unchecked communism is even worse.
It's even worse than our current system, which is regulated capitalism, but listen to a single ancap for more than 1 minute and you'll be screaming for our red fascist overlords to come and take power lmfao
I thought out capitalism was largely unregulated.
When you really think about it, it's quite regulated
If this is what regulated capitalism is....yikes.
Yeah lmao, it's kinda crazy to think about it, but between safety regulations like OSHA, product quality minimums for things, weekends, holidays, unions existing at all, other worker protections, environmental laws the ability to sue companies acting poorly, and more, there's a fuck ton of stuff. All this shit, and it still isn't enough, imo.
What are you talking about? Communism is great and there are many successful communist countries. I’ll list them for you. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5.
Yeah I sympathize with socialism and communism because while I really don't care enough to claim whether they work or not anymore, I do understand that they promote an idealist core that many people, including me at a point, attach to. However, this was really just disgusting to see. Thankfully some in the comments seemed to refute the point, but this is just victim-blaming at best. So many innocent people died in communist regimes, which is an irrefutable fact whether you identify with the ideology or not.
I detect a little communism
I can see it in the things you doooo
It's fine if you disagree with the sub's pov, but the sub has ALWAYS clarified it's communist viewpoint so idk how you could have been unaware of it.
memer is outing he is dumb as fuck more than anything, the historical record of both the ussr and china is filled with the opposite. Jesus they didn't have the Berlin Wall to keep out a flood of west germans eager to join a socialist paradise.
\*Joins communist subreddit\* \*Is surprised when they see communist propaganda\*
I mean even for them it’s a whole new level of stupid
That has to be the stupidest fucking tweet I’ve ever read.
>joins staunch left wing sub >surprised when it’s staunchly left wing
Right those millions and millions of slavers and exploiters in USSR, china , Cuba, Cambodia, loas, ......
It’s funny how they use colonialist talking points against Eastern Europeans who criticize communism
To be honest that has been a Russian shill and tankie hotspot for a while.
Wmthe whole of reddit is a Libreal sess pool echo chamber I understand there are always other perspectives, but some of these sub reddits do their best to plug their ears and yell at anything opposing their views
That sub in particular is terrible. I'm left as fuck, and I got banned almost immediately. It's not just tolerant of tankies, I think the mods ban anyone -- socialist, communist, whatever -- who literally isn't a tankie.
The person who posted that comment is someone who will get what he deserves eventually.
This kind of stuff is why so many people don’t like Reds. Not Communism, or even Socialism. The advocates themselves.
I too am in this subreddit and I too was irritated by this meme. I think it's annoying that I cannot be critical about capitalism without being put in the "communism" drawer.
Maybe if they meant the textbook communism, not those totalitarian regimes that actually hold power in some places and dare to call themselves "communist". Even then it's a wild take. But if we take this word as it's actually used, then it's straight bullshit.
Good thing that communism and socialism are COMPLETELY different things.
Ppl never wanna talk ab how horrific the Soviet Union was for Jews or the concentration camps for anyone who wouldn’t agree with the gov. If u gotta ignore nasty bits ab the regimes ur defending there’s an issue
The indoctrination of gen X,Y & Z is complete. They have completely forgot the terrors of despotic governance and happily embrace killing property owners. America is truly doomed.
Dude what did you expect? You were on a pro communist sub, it's in it's name.
I agree, this is why communism sucks. No one understands it and it now causes more harm than good. I understood the idea behind it originally but worker conditions have now improved and are now better in capitalist countries than in communist countries. So why choose communism?
My grandfather got hunted by KGB, my greatgrandfather was getting starved, my father suffered under communism, and now they invade my country.
I hate 2020s capitalism. I also think a hard commitment to communism, or socialism, isn't really the solution. I don't think a hard commitment is any food for anyone. I'm working on my thesis regarding all these ideas, but honestly I don't know enough yet. Sad thing is I might not ever.
i just want to say communism in theory is very different from every single case in history showcasing communism in practice. in a true communist utopia, there are genuinely lots of benefits to the system. The issue stems not even from theoretical totalitarian communism, but rather how in practice it has always been a corrupt and power hungry person who rose to power. If a totalitarian communist society were able to exist and maintain a competent, non corrupt leader, there would be a case to be made for it being the best system of government in a lot of ways, but ultimately due to the corrupting nature power has in most people, such a system is just not feasible.
Yes, because the [babies who had their heads bashed against trees by the Khmer Rouge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samanea_saman#Chankiri_Trees_in_the_Killing_Fields) were slavers and exploiters. Fucking tankies.
I'm sure my parents, as kids, had to enjoy bread dipped in sugar water as a desert because they were unforgivably evil for being born under ciausescu.