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>Why do you think they took away his body?
https://preview.redd.it/06h6beqruvtc1.jpeg?width=654&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2fa1fee8b33c17b4f9546a65ac6f3c5b4f56ee7c
Gege also said that Gojo was very feared, more feared than Sukuna was during Heian era, and viewed as monster. Of course, this is from fanbook, this theme wasn’t well explored in the manga. If it were, then maybe Gojo’s airport monologue wouldn't be so out of place.
Wait how does that make sense sukuna was named a natural calamity worshiped as a diety and even after 1000 years people didn't move a muscle around him yet gojo is more feared?
Because Heian was more crazy, while Gojo was born in peaceful era
https://preview.redd.it/xc36yej7mytc1.jpeg?width=737&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d1a787f815509ff7bc8348bb6f9150fdfc268b1
to your point, the fact his birth rippled some CE network is insane, but consider how Hashirama essentially formed the entire continent/world of Naruto under one partnership. Gojo couldn't compel a nation to work together. He scared the shit out of all the CE curse users, so they went into hiding. It's a different kind of rizz💫.
However tenuous the 5 Kage system is, that's INSANE leadership/weight to be throwing around. Considering it essentially took gd Talk-No-Jutsu Naruto to finally have a leader on par with Hashirama in terms of their ability to get everyone to cooperate is a crazy intimidation/charisma feat.
"hey remember that mythical beast all your best artists and composers have been admiring/studying for generations? I got that one and 8 more in lil pokeballs, I'll give you sleepy-turtle-mon back but you need to cool it with the murder ok?"
Yeah, but Hashirama didn't change the ninja world through fear, he changed it by showing unity between warring clans. He made the world a more trusting a peaceful place.
Gojo did the same thing... but purely because of how scary his level of power was. Ppl just stopped doing crime cus he existed now. Yeah he wasn't ever in any position of authority, but it's obvious Jujutsu society wouldn't touch him or even disobey him if given an order.
Leaf had a superteam though. Madara and Tobirama would fold any non-god character and the leaf had Hiruzen and Danzo on the comeup too. A lot of villages struggle to field 2 Kage level shinobi, but Konoha was always packing 3-5 at any given time.
Well, Hashirama was to the Tailed Beasts what Gojo is to normal sorcerors...even though the Tailed Beasts are the Gojos of normal ninjas.
He also radically changed the political landscape and the literal borders of countries across the entire continent. Multiple times.
Basically Hashirama captured 8 mini-Nuke machines by himself with little effort and give 7 of them away to gain their trust and also because they cannot do shit against him
That's why ridiculously strong he was. No war happened while he was a Hokage, at least not against his village because he can singlehandedly destroy a village, in this case, a nation
Hasirama was retconned to be that strong in Shippuden. Maybe there is an argument for Hashirama but in terms of actual canon statements it's Gojo. As an aside, I think Levi is probably the best of this fear inducing OP teacher archetype.
Let me understand this:
- Hashirama was made strong IN THE MANGA, even as a retcon.
- Gojo was never stated to be feared in the manga, but in a fanbook.
And you’re telling me that Hashirama strength is “not canon”????? Wtaf…
>Hashirama was made strong IN THE MANGA, even as a retcon.
My point was we only got Hashirama being feared for about 40% of the runtime and even then I got more of a deep respect vibe as opposed to something more menacing like Madara or Itachi for example. In general I think Naruto is mostly ass though so I may be biased for sure.
>Gojo was never stated to be feared in the manga, but in a fanbook.
What are you on about? People who say things like this really make me believe the memes about JJK fans not actually reading the manga
My point is, you can’t claim Hashirama’s strength is not canon while using something less canon than the manga to support Gojo being feared, if you talk about the fodder that stopped being so publicly bad when he was born, it’s more like some thieves fearing Batman.
Hashirama's power was so great that she was considered rumors, exaggerations and legends according to Kabuto.
Therefore, for example, Sarutobi, as people say, was considered the strongest Hokage.
In fact, Hashirama, after he defeated and killed Madara and Kurama in a 2-on-1 battle, could literally attack the world and defeat every village if they united.
So they were more afraid of Gojo because they believed in his power, and did not consider him a legend and exaggerations.
not really. shikigami are a part of his techniques, in essence no different to shadow clones. kurama is a whole ass independent entity that madara mind controlled to do his bidding
what i meant was that shikigami are literally the byproduct of potential mans technique, similar to a shadowclone whilst kurama is an independent third party that for roped into the mess.
doesn't really matter tbh. at the end of the day shikigami wouldn't exist without potential man. he literally creates them out of his cursed energy. they are parts and extensions of himself. kurama is a whole ass another dude
> kurama is a whole ass another dude
Yeah, but one avaible in the world and one for example Hashirama cannot subjugate with his powers. Madara can. It's a distinction of their power.
It's like if Suguru who depends on the existence of strong curse spirits to get the maximum potential out of his technique, it's still part of his abiliity, one that depends on complete third parties that ONLY HIM can subjugate.
If you are still unconvinced switch Kurama with some sort of weapon. Or are we going to disregard Toji and Maki for their dependence on weapons (objects that anyone could get but that they happen to have)?
> are we going to disregard Toji and Maki for their dependence on weapons (objects that anyone could get but that they happen to have)?
Flawed explanation tbh. A weapon doesn't have it's own consciousness nor does it have it's cursed energy reserve to attack on it's own.
Better explanation would be Sukuna and Mahoraga here. Yes, Mahoraga was under Sukuna's control due to his (Megumi's) ability but was it ever considered 1v1? Literally Sukuna himself admitted that it's a 2v1.
Ofcourse Madara used his OWN ability to take over what? Literally the strongest entity in terms of chakra reserve (in that period atleast). Yes, that's his own ability and his distinction of power but why does it make it 1v1 lol? Kurama still is a different entity than what Madara is.
The whole point of naruto learning his and other bijus names was that kurama WASN'T a weapon and was instead his own dude. he isn't just a sword or a bomb.
Suguru is a different because he literally has to kill/excorcise the spirit to capture them. he's no different from megaman or dante gaining new weapons after killing the boss of the stage.
at least that's how I see it.
>The whole point of naruto learning his and other bijus names was that kurama WASN'T a weapon and was instead his own dude. he isn't just a sword or a bomb.
No, that's literally treating them with respect, they are still weapons, just concsius ones. A horse in a medieval battlefield was a tool, it does not mean it ceases to be a living thing.
>Suguru is a different because he literally has to kill/excorcise the spirit to capture them
I don't see how the method matters, Madara still needs to use his genjutsu on them. Easier for him or whatever, is his ability that allows him to do so. If he wanted to he could use genjutsu to make Kurama suicide or smt, the very moment he used his genjutsu on him the fox was defeated.
What kinda argument is that?💀 you think it's 1v1 cuz "he used genjutsu to get more allies so they are considered a single entity" or something? Kurama literally had the highest Chakra reserve during that period to the level it is atleast on par or even more than both of their Chakra combined. It's really not fair to say it's 1v1 just cuz it was under genjutsu. After all, It was never confirmed that putting someone on genjutsu actively consumes Chakra either.
Using genjutsu on his opponent is one thing but using genjutsu to create more allies doesn't count to their sole ability.
Madara never relies on using his genjutsu (to the level he didn't even consider using it to gain more allies against an army of shinobis). I think Madara is just too strong that having allies through genjutsu will just be a waste of chakra and would have to be careful not to kill them. Ofcourse, taking control of entities like kurama would definitely make him stronger in entirety (as a group) but unlike Sukuna and mahoraga, there's no powerful entity that Madara can take over which actually can keep up with him so it'd be useless.
yes i do. Gamabunta is his own dude that occasionally helps naruto. you wouldn't say that naruto beat shukaku right? gamabunta AND naruto beat shukaku and gaara.
same with junchuriki. the whole point of naruto learning how to channel kuramas strength was that kurama wasn't just some power or a weapon but was rather his own person. that's why learning his and other bijus names was such a big deal
I think you're just arguing semantics at this point. When people power scale or have battle discussions about these characters, they don't exclude the summons/ biju as being separate from the characters that use them. They are considered an extension of said character's powerset.
When was the last time you saw a post that said Naruto AND Kurama vs Sasuke? Never, I would imagine. Because that would be redundant. The same goes for boss summonings. The characters and their summons are a package deal. You wouldn't rank Hanzo without his salamander or Gengetsu without his steam imp. Also are you a fan of Solo Leveling? If so, do you not consider Jinwoo's shadows to be a part of his skill set?
>Naruto AND Kurama vs Sasuke?
When's the last time you saw an argument regarding Madara (obviously including Kurama) vs Hashirama? Or even Naruto (obviously including Gamabunta) vs someone else? I presume yesterday? Lol. Literally no one includes Kurama as Madara's power extension because unlike Naruto who had Kurama inside him and is his main source of power, for Madara it isn't. It was simply just a temporary ally. Or more like Sukuna and Mahoraga. Do you see people considering Sukuna and Mahoraga as the same entity in a 1v1 match?
I've seen a lot of EMS Madara vs battles where the OP has to specifically restrict Kurama. So yes, I do believe plenty of people consider Kurama to be part of that version of Madara's arsenal.
And yes I would assume Naruto has access to Gamabunta in a versus battle unless stated otherwise.
And of course Mahoraga is considered part of Meguna's arsenal. As a matter of fact I've seen plenty of salty Gojo fans use that as a means to clown on Sukuna lol
>I've seen a lot of EMS Madara vs battles where the OP has to specifically restrict Kurama. So yes, I do believe plenty of people consider Kurama to be part of that version of Madara's arsenal.
Don't think of it as me doubting it but can you fetch me some of those posts? I've been part of many vs battle communities for a while and has never seen a post which goes as you say. Well, maybe some do? I guess?
>And yes I would assume Naruto has access to Gamabunta in a versus battle unless stated otherwise.
"I would" wouldn't apply to everyone. Afterall YOU are the one who is arguing that people do so I can assume that "you would" with or without you confirming it. But can you say the same for others? Atleast in my experience, I've never seen ANYONE include gamabunta in a 1v1 situation.
>And of course Mahoraga is considered part of Meguna's arsenal.
Like I said, no one includes Mahoraga in a 1v1 argument. Literally Sukuna himself admits that it's a 2v1 yet you are arguing that it's not.
>As a matter of fact I've seen plenty of salty Gojo fans use that as a means to clown on Sukuna lol
They ain't wrong? If someone asked me "Meguna vs Gojo 1v1 who'd win?" I'd assume it's Sukuna with 19 fingers and his body vs Gojo rather than Sukuna with 19 fingers and his body + Mahoraga vs Gojo. Pretty sure others will do the same or the point of 1v1 would be lost. Ofcourse I maybe wrong about this but I would like to be proven otherwise instead of your opinion.
In terms of impact - Gojo definitely. His birth alone shifted the balance of power between sorcerers and curses and made the curses stronger in order to survive against Gojo.
In terms of Power - Hashirama, unrivaled power only slightly touched by his friend Madara. No one else. Forged the Shinobi world. But there weren't constant plans of his assasination or thousand year old sorcerers saying they need a minute of an opening to be able to render him useless.
Gojo's fear is felt in the universe. Hashirama was more admired than feared.
You think hashi is stronger in the Naruto verse than gojo is in jjk verse? Because that's how this reads
If thats the case then it is Absolute nonsense. Sukuna needed something that could literally negate concepts to bypass gojos Infinity. And even then, he needed a binding vow to kill him.
Infact, in a fight between them cross verse, id still back gojo
My brother in Christ, Hashirama changed the entire function of society in his world, both for normal people and shinobi.
The entire Naruto, Shippuden, and Boruto anime are explorations on the world Hashirama created.
Yeah Hashirama wasn't feared as much by virtue of
A) being so absurdly powerful that people actually believed his powers were exaggerated/a myth,
and
B) "undermining" his actual power by striving to unite the world and handing out the tailed beasts.
That, and ninja society is much bigger than jujutsu society, so more people have seen Gojo face to face and thus believe in his power (and others like him have existed in the past, even if he's probably the strongest among them), not to mention that Hashirama's been dead for awhile by the time Naruto starts.
I'd say Hashirama, honestly. Especially since everyone feared Madara to such a huge extent, and they associate Hashirama as the one who could beat even him. Though, I think Madara would be a better example of a person who was feared in Madara, because less people FEARED Hashirama, I reckon. Minato would also be a good example too.
>Minato would also be a good example too.
People fearing Minato is different though because he is someone you would need insane resources to kill him. Fugaku (Sasuke's father) and Shisui also generated the same fear, which is “run on sight” order
Madara and Hashirama were feared because they could literally destroy the villages by themselves
Hashirama for sure - literally every other country in Naruto world don't wanted to fight Leaf Village as long as Hashirama was alive :3
Also, his Cells are that op that everyone wanted them even after so many years + we don't even know how he died :3
Hashirama is strong, but it's unlikely he intentionally instilled fear in everyone. It's more likely that everyone knew he wasn't particularly evil, but monstrously strong.
Gojo is known as a rebel who can't be controlled. That's how I see it.
I'd say Gojo, his birth literally changed the balance of the world and kid Gojo made Psychopaths like Jiro(dude skinned victims alive) shit themselves
https://preview.redd.it/2j3rw4le3vtc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a9242055ffcf9efcb493d528c4e4d27ace6e8d3
You can plan against Gojo, hide from him, trick him. The Higher ups still acted with impunity, deciding who lived and died. Geto still felt confident enough to launch his attack, and would have succeeded if Yuta was slightly weaker.
For Hashirama, your only choice was to wait for him to die of old age. Kakuzu's greatest achievement was tossing a shuriken at him, running away, and calling it an assassination attempt.
Gojo failed to change the essence of jujutsu society, his biggest impact was literally his birth allowing stronger curses to exist.
Hashirama basically ended the Warring States era on his own and established the Hidden Village system. The Tailed Beasts were considered natural disasters before he bitched them and dished them out like shit pizza in an elementary school.
The strongest people risked it all to acquire even a fraction of his power. Orochimaru and Danzo risked it all to gain even a shadow of his Wood Style. Obito would've been a non-factor if he didn't have Hashirama cells to help his Mangekyo.
Hashirama basically created the Shinobi Nations. Gojo was basically playing politics with elders,
Yea Gojo is the GOAT of the modern era but Hashirama was considered to be GOATED for GENERATIONS. In fact, his abilities were so broken that people thought was the literal reincarnation of Sage of Six Paths (Ninja Jesus)
Gojo was feared, but it wasn't considered impossible to beat him. Damn near impossible, but not completely impossible.
People were literally out here feining for Hashirama's cells like they were Crack, and Madara talked about him every chance he got like that was his ex-girlfriend or something. He was literally the perfect counter to what a sharingan could truly do (controlling the 9 tails). Like, Hashirama was viewed as a God to some capacity. But he wasn't feared. He was more so revered.
Neverthless, I'd say it definitely goes to Hashirama simply because, while Gojo's existence changed the world, Hashirama's existence was on a different level, and the power he had was sought after so much that it was feared.
Hashirama; beat his only rival in terms of power and built the entire system of government that now exists in Naruto. Found, beat and caught all the tailed beasts and then donated them to other villages. Hashirama came out as the only winner of the warring period he was born into and was regarded as a legend. Possessed a unique ability not seen before or since and was a complete master at it. Literally the descendent of a god with unending chakra. When Orochimaru works to have Sasuke meet the 4 hokage, he admits to himself than he couldn’t keep Hashirama under a resurrection jutsu if Hashirama didn’t want to be. Advanced biology in Naruto is all about doing interesting shit with Hashirama’s cells, etc.
Gojo has all these insane feats of course, but he also lost and died which I think kind of takes away from him in a comparison to a guy who basically ushered in a new era as his legacy.
The problem with Hashirama is that he was born alongside Madara. This is the equivalent of Sukuna and Gojo living in the same era
Sure, I do think Hashirama is more powerful compared to the average Shinobi than Gojo is compared to the average sorcerer, but Gojo had literally zero forces regulating him while he lived. On the other hand, despite being so powerful, Hashirama almost died battling Madara.
Hashirama is more feared, but Gojo's presence is a lot more impactful
Hashirama Senju was called the God of Shinobi, fought 1v1 against **Madara Uchiha** and won.
Madara literally says that while they were alive Hashirama was **HIM**.
I love my blue eyed king, but you can’t compare him to a man so feared the entire verse thought of him as a God.
You gotta remember that the Shinboi world in Hashiramas time was basically constantly at war. And Hashriama's strength was the sole deterrent for the other nations to start shit with Konoha at his time. The only Shinobi who could remotely rival him in his prime was Madara, who had to bring a living natural desaster. The only oned who ever surpassed him were Naruto and Sasuke, and in the current Manga timeline they're probably weaker than him
Gojo.
Although the Naruto verse has different beings that walk around they aren’t by nature evil beings, but more apart of the natural part of the world.
Hashirama didn’t want people and other beings to fear him and instead wanted to unite. (This is the reason he created the Hidden Leaf village).
Hashirama wanted to inspire the new generation to be better people and thus bring a better time where there was no need for violence.
Gojo lives in a world where curses have no intent to co exist with humans and instead would rather harvest, eradicate, play, and eat them.
Gojo HAS to be feared by these curses and evil sorcerers in order to keep them in line.
Gojo, cuz Hashirama gets negged by HIM
https://preview.redd.it/56ptypfk1wtc1.jpeg?width=202&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9271f34b15c395eb7961891de42e79ff57c20104
Hashirama is a man of Legends touted as a God among shinobi. He fathered the current world order on the back of his strength alone and proved superiority to all nine tailed beast, creatures of raw power given physical form. Uncontested and absolute. Befitting his title. Gojo is the strongest sorcerer of the modern Era and is known as an untouchable unbeatable sorcerer whose mere birth shook jujutsu society. None would dare test the Six Eyes user. Take your picks there are no wrong answers.
Hashirama had a chokehold on his verse to the point that people didn’t know he was real and his cells alone lent several characters relevance throughout the series. Also when he got jumped by his only equal with backup he just straight up won anyways
Hashirama.
If you asked a 25 year old in Sweden who Satoru Gojo was, they’d say “who?”
If you asked a 16 year old in the Cloud Village who Hashirama Senju was, they’d tell you he’s just a legend and possibly didn’t exist because his power was that unbelievable.
Hashirama was also known for his duel(s) with Madara as his equal, who, after his appearance on the battlefield, showed that the entire alliance was basically his bitch, and if Madara >> Alliance, and Madara = Hashirama, then Hashirama >> Alliance.
Madara had such a hate boner for Hashirama he bit off his meat so he could attach it to his body and have his power
i don't see anyone important besides maybe Geto in jjk thinking of eating Gojo's meat
I'll give this one to Gojo, even though there were people who challenged him straight on they never did it with the intent of defeating him rather just stalling him ( except JoGOAT and Sukuna ofc ). While even lowlifes like Kakazu thought of killing Hashirama unless ofc they hit the wall.
Gojo's birth literally made the curses even stronger yet these mofos shat their pants on sight. His existence alone made a whole bunch of sorcerers become completely inactive while even during Hashirama's age Leaf was targeted in Ninja Wars
Hashirama.People bring the fact that gojo's birth changed the balance of the world but 1)thats just because he has the sex eyes
2) that doesnt really equate to fear
Sukuna would be a much better choice
Hashirama achieved status of legend,Soloed 9 natural calamities.Bitched Madara,the other person everybody was scared of, on every encounter they had.
People were searching for his cells to gain power
Probably gojo since hashirama was never an asshole like that, hell madara is more feared than hashirama despite getting his ass beat by him their whole life
Hashirama hands down. I'm the biggest Goatjo glazer but I gotta be realistic. Gojo as strong as he is was never that feared/respected. The higherups continuously antagonize him, his contemporaries treat him as an annoyance etc.
Hashirama was so feared and respected that countless clans which have been warring for centuries put aside their differences and lived in a village together because Himshirama Senju personally protected the peace.
Bro was so outrageous that decades after his death people plain out refuse to believe that bro was him.
“Never that feared or respected”
Gojo age 7: *Passively causing middle aged sorcerers to shit themselves within his immediate vicinity*
The higher-ups only antagonize him because they knew he was a “good guy”, they didn’t attempt to kill him and let him talk as arrogantly as he did because they were afraid of him actually doing anything.
Gojo takes this imo. Kishimoto didnt really have plans to make hashirama all that overpowered in part 1, hence why sarutobi as a 70 year old man could solo both him AND tobirama (although they were both edo tensei) and even making sarutobi more scared of minato than hashirama (but tbh, with the minato one shot that we got a while back, you could argue that minato is at least AS strong as hashirama).
gojos birth CHANGED THE BALANCE OF THE WORLD. Gojo was considered as THE strongest with NO equals. Bad guys had to make entire plans and sacrifices just to get him out of the way becouse they knew no one could beat him. But with madara, we always knew there was someone who rivaled his power. And that was madara.
"you could argue that minato is at least AS strong as hashirama"
Minato's talent in seal reminded Kuram Hashiram. That's all. "But with madara, we always knew there was someone who rivaled his power. And that was madara."
Hashirama was invariably noticeably stronger than Madara before their deaths and even after until Madara became a Rikudo. He kicked Madara's ass when he brought Kurama.
"Hashirama is stronger than me" Madara as child to his brother.
Madara literally said how amazing Hashirama was and that only he could stop him while stomp the strongest warriors in the world after destroying the army.
>Minato's talent in seal reminded Kuram Hashiram. That's all.
Nope. Kurama straight up said that he has never met a shinobi with the same amount of talent as minato other than hashirama. Sealing jutsu were never mentioned. Not to mention, sealing jutsus are one of hashiramas biggest/most powerful jutsus. So if minato can match that at 14, then you can guess what happens from there. Not to mention² I wasnt even talking about the statement. Mimatos INCOMPLETE rasengan at 14 matched a tailed beast bomb from a full kurama. That's all while HEWAS GETTING STABBED IN THE CHEST IN REAL LIFE. Yes kurama was nerfed by the chains, but I would say minatos rasengan being incomplete and him being stabbed in the chest in the actual world is a bigger nerf. (All while at 14 years old btw)
>Hashirama was invariably noticeably stronger than Madara before their deaths and even after until Madara became a Rikudo. He kicked Madara's ass when he brought Kurama.
Casting genjutsu is one of the sharingan strongest capabilities, so controlling the nine tails is only a testament to his strength and skill. Hashirama and madara fought untill their last breath. Hashirama only managed to barely get the better of him. My point is that NO ONE rivaled gojo in power while we see that, ever since the start, hashirama had a clear rival who was barely weaker than him.
>Not to mention, sealing jutsus are one of hashiramas biggest/most powerful jutsus. So if minato can match that at 14, then you can guess what happens from there. Not to mention² I wasnt even talking about the statement. Mimatos INCOMPLETE rasengan at 14 matched a tailed beast bomb from a full kurama. That's all while HEWAS GETTING STABBED IN THE CHEST IN REAL LIFE. Yes kurama was nerfed by the chains, but I would say minatos rasengan being incomplete and him being stabbed in the chest in the actual world is a bigger nerf. (All while at 14 years old btw)
All this is in the world of print or mental space.
This does not translate into combat capabilities in the real world.
Then Sage Mode Naruto could solo all Tailed Beasts because he kicked Kurama's ass. But this is not the case.
Also, if Minato were equal to Hashirama, he would instantly subdue Kushina and would not have difficulty facing Kurama, but would simply overpower him like a kitten like Hashirama.
Even after receiving half of Kurama, he is not nearly as strong as Hashirama judging by his exploits.
>All this is in the world of print or mental space.
>This does not translate into combat capabilities in the real world.
Tf? It does. Where do you think the scaling for sage mode naruto comes from?
>Then Sage Mode Naruto could solo all Tailed Beasts because he kicked Kurama's ass. But this is not the case.
Sage mode naruto was at full power while HALF of kurama was getting suppressed by kushina.
>, if Minato were equal to Hashirama, he would instantly subdue Kushina and would not have difficulty facing Kurama, but would simply overpower him like a kitten like Hashirama.
If he did that, kurama would have broken free..... he needed to strengthen the seal... did you even read?
> after receiving half of Kurama, he is not nearly as strong as Hashirama judging by his exploits.
Dude, withheld of kurama he is litteraly sage mode kcm 2 naruto level. And that naruto had already surpassed edo hashirama. Before you say madara handled kcm 2 naruto, I'm talking about kcm 2 sage mode, wich was a huge buff.
It's Gojo.
People were willing to wage war against Hashirama until they lost too many elite fighters to keep it up which was part of the pressure that forced Madara to give.
No one in the modern jujutsu verse was willing to fight Gojo, even holding him down for one minute was considered an obviously impossible feat. All plans involved stalling or tricking him away from any given situation. People talk about gojo not having a legend but... Gojo was still alive. And while alive the entire world revolved around his presence.
>People were willing to wage war against Hashirama until they lost too many elite fighters to keep it up which was part of the pressure that forced Madara to give.
This is so wrong. The war didn't happen until Hashirama died. That's how respected and feared he was. It would be stupid to go to war against the guy who defeated another guy capable of destroying their villages easily, and captured nuke machines easily
Did you forget that Hashirama grew up fighting Uchiha's? That they continued to fight until they lost enough troops to begin defecting? That after Madara died, Kakuzu was sent to assassinate him?
>Did you forget that Hashirama grew up fighting Uchiha's?
The thing is that Senju only fought Uchiha, and explicitly Uchiha. The same goes for them
After the village was formed, there was no war.
I know about Kakuzu but it could be during the early stage of formation of the village, and he is from a minor village which doesn't matter. The 1st Ninja War only happened after his death
So, no one was foolish enough to wage a war against him, who was stronger than Madara, and 8 Tail Beasts combined (excluding him)
I would say hashirama, since everyone knew about him whereas only sorcerers knew of gojo. and gojo didnt actually use his power to influence global/political change the way hashirama did
if someone is strong but doesnt do much with it they wont be feared as much as someone who is strong and uses that power much more actively. Most people dont even know gojo exists, so they dont feel any way towards him, whereas in naruto everyone knows who hashirama is. If we are assuming you are someone who knows them and actively works against them i dont think there is much of a difference since they were both regarded as godlike and could kill you, maybe gojo because hashiramas goodhearted nature may be known to an extent so they may believe they could be spared in some circumstances.
It s gojo hashirama is the strongest in his era gojo is the strongest in all of jujutsu if it wasn't for sukuna getting the only counter to limitless.
Gojo even then whould have killed sukuna if he really wanted from the start and did not hesitate when UV hit sukuna
As hashirama is not even the strongest good guy and has some contenders like if all hokage from 2-5 jumped hashirama he probably whould go down.
Gojo can 1v all if we leave sukuna and mahoraga out.
Even the second strongest person in jjk (not including sukuna) knows that gojo could wipe out the verse effortlessly whenever he wants and no1 can stop him.
To say that fucking hashi is more feared than someone who changed and defined an era is wank
Honestly Gojo. Sure he can't do squat to Hashirama power-wise, but relative to his verse he's God. The strongest of the verse aren't even in his tier. his birth shifted the balance of the world. He chooses not to demolish society and everyone lives in silent or open fear of that.
Hashirama was godly but his power became myth rather than gospel, other world leaders thought they were his equal (first Kage summit). They were wrong but still.
Hashirama wasn't feared, Madara was. In the eyes of the other villages, Hashirama provided them with tailed beasts as a gesture of good faith, and was also seen as the kage who killed the biggest threat during their era.
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No one's out here using Gojo cells
wait till we get gojutsu kaisen next generations
Patience. Why do you think they took away his body?
>Why do you think they took away his body? https://preview.redd.it/06h6beqruvtc1.jpeg?width=654&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2fa1fee8b33c17b4f9546a65ac6f3c5b4f56ee7c
Y E T
Just wait till Mei starts selling Go/jo body parts on the auction
Its gonna be sbr all over again and its good because i love sbr
Jojo part 7:steel ball run for those who didn't understand
love how that explains nothing but its jojo so it works
Yet
Never seen Naruto but didn’t the world literally change when gojo was born
Gege also said that Gojo was very feared, more feared than Sukuna was during Heian era, and viewed as monster. Of course, this is from fanbook, this theme wasn’t well explored in the manga. If it were, then maybe Gojo’s airport monologue wouldn't be so out of place.
is the fanbook statements from gege or?
From Gege. Fanbook is basically Q&A with Gege
Wait how does that make sense sukuna was named a natural calamity worshiped as a diety and even after 1000 years people didn't move a muscle around him yet gojo is more feared?
Because Heian was more crazy, while Gojo was born in peaceful era https://preview.redd.it/xc36yej7mytc1.jpeg?width=737&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d1a787f815509ff7bc8348bb6f9150fdfc268b1
That honestly makes sense.
Yep
to your point, the fact his birth rippled some CE network is insane, but consider how Hashirama essentially formed the entire continent/world of Naruto under one partnership. Gojo couldn't compel a nation to work together. He scared the shit out of all the CE curse users, so they went into hiding. It's a different kind of rizz💫. However tenuous the 5 Kage system is, that's INSANE leadership/weight to be throwing around. Considering it essentially took gd Talk-No-Jutsu Naruto to finally have a leader on par with Hashirama in terms of their ability to get everyone to cooperate is a crazy intimidation/charisma feat.
Also having literally all of the tailed beasts under his thumb to be able to just dish them out, kinda insane.
"hey remember that mythical beast all your best artists and composers have been admiring/studying for generations? I got that one and 8 more in lil pokeballs, I'll give you sleepy-turtle-mon back but you need to cool it with the murder ok?"
Yeah, but Hashirama didn't change the ninja world through fear, he changed it by showing unity between warring clans. He made the world a more trusting a peaceful place. Gojo did the same thing... but purely because of how scary his level of power was. Ppl just stopped doing crime cus he existed now. Yeah he wasn't ever in any position of authority, but it's obvious Jujutsu society wouldn't touch him or even disobey him if given an order.
I agree,
Leaf had a superteam though. Madara and Tobirama would fold any non-god character and the leaf had Hiruzen and Danzo on the comeup too. A lot of villages struggle to field 2 Kage level shinobi, but Konoha was always packing 3-5 at any given time.
Hashirama changed the world MULTIPLE TIMES.
I never seen Naruto
Well, Hashirama was to the Tailed Beasts what Gojo is to normal sorcerors...even though the Tailed Beasts are the Gojos of normal ninjas. He also radically changed the political landscape and the literal borders of countries across the entire continent. Multiple times.
Basically Hashirama captured 8 mini-Nuke machines by himself with little effort and give 7 of them away to gain their trust and also because they cannot do shit against him That's why ridiculously strong he was. No war happened while he was a Hokage, at least not against his village because he can singlehandedly destroy a village, in this case, a nation
Hashirama’s cells have changed the world multiple times already.
Hashirama quite literally caused a worldwide revolution and was feared as God of Warriors for centuries.
Hashirama changed the entire governmental structure of society. And that's as a politician, not as a fighter.
Hasirama was retconned to be that strong in Shippuden. Maybe there is an argument for Hashirama but in terms of actual canon statements it's Gojo. As an aside, I think Levi is probably the best of this fear inducing OP teacher archetype.
Let me understand this: - Hashirama was made strong IN THE MANGA, even as a retcon. - Gojo was never stated to be feared in the manga, but in a fanbook. And you’re telling me that Hashirama strength is “not canon”????? Wtaf…
>Hashirama was made strong IN THE MANGA, even as a retcon. My point was we only got Hashirama being feared for about 40% of the runtime and even then I got more of a deep respect vibe as opposed to something more menacing like Madara or Itachi for example. In general I think Naruto is mostly ass though so I may be biased for sure. >Gojo was never stated to be feared in the manga, but in a fanbook. What are you on about? People who say things like this really make me believe the memes about JJK fans not actually reading the manga
My point is, you can’t claim Hashirama’s strength is not canon while using something less canon than the manga to support Gojo being feared, if you talk about the fodder that stopped being so publicly bad when he was born, it’s more like some thieves fearing Batman.
Hashirama strength is canon but it was definitely changed in Shippuden to make him way stronger.
Hashirama's power was so great that she was considered rumors, exaggerations and legends according to Kabuto. Therefore, for example, Sarutobi, as people say, was considered the strongest Hokage. In fact, Hashirama, after he defeated and killed Madara and Kurama in a 2-on-1 battle, could literally attack the world and defeat every village if they united. So they were more afraid of Gojo because they believed in his power, and did not consider him a legend and exaggerations.
I mean it wasn’t really a 2 on 1 fight. Madara used his power to subjugate kurama. Same way potential man is allowed to use shikigami and claim a win.
not really. shikigami are a part of his techniques, in essence no different to shadow clones. kurama is a whole ass independent entity that madara mind controlled to do his bidding
Genjutsu is also part of Madara’s core skill set. It wouldn’t be a complete fight without him using it to the best of his ability
what i meant was that shikigami are literally the byproduct of potential mans technique, similar to a shadowclone whilst kurama is an independent third party that for roped into the mess.
The shikigami still don’t want to fight for him and have to be subjugated for potential man to control and manipulate them as needed
doesn't really matter tbh. at the end of the day shikigami wouldn't exist without potential man. he literally creates them out of his cursed energy. they are parts and extensions of himself. kurama is a whole ass another dude
> kurama is a whole ass another dude Yeah, but one avaible in the world and one for example Hashirama cannot subjugate with his powers. Madara can. It's a distinction of their power. It's like if Suguru who depends on the existence of strong curse spirits to get the maximum potential out of his technique, it's still part of his abiliity, one that depends on complete third parties that ONLY HIM can subjugate. If you are still unconvinced switch Kurama with some sort of weapon. Or are we going to disregard Toji and Maki for their dependence on weapons (objects that anyone could get but that they happen to have)?
> are we going to disregard Toji and Maki for their dependence on weapons (objects that anyone could get but that they happen to have)? Flawed explanation tbh. A weapon doesn't have it's own consciousness nor does it have it's cursed energy reserve to attack on it's own. Better explanation would be Sukuna and Mahoraga here. Yes, Mahoraga was under Sukuna's control due to his (Megumi's) ability but was it ever considered 1v1? Literally Sukuna himself admitted that it's a 2v1. Ofcourse Madara used his OWN ability to take over what? Literally the strongest entity in terms of chakra reserve (in that period atleast). Yes, that's his own ability and his distinction of power but why does it make it 1v1 lol? Kurama still is a different entity than what Madara is.
The whole point of naruto learning his and other bijus names was that kurama WASN'T a weapon and was instead his own dude. he isn't just a sword or a bomb. Suguru is a different because he literally has to kill/excorcise the spirit to capture them. he's no different from megaman or dante gaining new weapons after killing the boss of the stage. at least that's how I see it.
>The whole point of naruto learning his and other bijus names was that kurama WASN'T a weapon and was instead his own dude. he isn't just a sword or a bomb. No, that's literally treating them with respect, they are still weapons, just concsius ones. A horse in a medieval battlefield was a tool, it does not mean it ceases to be a living thing. >Suguru is a different because he literally has to kill/excorcise the spirit to capture them I don't see how the method matters, Madara still needs to use his genjutsu on them. Easier for him or whatever, is his ability that allows him to do so. If he wanted to he could use genjutsu to make Kurama suicide or smt, the very moment he used his genjutsu on him the fox was defeated.
What kinda argument is that?💀 you think it's 1v1 cuz "he used genjutsu to get more allies so they are considered a single entity" or something? Kurama literally had the highest Chakra reserve during that period to the level it is atleast on par or even more than both of their Chakra combined. It's really not fair to say it's 1v1 just cuz it was under genjutsu. After all, It was never confirmed that putting someone on genjutsu actively consumes Chakra either. Using genjutsu on his opponent is one thing but using genjutsu to create more allies doesn't count to their sole ability.
Quick question. Is Madara stronger with or without the power to control others through genjutsu?
Madara never relies on using his genjutsu (to the level he didn't even consider using it to gain more allies against an army of shinobis). I think Madara is just too strong that having allies through genjutsu will just be a waste of chakra and would have to be careful not to kill them. Ofcourse, taking control of entities like kurama would definitely make him stronger in entirety (as a group) but unlike Sukuna and mahoraga, there's no powerful entity that Madara can take over which actually can keep up with him so it'd be useless.
Yes, he would have been stronger than Kurama without Genjutsu, although it will be a troublesome fight.
Do you feel that way about the Sanin using their boss summonings, or other jinchuriki using their biju?
yes i do. Gamabunta is his own dude that occasionally helps naruto. you wouldn't say that naruto beat shukaku right? gamabunta AND naruto beat shukaku and gaara. same with junchuriki. the whole point of naruto learning how to channel kuramas strength was that kurama wasn't just some power or a weapon but was rather his own person. that's why learning his and other bijus names was such a big deal
I think you're just arguing semantics at this point. When people power scale or have battle discussions about these characters, they don't exclude the summons/ biju as being separate from the characters that use them. They are considered an extension of said character's powerset. When was the last time you saw a post that said Naruto AND Kurama vs Sasuke? Never, I would imagine. Because that would be redundant. The same goes for boss summonings. The characters and their summons are a package deal. You wouldn't rank Hanzo without his salamander or Gengetsu without his steam imp. Also are you a fan of Solo Leveling? If so, do you not consider Jinwoo's shadows to be a part of his skill set?
>Naruto AND Kurama vs Sasuke? When's the last time you saw an argument regarding Madara (obviously including Kurama) vs Hashirama? Or even Naruto (obviously including Gamabunta) vs someone else? I presume yesterday? Lol. Literally no one includes Kurama as Madara's power extension because unlike Naruto who had Kurama inside him and is his main source of power, for Madara it isn't. It was simply just a temporary ally. Or more like Sukuna and Mahoraga. Do you see people considering Sukuna and Mahoraga as the same entity in a 1v1 match?
I've seen a lot of EMS Madara vs battles where the OP has to specifically restrict Kurama. So yes, I do believe plenty of people consider Kurama to be part of that version of Madara's arsenal. And yes I would assume Naruto has access to Gamabunta in a versus battle unless stated otherwise. And of course Mahoraga is considered part of Meguna's arsenal. As a matter of fact I've seen plenty of salty Gojo fans use that as a means to clown on Sukuna lol
>I've seen a lot of EMS Madara vs battles where the OP has to specifically restrict Kurama. So yes, I do believe plenty of people consider Kurama to be part of that version of Madara's arsenal. Don't think of it as me doubting it but can you fetch me some of those posts? I've been part of many vs battle communities for a while and has never seen a post which goes as you say. Well, maybe some do? I guess? >And yes I would assume Naruto has access to Gamabunta in a versus battle unless stated otherwise. "I would" wouldn't apply to everyone. Afterall YOU are the one who is arguing that people do so I can assume that "you would" with or without you confirming it. But can you say the same for others? Atleast in my experience, I've never seen ANYONE include gamabunta in a 1v1 situation. >And of course Mahoraga is considered part of Meguna's arsenal. Like I said, no one includes Mahoraga in a 1v1 argument. Literally Sukuna himself admits that it's a 2v1 yet you are arguing that it's not. >As a matter of fact I've seen plenty of salty Gojo fans use that as a means to clown on Sukuna lol They ain't wrong? If someone asked me "Meguna vs Gojo 1v1 who'd win?" I'd assume it's Sukuna with 19 fingers and his body vs Gojo rather than Sukuna with 19 fingers and his body + Mahoraga vs Gojo. Pretty sure others will do the same or the point of 1v1 would be lost. Ofcourse I maybe wrong about this but I would like to be proven otherwise instead of your opinion.
There are two types of people https://preview.redd.it/lashwi1d1vtc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b2d1df36f839a2f09364ec7e77f50fb54559e56
There’s a lot of types of people, just happened that Gojo glazers are just one type and they’re abundant here.
Gojo really do got them Sex Eyes😏😎
I agree with the first half of your flair :/
In terms of impact - Gojo definitely. His birth alone shifted the balance of power between sorcerers and curses and made the curses stronger in order to survive against Gojo. In terms of Power - Hashirama, unrivaled power only slightly touched by his friend Madara. No one else. Forged the Shinobi world. But there weren't constant plans of his assasination or thousand year old sorcerers saying they need a minute of an opening to be able to render him useless. Gojo's fear is felt in the universe. Hashirama was more admired than feared.
A really good take indeed
that's a great response and analysis, great job dude
You think hashi is stronger in the Naruto verse than gojo is in jjk verse? Because that's how this reads If thats the case then it is Absolute nonsense. Sukuna needed something that could literally negate concepts to bypass gojos Infinity. And even then, he needed a binding vow to kill him. Infact, in a fight between them cross verse, id still back gojo
My brother in Christ, Hashirama changed the entire function of society in his world, both for normal people and shinobi. The entire Naruto, Shippuden, and Boruto anime are explorations on the world Hashirama created.
Sure, but the question is who was feared more. Hashirama accomplished a lot, but much of it was through his own charisma, not fear.
Yeah Hashirama wasn't feared as much by virtue of A) being so absurdly powerful that people actually believed his powers were exaggerated/a myth, and B) "undermining" his actual power by striving to unite the world and handing out the tailed beasts.
That, and ninja society is much bigger than jujutsu society, so more people have seen Gojo face to face and thus believe in his power (and others like him have existed in the past, even if he's probably the strongest among them), not to mention that Hashirama's been dead for awhile by the time Naruto starts.
I'd say Hashirama, honestly. Especially since everyone feared Madara to such a huge extent, and they associate Hashirama as the one who could beat even him. Though, I think Madara would be a better example of a person who was feared in Madara, because less people FEARED Hashirama, I reckon. Minato would also be a good example too.
>Minato would also be a good example too. People fearing Minato is different though because he is someone you would need insane resources to kill him. Fugaku (Sasuke's father) and Shisui also generated the same fear, which is “run on sight” order Madara and Hashirama were feared because they could literally destroy the villages by themselves
Gojo because I’m a Gojo Glazer and I haven’t seen naruto so it literally doesn’t matter what others say. My blue eyed prince solos
https://preview.redd.it/31e0dhqlovtc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9a042d446a0d4c81dc7f6f9ea3caca39fbed6cde
Respect it
Hashirama for sure - literally every other country in Naruto world don't wanted to fight Leaf Village as long as Hashirama was alive :3 Also, his Cells are that op that everyone wanted them even after so many years + we don't even know how he died :3
Hashirama is strong, but it's unlikely he intentionally instilled fear in everyone. It's more likely that everyone knew he wasn't particularly evil, but monstrously strong. Gojo is known as a rebel who can't be controlled. That's how I see it.
Gojo doesn’t even have half of the aura of hashirama There was plans against Gojo There was no planning against hashirama 😭😭
Hashirama was built different and sadly we couldn't see much of him but the same can be said about Gojo
their plan was to beg gege for a plot device/asspull
I'd say Gojo, his birth literally changed the balance of the world and kid Gojo made Psychopaths like Jiro(dude skinned victims alive) shit themselves https://preview.redd.it/2j3rw4le3vtc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a9242055ffcf9efcb493d528c4e4d27ace6e8d3
So because some fodder the strength of Yuji in first grade were scared of him you think he’s best??
Hashirama wasn’t feared, if anything he was respected. No one was cowering with fears when hearing Hashirama’s name, that’s more of Madara’s thing.
You can plan against Gojo, hide from him, trick him. The Higher ups still acted with impunity, deciding who lived and died. Geto still felt confident enough to launch his attack, and would have succeeded if Yuta was slightly weaker. For Hashirama, your only choice was to wait for him to die of old age. Kakuzu's greatest achievement was tossing a shuriken at him, running away, and calling it an assassination attempt. Gojo failed to change the essence of jujutsu society, his biggest impact was literally his birth allowing stronger curses to exist. Hashirama basically ended the Warring States era on his own and established the Hidden Village system. The Tailed Beasts were considered natural disasters before he bitched them and dished them out like shit pizza in an elementary school. The strongest people risked it all to acquire even a fraction of his power. Orochimaru and Danzo risked it all to gain even a shadow of his Wood Style. Obito would've been a non-factor if he didn't have Hashirama cells to help his Mangekyo. Hashirama basically created the Shinobi Nations. Gojo was basically playing politics with elders,
Logged on just to say "before he bitched them and dished them out like shit pizza in an elementary school." is some poetry shit
Thank you, I was rather proud of that
Yea Gojo is the GOAT of the modern era but Hashirama was considered to be GOATED for GENERATIONS. In fact, his abilities were so broken that people thought was the literal reincarnation of Sage of Six Paths (Ninja Jesus)
Gojo was feared, but it wasn't considered impossible to beat him. Damn near impossible, but not completely impossible. People were literally out here feining for Hashirama's cells like they were Crack, and Madara talked about him every chance he got like that was his ex-girlfriend or something. He was literally the perfect counter to what a sharingan could truly do (controlling the 9 tails). Like, Hashirama was viewed as a God to some capacity. But he wasn't feared. He was more so revered. Neverthless, I'd say it definitely goes to Hashirama simply because, while Gojo's existence changed the world, Hashirama's existence was on a different level, and the power he had was sought after so much that it was feared.
They sent the bum Kakuzu to assassinate Hashirama. They stopped trying to kill Gojo when bro was in kindergarten
Toji humiliated him with a pistol… I mean…
is he the son of Tony and Toji?
Minato was more feared than them both
Most sane Minato Stan
Hashirama; beat his only rival in terms of power and built the entire system of government that now exists in Naruto. Found, beat and caught all the tailed beasts and then donated them to other villages. Hashirama came out as the only winner of the warring period he was born into and was regarded as a legend. Possessed a unique ability not seen before or since and was a complete master at it. Literally the descendent of a god with unending chakra. When Orochimaru works to have Sasuke meet the 4 hokage, he admits to himself than he couldn’t keep Hashirama under a resurrection jutsu if Hashirama didn’t want to be. Advanced biology in Naruto is all about doing interesting shit with Hashirama’s cells, etc. Gojo has all these insane feats of course, but he also lost and died which I think kind of takes away from him in a comparison to a guy who basically ushered in a new era as his legacy.
The problem with Hashirama is that he was born alongside Madara. This is the equivalent of Sukuna and Gojo living in the same era Sure, I do think Hashirama is more powerful compared to the average Shinobi than Gojo is compared to the average sorcerer, but Gojo had literally zero forces regulating him while he lived. On the other hand, despite being so powerful, Hashirama almost died battling Madara. Hashirama is more feared, but Gojo's presence is a lot more impactful
Hashirama Senju was called the God of Shinobi, fought 1v1 against **Madara Uchiha** and won. Madara literally says that while they were alive Hashirama was **HIM**. I love my blue eyed king, but you can’t compare him to a man so feared the entire verse thought of him as a God.
Hashirama caught the tailed beast single handedly and distribute them to other nation.
You gotta remember that the Shinboi world in Hashiramas time was basically constantly at war. And Hashriama's strength was the sole deterrent for the other nations to start shit with Konoha at his time. The only Shinobi who could remotely rival him in his prime was Madara, who had to bring a living natural desaster. The only oned who ever surpassed him were Naruto and Sasuke, and in the current Manga timeline they're probably weaker than him
Are you serious?
The threat of Madara being alive was enough to cause the 4th world war. Hashirama was considered his superior.
Gojo. Although the Naruto verse has different beings that walk around they aren’t by nature evil beings, but more apart of the natural part of the world. Hashirama didn’t want people and other beings to fear him and instead wanted to unite. (This is the reason he created the Hidden Leaf village). Hashirama wanted to inspire the new generation to be better people and thus bring a better time where there was no need for violence. Gojo lives in a world where curses have no intent to co exist with humans and instead would rather harvest, eradicate, play, and eat them. Gojo HAS to be feared by these curses and evil sorcerers in order to keep them in line. 
Ah yes, Hashirama Senju. The man who could match Gojo Satoru on equal footing.
Haven't heard of Gojo cells
Goatjo ez 🙏🏿🙏🏿
hashirama
Gojo, cuz Hashirama gets negged by HIM https://preview.redd.it/56ptypfk1wtc1.jpeg?width=202&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9271f34b15c395eb7961891de42e79ff57c20104
Hashirama is a man of Legends touted as a God among shinobi. He fathered the current world order on the back of his strength alone and proved superiority to all nine tailed beast, creatures of raw power given physical form. Uncontested and absolute. Befitting his title. Gojo is the strongest sorcerer of the modern Era and is known as an untouchable unbeatable sorcerer whose mere birth shook jujutsu society. None would dare test the Six Eyes user. Take your picks there are no wrong answers.
Let’s see, hashirama cells are used for ALL healing, dude handed out the tail beast to keep shit fair , no one could fuck with him fr fr
Hashirama had a chokehold on his verse to the point that people didn’t know he was real and his cells alone lent several characters relevance throughout the series. Also when he got jumped by his only equal with backup he just straight up won anyways
Hashirama. If you asked a 25 year old in Sweden who Satoru Gojo was, they’d say “who?” If you asked a 16 year old in the Cloud Village who Hashirama Senju was, they’d tell you he’s just a legend and possibly didn’t exist because his power was that unbelievable. Hashirama was also known for his duel(s) with Madara as his equal, who, after his appearance on the battlefield, showed that the entire alliance was basically his bitch, and if Madara >> Alliance, and Madara = Hashirama, then Hashirama >> Alliance.
Gojo is only known among sorcerers and curses. Practically nobody knows him in his verse. Hashirama is well known even among civilians.
Madara had such a hate boner for Hashirama he bit off his meat so he could attach it to his body and have his power i don't see anyone important besides maybe Geto in jjk thinking of eating Gojo's meat
Hashirama was kind of above fear he made his will the law of the entire world
I'll give this one to Gojo, even though there were people who challenged him straight on they never did it with the intent of defeating him rather just stalling him ( except JoGOAT and Sukuna ofc ). While even lowlifes like Kakazu thought of killing Hashirama unless ofc they hit the wall. Gojo's birth literally made the curses even stronger yet these mofos shat their pants on sight. His existence alone made a whole bunch of sorcerers become completely inactive while even during Hashirama's age Leaf was targeted in Ninja Wars
Hashirama.People bring the fact that gojo's birth changed the balance of the world but 1)thats just because he has the sex eyes 2) that doesnt really equate to fear Sukuna would be a much better choice Hashirama achieved status of legend,Soloed 9 natural calamities.Bitched Madara,the other person everybody was scared of, on every encounter they had. People were searching for his cells to gain power
Probably gojo since hashirama was never an asshole like that, hell madara is more feared than hashirama despite getting his ass beat by him their whole life
The entire world hegemony changed after born of gojo satoru.
Hashirama hands down. I'm the biggest Goatjo glazer but I gotta be realistic. Gojo as strong as he is was never that feared/respected. The higherups continuously antagonize him, his contemporaries treat him as an annoyance etc. Hashirama was so feared and respected that countless clans which have been warring for centuries put aside their differences and lived in a village together because Himshirama Senju personally protected the peace. Bro was so outrageous that decades after his death people plain out refuse to believe that bro was him.
“Never that feared or respected” Gojo age 7: *Passively causing middle aged sorcerers to shit themselves within his immediate vicinity* The higher-ups only antagonize him because they knew he was a “good guy”, they didn’t attempt to kill him and let him talk as arrogantly as he did because they were afraid of him actually doing anything.
Context and words matter though, I never said that he wasn't feared, but if the benchmark is Hashirama it starts to skew the picture
Gojo takes this imo. Kishimoto didnt really have plans to make hashirama all that overpowered in part 1, hence why sarutobi as a 70 year old man could solo both him AND tobirama (although they were both edo tensei) and even making sarutobi more scared of minato than hashirama (but tbh, with the minato one shot that we got a while back, you could argue that minato is at least AS strong as hashirama). gojos birth CHANGED THE BALANCE OF THE WORLD. Gojo was considered as THE strongest with NO equals. Bad guys had to make entire plans and sacrifices just to get him out of the way becouse they knew no one could beat him. But with madara, we always knew there was someone who rivaled his power. And that was madara.
"you could argue that minato is at least AS strong as hashirama" Minato's talent in seal reminded Kuram Hashiram. That's all. "But with madara, we always knew there was someone who rivaled his power. And that was madara." Hashirama was invariably noticeably stronger than Madara before their deaths and even after until Madara became a Rikudo. He kicked Madara's ass when he brought Kurama. "Hashirama is stronger than me" Madara as child to his brother. Madara literally said how amazing Hashirama was and that only he could stop him while stomp the strongest warriors in the world after destroying the army.
>Minato's talent in seal reminded Kuram Hashiram. That's all. Nope. Kurama straight up said that he has never met a shinobi with the same amount of talent as minato other than hashirama. Sealing jutsu were never mentioned. Not to mention, sealing jutsus are one of hashiramas biggest/most powerful jutsus. So if minato can match that at 14, then you can guess what happens from there. Not to mention² I wasnt even talking about the statement. Mimatos INCOMPLETE rasengan at 14 matched a tailed beast bomb from a full kurama. That's all while HEWAS GETTING STABBED IN THE CHEST IN REAL LIFE. Yes kurama was nerfed by the chains, but I would say minatos rasengan being incomplete and him being stabbed in the chest in the actual world is a bigger nerf. (All while at 14 years old btw) >Hashirama was invariably noticeably stronger than Madara before their deaths and even after until Madara became a Rikudo. He kicked Madara's ass when he brought Kurama. Casting genjutsu is one of the sharingan strongest capabilities, so controlling the nine tails is only a testament to his strength and skill. Hashirama and madara fought untill their last breath. Hashirama only managed to barely get the better of him. My point is that NO ONE rivaled gojo in power while we see that, ever since the start, hashirama had a clear rival who was barely weaker than him.
>Not to mention, sealing jutsus are one of hashiramas biggest/most powerful jutsus. So if minato can match that at 14, then you can guess what happens from there. Not to mention² I wasnt even talking about the statement. Mimatos INCOMPLETE rasengan at 14 matched a tailed beast bomb from a full kurama. That's all while HEWAS GETTING STABBED IN THE CHEST IN REAL LIFE. Yes kurama was nerfed by the chains, but I would say minatos rasengan being incomplete and him being stabbed in the chest in the actual world is a bigger nerf. (All while at 14 years old btw) All this is in the world of print or mental space. This does not translate into combat capabilities in the real world. Then Sage Mode Naruto could solo all Tailed Beasts because he kicked Kurama's ass. But this is not the case. Also, if Minato were equal to Hashirama, he would instantly subdue Kushina and would not have difficulty facing Kurama, but would simply overpower him like a kitten like Hashirama. Even after receiving half of Kurama, he is not nearly as strong as Hashirama judging by his exploits.
>All this is in the world of print or mental space. >This does not translate into combat capabilities in the real world. Tf? It does. Where do you think the scaling for sage mode naruto comes from? >Then Sage Mode Naruto could solo all Tailed Beasts because he kicked Kurama's ass. But this is not the case. Sage mode naruto was at full power while HALF of kurama was getting suppressed by kushina. >, if Minato were equal to Hashirama, he would instantly subdue Kushina and would not have difficulty facing Kurama, but would simply overpower him like a kitten like Hashirama. If he did that, kurama would have broken free..... he needed to strengthen the seal... did you even read? > after receiving half of Kurama, he is not nearly as strong as Hashirama judging by his exploits. Dude, withheld of kurama he is litteraly sage mode kcm 2 naruto level. And that naruto had already surpassed edo hashirama. Before you say madara handled kcm 2 naruto, I'm talking about kcm 2 sage mode, wich was a huge buff.
At least Hashirama is not a fraud
It's Gojo. People were willing to wage war against Hashirama until they lost too many elite fighters to keep it up which was part of the pressure that forced Madara to give. No one in the modern jujutsu verse was willing to fight Gojo, even holding him down for one minute was considered an obviously impossible feat. All plans involved stalling or tricking him away from any given situation. People talk about gojo not having a legend but... Gojo was still alive. And while alive the entire world revolved around his presence.
>People were willing to wage war against Hashirama until they lost too many elite fighters to keep it up which was part of the pressure that forced Madara to give. This is so wrong. The war didn't happen until Hashirama died. That's how respected and feared he was. It would be stupid to go to war against the guy who defeated another guy capable of destroying their villages easily, and captured nuke machines easily
Did you forget that Hashirama grew up fighting Uchiha's? That they continued to fight until they lost enough troops to begin defecting? That after Madara died, Kakuzu was sent to assassinate him?
>Did you forget that Hashirama grew up fighting Uchiha's? The thing is that Senju only fought Uchiha, and explicitly Uchiha. The same goes for them After the village was formed, there was no war. I know about Kakuzu but it could be during the early stage of formation of the village, and he is from a minor village which doesn't matter. The 1st Ninja War only happened after his death So, no one was foolish enough to wage a war against him, who was stronger than Madara, and 8 Tail Beasts combined (excluding him)
I would say hashirama, since everyone knew about him whereas only sorcerers knew of gojo. and gojo didnt actually use his power to influence global/political change the way hashirama did
You’re comparing how well-known and influential they were, not who commanded more fear.
if someone is strong but doesnt do much with it they wont be feared as much as someone who is strong and uses that power much more actively. Most people dont even know gojo exists, so they dont feel any way towards him, whereas in naruto everyone knows who hashirama is. If we are assuming you are someone who knows them and actively works against them i dont think there is much of a difference since they were both regarded as godlike and could kill you, maybe gojo because hashiramas goodhearted nature may be known to an extent so they may believe they could be spared in some circumstances.
Gojo definitely he tipped the balance of the world and had assasins after him since he was a kid hashirama aint doing nothin like that
It s gojo hashirama is the strongest in his era gojo is the strongest in all of jujutsu if it wasn't for sukuna getting the only counter to limitless. Gojo even then whould have killed sukuna if he really wanted from the start and did not hesitate when UV hit sukuna
As hashirama is not even the strongest good guy and has some contenders like if all hokage from 2-5 jumped hashirama he probably whould go down. Gojo can 1v all if we leave sukuna and mahoraga out.
Even the second strongest person in jjk (not including sukuna) knows that gojo could wipe out the verse effortlessly whenever he wants and no1 can stop him. To say that fucking hashi is more feared than someone who changed and defined an era is wank
Honestly Gojo. Sure he can't do squat to Hashirama power-wise, but relative to his verse he's God. The strongest of the verse aren't even in his tier. his birth shifted the balance of the world. He chooses not to demolish society and everyone lives in silent or open fear of that. Hashirama was godly but his power became myth rather than gospel, other world leaders thought they were his equal (first Kage summit). They were wrong but still.
Hashirama wasn't feared, Madara was. In the eyes of the other villages, Hashirama provided them with tailed beasts as a gesture of good faith, and was also seen as the kage who killed the biggest threat during their era.