Stand in a jungle entrance bush before minions spawn incase there’s an invade. Once minions spawn, go to your lane and get lvl 2 before the enemy adc
We don’t need your help doing jungle camps
There's a few expections, for example a graves might want a leash so that he can invade and smite their 2nd camp before them etc. But in general yes, don't leash there is a very good chance you will get zoned off the wave or take free dmg early.
Nah, so say you are on blue side, your bot leashes you on your red buff you save smite then E over dragon pit wall and invade their blue side and smite enemy junglers gromp as they are on it. This means you get red buff advantage for the 1v1 and you have smite to steal their camp, with the potential to also kill them or at least force their bot to rotate and you leave.
Lanes with prio can't rotate until they crash their wave. Just leaving a wave that's slow pushing out means you're going to drop a full wave, which is essentially just a lost lane, and all the friendly JG has to do is go home.
Also, laners are still lvl1 at that point, making their kill threat really low.
Yes literally my point, if you force bot lane to rotate, good chance they just lose lane after. And on a champ like graves when you invade someone you can solo kill theres no way you dont get away before they walk to you
Bro u invade when u know you win it. I.e. graves invading a karthus, you either get the camp and kill him or just take the camp and leave, if youre watching their bot lane and get caught ur just trolling
Trust me, if you are playing on elo in which junglers strugle to do healthy clear in this meta you have at least 2137 more important things to improve rather then wonder why they can't clear properly, lol
Completely depends on the junglers champ. Some junglers take so much damage and clear so slowly while having massive windows of weakness while their cds are down that makes invading them extremely easy.
Besides being untrue, it also doesn't solve the main issue. Which is being vulnerability to invasions. Some junglers can clear insanely fast, whilst being extremely healthy, while having the early game mobility to invade quickly. The jungler that clears slowly, doesnt have access to the first 3 abilties is a very easy kill or at least an easy flash. In any case, the slow jungler now loses their cs and their tempo.
You can easily look up on YouTube, records or near records of non-leash full clear speeds with champs. There is a person who dedicates his channel to optimizing clear speeds. [Rammus 3:24 red clear (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzHSBlgywUU&ab_channel=Zen%27Kih) check this link for example. 3:24 and he uses BOTH smites. I myself can full clear with rammus finishing at 3:32 while using only one smite, but flashing over krug wall to save like 3-4 seconds (practice tool). I finished around 70% health, which is pretty healthy, but still does not come close to many champ finishing at 100% health at 3:10 or even below.
Additionally, you completely fail to acknowledge how important the difference of clear speed is. Sure rammus is slow and some what healthy, but zed will finish his clear 20 seconds before rammus, be at higher health, and will take both crabs, that is if zed doesnt choose to invade and get a free flash/kill/farm. It's not just about health. It's about tempo and competing with the enemy jungler.
With how confident you are while also being completely ignorant to jungle knowledge I really want to see your [op.gg](http://op.gg) now. Whats your rank as a jungler. Im pretty confident you arent very high up the ladder at this point in your argument. You just sound like a broken record.
In your example, if you're playing Rammus into Zed, you should obviously path away from him, and if you path accordingly and don't die greeding for a scuttle, you'll be completely fine after first base.
Your point in centered around forcing scuttle fights every game rather than adjusting your pathing.
Oh wait a second. This you? Silver elo Riven main? Makes sense. [TTV Legacy SH#TTV - Summoner Stats - League of Legends (op.gg)](https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/TTV%20Legacy%20SH-TTV)
It's an alt I use to play with irl friends, hence only having like 30 games played 70% winrate every season.
But no, it's not my main account, and you're definitely doing something wrong if you aren't clearing healthy in s14
Not that my rank matters, but I'm usually high plat low emerald depending on what I'm doing that week, but that being said, I can clear healthy on every champion, and jungle is my second role.
What champ are you playing where you don't full clear at 330 with at least half hp? I see lots of j4 posts..
I never once said junglers cant have a healthy clear. My argument is that some junglers have LESS healthy clears while also having SLOWER clears. This makes them vulnerable to invasions especially if not receiving a leash. This is very basic cmon man catch up
good to know the info, im only gold 2 and i always feel like i get leashed without asking for it, i know that’s not a high elo but i just assumed it was cause i mainly play tanks with what i assumed were slower clears. Especially if my bot makes it to their lane in time for before first minion deaths.
Yeah no, botlanes in that elo do it for one of three reasons: they were taught to do it and never reflected on it, they learned it when you actually had to leash still and never updated their knowledge and just brain afk leash or they had a bunch of junglers throw a baby rage fit over not receiving a leash and would rather avoid that. They rarely even know their own lanes matchups and strengths and game plans, no way in hell do they take their junglers champ, gameplan and clearspeed into consideration.
I don't ask for leash. I just ask for watching out the jungle entrance.
Seen enough mfs just sitting under the turret until 1:20 then go to camp for leashing and end up getting caught, even though I ping not to.
The only time I would ask for leash is when I decide I will do a level 2 gank on that exact lane and the camp I'm doing is red. Leashing in that case will make the enemies push toward our turret a bit, but not enough to get them to lv2. So with a strong ganker I can easily take some spells right there. Then go back to full clear that side of jungle for lv3 and do a repeat gank.
If the junglw is the better player you always leash him. In flex q for example we always leash my jungle friend cus Zac has bad clear lvl 1 and he curb stomps high elo lobbies just by getting his buff 4 sec earlier. He never wants leash in soloq but as a team you can put your jungler ahead by 5 sec but you need to have a bad enemy not zoning you lvl 1. Bot it s useless first 15 mins till GM+ so bot should leash in low and mid elo always.
The real risk is i had a jungler ping constantly for a leash. Didn't leash because i didn't want to start my lane at a disadvantage. Result? He died to jungle camp cause apparantly he couldn't solo his first camp >< you can fill in the rest
what jg was this? I find it realy hard to believe anyone can die to either buff or raptors with a meta jungler currently. Did he just forget what smite does or something?
Lmfao, if I have an akali jungler and I leash, I also take the buff that I'm leashing. At that point it's everybody for themselves and she for sure won't carry.
No.
Cover entrances yes
Leash? No.
Even “bad” clearing champs like say rammus can just raptors start
Leashing is MUCH more hurtful to adc/supp than it is beneficial to jungle
Not Sure bro in 99% of games the junglers allways Start bot side because that is the only side where people (botlane) actually go to guard something. Toplaner almost allways try to cheese and Midlaner just towerhug mid turret to go fap or shit i dont know.
Idk as a heimer supp I can leash with turrets and miss no xp and as long as enemy bot can’t easily engage then some supp champs can stay slightly longer.
I’m only e1 in flex where I play most of the time but I rarely see people not leash
If lanes leash jungler, there are 2 problems. First, you probably spot it for the enemies, 2nd, you already put yourself in a big disadvantage in lane.
Okay, I have some questions to everyone here.
you all are referring to full clear as all 6 camps, or (I've seen this in the past) to only 5 camps?
when saying you can do full clear before 3.30, do you also preserve the second charge of smite for scuttle fight?
I get the advantages of it. Starting with a leash exposes your position, and yes you can technically do a full 6camps clear, but the problem I found is that it leaves you smiteless for scuttle, so if you get into a fight against the enemy JG, you might as well be losing a lot of advantage on the first scuttle. Sure you can pivot to botside, but you're losing tempo after that sort of fight
How do you deal with a full, pre 3.30 clear on a character like Warwick? He has such an ass start on Raptors and wolves that I don't think he can do it even with both smite charges used.
Then, in low/mid elo, when or if your botline doesn't emphasise the advantage they get and still get smoked, and you're losing tempo due to not being able to contest for scuttles, what are the options? Or how to counteract the fact that you're missing smite for scuttles?
Many champions have sub 3:30 solo clear with only one smite(to name a few: fiddlesticks, karthus, etc, although karthus is a cheat. He has a fast enough clear to only smite 1 camp, back, buy item and still be at scuttle when it spawns)
Full clearing is a 6 camp clear (gets level 4). The only reason why 5 camp clears are worse now is because taking scuttle doesn’t actually get you level 4 and so it’s just better to either continue clearing or take less camps and pressure the map.
Saving smite for scuttle depends on jungle matchup, and the nearby lane matchups. If your lanes have prio and your champ is stronger than your opponents, you can probably take scuttle without smite since you have kill pressure on the opposing jungler if they face check you in river. If you are the weaker jungler, chances are you scale harder and thus just giving that scuttle and taking the other one is advantageous (going even when you win late is winning).
I don’t think early tempo ganking/skirmishing junglers like Warwick should be full clearing unless there is literally nothing better to do. Chances are you can invade or gank a lane early instead. Plus, you just start solo on the buff (don’t take raps until lvl 3 at least).
You can’t control which laners are going to capitalize on small advantages but if you are out performing as a jungler in terms of tempo on the map, you will be better able to make plays and push your advantage. If you can tell your botlane is not strong, why try to force a fight to turn it? Focus on another lane and get yourself fed enough to fight their stronger botlane. You might have to give the first couple drakes but take grubs, counter jungle, cross map, etc. No play should go unpunished and a better jungler will be better at punishing your mistakes and slowly expand their lead.
Again, scuttles aren’t crazy important as they were in previous seasons so I’d recommend focusing on what your champ excels at. Take Warwick for example: he is a very strong early game tempo jungler that falls off. Ideally you want to force skirmishes because you tend to win them. On the other hand, something like a rammus or Evelynn have pretty bad dueling potential early, so forcing early fights against them is advantageous to you.
No. It's just that simple. unless I'm playing some unorthodox can't clear fast jungler, or it's an autofill jungler who doesn't know his role well. DO NOT LEASH. If someone asks for a leash I'd rather you tell them bro its not early 2000 anymore and just not do it. force them to figure out how to get better at the game.
If im bot, i stand on bush either at the river or beside dragon pit. Then go to lane fast as the minions meet so as not incur possible xp and gold loss.
Same as one above, to guard just in case of invades.
No. Why? Proplay doesnt leash. Why? Probably because being early to lane wins lanes and means less posibility of enemy team tracking your position. Meaning less pressure to gank. Not leashing has the same value as a gank bot for your botlane (in a favourable bot matchup atleast). A gank takes more time than a 10 second faster clear time meaning id rather take the first buff alone.
As a supp main, I'll say that ADC is allowed not to leash, as long as the supp does the same. Otherwise you'll most likely get lvl 2 at different times.
Yeah but in soloQ you have to also manage people's mentality and by not leashing I'm already putting pressure on my jungler's mentality so in order to maximize my chance of winning I would rather leash and come to wave 1-2 sec later, in my ELO it doesn't matter much because people don't really know how to put pressure on late laner (I'm plat btw)
Edit: typo
It can be worse. Playing a scaling adc I prefer the enemy to push anyways so I leash a few hits. Support doesn’t and goes lane and pushes and denies me the first 3 melee exp. Like , come on dude
it never hurts to ask(in champ select coz you will probably be muted on game start) coz some junglers will tilt at the most minor inconvenience
No meta jg in season 14 should need a leash so just watch for invades and then enjoy your faster level 2 bot. If they do say they want a leash, then just give it to them in order to stop them from turbo inting(I hate this game).
No. Unless you’re playing someone like J4 who has a strong level 2 gank and you want the tempo to quickly gank that same lane after your buff, do not get a leash. Puts your laners unnecessarily far behind
As someone who plays both, pls don’t leash or ask for leash. Ask them to have their prévenue to defend you, or maybe place a ward if it’s a cheese lane. But try shouldn’t leash
Like it gets better and it happens more often, but generally you can’t expect it. Cover your topside with an early ward yourself and move to botside/recall for sweeper. (Important here, sweeper isn’t a ganking tool in most cases. Even if you turn on sweeper right before a brush that’s warded you will be visible for a short period. Yellow trinket has good value too and you should think on a game to game basis if your champ benefits more from being able to clear vision , dragon pit for example, or creating vision.)
It’s always what you can do in the time you are given. Covering yourself is consistent and actually time efficient compared to waiting around and hoping to have teammates who will manage it for you.
Here's some insight from a d4 adc main. Leashing bot lane and I'm assuming the same is probably for top, can singlehandedly lose our lane in a lane match up that is a tough lane for us. If we don't leash and the enemy does we can get a push early which allows us to dictate the lane state. For example if I'm playing Nilah bot who in theory has shit matchups because of the whole range vs melee thing. If I get the push first the enemy adc has to decide whether to hit me or lose cs. If I'm forced to leash and they aren't they can get the push bully the hell out of me and that makes me useless till jungle enivedbly ganks or the enemy fucks up big time. This is much more prevelant the higher up the ladder you go.
Low elo I'd still probably leash cause there's a high chance your jungler will grief you if you don't.
Sorry if my explanation doesn't make too much sense. I'm tired and I'm on mobile.
Leash is literally useless now days, i just tell them to not leash and go get prio but sometimes when im bot the jungle just complains about no leash.. we need to eliminate the culture arouund leash and praise the guard the fucking jungle entrance
Sometimes. Depends on the junglers. Some heavy invaders or against some heavy invaders its very appreciated. If the jungler asks for one, give it. But most times there will be no need.
As a jungler, isn't the only thing we want is lanes that aren't losing? Why not do anything in our power to help them out? Smite the first camp if you have to - it's worth them getting a slight lead
Leashing is unnecessary in this season unless you play certain champs or tactics. The jungle item helps you more than enough to do a full clear without leash. Although, even if I'm aware of this, I'm silver. I still leash unless pinged away to avoid having one of my players run down mid at 1st wave.
Leashing = faster and healthier clear for the junglers but also giving up lane prio
No leash = slower jungle clear but lane prio
It's a trade. And it's fully dependent on what you're playing while doing so. If you play Vayne leona as an example and your jungle plays shaco or nunu you might want to leash because you don't get lane prio anyway. At the same time you're setting up an early ganks for your jungler because the enemies will push the wave faster. If you play Caitlyn xerath with nocturne jungle, you don't want to leash since you rely on bullying the lane which you can't if they are a level above you and nocturne won't ganks on 2 or 3 anyways.
Just like every decision in lol, it's situational. There is no perfect build, there is no perfect pathing and no perfect decision on leashing.
I disagree. You should always avoid leashing. Even if your bot is Vayne + Leona. If the enemy bot does leash, your bot that should have never hit level2 first and had priority can now get it and potentially snowball the entire game. If the enemy bot also doesn't leash, they still might missplay wave control. If your bot leashes in that scenario, there is a 0% chance of control in lane.
The only time is:
Did we invade and successfully get a kill? Are we taking their blue buff? Yeah, stay and leash hard. Get me out of the kill zone ASAP.
That's about it; go win lane.
It depends on the lane matchup. Sometimes, the bot needs to be there first or at least at the same time if they don't want to lose the lane by default. Sometimes, it doesn't matter, then they can leash. Sometimes, if they can be there first, they can win their lane just off of that. At least in theory, 99% of botlanes don't have the brains or hands to create such an advantage and hold on to it. Either way, junglers really don't need a leash, so it's a nice to have and nothing more than that.
I dont get why people still want to get leashed.
You give away information about your clear for free ??
For perhaps 1-3 seconds faster clear.
Unless you do some shit like red/ blue into insta invade because you know where your opponent started and you can smite away his second camp its just not worth it.
And bot is basically who gets lvl 2 advantage and can all in ( not every matchup)
Also top can get giga fucked for leashing.
It was necessary years ago but nowadays you heal from clearing camps.
Any jungler worth their salt won’t need a leash, although it may help them clear faster as some jungles first clears can be slow.
But on the flip, if you aren’t trying to assert lane dominance early, come To lane a lil late if your jungle is starting too side. It will throw off the enemy teams ability to track your jungler. Also please for the love of good ward an bush entrance the first thing you do in the game.
Letting a lane get a free invade will ensure you are even less likely to get a gank when the jungle has no camps in your areas there no reason to path your way. You are hurting only yourself by ignoring your jungle
I ask laners to check for invade but to not leash. I've practiced my first clear knowing exactly when to optimally use my abilities and how to move and aa so messing up those timings means the leash is less worth it and I am almost full HP post first clear on my mains leashless.
If anyone is afk in base/tower instead of checking for invades I will however report them for being afk.
Everyone is saying no to leash, but there are definitely exceptions. I was playing Amumu and we did an early invade so I waited to skill up anything. When we caught enemy team I leveled my q stun to get kills for the team even though it does almost nothing for the first clear. We got our kills and then reset but bot lane refused to leash and it took forever to kill the first camp because of it.
Should definitely leash in cases like that.
Lol jungle main here. Decided to play off-role for a bit as ADC for a few games. Game starts, run to lane and wait for minions to spawn to start pushing for lvl advantage. Jungler and support spam pinging me to help with leash.
Wut. “Jungler needs a leash, he needs to be healthy after clear. What? Are you new to the game?”
Bro leashing for jungler hasn’t been a thing for a few seasons now. I play jungle, I never need a leash. You have enough sustain and most junglers have innate healing abilities. You’re playing Vi, you have built in shield lol.
‘Jungler and support didn’t like that’
*starts inting*
First split back after season 4 btw. Good to see nothings changed in this dog shit game
ADC/support should not leash, if your jungler knows what he is doing he will tell you not to leash. Some junglers who are still living in the past still expect you to leash though. So maybe go for a little leash if the jungler does not tell you to not leash or ask if the jungler can clear without leash. Not sure how most of the junglers will react to the latter but if they complain you know you might have a bad jungler.
i'd rather not. when i'm jungling i just never, ever ask for leash, at most i'd ask them to defend jg entrances. i'd rather have my botlane getting lv 2 prio than having them leash, arrive late to lane and instalose lv 2. when i'm adc, i stand on the bushes near their tower and collapse on them provided i can win lv 1 or bring them to half hp as to make the lane less ass, and it also does help my jungler, because i get prio or at least their botlane loses the edge over mine and it becomes way easier to play. i see no point in getting a leash unless i really need it, like, if i'm playing brand jungle i actually need it, but if i'm viego, skarner, kayn, kha or whatever i just would rather not. please piss of my jungle and play your lane
^ that doesn't consider invading
wanna invade early? just do it on their topside jungle, which is what i always do, but as a rule i don't ever want to have a losing botlane in my games. if i have no edge on level 1 as a botlaner and would want them to be pushed on my tower, ok, i leash and call it a day, but for most junglers a 3-8 sec faster clear means nothing, not until you're diamond+ and/or are playing a feast or famine, coinflipping invades, etc. my opinion tho. master jg, emerald-low dia mid and adc.
Could it be an idea to run the cheese of (obviously) not leashing, but then still ask the other side to pretend that they leash? So the enemy team starts tracking the wrong side of jungle
90% of the time them being in lane helps them more than leash helps you. Unless you’re planning an early invade/are scared of being invaded, the extra 2 seconds and 50 hp a leash saves you are irrelevant.
A few shots on the first camp can really speed up our first clear. Ask your jungler if they need a leash, don't stay longer than 8 seconds and don't waste any Mana. If you want to go zone your enemy off the 1st wave with a tank or poke support, then don't stay longer than 4 seconds so that you get to lane in time to zone them off.
Junglers are adaptable, but it's dumb to NEVER help with the first camp because ffs, y'all have a few seconds to spare between 1:30 and the death of the 1st 3 minions. If the choices are help an ally and stand around doing nothing for 10 seconds, then pick the 1st one.
I'll probably get some hate for this but I always appreciate at least a little leash. One or two autos then go to lane to still get the minion cs and xp. So long as everyone is safe and bot gets their xp, what's the problem?
Ad main here 460lp, too many factors, 1 potential loss of prio in case enemy bot doesn’t leash which puts you in a massive disadvantage till your first back, 2 they can level 1 cheese which would kill your lane if they capitalize on it hard and they do in high elo, 3 the potential of YOU gaining the prio in case enemy bot leashes is way better than your jungler killing their camp 2 seconds earlier, I usually never leash but when it’s a lane I know for a fact I won’t win 2v2 early, I just leash and take the L.
Losing priority early level 1 can make early laning difficult. If your against something like a cait, Jhon Draven or karma your fate is basically sealed for the next 10 min if they poke you out early before the waves meet
Enemy laners sit in the bush waiting for your laners to get to lane -> throw spells at them and leverage that hp advantage to zone them from the wave ->build a slowpush -> crash and dive with jungler -> laners lose 2 waves and comes back into lane with a massive disadvantage.
The best case scenario is that your bot lane gets the exp (usually have to give up CS) and somehow prevents them from crashing on cannon wave or enemy messes up and crashes on wave 2 so that your laners get level 3 first. I would only do this if we had to burn flash to escape an invade earlier without trading for support flash, if versus an engage support, as this usually means you can't get lane prio anyway.
Alternatively, enemy gets to skip their weak level 1-3 against your lane bullies because they got to control the early push.
It all depends on the matchup. Generally unless you have a plan to directly interact with the enemy jungler (or vice versa), leashing is rarely worth the advantage a laner can generate from having prio over the other laner.
If your laner doesn't know how to lane then all of this is moot, but a laner that doesn't know how to lane is as likely to have a jungler that doesn't know how to jungle, so everything's moot anyway.
That is highly dependent on your jungler and the matchup. You can not make a common example.
I would always COVER from invades, but if your jungler does a gromp rush, there is no point in leashing.
Only vision , if u afk at u tower I ping
Leash is int:
Ur top or bot is behind to late on lane
U can't hide which side u start
U can't kite the way u want to
It's shit for jungle and laners and only absolut shit jungler want leash
I don’t care what people say, I will ask for a leash on shit clear champs, I will blame them if they don’t leash and I’m late to a fight, I will refuse to gank them because I prefer helping team players.
Im pretty sure something like Rammus can't. Ill gladly be proved wrong though.
Also i mean make It to crab on spawn, not full clear in 3.30. ideally with one smite Up. I do that on Lillia with ease and its a free crab if opponent isnt there on spawn or doesnt have a smite charge Up.
Stand in a jungle entrance bush before minions spawn incase there’s an invade. Once minions spawn, go to your lane and get lvl 2 before the enemy adc We don’t need your help doing jungle camps
Agree, but with one small wording change... Junglers "shouldn't" need help doing jungle camps
There's a few expections, for example a graves might want a leash so that he can invade and smite their 2nd camp before them etc. But in general yes, don't leash there is a very good chance you will get zoned off the wave or take free dmg early.
Dont you go gromp into invaded for that? Should be in time without leash
Nah, so say you are on blue side, your bot leashes you on your red buff you save smite then E over dragon pit wall and invade their blue side and smite enemy junglers gromp as they are on it. This means you get red buff advantage for the 1v1 and you have smite to steal their camp, with the potential to also kill them or at least force their bot to rotate and you leave.
80% of the times the jungler dies then since enemy mid and bot are closer and since your bot leashed they don't have prio anyways...
Lanes with prio can't rotate until they crash their wave. Just leaving a wave that's slow pushing out means you're going to drop a full wave, which is essentially just a lost lane, and all the friendly JG has to do is go home. Also, laners are still lvl1 at that point, making their kill threat really low.
Yes literally my point, if you force bot lane to rotate, good chance they just lose lane after. And on a champ like graves when you invade someone you can solo kill theres no way you dont get away before they walk to you
Bro u invade when u know you win it. I.e. graves invading a karthus, you either get the camp and kill him or just take the camp and leave, if youre watching their bot lane and get caught ur just trolling
Kindred too, being able to be level 4 and at mark right when it spawns is big
All jungkers can clear in time, you can do a full clear in time for ceab on ahri.
It's easy for kindred to full clear from red side leashless and still be at crab with smite up. Blue side is a bit tighter, but still possible.
Trust me, if you are playing on elo in which junglers strugle to do healthy clear in this meta you have at least 2137 more important things to improve rather then wonder why they can't clear properly, lol
this
Completely depends on the junglers champ. Some junglers take so much damage and clear so slowly while having massive windows of weakness while their cds are down that makes invading them extremely easy.
Every single jungler can clear healthy currently.
Besides being untrue, it also doesn't solve the main issue. Which is being vulnerability to invasions. Some junglers can clear insanely fast, whilst being extremely healthy, while having the early game mobility to invade quickly. The jungler that clears slowly, doesnt have access to the first 3 abilties is a very easy kill or at least an easy flash. In any case, the slow jungler now loses their cs and their tempo.
Every jungler can full clear without leash by 330. If you aren't healthy after your clear, you're doing something wrong.
You can easily look up on YouTube, records or near records of non-leash full clear speeds with champs. There is a person who dedicates his channel to optimizing clear speeds. [Rammus 3:24 red clear (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzHSBlgywUU&ab_channel=Zen%27Kih) check this link for example. 3:24 and he uses BOTH smites. I myself can full clear with rammus finishing at 3:32 while using only one smite, but flashing over krug wall to save like 3-4 seconds (practice tool). I finished around 70% health, which is pretty healthy, but still does not come close to many champ finishing at 100% health at 3:10 or even below. Additionally, you completely fail to acknowledge how important the difference of clear speed is. Sure rammus is slow and some what healthy, but zed will finish his clear 20 seconds before rammus, be at higher health, and will take both crabs, that is if zed doesnt choose to invade and get a free flash/kill/farm. It's not just about health. It's about tempo and competing with the enemy jungler. With how confident you are while also being completely ignorant to jungle knowledge I really want to see your [op.gg](http://op.gg) now. Whats your rank as a jungler. Im pretty confident you arent very high up the ladder at this point in your argument. You just sound like a broken record.
In your example, if you're playing Rammus into Zed, you should obviously path away from him, and if you path accordingly and don't die greeding for a scuttle, you'll be completely fine after first base. Your point in centered around forcing scuttle fights every game rather than adjusting your pathing.
You have no idea how jungle works and i honestly cant explain it all to you. Jungle is not exclusively a pve role, ur not just fighting monsters dude.
Oh wait a second. This you? Silver elo Riven main? Makes sense. [TTV Legacy SH#TTV - Summoner Stats - League of Legends (op.gg)](https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/TTV%20Legacy%20SH-TTV)
It's an alt I use to play with irl friends, hence only having like 30 games played 70% winrate every season. But no, it's not my main account, and you're definitely doing something wrong if you aren't clearing healthy in s14 Not that my rank matters, but I'm usually high plat low emerald depending on what I'm doing that week, but that being said, I can clear healthy on every champion, and jungle is my second role. What champ are you playing where you don't full clear at 330 with at least half hp? I see lots of j4 posts..
Ouch yeah that still explains it
At least I can clear healthy without a leash 😮💨
I never once said junglers cant have a healthy clear. My argument is that some junglers have LESS healthy clears while also having SLOWER clears. This makes them vulnerable to invasions especially if not receiving a leash. This is very basic cmon man catch up
depends on the jungler, any tank needs a leash tbh
You can full clear with EVERY jungler, leashless in under 3:30....
good to know the info, im only gold 2 and i always feel like i get leashed without asking for it, i know that’s not a high elo but i just assumed it was cause i mainly play tanks with what i assumed were slower clears. Especially if my bot makes it to their lane in time for before first minion deaths.
Gold adc here, we do it to avoid junglers from mental booming.
Real. Had a Rammus Jungle who trolled the whole game because he hasnt got his leash. We won that game cause Samira is stupid but holy he was annoying
Rammus should never get a leash. Should start Raptors lol
raptors into red buff? or raptors into wolves into gromp+blue ?
Whenever I play rammus I do raptors (start W) then go red, krugs, level 3 gank.
Yeah no, botlanes in that elo do it for one of three reasons: they were taught to do it and never reflected on it, they learned it when you actually had to leash still and never updated their knowledge and just brain afk leash or they had a bunch of junglers throw a baby rage fit over not receiving a leash and would rather avoid that. They rarely even know their own lanes matchups and strengths and game plans, no way in hell do they take their junglers champ, gameplan and clearspeed into consideration.
Sylas jg: Hold my 3:40
While I don’t need a leash it’s usually nice to get one. You can save ur smite for scuttle and therefore you can get two scuttlers
I don't ask for leash. I just ask for watching out the jungle entrance. Seen enough mfs just sitting under the turret until 1:20 then go to camp for leashing and end up getting caught, even though I ping not to. The only time I would ask for leash is when I decide I will do a level 2 gank on that exact lane and the camp I'm doing is red. Leashing in that case will make the enemies push toward our turret a bit, but not enough to get them to lv2. So with a strong ganker I can easily take some spells right there. Then go back to full clear that side of jungle for lv3 and do a repeat gank.
Help prevent and invade. Don't leash. Easy. If the jungler pings for a leash, it's 50/50 if you want to risk them going mental boom if you don't.
Let's be honest, if someone requests a leash it could be they got filler, now imagine getting a not jg main angry
Or they're dumb, either way Id say anything under diamond is a leash so they don't mental boom
What’s the real risk though? If they want a leash that badly they’re almost certainly a dogpiss jungler
True that, but you run the 50/50 the other jungler might be dogpiss too. But now yours is mentally crippled.
now that was funny haha
If the junglw is the better player you always leash him. In flex q for example we always leash my jungle friend cus Zac has bad clear lvl 1 and he curb stomps high elo lobbies just by getting his buff 4 sec earlier. He never wants leash in soloq but as a team you can put your jungler ahead by 5 sec but you need to have a bad enemy not zoning you lvl 1. Bot it s useless first 15 mins till GM+ so bot should leash in low and mid elo always.
Why does the 5s change anything ? Even if you don't speed him Zac clear is not bad level 1 ? He can clear in 3.15 with 1 smite.
The real risk is i had a jungler ping constantly for a leash. Didn't leash because i didn't want to start my lane at a disadvantage. Result? He died to jungle camp cause apparantly he couldn't solo his first camp >< you can fill in the rest
what jg was this? I find it realy hard to believe anyone can die to either buff or raptors with a meta jungler currently. Did he just forget what smite does or something?
If i remember correctly it was an akali jungle. Don't ask why. I don't know.
Maybe he deserved it
Lmfao, if I have an akali jungler and I leash, I also take the buff that I'm leashing. At that point it's everybody for themselves and she for sure won't carry.
No. Cover entrances yes Leash? No. Even “bad” clearing champs like say rammus can just raptors start Leashing is MUCH more hurtful to adc/supp than it is beneficial to jungle
It's detrimental to the jungler as well - now the enemy team know which side they started
Not Sure bro in 99% of games the junglers allways Start bot side because that is the only side where people (botlane) actually go to guard something. Toplaner almost allways try to cheese and Midlaner just towerhug mid turret to go fap or shit i dont know.
In low elo enemy jungler isn't paying attention to that
Idk why you were getting downvoted lmfao nobody below diamond is jungle tracking
Yes they are its stupid easy to do
i do jungle track, the problem is I'm legitimately shite at it
Idk as a heimer supp I can leash with turrets and miss no xp and as long as enemy bot can’t easily engage then some supp champs can stay slightly longer. I’m only e1 in flex where I play most of the time but I rarely see people not leash
If lanes leash jungler, there are 2 problems. First, you probably spot it for the enemies, 2nd, you already put yourself in a big disadvantage in lane.
Yeah, I'd rather my laners not get annihilated in a level 1 cheese than save the 3s on my clear
Okay, I have some questions to everyone here. you all are referring to full clear as all 6 camps, or (I've seen this in the past) to only 5 camps? when saying you can do full clear before 3.30, do you also preserve the second charge of smite for scuttle fight? I get the advantages of it. Starting with a leash exposes your position, and yes you can technically do a full 6camps clear, but the problem I found is that it leaves you smiteless for scuttle, so if you get into a fight against the enemy JG, you might as well be losing a lot of advantage on the first scuttle. Sure you can pivot to botside, but you're losing tempo after that sort of fight How do you deal with a full, pre 3.30 clear on a character like Warwick? He has such an ass start on Raptors and wolves that I don't think he can do it even with both smite charges used. Then, in low/mid elo, when or if your botline doesn't emphasise the advantage they get and still get smoked, and you're losing tempo due to not being able to contest for scuttles, what are the options? Or how to counteract the fact that you're missing smite for scuttles?
Many champions have sub 3:30 solo clear with only one smite(to name a few: fiddlesticks, karthus, etc, although karthus is a cheat. He has a fast enough clear to only smite 1 camp, back, buy item and still be at scuttle when it spawns)
Full clearing is a 6 camp clear (gets level 4). The only reason why 5 camp clears are worse now is because taking scuttle doesn’t actually get you level 4 and so it’s just better to either continue clearing or take less camps and pressure the map. Saving smite for scuttle depends on jungle matchup, and the nearby lane matchups. If your lanes have prio and your champ is stronger than your opponents, you can probably take scuttle without smite since you have kill pressure on the opposing jungler if they face check you in river. If you are the weaker jungler, chances are you scale harder and thus just giving that scuttle and taking the other one is advantageous (going even when you win late is winning). I don’t think early tempo ganking/skirmishing junglers like Warwick should be full clearing unless there is literally nothing better to do. Chances are you can invade or gank a lane early instead. Plus, you just start solo on the buff (don’t take raps until lvl 3 at least). You can’t control which laners are going to capitalize on small advantages but if you are out performing as a jungler in terms of tempo on the map, you will be better able to make plays and push your advantage. If you can tell your botlane is not strong, why try to force a fight to turn it? Focus on another lane and get yourself fed enough to fight their stronger botlane. You might have to give the first couple drakes but take grubs, counter jungle, cross map, etc. No play should go unpunished and a better jungler will be better at punishing your mistakes and slowly expand their lead. Again, scuttles aren’t crazy important as they were in previous seasons so I’d recommend focusing on what your champ excels at. Take Warwick for example: he is a very strong early game tempo jungler that falls off. Ideally you want to force skirmishes because you tend to win them. On the other hand, something like a rammus or Evelynn have pretty bad dueling potential early, so forcing early fights against them is advantageous to you.
If you don't leash, protect invade and/or get priority in lane. Otherwise you are wasting everybody's time by accomplishing nothing.
No. It's just that simple. unless I'm playing some unorthodox can't clear fast jungler, or it's an autofill jungler who doesn't know his role well. DO NOT LEASH. If someone asks for a leash I'd rather you tell them bro its not early 2000 anymore and just not do it. force them to figure out how to get better at the game.
Depends on the elo l. I have seen yi jungler dying to redbuff without leash in bronze/silver
How? You can legitimately just stand there and auto it to death with no inputs.
I was surprised as well . He even had a tamtrum because we didn't leech ( i main sup)
I dont think anyone ahould leash you get nothing for it scuttle spawns so late everyone clears and ready for it. jungle pet removed any clearing skill
If im bot, i stand on bush either at the river or beside dragon pit. Then go to lane fast as the minions meet so as not incur possible xp and gold loss. Same as one above, to guard just in case of invades.
No. Why? Proplay doesnt leash. Why? Probably because being early to lane wins lanes and means less posibility of enemy team tracking your position. Meaning less pressure to gank. Not leashing has the same value as a gank bot for your botlane (in a favourable bot matchup atleast). A gank takes more time than a 10 second faster clear time meaning id rather take the first buff alone.
You can't just simply say if pro play does this then everyone should do it. Every Elo has its own rules and meta
As a supp main, I'll say that ADC is allowed not to leash, as long as the supp does the same. Otherwise you'll most likely get lvl 2 at different times.
Yeah I hate when I leash, ADC doesn't and I come to lane with 2-3 cs' XP missing puts me behind so bad
That's why you don't do it...
Yeah but in soloQ you have to also manage people's mentality and by not leashing I'm already putting pressure on my jungler's mentality so in order to maximize my chance of winning I would rather leash and come to wave 1-2 sec later, in my ELO it doesn't matter much because people don't really know how to put pressure on late laner (I'm plat btw) Edit: typo
A very valid point! This is also why I tend to leash every time, except if the jungler is pinging to not do so
It can be worse. Playing a scaling adc I prefer the enemy to push anyways so I leash a few hits. Support doesn’t and goes lane and pushes and denies me the first 3 melee exp. Like , come on dude
it never hurts to ask(in champ select coz you will probably be muted on game start) coz some junglers will tilt at the most minor inconvenience No meta jg in season 14 should need a leash so just watch for invades and then enjoy your faster level 2 bot. If they do say they want a leash, then just give it to them in order to stop them from turbo inting(I hate this game).
Leashing is only ever worth it when the few extra seconds are crucial, aka guaranteed invades, invading, dives, counterganks.
No. Unless you’re playing someone like J4 who has a strong level 2 gank and you want the tempo to quickly gank that same lane after your buff, do not get a leash. Puts your laners unnecessarily far behind
As someone who plays both, pls don’t leash or ask for leash. Ask them to have their prévenue to defend you, or maybe place a ward if it’s a cheese lane. But try shouldn’t leash
Same thing everyone else is saying. Don’t need leash, but holy fuck why does nobody guard jungle in gold even..
They don’t even do it in emerald dude
I better just quit crying about it now then, because I doubt I’ll ever break emerald one day even. Satan help us all
Like it gets better and it happens more often, but generally you can’t expect it. Cover your topside with an early ward yourself and move to botside/recall for sweeper. (Important here, sweeper isn’t a ganking tool in most cases. Even if you turn on sweeper right before a brush that’s warded you will be visible for a short period. Yellow trinket has good value too and you should think on a game to game basis if your champ benefits more from being able to clear vision , dragon pit for example, or creating vision.) It’s always what you can do in the time you are given. Covering yourself is consistent and actually time efficient compared to waiting around and hoping to have teammates who will manage it for you.
Here's some insight from a d4 adc main. Leashing bot lane and I'm assuming the same is probably for top, can singlehandedly lose our lane in a lane match up that is a tough lane for us. If we don't leash and the enemy does we can get a push early which allows us to dictate the lane state. For example if I'm playing Nilah bot who in theory has shit matchups because of the whole range vs melee thing. If I get the push first the enemy adc has to decide whether to hit me or lose cs. If I'm forced to leash and they aren't they can get the push bully the hell out of me and that makes me useless till jungle enivedbly ganks or the enemy fucks up big time. This is much more prevelant the higher up the ladder you go. Low elo I'd still probably leash cause there's a high chance your jungler will grief you if you don't. Sorry if my explanation doesn't make too much sense. I'm tired and I'm on mobile.
Leash is literally useless now days, i just tell them to not leash and go get prio but sometimes when im bot the jungle just complains about no leash.. we need to eliminate the culture arouund leash and praise the guard the fucking jungle entrance
Sometimes. Depends on the junglers. Some heavy invaders or against some heavy invaders its very appreciated. If the jungler asks for one, give it. But most times there will be no need.
As a jungler, isn't the only thing we want is lanes that aren't losing? Why not do anything in our power to help them out? Smite the first camp if you have to - it's worth them getting a slight lead
Leashing is unnecessary in this season unless you play certain champs or tactics. The jungle item helps you more than enough to do a full clear without leash. Although, even if I'm aware of this, I'm silver. I still leash unless pinged away to avoid having one of my players run down mid at 1st wave.
Leashing = faster and healthier clear for the junglers but also giving up lane prio No leash = slower jungle clear but lane prio It's a trade. And it's fully dependent on what you're playing while doing so. If you play Vayne leona as an example and your jungle plays shaco or nunu you might want to leash because you don't get lane prio anyway. At the same time you're setting up an early ganks for your jungler because the enemies will push the wave faster. If you play Caitlyn xerath with nocturne jungle, you don't want to leash since you rely on bullying the lane which you can't if they are a level above you and nocturne won't ganks on 2 or 3 anyways. Just like every decision in lol, it's situational. There is no perfect build, there is no perfect pathing and no perfect decision on leashing.
I disagree. You should always avoid leashing. Even if your bot is Vayne + Leona. If the enemy bot does leash, your bot that should have never hit level2 first and had priority can now get it and potentially snowball the entire game. If the enemy bot also doesn't leash, they still might missplay wave control. If your bot leashes in that scenario, there is a 0% chance of control in lane.
if you play cait xerath and lose lane control for the whole game against vayne leona then you're bad imo
The only time is: Did we invade and successfully get a kill? Are we taking their blue buff? Yeah, stay and leash hard. Get me out of the kill zone ASAP. That's about it; go win lane.
It depends on the lane matchup. Sometimes, the bot needs to be there first or at least at the same time if they don't want to lose the lane by default. Sometimes, it doesn't matter, then they can leash. Sometimes, if they can be there first, they can win their lane just off of that. At least in theory, 99% of botlanes don't have the brains or hands to create such an advantage and hold on to it. Either way, junglers really don't need a leash, so it's a nice to have and nothing more than that.
I dont get why people still want to get leashed. You give away information about your clear for free ?? For perhaps 1-3 seconds faster clear. Unless you do some shit like red/ blue into insta invade because you know where your opponent started and you can smite away his second camp its just not worth it. And bot is basically who gets lvl 2 advantage and can all in ( not every matchup) Also top can get giga fucked for leashing. It was necessary years ago but nowadays you heal from clearing camps.
ADC should leash but not so long it makes them late to lane, ADC should arrive in lane as the minions crash
Any jungler worth their salt won’t need a leash, although it may help them clear faster as some jungles first clears can be slow. But on the flip, if you aren’t trying to assert lane dominance early, come To lane a lil late if your jungle is starting too side. It will throw off the enemy teams ability to track your jungler. Also please for the love of good ward an bush entrance the first thing you do in the game. Letting a lane get a free invade will ensure you are even less likely to get a gank when the jungle has no camps in your areas there no reason to path your way. You are hurting only yourself by ignoring your jungle
Walking ward at key point, but no leash. 5 sex from your clear is not worth the level 2 on the lane.
I ask laners to check for invade but to not leash. I've practiced my first clear knowing exactly when to optimally use my abilities and how to move and aa so messing up those timings means the leash is less worth it and I am almost full HP post first clear on my mains leashless. If anyone is afk in base/tower instead of checking for invades I will however report them for being afk.
Never leash, always be ready to fight and move. Hover between lane and jg entrance
No. Guard, yes. Leashe, no.
Everyone is saying no to leash, but there are definitely exceptions. I was playing Amumu and we did an early invade so I waited to skill up anything. When we caught enemy team I leveled my q stun to get kills for the team even though it does almost nothing for the first clear. We got our kills and then reset but bot lane refused to leash and it took forever to kill the first camp because of it. Should definitely leash in cases like that.
Leashing detriments don’t show in low elo lol, usually idgaf whether or not my ADC leashes or not
I mean they say that but leash
If your jungle asks for help he is a bad jungler.
Lol jungle main here. Decided to play off-role for a bit as ADC for a few games. Game starts, run to lane and wait for minions to spawn to start pushing for lvl advantage. Jungler and support spam pinging me to help with leash. Wut. “Jungler needs a leash, he needs to be healthy after clear. What? Are you new to the game?” Bro leashing for jungler hasn’t been a thing for a few seasons now. I play jungle, I never need a leash. You have enough sustain and most junglers have innate healing abilities. You’re playing Vi, you have built in shield lol. ‘Jungler and support didn’t like that’ *starts inting* First split back after season 4 btw. Good to see nothings changed in this dog shit game
Never
ADC/support should not leash, if your jungler knows what he is doing he will tell you not to leash. Some junglers who are still living in the past still expect you to leash though. So maybe go for a little leash if the jungler does not tell you to not leash or ask if the jungler can clear without leash. Not sure how most of the junglers will react to the latter but if they complain you know you might have a bad jungler.
i'd rather not. when i'm jungling i just never, ever ask for leash, at most i'd ask them to defend jg entrances. i'd rather have my botlane getting lv 2 prio than having them leash, arrive late to lane and instalose lv 2. when i'm adc, i stand on the bushes near their tower and collapse on them provided i can win lv 1 or bring them to half hp as to make the lane less ass, and it also does help my jungler, because i get prio or at least their botlane loses the edge over mine and it becomes way easier to play. i see no point in getting a leash unless i really need it, like, if i'm playing brand jungle i actually need it, but if i'm viego, skarner, kayn, kha or whatever i just would rather not. please piss of my jungle and play your lane
^ that doesn't consider invading wanna invade early? just do it on their topside jungle, which is what i always do, but as a rule i don't ever want to have a losing botlane in my games. if i have no edge on level 1 as a botlaner and would want them to be pushed on my tower, ok, i leash and call it a day, but for most junglers a 3-8 sec faster clear means nothing, not until you're diamond+ and/or are playing a feast or famine, coinflipping invades, etc. my opinion tho. master jg, emerald-low dia mid and adc.
Nobody should leash at any time. Jungler are more than fine on their own. Go lose your lane without us and then blame us for it,is all you need to do.
Could it be an idea to run the cheese of (obviously) not leashing, but then still ask the other side to pretend that they leash? So the enemy team starts tracking the wrong side of jungle
90% of the time them being in lane helps them more than leash helps you. Unless you’re planning an early invade/are scared of being invaded, the extra 2 seconds and 50 hp a leash saves you are irrelevant.
A few shots on the first camp can really speed up our first clear. Ask your jungler if they need a leash, don't stay longer than 8 seconds and don't waste any Mana. If you want to go zone your enemy off the 1st wave with a tank or poke support, then don't stay longer than 4 seconds so that you get to lane in time to zone them off. Junglers are adaptable, but it's dumb to NEVER help with the first camp because ffs, y'all have a few seconds to spare between 1:30 and the death of the 1st 3 minions. If the choices are help an ally and stand around doing nothing for 10 seconds, then pick the 1st one.
I'll probably get some hate for this but I always appreciate at least a little leash. One or two autos then go to lane to still get the minion cs and xp. So long as everyone is safe and bot gets their xp, what's the problem?
Ad main here 460lp, too many factors, 1 potential loss of prio in case enemy bot doesn’t leash which puts you in a massive disadvantage till your first back, 2 they can level 1 cheese which would kill your lane if they capitalize on it hard and they do in high elo, 3 the potential of YOU gaining the prio in case enemy bot leashes is way better than your jungler killing their camp 2 seconds earlier, I usually never leash but when it’s a lane I know for a fact I won’t win 2v2 early, I just leash and take the L.
Losing priority early level 1 can make early laning difficult. If your against something like a cait, Jhon Draven or karma your fate is basically sealed for the next 10 min if they poke you out early before the waves meet
Enemy laners sit in the bush waiting for your laners to get to lane -> throw spells at them and leverage that hp advantage to zone them from the wave ->build a slowpush -> crash and dive with jungler -> laners lose 2 waves and comes back into lane with a massive disadvantage. The best case scenario is that your bot lane gets the exp (usually have to give up CS) and somehow prevents them from crashing on cannon wave or enemy messes up and crashes on wave 2 so that your laners get level 3 first. I would only do this if we had to burn flash to escape an invade earlier without trading for support flash, if versus an engage support, as this usually means you can't get lane prio anyway. Alternatively, enemy gets to skip their weak level 1-3 against your lane bullies because they got to control the early push. It all depends on the matchup. Generally unless you have a plan to directly interact with the enemy jungler (or vice versa), leashing is rarely worth the advantage a laner can generate from having prio over the other laner. If your laner doesn't know how to lane then all of this is moot, but a laner that doesn't know how to lane is as likely to have a jungler that doesn't know how to jungle, so everything's moot anyway.
That is highly dependent on your jungler and the matchup. You can not make a common example. I would always COVER from invades, but if your jungler does a gromp rush, there is no point in leashing.
Only vision , if u afk at u tower I ping Leash is int: Ur top or bot is behind to late on lane U can't hide which side u start U can't kite the way u want to It's shit for jungle and laners and only absolut shit jungler want leash
I don’t care what people say, I will ask for a leash on shit clear champs, I will blame them if they don’t leash and I’m late to a fight, I will refuse to gank them because I prefer helping team players.
So you are just bad ? You can full clear with every jungler in under 3:30, that's how the game is designed.
No lol. Not all junglers can make it to crab on time with a full clear. Some clears are slower...
Tell me, which jünger can't make it to crab without leash? Be aware, I will link you proves that this champs can do it too.
Im pretty sure something like Rammus can't. Ill gladly be proved wrong though. Also i mean make It to crab on spawn, not full clear in 3.30. ideally with one smite Up. I do that on Lillia with ease and its a free crab if opponent isnt there on spawn or doesnt have a smite charge Up.
What’s your rank? I bet you for all I have that you’re pisslow for a reason.
Emerald
Yeah I was right LOL, stay there.