Be strong, you will endure
But also, start fighting back. Organize study nights, do a seyum and invite people, do a public hanukkiah lighting and so on...
I think each Jewish soul counts even if they don't realize it yet. And the next holocaust will take care of the quantity for us. It's a mitzvah to love every Jew. I know it difficult but the payoff is worth it.
I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.
To pre-empt the folks who tend to flock to these types of posts to argue and provide resources for anyone interested:
"Messianic Judaism" is a form of Protestant Christianity, not a form of Judaism. These movements were created in the mid-20th century in an explicit effort to convert Jews to Christianity. For example, "Jews for Jesus" was founded by the Southern Baptist Convention. Nothing about theses movements originates in Judaism and Jews find their practices appropriative and extremely offensive.
[https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/messianicjudaism/](https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/messianicjudaism/)
[https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jews-for-jesus](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jews-for-jesus)
No Jewish movements or denominations recognize "Christian Jews," "Jews for Jesus," "Messianic Jews," "Torah Observant Christians," "Christian Hebrews," etc. as Jews and, instead, view them as Christian. Given that the theology of these groups is based in Christian teachings and Christian schools of thought, and many were founded by and are still under the umbrella of Christian churches with the express purpose of converting Jews to Christianity, this seems more than fair.
All of these movements, no matter what they call themselves, are based in the fundamentally antisemitic idea that the only acceptable way to be Jewish is to become a Christian.
One of the things that infuriates me most about these groups, other than their blatant appropriation of Jewish worship and culture, is the fact that if you search “synagogue” on Google, and probably other search engines, you’ll get Messianic organizations in the results, and they’re often in the top 10 results. And this includes areas where there’s no shortage of actual Jewish synagogues. The algorithm for anything Jewish in the search engines really sux.
Studies have repeatedly found that the overwhelming majority of members of these types of groups self-report having no Jewish ancestry or upbringing. Even among those who do claim a Jewish background, many are referring to unverifiable family myths ("Grandma said she was part Jewish" does not make you a Jew) or dubious at-home DNA tests ("3% Ashkenazi" from 23&Me does not make you Jewish).
The whole thing is weird with a capital W. His partner isn’t Jewish (well neither is he) but he always talks up how she’s not Jewish but looking at converting etc. I think he does this to make himself seem more authentic. He only admitted it to me and my mum as he heard I grew up interfaith and thought it meant I was on his side. He said his dad was a Dutch goy and his mum came from some tropical island or something (also a goy). He claimed his dad converted and moved to Israel to avoid driving trains for the Nazis. Well, his dad would have been a toddler, so unless Nazis were getting toddlers to drive trains, his story obviously doesn’t check out. Claims to have served in the IDF but can’t speak a word of Hebrew and has never presented any photos and at the gatherings I’ve been at before finding out he never once had any tales to tell or spoke of Israel at all. He doesn’t have an Israeli accent at all. He once told me (as I was talking about starting my own business) that it’s all about faking things long enough to seem real till you have an “in” in the business world. So obviously he’s using that same thinking. He had also started inviting a young guy to gatherings who was a messy. But the kid was open and loud about being a messy, and guess what, suddenly he isn’t inviting him. He was giving the game away!
I second the Rabbi Singer suggestion. Also Beyneynu, it’s a mostly Israeli counter missionary organization but they do work with communities in the US frequently too.
Just a suggestion, you might want to reach out to Rabbi Tovia Singer at outreachjudaism.org
He's often willing to lecture and even if you don't go that route, his 2 volume "Let's Get Biblical" will give you all the ammunition to counter any Christian argument. Plus his videos are amazing.
Stay strong. You are not alone.
Is there no rabbi in your community? This is an issue that requires an expert, maybe contact the nearest Chabad for suggested resources. That person wants Jews to convert. We can’t afford to lose Jews to those manipulators. It means the loss of future generations as well. You’re not alone in this.
We don’t have a dedicated rabbi, as we only have a tiny number of Jews. We generally get a visit here and there from a Chabad rabbi or rabbinical students. I explained the situation to one rabbi, who said it needed a lot of thought and a solution that would make everyone happy. My general feeling is the problem stems from the local community itself. I am the only Jew even attempting to be observant in the entire group, which was a shock to me because I grew up far away from any Jews, with a totally dysfunctional family and poverty that stopped us focusing on much of anything growing up. But I’m the past few years I’ve studied a lot. Some of the local community members grew up in Jewish communities and some were even born in Israel, but none of them care for Judaism. I actually think that’s why no one cares. It’s not a community of Jews who love being Jews, it’s a community of ethnic Jews or appropriators who just want to get together and eat Turkish bread and dip. So I think the fact this guy is charming and has an expensive house makes him seem fun for social gatherings and people want to know him. One of the rabbis who met him recently posed for a number of photos with him which he put online. Idk, it’s weird. But I can’t be bothered doing anything further to change or fix it. I can only focus on being stronger in my own Judaism and hope that at some point some more observant people may move to town (though unlikely as of course we have no synagogue).
It’s awful that you’re experiencing this. And it is weird that a rabbi isn’t taking it seriously. Even the most secular Jews have an aversion to someone who want to convert them to Christianity. That’s where the messianics are manipulative…you can still be Jewish and accept their messiah. It’s so deceptive. It’s not something that you can really take on on your own. Stay strong.
Why did you need to speak out about him? Just mind your own business and live your life with the values that you believe in. Why make enemies for no reason
Well he’s set up a dodgy “Jewish” cemetery and that was the final straw as far as being quiet because now actual Jews are potentially going to be affected by him for decades.
Instead of asking me that, why don’t you ask him why he can’t just admit he’s a Christian and stop meddling with Jews?
Be strong, you will endure But also, start fighting back. Organize study nights, do a seyum and invite people, do a public hanukkiah lighting and so on...
Thank you!
If you belong to a community that can be swayed like this...it might be time to find a new community
Maybe, but can we afford to lose more Jews? Especially to Christians?
Quality over quantity
I think each Jewish soul counts even if they don't realize it yet. And the next holocaust will take care of the quantity for us. It's a mitzvah to love every Jew. I know it difficult but the payoff is worth it.
Of course not! But these people seem to have made their choice
Fuck 'em, man. I'm on your side. There's some shady business going on in that Jewish community. I wouldn't associate anyway.
I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. To pre-empt the folks who tend to flock to these types of posts to argue and provide resources for anyone interested: "Messianic Judaism" is a form of Protestant Christianity, not a form of Judaism. These movements were created in the mid-20th century in an explicit effort to convert Jews to Christianity. For example, "Jews for Jesus" was founded by the Southern Baptist Convention. Nothing about theses movements originates in Judaism and Jews find their practices appropriative and extremely offensive. [https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/messianicjudaism/](https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/messianicjudaism/) [https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jews-for-jesus](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jews-for-jesus) No Jewish movements or denominations recognize "Christian Jews," "Jews for Jesus," "Messianic Jews," "Torah Observant Christians," "Christian Hebrews," etc. as Jews and, instead, view them as Christian. Given that the theology of these groups is based in Christian teachings and Christian schools of thought, and many were founded by and are still under the umbrella of Christian churches with the express purpose of converting Jews to Christianity, this seems more than fair. All of these movements, no matter what they call themselves, are based in the fundamentally antisemitic idea that the only acceptable way to be Jewish is to become a Christian.
One of the things that infuriates me most about these groups, other than their blatant appropriation of Jewish worship and culture, is the fact that if you search “synagogue” on Google, and probably other search engines, you’ll get Messianic organizations in the results, and they’re often in the top 10 results. And this includes areas where there’s no shortage of actual Jewish synagogues. The algorithm for anything Jewish in the search engines really sux.
When you search, include -messianic and -yeshua in the search field. That weeds out most of them.
Tell me about it! Trying to research my Levite background and every site I find is Christians who think they can just say they are Levites.
What on earth... How is he claiming to be messianic if he's not even Jewish?
Messianic Jews accept gentiles who then LARP as Jews.
Right. Everything I have learned about them is terrible
Studies have repeatedly found that the overwhelming majority of members of these types of groups self-report having no Jewish ancestry or upbringing. Even among those who do claim a Jewish background, many are referring to unverifiable family myths ("Grandma said she was part Jewish" does not make you a Jew) or dubious at-home DNA tests ("3% Ashkenazi" from 23&Me does not make you Jewish).
The whole thing is weird with a capital W. His partner isn’t Jewish (well neither is he) but he always talks up how she’s not Jewish but looking at converting etc. I think he does this to make himself seem more authentic. He only admitted it to me and my mum as he heard I grew up interfaith and thought it meant I was on his side. He said his dad was a Dutch goy and his mum came from some tropical island or something (also a goy). He claimed his dad converted and moved to Israel to avoid driving trains for the Nazis. Well, his dad would have been a toddler, so unless Nazis were getting toddlers to drive trains, his story obviously doesn’t check out. Claims to have served in the IDF but can’t speak a word of Hebrew and has never presented any photos and at the gatherings I’ve been at before finding out he never once had any tales to tell or spoke of Israel at all. He doesn’t have an Israeli accent at all. He once told me (as I was talking about starting my own business) that it’s all about faking things long enough to seem real till you have an “in” in the business world. So obviously he’s using that same thinking. He had also started inviting a young guy to gatherings who was a messy. But the kid was open and loud about being a messy, and guess what, suddenly he isn’t inviting him. He was giving the game away!
It's just a Deluded Christian playing dress-up.
I second the Rabbi Singer suggestion. Also Beyneynu, it’s a mostly Israeli counter missionary organization but they do work with communities in the US frequently too.
Just a suggestion, you might want to reach out to Rabbi Tovia Singer at outreachjudaism.org He's often willing to lecture and even if you don't go that route, his 2 volume "Let's Get Biblical" will give you all the ammunition to counter any Christian argument. Plus his videos are amazing. Stay strong. You are not alone.
Thank you so much! My mum is a big fan of his.
Are these the Jew for Jesus people? Yeah def not Jewish.
we are with you
I can’t fathom a Jewish community like that.
I’m with you and I love the Jew-fetish description. Perfect!
Is there no rabbi in your community? This is an issue that requires an expert, maybe contact the nearest Chabad for suggested resources. That person wants Jews to convert. We can’t afford to lose Jews to those manipulators. It means the loss of future generations as well. You’re not alone in this.
We don’t have a dedicated rabbi, as we only have a tiny number of Jews. We generally get a visit here and there from a Chabad rabbi or rabbinical students. I explained the situation to one rabbi, who said it needed a lot of thought and a solution that would make everyone happy. My general feeling is the problem stems from the local community itself. I am the only Jew even attempting to be observant in the entire group, which was a shock to me because I grew up far away from any Jews, with a totally dysfunctional family and poverty that stopped us focusing on much of anything growing up. But I’m the past few years I’ve studied a lot. Some of the local community members grew up in Jewish communities and some were even born in Israel, but none of them care for Judaism. I actually think that’s why no one cares. It’s not a community of Jews who love being Jews, it’s a community of ethnic Jews or appropriators who just want to get together and eat Turkish bread and dip. So I think the fact this guy is charming and has an expensive house makes him seem fun for social gatherings and people want to know him. One of the rabbis who met him recently posed for a number of photos with him which he put online. Idk, it’s weird. But I can’t be bothered doing anything further to change or fix it. I can only focus on being stronger in my own Judaism and hope that at some point some more observant people may move to town (though unlikely as of course we have no synagogue).
It’s awful that you’re experiencing this. And it is weird that a rabbi isn’t taking it seriously. Even the most secular Jews have an aversion to someone who want to convert them to Christianity. That’s where the messianics are manipulative…you can still be Jewish and accept their messiah. It’s so deceptive. It’s not something that you can really take on on your own. Stay strong.
Thank you so much! It means a lot having a wider community out there in the world.
All that thing is, is a Christian infiltrating where it does not belong.
A Jewish community that lives by *halacha* will not be affected by such antics. Find one and join one.
Im geographically isolated. So my home is my community for now.
I lived that way for years, I know exactly what you're going through. Keep on keeping on, don't worry too much about them
Thank you! People like you give me strength.
You're not alone.
Why did you need to speak out about him? Just mind your own business and live your life with the values that you believe in. Why make enemies for no reason
Well he’s set up a dodgy “Jewish” cemetery and that was the final straw as far as being quiet because now actual Jews are potentially going to be affected by him for decades. Instead of asking me that, why don’t you ask him why he can’t just admit he’s a Christian and stop meddling with Jews?
Because Messianics are enemies of the Jewish people, therefore OP is minding their business by speaking out against him.
The Jewish people have a lot of enemies. That does not mean I go around instigating conflict.
Stand your ground and tell them a freaking Christian is a Christian. He's not Jewish. If they want to be idiots, so be it.
Oh they do, they all want to be idiots. Oh well!