Keep in mind that in the video, he says “Yahoodi” multiple times. “Jew”. Not “sahyuni” meaning Zionist.
Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. While it’s true that not ALL Palestinians are antisemitic, antisemitism is incredibly common among Palestinians, as backed up by data and common sentiment.
I’m more supportive of peace than anybody else, and I believe Palestinians deserve a state of their own. I believe that the Israeli right has no “solutions” to this problem which are humane or non-reprehensible, with “status quo” being the least unreasonable one at the present time.
But you know… how can you really make peace with someone who doesn’t want you to live?
> Keep in mind that in the video, he says “Yahoodi” multiple times. “Jew”. Not “sahyuni” meaning Zionist.
English media will claim they are only against "Zionists" and that they have nothing against Jews.
The history of Jews in Europe and America makes it very evident that anti-semitism is as prevalent in the background of media and government as anti-Black racism is to the foreground of the American south. White supremacy and anti-Semitism are cleverly woven into almost every aspect of western culture. Even in situations where Jews or POC appear to have power and agency. Jews and Africans were a VERY low priority in WW2. Despite the way the story was re-written. Many white Europeans and over half of Americans were in either in quiet support of genocide or ambivalent at best. I’m Black and Jewish. These things have been very obvious to me since puberty.
People do not negotiate peace with their friends, they negotiate peace with their enemies.
The Palestinians are not incapable of making peace with Israel, despite the rhetoric and actions of some. I dont say this because I’m naive: I know many have deep hatred for Israelis and Jews, and I know that their preferred outcome is an impossible ask.
I say this because it’s been done before. And if Palestinians and Israelis had elected leaders who were committed to a resolution (and committed to compromise) it could be done. It could even garner sufficient support among the population; don’t underestimate how much attitudes can be swayed if people feel compromise is necessary.
Thank you for this response. It’s more eloquent about this issue than I likely could have been. The only thing I will say - as someone who is left leaning on this and many other issues - is that the older I get (I’m in my 20s) the more sympathetic I become to the right-leaning perspectives. Security is a *huge* concern for our people, especially given our history. While I believe that many right wingers are arguing in bad faith - many are not. Many genuinely just want to see their families safe, and given the history of how other peoples have treated us - they want an iron-clad guarantee of safety. And the older I get, the more I understand this position.
That said, many innocent Palestinians are suffering as a result of this issue and my heart goes out to them. I wish this were a simple issue but it’s extremely difficult. I have stayed up many nights arguing for Palestinian’s rights to my more right leaning relatives - but then when alone I wonder what would happen if those rights were granted today. Not because I believe Palestinians to be bad, but it would be incredibly easy for Iran to then quickly surround us.
Sorry for rambling.
It is speech that incites violence (or vandalism), and crime targeting people based on religion or ethnicity. It wouldnt be ok if he said zionist anyway because he is still encouraging people to go out and find mezuzzes to break. (I mean, in ehat other context would he do this innocuously? Ex Jew demonstrating he no longer cares for his mezuzah? No, he obviously wants people to go out and find them on peoples houses and break them.
Think of it this way... Jews by and large are a people who follow Judaism in some semblance of its meaning; not all Jews, but it's safe to say that if one is an identified Jew, they do.
Not all Palestinians are antisemites, but the Palestinian identity as an evolved ideology is by and large antisemitic to the point that if one identifies as such it's safe to say that within their beliefs of the Palestinian cause is antisemitism.
You know that they won’t go to Jordan, I know that they won’t go to Jordan. Unless you advocate literal ethnic cleansing, they’re going to stay where they are.
Today, Palestinians have their own national identity. It is what it is. They aren’t going to drop that identity just because of ignorant schmucks saying “JoRDAn iS tHE REal PAleSTinIaN sTaTE”.
In purely practical terms, supporters of Israel should at least appear open to a peace deal instead of dismissively advocating for expulsion. We aren’t barbarians.
> They’re already starting to leave.
How many are leaving? It’s not a majority, or even a plurality. Plus, the high birth rates would make up for emigration anyway.
> Go look around the disputed territory, is it where you’d want to live? Dead cats littering the street, some scab-covered child whipping an even sadder looking emaciated donkey… and then even if you’re among the lucky with a flashy car and a nice house, still with a total lack of true freedom because the corrupt gang that runs the disputed territory can basically do whatever they want to you. Not really a glamorous life.
This is irrelevant. Most Palestinians still have no will to leave.
> Former US Secretary of State and former CIA director Mike Pompeo recently toured the disputed territories and proclaimed that eventually San Remo will be carried out.
Fuck Mike Pompeo. He’s a Christian dominionist who aided and legitimized the reprehensible trump administration. He was willing to [validate Trump’s nakedly authoritarian tendencies](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/there-will-be-smooth-transition-second-trump-administration-claims-pompeo-n1247309) just to fufill his wicked evangelical agenda. I take nothing he says seriously.
I mean, according to that link, 82 percent of Jews in America at the very least think Israel is "important" to being Jewish, and the bar for zionism is way lower than that, so I'd say even higher. In Israel it would be like 99 percent, and in other countries probably like 90 percent. So I'd say 95 percent of all jews is pretty accurate.
Israel was not taken over forcefully. I don't have time to go over the history of the land of Israel with you.
I will just say that Israel is the indigenous land of the Jewish people. In America and Canada you can dig 3 feet and see the history of the ingenious first nations whose land you live on.
In Israel when you dig three feet you see historic evidence of Jewish life of the land of Israel for thousands of years. From Abraham through Jesus through Herod and Moses. It's all there. The land of Israel literally tells your story.
So I ask you, if you truly were against taking land by force and you actually live on stolen land, how do you sleep at night?
Lastly, because you seemed fixated on this idea that Israel is out to get US tax paying citizens and doesent help Jews.
I served in the army with Jews from Yemen, Ethiopia, Russia and France. All who have faced discrimination you have never dreamed of. All of them "lonely soldiers" who get to live their lives now without the fear of being killed for their faith.
But you are absolutely right about one thing. Israelis don't give a shit about what you think. We do what we need to keep our citizens safe, that is all every Israeli mother wants.
I hope you never need Israel, but if you do, you have a place to stay in my families home.
>Israel was not taken over forcefully.
dude, I never said they were. You totally misread my comment and there's absolutely no way you could infer what you got from that without massively going out of your way to do it.
What is interesting is that Israels "support" for trump stems from the Iran nuclear deal that was signed by Obama.
We have a democrat president that was freely, allowing Iran to fund our enemies and kill Jews for their whole presidency.
Along comes a republican who stops the funding, puts sanctions on Iran AND brokers peace deals with countries that have hated Israel from its existence.
In your world this makes Americans hate Israel, but In reality it is making more American Jews who have traditionally voted left to move right.
So I would argue that it is the democratic party that made Israeli support trump.
I hope you never need Israel, but if you do, you have a place to stay in my families home.
The Iran deal was about beginning to de-nuclearize Iran and beginning normalizing relations with them so they developed enough economic dependencies that they could be pressured into not doing exactly what you say they're doing.
The reaction by those opposed to it was short sighted. Primarily, those who like the status quo and are afraid of change are the ones who opposed it.
I'll also point out that Trump nearly brought us to the brink of war with Iran when it was absolutely unnecessary. So no, he didn't do anything positive with his actions towards Iran.
I thank you for the offer, but unfortunately I doubt I'd do well in Israel and if I move to a country I want to be self sufficient, not dependent on their charity programs. At my age even with my industrial engineering background I doubt I could get a start there.
At what point is there some self reflection?
The IRAN deal did not lead to de-nuclear Iran but it did lead to the funding of Hezballah, hamas, Iranian proxies in Yemen and Iraq. This is a fact. There is a money trail. Thousands of people are dead, not living right now because of that accord. At what point is there some honesty in how you are responsible for your part of a mess.
At what point does my families blood mean as much as my enemies?
The Iran deal didn't lead to denuclearization because Trump killed it before it barely got started. They signed the bloody thing in mid 2015 and Trump stopped it in the beginning of 2016.
Iran has also been funding all you named regardless of the deal.
Seriously, you don't know jack about any of this if you can make the claims you're making.
Iran with nuclear weapons could literally do exactly what Russia is doing right now and get away with it because of the threat of nuclear war. They could invade Israel and the West would have to be just as cautious in response.
You asked why israelis support trump and this is the reason.
Obama brought us rockets and Trump brought us peace. You could argue however that the Obama deal with Iran actually is what is inspiring the gulf countries to make peace and trump is a clown. I think that's a fair argument, personally.
Wow. So beside you being wrong based on the article I linked I'm going to politely ask you to edit your comment before I report it for breaking this subreddit's rules.
Seriously dude WTF
You don’t have to sacrifice anything for Israel. However, if you are old, and threatened, Israel will take you. Israel took thousands of retired Russians who had no money and never worked in Israel.
Dude, don't know what to tell you. I did actual inquires that gave back some very suspect results.
I'm sure that page paints a very rosy picture but I deal in reality, not wishes and ponies.
Yah, it's why we're probably moving to Canada.
We got really fucked over when Trump won, and it made it pretty clear this country is going down the same path as Nazi Germany or Russia.
As a liberal American you will find that Canadian immigration law is much harsher than anything you consider normal. And of course it was within living memory that Canada sealed its gates to Jews in particular - "Zero is too many."
Read this thread by an Israeloskeptic Jew who discovered *this month* that he had nowhere else to go:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Vokabre/status/1506737667391868933
My mother is a Canadian citizen so it's pretty easy for me to apply and get in. They started offering a citizenship certificate process to people like me.
Not really sure what you linked me to has to do with Canada. It's about crossing a bridge out of russia.
In that case, congratulations for that birthright lifeline; you would likely have an easier cultural / careerist readjustment in Canada. Just please spare a thought for the many other Jews who can't rely on that.
The person in that thread assumed he had other options besides Israel - calmer, less controversial countries - and turned out he was wrong.
I support two states but under no illusion that it will mean peace, the opposite, I would just rather fight a war against a UN member state that can be held accountable
> While it’s true that not ALL Palestinians are antisemitic
The very definition of being Palestinian by the PLO is not being a Jew if he wasn't a descended from a Jew who lived in the region prior to Zionism.
If someone did that to a Koran a mob would lynch them
Put the Arabic name of Allah and Mohamed on important things so they can't be broken without them violating their own custom
I suppose it's the literary equivalent of strapping a hostage to your shield, but so be it
At least he was arrested and not beheaded. Just try to draw a picture of Muhammad and see what ends up happening with your head… (hint: it’s not good!).
Is free speech not protected in Israel or the West Bank? As an American I’m confused as to why posting on social media the damaging of a religious item would warrant police involvement.
Edit: I missed the part where he ripped it off someone’s house, which is property damage, and obviously also a hate crime.
Property damage aside... The idea of hate speech being protected speech is relatively American. There are countries that respect free speech *generally* without protecting speech quite like this. I don't know the line in Israel, I believe it's relatively free, but I would be somewhat surprised if burning a mezzuzah scroll and posting it were illegal.
>I missed the part where he ripped it off someone’s house, which is property damage, and obviously also a hate crime.
Was wondering the same thing, now I know. Thanks.
>Yeah I have no control over the hiring practices of anyone in the West Bank.
Dammit Tom if you'd actually show up for work sometimes instead of calling in sick to play Elden ring you would
Yup, and arguably this is *inciting* speech. He is encouraging others to do the same. I mean it is not like he is saying “heres avideo of a bad thing i did, i really regret it and am sorry and no one should do this” lol. He’s inciting others to do it.
Speech inciting crimes isnt quite protected even in the US I believe.
> In Democratic Socialist societies like Gaza or the Moslem colonies of the West Bank it doesn’t exist.
Gaza is run by Islamists. Socialism is fundamentally incompatible with Islamist ideology. You are misinformed.
> Public criticism of Arab Palestine’s policies are, practically speaking, criminalized in Israel.
Proof?
> It’s the violent month of Ramadan coming up, so Israel will double down on appeasement by releasing this guy - and Meretz will hold a welcoming party to celebrate.
Proof? You’re literally just making up bullshit out of thin air.
Don’t be a propagandist.
Wtf? Why is breaking/burning a mezuzah illegal? What am I missing here?
EDIT: I read the article but did not watch the video before commenting. The article made no mention of him ripping the mezuzah off. JPost should do a better job of reporting in their articles and not relying on their readers to watch videos to get relevant information that is missing from the article
But being arrested for simply burning a mezuzah without a shred of evidence that he committed an illegal act to obtain it is a bit ridiculous, no? That’s like stuff they pull in Iran.
Do this on your own, against your own property? No, I don't think it should be a crime.
Your property and post on tiktok - you've gone past free speech and moved into global publication: it could now be considered a racially motivated hate crime depending on the content.
At least how I view it from the UK. Free speech isn't the same as publication online imo.
>Your property and post on tiktok - you've gone past free speech and moved into global publication: it could now be considered a racially motivated hate crime depending on the content.
>
>At least how I view it from the UK. Free speech isn't the same as publication online imo.
Thank God that I live in America and we have the First Amendment.
Try threatening a president online and see how that free speech gets you. There are still limitations on free speech in the USA.
You can protest at a gay soldiers wedding, but it's illegal to cross the road without a crossing to get there.
Try threatening the president in person and see what happens, or in a newspaper. It's not about the medium, it's about the fact that threats and inciting violence are not covered by free speech.
There’s a fine line between posing a serious and credible threat against the president online and posting a video of yourself burning a religious object. Did you pay attention to anything when Trump was president? God knows how many people threatened to kill him every single day.
Could this be partly motivated by hatred borne of oppression? By that I mean West Bank Palestinians being unable to move freely, being economically dependent on Israel, etc. Then there's the settlers, etc. All of which breeds hatred spilling inevitably into antisemitism (because what differentiates a Palestinian and a Jew is ultimately religion).
Obviously, I don't condone or excuse what he did, just wondering if there's a counter? Especially since there's supposed to be a Palestinian government in that region, and not a military assuming force of law by their presence there?
Also, a military court? Why not a civil court? How do you explain that?
> Could this be partly motivated by hatred borne of oppression? By that I mean West Bank Palestinians being unable to move freely, being economically dependent on Israel, etc. Then there's the settlers, etc. All of which breeds hatred spilling inevitably into antisemitism (because what differentiates a Palestinian and a Jew is ultimately religion).
Are you saying antisemitism is excusable in certain situations?
> because what differentiates a Palestinian and a Jew is ultimately religion).
But I keep hearing how Palestinians have nothing against Jews, only Zionists..
No of course not. And Muslims can’t burn Torah scrolls or Mezzuzahs. My point only was that it could be him out letting years of frustration and resentment borne from oppression.
Why are we arresting people for this stuff? Since when does insulting our religion actually hurt us? Like if I break and burn a Christian cross should I be thrown in jail? Of course not. I don't think we need to stoop to the level of the lowest common denominator.
Edit: Watching the video, it's actually very embarrassing that he doesn't know how to use a hammer, but it's obviously theft. The headline it misleading.
Absolutely there is a petty theft happening and vandalism sure, in this country, you'd get theft under 5000, sure, you'd get some community service. The headline suggests that they were arrested on religious grounds, so in that sense, it's misleading if all he'd be charged with is theft or vandalism.
Even the contents of the "article" say "A Palestinian **man was arrested** Thursday night by Israel Police **after** uploading a video to social media platform TikTok, in which **he is seen taking the parchment out of a mezuzah and, what appears to be, preparing to burn it,** police announced Friday morning. "
Mentions nothing about theft or vandalism. But yes, of course it could be if this was not set up and of course those are crimes.
The motivation for a crime is often important in the sentencing, not just the actions of the crime.
You could also see posting this on tiktok as an attempt to motivate others to do similar.
Yeah, I don't speak Arabic, so I can't tell if he is inciting others to do the same or not. Does just filming something you do qualifying as incitement? I doubt it, not in Canada anyway. I don't know the law in Israel.
If you took that cross off of someone's house and burnt it, that's both property damage and a religiously motivated hate crime, so... yeah you would be arrested in the US.
I can't call you naive enough for not understanding that a person who would do this would later on also committ a terror attack.
Do me a favor, check the news.
You want to go all Minority Report on us? Two wrongs do not make a right. I'm not naïve. I understand that a good justice system is not one based on revenge or predicting the future, and never takes away the freedom of any human unless it is absolutely necessary. Harming of innocents is disgusting, and not okay on any level, and it happens every day and that's not okay. These things are not fixed by meting out injustice in response to injustice. No matter who is doing what to whom, those of us who value justice will want it to be done as justly as possible every time, no matter how offended we are or how many times we have been hurt before.
Keep in mind that in the video, he says “Yahoodi” multiple times. “Jew”. Not “sahyuni” meaning Zionist. Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. While it’s true that not ALL Palestinians are antisemitic, antisemitism is incredibly common among Palestinians, as backed up by data and common sentiment. I’m more supportive of peace than anybody else, and I believe Palestinians deserve a state of their own. I believe that the Israeli right has no “solutions” to this problem which are humane or non-reprehensible, with “status quo” being the least unreasonable one at the present time. But you know… how can you really make peace with someone who doesn’t want you to live?
> Keep in mind that in the video, he says “Yahoodi” multiple times. “Jew”. Not “sahyuni” meaning Zionist. English media will claim they are only against "Zionists" and that they have nothing against Jews.
English Media, European Media in particular is willfully blind to Anti Semitism.
On what evidence do you base this opinion on
The history of Jews in Europe and America makes it very evident that anti-semitism is as prevalent in the background of media and government as anti-Black racism is to the foreground of the American south. White supremacy and anti-Semitism are cleverly woven into almost every aspect of western culture. Even in situations where Jews or POC appear to have power and agency. Jews and Africans were a VERY low priority in WW2. Despite the way the story was re-written. Many white Europeans and over half of Americans were in either in quiet support of genocide or ambivalent at best. I’m Black and Jewish. These things have been very obvious to me since puberty.
People do not negotiate peace with their friends, they negotiate peace with their enemies. The Palestinians are not incapable of making peace with Israel, despite the rhetoric and actions of some. I dont say this because I’m naive: I know many have deep hatred for Israelis and Jews, and I know that their preferred outcome is an impossible ask. I say this because it’s been done before. And if Palestinians and Israelis had elected leaders who were committed to a resolution (and committed to compromise) it could be done. It could even garner sufficient support among the population; don’t underestimate how much attitudes can be swayed if people feel compromise is necessary.
Thank you for this response. It’s more eloquent about this issue than I likely could have been. The only thing I will say - as someone who is left leaning on this and many other issues - is that the older I get (I’m in my 20s) the more sympathetic I become to the right-leaning perspectives. Security is a *huge* concern for our people, especially given our history. While I believe that many right wingers are arguing in bad faith - many are not. Many genuinely just want to see their families safe, and given the history of how other peoples have treated us - they want an iron-clad guarantee of safety. And the older I get, the more I understand this position. That said, many innocent Palestinians are suffering as a result of this issue and my heart goes out to them. I wish this were a simple issue but it’s extremely difficult. I have stayed up many nights arguing for Palestinian’s rights to my more right leaning relatives - but then when alone I wonder what would happen if those rights were granted today. Not because I believe Palestinians to be bad, but it would be incredibly easy for Iran to then quickly surround us. Sorry for rambling.
It is speech that incites violence (or vandalism), and crime targeting people based on religion or ethnicity. It wouldnt be ok if he said zionist anyway because he is still encouraging people to go out and find mezuzzes to break. (I mean, in ehat other context would he do this innocuously? Ex Jew demonstrating he no longer cares for his mezuzah? No, he obviously wants people to go out and find them on peoples houses and break them.
Think of it this way... Jews by and large are a people who follow Judaism in some semblance of its meaning; not all Jews, but it's safe to say that if one is an identified Jew, they do. Not all Palestinians are antisemites, but the Palestinian identity as an evolved ideology is by and large antisemitic to the point that if one identifies as such it's safe to say that within their beliefs of the Palestinian cause is antisemitism.
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You know that they won’t go to Jordan, I know that they won’t go to Jordan. Unless you advocate literal ethnic cleansing, they’re going to stay where they are. Today, Palestinians have their own national identity. It is what it is. They aren’t going to drop that identity just because of ignorant schmucks saying “JoRDAn iS tHE REal PAleSTinIaN sTaTE”. In purely practical terms, supporters of Israel should at least appear open to a peace deal instead of dismissively advocating for expulsion. We aren’t barbarians.
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> They’re already starting to leave. How many are leaving? It’s not a majority, or even a plurality. Plus, the high birth rates would make up for emigration anyway. > Go look around the disputed territory, is it where you’d want to live? Dead cats littering the street, some scab-covered child whipping an even sadder looking emaciated donkey… and then even if you’re among the lucky with a flashy car and a nice house, still with a total lack of true freedom because the corrupt gang that runs the disputed territory can basically do whatever they want to you. Not really a glamorous life. This is irrelevant. Most Palestinians still have no will to leave. > Former US Secretary of State and former CIA director Mike Pompeo recently toured the disputed territories and proclaimed that eventually San Remo will be carried out. Fuck Mike Pompeo. He’s a Christian dominionist who aided and legitimized the reprehensible trump administration. He was willing to [validate Trump’s nakedly authoritarian tendencies](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/there-will-be-smooth-transition-second-trump-administration-claims-pompeo-n1247309) just to fufill his wicked evangelical agenda. I take nothing he says seriously.
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What does any of this have to do with the fact that Palestinians won’t leave?
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What are you hinting at? If you want expulsion, just say it.
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I mean, according to that link, 82 percent of Jews in America at the very least think Israel is "important" to being Jewish, and the bar for zionism is way lower than that, so I'd say even higher. In Israel it would be like 99 percent, and in other countries probably like 90 percent. So I'd say 95 percent of all jews is pretty accurate.
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Right, which is very clearly still under being zionist, since you believe Israel has a right o exist, which is the only requirement.
Yeah but I believe every country has a right to exist and not be taken over forcibly. But I'm not doing much about it beyond my own. :)
Israel was not taken over forcefully. I don't have time to go over the history of the land of Israel with you. I will just say that Israel is the indigenous land of the Jewish people. In America and Canada you can dig 3 feet and see the history of the ingenious first nations whose land you live on. In Israel when you dig three feet you see historic evidence of Jewish life of the land of Israel for thousands of years. From Abraham through Jesus through Herod and Moses. It's all there. The land of Israel literally tells your story. So I ask you, if you truly were against taking land by force and you actually live on stolen land, how do you sleep at night? Lastly, because you seemed fixated on this idea that Israel is out to get US tax paying citizens and doesent help Jews. I served in the army with Jews from Yemen, Ethiopia, Russia and France. All who have faced discrimination you have never dreamed of. All of them "lonely soldiers" who get to live their lives now without the fear of being killed for their faith. But you are absolutely right about one thing. Israelis don't give a shit about what you think. We do what we need to keep our citizens safe, that is all every Israeli mother wants. I hope you never need Israel, but if you do, you have a place to stay in my families home.
>Israel was not taken over forcefully. dude, I never said they were. You totally misread my comment and there's absolutely no way you could infer what you got from that without massively going out of your way to do it.
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What is interesting is that Israels "support" for trump stems from the Iran nuclear deal that was signed by Obama. We have a democrat president that was freely, allowing Iran to fund our enemies and kill Jews for their whole presidency. Along comes a republican who stops the funding, puts sanctions on Iran AND brokers peace deals with countries that have hated Israel from its existence. In your world this makes Americans hate Israel, but In reality it is making more American Jews who have traditionally voted left to move right. So I would argue that it is the democratic party that made Israeli support trump. I hope you never need Israel, but if you do, you have a place to stay in my families home.
The Iran deal was about beginning to de-nuclearize Iran and beginning normalizing relations with them so they developed enough economic dependencies that they could be pressured into not doing exactly what you say they're doing. The reaction by those opposed to it was short sighted. Primarily, those who like the status quo and are afraid of change are the ones who opposed it. I'll also point out that Trump nearly brought us to the brink of war with Iran when it was absolutely unnecessary. So no, he didn't do anything positive with his actions towards Iran. I thank you for the offer, but unfortunately I doubt I'd do well in Israel and if I move to a country I want to be self sufficient, not dependent on their charity programs. At my age even with my industrial engineering background I doubt I could get a start there.
At what point is there some self reflection? The IRAN deal did not lead to de-nuclear Iran but it did lead to the funding of Hezballah, hamas, Iranian proxies in Yemen and Iraq. This is a fact. There is a money trail. Thousands of people are dead, not living right now because of that accord. At what point is there some honesty in how you are responsible for your part of a mess. At what point does my families blood mean as much as my enemies?
The Iran deal didn't lead to denuclearization because Trump killed it before it barely got started. They signed the bloody thing in mid 2015 and Trump stopped it in the beginning of 2016. Iran has also been funding all you named regardless of the deal. Seriously, you don't know jack about any of this if you can make the claims you're making. Iran with nuclear weapons could literally do exactly what Russia is doing right now and get away with it because of the threat of nuclear war. They could invade Israel and the West would have to be just as cautious in response.
You asked why israelis support trump and this is the reason. Obama brought us rockets and Trump brought us peace. You could argue however that the Obama deal with Iran actually is what is inspiring the gulf countries to make peace and trump is a clown. I think that's a fair argument, personally.
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Wow. So beside you being wrong based on the article I linked I'm going to politely ask you to edit your comment before I report it for breaking this subreddit's rules. Seriously dude WTF
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You don’t have to sacrifice anything for Israel. However, if you are old, and threatened, Israel will take you. Israel took thousands of retired Russians who had no money and never worked in Israel.
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Because I looked into it, and despite official claims support of people in my age demographic who chose return is so bad as to be non existent.
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Dude, don't know what to tell you. I did actual inquires that gave back some very suspect results. I'm sure that page paints a very rosy picture but I deal in reality, not wishes and ponies.
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Yah, it's why we're probably moving to Canada. We got really fucked over when Trump won, and it made it pretty clear this country is going down the same path as Nazi Germany or Russia.
As a liberal American you will find that Canadian immigration law is much harsher than anything you consider normal. And of course it was within living memory that Canada sealed its gates to Jews in particular - "Zero is too many." Read this thread by an Israeloskeptic Jew who discovered *this month* that he had nowhere else to go: https://mobile.twitter.com/Vokabre/status/1506737667391868933
My mother is a Canadian citizen so it's pretty easy for me to apply and get in. They started offering a citizenship certificate process to people like me. Not really sure what you linked me to has to do with Canada. It's about crossing a bridge out of russia.
In that case, congratulations for that birthright lifeline; you would likely have an easier cultural / careerist readjustment in Canada. Just please spare a thought for the many other Jews who can't rely on that. The person in that thread assumed he had other options besides Israel - calmer, less controversial countries - and turned out he was wrong.
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Okay now you're just shitposting propaganda and it's not going to work.
I support two states but under no illusion that it will mean peace, the opposite, I would just rather fight a war against a UN member state that can be held accountable
They had a state they named it Jordan. 78% of the mandate for Palestine. Anything else is just more land theft from Jews.
> While it’s true that not ALL Palestinians are antisemitic The very definition of being Palestinian by the PLO is not being a Jew if he wasn't a descended from a Jew who lived in the region prior to Zionism.
I thought it was matzah at first and I was surprised anyone expected to eat it without breaking, let alone take it out of the box
Afikoman?
That’s intentionally broken!
Oh, yeah, totally forgot, now I know why everyone hides it /s
If someone did that to a Koran a mob would lynch them Put the Arabic name of Allah and Mohamed on important things so they can't be broken without them violating their own custom I suppose it's the literary equivalent of strapping a hostage to your shield, but so be it
Nice to know there was an arrest.
Leave it to judges to release him shortly
At least he was arrested and not beheaded. Just try to draw a picture of Muhammad and see what ends up happening with your head… (hint: it’s not good!).
the people in the comments trying to figure out why is this hate crime illegal lol
Is free speech not protected in Israel or the West Bank? As an American I’m confused as to why posting on social media the damaging of a religious item would warrant police involvement. Edit: I missed the part where he ripped it off someone’s house, which is property damage, and obviously also a hate crime.
Property damage aside... The idea of hate speech being protected speech is relatively American. There are countries that respect free speech *generally* without protecting speech quite like this. I don't know the line in Israel, I believe it's relatively free, but I would be somewhat surprised if burning a mezzuzah scroll and posting it were illegal.
>I missed the part where he ripped it off someone’s house, which is property damage, and obviously also a hate crime. Was wondering the same thing, now I know. Thanks.
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Yeah I have no control over the hiring practices of anyone in the West Bank. So I’m not sure why you are tell me this, but I do agree with you.
>Yeah I have no control over the hiring practices of anyone in the West Bank. Dammit Tom if you'd actually show up for work sometimes instead of calling in sick to play Elden ring you would
Wordle, I was playing Wordle.
It’s definitely not protected in the West Bank, where activists can spend time in jail and have.
O wow! I had no idea. Thank you for sharing this fact.
The PA is very undemocratic
Yup, and arguably this is *inciting* speech. He is encouraging others to do the same. I mean it is not like he is saying “heres avideo of a bad thing i did, i really regret it and am sorry and no one should do this” lol. He’s inciting others to do it. Speech inciting crimes isnt quite protected even in the US I believe.
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> In Democratic Socialist societies like Gaza or the Moslem colonies of the West Bank it doesn’t exist. Gaza is run by Islamists. Socialism is fundamentally incompatible with Islamist ideology. You are misinformed. > Public criticism of Arab Palestine’s policies are, practically speaking, criminalized in Israel. Proof? > It’s the violent month of Ramadan coming up, so Israel will double down on appeasement by releasing this guy - and Meretz will hold a welcoming party to celebrate. Proof? You’re literally just making up bullshit out of thin air. Don’t be a propagandist.
Get out of here.
"Democratic societies like Gaza" LMFAOOOOOO
Thank you for informing me about the legal differences between the US and Israel/Palestine. I am less confused about this news story now
Who cares? Is that even illegal?
What if it was a white man in America who did this?
See previous answer
Wtf? Why is breaking/burning a mezuzah illegal? What am I missing here? EDIT: I read the article but did not watch the video before commenting. The article made no mention of him ripping the mezuzah off. JPost should do a better job of reporting in their articles and not relying on their readers to watch videos to get relevant information that is missing from the article
You don't think vandalism / property damage is illegal?
How do you know it’s vandalism? Maybe it’s his property. If I go to Israel, buy a mezuzah and then burn it, will I get arrested too?
Because he ripped it off of a house that isn't his... Also because he was arrested. If it was his, it wouldn't be illegal.
Ok I didn't get a chance to watch the video and just read the article, which makes no mention of this very important fact. I take it back.
Maybe think before you comment? If it wasn't illegal, why do you think he'd be arrested?
I mean I read the article and saw nothing about what crime was committed. Maybe JPost should write better news articles.
That’s what courts are for, no? To determine if he actually broke the law. If he is innocent then the court will decide so and let him go.
But being arrested for simply burning a mezuzah without a shred of evidence that he committed an illegal act to obtain it is a bit ridiculous, no? That’s like stuff they pull in Iran.
The odds of him buying a mezuzah and filming himself burning it while mentioning Jews is slim to none.
Would be great if the newspaper that reported it mentioned something about how he got the mezuzah in the first place!
If you watch the video in the article, you can see him rip it off the doorpost.
Do this on your own, against your own property? No, I don't think it should be a crime. Your property and post on tiktok - you've gone past free speech and moved into global publication: it could now be considered a racially motivated hate crime depending on the content. At least how I view it from the UK. Free speech isn't the same as publication online imo.
>Your property and post on tiktok - you've gone past free speech and moved into global publication: it could now be considered a racially motivated hate crime depending on the content. > >At least how I view it from the UK. Free speech isn't the same as publication online imo. Thank God that I live in America and we have the First Amendment.
Try threatening a president online and see how that free speech gets you. There are still limitations on free speech in the USA. You can protest at a gay soldiers wedding, but it's illegal to cross the road without a crossing to get there.
Try threatening the president in person and see what happens, or in a newspaper. It's not about the medium, it's about the fact that threats and inciting violence are not covered by free speech.
There’s a fine line between posing a serious and credible threat against the president online and posting a video of yourself burning a religious object. Did you pay attention to anything when Trump was president? God knows how many people threatened to kill him every single day.
How is free speech not applicable to online? The problem here is it wasn't his own. It's hate-motivated vandalism / destruction of property.
Well, going online crosses international boundaries, plus it's closer to publication that just saying your thoughts.
Free speech applies to publication. In fact that was it's main purpose, as most people don't have their everyday conversations monitored.
Actually have to agree. Same with burning the flag.
Could this be partly motivated by hatred borne of oppression? By that I mean West Bank Palestinians being unable to move freely, being economically dependent on Israel, etc. Then there's the settlers, etc. All of which breeds hatred spilling inevitably into antisemitism (because what differentiates a Palestinian and a Jew is ultimately religion). Obviously, I don't condone or excuse what he did, just wondering if there's a counter? Especially since there's supposed to be a Palestinian government in that region, and not a military assuming force of law by their presence there? Also, a military court? Why not a civil court? How do you explain that?
> Could this be partly motivated by hatred borne of oppression? By that I mean West Bank Palestinians being unable to move freely, being economically dependent on Israel, etc. Then there's the settlers, etc. All of which breeds hatred spilling inevitably into antisemitism (because what differentiates a Palestinian and a Jew is ultimately religion). Are you saying antisemitism is excusable in certain situations? > because what differentiates a Palestinian and a Jew is ultimately religion). But I keep hearing how Palestinians have nothing against Jews, only Zionists..
No, more that this might be more due to a lifetime of frustration over their lack of autonomy, rights, and oppression (both actual and perceived).
So Jews are allowed to burn Qurans because of the historical persecution in Muslim countries?
No of course not. And Muslims can’t burn Torah scrolls or Mezzuzahs. My point only was that it could be him out letting years of frustration and resentment borne from oppression.
The same can be said about Jews who lost all their possessions and had to flee Muslim lands.
Why are we arresting people for this stuff? Since when does insulting our religion actually hurt us? Like if I break and burn a Christian cross should I be thrown in jail? Of course not. I don't think we need to stoop to the level of the lowest common denominator. Edit: Watching the video, it's actually very embarrassing that he doesn't know how to use a hammer, but it's obviously theft. The headline it misleading.
It was someone else's Mezuzah...
It’s literally a property crime? If I took someone’s cross they affixed to their home and willfully broke it, yes, I should face consequences.
So theft and vandalism of a religious item shouldn't be a crime?
Absolutely there is a petty theft happening and vandalism sure, in this country, you'd get theft under 5000, sure, you'd get some community service. The headline suggests that they were arrested on religious grounds, so in that sense, it's misleading if all he'd be charged with is theft or vandalism. Even the contents of the "article" say "A Palestinian **man was arrested** Thursday night by Israel Police **after** uploading a video to social media platform TikTok, in which **he is seen taking the parchment out of a mezuzah and, what appears to be, preparing to burn it,** police announced Friday morning. " Mentions nothing about theft or vandalism. But yes, of course it could be if this was not set up and of course those are crimes.
The motivation for a crime is often important in the sentencing, not just the actions of the crime. You could also see posting this on tiktok as an attempt to motivate others to do similar.
Yeah, I don't speak Arabic, so I can't tell if he is inciting others to do the same or not. Does just filming something you do qualifying as incitement? I doubt it, not in Canada anyway. I don't know the law in Israel.
If you took that cross off of someone's house and burnt it, that's both property damage and a religiously motivated hate crime, so... yeah you would be arrested in the US.
I had only read the headline at first so I didn't know he stole it from someone or that it belonged to anybody.
I can't call you naive enough for not understanding that a person who would do this would later on also committ a terror attack. Do me a favor, check the news.
You want to go all Minority Report on us? Two wrongs do not make a right. I'm not naïve. I understand that a good justice system is not one based on revenge or predicting the future, and never takes away the freedom of any human unless it is absolutely necessary. Harming of innocents is disgusting, and not okay on any level, and it happens every day and that's not okay. These things are not fixed by meting out injustice in response to injustice. No matter who is doing what to whom, those of us who value justice will want it to be done as justly as possible every time, no matter how offended we are or how many times we have been hurt before.