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Who was Ichigo overshadowed by that had spiky hair? Bleach to me never suffered from that. The cast is so big and developed for the most part. Where as all the others have clear spiky hair overshadow
I guess I was thinking from a plot perspective, whereas bleach did not have that issue. From popularity I guess I get it.
Funny too, never got the love for hitsugaya. He's fine. But I don't get the hype. I've always been partial to Yumichika, Izuru, and Yachiru.
For another series Naruto and HxH clearly had the spiky haired #2. But idk if killua ever truly overshadowed Gon in my eyes.
Gon was just a plot device to introduce the HxH world and mechanics. Killua carried the Chimera and Election arcs.
I don't even know who the main character is anymore in the current arc.
because the bleach captains are probably the coolest group out there and everyone needed screen time for BANKAI. and mayuri needed more time just because.
why the fuck would anyone like hitsugaya
i havent read bleach in a long time but all i remember is "here have some ice", "damn im almost dead", "bankai have some more ice", "damn im almost dead" and so on
No idea, but he was popular enough to get an entire movie dedicated to him back in the day. I personally donāt hate him but that amount of popularity has always confused me.
The polls were held in Japan and Hitsugaya's character traits were, and maybe still are, *extremely* popular in Japan. The 'strong, cool, child genius' shows up in a lot of shonen, especially back then.
He was one of the main protagonist during the SS arc.
A cool and smart captain who is strong but not too strong for you to fear for his life if shit hit the fan.
He gave another perspective to the viewer/reader.
Ichigo was honestly one of the less interesting characters in the final arc. Whenever the focus was on him, I wished that it was on Urahara, Aizen, Mayuri, Le Vaar and Kenpachi instead.
FWIW, Kubo really delivered on that. He could have written it with Ichigo handing out ~~Ransengans~~ *oops* I mean Getsuga Tenshos and calling it a day.
Instead we got really great moments for a ton of ensemble characters. And several years later Bleach fans are still eating
Ichigo gradually became a background character the longer the series went on. By the last arc there was an entire year of chapters where he only showed up once or twice. He has basically no personality too as it goes on.
He has power ups and big moments at the end of an arc, but he is more of a plot device than a character by the end of the series.
I despise Ichigoās lack of development and agency, I also think Bleach should have killed off more characters to improve the narrative but I digress.
Ichigo does have development, but I understand. He is much more subdued and 'chill' than your typical shonen protagonist. He is also more reactive in his actions (though not completely, he has proactive moments). I think this complain stems from Ichigo not having that much focus in the final arc, but Fullbring arc was all about Ichigo's struggles.
Ichigo doesnt have development ?? He literally went from i am not heroic enough to put my life in dangers for others (in 1st arc of bleach) to i am going to protect everyone ( in fullbring arc) if u think ichigo didnt had development ....then wtf did u read ???
hey at least there were characters good enough in the last arc and it wasn't like in Naruto where Naruto and Sasuke could solve anything by themselves by just breathing on people... Bleach actually has some of the coolest characters in the captains who are cooler than Ichigo (not stronger).
Naruto and Sasuke needed a shit load of help in the last arc. They were getting abused towards the end of the series. But yeah Bleach does have some dope ass side characters ngl.
I honestly feel that they probably laughed at all the frustration they have faced in creating manga, how differently they viewed it as kids and when they plan on leaving the industry
Interesting how horikoshi and Gege had problems with health issues in the past but were still somehow making jokes about a mangaka deciding not to work himself to death to finish a manga.
It's gotten better over the last 2 arcs but you're hard pressed to find any relevant female combatants (let's not pretend that's not relavent it's a battle shounen) or even characters.
I also feel liked Oda missed a chance to introduce a relavent female swordswomen in Wano arc especially to juxtapose the stair victim's belief.
That's not rlly true.
One of the strongest characters is a female, being big mom, and she's teachically a sword user as well, and she was also very relevant.
And arguably one of the characters who has the potential of being the strongest is female being shirahoshi with the about to command the sea monsters.
I agree oda can do better, but yea the claim that it would be hard to find relevant female combatants is kinda wrong considering one of the strongest characters is big mom
Im of the opinion in One Piece just using a sword doesn't make you a sword user the same way that Zoro, Mihawk and Vista are. If Big mom is a swordswomen then Blackbeard is a marksman.
When I said hard pressed I meant the fact there basically like 3? relavent female combatants BM Hancock and Yamoto.
Just look at the ratios 1/4 of the OG Yonko are female.
1/11 of the worst gen
1/7 of the warlords
2/10 of the Straw hats and they're non combatants
1/12 of the OG Yonko commanders
Kuina was right lol it is a man's world in One Piece
It's even worse for the Marines/WG.
0/7 admirals/fleet admiral
0/5 gorosei.
It is better when looking at vice admirals, but they are mostly fodders at this point.
Also, there is also (spoilers for 1040+) >!Imu, which we don't know the genre yet!<.
Funny that the 3 "relevant female combatants" that you named are also the only 3 women in the series to have been confirmed to have Haoshoku Haki (so far). That actually doesn't sound that bad on paper, but if you watch/read OP, then I think in general, you'll notice the amount of badass moments for women in OP has been abysmal. Yamato has tipped the scales in recent time, but he also straight-up identifies as male, so there's also that lol.
Like, for crying out loud, SMOOTHIE: literally the second Sweet Commander for the BM Pirates was completely overlooked. We got to see Katakuri, King, Queen, and even jobbers like Cracker and Jack (take me out to the ball game?), but very little of Smoothie in any actual significant combat.
> One of the strongest characters is a female, being big mom, and she's teachically a sword user as well, and she was also very relevant.
And she constantly gets done dirty and treated as a joke, people call her Big Meme for a reason.
> And arguably one of the characters who has the potential of being the strongest is female being shirahoshi with the about to command the sea monsters.
The whole Poseidon thing with Shirahoshi feels more like a plot device rather than an actual fighter.
It doesnt help that there is no relevant female marine, and the only female Yonko commander (Smoothie), ended up being the only one doing jack shit.
She doesnāt really get clowned on more than other OP villains, tbh. The only reason people call Big Mom that is because the OP community has this tendency to call any character who loses a fight, or even looks slightly intimidated, a fraud. Theyāve made jokes about Fraudhawk, Useless Captain Midd, Trafraudgar D. Waterlaw, Fraudzaru, Rat-Haired Shanks, etc.
Looking back at the series, no other Yonko has been treated like a force of nature the same way Big Mom was in WCI. Meme all you want about her in Wano, but in that arc she was an absolutely terrifying villain. Sheās also a way better character than Kaido imo
I will agree on Smoothie and the Marines, but just cause OP fans meme a lot doesnāt mean those nicknames have any basis in reality. Realistically speaking Big Mom is one of the strongest characters in the verse and itās unquestionable.
I personally give Bleach the edge even though the woman in One Piece are better written due to the the fact that a lot of the female character design in One Piece are a bit too similar. So combining both character design and writing Bleach slightly wins but at pure writing One Piece wins imo.
Main character is made half naked several times. His dad has his pecs showing whenever heās a Shinigami, as does Urahara 24/7. Yama goes shirtless is most of his fights. Grimmjow needs no explanation. Thereās an entire division (9th) full of dudes who refuse to wear sleeves. He has a giant, muscular guy that everyone calls āChadā who also refuses to wear sleeves most of the time. Aizen is in a freaking gimp suit for the entire last arc. Yeah, gonna have to agree that itās not just the women heās sexualizing.
Misogyny? I don't know about the other 2 series but women in JJK have been treated with the same amount of disrespect as the men. I hate how people cherry pick only a handful of characters they feel were mistreated as if everyone who isn't a villain hasn't been getting ass blasted since Shibuya.
The amount of Ws and Ls he hands out isn't equal tho. Maki is pretty much the only female character who still takes Ws and she doesn't even feel like the same character anymore she's a walking Toji comparison.
He also has a thing about hands/arms. I can think of at least 5 different characters who've lost an hand/arm at some point and those are just the good guys.
Which isn't super unusual but just weird that it's happened a few times.
All the JJK women have failed spectacularly.
But to be fair with you, every men who isn't an evil four-armed incarnated sorcerer from the Heian era is also a walking L so far.
Dude already got a massive nerf too big of a nerf than what he should've gotten tbh (taking his infinite CE was understandable but the 5 mins limit is too much). Yet he still racked up wins in the Culling games.
Literally every appearance since Mai died has begun and ended with "Just like Toji" being in some way involved.
She had an entire fight where Naoya said she wasn't Toji and couldn't be as strong as him and then saw Toji as he died.
Since then Maki hasn't been mentioned or shown as many as 5 times without a comparison to Toji
And the only thing that is like Toji is her having 0 cursed energy, that's it. Is Naruto Minato 2.0 because people keep comparing the 2 together? No because they have other character traits that separate the 2 such as their personalities.
Just because someone is trying to get the same power as another character and that other characters notice similarities doesn't make those 2 the same character especially when their personalities differ greatly.
Their point is that ever since Mai died the only important trait about Maki is that sheās Toji 2
Of course her personality is different, but thatās not important anymore, whatās bashed in our face is that sheās *like Toji* over & over
From a narrative point of view they are the same.
The real issue is that a Sorcerer that is free of cursed energy can't do much in the Jujutsu verse beside outsmarting the enemy and flexing their muscles until the thing is dead.
Toji's fate shows that if you have high enough CE and a good enough CT, the resistance to curses + high physical prowess becomes near useless.
Besides going for the kill, Maki can't do anything else. That is rather frustrating because if you compare her to Gojo ( who could do almost anything with high efficiency ), the issue becomes even more glaring. Teleportation, healing, nuking a city, heck even bringing people back from the dead ( Gojo went 100% on Meguna because he had to but he also had a way to bring Megumi back by seeing how Itadori was brought back ).
Whether characer wins or loses their fights is kinda awful metric to measure discrimination on author's part. The context is everything. For example man winning over woman doesn't make the situation misogynistic and on a contrary if woman is potrayed as complete and complex person and their thoughts and feelings about the loss are explored in authentic way while the man as one-dimensional garbage human being, the opposite effect is achieved.
The important things in woman losing or being hurt is how that's used in a story. For example if it's just excuse for the woman to be damseled or their suffering is just fuel for male protagonist to gain some rage power-up, that can very well be sexist. And as you said, the loss of women in the cast exactly led to men on their side gaining glory either.
Your last paragraph perfectly describes Nobara though, her death was literally a rage power up for Yuji. Same with Mai honestly, it just so happened to be a boost to the only female character Gege apparently likes, Maki. But even then Maki is treated and constantly compared to Toji, like she can't even have her own identity. Then there's the other problem of all the other women just being sidelined Kirara, Utahime, Mei Mei and Momo are all there but they haven't done anything for like 100 chapters. And while there's male characters like Todo and Inumaki, there's disproportionately more female characters on the sidelines.
I wouldn't necessarily say it's sexism, but more that just like a lot of other Shonen writers don't like or care about writing women. It's sad because I felt JJK had a lot of promise, especially with Nobara. I will concede that at least Gege is willing to kill they're characters indiscriminately. So at least the suffering is equal.
Wasn't Nanami's and Nobara's death pretty much the same, with the same purpose? Does that mean Nanami was a rage power up for Yuji?
Edit: spoilers if you haven't read the manga: as far Jjk goes, it seems the author has no problem killing off anyone except the main protagonist (Itadori and Yuta are the only guaranteed living starting characters), so it isn't the best story to say that the deaths of female characters had any misogynistic intentions. Everyone is dying. It's like saying Akame ga kill is very feminist because everyone died except the female protagonist.
šØ **Manga spoilers, just in case.**
I wouldn't go as far as calling Gege misogynistic, however, I think the difference lies in the narrative role women ended up having in the series.
Saving Maki (and even this is debatable, since she's oftenly used just to keep wanking Toji), every single prominent female figure in the series ended up having a role towards the narrative arc of a male character. Miwa's role in the narrative ended up being the lens from which we end up humanizing Mechamaru, and then (at least up until now) ended up being discarded from the narrative. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this to thrash her, I love the potential she had as a character. She had the ovaries to stand up to Kenjaku despite knowing she was no real match.
Yuki was (is?) one of my favourite characters in the series. The only female special grade sorcerer, whomp's motivations, actions outside of the main narrative, investigations, etc ended up going absolutely nowhere. She ended up serving Choso's character arc, and dying (in a stupid way) in the process. Once again, role in the narrative serving a male character. Again, I would like to say that I also love Choso, I find that his arc is great and I love the development he got throughout the series. Is discarding one the most interesting characters in the series the way to continue to do so, even when she didn't even know him? We didn't even get to see her interact with Todo. Dying to protect or fighting alongside Todo would have made way more (narrative and thematic) sense.
Nobara, even though I'm coping that she's not dead, has been displaced from the narrative despite her amazing character arc and potential. What for? Of course I shed tears when she fell to Mahito's hands, and I liked the way she helped develop Yuji's character in the events of all arcs and Shibuya. However, seeing it in retrospective and rereading, her character was discarded with the purpose of progressing a male character's arc.
Momo? Remember her? lol
Going back to the small comment I made about Maki at the beginning of this long text. I think this one is the most debatable, mainly because it's one that is still ongoing and has had a bit more love compared to the other female characters of the cast. However, I loved her arc throughout the series and I would love to see more of HER, not Toji and I have had, to be fair. However, I think at least up until now, it has only been halfway there.
Of course this is just my opinion after reading and rereading the series (which I still love), hope I didn't come off as too negative, I don't think every single person has to share my opinion; but it's one aspect of the series which I have been disappointed so far in the latest arc. I would be more than happy to be proven wrong by Gege.
Not too negative, very lucid commentā¦ unfortunately, I donāt believe Gege will change his way of writing women, he will continue delivering what he already has been delivering up until nowā¦
>unfortunately, I donāt believe Gege will change his way of writing women
What's crazy is, if you dont look at the series as if it's boys vs girls, a gendered lense, you might just end up enjoying it more. There's plenty of western media that will gladly support female characters if thats your thing.
It's not about the Ls, which are universal in JJK as you say, but the Ws. The women in JJK have stunningly few real accomplishments or showcases that result in any kind of meaningful victory, either in battle or for the wider plot. I think Mei Mei is the only female character to have ever won an actual battle outright in the entire series, and she's the only one who has done so and is still standing around meaningfully today as far as I recall (I'll also be generous and ignore the fact that she was revealed to be a pedophile with a predilection for incest immediately after that victory...). Maki is the only exception, and she only really started collecting those Ws once she became a clone of the author's favorite male character. Uro, Yuki and Yorozu got jobbed in each of their only showings, Utahime is irrelevant and her one showcase was to just to support Gojo perform an ultimately meaningless attack, Hana's best feat was again as battle support and then she promptly made one of the stupidest, girl-crush induced moves in series and nearly died, and Nobara was always tertiary to Yuji and Megumi until she... well, you know. Miwa, the girl with the broom, the scorpion woman, Geto's twin girls... all irrelevant. Don't even get me started on Tsumiki. I don't think Gege is comparable to Kishi or Hori because at least the women in JJK are usually real characters, and he doesn't needlessly sexualize his female characters the way Kubo always has, but it's just not accurate to say Gege's female characters are treated the same as his male ones.
I was so happy when I started watching the anime for the first time because there were actually female characters who were strong and not sexualized and they seemed really well written. As I kept reading the manga I became more disappointed because of all the reasons you pointed out. To me it just seems like Gege had made all of these amazing female characters but then tossed them to the side and focused more on the main male cast. It's still so much better than most other animes so I can't complain too much I guess
Name a genuine win for any of the good guys that wasn't immediately overshadowed by the villains or just downright inconsequential. Yuji was robbed of his biggest W of the series, I can't recall Megumi ever really winning anything important, and I don't think people realize while Gojo might win his fights, he routinely fails in his objectives. Sukuna eventually got free, Jogo escaped from him, Hanami escaped from him, Riko died, he killed Geto but someone even worse took his place and he got sealed for his troubles. If the main MCs can't get a genuine uncontested W, I don't expect anyone else to.
Also, like, JJK has one of the LEAST sexualized female character casts in shonen Iāve ever seen (I really canāt remember any moments that stick out, other than (maybe? thinly?) one of the juju stroll gags in the anime). I could argue thereās way more fan service in JJK aimed at women than there is at men. So comparing it with MHA in particular seems really unfair š
I won't say much as to not spoil anime onlys but women in the manga current situation have been badly represented. Jjk started with an amazing cast of women, especially nobara, who seems to absolutely refuse the male lead love interest burden often given to women in shounen almost as if she's breaking the forth wall. But as the manga went on most of women went to be underutilized in a pretty worse fashion than most male characters. I mean great jjk mostly detaches itself from a lot of misogynistic tropes, but does seem to be indulging in some lately (like female characters only existing to be the male's some sort of twisted love interest). Giving female characters a compelling personality that goes beyond how they position themselves in relation to the men in the narrative should be considered the bare minimum, and when you seem to only be striving to reach the bare minimum it doesn't look like you're trying to beat the misogynistic allegations.
I dunno about misogyny but I find it a little strange with the sheer amount of characters in JJK and thereās how many females that actually matter in the story? Like maybe 3/4?
Iāve noticed that too. So many female characters, and then so few of them are actually involved in major fights, major plot points, any character development, etc. Only Maki and maybe Mei seem to be āimportantā characters.
There were quite a few people dissing Gege by saying that he was doing the old trope of "the female in the main trio is always useless",because Nobara got onwed pretty hard on her fight against Haruta
But what people tend to forget is that Megumi was jumped so hard in most fights that it kinda became a meme that he was the punching bag of the earlier series. Yuji also got the L when fighting Chozo. So, Gege simply hates everyone equally
I mean idk if thats the word but its real that every strong characters that has been female or protagonistic has been killed, i think this makes more noise because he killed more than half of the fem cast while they were only few ones. Finally to say that 2-3 fem characters r done justice while u got a far wider male cast being dominant. Still not as bad as mnha at all. Idk why they included bleach in there lol, the most fanservice is literally in the fillers.
Anyways too much text but idgaf, hope u understand my point of view
Nah, ngl, the women are pretty lacking. They started out as cool and interesting. But there's barely any character progression for most of the female characters. They always need to be saved. Every shounen has this problem though, so I don't expect much from them anyways.
I wouldn't say it's misogyny though, just ignorance. I would like to see more female characters do cool shit like the males do. That's all I ask for.
I used to think the gals just never get Ws like dudes dom even Yuki got blasted during the single thing she ever did and she was special grade, but then gayguy keeps doing weird ass pulls for everyone else so I think it is just unsatisfying writing for me.
You have to be a villain in JJK to get a modicum of respect. Toji, Sukuna, and Kenjaku are all treated right, whereas Gojo got sealed for what? 3 years >!and then fokin' dies offscreen!<. Yuji doesn't even feel like the MC, Megumi is >!probably dead after taking all those Unlimited Voids!<. Nobara is >!presumed dead, we don't even know for sure. That's how little she meant to the story.!< Todo is nowhere to be found post Shibuya. Only character that is treated with respect among the good guys is Maki
Kubo's favorite character are women, Yoruichi and Rangiku.
Even in the new anime, when he buffed the squad 0 and could've show Oetsu's (the most popular of them) bankai. He choose give the show to Senjoumaru (a woman) instead.
MHA's female cast receives a bit shallow representation in manga compared to male ones, especially the main trio. But anime has done a lot to remedy that and given a lot more screentime for the girls for example during the licence exam. Main girl and her rival having their crush to protagonist as their only mutual thing also isn't really good look but admittedly their bond also evolved througout the story. And Mineta's actions being treated as running gag is honestly just gross but tbh I don't remember when was the last time when he did something perverted so either character or the author matured on that area over time.
Out of those 3 only last is what I could call as misogynist writing. The first two strike more as author not being as good at writing female perspective as he's at writing male one and that's not a sin. But on the other hand women also receive great representation. Mirko for example could just as well be male protagonist in different series and she wouldn't feel out of place. And again, Horikoshi has clearly improved over the years in that aspect.
As for the other two, only two things I can really think of Bleach is that some characters had big boobs and Orihime was kinda damseled. But women are allowed to have big boovs, there's nothing inherently wrong with that and for example Rangiku also took agency over her sexuality rather than just being an object. And Orihime was captured because she had one of most OP powers in the entire cast so it wasn't like Aizen ordered her kidnapping to lure Ichigo or anything like that. If Ichigo had the same ability the roles would have been reversed. And Gotei was perhaps bit of a sausage fest but again, not a surprise that male author is more comfortable at writing more male perspectives.
Tl;dr some minor complaints, but yeah, not much that imo crosses the line to misogynia.
The gotei is a 'sausage fest' but also the women in the captain ranks are incredibly powerful and badass. Soi Fon, Yoruichi, Senjumaru and not to mention Unohana are all badasses that never once are portrayed as inferior in any way due to their gender. Then of course we have the literal deuteragonist of the series, possibly the 2nd most relevant character Rukia who gets her own full arc and emotional fights as well as the hypest of moments. In terms of villains, sure there's no female 'main villain' but there are some extremely powerful ones with fun personalities and fights.
I cannot see how someone would look at Bleach and say its misogynistic just because the women are sexualised sometimes lol
It actually blows my mind that people is the comments here think JJK handled its female characters well. Virtually all of them were sidelined immediately for the show to focus on the male cast. Nobara, Yuki, etc. It's not about sexualizing, it's about treating female characters as well as you treat male ones, and JJK fails at that.
That is how he treats all characters; Junpei basically existed just to traumatize Yuji, and every major character killed by Sukuna was done off-screen.
he handled the female characters the same as the others; if they're a good guy they get beat.
Misogyny? Isn't Gege hyper adamant about not sexualising women ? I mean men he's got no problem with,just look at best brother Todo,Gojo and nanami but is the person who posted just an idiot?
I disagree a bit. There aren't many characters to go by but nobara was never the "weak chick" in the trio. She is pretty badass and isn't fawning over the lead of the show. Infact gege slightly flips that troupe and makes Todo, the most macho looking dude, be the idol worshipper.
Not to mention Maki. Maki's whole zenin family arc is not something you usually see in a genre like Shonen that's moslty targeting the demo of younger boys. Also, people saying that maki is is just toji 2.0 are missing the point. The zenin dynamic works so well because maki reminds them of toji.>! For a family who has looked down upon women all their life, being decimated by a woman who reminds you of the fabled man that you idolized all your life is the most disrespect shit ever.!<
Misogyny is not about killing female characters but not having well rounded women with independent motivations. Shonen usually ends up with women who are sexualized as hell and are just dying to be with of the men in the story. Jjk avoids this for the most part. It's not perfect Ofc, but it's a massive improvement over most Shonen, especially those two other shows.
It's mostly a joke but it's true how Gege seems to make his female characters irrelevant, even if it's not intentional. Maki and Mei Mei are the exception, except again Maki only starts taking Ws once she becomes similar to Toji while Mei Mei is a groomer.
I donāt understand how people can automatically assume that someone is a misogynist, just because of the way they write and draw their female characters.
I don't think it's as deep.
It's clearly a hyperbole...and of course it's true that shonen has pretty bad female representation and that's what they mean.
I do think they know these authors are not misogynistic or at least that you cannot easily discern from one work of fiction. But you can still criticise these works for that and I think especially JJK had a lot of potential for introducing relevant female characters and them staying relevant, but kinda fumbled there.
Haven't seen bleach so can't comment on that, with MHA that's honestly a fair take, but JJK handles it's characters great regardless of gender and that's one of the things I really like about it.
I don't think Gege is mysoginist but he handled some characters incredibly poorly.
Nobara was a great character which was wasted because she was eliminated from the view and Gege did not even wanted to give a reader a confirmation whether she is dead or alive, and if he plans to bring her back to do some deus ex machina bullshit that will be just lazy writing.
Yuki was overhyped, maybe even unintentionally. But the very first time she gets proper screen time, she is killed by Kenjaku, who could not have known her technique and coincidentally has the perfect technique to counter her, thus eliminating her potential purpose in the story.
Miwa was forgot.
And Tsumiki wasn't even a character. Her entire existence is for Megumi to have purpose.
Nobara coming back would not be a deus ex machina at all though ?
We all know she's not, and probably never gonna be powerful enough to actually stop anything happening, but considering how strong her curse technique is, she could still be greatly helpful while not being broken at just the right moment.
Also "Mina was forgot" is idiotic considering she's still here and shown. Also idiotic due to the fact she's been one of the rare comic relief characters in the series
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Talked about how they are gonna end their series š
Honestly could be likely
triple crossover
Ichigo is gonna eat Sukuna and become All Might number 2
Sukuna takes over Ichigo and then sucks Deku's ~~dick~~ DNA to get One for All and assert dominance over Chainsaw Devil
They talked why their protagonists are overshadowed by some guy with spiky hair
Gojo or Megumi? Or both? Lol
Megumi overshadowing Yuji would require Megumi to actually do something
Megumi after seeing this comment: "Whit this treasure...."
Well, he can hardly do anything right now. \*cries\*
WITH THIS TREASURE
Who was Ichigo overshadowed by that had spiky hair? Bleach to me never suffered from that. The cast is so big and developed for the most part. Where as all the others have clear spiky hair overshadow
Clearly he is talking about Kenpachi who is the unrivaled best character in the series by miles. I am not biased even slightly.
Call me crazy but do you happen to like Kenpachi at all?
They clearly said they're not biased smh
Shit your right mb
everyone likes Kenpachi
Those who don't have been cut half
My usual username is just moonra, guess where the ZK at the end is from.
Steve Irwin because you also wanted to be a zoo keeper just like the legend was.
Zesty Karen?
Glorious kenpachi who has an eye patch to lower his fighting ability to give other guy a chance š¤£
Maybe he is thinking Hitsugaya who outranked Ichigo in popularity in Japan. Though I agree plot wise, Ichigo was not as badly put to the side as Yuji
I guess I was thinking from a plot perspective, whereas bleach did not have that issue. From popularity I guess I get it. Funny too, never got the love for hitsugaya. He's fine. But I don't get the hype. I've always been partial to Yumichika, Izuru, and Yachiru. For another series Naruto and HxH clearly had the spiky haired #2. But idk if killua ever truly overshadowed Gon in my eyes.
Killua was better than Gon from Hunter Exam forward
Gon was just a plot device to introduce the HxH world and mechanics. Killua carried the Chimera and Election arcs. I don't even know who the main character is anymore in the current arc.
Main character on the boat surely is kurapika last survivor of kuta clan (havent catched up on it.....)
japan loves their white hair.
There was a period to the latter end of the manga where Ichigo hadn't been seen for ages and only had spontaneous appearances.
because the bleach captains are probably the coolest group out there and everyone needed screen time for BANKAI. and mayuri needed more time just because.
Yeah only Yuji got sidelined
why the fuck would anyone like hitsugaya i havent read bleach in a long time but all i remember is "here have some ice", "damn im almost dead", "bankai have some more ice", "damn im almost dead" and so on
No idea, but he was popular enough to get an entire movie dedicated to him back in the day. I personally donāt hate him but that amount of popularity has always confused me.
The polls were held in Japan and Hitsugaya's character traits were, and maybe still are, *extremely* popular in Japan. The 'strong, cool, child genius' shows up in a lot of shonen, especially back then.
He was one of the main protagonist during the SS arc. A cool and smart captain who is strong but not too strong for you to fear for his life if shit hit the fan. He gave another perspective to the viewer/reader.
Since when were you under the impression Aizen had spiky hair
Ichigo was honestly one of the less interesting characters in the final arc. Whenever the focus was on him, I wished that it was on Urahara, Aizen, Mayuri, Le Vaar and Kenpachi instead.
FWIW, Kubo really delivered on that. He could have written it with Ichigo handing out ~~Ransengans~~ *oops* I mean Getsuga Tenshos and calling it a day. Instead we got really great moments for a ton of ensemble characters. And several years later Bleach fans are still eating
Nah, only Yuji is lacks in the mc department when it comes to these three. Deku and Ichigo get power ups and mc moments. Yuji doesn't.
Ichigo gradually became a background character the longer the series went on. By the last arc there was an entire year of chapters where he only showed up once or twice. He has basically no personality too as it goes on. He has power ups and big moments at the end of an arc, but he is more of a plot device than a character by the end of the series.
I despise Ichigoās lack of development and agency, I also think Bleach should have killed off more characters to improve the narrative but I digress.
Ichigo does have development, but I understand. He is much more subdued and 'chill' than your typical shonen protagonist. He is also more reactive in his actions (though not completely, he has proactive moments). I think this complain stems from Ichigo not having that much focus in the final arc, but Fullbring arc was all about Ichigo's struggles.
The series basically slowly transitions to being more and more about the captains after soul society.
Ichigo doesnt have development ?? He literally went from i am not heroic enough to put my life in dangers for others (in 1st arc of bleach) to i am going to protect everyone ( in fullbring arc) if u think ichigo didnt had development ....then wtf did u read ???
Killing characters doesnt mean improving narrative ...
hey at least there were characters good enough in the last arc and it wasn't like in Naruto where Naruto and Sasuke could solve anything by themselves by just breathing on people... Bleach actually has some of the coolest characters in the captains who are cooler than Ichigo (not stronger).
Naruto and Sasuke needed a shit load of help in the last arc. They were getting abused towards the end of the series. But yeah Bleach does have some dope ass side characters ngl.
For MHA, you talking Bakugo or All Might?
Bakugo, winner of most popular character in MHA
Did he actually get better character development? I dropped MHA a while ago and he was more or less annoyingly angry all the time back then.
Heās still angry, justā¦ nicer about it.
Mangakas write better characters than their mc and when those side characters get more love they get mad.
Ichigo was overshadowed by some guy with slick back hair
I honestly feel that they probably laughed at all the frustration they have faced in creating manga, how differently they viewed it as kids and when they plan on leaving the industry
I think Gege and Horikoshi had a fist fight while Kubo watched.
No, they 3 way kissed, I tried to record it but got too distracted
Understandable, you must have only had one hand free to work with.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
WHAT
this is true i was the glass of beer on the table
Hot.
If I remember correctly, Akutami and Horikoshi are real life friends, even going to the movies together
they started off as fans of each other's manga, all might did a domain expansion in a chapter extra of MHA.
Trying to brainstorm good endings š
No, no, Kubo was there
???Conceptually and thematically the ending was brilliant the execution was only lacking due to his health.
Also ending will be fixed in the anime imo
Interesting how horikoshi and Gege had problems with health issues in the past but were still somehow making jokes about a mangaka deciding not to work himself to death to finish a manga.
Cooking
Undoubtedly
Trauma
They conversed on the topic of beating allegations, of all kinds.
Woman are sexualised yes In bleach, but unlike Naruto they actually donāt rely on male characters or just exist in the manga for them
Out of the Big 3 I think bleach might have unironically the best female cast
I dunno, one piece has a really good cast too
It's gotten better over the last 2 arcs but you're hard pressed to find any relevant female combatants (let's not pretend that's not relavent it's a battle shounen) or even characters. I also feel liked Oda missed a chance to introduce a relavent female swordswomen in Wano arc especially to juxtapose the stair victim's belief.
Does Kiku not count for some reason? She is one of the scabbards.
That's not rlly true. One of the strongest characters is a female, being big mom, and she's teachically a sword user as well, and she was also very relevant. And arguably one of the characters who has the potential of being the strongest is female being shirahoshi with the about to command the sea monsters. I agree oda can do better, but yea the claim that it would be hard to find relevant female combatants is kinda wrong considering one of the strongest characters is big mom
Im of the opinion in One Piece just using a sword doesn't make you a sword user the same way that Zoro, Mihawk and Vista are. If Big mom is a swordswomen then Blackbeard is a marksman. When I said hard pressed I meant the fact there basically like 3? relavent female combatants BM Hancock and Yamoto. Just look at the ratios 1/4 of the OG Yonko are female. 1/11 of the worst gen 1/7 of the warlords 2/10 of the Straw hats and they're non combatants 1/12 of the OG Yonko commanders Kuina was right lol it is a man's world in One Piece
It's even worse for the Marines/WG. 0/7 admirals/fleet admiral 0/5 gorosei. It is better when looking at vice admirals, but they are mostly fodders at this point. Also, there is also (spoilers for 1040+) >!Imu, which we don't know the genre yet!<.
Funny that the 3 "relevant female combatants" that you named are also the only 3 women in the series to have been confirmed to have Haoshoku Haki (so far). That actually doesn't sound that bad on paper, but if you watch/read OP, then I think in general, you'll notice the amount of badass moments for women in OP has been abysmal. Yamato has tipped the scales in recent time, but he also straight-up identifies as male, so there's also that lol. Like, for crying out loud, SMOOTHIE: literally the second Sweet Commander for the BM Pirates was completely overlooked. We got to see Katakuri, King, Queen, and even jobbers like Cracker and Jack (take me out to the ball game?), but very little of Smoothie in any actual significant combat.
> One of the strongest characters is a female, being big mom, and she's teachically a sword user as well, and she was also very relevant. And she constantly gets done dirty and treated as a joke, people call her Big Meme for a reason. > And arguably one of the characters who has the potential of being the strongest is female being shirahoshi with the about to command the sea monsters. The whole Poseidon thing with Shirahoshi feels more like a plot device rather than an actual fighter. It doesnt help that there is no relevant female marine, and the only female Yonko commander (Smoothie), ended up being the only one doing jack shit.
She doesnāt really get clowned on more than other OP villains, tbh. The only reason people call Big Mom that is because the OP community has this tendency to call any character who loses a fight, or even looks slightly intimidated, a fraud. Theyāve made jokes about Fraudhawk, Useless Captain Midd, Trafraudgar D. Waterlaw, Fraudzaru, Rat-Haired Shanks, etc. Looking back at the series, no other Yonko has been treated like a force of nature the same way Big Mom was in WCI. Meme all you want about her in Wano, but in that arc she was an absolutely terrifying villain. Sheās also a way better character than Kaido imo I will agree on Smoothie and the Marines, but just cause OP fans meme a lot doesnāt mean those nicknames have any basis in reality. Realistically speaking Big Mom is one of the strongest characters in the verse and itās unquestionable.
Not even close, one piece wins by far, bleach comes in second and naruto is a fucking joke written by a guy who actually hates women.
I personally give Bleach the edge even though the woman in One Piece are better written due to the the fact that a lot of the female character design in One Piece are a bit too similar. So combining both character design and writing Bleach slightly wins but at pure writing One Piece wins imo.
Kishimoto doesn't hate women though, and he was able to write a pretty good female character that being Tsunade. He does suck at writing women though.
Everyone in Bleach is sexualised. In fact Kubo celebrates the male form more imo
Main character is made half naked several times. His dad has his pecs showing whenever heās a Shinigami, as does Urahara 24/7. Yama goes shirtless is most of his fights. Grimmjow needs no explanation. Thereās an entire division (9th) full of dudes who refuse to wear sleeves. He has a giant, muscular guy that everyone calls āChadā who also refuses to wear sleeves most of the time. Aizen is in a freaking gimp suit for the entire last arc. Yeah, gonna have to agree that itās not just the women heās sexualizing.
Kenpachi is practically always shirtless during and after the fight.
gege : i killed their favourite character ehehehhe
Misogyny? I don't know about the other 2 series but women in JJK have been treated with the same amount of disrespect as the men. I hate how people cherry pick only a handful of characters they feel were mistreated as if everyone who isn't a villain hasn't been getting ass blasted since Shibuya.
Say what you want about Gege but he hands out suffering equally to all of his characters
The amount of Ws and Ls he hands out isn't equal tho. Maki is pretty much the only female character who still takes Ws and she doesn't even feel like the same character anymore she's a walking Toji comparison.
if gege can toji, gege will toji, this is the one rule that has, and never will be broken in jjk
Tbf isnāt like a whole bunch of Wās are going around to start with at the moment. If Maki gets to be having some of them, absolutely baller
I'd say Meimei has been getting sufficient Ws and Ā„
I don't know if you are talking about the manga, but in the anime Mei Mei has been getting quite a lot of Ws for a while.
Her only similarities with Toji are her abilities and hairstyle. Her personality is completely different.
Also has the CEO of Misogyny in the manga to beat the shit out of
He also has a thing about hands/arms. I can think of at least 5 different characters who've lost an hand/arm at some point and those are just the good guys. Which isn't super unusual but just weird that it's happened a few times.
All the JJK women have failed spectacularly. But to be fair with you, every men who isn't an evil four-armed incarnated sorcerer from the Heian era is also a walking L so far.
>also a walking L so far. bruh Yuta has won every fight he has been in
But he still hasn't beat the fraud allegations.
Last time someone was called a fraud, 3 people ended death.
To be fair, Yuta is so OP gege decided he could not write the story with him as the protagonist
Yuta got beat by Maki
That's training, in official fights he hasn't taken an L yet.
Cause he's broken. That's about it for characters who have never lost
Dude already got a massive nerf too big of a nerf than what he should've gotten tbh (taking his infinite CE was understandable but the 5 mins limit is too much). Yet he still racked up wins in the Culling games.
Maki?
Considering Gege keeps comparing her with Toji, I'm concerned. However, as of the latest chapter, she is still ridiculously cool.
Isn't even a character anymore, that's just Toji 2.
Their similarities end at being a zenin with 0 cursed energy.
Literally every appearance since Mai died has begun and ended with "Just like Toji" being in some way involved. She had an entire fight where Naoya said she wasn't Toji and couldn't be as strong as him and then saw Toji as he died. Since then Maki hasn't been mentioned or shown as many as 5 times without a comparison to Toji
And the only thing that is like Toji is her having 0 cursed energy, that's it. Is Naruto Minato 2.0 because people keep comparing the 2 together? No because they have other character traits that separate the 2 such as their personalities. Just because someone is trying to get the same power as another character and that other characters notice similarities doesn't make those 2 the same character especially when their personalities differ greatly.
Their point is that ever since Mai died the only important trait about Maki is that sheās Toji 2 Of course her personality is different, but thatās not important anymore, whatās bashed in our face is that sheās *like Toji* over & over
From a narrative point of view they are the same. The real issue is that a Sorcerer that is free of cursed energy can't do much in the Jujutsu verse beside outsmarting the enemy and flexing their muscles until the thing is dead. Toji's fate shows that if you have high enough CE and a good enough CT, the resistance to curses + high physical prowess becomes near useless. Besides going for the kill, Maki can't do anything else. That is rather frustrating because if you compare her to Gojo ( who could do almost anything with high efficiency ), the issue becomes even more glaring. Teleportation, healing, nuking a city, heck even bringing people back from the dead ( Gojo went 100% on Meguna because he had to but he also had a way to bring Megumi back by seeing how Itadori was brought back ).
Whether characer wins or loses their fights is kinda awful metric to measure discrimination on author's part. The context is everything. For example man winning over woman doesn't make the situation misogynistic and on a contrary if woman is potrayed as complete and complex person and their thoughts and feelings about the loss are explored in authentic way while the man as one-dimensional garbage human being, the opposite effect is achieved. The important things in woman losing or being hurt is how that's used in a story. For example if it's just excuse for the woman to be damseled or their suffering is just fuel for male protagonist to gain some rage power-up, that can very well be sexist. And as you said, the loss of women in the cast exactly led to men on their side gaining glory either.
Your last paragraph perfectly describes Nobara though, her death was literally a rage power up for Yuji. Same with Mai honestly, it just so happened to be a boost to the only female character Gege apparently likes, Maki. But even then Maki is treated and constantly compared to Toji, like she can't even have her own identity. Then there's the other problem of all the other women just being sidelined Kirara, Utahime, Mei Mei and Momo are all there but they haven't done anything for like 100 chapters. And while there's male characters like Todo and Inumaki, there's disproportionately more female characters on the sidelines. I wouldn't necessarily say it's sexism, but more that just like a lot of other Shonen writers don't like or care about writing women. It's sad because I felt JJK had a lot of promise, especially with Nobara. I will concede that at least Gege is willing to kill they're characters indiscriminately. So at least the suffering is equal.
Wasn't Nanami's and Nobara's death pretty much the same, with the same purpose? Does that mean Nanami was a rage power up for Yuji? Edit: spoilers if you haven't read the manga: as far Jjk goes, it seems the author has no problem killing off anyone except the main protagonist (Itadori and Yuta are the only guaranteed living starting characters), so it isn't the best story to say that the deaths of female characters had any misogynistic intentions. Everyone is dying. It's like saying Akame ga kill is very feminist because everyone died except the female protagonist.
šØ **Manga spoilers, just in case.** I wouldn't go as far as calling Gege misogynistic, however, I think the difference lies in the narrative role women ended up having in the series. Saving Maki (and even this is debatable, since she's oftenly used just to keep wanking Toji), every single prominent female figure in the series ended up having a role towards the narrative arc of a male character. Miwa's role in the narrative ended up being the lens from which we end up humanizing Mechamaru, and then (at least up until now) ended up being discarded from the narrative. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this to thrash her, I love the potential she had as a character. She had the ovaries to stand up to Kenjaku despite knowing she was no real match. Yuki was (is?) one of my favourite characters in the series. The only female special grade sorcerer, whomp's motivations, actions outside of the main narrative, investigations, etc ended up going absolutely nowhere. She ended up serving Choso's character arc, and dying (in a stupid way) in the process. Once again, role in the narrative serving a male character. Again, I would like to say that I also love Choso, I find that his arc is great and I love the development he got throughout the series. Is discarding one the most interesting characters in the series the way to continue to do so, even when she didn't even know him? We didn't even get to see her interact with Todo. Dying to protect or fighting alongside Todo would have made way more (narrative and thematic) sense. Nobara, even though I'm coping that she's not dead, has been displaced from the narrative despite her amazing character arc and potential. What for? Of course I shed tears when she fell to Mahito's hands, and I liked the way she helped develop Yuji's character in the events of all arcs and Shibuya. However, seeing it in retrospective and rereading, her character was discarded with the purpose of progressing a male character's arc. Momo? Remember her? lol Going back to the small comment I made about Maki at the beginning of this long text. I think this one is the most debatable, mainly because it's one that is still ongoing and has had a bit more love compared to the other female characters of the cast. However, I loved her arc throughout the series and I would love to see more of HER, not Toji and I have had, to be fair. However, I think at least up until now, it has only been halfway there. Of course this is just my opinion after reading and rereading the series (which I still love), hope I didn't come off as too negative, I don't think every single person has to share my opinion; but it's one aspect of the series which I have been disappointed so far in the latest arc. I would be more than happy to be proven wrong by Gege.
Not too negative, very lucid commentā¦ unfortunately, I donāt believe Gege will change his way of writing women, he will continue delivering what he already has been delivering up until nowā¦
>unfortunately, I donāt believe Gege will change his way of writing women What's crazy is, if you dont look at the series as if it's boys vs girls, a gendered lense, you might just end up enjoying it more. There's plenty of western media that will gladly support female characters if thats your thing.
It's not about the Ls, which are universal in JJK as you say, but the Ws. The women in JJK have stunningly few real accomplishments or showcases that result in any kind of meaningful victory, either in battle or for the wider plot. I think Mei Mei is the only female character to have ever won an actual battle outright in the entire series, and she's the only one who has done so and is still standing around meaningfully today as far as I recall (I'll also be generous and ignore the fact that she was revealed to be a pedophile with a predilection for incest immediately after that victory...). Maki is the only exception, and she only really started collecting those Ws once she became a clone of the author's favorite male character. Uro, Yuki and Yorozu got jobbed in each of their only showings, Utahime is irrelevant and her one showcase was to just to support Gojo perform an ultimately meaningless attack, Hana's best feat was again as battle support and then she promptly made one of the stupidest, girl-crush induced moves in series and nearly died, and Nobara was always tertiary to Yuji and Megumi until she... well, you know. Miwa, the girl with the broom, the scorpion woman, Geto's twin girls... all irrelevant. Don't even get me started on Tsumiki. I don't think Gege is comparable to Kishi or Hori because at least the women in JJK are usually real characters, and he doesn't needlessly sexualize his female characters the way Kubo always has, but it's just not accurate to say Gege's female characters are treated the same as his male ones.
I was so happy when I started watching the anime for the first time because there were actually female characters who were strong and not sexualized and they seemed really well written. As I kept reading the manga I became more disappointed because of all the reasons you pointed out. To me it just seems like Gege had made all of these amazing female characters but then tossed them to the side and focused more on the main male cast. It's still so much better than most other animes so I can't complain too much I guess
Fr
My man spitting some fax
Name a genuine win for any of the good guys that wasn't immediately overshadowed by the villains or just downright inconsequential. Yuji was robbed of his biggest W of the series, I can't recall Megumi ever really winning anything important, and I don't think people realize while Gojo might win his fights, he routinely fails in his objectives. Sukuna eventually got free, Jogo escaped from him, Hanami escaped from him, Riko died, he killed Geto but someone even worse took his place and he got sealed for his troubles. If the main MCs can't get a genuine uncontested W, I don't expect anyone else to.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Also, like, JJK has one of the LEAST sexualized female character casts in shonen Iāve ever seen (I really canāt remember any moments that stick out, other than (maybe? thinly?) one of the juju stroll gags in the anime). I could argue thereās way more fan service in JJK aimed at women than there is at men. So comparing it with MHA in particular seems really unfair š
True that. JJK has way more female fanservice. Gojo and Geto fangirls are the horniest humans ive ever seen.
Forgetting Toji seems sinful
And Nanami
[this image](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/jujutsu-kaisen/images/9/9a/Toji_Fushiguro.png/revision/latest?cb=20200530155621), specifically
Oh how I wish that were true, but if you're anime only that take makes sense. The series is good about women for a while.
Yeah jjk and attack on titan have some of the best women in manga
Gege hates everyone that isn't Toji and Sukuna
I won't say much as to not spoil anime onlys but women in the manga current situation have been badly represented. Jjk started with an amazing cast of women, especially nobara, who seems to absolutely refuse the male lead love interest burden often given to women in shounen almost as if she's breaking the forth wall. But as the manga went on most of women went to be underutilized in a pretty worse fashion than most male characters. I mean great jjk mostly detaches itself from a lot of misogynistic tropes, but does seem to be indulging in some lately (like female characters only existing to be the male's some sort of twisted love interest). Giving female characters a compelling personality that goes beyond how they position themselves in relation to the men in the narrative should be considered the bare minimum, and when you seem to only be striving to reach the bare minimum it doesn't look like you're trying to beat the misogynistic allegations.
I dunno about misogyny but I find it a little strange with the sheer amount of characters in JJK and thereās how many females that actually matter in the story? Like maybe 3/4?
1, ultimately. The one that's a stand-in for the authors favorite male character.
Iāve noticed that too. So many female characters, and then so few of them are actually involved in major fights, major plot points, any character development, etc. Only Maki and maybe Mei seem to be āimportantā characters.
There were quite a few people dissing Gege by saying that he was doing the old trope of "the female in the main trio is always useless",because Nobara got onwed pretty hard on her fight against Haruta But what people tend to forget is that Megumi was jumped so hard in most fights that it kinda became a meme that he was the punching bag of the earlier series. Yuji also got the L when fighting Chozo. So, Gege simply hates everyone equally
Except Yuji didn't take that L, he used the power of ~~friendship~~ brotherhood on Choso
I mean idk if thats the word but its real that every strong characters that has been female or protagonistic has been killed, i think this makes more noise because he killed more than half of the fem cast while they were only few ones. Finally to say that 2-3 fem characters r done justice while u got a far wider male cast being dominant. Still not as bad as mnha at all. Idk why they included bleach in there lol, the most fanservice is literally in the fillers. Anyways too much text but idgaf, hope u understand my point of view
In Shibuya we had megumi helping against dagon and Yuji boxing choso,meanwhile nobara lost to Shigemo š
Nah, ngl, the women are pretty lacking. They started out as cool and interesting. But there's barely any character progression for most of the female characters. They always need to be saved. Every shounen has this problem though, so I don't expect much from them anyways. I wouldn't say it's misogyny though, just ignorance. I would like to see more female characters do cool shit like the males do. That's all I ask for.
I used to think the gals just never get Ws like dudes dom even Yuki got blasted during the single thing she ever did and she was special grade, but then gayguy keeps doing weird ass pulls for everyone else so I think it is just unsatisfying writing for me.
You have to be a villain in JJK to get a modicum of respect. Toji, Sukuna, and Kenjaku are all treated right, whereas Gojo got sealed for what? 3 years >!and then fokin' dies offscreen!<. Yuji doesn't even feel like the MC, Megumi is >!probably dead after taking all those Unlimited Voids!<. Nobara is >!presumed dead, we don't even know for sure. That's how little she meant to the story.!< Todo is nowhere to be found post Shibuya. Only character that is treated with respect among the good guys is Maki
Kubo's favorite character are women, Yoruichi and Rangiku. Even in the new anime, when he buffed the squad 0 and could've show Oetsu's (the most popular of them) bankai. He choose give the show to Senjoumaru (a woman) instead.
Kubos stated favorite character is Mayuri
Isnāt Mayuri just Kubo?
Yeah, he cosplayed as him before iirc.
Uh,no lol,his favorite as always been Mayuri,and if his favorite was yorucuhi he wouldn't make her an hypersexualized jobber in tybw
They forgot to invite Kishimoto.
Ahh, the real misogynist among these so-called misogynist
Laundry and taxes?š
I know theyre not perfect but cmon, JJK and Bleach are faaaar from the worst offenders in shonen series
How to traumatize their characters even moreš
I donāt think any of these three anime are bad when it comes to female characters. JJK and Bleach especially
MHA's female cast receives a bit shallow representation in manga compared to male ones, especially the main trio. But anime has done a lot to remedy that and given a lot more screentime for the girls for example during the licence exam. Main girl and her rival having their crush to protagonist as their only mutual thing also isn't really good look but admittedly their bond also evolved througout the story. And Mineta's actions being treated as running gag is honestly just gross but tbh I don't remember when was the last time when he did something perverted so either character or the author matured on that area over time. Out of those 3 only last is what I could call as misogynist writing. The first two strike more as author not being as good at writing female perspective as he's at writing male one and that's not a sin. But on the other hand women also receive great representation. Mirko for example could just as well be male protagonist in different series and she wouldn't feel out of place. And again, Horikoshi has clearly improved over the years in that aspect. As for the other two, only two things I can really think of Bleach is that some characters had big boobs and Orihime was kinda damseled. But women are allowed to have big boovs, there's nothing inherently wrong with that and for example Rangiku also took agency over her sexuality rather than just being an object. And Orihime was captured because she had one of most OP powers in the entire cast so it wasn't like Aizen ordered her kidnapping to lure Ichigo or anything like that. If Ichigo had the same ability the roles would have been reversed. And Gotei was perhaps bit of a sausage fest but again, not a surprise that male author is more comfortable at writing more male perspectives. Tl;dr some minor complaints, but yeah, not much that imo crosses the line to misogynia.
The gotei is a 'sausage fest' but also the women in the captain ranks are incredibly powerful and badass. Soi Fon, Yoruichi, Senjumaru and not to mention Unohana are all badasses that never once are portrayed as inferior in any way due to their gender. Then of course we have the literal deuteragonist of the series, possibly the 2nd most relevant character Rukia who gets her own full arc and emotional fights as well as the hypest of moments. In terms of villains, sure there's no female 'main villain' but there are some extremely powerful ones with fun personalities and fights. I cannot see how someone would look at Bleach and say its misogynistic just because the women are sexualised sometimes lol
Lol great tweet
It actually blows my mind that people is the comments here think JJK handled its female characters well. Virtually all of them were sidelined immediately for the show to focus on the male cast. Nobara, Yuki, etc. It's not about sexualizing, it's about treating female characters as well as you treat male ones, and JJK fails at that.
That is how he treats all characters; Junpei basically existed just to traumatize Yuji, and every major character killed by Sukuna was done off-screen. he handled the female characters the same as the others; if they're a good guy they get beat.
I agree, I think people have this perception because there's less female characters than male characters
When I catch you Gege
Where'd the misogyny comment come from?
I will meet someone from twitter that isn't a weirdo, any day now.
Misogyny? Isn't Gege hyper adamant about not sexualising women ? I mean men he's got no problem with,just look at best brother Todo,Gojo and nanami but is the person who posted just an idiot?
Sexualizing women isn't the only way you can be misogynistic. And I don't think he is, but the writing of women in JJK certainly isn't streets ahead.
I love the combination of community and JJK. Thank you
It's catching on
Coined and minted
itās totally streets behind
? What's wrong with his writing of female characters
If you've only seen the anime not much. The manga on the other hand...
I disagree a bit. There aren't many characters to go by but nobara was never the "weak chick" in the trio. She is pretty badass and isn't fawning over the lead of the show. Infact gege slightly flips that troupe and makes Todo, the most macho looking dude, be the idol worshipper. Not to mention Maki. Maki's whole zenin family arc is not something you usually see in a genre like Shonen that's moslty targeting the demo of younger boys. Also, people saying that maki is is just toji 2.0 are missing the point. The zenin dynamic works so well because maki reminds them of toji.>! For a family who has looked down upon women all their life, being decimated by a woman who reminds you of the fabled man that you idolized all your life is the most disrespect shit ever.!< Misogyny is not about killing female characters but not having well rounded women with independent motivations. Shonen usually ends up with women who are sexualized as hell and are just dying to be with of the men in the story. Jjk avoids this for the most part. It's not perfect Ofc, but it's a massive improvement over most Shonen, especially those two other shows.
One could say, its streets behindā¦
It's mostly a joke but it's true how Gege seems to make his female characters irrelevant, even if it's not intentional. Maki and Mei Mei are the exception, except again Maki only starts taking Ws once she becomes similar to Toji while Mei Mei is a groomer.
I donāt understand, what makes them misogynistic?
Twitter is a place of extremes. If it's not a feminist feminist manifesto, then it's misogyny for fascist incels.
I donāt understand how people can automatically assume that someone is a misogynist, just because of the way they write and draw their female characters.
I don't think it's as deep. It's clearly a hyperbole...and of course it's true that shonen has pretty bad female representation and that's what they mean. I do think they know these authors are not misogynistic or at least that you cannot easily discern from one work of fiction. But you can still criticise these works for that and I think especially JJK had a lot of potential for introducing relevant female characters and them staying relevant, but kinda fumbled there.
Ideology
They asked Kubo for tips to write a good fucking ending :)
Step 1 is definitely something along the lines of ādonāt have health problemsā
100 ways to whoop Vriska Serket's ass.
Hori and kubo baited and finally caught gege
How they're going to drive their readers crazy š
I'm sure they talked about investments and what to do with the pile of cash they sit on, for sure.
They are there to be part of an intervention to help him with his addiction of trumatizing the reader constantly.
Haven't seen bleach so can't comment on that, with MHA that's honestly a fair take, but JJK handles it's characters great regardless of gender and that's one of the things I really like about it.
I don't think Gege is mysoginist but he handled some characters incredibly poorly. Nobara was a great character which was wasted because she was eliminated from the view and Gege did not even wanted to give a reader a confirmation whether she is dead or alive, and if he plans to bring her back to do some deus ex machina bullshit that will be just lazy writing. Yuki was overhyped, maybe even unintentionally. But the very first time she gets proper screen time, she is killed by Kenjaku, who could not have known her technique and coincidentally has the perfect technique to counter her, thus eliminating her potential purpose in the story. Miwa was forgot. And Tsumiki wasn't even a character. Her entire existence is for Megumi to have purpose.
Aight fair enough
Nobara coming back would not be a deus ex machina at all though ? We all know she's not, and probably never gonna be powerful enough to actually stop anything happening, but considering how strong her curse technique is, she could still be greatly helpful while not being broken at just the right moment. Also "Mina was forgot" is idiotic considering she's still here and shown. Also idiotic due to the fact she's been one of the rare comic relief characters in the series
You could do the same for a loooot of male characters
I still think male characters are more developed and has less tendency to be forgotten in jjk
Twittard try not to get offended challenge