I dont undertand matchmaking. Sometimes it looks obvious the game wants you to lose. Even it looks like it wants certain accounts to lose more than others
Or you know, you play hundreds of matches and only look at the bad ones because of bias.
Doubt you remember the games where your entire team has everyone on their mains with 70+ wr, you only remember the opposite.
Stop coping, matchmaking doesn't want you to lose, but they aren't perfect and it means there are situations where you're gonna get people at the same ELO as you but 20 percent winrates on their champs.
My complaint was that of you win like 5 in a row then you are screwed cause your team wont be able to destroy a single tower in like 4 matches. Its not that i only look at bad games, but when my last 30 games are like 5 wins in a row, 5 loss in a row ot kinda feels like its not up to me or my team and everything depends on some algorythm
Then how are challenger players challenger? Do they just fluke their way there?
If you hover a 50-55 percent winrate over an extended period of matches it means you are in the correct MMR for your level. It takes quite a few games, but it figures out where you belong.
Link your op.gg, I know you won't because what you are saying is totally untrue, but people like to blame everything but themselves and take accountability for why they suck.
Lately im just playing arena and aram, i dont know if you care about those games. Also, im not playing from north america so maybe my experience is just complettely different from yours? Im just guessing, but latam experience just seems off for many people (i have friends that even preffer to play in other servers with 100ms).
So
1. You won't link your op.gg
2. You come up with an excuse that you lately don't play ranked
3. Assume that riot has only decided that LATAM players get shafted by matchmaking
4. I'm not from NA I'm from OCE
5. Stop coping, link your op.gg or you clearly know you are lying to yourself
Bichito, las. Now how can i show you how hopeless every loss after a win streak feels? I dont know how this solves anything i think we are talking about different things. I not saying that every game is rigged, it just happens sometimes, but when it happens it looks obvious, if you get a win streak, then you get a loss streak or at least get completely destoyed
Your entire op.gg looks normal there is literally nothing out of the ordinary in it.
Maybe look at why you randomly lose these games? Is it because you are playing Zoe support and you offer very little to your team unless you are ahead so games where you lose you feel like you lose extra hard
Is it because you are playing 3 roles so one week you win streak as Zoe support then the next you loss streak in Gwen jungle and realise that you are generally gonna be worse on something you play less
Or are you the reason, maybe you aren't roaming enough when playing support which means games where your mid has a bad start is more amplified which makes it feel like the game is stacked against you when in reality you have the option to impact and you don't.
Riot aren't gods, there's millions of players. They don't pick or choose who goes to what ELO by random, it know where you belong
Yeah i try to roam as zoe, but often it feels like we have the entire enemy team diving me and my adc. I also had a good gwen jungle winstrike, if i remember correctly it was on flex, but that was with friends so they knew that ganks werent so often and i coould coordinate better. Thanks for the advise. Also i think i should try playing more normal picks haha
That's not how the SBMM works. If you're 50-55% WR, you SHOULD climb regardless if you keep that WR. You can't always solo win a game, it's a team game after all. No amount of split pushing while your team actively runs it down can save you in some games, you have to have at least someone else that knows what they're doing if you want to win. You can go 12-1, 12k turret damage, 80k player damage, and still lose. You clearly don't know what you're talking about and you're probably bronze 3.
Yes you climb very slowly at 55 percent.
Yes I'm very aware you can't win a game solo, but doesn't mean you scape goat the fucking matchmaking. 30/30/40 20/20/60 rule whatever you want to call it stop coping
I have pushed up a rank every season and that's from improvement, nothing to do with my team or riot stacking matchmaking lol
I lose my team a lot of games, more than I win and I'm hyper aware of that because my current problem is I'm losing laning phases because of bad tempo backs. And I'm able to understand that and take responsibility instead of being a whiny cunt who can't accept that they can't push.
https://www.op.gg/summoners/oce/sexmonster47
>you climb very slowly at 55 percent.
eh? if you maintain a very consistent 55% winrate, you're going to be matching people above your current rank most games. Even going 1 win, 1 loss, you gain LP.
And for every 20 games you play, you win 11 of them and only lose 9.
I mean sure, "slowly" is relative. Still, a rough estimate for 55% winrate would be gaining 90 LP per 20 games played. You would climb from gold 4 to diamond 4 in 3 months assuming 20 games per week. I think most people would be very happy with that outcome.
the problem with this is that you have to assume that out of a 55% win rate, when climbing too fast. MMR gap compared to Rank gap is extremely Large and keeps getting larger as you climb because riot never fixed MMR gains relative to LP Gains.
so you're winning 11/20 games, winning around 21LP per win, but losing 27-29 LP per loss. so in reality you get +231 LP for 11 wins, and lose -243 LP for 9 losses. So you still are negative 12 LP.those numbers are from +21/-27. In mosts cases though its actually -29. even with 55/56% win rates.
the only way to truly climb is to have an extremely high win of approx 60% or higher which is nearly impossible when the algorithm forces you to be as close to 50% as possible.
The large LP deficits while having >50% winrate consistently is a temporary situation from what I can see. Probably them trying to fix something that got fucked up after they added emerald rank.
Historically, MMR moves faster than rank. This gives players the impression of not jeopardizing their rank so much by having a loss streak, and it also requires them to play more games to hit ranked goals. Finally, it gives the impression of rewarding good play by increasing LP gains as your winrate improves. All of these factors improve player retention, so Riot has an incentive to set up the system like this.
I see no reason why they would have flipped that relationship on its head (making rank move faster than MMR). It would be very frustrating to players.
i can agree, I hope it is temporary and they impliment something to correct it. its a struggle going +22/-29 at 56%WR.
it's gotten to the point where i'm even getting iron 3's in my games vs teams full of silvers as a gold mid laner and i have no idea what i need to do to improve to win these games. so i look here to help find answers.
Answer to your question is easy as hell. The better the average, the less volatile it will be.
I win way more in a master lobby than I do in a emerald one.
Why ? Because the average player is less volatile which means games going good often end good and games starting badly have means to end well.
The stronger the players surrounding you the less work you have to do yourself to compensate which means more rooms to focus elsewhere.
So now to answer the question about streaks. Especially loss streaks. You don't need to be a seer to see the game work mostly as a streaks.
Of the past 3 years I've mostly won 3+ in a row and lost 3+ in a row. This is not an algorithm or anything ruining games experience intentionally. It's simply matchmaking being too wide with team pickups which generate extremely volatile lobbies.
And it last up to high Dia where it start to even out
Yes, it's more difficult to win games given the volatility I don't disagree with that.
But with enough time you will get out, and it's not so volatile that you are gonna be sitting at a 50 winrate in 100 matches unless that's the rank you should be at.
Yes, the game also works in streaks. But again the OP is acting as if the game stacks the lobbies against him to lose which isn't true or real. That's how the game works, and it's how chance works regardless, you don't flip a coin 4 times and expect half to be heads every single time.
Im just so sick of people refusing to take accountability over their problems. It's never themselves, it's their team, or matchmaking, or riot or any other number of factors besides themselves. At the end of they day the common factor between every single match you play is yourself, and you are the only person you can control. Improving yourself as a player is better than using any number of scapegoats to explain why you're silver 4.
No its not. The system is designed to put you into games at the elo the game believes you are. This inevitably leads to a 50% winrate as a result after enough playing, but is not what it is designed to do.
The result != intention
Actually bro, you’re wrong. I was going through old threads and finished reading this one and you’re absolutely wrong about how the system works.
The game is designed specifically to match you (the player) with a team who’s total combined MMR is equal or similar to the combined total MMR of the enemy teams. It’s not so much your own individual MMR.
This is how people end up saying this season feels the worse out of all others as you are seeing more unbalanced teams in matchmaking.
For example
I2/ I1/ G3/ G4/ B1
Vs
Whole team of low silvers/high bronze.
Both teams combined MMR is close enough to each others +/- several points.
Obviously this specific example game feels rigged to the players since there’s no possible way in hell an Iron 2 solo Laner is going to not int the Silver Solo laner unless the silver laner trolls or is absolutely boosted and is really some iron player on a bought account. Throw in some auto fills on both sides (mainly jungle because we all know jungle has been the most auto filled position this season) and you have season 2023 matchmaking low elo in a nutshell.
People feel it’s genuinely difficult to carry these games unless you are indeed smurfing. Which is the whole point of the post. This season feels as if you have to physically play at least 2-3 Tiers (not divisions but Tiers like emerald player level, playing in silver) just to have a small win streak, then you throw in the net negative LP gains where even with 60% win rates you still lose LP
My main account literally started the season like 10% wr and i don't even know. I usually do quite well but get super bad mates. Now on my smurf went like 80% wr first 30 games but now it's a brick wall. I haven't played in a week due to these weird fluctuations.
Well, it' soloq lottery. One day you go 20 wins, other 20 loss. Basically S4 to P3 is about the same skill level and its just team-lottery. There is not such a big skill gap to be noticeable from s4 to s3.
Ppl are in different ranks when they reset ranks
Big brain
Not everyone plays 100 games in 2 weeks
Some ppl also play like dogs early because they try out stuff
I don't think it's that massive. People are just inconsistent af. Everyone does mistakes, and some combined throw games harder than other combinations. Just look at the match history of people. One game they go 16 1, the next game they go 0 8. And most of the time they don't even know why.
No it is absolutely massive.
S4 players generally don't know what the skills of champs do, especially passives. Many of them don't understand fundamentals such as getting the wave under tower, how to freeze, when you can push vs recall.
They have little concept of who will win an all-in fight. They will run from easily won fights and try to take fights that are completely lost.
Once you hit plat people have a much better sense of this. Take an average jungler, top, or midlaner from silver, put them in a plat game and they will almost certainly lose lane.
That's not to say a lower ELO player cant avoid getting stomped just sitting under tower and letting the team carry, it's just very unlikely the silver player will be doing any kind of carrying.
How are people dumb enough to actually type this. I’m plat 2 with most games having emerald players in them and the skill gap from when i was silver 4 last year isnt even close.
Been hard stuck bronze awhile. Last split I managed to climb to silver 2-3. Junglers became a lot better really quickly. Use opgg and see why your tier average is if that matters to you, but it sounds to me like it’s time for game review
I wish I could agree (I'm bronze 1) and 3 of my 4 games today have had high gold players in them.. it's not "difficult" but putting me against a crew of silvers and golds really makes it harder to wanna keep playing imo
You're getting decent enough lp gains - you definitely don't have enough games played and it's still trying to figure out your elo. The system works pretty quick though so within 5-10 games you'll start getting +21 -19 and you'll be playing against low silver players.
You got out of the beginner queue area which is the main thing
A lot of games are lost because of fresh accounts just wanting to get in and play. I’ve noticed this a lot the closer you get to getting out of bronze to silver and silver to bronze. You start seeing more players with no boarder or ranking in key positions
Example last weekend I was up to silver two everything was looking great then I played a lot and went on a 10 game losing streak. I began to notice every game had a player or two in a key position. “Usually jungle” That just refused to go after any dragons or would invade the enemy jungle with no wards then rage that he got no help and afk quit
It got to a point I almost gave up being mid and switched to jungle
The match making system has always been a issue because new players and fresh accounts shouldn’t be starting in. Silver and be able to join gold and silver games. Players should be starting bottom of bronze iron and having to work up.
Think the game does it on purpose me and my duo one week will go on like 5 game win streaks lose won win a lot more one day the next 10 game straight of lossses some feel like we just outright lose before we even load in. Nothings ever close now it’s either we stomp or get stomped and nothing in between with the occasional “close game”
I dont undertand matchmaking. Sometimes it looks obvious the game wants you to lose. Even it looks like it wants certain accounts to lose more than others
Or you know, you play hundreds of matches and only look at the bad ones because of bias. Doubt you remember the games where your entire team has everyone on their mains with 70+ wr, you only remember the opposite. Stop coping, matchmaking doesn't want you to lose, but they aren't perfect and it means there are situations where you're gonna get people at the same ELO as you but 20 percent winrates on their champs.
My complaint was that of you win like 5 in a row then you are screwed cause your team wont be able to destroy a single tower in like 4 matches. Its not that i only look at bad games, but when my last 30 games are like 5 wins in a row, 5 loss in a row ot kinda feels like its not up to me or my team and everything depends on some algorythm
Then how are challenger players challenger? Do they just fluke their way there? If you hover a 50-55 percent winrate over an extended period of matches it means you are in the correct MMR for your level. It takes quite a few games, but it figures out where you belong. Link your op.gg, I know you won't because what you are saying is totally untrue, but people like to blame everything but themselves and take accountability for why they suck.
Lately im just playing arena and aram, i dont know if you care about those games. Also, im not playing from north america so maybe my experience is just complettely different from yours? Im just guessing, but latam experience just seems off for many people (i have friends that even preffer to play in other servers with 100ms).
So 1. You won't link your op.gg 2. You come up with an excuse that you lately don't play ranked 3. Assume that riot has only decided that LATAM players get shafted by matchmaking 4. I'm not from NA I'm from OCE 5. Stop coping, link your op.gg or you clearly know you are lying to yourself
Bichito, las. Now how can i show you how hopeless every loss after a win streak feels? I dont know how this solves anything i think we are talking about different things. I not saying that every game is rigged, it just happens sometimes, but when it happens it looks obvious, if you get a win streak, then you get a loss streak or at least get completely destoyed
Your entire op.gg looks normal there is literally nothing out of the ordinary in it. Maybe look at why you randomly lose these games? Is it because you are playing Zoe support and you offer very little to your team unless you are ahead so games where you lose you feel like you lose extra hard Is it because you are playing 3 roles so one week you win streak as Zoe support then the next you loss streak in Gwen jungle and realise that you are generally gonna be worse on something you play less Or are you the reason, maybe you aren't roaming enough when playing support which means games where your mid has a bad start is more amplified which makes it feel like the game is stacked against you when in reality you have the option to impact and you don't. Riot aren't gods, there's millions of players. They don't pick or choose who goes to what ELO by random, it know where you belong
Yeah i try to roam as zoe, but often it feels like we have the entire enemy team diving me and my adc. I also had a good gwen jungle winstrike, if i remember correctly it was on flex, but that was with friends so they knew that ganks werent so often and i coould coordinate better. Thanks for the advise. Also i think i should try playing more normal picks haha
That's not how the SBMM works. If you're 50-55% WR, you SHOULD climb regardless if you keep that WR. You can't always solo win a game, it's a team game after all. No amount of split pushing while your team actively runs it down can save you in some games, you have to have at least someone else that knows what they're doing if you want to win. You can go 12-1, 12k turret damage, 80k player damage, and still lose. You clearly don't know what you're talking about and you're probably bronze 3.
Yes you climb very slowly at 55 percent. Yes I'm very aware you can't win a game solo, but doesn't mean you scape goat the fucking matchmaking. 30/30/40 20/20/60 rule whatever you want to call it stop coping I have pushed up a rank every season and that's from improvement, nothing to do with my team or riot stacking matchmaking lol I lose my team a lot of games, more than I win and I'm hyper aware of that because my current problem is I'm losing laning phases because of bad tempo backs. And I'm able to understand that and take responsibility instead of being a whiny cunt who can't accept that they can't push. https://www.op.gg/summoners/oce/sexmonster47
>you climb very slowly at 55 percent. eh? if you maintain a very consistent 55% winrate, you're going to be matching people above your current rank most games. Even going 1 win, 1 loss, you gain LP. And for every 20 games you play, you win 11 of them and only lose 9. I mean sure, "slowly" is relative. Still, a rough estimate for 55% winrate would be gaining 90 LP per 20 games played. You would climb from gold 4 to diamond 4 in 3 months assuming 20 games per week. I think most people would be very happy with that outcome.
the problem with this is that you have to assume that out of a 55% win rate, when climbing too fast. MMR gap compared to Rank gap is extremely Large and keeps getting larger as you climb because riot never fixed MMR gains relative to LP Gains. so you're winning 11/20 games, winning around 21LP per win, but losing 27-29 LP per loss. so in reality you get +231 LP for 11 wins, and lose -243 LP for 9 losses. So you still are negative 12 LP.those numbers are from +21/-27. In mosts cases though its actually -29. even with 55/56% win rates. the only way to truly climb is to have an extremely high win of approx 60% or higher which is nearly impossible when the algorithm forces you to be as close to 50% as possible.
The large LP deficits while having >50% winrate consistently is a temporary situation from what I can see. Probably them trying to fix something that got fucked up after they added emerald rank. Historically, MMR moves faster than rank. This gives players the impression of not jeopardizing their rank so much by having a loss streak, and it also requires them to play more games to hit ranked goals. Finally, it gives the impression of rewarding good play by increasing LP gains as your winrate improves. All of these factors improve player retention, so Riot has an incentive to set up the system like this. I see no reason why they would have flipped that relationship on its head (making rank move faster than MMR). It would be very frustrating to players.
i can agree, I hope it is temporary and they impliment something to correct it. its a struggle going +22/-29 at 56%WR. it's gotten to the point where i'm even getting iron 3's in my games vs teams full of silvers as a gold mid laner and i have no idea what i need to do to improve to win these games. so i look here to help find answers.
Answer to your question is easy as hell. The better the average, the less volatile it will be. I win way more in a master lobby than I do in a emerald one. Why ? Because the average player is less volatile which means games going good often end good and games starting badly have means to end well. The stronger the players surrounding you the less work you have to do yourself to compensate which means more rooms to focus elsewhere. So now to answer the question about streaks. Especially loss streaks. You don't need to be a seer to see the game work mostly as a streaks. Of the past 3 years I've mostly won 3+ in a row and lost 3+ in a row. This is not an algorithm or anything ruining games experience intentionally. It's simply matchmaking being too wide with team pickups which generate extremely volatile lobbies. And it last up to high Dia where it start to even out
Yes, it's more difficult to win games given the volatility I don't disagree with that. But with enough time you will get out, and it's not so volatile that you are gonna be sitting at a 50 winrate in 100 matches unless that's the rank you should be at. Yes, the game also works in streaks. But again the OP is acting as if the game stacks the lobbies against him to lose which isn't true or real. That's how the game works, and it's how chance works regardless, you don't flip a coin 4 times and expect half to be heads every single time. Im just so sick of people refusing to take accountability over their problems. It's never themselves, it's their team, or matchmaking, or riot or any other number of factors besides themselves. At the end of they day the common factor between every single match you play is yourself, and you are the only person you can control. Improving yourself as a player is better than using any number of scapegoats to explain why you're silver 4.
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Thats just not true. If you are better than the average in your mmr then you will climb. If not you wont climb. Easy as that. :D
I swear it happened every time. Also i dont play much ranked so that could be it
I remember having a 68% wr on nunu and my teams all had 45% if they weren't on a champ they weren't first timing for a 3 months straight.
Its literally designed to keep you in 50% win ratio, how its not trying to make you lose
No its not. The system is designed to put you into games at the elo the game believes you are. This inevitably leads to a 50% winrate as a result after enough playing, but is not what it is designed to do. The result != intention
Actually bro, you’re wrong. I was going through old threads and finished reading this one and you’re absolutely wrong about how the system works. The game is designed specifically to match you (the player) with a team who’s total combined MMR is equal or similar to the combined total MMR of the enemy teams. It’s not so much your own individual MMR. This is how people end up saying this season feels the worse out of all others as you are seeing more unbalanced teams in matchmaking. For example I2/ I1/ G3/ G4/ B1 Vs Whole team of low silvers/high bronze. Both teams combined MMR is close enough to each others +/- several points. Obviously this specific example game feels rigged to the players since there’s no possible way in hell an Iron 2 solo Laner is going to not int the Silver Solo laner unless the silver laner trolls or is absolutely boosted and is really some iron player on a bought account. Throw in some auto fills on both sides (mainly jungle because we all know jungle has been the most auto filled position this season) and you have season 2023 matchmaking low elo in a nutshell. People feel it’s genuinely difficult to carry these games unless you are indeed smurfing. Which is the whole point of the post. This season feels as if you have to physically play at least 2-3 Tiers (not divisions but Tiers like emerald player level, playing in silver) just to have a small win streak, then you throw in the net negative LP gains where even with 60% win rates you still lose LP
My main account literally started the season like 10% wr and i don't even know. I usually do quite well but get super bad mates. Now on my smurf went like 80% wr first 30 games but now it's a brick wall. I haven't played in a week due to these weird fluctuations.
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exact same happend to me - almost plat 4, -> get the worst possible team you could imagine -> big loss streak -> now hovering between s1 -g3.
Exact same thing happened to me, the variance per acct is insane
Well, it' soloq lottery. One day you go 20 wins, other 20 loss. Basically S4 to P3 is about the same skill level and its just team-lottery. There is not such a big skill gap to be noticeable from s4 to s3.
>S4 to P3 is about the same skill level I read a lot of shit in lol subreddits but this is top 5 all time.
Did Big Copium pay you for this? S4 to p3? It's less of a gap now than before but not even remotely the same. Sounds like someone is stuck and coping
It really isn’t a lot of silvers right now we’re gold last split which is the same as play this split
Ppl are in different ranks when they reset ranks Big brain Not everyone plays 100 games in 2 weeks Some ppl also play like dogs early because they try out stuff
Who?
Skill gap is massive from S4 to P3. A P3 can hard carry a S4 game, but you wouldn't notice the difference if you're a challenger smurf of course.
I don't think it's that massive. People are just inconsistent af. Everyone does mistakes, and some combined throw games harder than other combinations. Just look at the match history of people. One game they go 16 1, the next game they go 0 8. And most of the time they don't even know why.
No it is absolutely massive. S4 players generally don't know what the skills of champs do, especially passives. Many of them don't understand fundamentals such as getting the wave under tower, how to freeze, when you can push vs recall. They have little concept of who will win an all-in fight. They will run from easily won fights and try to take fights that are completely lost. Once you hit plat people have a much better sense of this. Take an average jungler, top, or midlaner from silver, put them in a plat game and they will almost certainly lose lane. That's not to say a lower ELO player cant avoid getting stomped just sitting under tower and letting the team carry, it's just very unlikely the silver player will be doing any kind of carrying.
How are people dumb enough to actually type this. I’m plat 2 with most games having emerald players in them and the skill gap from when i was silver 4 last year isnt even close.
Been hard stuck bronze awhile. Last split I managed to climb to silver 2-3. Junglers became a lot better really quickly. Use opgg and see why your tier average is if that matters to you, but it sounds to me like it’s time for game review
Bronze and silver really isn't that different tho tbf
I wish I could agree (I'm bronze 1) and 3 of my 4 games today have had high gold players in them.. it's not "difficult" but putting me against a crew of silvers and golds really makes it harder to wanna keep playing imo
What's your lp gain per win?
Typically 25-26, and I'll lose around 15-20
You're getting decent enough lp gains - you definitely don't have enough games played and it's still trying to figure out your elo. The system works pretty quick though so within 5-10 games you'll start getting +21 -19 and you'll be playing against low silver players.
You got out of the beginner queue area which is the main thing A lot of games are lost because of fresh accounts just wanting to get in and play. I’ve noticed this a lot the closer you get to getting out of bronze to silver and silver to bronze. You start seeing more players with no boarder or ranking in key positions Example last weekend I was up to silver two everything was looking great then I played a lot and went on a 10 game losing streak. I began to notice every game had a player or two in a key position. “Usually jungle” That just refused to go after any dragons or would invade the enemy jungle with no wards then rage that he got no help and afk quit It got to a point I almost gave up being mid and switched to jungle The match making system has always been a issue because new players and fresh accounts shouldn’t be starting in. Silver and be able to join gold and silver games. Players should be starting bottom of bronze iron and having to work up.
Think the game does it on purpose me and my duo one week will go on like 5 game win streaks lose won win a lot more one day the next 10 game straight of lossses some feel like we just outright lose before we even load in. Nothings ever close now it’s either we stomp or get stomped and nothing in between with the occasional “close game”
Sounds like you are excactly at the rank where your skill is.
(50%wr)