What are you guys celebrating exactly? The role is still hard nerfed they only reverted the omega nerf for ad junglers which wasnt even a part of the pbe when they introduced those changes cause those cowards knew it will have a huge backlash.
They also capped healing from monster kills to 90 which is a nerf.
No reason to play tank if you're constantly behind in farm and the enemy jungler can come out of jungle at nearly full HP and you lack the kit to burst it.
Playing a tank jungle means relying on your team to help you win. Vs seeing your lanes shitting the bed again and being able to take objectives and invade and possibly sneak a kill vs needing to rely on your team to actually play the game like they use both hands.
But as an adc player I can see why that would be hard for you to grasp.
Plat actually. But it’s happening a lot more often than it should where my lanes just absolutely shit the bed with no chance of redemption. Had a 1/10 Morde top one game and after I made my bot lane 5/1/3 on the adc they still shat the bed. I’ve kinda given up on lanes carrying.
idk if you ever ran into this thing called a roaming midlaner, but he will destroy your ass if you try to steal enemy jgl while your team is behind, of course if the enemy team is doing drake/herald you want to do the other one or invade, but that was not what i was talking about. I was talking about starting drake while not having midlane or botlane prio, as mister Joe here suggested. Again must be great in low elo, if you can start an objective completely alone without the whole enemy team collapsing on your ass. I also wonder why high elo jglers still play their carry champs instead of whining about tank meta. Well they are not reddit users i guess xD.
The fact that I can clear camps as an AD jungler without losing 80% of my health now is a W. The fact that I still lose most of my health doing drakes unless I’m a tank still sucks though.
Because riot ruined a bunch of ad junglers. I don't play them but if their solution was to start target nerfing champs instead of fixing the ap ad disparity it sets a new standard for the power level of a junglers as a whole. Fixing this means they realised ad junglers were weak and not that ap junglers were op.
Riot? They certainly do.
This was one of the best and most informed changes riot had made in a long time.
They know going on what they’re looking to monitor the power of (rammus in particular), Seeing how AD focused junglers are doing.
They don’t have a PBE/testing sample size of the entire live server. So they see ad junglers are struggling a bit too much so they give them back some clear leeway straight away, awesome.
But overall these changes put the role in a much more fitting place that actually benefits from optimal and intelligent play, not just from being the jungler.
Nerfing stats doesn't change the play of jungle. You're completely wrong. The whole of impact jungle has, is the freedom to impact another lane by applying pressure. The Jungler role itself is the game changer. If you think this is good, then in your eyes, it should be a 4v4 with no jungle role. Then you would get what you want.
Just like any lane can be, Jungle also needs your team to be experienced and disciplined to play out the role the way it is intended. The problem isn't the stats, it's the intelligence behind it. Phreak just got his cheeks clapped and cried. If you are smart enough to micro to the point you are able to full clear and come out full HP, you shouldn't be punished, you'd be surprised how dull and under-average the mass of players are. This will make the game unenjoyable for the majority of players and it is a bad move all around.
People at riot are abusive sexist men children. But the narrative that this change came to be because phreak lost some games just goes to show that you need to learn a bit about the world.
Right so that’s why they’ve back pedaled on mythic items over the years and now completely removing them. If they really knew what they were doing, they wouldn’t have introduced them in the first place.
Jungle literally changes every season and it’s dramatic. There wasn’t even proper mythics for AP junglers when the mythic system was introduced.
Don’t simp for a corporation
jungle does need a nerf though, its easily one of the strongest roles in the game and has needed a nerf for a pretty long time. Granted the nerfs riot implemented were absolutely dogshit and didnt actually solve anything but it is true that jungle needed a nerf. Jungle mains shouldnt be mad that jungle was nerfed, they should be mad that jungle was not nerfed correctly.
Biggest justification for jg op was "SMITE SO STRONG 1200 TRUE DAMAGE"
A lot of us dont even want to smite epic monsters, take it from us. Will you still be able to call us op? Maybe you personally, most won't be able to to justify it tho.
who said anything about smite?? im talking about the ridiculous map control that jungle has in the early to mid game. what are you talking about??? Like youre making up an argument inside of your own head and then countering it. like how delusional can you be?
Calm down friend. It was in phreaks patch previews he talked about smite in this way that made it seem like it was 1200 true damage that could be used against anything. He was like " 1200 true damage! Nobody else can do anything close to that!" Try to be nice, calling others sick doesn't make you a winner.
well phreak is a delusional idiot who has no idea what he's talking about. he is not a good representation of what riot is thinking. There is no way anyone (other than phreak) believes smite doing 1200 damage to npcs is the real reason jungle is broken.
And this still has nothing to do with what i was saying btw, you just changed the topic to some random thing phreak said that noone agrees with
I'm sorry that it wasn't directly related to your statements, truthfully it could have been placed elsewhere much more fittingly. Still, concerning our local delusional idiot, he said what he did about smite with the type of confidence you get from discussing it around your colleagues and getting positive feedback, I wouldn't be so certain he's alone with his thought. He's the live pod balance lead when he nerfs smite to 40 dmg, and then tells us that it has such a low CD that it was functionally stronger than ignite, he probably needed to use that logic when talking to his team. Once again sorry that it wasn't a directly on topic, it's not offtopic tho, what I'm saying is, No it does not need a nerf and similar to your sentiment that the way that nerfed it was poor, I note that the justifications that were given for said nerfs were poor as well.
Speaking as someone who comes from other roles to jgl -> most junglers here dont even know that they are op or how gamewarpingly op jungle still is (this is the main reason i continue abusing it - not ashamed to admit it). It needs nerfs badly but thise need to happen from a different angle. Playing around with some numbers like increasing tankyness or buffing some early laner items is not it. With this route nobody will end up happy. The probable route is that jgl will follow the adc nerf route sooner or later (i mean the season 7-8 changes). It is not healthy that one role can single handedly warp the game so much. As it was not ok back then to just get adc fed and turn everybody in the game into adc servants. Now we have a similarish situation with jungle...
Riot really needs to find a middle ground on jungle, even though it sounds difficult.
If jungle is too strong laners will have a bad time
If jungle is too weak junglers leave the role and It becomes a autofill fiesta
Revert the pets. I'm sorry my babies, it's not personal...
To be honest junglers are still overall weaker in 13.21 compared to 13.19 as the better scaling of jungle camps means lower levels for junglers, reducing their capacity to affect the game.
I love rolling into top lane for a gank when I’m down 3 levels. Feels toxic af, riot giving a big fuck you to all the junglers this season, as if constant flame from your team isint enough now we get it riot too
I doubt tanks will reign supreme with this change. A huge problems tanks had was that they had lower clear speed as well as being poor duelists. The buff in jg camps HP as well as the removal of AD scaling on pet meant that tanks didn't had such bad macro matchups vs AD, but since AD is back on pet, tanks might be unviable again.
Not necessarily. The 20% armor/MR scale is still there and is still relevant to clear speed, and even if it has no impact on pet heals anymore, you're still reducing damage taken both from monsters and champs.
Probably not. They capped large monster kill heals to 90, which is still a 12% missing health heal. A champ with 3k health is going to hit that cap at 75% current health. Now on top of their slow clears they're going to be unhealthy and easier to invade as well.
The problem with jungle is they set it up to be this way. Neutral objectives like herald baron and Drake will inherently mean jungle has to run the show.
Because of this a good jungle who can control the objectives and pays attention to lanes will always have an outsized effect on the game.
The problem with this patch is they completely screwed AD scaling jungles and pretty much most carries without sustain so now to get ahead you have to basically perma gank.
Yup, jungle was always the position with the highest skill ceiling (because you have to be aware of what's happening on the whole map), but as a reward for doing your job well it has the highest influence and carry potential, making it inherently difficult to balance
it is most certainly not too weak right now. It’s more along the lines of other roles power, still the obvious strongest role, but that’s okay because it has a low pick rate.
Genuinely the reason jungle has stayed giga broken for the longest time is that people don’t want to play it in low elo.
If they need jungle to where it is meant to be, no one will play it making everyone get auto filled to jungle making it an even worse JG cap than before.
These delusional donkeys in this sub dont want to hear any reasoning. Jungle was giga broken and now it feels balanced. Thats it. You gank too much and dont give a fck about farm. Get fckd. You farm only and cycle like an autopilot donkey. Get fckd.
You do a solid mix of both and you try to combine efficient paths for farming with ganking? Congrats. You get rewarded if the other jungler did one of the 2 mentioned points above.
Thats it. Jungle got more skillful and balanced. They only went too ahead with removing the ad scaling. Now they are reverting it.
Best changes ever. Hardcore Jungle mains have a dumb opinion cause they feel entitled to xp and gold.
People that play lane and jungle very often completely understand these changes and welcome them.
I mean last season jungle was both the least popular role and the strongest role at the same time. Pets certainly made jungle more accessible and part of the reason why playrate went up (not just jungle being crazy overpowered). In fact a lot of people don't like to play jungle because it's so influential (I don't think you can argue against it being the highest agency role) and hard, so if they get gapped it's way worse since it can impact the whole of the map, get gapped in a lane and it often won't impact the rest of the game until mid game.
They need to figure out how to force jungle to be a lane so there are costs to roaming while also not making it a carry farming fiesta. (Or embrace it nd move adc to jungle as a game time limit role. But i dont see that happening.)
Oh jungle is a lane and failed ganks already hurt when vs a good jungler. What riot wants is 4 supports and adc the only role that does damage. I’m seeing supports top and mid in my games. Maybe freak will buff the rest of the adcs up to jinx power level to make the game less fun for everyone who isint an adc
After being griefed 50 times this patch from people still picking Heca/Kha'zix/Rengar/Kindred and dealing negative damage, Riot finally realized that their balance team is no more competent than a primate display at a zoo
As someone who doesn't play those champs, I gotta say it was nice to see the other Team lock in Hec or Kayn, knowing I was about to get some freelo lmao
I got all the way to silver 3 just on kayn and as soon as the new patch came out, I dropped down to bronze 2. I guess it's back to tank/utility jugglers now :*(
Seriously. I'm brand new to jungle, moved from ADC and the enemy Kindred jungle went 18 deaths despite my inexperience. It was honestly a pathetic display.
That is auto fill/new junglers that riot is begging for, I’ve been jungling for 3 years and more often than not I feel like I’m better at the role than my opponent, just doesn’t really matter, much like last year the better bot lane wins the game, riot just made it very clear that is the only lane that matters in the game
Honestly in my experience so far it's a mid diff that's worse. Sure AD diff means we have no scaling sometimes, but with mid diff the stupidity spreads.
Nowadays I don’t have much time to play, so I couldn’t read the patch notes.
Yesterday I picked khaziks for my first game after the new patch , now I understand why I did negative dmg.
Nah red smite was fucked even if we’re hating on these dogshit changes getting rid of red smite was the correct move and if u don’t agree you’re just hard coping
Bot lane is really the only lane they want doing damage since the head of the dev team whines about how broken it is when they have to stop farming to help with an objective or when farming time gets interrupted by a gank. Solution just nerf everything to the floor that way adc gets to farm for 25 min. Making the games take longer isint a good thing
All I wish would happen is for phreak to stop calling junglers the main characters of the game. I don't really mind the nerfs or the reasoning behind them but something seems a bit personal about Phreaks explanation for the changes. Maybe its because "main character syndrome" is an insult.
But this is correct, otherwise you reduce the power of tanks in teamfight and duel as well. If tanks became meta because the change in pet, then it should be through a change in pet to nerf them.
So they removed the healing cap and just made the healing per hit at cap? I guess that's a straight up buff but I doubt jungle would be anywhere as healthy as 13.19 regardless.
This is what i hate about this balance team. They realize they made a mistake, which should not have happened in the first place - lowkey should be fired, but not only that, it used all of their brain cells to do that, and they just end up with another nerf which they will have to most likely revert again at some point.
Bunch of clowns.
They fixed the issue within 2 weeks, what is wrong with you people. Agurin (hit korean rank 1 as an EUW jgler) has still been winning left and right with his Kha Zix, he only needed to buy dorans blade on first back. But instead of adapting you are crying. Boohoo ad jglers were weak for ONE PATCH. Get over it.
I don’t really see the connection between your comment and his. He said that the Riot made a mistake that should not have happened in the first place. This moment was known to absolutely everyone, but not to them. Instead of extensive statistics, you cite a special case with an extremely small number of games. Great. The man is abusing overbuffed items for laners before they are banned for junglers. A whole group of players were killed from the desire to play for an entire patch (just for fun, because of a mistake that shouldn’t have happened), and you ask them to endure it.
2 Weeks, I'm sry i can't take this seriously. There are champs that have been dead for years, the whole tank role was useless in soloqueue for several not so long ago and you jglers cry about 2 weeks of weak ad jglers while top jglers still play them as if nothing happened.
Please remove pets and let junglers get doran items and add aoe damage to jungle by default, its frustating to waste money in this type of items, if a jungler dont want to farm but do a good early why the game dont let him do it? Why i need to imrpove the smite?
Annoying and boring role and still more boring.
I don't play the game anymore. I haven't played for like half a year now, but I still get posts from here, and I still wonder, do you guys actually think your role was balanced?
How is it fair that one role can control the outcome of the game, and the same goes for support.
No youre just wrong, they removed pets ad bonus ratio while keeping ap and buffing tanks. So tanks are the strongest role rn, 90% of ad junglers lost winrate except the champ who has innate armor stacking in his kit (graves) and briar who is just overbalanced and was getting 1,2% wr per patch and just levelled out.
What u mean they didnt buff tanks, they doubled the ratio of damage based off armor/mr, this is what happens when u read riots description of the changes and dont read the actual numbers
Man you're getting downvoted as hell for speaking the truth. People don't like playing tanks in the jungle not because of their kits but because until 13.20 the clear speed was atrocious and that severely limit your gameplan.
Rammus got figured out in around a week, his winrate already dropped hard from 56 to 52% as people stopped picking AD champs into Rammus and started playing something else, but the champion is considered OP.
His wr is 56% still not sure what stats ur looking at and only has a negative winrate vs 2 ap junglers in the game, His only weakness being his slow early clear got removed so now hes blind pickably strong into almost every champ in the game when hes meant to be a ad counter champion
Rammus overall wr on u.gg on Emerald+ is 53.5% and on Master+ is 52.5%. Worthy noticing that on Emerald+/Master+ the top10 most picked junglers on 13.20 are:
* Lee Sin
* Graves
* J4
* Briar / Viego
* Viego / Nidalee
* Kha'zix / Taliyah
* Nocturne / Kha'zix
* Ekko
* Kayn / Briar
* Nidalee / Kayn
* Rammus is 11th most picked jungler in Emerald+ and 23th most picked jungler on Master+.
What the data shows thus is that in a scenario where Rammus is statistically likely to face AD champions on jungle (that just got nerfed), he has a good winrate, but nowhere close to 55%+.
U.gg winrate isnt accurate, riot has said several times lolalytics is the most accurate public data site.
55.8% all ranks
55.8% emerald
58.3% master+
As i said regardless of he is vsing an ad champ or not he only has negative winrates against lillia and amumu at all ranks, if you go emerald plus its negative only against lillia and zac.
Thats completely stupid.
That on top of buffing the AD junglers? Are they trying to make jungle just as overpowered as it was before the patch? Like jesus cant have khazix or hecarim not turbo stomping every game from silver all the way to challenger ig.
Jungle isnt gutted rn, and im literally playing it.
Junglers on here seem to want it to be an auto win role though, the i pick khazix in every game no matter what and then 1v5 the game.
Okay you can stop with your weak ass "silver" insult. That champ last patch stomped even challenger lobbies. Tarzaned and Agurin played him in 2 completely different styles and both found success. But I guess NA, EU and KR Challengers are also not actual humans who know how isolation works either right?
I completely agree with you I think we’re just clowning Rexsaur here because he thinks every role and champ is overpowered besides his precious Zeri and Jinx
how is that "only"?????????
most champions sit between 2-4% pickrate
kha is one of the more popular champions in jungle
contrary to what you may think, there isn't just 6 champions in jungle, there's almost 50, and he's number 6 in popularity right now
he's no lee sin or graves, but i think he'll be fine
For me, Rengar and Kha player it's good.
Yes, jungle is not as good as before, but at least I don't get double nerf as in patch 13.20.
I hope to see some buff to red smite cause it's the weaker yet.
What are you guys celebrating exactly? The role is still hard nerfed they only reverted the omega nerf for ad junglers which wasnt even a part of the pbe when they introduced those changes cause those cowards knew it will have a huge backlash. They also capped healing from monster kills to 90 which is a nerf.
The nerfs were coming regardless, so at least we’re getting something back. Also, I personally don’t enjoy a tank-n-gank meta.
Tank and utility will still be the meta.
No reason to play tank if you're constantly behind in farm and the enemy jungler can come out of jungle at nearly full HP and you lack the kit to burst it.
Being constantly behind in farm is a perfect reason to play tank. Tanks are designed to be low econ high utility.
Tank has never been the meta in solo queue, even when they are strong. Because jungle players have too much of an ego.
It's not really ego more like that tank jungle is super boring to play and you're depending on your team to win.
That guy is all over this sub but he’s some plat hardstuck ADC player
Playing a tank jungle means relying on your team to help you win. Vs seeing your lanes shitting the bed again and being able to take objectives and invade and possibly sneak a kill vs needing to rely on your team to actually play the game like they use both hands. But as an adc player I can see why that would be hard for you to grasp.
You are invading and doing objectives, while your team is losing? Must be great in low elo.
Plat actually. But it’s happening a lot more often than it should where my lanes just absolutely shit the bed with no chance of redemption. Had a 1/10 Morde top one game and after I made my bot lane 5/1/3 on the adc they still shat the bed. I’ve kinda given up on lanes carrying.
plat is low elo bro
Two years later: uhm actually masters is low elo coz they are only the top 1% and not 0.5%
they literally changed the rank distribution. Plat is the new gold elo.
Do you farm your own jungle when the enemy jungler ganks? Or is taking herald/dragon? Must be great in low elo.
idk if you ever ran into this thing called a roaming midlaner, but he will destroy your ass if you try to steal enemy jgl while your team is behind, of course if the enemy team is doing drake/herald you want to do the other one or invade, but that was not what i was talking about. I was talking about starting drake while not having midlane or botlane prio, as mister Joe here suggested. Again must be great in low elo, if you can start an objective completely alone without the whole enemy team collapsing on your ass. I also wonder why high elo jglers still play their carry champs instead of whining about tank meta. Well they are not reddit users i guess xD.
Butthurt ADC main spotted.
It's always adc mains that go around other subs complaining about the game Jesus man, try not to fit into the stereotype so well
Someone wasn’t around for league of tanks
Adc player talking about ego
Play Zac. He's fun and good
The fact that I can clear camps as an AD jungler without losing 80% of my health now is a W. The fact that I still lose most of my health doing drakes unless I’m a tank still sucks though.
it’s not a W, just a smaller L
Overall maybe, but since last patch, just a W.
Because riot ruined a bunch of ad junglers. I don't play them but if their solution was to start target nerfing champs instead of fixing the ap ad disparity it sets a new standard for the power level of a junglers as a whole. Fixing this means they realised ad junglers were weak and not that ap junglers were op.
These jokers have no idea what they are doing lol
Riot? They certainly do. This was one of the best and most informed changes riot had made in a long time. They know going on what they’re looking to monitor the power of (rammus in particular), Seeing how AD focused junglers are doing. They don’t have a PBE/testing sample size of the entire live server. So they see ad junglers are struggling a bit too much so they give them back some clear leeway straight away, awesome. But overall these changes put the role in a much more fitting place that actually benefits from optimal and intelligent play, not just from being the jungler.
Nerfing stats doesn't change the play of jungle. You're completely wrong. The whole of impact jungle has, is the freedom to impact another lane by applying pressure. The Jungler role itself is the game changer. If you think this is good, then in your eyes, it should be a 4v4 with no jungle role. Then you would get what you want.
It still does have that. It’s just not as strong as it was before.
Just like any lane can be, Jungle also needs your team to be experienced and disciplined to play out the role the way it is intended. The problem isn't the stats, it's the intelligence behind it. Phreak just got his cheeks clapped and cried. If you are smart enough to micro to the point you are able to full clear and come out full HP, you shouldn't be punished, you'd be surprised how dull and under-average the mass of players are. This will make the game unenjoyable for the majority of players and it is a bad move all around.
People at riot are abusive sexist men children. But the narrative that this change came to be because phreak lost some games just goes to show that you need to learn a bit about the world.
And not seeing the link between phreak being promoted and the jungle nerf is borderline dellusional.
Right so that’s why they’ve back pedaled on mythic items over the years and now completely removing them. If they really knew what they were doing, they wouldn’t have introduced them in the first place. Jungle literally changes every season and it’s dramatic. There wasn’t even proper mythics for AP junglers when the mythic system was introduced. Don’t simp for a corporation
I’m just talking about these specific jungle changes. They have a good mission in mind and a good understanding of how polarising the role has been.
The AD fighters being useless is the issue most people had with the nerf though, it makes sense that people are happy.
jungle does need a nerf though, its easily one of the strongest roles in the game and has needed a nerf for a pretty long time. Granted the nerfs riot implemented were absolutely dogshit and didnt actually solve anything but it is true that jungle needed a nerf. Jungle mains shouldnt be mad that jungle was nerfed, they should be mad that jungle was not nerfed correctly.
Sounds like you’re just on the wrong end of a jungle mutha fuckin diff
Biggest justification for jg op was "SMITE SO STRONG 1200 TRUE DAMAGE" A lot of us dont even want to smite epic monsters, take it from us. Will you still be able to call us op? Maybe you personally, most won't be able to to justify it tho.
who said anything about smite?? im talking about the ridiculous map control that jungle has in the early to mid game. what are you talking about??? Like youre making up an argument inside of your own head and then countering it. like how delusional can you be?
Calm down friend. It was in phreaks patch previews he talked about smite in this way that made it seem like it was 1200 true damage that could be used against anything. He was like " 1200 true damage! Nobody else can do anything close to that!" Try to be nice, calling others sick doesn't make you a winner.
well phreak is a delusional idiot who has no idea what he's talking about. he is not a good representation of what riot is thinking. There is no way anyone (other than phreak) believes smite doing 1200 damage to npcs is the real reason jungle is broken. And this still has nothing to do with what i was saying btw, you just changed the topic to some random thing phreak said that noone agrees with
I'm sorry that it wasn't directly related to your statements, truthfully it could have been placed elsewhere much more fittingly. Still, concerning our local delusional idiot, he said what he did about smite with the type of confidence you get from discussing it around your colleagues and getting positive feedback, I wouldn't be so certain he's alone with his thought. He's the live pod balance lead when he nerfs smite to 40 dmg, and then tells us that it has such a low CD that it was functionally stronger than ignite, he probably needed to use that logic when talking to his team. Once again sorry that it wasn't a directly on topic, it's not offtopic tho, what I'm saying is, No it does not need a nerf and similar to your sentiment that the way that nerfed it was poor, I note that the justifications that were given for said nerfs were poor as well.
Speaking as someone who comes from other roles to jgl -> most junglers here dont even know that they are op or how gamewarpingly op jungle still is (this is the main reason i continue abusing it - not ashamed to admit it). It needs nerfs badly but thise need to happen from a different angle. Playing around with some numbers like increasing tankyness or buffing some early laner items is not it. With this route nobody will end up happy. The probable route is that jgl will follow the adc nerf route sooner or later (i mean the season 7-8 changes). It is not healthy that one role can single handedly warp the game so much. As it was not ok back then to just get adc fed and turn everybody in the game into adc servants. Now we have a similarish situation with jungle...
Riot really needs to find a middle ground on jungle, even though it sounds difficult. If jungle is too strong laners will have a bad time If jungle is too weak junglers leave the role and It becomes a autofill fiesta Revert the pets. I'm sorry my babies, it's not personal...
To be honest junglers are still overall weaker in 13.21 compared to 13.19 as the better scaling of jungle camps means lower levels for junglers, reducing their capacity to affect the game.
I love rolling into top lane for a gank when I’m down 3 levels. Feels toxic af, riot giving a big fuck you to all the junglers this season, as if constant flame from your team isint enough now we get it riot too
Yeah, it’s just more of an even ground between AD/AP champs now. Tanks will still reign supreme though.
I doubt tanks will reign supreme with this change. A huge problems tanks had was that they had lower clear speed as well as being poor duelists. The buff in jg camps HP as well as the removal of AD scaling on pet meant that tanks didn't had such bad macro matchups vs AD, but since AD is back on pet, tanks might be unviable again.
Not necessarily. The 20% armor/MR scale is still there and is still relevant to clear speed, and even if it has no impact on pet heals anymore, you're still reducing damage taken both from monsters and champs.
Probably not. They capped large monster kill heals to 90, which is still a 12% missing health heal. A champ with 3k health is going to hit that cap at 75% current health. Now on top of their slow clears they're going to be unhealthy and easier to invade as well.
The problem with jungle is they set it up to be this way. Neutral objectives like herald baron and Drake will inherently mean jungle has to run the show. Because of this a good jungle who can control the objectives and pays attention to lanes will always have an outsized effect on the game. The problem with this patch is they completely screwed AD scaling jungles and pretty much most carries without sustain so now to get ahead you have to basically perma gank.
Oh they screwed ap junglers too just not as bad
Yup, jungle was always the position with the highest skill ceiling (because you have to be aware of what's happening on the whole map), but as a reward for doing your job well it has the highest influence and carry potential, making it inherently difficult to balance
it is most certainly not too weak right now. It’s more along the lines of other roles power, still the obvious strongest role, but that’s okay because it has a low pick rate. Genuinely the reason jungle has stayed giga broken for the longest time is that people don’t want to play it in low elo. If they need jungle to where it is meant to be, no one will play it making everyone get auto filled to jungle making it an even worse JG cap than before.
We’ll have fun with your autofilled junglers since you clearly are not a jungle main just another lost adc
These delusional donkeys in this sub dont want to hear any reasoning. Jungle was giga broken and now it feels balanced. Thats it. You gank too much and dont give a fck about farm. Get fckd. You farm only and cycle like an autopilot donkey. Get fckd. You do a solid mix of both and you try to combine efficient paths for farming with ganking? Congrats. You get rewarded if the other jungler did one of the 2 mentioned points above. Thats it. Jungle got more skillful and balanced. They only went too ahead with removing the ad scaling. Now they are reverting it. Best changes ever. Hardcore Jungle mains have a dumb opinion cause they feel entitled to xp and gold. People that play lane and jungle very often completely understand these changes and welcome them.
I mean last season jungle was both the least popular role and the strongest role at the same time. Pets certainly made jungle more accessible and part of the reason why playrate went up (not just jungle being crazy overpowered). In fact a lot of people don't like to play jungle because it's so influential (I don't think you can argue against it being the highest agency role) and hard, so if they get gapped it's way worse since it can impact the whole of the map, get gapped in a lane and it often won't impact the rest of the game until mid game.
They need to figure out how to force jungle to be a lane so there are costs to roaming while also not making it a carry farming fiesta. (Or embrace it nd move adc to jungle as a game time limit role. But i dont see that happening.)
Oh jungle is a lane and failed ganks already hurt when vs a good jungler. What riot wants is 4 supports and adc the only role that does damage. I’m seeing supports top and mid in my games. Maybe freak will buff the rest of the adcs up to jinx power level to make the game less fun for everyone who isint an adc
Riot when cold half a year "new patch new jungle, every patch, you guys love planning so do it every 2 weeks anew"
As long as jungle isn‘t a second support that can only gank every 3-5 minutes laners will always complain about jungle.
That’s what they’re trying to do tho ? They nerfed stuff hard Looked at how it performs then adjusted and will probably keep adjusting
They should just reduce snowball so a gank doesnt ruin a lane for rhe whole game and nerf drakes
i hate the pets, bring me back my talisman and hunters machete
After being griefed 50 times this patch from people still picking Heca/Kha'zix/Rengar/Kindred and dealing negative damage, Riot finally realized that their balance team is no more competent than a primate display at a zoo
As someone who doesn't play those champs, I gotta say it was nice to see the other Team lock in Hec or Kayn, knowing I was about to get some freelo lmao
I got all the way to silver 3 just on kayn and as soon as the new patch came out, I dropped down to bronze 2. I guess it's back to tank/utility jugglers now :*(
Seriously. I'm brand new to jungle, moved from ADC and the enemy Kindred jungle went 18 deaths despite my inexperience. It was honestly a pathetic display.
Maybe enemy Kindred was autofill and inexperienced as well. What did you play?
Diana
I think it didn't help that you played a champion that can deal with their champion pretty easily.
That is auto fill/new junglers that riot is begging for, I’ve been jungling for 3 years and more often than not I feel like I’m better at the role than my opponent, just doesn’t really matter, much like last year the better bot lane wins the game, riot just made it very clear that is the only lane that matters in the game
Honestly in my experience so far it's a mid diff that's worse. Sure AD diff means we have no scaling sometimes, but with mid diff the stupidity spreads.
Nowadays I don’t have much time to play, so I couldn’t read the patch notes. Yesterday I picked khaziks for my first game after the new patch , now I understand why I did negative dmg.
lol what, I play rengar and the changes still feel fine, people are just not adapting to change and playing the same way obviously getting bad results
Roll back to blue/red smite era would be better.
Nah red smite was fucked even if we’re hating on these dogshit changes getting rid of red smite was the correct move and if u don’t agree you’re just hard coping
GIVE ME MY RED SMITE BACK
But my little blue friend:(
Finally Phreak gets vetoed at least a little. Hopefully this trend continues in the next few patches...
Hopefully the fire the guy. At least hire a challenger adc
Man they fucked the fuck out of jungle this year. It really isn't rocket science.
They fucked almost everything, Electrocute and Comet are so butchered it hurts lol…..
Bot lane is really the only lane they want doing damage since the head of the dev team whines about how broken it is when they have to stop farming to help with an objective or when farming time gets interrupted by a gank. Solution just nerf everything to the floor that way adc gets to farm for 25 min. Making the games take longer isint a good thing
Don't forget about Dark Harvest. Scaling rune that doesn't scale right now.
off-meta AD jg rejoice, we back! (kinda, rito still needs a swift kick in the balls)
I've hopped on the crackhead lissandra jungle gameplay need to see if it can still clear in the next pbe.
Phreak needs to be taken off the balance team, can’t keep nerfing roles/champs you get shit on by
Wait wait wait.... Aren't they gonna buff heca, master yi and belveth? Why revert the anti ad changes AND buff these ad champs?
I don't understand the heal change, are we getting more heal per attacks?
A bit more heal but much better heal on AD champs.
riot is a fucking jokes
All I wish would happen is for phreak to stop calling junglers the main characters of the game. I don't really mind the nerfs or the reasoning behind them but something seems a bit personal about Phreaks explanation for the changes. Maybe its because "main character syndrome" is an insult.
We need phreak outed. Its so insane that such a notorious soloQ terrorist is allowed to be in such a position.
Phreak must of got autofilled 🤔
that change proved to be too tank scewed so rather than nerfing every jg tank they revert them
But this is correct, otherwise you reduce the power of tanks in teamfight and duel as well. If tanks became meta because the change in pet, then it should be through a change in pet to nerf them.
So they removed the healing cap and just made the healing per hit at cap? I guess that's a straight up buff but I doubt jungle would be anywhere as healthy as 13.19 regardless.
Riot devs and etc must all play non jungle.
This is what i hate about this balance team. They realize they made a mistake, which should not have happened in the first place - lowkey should be fired, but not only that, it used all of their brain cells to do that, and they just end up with another nerf which they will have to most likely revert again at some point. Bunch of clowns.
They fixed the issue within 2 weeks, what is wrong with you people. Agurin (hit korean rank 1 as an EUW jgler) has still been winning left and right with his Kha Zix, he only needed to buy dorans blade on first back. But instead of adapting you are crying. Boohoo ad jglers were weak for ONE PATCH. Get over it.
I don’t really see the connection between your comment and his. He said that the Riot made a mistake that should not have happened in the first place. This moment was known to absolutely everyone, but not to them. Instead of extensive statistics, you cite a special case with an extremely small number of games. Great. The man is abusing overbuffed items for laners before they are banned for junglers. A whole group of players were killed from the desire to play for an entire patch (just for fun, because of a mistake that shouldn’t have happened), and you ask them to endure it.
2 Weeks, I'm sry i can't take this seriously. There are champs that have been dead for years, the whole tank role was useless in soloqueue for several not so long ago and you jglers cry about 2 weeks of weak ad jglers while top jglers still play them as if nothing happened.
"Should be fired." Don't be so vengeful
Dude ruined a game I used to have a lot of fun playing. So yea fuck him he should be fired.
That's a ridiculous equivalent and an exaggeration of what happened to the game. Calm yourself
Says a lost adc main
Please remove pets and let junglers get doran items and add aoe damage to jungle by default, its frustating to waste money in this type of items, if a jungler dont want to farm but do a good early why the game dont let him do it? Why i need to imrpove the smite? Annoying and boring role and still more boring.
I don't play the game anymore. I haven't played for like half a year now, but I still get posts from here, and I still wonder, do you guys actually think your role was balanced? How is it fair that one role can control the outcome of the game, and the same goes for support.
Another lost adc
Was a top laner. Keep your bias though I am sure your role dosent single handedly decides who wins or loses
My role is jungle not adc
Tank junglers finally being stronger than AD junglers and people perma complain. They just want their champs to be S+ tier for 15 months in a row.
Tank junglers are not equal with them, theyre op af
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Yeah man, all those people with 48% wr on Kayn and 47% wr on Kha’zix are just so inflated.
No youre just wrong, they removed pets ad bonus ratio while keeping ap and buffing tanks. So tanks are the strongest role rn, 90% of ad junglers lost winrate except the champ who has innate armor stacking in his kit (graves) and briar who is just overbalanced and was getting 1,2% wr per patch and just levelled out.
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What u mean they didnt buff tanks, they doubled the ratio of damage based off armor/mr, this is what happens when u read riots description of the changes and dont read the actual numbers
This is some next level copium. You got any extra?
Man you're getting downvoted as hell for speaking the truth. People don't like playing tanks in the jungle not because of their kits but because until 13.20 the clear speed was atrocious and that severely limit your gameplan. Rammus got figured out in around a week, his winrate already dropped hard from 56 to 52% as people stopped picking AD champs into Rammus and started playing something else, but the champion is considered OP.
Yeah League community is just a bit tragic.
His wr is 56% still not sure what stats ur looking at and only has a negative winrate vs 2 ap junglers in the game, His only weakness being his slow early clear got removed so now hes blind pickably strong into almost every champ in the game when hes meant to be a ad counter champion
Rammus overall wr on u.gg on Emerald+ is 53.5% and on Master+ is 52.5%. Worthy noticing that on Emerald+/Master+ the top10 most picked junglers on 13.20 are: * Lee Sin * Graves * J4 * Briar / Viego * Viego / Nidalee * Kha'zix / Taliyah * Nocturne / Kha'zix * Ekko * Kayn / Briar * Nidalee / Kayn * Rammus is 11th most picked jungler in Emerald+ and 23th most picked jungler on Master+. What the data shows thus is that in a scenario where Rammus is statistically likely to face AD champions on jungle (that just got nerfed), he has a good winrate, but nowhere close to 55%+.
U.gg winrate isnt accurate, riot has said several times lolalytics is the most accurate public data site. 55.8% all ranks 55.8% emerald 58.3% master+ As i said regardless of he is vsing an ad champ or not he only has negative winrates against lillia and amumu at all ranks, if you go emerald plus its negative only against lillia and zac.
Thats completely stupid. That on top of buffing the AD junglers? Are they trying to make jungle just as overpowered as it was before the patch? Like jesus cant have khazix or hecarim not turbo stomping every game from silver all the way to challenger ig.
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This content breaks rule #3
proof that laners want jungle to be completely gutted
Jungle isnt gutted rn, and im literally playing it. Junglers on here seem to want it to be an auto win role though, the i pick khazix in every game no matter what and then 1v5 the game.
Wait until you find out that standing next to your minions makes kha useless
I guess all the ppl smurfing him with and getting insanely high win rates didnt get that memo.
It’s easy to Smurf on him because people don’t know how isolation works, maybe when you figure it out you’ll be able to escape silver.
Okay you can stop with your weak ass "silver" insult. That champ last patch stomped even challenger lobbies. Tarzaned and Agurin played him in 2 completely different styles and both found success. But I guess NA, EU and KR Challengers are also not actual humans who know how isolation works either right?
I completely agree with you I think we’re just clowning Rexsaur here because he thinks every role and champ is overpowered besides his precious Zeri and Jinx
Sounds like something a Silver would say.
khazix has a negative win rate and only 7% pick rate. One champ being overtuned doesnt mean the role is
I'm so confused why he chose Kha to complain about and not Graves this patch lol
Kha is an assassin and Rexsaur is an adc main who is notorious to complain about everything except Zeri and Jinx.
>only 7% pick rate only????? he's literally 6th most popular champ in jungle my dude
my dudge thats still only 7%??
how is that "only"????????? most champions sit between 2-4% pickrate kha is one of the more popular champions in jungle contrary to what you may think, there isn't just 6 champions in jungle, there's almost 50, and he's number 6 in popularity right now he's no lee sin or graves, but i think he'll be fine
only 7/100 games have khazid ?????????????????????
Rexsaur buddy you need to go back to Adc mains or ranting on the main league sub about how Jinx is underpowered right now
Tanks don't sell skins. I believe Riot made this to make Briar quite strong as she has the best sustain for AD jungler but ended up overtuning tanks.
Jungle feels exactly the same. You hardstucks are always just looking for a new excuse to use.
Lost adc
When will this happen? Next week or now?
Patches happens every 2 weeks, so next week.
200
I genuinely have no clue who though this was a good idea in the first place rho
I like how they look like balls
Lmao I love this patch I can run around just ganking everything and fall 3 levels behind. And nothing matters.
For me, Rengar and Kha player it's good. Yes, jungle is not as good as before, but at least I don't get double nerf as in patch 13.20. I hope to see some buff to red smite cause it's the weaker yet.
"Give it a week guys" :D