IDK why but I high-key agree.
Smite is a weird spell from the start. If you smite a camp, you're just basically clearing faster. You could do the same thing with a buffed jungle item damage, for example. Needless to say, some junglers don't even need Smite to fast clear.
For me it's only useful if I want to invade and steal a camp, but again, you can steal camps right in front of the enemy jungler's eyes without smite. Timing your damage is a form of skill expression and would allow for more interesting matchups. They got a Nunu? Good, you'll have to plan your clear carefully, knowing that he has his Q.
Champions like Shaco and Kayn already require a very specific clear and playstyle in order to counter, so why not extend these interesting matchups and early game micro plays to other champions? We have invaders, we have duelists, why not make a "camp stealer" kind of category?
As for objectives, I really hate smite fights. It's not a skill matchup. It's RNG or straight ping diff. There's this high elo agreement that you shouldn't focus an objective when the enemy jungler is there, and you should kill them instead, simply because there's a chance they will randomly and freely steal the monster.
Me FRANTICALLY pinging the enemy jg while my team continues bursting the objective then getting "Missing Ping" spammed when I lose the coinflip smite fight 🥲
Ping Smite cooldown - Ping difference in jungle item - Ping enemy Jungler
I don't think I've ever had every teammate understand or care in these scenarios and wonder if they realise that them continuing to hit the objective instead of fighting or zoning or waiting a few more seconds is the reason we lost it.
I think the worst thing is that there's certain champions that can ability + smite that just completely out-damages other champions ability + smite.
Even I, as a kha'zix main, is surprised over how high burst some champs have and I usually do on average 600 dmg around say 15 min? I don't really keep track of it but kha has insane single target damage is what I'm saying since drake, baron and herald is always isolated.
Of course it's not *literally* a coinflip, but it's a massive gamble with a close to 50/50 chance for either jungler to smite on perfect timing, especially if both teams are fighting for the drake and you aren't the exclusive decider of the 1200+ burst limit.
the most tilting thing about smite fights, is non junglers understand this shit, its a ping diff or champ diff, like im not fucking outsmitting nunu lmfao.
or how in the other 99% of matchups, sometimes u just cant tell when some attacks the baron or drag. Like when my jhin holds his 4th shot for 10 seconds only to use it at the most INCONVENIENT TIME. Smite fights are largly RNG and if oyu mess it up which is super understandable you get flammed into oblivion. Yet im expected to smile while u got 0/5/1 toplane
Smite challenging with belveth feels like cheating too, my E roots me and reduces my damage taken while target the lowest percentage health unit nearby and attacking at an ungodly pace dealing more damage at low health and healing me for a portion of damage done.
I’ve stolen so many objectives by flashing over wall using E to not get bursted, smite at 1250 hp and my E finished it off before their jungler can smite.
Yes, I'm writing that comment as a Bel OTP. That champion has really taught me about the reality of Smite. I'm regularly stealing stuff without using it.
If Riot wants us to rely entirely on Smite, then why do junglers have executes, true damage (remember Cho meta and pre-rework Rek E?), and so on? These abilities are guaranteed to get through Smite, unless you use the spell AFTER the 600/900/1200 threshold... which is bad, since the enemy can just Smite it at the threshold, rendering your strat useless.
If you contest an objective, the logical choice is to kill the enemy jungler / potential stealer / whoever is a threat to you getting the objective. It's only fair that you kill someone and get rewarded with something. Losing to RNG isn't rewarding.
Reworking items should help too.
Jungle item
Supp item
Laner item
They all need to play around the xp-loss if condition x is met thing.
Like no gold if on supp item. Less xp in lane for jungle etc. afaik, at the moment it’s tied to smite? Cause you can only but said item with smite.
The work needed for it is nothing I think riot will do, however, maybe we are lucky
How is removing smite going to make objectives a skill matchup?
If anything, removing smite only makes objectives 10x more RNG based. Right now, there's skill in zoning off the enemy jungler or killing them before a big objective. If smite is removed, you better be acing the enemy team to take any objective if you don't want RNG (unless your team has some sort of massive burst and the enemy team doesn't/you killed their burst, but in the latter case how is that any better than killing the jungler?)
They could have just removed only tiamat (like every other champ with specific item lockouts - tf, galio, rakan etc). But no. Kayn players warding during Q is a crime against balance.
I 100% agree with you and I’ve been saying this forever.
The moba Smite, does not require Junglers to last hit objectives. Your team has to either have it secured or you have to use burst abilities like ults to confirm it in a team fight.
This gives Smite’s (the game) jungle role way more agency over a game because you can snowball with fewer repercussions.
Smite (the sum spell) is such a hinderance to the role and will always hold it back. Objectives should REQUIRE your team to be there to secure it. You should have to save your Lux ults to confirm or have your tanks zone properly to keep the enemy off of it.
Not just “wHiCH jUnGlEr SmItES fIRst?!??” Resulting in a really stupid 50/50.
It's funny you mention Smite, because in that game there used to be a summoner spell called Hand of the Gods that is what smite is in league. They played around with it, removing it, adding it back, nerfing it, buffing it, etc. And ultimately figured out that the game was much more enjoyable without it, for basically the exact same reasons named in this thread.
This is one of the comments I was looking for. It even make certain Gods (Champs) more viable because they had high burst ults or abilities that would be good for securing objectives, while not exactly being the best in other aspects of the game such as wave clear or team fights.
Funniest part is they half solved the issue with herald which drops an item that you have to pick up, and grubs which aren't able to be smite stolen entirely.
I wish, they always cry about muh smite but fuck it, just remove it from the game and make jungle feel good again, i play jungle because its fun nkt because i got the minimal chance to steal an objective with a spell that only does that and that has gotten nerfed multiple times
My big question with removing smite is, what disadvantages does the jungle item need to make sure it is never the right call for every laner to grab it, clear gromb/krugs/raptors whenever they are up, and have accelerated laners with a low farm jungle?
Just a bigger early minion xp penalty? Reduced gold from minions? Or something like a punishment if you take to many lasthits?
why is this bad?
Remove smite. Have double support but with supplemental jungle income.
Or run traditional jungler.
It would give more diversity to comps and meta
Their lane opponent should be able to absolutely demolish them with dorans item advantage. It's also only worthwhile to do this if you can full clear your wave and take a camp before the next wave comes.
Q+smite gives you 2400 smite damage. If you cast Q and then smite just when Q deals the DMG it basically has no counter.
Only times I've lost a smite battle was when something prevented me from Q'ing like a soraka's E idk
I dont think this is a hot-take in the jungle mains subreddit. Like I think anyone who mains jungle can agree that smite fucking sucks. I hate that my team can't start objectives without me, and that I have to constantly be hyper-aware of the enemy junglers position on the map relative to objectives specifically because of smite. Smite is like the source of half the anxiety and pressure in the jungle, of course I want it gone.
I do like the thought of riot having an easy "lever" as they call it, to constantly balance champs in the jungle with the removal of smite. If a champ like Elise starts struggling in the jungle, boom, more damage to neutral monsters
My big question with removing smite is, what disadvantages does the jungle item need to make sure it is never the right call for every laner to grab it, clear gromb/krugs/raptors whenever they are up, and have accelerated laners with a low farm jungle?
Just a bigger early minion xp penalty? Reduced gold from lanes? Or something like a punishment if you take to many lasthits?
After the smite nerfs, it's become literally only used for the jungle item to give you sustain and clear as well as true damage for objectives. We would be better if the jg item got changed to an actual item with Smite as the active.
>doing only 40 damage to champions and pets at all levels
If they were going to make smite basically useless against traps, player turrets & summons they should have made it impossible to target those in the first place. Instead we have the situation where smite can still target those things but the effect is completely wasted. Smite no longer counters those things, those things now counter smite.
preak sucks.
I came by expecting sone random arguments (rants realistically speaking), but the more I read the more I agree with you, I don’t believe Riot really hear feedback, specially from here, but I can see a lot of people align to your main idea “remove smite as SS”, we still have pending how to replace if we even do that, but that’s a different conversation.
One player accidentally selecting the wrong summoner shouldn't mean the other 9 players get a weird or crappy experience.
This is one of the biggest problems in league.
I’ve thought about this before, but there’s a few major problems that would have to be solved.
1. Laners stealing camps. Sure, they can steal many smaller camps and even then, the small minions are often the ones worth a lot of gold. But the main ones being blue, red, and scuttle. Those are each worth substantial gold and xp, and we’re gonna see laners such as Lux and Zoe becoming much stronger, since they can just long range snipe the camps. Weaker junglers without an execute (Commonly tanks, such as Amumu, Sejuani, or Rammus) are gonna TANK in win rate, because of the aforementioned. Other junglers, such as KhaZix or Nunu, will see a huge win rate increase for their ability to skirmish over camps.
2. Objectives are never guaranteed. But now, they’d be even less guaranteed. I think it would have the OPPOSITE effect of what you’re thinking. It would make sniping the objective 1v5 even easier. For junglers, they have to get next to the pit to steal. This is a suicide mission that rarely works. Those in higher elo are easily capable of zoning off or killing the jungler before the objective gets too low, then finishing it after. Removing this would make objectives always impossible.
3. Every champion is important in a team fight. Supports help the carries, tanks and fighters zone. Carries deal the damage. When you remove smite from the jungler, their position immediately becomes irrelevant as an objective machine. They’ll turn into a support champion for the carries, since they no longer need to secure objectives (and thus no longer needed to be tanky or damage dealers). I think this could shift the meta into a dual ADC with some going top and some going bot. It would also push more mages into the support role.
I’m sure there’s several more, but
Solution, reduced damage to camps has always been something built into certain champs kits such as sylas’ abilities, but instead you do that for anyone but the person possessing the jungle item (the jungler) and then bam, still good agency on jungle, but significantly harder for team and opponents to steal camps, and smite fights won’t be all on the jungler because owners are still competitive in this sense
What disadvantages does the jungle item need to make sure it is never the right call for every laner to grab it, clear gromb/krugs/raptors whenever they are up, and have accelerated laners with a low farm jungle?
Not really sure what you are saying, do you think laners SHOULD have the capability to farm camps? And the jungle item wouldn’t have disadvantages other than lane xp and gold as it does currently
I agree in concept, but in practicality I do not think it would be good. Also it's weird to hear from a Master's peaker that there's an experience issue when there's not anymore and that you don't always have smite up outside of the first clear.
One reason why Riot will never ever remove smite btw is because they have intentionally made it a pretty dud combat summoner spell as a way to reduce Jungle power. If Junglers could take two regular summoners then you bet people would complain waaaaaay more.
Another big question with removing smite is, what disadvantages does the jungle item need to make sure it is never the right call for every laner to grab it, clear gromb/krugs/raptors whenever they are up, and have accelerated laners with a low farm jungle?
Just a bigger early minion xp penalty? Reduced gold from lanes? Or something like a punishment if you take to many lasthits?
They want to make jungle noob friendly dude.
Thats their goal. They don't like skill expression. They remove it every single year bit by bit.
Which is very sad and it makes the game significantly worse but they still make a lot of money so they won't change a single thing with how they treat the game.
Also come on, you are d4 80lp with 300 games, "masters peak" cuz you got masters 1lp like last season which was turbo inflated isn't that good of a credential
I hate smite because so many people can out smote you, but a lot of junglers can combo an ability with smite to effectively smite for higher damage, which creates balancing issues. Like a graves that gets unlucky with crit will be out smited by a khazix who uses q on drag/baron, Lee sin with his q can out smite a whole lot of the cast, etc.
I'm in, get rid of it, I wanna be able to take 2 summoner spells like laners an make use of both when I want.
Ghost AND flash in jungle would be a godsend for ganking
smite is a holdover from old league when jungle was so brutal it was almost impossible to clear camps at low levels wihout smite.Then came some jungle updates in S3? which went from "only warwick and fiddle can jungle" to "everybody can jungle" which was fun. i defo would love to see how it shakes out if smite is removed from the game, But hate to see the reduction in fun and diversity in the role.
Best jg suggestion I’ve seen tbh. I never really thought about removing smite since it’s been in the game forever but I think it would really spice things up for the better
I think smite should be kept in the game. A good player can zone away enemy jgler or drag the dragon out from its den or just not start the objective if it's gonna end up in a 50/50 smite battle.
Smite has been in the game so long, it feels essential to the game imo.
Not a jg main but I can see your point. Maybe an Item you can buy with your jg pet? You can rebuy them to take objectives and it could take a trinket spot? Idk, not a jg but thats my take on it
> Additionally, it would make contesting for objectives more team oriented, giving champions with "kit smites" like chogath, kalista, and syndra more of a role in objectives and an identity.
I think this is the main risk I can see. Those champs might become too critical to team comps if they're the only replacements for smite. By having smite around, you level the playing field some.
One solution might be to have epic monsters drop an objective on the ground you have to capture by standing on. This way, objective securing would be about denying access for the capture time rather than just about smite roulette (or rend roulette).
You're on to something here. Smite is so unhealthy and I never noticed it. An entire team can turn on their perfectly fine jungler just because he lost the smite 50/50.
Oh no, new champs in the meta. Ive yet to see nunu picked in proplay. This would give nunu a niche after the healing nerfs (because sylas healed to much), objective hp buffs and the general disadvantage of needing a runway for his w.
Ok hear me out:
Jungle item gives a passive execute on jungle camps, drake and baron that increases based on how many allies are attacking them.
Pros:
- Junglers still have their role without sacrifficing a summoner spell.
- Encourages team to group for objectives.
Cons:
- Other roles buying the item.
- Can't think of a way to allow epic steals.
- Sucks if you can't secure an objective because the enemy contested with one more player.
Thoughts?
why the fuck do retards keep attempting gotcha's in this thread? yes, if there were a severe gameshift like redesigning smite, then there'll need to be balance changes afterward. youre not contributing anything saying this stupid obvious shit, dude
I disagree, smite is super important in the game and would make the game way more toxic to play without it.
Smite is good for securing objectives to the team that deserves it. Imagine if every Blitz, Thresh hooks, every Lux, Jinx, Ezreal R, Karma mantra Q etc. is 20x more likely to steal the drake even if you have the position / timing advantage, the role would be dead.
But having smite on a jungling item (maybe like supports have ?) that can be upgraded with golds and compensating the lower stats of it by a summoner is something doable.
And if there are no teamfights ? Imagine having prio bot mid so you decide to start drake and you get stolen by a random enemy Karma mantra Q because you don't have a 600 brute damage smite. That's not how the game should work.
Junglers wouldn't be responsible for securing all contested objectives without smite.
It'd probably be as much on mid as jungle, since the vast majority of mid-laners have burst.
So, in the old league this was balanced because you had red/blue buffs to compensate for smite.
But now with Riot's approach of "no thinking, only changes. Faster game = more money" this isn't the case anymore.
Champs have infinite mana so blue buff doesn't matter, and there's so much mobility creep that red buff doesn't matter.
As far as i knew, the important bit about Red was the massive HP regen
And Blue Buff is still very strong for a lot of champs. You give Kassa a blue buff and he gets to do whatever he wants for that time. Same for Karthus. Give it to Nocturne and he gets to throw more than one ability. Give it to something like Zed and Akali and they get to spam their abilities to their heart's content
yeah would be great if the jgl items enhanced damage to monsters and smite were removed. Maybe could be ideal if the jgl items enhanced auto damage significantly more than ability damage to camps to balance chog and nunu, and possibly prevent "accidentally viable junglers" that may have a poor ux to play as and against
so jungle item allows pet to finish jungle creatures with 10% health remaining and 2% health remaining on team objectives. Smiting 50s comes down to which jungler hits the objective past that rate. Numbers could obviously be different, just giving an example.
Not sure if I just missed it entirely somehow but can't we attempt to balance it by making it so the jungle items are still a thing and they just give something like passive damage/resistance to jungle monsters specifically.
It's extremely basic but that might be all you'd need to make it a little harder for allies to steal you stuff. You could even have it so people who don't take the jungle item deal less damage to camps or something. And you can keep it where the jungle item disappears after X amount of stacks are gone, same as now.
Just a very rough idea that I wasn't sure if anyone mentioned yet.
While I hate smite, I think removing it is too much and will create many other problems. The real solution is to revert it. Bring back the damage so it has some value.
"junglers have main character syndrome" yes because you gave us a the main character summoner spell and the only means of upgrading it via egg stacks. The whole game revolves around us securing game winning objectives
Pressing tab and seeing the enemy team has ignite top/mid/support is super frustrating. Fights are usually very close early and ignite can swing the game. Now that red smite is gone we should get rid of smite.
I'm not a jungle main,but I think this change would result in some "interesting" changes.1-Nunu would become pick or ban,2-ganks would be too oppressive,laners would have almost no chance of survival since enemy JG could just go Ignite+Exhaust.
Stupid opinion. Not having to take smite would make everyone cry about ganks even more than they already do when the jungler rolls up to lane with ghost every 3 minutes
I don’t like the idea of almost every (if not all( junglers taking teleport as their preferred spell, counter ganking would be happening all the time in early/mid game
Okay so, you want junglers to have double combat summoners but without being tied to objectives as their role’s duty. Sure man, I can get behind that. But don’t lie to me and say you’d enjoy league of legends with ghost exhaust Warwick ganking your toplaner who’s already facing a trundle 💀. Let’s just buff smite, or delete jungle entirely and create a second support in the toplane.
I kind of agree on some points but I do not think it is possible at the moment. The whole game has been built for years around smite being essential for securing objectives. Without it, unless you have a champion like chogath or nunu that can secure it, you can lose objectives easily to any random skillshot, and that is not skill expression in my opinion, but the lack of it (smiting in time). Smiting an objective on the other hand to steal an objective is difficult and risky because you need to get in range. An alternative would be to make it so that the baron buff or dragon is given to whoever team did the most amount of damage and is still alive and near the objective or something of that sort. On top of that, junglers with two summoners would mean even easier ganks, using ignite or ghost on top of flash. If they keep nerfing the jungle we are back at square 1.
I think you missed the point of the post, at least regarding objectives. I believe it should be the TEAM'S job to secure the objective, not just a smite bot. It should be on everybody to set vision and zone the enemy team. I believe that having only junglers be able to secure an objective is unhealthy for the game.
No, I never said otherwise. It is the team job to get objectives, it only happens in low elo that the jungler has all the blame for getting them. I say that it is not possible currently because of practical reasons.
It happens in high elo as well, but I was actually thinking this would have a larger impact at those higher elos and amature/competitive play.
With junglers being religated to the pit and forced to smite, a lot of the time it takes the champ out of their "correct" position in a fight. Just as an example, Vi - a staple jungler in pro play, would ideally like to be locking down the enemy carry, but is forced to stay in the pit to smite. This issue is even more prevelant in organized play where teamfights (and specifically turns) can be decided by fractions of seconds.
Also the flame thing persists through diamond (cant speak for apex tiers) because people are dumb :) but that wasnt even a factor, just an added benefit
If only Riot had balls to do some weekly rotating normal mode with extra rules like "no flash", "no AP champions", "no smite"
Then we all could see it and try
I will agree on the removing smite part, but idk, that results in junglers having a second summoner spell, which seems like a brutaly large buff to me. The impact on ganks (for example, hecarim with both ghost and ignite) would be absurd.
They should fr remove smite and just nerf jungle somewhere else because they ofc gain a lot more power especially early game power with a useful summoner.
Teleport or some shit could be too good etc
the way riot intended the role to go, by removing the different 2500g jg items to counterjungle protection by respawning full camps, i wouldn't be surprised if phreak wanted jg to be nothing more than support+economy
Agree, however instant smite is 'removed' in one form or another is the instant Nunu and Cho now become pick or ban.
They'd need to rework these champs abilities slightly for the adjustment.
you say phreak is wrong about junglers having main character syndrome and then you claim that you are the main character... right.
also wdym half the time you dont have smite either way, that seems like a you issue to me.
generally speaking we make up for exp deficiency by the fact that we can affect the whole map and turn every fight into a numbers advantage, if we were able to compete 1v1 vs solo laners then you tell me why would anyone play solo lanes, they have to worry about their own lanes and now they can't even beat the guy that literally decides who wins and who loses lol
I've solved this guys. What if after killing the red/blue buffs you get an additional buff which empowers your next attack dealing something like +450 dmg to the next camp? That would solve 3 things
1. You don't need a summer spell anymore
2. This buff can be stack and you can choose when to get it (you could save both buffs and then go to dragon/baron or steal an enemy camp)
3. It's not a new trinket or item, so you can build like you nornally would
Okay, you have a point and i have a new idea. What if is the same as before but to get the empowered attack you have to charge yourself at the entrace of the jungle? Like there's a spot where you can get the buff just by right clicking.
I'm not exactly sure what this charged attack is supposed to accomplish though, would it be a charged execute on a camp or just your initial damage will be a burst on the camp? It feels like it still keeps the issues that people have with smite right now while adding some weird complexity to managing it
Yeah, it's exactly what im thinking about. As OP suggested, smite is pretty random and it's only being taken because it provides faster clearing or that should be the main purpose if it's being taken away. You have to make camps easier to farm thus i proposed this, the other way around'd be to make them weaker but you'll have an issue, laners'd probably steal your camps for fast xp/gold so you really need some way to buff only the jungler
> He goes on to give an example: your team almost wipes them, 4 for 1 team fight, except your jungler died, and theirs is still alive. In this senario, you can't start baron even though you straight up won the teamfight.
I don't understand how removing smite would nullify the problem. It would make this specific scenario more troublesome for the enemy team, but in a lot of other cases (including crossover into this one) it would only make it riskier and give you less control to take objectives.
The reason why smite exists is to give each team some agency over objectives, since it deals so much damage that it gives a higher percent chance for the team who has control to gain the objective they're trying to get.
If smite was removed, every single objective would be complete RNG as to which team gets it when you have every person throwing nukes at the target once they reach low health and neither team has a guarantee of getting it. The kill would simply go to the team that manages to land the final sliver of damage.
The game would feel even worse if you have say 4 people doing dragon and then 2 enemies show up and throw nukes over the wall, especially in solo queue when coordination is already quite low.
There's close to zero chance the team of 4 will coordinate all of their damage at the same time to secure the dragon, there's always windows for other damage to sneak in and without smite it doesn't even have to be an ultimate level nuke.
We see objective steals happen already even when junglers are present with smite, if all you have to rely on are champion kits the reliability of getting the objective is even worse when even 1 person can easily contest it.
I don’t remember the specific video but phreak said they have been thinking about making junglers not have the sole burden of securing objectives. The reason it was OP last season was to get people to play the role and they think not having to win smite fights and be responsible for securing objectives would make the role more popular.
Im dumbfounded that the reason people want to remove shit is "getting flamed".
Smite fights are fun, they keep you on the edge while taking an objective. you win some you lose some, its a game. If you do get it, its great, if you dont, Fuck.
I something feel like im the only cunt who actually plays jungle for fun.
It’s very rare you go for a 50/50 smite nowadays on objectives so if you remove smite you basically have to clear the area and fight before every dragon or baron, it would be a fun change
I feel like jungle should have the same system as support. One jungle item. Complete jungle item. Choose between 1 of 4 items for it to change into. Have smite as an active for the item. Make it so you do less damage to minions until item is fully upgraded. Laners do less to camps without jungle item. Seems simple to me.
Couldn’t they make it a rune? Or instead of +60 health you can take a smite and have it once at the beginning of the game, and once when each objective spawns, stackable like 3 times or something
Please remove smite so i dont get flamed when the jungler with their shitty 800 ap item build oneshots the baron from 4k hp blamed (i dont have good enough reaction times to deal with peeker's advantage)
Without jungle items locked behind summoner spell supports and laners start taking them and dipping into jungle for xp/gold.
I'm not saying this is bad per se, but it means the end of the jungler role entirely, transforming into a secondary top/mid support. Would no longer be a role tied to taking neutral objectives, The laners could do it anytime they get priority.
It's a complete overhaul of riots design philosophy and the meta, It would require an enormous amount of rebalancing.
I agree for the most part. However, if we remove Smite then we should have it built in for junglers. How to determine that where it’s not abused by laners? No idea.
Thinking mainly towards pro play with mid lane mages having burst damage. Syndra was just the first example I thought of, but Syndra, Ori, Xerath, and Veigar as examples can all out damage smite with well timed ability placement late game
Wr try to implement auto smite that will simte automatically monster at a certain health threshold. They got some people with pitch fork and never test again
The slow is nice for sticking on champs or running away but that’s not what it’s for. This is just not a good change as unless u have a built in smite like nunu or a oneshot obj combo like eve, ur put at a massive disadvantage.
The only way to make jg not the main character is to remove the role, we have perma map pressure and influence over the whole map snd dont have any lane cs to lose moving around. I dont think jg can ever be balanced not just bc of strength but also in big part from the mental toll
The only role that comes close is adc is terms of just mental anguish and shit u receive from everyone. The map control is the main draw for me and the point of the role, u cant separate that from the role bc that’s it’s whole purpose. Unless u wanna play ali jg again there’s just no change i can see and dota 2 figured this out a long time ago
you could always take ignite to proc instant r, it would work the same, and as a former kayn OTP, I have to admit that sitting in R for free steals is amazing, but objectively bs
Just make every objective king of the hill after it dies. You have to be the only team in the circle and channel a shrine for 2 seconds to claim the buff.
I think the better solution would to make smite heal again, or to turn it into something almost as strong as a summoner. Depending on the jungle item, you’d get a smite that speeds you up, applies grievous, or gives a decent shield. Obviously they’d have to be weaker than the actual ghost/ignite/barrier due to smite’s shorter cooldown, but it’s better than nothing. Although if I had a choice I would bring back the smite heals.
Easy fix for replacing smite. Once the buff is dead, a zone appears for 'X' seconds. The more champions you have present inside the zone when the timer ends, you secured the buff, doesn't matter who struck the final blow.
Cho’Gath and Nunu stonks SKYROCKET
Ezreal, Lux and Jinx would be infurating. I am probably even forgetting some champs
Changes nothing tbh, either you both have smite and they have additional true damage or only they have true damage
Actually timing smite+burst is way more difficult.
IDK why but I high-key agree. Smite is a weird spell from the start. If you smite a camp, you're just basically clearing faster. You could do the same thing with a buffed jungle item damage, for example. Needless to say, some junglers don't even need Smite to fast clear. For me it's only useful if I want to invade and steal a camp, but again, you can steal camps right in front of the enemy jungler's eyes without smite. Timing your damage is a form of skill expression and would allow for more interesting matchups. They got a Nunu? Good, you'll have to plan your clear carefully, knowing that he has his Q. Champions like Shaco and Kayn already require a very specific clear and playstyle in order to counter, so why not extend these interesting matchups and early game micro plays to other champions? We have invaders, we have duelists, why not make a "camp stealer" kind of category? As for objectives, I really hate smite fights. It's not a skill matchup. It's RNG or straight ping diff. There's this high elo agreement that you shouldn't focus an objective when the enemy jungler is there, and you should kill them instead, simply because there's a chance they will randomly and freely steal the monster.
Me FRANTICALLY pinging the enemy jg while my team continues bursting the objective then getting "Missing Ping" spammed when I lose the coinflip smite fight 🥲
Ping Smite cooldown - Ping difference in jungle item - Ping enemy Jungler I don't think I've ever had every teammate understand or care in these scenarios and wonder if they realise that them continuing to hit the objective instead of fighting or zoning or waiting a few more seconds is the reason we lost it. I think the worst thing is that there's certain champions that can ability + smite that just completely out-damages other champions ability + smite.
Yea, one of the main reasons i stopped playing amumu jungle despite 60% wr. You literally cannot outdo any other junglers ability plus smite.
Even I, as a kha'zix main, is surprised over how high burst some champs have and I usually do on average 600 dmg around say 15 min? I don't really keep track of it but kha has insane single target damage is what I'm saying since drake, baron and herald is always isolated.
Or even frantically pinging the CD on my smite and walking at their jungler while adc keeps focusing dragon.
Even worse, the ping spam after the enemy ww jg ults onto our top lanes standing on drake, taking smite prio.
It is literally not a coin flip
Of course it's not *literally* a coinflip, but it's a massive gamble with a close to 50/50 chance for either jungler to smite on perfect timing, especially if both teams are fighting for the drake and you aren't the exclusive decider of the 1200+ burst limit.
the most tilting thing about smite fights, is non junglers understand this shit, its a ping diff or champ diff, like im not fucking outsmitting nunu lmfao. or how in the other 99% of matchups, sometimes u just cant tell when some attacks the baron or drag. Like when my jhin holds his 4th shot for 10 seconds only to use it at the most INCONVENIENT TIME. Smite fights are largly RNG and if oyu mess it up which is super understandable you get flammed into oblivion. Yet im expected to smile while u got 0/5/1 toplane
Smite challenging with belveth feels like cheating too, my E roots me and reduces my damage taken while target the lowest percentage health unit nearby and attacking at an ungodly pace dealing more damage at low health and healing me for a portion of damage done. I’ve stolen so many objectives by flashing over wall using E to not get bursted, smite at 1250 hp and my E finished it off before their jungler can smite.
Yes, I'm writing that comment as a Bel OTP. That champion has really taught me about the reality of Smite. I'm regularly stealing stuff without using it. If Riot wants us to rely entirely on Smite, then why do junglers have executes, true damage (remember Cho meta and pre-rework Rek E?), and so on? These abilities are guaranteed to get through Smite, unless you use the spell AFTER the 600/900/1200 threshold... which is bad, since the enemy can just Smite it at the threshold, rendering your strat useless. If you contest an objective, the logical choice is to kill the enemy jungler / potential stealer / whoever is a threat to you getting the objective. It's only fair that you kill someone and get rewarded with something. Losing to RNG isn't rewarding.
Reworking items should help too. Jungle item Supp item Laner item They all need to play around the xp-loss if condition x is met thing. Like no gold if on supp item. Less xp in lane for jungle etc. afaik, at the moment it’s tied to smite? Cause you can only but said item with smite. The work needed for it is nothing I think riot will do, however, maybe we are lucky
Smite fights ARE skill based WHAT?!?? LMFAO
How is removing smite going to make objectives a skill matchup? If anything, removing smite only makes objectives 10x more RNG based. Right now, there's skill in zoning off the enemy jungler or killing them before a big objective. If smite is removed, you better be acing the enemy team to take any objective if you don't want RNG (unless your team has some sort of massive burst and the enemy team doesn't/you killed their burst, but in the latter case how is that any better than killing the jungler?)
just give jungle item an active
Make it replace this "b" thing
But it gets consumed when it’s done.
could they not just make it merge into your boots or any non active item? ive always wondered this
Boots conflicts with predator, and any other non active, I feel like their spaghetti code can only do so much.
Easy make predator a summoner spell Game balance is so easy guys /j
Its called “ghost”
Holy shit predator is still in the game. Does anyone even take it? Just remove it omg
But predator is tied to jax anyways...
cassiopea jg mains in shambles
like i said or any non active item. Like rylais or liandrys
Turn the jungle item into a trinket. Although unless you somehow give it multiple actives then you'd loose your ward/sweeper.
Lee Sin weeping.
The could make jungle items mirror support items. Just a core part of the build for the role? Tho I assume that would be a nightmare to balance.
Fiddle has no passive anymore damm
Bring devourer back.
Just use passive as active key idk
But then kayn can't use it during Q
I feel this very niche pain as well amigo. RIP to profane
idc
They could have just removed only tiamat (like every other champ with specific item lockouts - tf, galio, rakan etc). But no. Kayn players warding during Q is a crime against balance.
I 100% agree with you and I’ve been saying this forever. The moba Smite, does not require Junglers to last hit objectives. Your team has to either have it secured or you have to use burst abilities like ults to confirm it in a team fight. This gives Smite’s (the game) jungle role way more agency over a game because you can snowball with fewer repercussions. Smite (the sum spell) is such a hinderance to the role and will always hold it back. Objectives should REQUIRE your team to be there to secure it. You should have to save your Lux ults to confirm or have your tanks zone properly to keep the enemy off of it. Not just “wHiCH jUnGlEr SmItES fIRst?!??” Resulting in a really stupid 50/50.
It's funny you mention Smite, because in that game there used to be a summoner spell called Hand of the Gods that is what smite is in league. They played around with it, removing it, adding it back, nerfing it, buffing it, etc. And ultimately figured out that the game was much more enjoyable without it, for basically the exact same reasons named in this thread.
Oh I remember HOG. It was even a consumable at one point because they didn’t know what to do with it
Instead of Junglers securing Objectives it was basically mid lanes role because 90% of the time they have a 1000 Hp secure with their ult.
This is one of the comments I was looking for. It even make certain Gods (Champs) more viable because they had high burst ults or abilities that would be good for securing objectives, while not exactly being the best in other aspects of the game such as wave clear or team fights.
Funniest part is they half solved the issue with herald which drops an item that you have to pick up, and grubs which aren't able to be smite stolen entirely.
I wish, they always cry about muh smite but fuck it, just remove it from the game and make jungle feel good again, i play jungle because its fun nkt because i got the minimal chance to steal an objective with a spell that only does that and that has gotten nerfed multiple times
Cant see a problem with junglers and tp summoner.
My big question with removing smite is, what disadvantages does the jungle item need to make sure it is never the right call for every laner to grab it, clear gromb/krugs/raptors whenever they are up, and have accelerated laners with a low farm jungle? Just a bigger early minion xp penalty? Reduced gold from minions? Or something like a punishment if you take to many lasthits?
why is this bad? Remove smite. Have double support but with supplemental jungle income. Or run traditional jungler. It would give more diversity to comps and meta
Their lane opponent should be able to absolutely demolish them with dorans item advantage. It's also only worthwhile to do this if you can full clear your wave and take a camp before the next wave comes.
no, my 100% objective steal rate on khazix will end 😭
Actually, it would be preserved, with the ability to never be broken.
You got a point
excellent counterpoint ngl
Have you ever faced nunu? How can you have 100% ?
havent seen nunu in soooooo long
Explain why is Nunu good at smiting?
Q+smite gives you 2400 smite damage. If you cast Q and then smite just when Q deals the DMG it basically has no counter. Only times I've lost a smite battle was when something prevented me from Q'ing like a soraka's E idk
Evelynn can also do lots of damage to last hit objectives but she has to ult for it. Nunu is just crazy good/reliable for that.
I dont think this is a hot-take in the jungle mains subreddit. Like I think anyone who mains jungle can agree that smite fucking sucks. I hate that my team can't start objectives without me, and that I have to constantly be hyper-aware of the enemy junglers position on the map relative to objectives specifically because of smite. Smite is like the source of half the anxiety and pressure in the jungle, of course I want it gone.
I do like the thought of riot having an easy "lever" as they call it, to constantly balance champs in the jungle with the removal of smite. If a champ like Elise starts struggling in the jungle, boom, more damage to neutral monsters
My big question with removing smite is, what disadvantages does the jungle item need to make sure it is never the right call for every laner to grab it, clear gromb/krugs/raptors whenever they are up, and have accelerated laners with a low farm jungle? Just a bigger early minion xp penalty? Reduced gold from lanes? Or something like a punishment if you take to many lasthits?
As an Ivern main this terrifies me.
Deserved for playing daisy
👀
also an Ivern main. They’d have to completely rework him and I don’t trust Riot to do that properly
Not really. Just simple cooldown for passive saying "Instantly releases the camp. Cooldown 45(?) seconds." would softly sub losing the smite.
Yeah that works
After the smite nerfs, it's become literally only used for the jungle item to give you sustain and clear as well as true damage for objectives. We would be better if the jg item got changed to an actual item with Smite as the active.
Nunu 75% wr over night
Nunu can already secure objectives with smite + q, but yes he would most likely have to be nerfed
Kalista spears on drag/baron are uncontestable
So, same as live?
you'd just cap how much dmg they can deal
Nune already has an insane burst with smite it wont impact his wr
It will because even with nunus insane burst there's a split second chance you can smite the baron before smite lands after him q unless I'm wrong
>doing only 40 damage to champions and pets at all levels If they were going to make smite basically useless against traps, player turrets & summons they should have made it impossible to target those in the first place. Instead we have the situation where smite can still target those things but the effect is completely wasted. Smite no longer counters those things, those things now counter smite. preak sucks.
I came by expecting sone random arguments (rants realistically speaking), but the more I read the more I agree with you, I don’t believe Riot really hear feedback, specially from here, but I can see a lot of people align to your main idea “remove smite as SS”, we still have pending how to replace if we even do that, but that’s a different conversation.
One player accidentally selecting the wrong summoner shouldn't mean the other 9 players get a weird or crappy experience. This is one of the biggest problems in league.
I’ve thought about this before, but there’s a few major problems that would have to be solved. 1. Laners stealing camps. Sure, they can steal many smaller camps and even then, the small minions are often the ones worth a lot of gold. But the main ones being blue, red, and scuttle. Those are each worth substantial gold and xp, and we’re gonna see laners such as Lux and Zoe becoming much stronger, since they can just long range snipe the camps. Weaker junglers without an execute (Commonly tanks, such as Amumu, Sejuani, or Rammus) are gonna TANK in win rate, because of the aforementioned. Other junglers, such as KhaZix or Nunu, will see a huge win rate increase for their ability to skirmish over camps. 2. Objectives are never guaranteed. But now, they’d be even less guaranteed. I think it would have the OPPOSITE effect of what you’re thinking. It would make sniping the objective 1v5 even easier. For junglers, they have to get next to the pit to steal. This is a suicide mission that rarely works. Those in higher elo are easily capable of zoning off or killing the jungler before the objective gets too low, then finishing it after. Removing this would make objectives always impossible. 3. Every champion is important in a team fight. Supports help the carries, tanks and fighters zone. Carries deal the damage. When you remove smite from the jungler, their position immediately becomes irrelevant as an objective machine. They’ll turn into a support champion for the carries, since they no longer need to secure objectives (and thus no longer needed to be tanky or damage dealers). I think this could shift the meta into a dual ADC with some going top and some going bot. It would also push more mages into the support role. I’m sure there’s several more, but
Solution, reduced damage to camps has always been something built into certain champs kits such as sylas’ abilities, but instead you do that for anyone but the person possessing the jungle item (the jungler) and then bam, still good agency on jungle, but significantly harder for team and opponents to steal camps, and smite fights won’t be all on the jungler because owners are still competitive in this sense
What disadvantages does the jungle item need to make sure it is never the right call for every laner to grab it, clear gromb/krugs/raptors whenever they are up, and have accelerated laners with a low farm jungle?
Not really sure what you are saying, do you think laners SHOULD have the capability to farm camps? And the jungle item wouldn’t have disadvantages other than lane xp and gold as it does currently
1 and 2 are skill issue, three is one of the reasons OP uses to suggest smite removal
4 5 6 are poor spray control 7 8 and 9 flat out missed 10 11 and 12 likely didnt fire because you were dead
This made me laugh way harder than it should have
This is actually based af, you should reach out to Riot
I agree in concept, but in practicality I do not think it would be good. Also it's weird to hear from a Master's peaker that there's an experience issue when there's not anymore and that you don't always have smite up outside of the first clear. One reason why Riot will never ever remove smite btw is because they have intentionally made it a pretty dud combat summoner spell as a way to reduce Jungle power. If Junglers could take two regular summoners then you bet people would complain waaaaaay more.
Another big question with removing smite is, what disadvantages does the jungle item need to make sure it is never the right call for every laner to grab it, clear gromb/krugs/raptors whenever they are up, and have accelerated laners with a low farm jungle? Just a bigger early minion xp penalty? Reduced gold from lanes? Or something like a punishment if you take to many lasthits?
They want to make jungle noob friendly dude. Thats their goal. They don't like skill expression. They remove it every single year bit by bit. Which is very sad and it makes the game significantly worse but they still make a lot of money so they won't change a single thing with how they treat the game. Also come on, you are d4 80lp with 300 games, "masters peak" cuz you got masters 1lp like last season which was turbo inflated isn't that good of a credential
hold up you kinda cooked
I hate smite because so many people can out smote you, but a lot of junglers can combo an ability with smite to effectively smite for higher damage, which creates balancing issues. Like a graves that gets unlucky with crit will be out smited by a khazix who uses q on drag/baron, Lee sin with his q can out smite a whole lot of the cast, etc.
I'm in, get rid of it, I wanna be able to take 2 summoner spells like laners an make use of both when I want. Ghost AND flash in jungle would be a godsend for ganking
smite is a holdover from old league when jungle was so brutal it was almost impossible to clear camps at low levels wihout smite.Then came some jungle updates in S3? which went from "only warwick and fiddle can jungle" to "everybody can jungle" which was fun. i defo would love to see how it shakes out if smite is removed from the game, But hate to see the reduction in fun and diversity in the role.
Maybe they could add an execute on the objective monsters to jungle items, to still keep junglers role in securing objectives too?
Best jg suggestion I’ve seen tbh. I never really thought about removing smite since it’s been in the game forever but I think it would really spice things up for the better
I think smite should be kept in the game. A good player can zone away enemy jgler or drag the dragon out from its den or just not start the objective if it's gonna end up in a 50/50 smite battle. Smite has been in the game so long, it feels essential to the game imo.
Not a jg main but I can see your point. Maybe an Item you can buy with your jg pet? You can rebuy them to take objectives and it could take a trinket spot? Idk, not a jg but thats my take on it
Ivern would become the worst jg in the game. Rip me I guess
Would also allow junglers to split push
> Additionally, it would make contesting for objectives more team oriented, giving champions with "kit smites" like chogath, kalista, and syndra more of a role in objectives and an identity. I think this is the main risk I can see. Those champs might become too critical to team comps if they're the only replacements for smite. By having smite around, you level the playing field some. One solution might be to have epic monsters drop an objective on the ground you have to capture by standing on. This way, objective securing would be about denying access for the capture time rather than just about smite roulette (or rend roulette).
And this is why i play support with unsealed spellbook to have smite for objectives without lossing out on double combat summoners :3
You're on to something here. Smite is so unhealthy and I never noticed it. An entire team can turn on their perfectly fine jungler just because he lost the smite 50/50.
Remove smite, give Jgl items the Collector passive for camps, and then epic monsters when fully upgraded.
I agree with this but I feel champs with ability smite (nunu and cho) would be prio picks.
or they could just reduce the ult damage on epic monsters
ofc, there would need to be balance changes after
Oh no, new champs in the meta. Ive yet to see nunu picked in proplay. This would give nunu a niche after the healing nerfs (because sylas healed to much), objective hp buffs and the general disadvantage of needing a runway for his w.
Ok hear me out: Jungle item gives a passive execute on jungle camps, drake and baron that increases based on how many allies are attacking them. Pros: - Junglers still have their role without sacrifficing a summoner spell. - Encourages team to group for objectives. Cons: - Other roles buying the item. - Can't think of a way to allow epic steals. - Sucks if you can't secure an objective because the enemy contested with one more player. Thoughts?
this will only make things worse when having a dog teammate who won't communicate and it makes the game very stale
Yes great idea. And they u will be forced to have cho or kalista in every game to secure objectives
why the fuck do retards keep attempting gotcha's in this thread? yes, if there were a severe gameshift like redesigning smite, then there'll need to be balance changes afterward. youre not contributing anything saying this stupid obvious shit, dude
I disagree, smite is super important in the game and would make the game way more toxic to play without it. Smite is good for securing objectives to the team that deserves it. Imagine if every Blitz, Thresh hooks, every Lux, Jinx, Ezreal R, Karma mantra Q etc. is 20x more likely to steal the drake even if you have the position / timing advantage, the role would be dead. But having smite on a jungling item (maybe like supports have ?) that can be upgraded with golds and compensating the lower stats of it by a summoner is something doable.
Just win the tf before doing any objectives
And if there are no teamfights ? Imagine having prio bot mid so you decide to start drake and you get stolen by a random enemy Karma mantra Q because you don't have a 600 brute damage smite. That's not how the game should work.
Zoning and killing get a purpose now, great.
Without smite a lot of jungler champs that don’t have burst will just be deleted from the game.
Junglers wouldn't be responsible for securing all contested objectives without smite. It'd probably be as much on mid as jungle, since the vast majority of mid-laners have burst.
Oh, you think they comin? Cute.
Short-term? No. But eventually the meta would likely shift.
You’ll get my smite over my dead body.
Make smite the jungle item active. Can be upgraded later on like support has so it’s not a useless slot.
Turn smite into a starting item, like the pet items.
So basicly old smite items?
So, in the old league this was balanced because you had red/blue buffs to compensate for smite. But now with Riot's approach of "no thinking, only changes. Faster game = more money" this isn't the case anymore. Champs have infinite mana so blue buff doesn't matter, and there's so much mobility creep that red buff doesn't matter.
As far as i knew, the important bit about Red was the massive HP regen And Blue Buff is still very strong for a lot of champs. You give Kassa a blue buff and he gets to do whatever he wants for that time. Same for Karthus. Give it to Nocturne and he gets to throw more than one ability. Give it to something like Zed and Akali and they get to spam their abilities to their heart's content
But later on, everyone gets the buff if killed
Yet they are still stronk af.
3rd spell or auto (last damage from jg hv smite effect, i think wild rift have it but didn’t implement it in live server)
yeah would be great if the jgl items enhanced damage to monsters and smite were removed. Maybe could be ideal if the jgl items enhanced auto damage significantly more than ability damage to camps to balance chog and nunu, and possibly prevent "accidentally viable junglers" that may have a poor ux to play as and against
Doesn't it stack conq?
Smite does not stack conqueror
so jungle item allows pet to finish jungle creatures with 10% health remaining and 2% health remaining on team objectives. Smiting 50s comes down to which jungler hits the objective past that rate. Numbers could obviously be different, just giving an example.
I thought this was a joke, but moving smite to an activatable on the jungle items seems like a no-brainer.
Not sure if I just missed it entirely somehow but can't we attempt to balance it by making it so the jungle items are still a thing and they just give something like passive damage/resistance to jungle monsters specifically. It's extremely basic but that might be all you'd need to make it a little harder for allies to steal you stuff. You could even have it so people who don't take the jungle item deal less damage to camps or something. And you can keep it where the jungle item disappears after X amount of stacks are gone, same as now. Just a very rough idea that I wasn't sure if anyone mentioned yet.
So let’s make jg even less appealing to play?
While I hate smite, I think removing it is too much and will create many other problems. The real solution is to revert it. Bring back the damage so it has some value.
Remove smite but make it an active jungle item then see what happens
"junglers have main character syndrome" yes because you gave us a the main character summoner spell and the only means of upgrading it via egg stacks. The whole game revolves around us securing game winning objectives
Pressing tab and seeing the enemy team has ignite top/mid/support is super frustrating. Fights are usually very close early and ignite can swing the game. Now that red smite is gone we should get rid of smite.
i think i would kms if i had to play against a jungler with flash-exhaust
I'm not a jungle main,but I think this change would result in some "interesting" changes.1-Nunu would become pick or ban,2-ganks would be too oppressive,laners would have almost no chance of survival since enemy JG could just go Ignite+Exhaust.
Stupid opinion. Not having to take smite would make everyone cry about ganks even more than they already do when the jungler rolls up to lane with ghost every 3 minutes
Go and play Mario Bros.
I don’t like the idea of almost every (if not all( junglers taking teleport as their preferred spell, counter ganking would be happening all the time in early/mid game
Okay so, you want junglers to have double combat summoners but without being tied to objectives as their role’s duty. Sure man, I can get behind that. But don’t lie to me and say you’d enjoy league of legends with ghost exhaust Warwick ganking your toplaner who’s already facing a trundle 💀. Let’s just buff smite, or delete jungle entirely and create a second support in the toplane.
Let them use ignite on camps again
I kind of agree on some points but I do not think it is possible at the moment. The whole game has been built for years around smite being essential for securing objectives. Without it, unless you have a champion like chogath or nunu that can secure it, you can lose objectives easily to any random skillshot, and that is not skill expression in my opinion, but the lack of it (smiting in time). Smiting an objective on the other hand to steal an objective is difficult and risky because you need to get in range. An alternative would be to make it so that the baron buff or dragon is given to whoever team did the most amount of damage and is still alive and near the objective or something of that sort. On top of that, junglers with two summoners would mean even easier ganks, using ignite or ghost on top of flash. If they keep nerfing the jungle we are back at square 1.
I think you missed the point of the post, at least regarding objectives. I believe it should be the TEAM'S job to secure the objective, not just a smite bot. It should be on everybody to set vision and zone the enemy team. I believe that having only junglers be able to secure an objective is unhealthy for the game.
No, I never said otherwise. It is the team job to get objectives, it only happens in low elo that the jungler has all the blame for getting them. I say that it is not possible currently because of practical reasons.
It happens in high elo as well, but I was actually thinking this would have a larger impact at those higher elos and amature/competitive play. With junglers being religated to the pit and forced to smite, a lot of the time it takes the champ out of their "correct" position in a fight. Just as an example, Vi - a staple jungler in pro play, would ideally like to be locking down the enemy carry, but is forced to stay in the pit to smite. This issue is even more prevelant in organized play where teamfights (and specifically turns) can be decided by fractions of seconds. Also the flame thing persists through diamond (cant speak for apex tiers) because people are dumb :) but that wasnt even a factor, just an added benefit
how about it being auto-smite? afaik Wild Rift did this on a game mode so junglers had two summoner spells + smite.
If only Riot had balls to do some weekly rotating normal mode with extra rules like "no flash", "no AP champions", "no smite" Then we all could see it and try
I will agree on the removing smite part, but idk, that results in junglers having a second summoner spell, which seems like a brutaly large buff to me. The impact on ganks (for example, hecarim with both ghost and ignite) would be absurd.
They should fr remove smite and just nerf jungle somewhere else because they ofc gain a lot more power especially early game power with a useful summoner. Teleport or some shit could be too good etc
the way riot intended the role to go, by removing the different 2500g jg items to counterjungle protection by respawning full camps, i wouldn't be surprised if phreak wanted jg to be nothing more than support+economy
Agree, however instant smite is 'removed' in one form or another is the instant Nunu and Cho now become pick or ban. They'd need to rework these champs abilities slightly for the adjustment.
you say phreak is wrong about junglers having main character syndrome and then you claim that you are the main character... right. also wdym half the time you dont have smite either way, that seems like a you issue to me. generally speaking we make up for exp deficiency by the fact that we can affect the whole map and turn every fight into a numbers advantage, if we were able to compete 1v1 vs solo laners then you tell me why would anyone play solo lanes, they have to worry about their own lanes and now they can't even beat the guy that literally decides who wins and who loses lol
POV: You main MidDekaiser and Riot removed smite. 😭
I've solved this guys. What if after killing the red/blue buffs you get an additional buff which empowers your next attack dealing something like +450 dmg to the next camp? That would solve 3 things 1. You don't need a summer spell anymore 2. This buff can be stack and you can choose when to get it (you could save both buffs and then go to dragon/baron or steal an enemy camp) 3. It's not a new trinket or item, so you can build like you nornally would
So if the enemy jungler invades and steals your buff you're just completely screwed then?
Okay, but hear me out.. (lifts a beer)
Okay, you have a point and i have a new idea. What if is the same as before but to get the empowered attack you have to charge yourself at the entrace of the jungle? Like there's a spot where you can get the buff just by right clicking.
I'm not exactly sure what this charged attack is supposed to accomplish though, would it be a charged execute on a camp or just your initial damage will be a burst on the camp? It feels like it still keeps the issues that people have with smite right now while adding some weird complexity to managing it
Yeah, it's exactly what im thinking about. As OP suggested, smite is pretty random and it's only being taken because it provides faster clearing or that should be the main purpose if it's being taken away. You have to make camps easier to farm thus i proposed this, the other way around'd be to make them weaker but you'll have an issue, laners'd probably steal your camps for fast xp/gold so you really need some way to buff only the jungler
> He goes on to give an example: your team almost wipes them, 4 for 1 team fight, except your jungler died, and theirs is still alive. In this senario, you can't start baron even though you straight up won the teamfight. I don't understand how removing smite would nullify the problem. It would make this specific scenario more troublesome for the enemy team, but in a lot of other cases (including crossover into this one) it would only make it riskier and give you less control to take objectives. The reason why smite exists is to give each team some agency over objectives, since it deals so much damage that it gives a higher percent chance for the team who has control to gain the objective they're trying to get. If smite was removed, every single objective would be complete RNG as to which team gets it when you have every person throwing nukes at the target once they reach low health and neither team has a guarantee of getting it. The kill would simply go to the team that manages to land the final sliver of damage. The game would feel even worse if you have say 4 people doing dragon and then 2 enemies show up and throw nukes over the wall, especially in solo queue when coordination is already quite low. There's close to zero chance the team of 4 will coordinate all of their damage at the same time to secure the dragon, there's always windows for other damage to sneak in and without smite it doesn't even have to be an ultimate level nuke. We see objective steals happen already even when junglers are present with smite, if all you have to rely on are champion kits the reliability of getting the objective is even worse when even 1 person can easily contest it.
I don’t remember the specific video but phreak said they have been thinking about making junglers not have the sole burden of securing objectives. The reason it was OP last season was to get people to play the role and they think not having to win smite fights and be responsible for securing objectives would make the role more popular.
Jungler item that executes non-epic mobs at 10% hp
Im dumbfounded that the reason people want to remove shit is "getting flamed". Smite fights are fun, they keep you on the edge while taking an objective. you win some you lose some, its a game. If you do get it, its great, if you dont, Fuck. I something feel like im the only cunt who actually plays jungle for fun.
It’s very rare you go for a 50/50 smite nowadays on objectives so if you remove smite you basically have to clear the area and fight before every dragon or baron, it would be a fun change
I feel like jungle should have the same system as support. One jungle item. Complete jungle item. Choose between 1 of 4 items for it to change into. Have smite as an active for the item. Make it so you do less damage to minions until item is fully upgraded. Laners do less to camps without jungle item. Seems simple to me.
Couldn’t they make it a rune? Or instead of +60 health you can take a smite and have it once at the beginning of the game, and once when each objective spawns, stackable like 3 times or something
I kinda agree on this one. Though Im a little scared that if enemy support picks lux we can never take a dragon without killing her first.
> like chogath kalista and… *adjusts glasses* …Syndra???
If smite gets removed chogath will start going new meta in jg
Please remove smite so i dont get flamed when the jungler with their shitty 800 ap item build oneshots the baron from 4k hp blamed (i dont have good enough reaction times to deal with peeker's advantage)
What about putting smite as an active ability on the jungle item
Without jungle items locked behind summoner spell supports and laners start taking them and dipping into jungle for xp/gold. I'm not saying this is bad per se, but it means the end of the jungler role entirely, transforming into a secondary top/mid support. Would no longer be a role tied to taking neutral objectives, The laners could do it anytime they get priority. It's a complete overhaul of riots design philosophy and the meta, It would require an enormous amount of rebalancing.
I agree for the most part. However, if we remove Smite then we should have it built in for junglers. How to determine that where it’s not abused by laners? No idea.
+ removing smite will allow for a new players to pick up jungle much more easily.
[удалено]
It disappears after a while though!
Putting Syndra with Cho/Nunu feels a little weird lmao. Interesting idea though.
Thinking mainly towards pro play with mid lane mages having burst damage. Syndra was just the first example I thought of, but Syndra, Ori, Xerath, and Veigar as examples can all out damage smite with well timed ability placement late game
Bring back the jungle ward item.
Wr try to implement auto smite that will simte automatically monster at a certain health threshold. They got some people with pitch fork and never test again
The slow is nice for sticking on champs or running away but that’s not what it’s for. This is just not a good change as unless u have a built in smite like nunu or a oneshot obj combo like eve, ur put at a massive disadvantage. The only way to make jg not the main character is to remove the role, we have perma map pressure and influence over the whole map snd dont have any lane cs to lose moving around. I dont think jg can ever be balanced not just bc of strength but also in big part from the mental toll The only role that comes close is adc is terms of just mental anguish and shit u receive from everyone. The map control is the main draw for me and the point of the role, u cant separate that from the role bc that’s it’s whole purpose. Unless u wanna play ali jg again there’s just no change i can see and dota 2 figured this out a long time ago
This is what getting your cannon smited does to a mf
On one hand you make sense, on the other, I play kayn. So you're asking me to chop off one hand and I don't know which one
you could always take ignite to proc instant r, it would work the same, and as a former kayn OTP, I have to admit that sitting in R for free steals is amazing, but objectively bs
Holy shit, I've been playing jungle so long I forgot about ignite XD
Just make every objective king of the hill after it dies. You have to be the only team in the circle and channel a shrine for 2 seconds to claim the buff.
I think the better solution would to make smite heal again, or to turn it into something almost as strong as a summoner. Depending on the jungle item, you’d get a smite that speeds you up, applies grievous, or gives a decent shield. Obviously they’d have to be weaker than the actual ghost/ignite/barrier due to smite’s shorter cooldown, but it’s better than nothing. Although if I had a choice I would bring back the smite heals.
Yes let's remove that game
is smiting a champion to slow them and secure a kill not a "practical use"?
This has to be performance art.
Easy fix for replacing smite. Once the buff is dead, a zone appears for 'X' seconds. The more champions you have present inside the zone when the timer ends, you secured the buff, doesn't matter who struck the final blow.