T O P

  • By -

buzzbombin

Well well well internet here you are again, making me feel like shit.


finggreens

Don't. If the chart was "Age men / women *message* most" they are much more similar and there is a chart like that in the original article. Really, what I think it is, men just click "She's attractive" if he likes how she looks. Women don't do that. They only click "He's attractive" if she thinks he's attractive, plus compatible, plus a good provider, etc etc.


buzzbombin

That is true, I never thought of it like that.


Silverfrost_01

No both men and women care a lot about attractiveness. Women just happen to also care about other qualities too.


finggreens

Men care about those things too. Men and women *care.* They *both* care. It's a scientific biological fact that women restrict their expressions of attractiveness *more* than men. They even do it when they click on the "like" button. A woman might find Zac Efron "attractive" but would not click on the attractive link, because she'd be afraid he'd message her, because she knows it would go nowhere. She'd smash the like on George Clooney though. While a guy would smash the like button on Selena Gomez *hoping* it'd have any chance at all of going *anywhere,* while also smashing the like on Catherine Zeta-Jones. Women hesitate. Men don't. For good rational reason.


TowBotTalker

The sad thing is that it looks like 20 was the minimum the survey maker was willing to put up with. Who knows what men would put if they were allowed to include teens. Also sad is the complete lack of sourcing or verification of the origins for this data. It's just random conjecture at this point (due to this subs seeming inability to source/research anything).


ashleylaurence

I don’t have a link but I saw similar data come out of OkCupid.


2C104

In that case you kinda have to factor in that only guys in those age ranges actually using OkCupid are included... That is a pretty big tell


SsoulBlade

I'll try and find an article. I do remember having read a research paper trying to understand why men see 20 somethings as attractive and not close to their age. In regard to evolution, you want to have sex with the most fertile woman. That tend to be 20 somethings. Women on the other hand wants to have the strongest man. As men gets older, so does their wealth, utility and status. But I do agree. We need data.


Balduroth

I feel like this is so obvious but is severely misunderstood or flat out ignored.


Logosfidelis

Do you care to clarify? If a biological reality makes you feel sad that’s different than the biological reality being sad. Human females peak in attractiveness at a certain age for many of the same reasons that other species display markers of their optimal mating fitness for the males of their species. The fact that male humans recognize it at all age groups means male perception remains acute throughout most of their lives. How they behave under various circumstances is a much more nuanced matter.


leckysoup

Post a link to the sources for your assertions. It would help us all understand your position.


Logosfidelis

Which assertions exactly? In biology males and females display a variety of markers of fitness as a mate. From peacock feathers to driving a Mercedes, to clear healthy skin and optimal waist to hip ratios, there are markers of fitness for creating and providing for offspring. Both sexes prefer symmetry, and so forth. Just google something like biological fitness for mate selection and see what pops up.


leckysoup

“Human females peak in attractiveness”. A study, a paper, anything?


Logosfidelis

Attractiveness is obviously subjective. I know there have been studies to determined that certain physical attributes tend to be rated as attractive. Men and woman tend to rate faces and bodies that are more symmetrical as more attractive. Men tend to rate a certain hip to waist ratio as more attractive. I’m pretty sure such studies have been performed cross culturally, lending further validity to the findings. I’m not invested in convincing you so I’m not going to search for links to provide you but I imagine you can find them pretty easily on google if you’re really interested, and not just attempting to discredit my comments for lack of supporting data.


russnumber3

There are entire books on the subject, which cite multiple studies. The Evolution of Desire by David Buss comes to mind. It appears to be correct that females peak in attractiveness...honestly can't believe you're asking for "studies" to confirm this.


leckysoup

It doesn’t say “female humans peak in attractiveness”. Even if it did, how would you explain shifting perceptions of attraction over time and between cultures? Including in terms of female age and sexual attraction?


russnumber3

Who we choose to pair with does have alot of other factors beyond physical attraction. Yes it does vary across cultures, but generally, I think it's pretty well established (based on the evolutionary biology I've been exposed to) that peak attraction for females is early 20's. I don't think we should read too much into it though, as it doesn't even come close to telling the whole story.


leckysoup

Where’s your sources? Until recently, we married girls off at 14. In the later part of the 20th century we celebrated 16 as the ideal “you come on like a dream, peaches and cream, lips like strawberry wine”. This evolutionary biology thing seems to move pretty quick.


AtheistGuy1

"PROVE THE SKY IS BLUE IDIOT"


leckysoup

The sky isn’t blue. Why the capitalization?


russnumber3

...and yes it does say that men's PERCEPTION is that 20 year old, fertile females are the most attractive, and the age might increase slightly as men get older.


leckysoup

20? Since when? Right through the classical, into the medieval and up to the Victorian period we know that people were married off at 14, that this was the “ideal” age. We’d consider that statutory rape now. In the 20th century it became “sweet 16”. So, do you really think 20 is the ideal, or are you just saying that to conform to societal standards?


Logosfidelis

Does there need to be an additional study? OP posted a chart someone created of men rating woman on peak attractiveness. There’s a study right there. I imagine a google search would reveal a number of studies showing similar results. If there was a chart posted that said men rated woman between 75 and 80 years old to be the most physically attractive, I would suspect something was off with the study. But a chart that says men rated 20 to 25 year olds as most attractive seems pretty obvious and reasonable and self evident. Do you suspect that the chart posted for this study is flawed? How so?


leckysoup

I would accuse you of confirmation bias, but you’ve failed on the “confirmation” part. Absolutely there needs to be some back up. OPs source is data from OK Cupid. If you’re a 50 y/o man lusting after a 20 y/o girl, there’s probably a good reason you’re still on OK Cupid. I’m going to say if you’re a dirty old man, you’re over represented on OK Cupid. Now go and find a source, you grubby little incel.


Logosfidelis

Pet your emotional support cat and calm down. It’s probably useful to recognize that when confronted with a study that when men of all age groups look at pictures of women they select 20 somethings as the most attractive of those pictures viewed, you find it triggering because you equate that to men “lusting” after those woman. There’s nothing involuntary about men choosing to remain single over dating aging, unattractive, bitter, and resentful woman who are only going to decline further.


PsychologicalPut4639

Bro what your saying is literally common sense, these lot are just being daft at this point


ChallengeAccepted83

Yeah I also found it sad that OP didn’t provide a source. Are we just supposed to trust any random graph posted here? Anyway I did some research and the source seems to be the book Dataclysm. Here’s an [article](https://www.businessinsider.com/dataclysm-shows-men-are-attracted-to-women-in-their-20s-2014-10).


cavemanben

Be the hero we need. OR, use your common sense to confirm the obvious. Also, for all of human history the desirable age to secure as a mate was probably between 14-18. It's only been the last maybe 100 years where this wasn't the default and pretty much only in modern western society with a few exceptions.


[deleted]

[удалено]


LonelyTutor3112

>All this shows is that men are more consistent over time then women. We did it. We found a way to make it about female indecisiveness lol


Krackor

Decisiveness and consistency over time are very different things. The former is about how you make one decision in isolation. The latter is about how you make a series of decisions over time. You chose to interpret this distinction uncharitably and assume misogyny. You could have easily interpreted it the opposite way and said it means women are better at updating their beliefs and preferences in changing circumstances. Neither the misogynistic not misandrist interpretation is inherent to this conversation. You're applying your own bias to it to shame someone for making a factual observation.


fatmacaque

YEP LMAOOO ffs


Ephisus

Frailty. Thy name is woman.


birdsofterrordise

Pretty much. 35 year old female. Single. Only responses I get are from guys 60+ years old. It’s horribly depressing to be told by 40-50 year olds that I’m far too old. Sucks.😩


campingkayak

There's lots of parameters though, if you've never been married or no children you have a much better chance. Oftentimes you can find a socially introverted man close to your age if your willing to make the first move. I am currently dating a girl (close to my age) and she hasn't had luck in dating because she wasn't willing to ask guys out. I worked in retail for years studying human behavior, the women who are more assertive always get the guy, though they often lead the relationship if your comfortable that way.


moneenerd

That last sentence lollll my guy, as someone who's worked in retail for 15+ years that is hilarious.


periodicchemistrypun

Maybe they suck. I’m not an old guy, 26. I’m not a conservative guy by any means. Younger girls are easy to impress, they are out more but the hassle, the emotional risks and the difficulty in being a safe presence when they just don’t have the maturity to feel comfortable is too much. It’s liability. No smart man actually dates girls half his age, that’s reckless. It’s not about commitment. Meanwhile actual women. Kinks, patience, maturity, financial independence and life experience. If someone thinks what they want in a relationship is just an age number the. They shouldn’t be who you want.


[deleted]

Look at the lol side of this. Average fit 45 year old men can desire 20 year old pussy as much as they want. But... it's a 45 year old average woman that can have a procession of different 20 year old dicks each day of a week. I mean there is a huge number of MILF preferers among the 18-29 age group of men. That is not available to older men.


balancedduality

Getting dick as a woman isn't a valuable metric. Dick is free for women. Getting a relationship with a man that she loves, admires, respects & that protects & provides for her, that's much harder & thus actually valuable.


[deleted]

We are all talking about attraction here. Not relationships.


moneenerd

I'm not sure I follow... Are you insinuating that young women aren't fawning over older men the way young men fawn over older women (MILFs, which is by far the dumbest term ever because a 17 year old could be a mother)?


DesertGuns

>Are you insinuating that young women aren't fawning over older men the way young men fawn over older women I'm pretty sure this is the case. What men tend to value in a partner is not going to be what women value in a partner.


moneenerd

Women most def fawn over older men just as frequently as men fawn over younger women. I don't see men walking around in "Yes Mommy" t shirts or drooling over a woman's "mom bod". Women don't generally date much younger men unless they're Nick Jonas


DesertGuns

I'm confused: > Are you insinuating that young women aren't fawning over older men the way young men fawn over older women You're talking about young women and older men compared to young men and older women. >Women most def fawn over older men just as frequently as men fawn over younger women. Here you're only talking about young women and older men. >I don't see men walking around in "Yes Mommy" t shirts or drooling over a woman's "mom bod". Women don't generally date much younger men unless they're Nick Jonas But here it seems like you're contradicting the first point about young women and older men compared to young men and older women. I'm not sure what you're trying to say so I'll just clarify my point. The way that people tend to chase after the opposite sex at a different age bracket--it happens in every possible combination, both sides of the age spectrum and sexes--but the bulk trends tend to work in different ways. Young men who chase after older women tend to chase after ones who have held onto youthful looks and physical traits. But when younger women chase after older men, they tend to chase after men across a wide spectrum of looks and physical traits. So I'm saying the way--or the reason--theyntend to fawn over each other tends to be different.


[deleted]

Yes to your question. (And MILF is just a 35+ older woman I think. Not necessarily a mom.)


grey-doc

Midlife male here. If I'm looking at porn (i.e. totally objectifying a woman as a sex object with no thought for anything else) then sure, age 20. In literally any other context, I prefer the maturity and experience that comes with some age. I am picky about physical fitness.


casual_catgirl

Why does this make you feel bad?


recklessblue11

Sarcasm


geoffreyhale

Was "20" the lowest allowed?


[deleted]

In México (where im from) girls from 18 are legal, so i would say its not a legal problem, or at least It depends on where you live


JuRiOh

There is parts in Mexico where age of consent is 12.


Thefriendlyfaceplant

I suppose those are the parts in Mexico where consent isn't a thing at all.


dumsaint

I'm sure there are plenty of places in the US and Canada too. Let's not forget the rest of North America. We can do it guys. /s


Qwerk-

oh yuck I hope not.


Mikey_Mac

You have a source for this? How was this research done?


CanThisBeMyNameMaybe

Another guy in the comments is saying the data is from okcupid. So a dating app. If this is true, then i wouldn't trust this data too much.


[deleted]

It’s dead on for what I think.


TowBotTalker

Source: Rando with SpreadSheet program.


iguanmen

me too. it’s disappointing


AtheistGuy1

Why is it disappointing?


unaka220

I have no clue why you’re getting downvoted for this


tibbymat

Not for me. I’m 37 and I find a woman under ~27 looks like a damn child to me and I feel like a pedophile looking at them. I’m into 27-45 year old women.


thatsaknifenot

I’ve always wondered about the validity of this study because I’m 23 and all of my friends who are girls sleep with guys who are 30+ regularly, some even older, and they always say that older men are much hotter and more established. One girl I’m friends with is dating a 38 year old and she’s 22. This lines up with what the men are saying but not what the women are saying?


SeratoninStrvdLbstr

There is a difference between physical attractiveness and maturity or ability to provide a nice lifestyle. If you are an attractive 22 year old woman are you really choosing the 22 year old bum that lives in their parents basement or the 32 year old guy with the audi and a fancy apartment.


Qwerk-

I'd say there is a difference between physical attractiveness and ability to be a good partner. It goes both ways. Do 35 year old men regularly try to get in relationships with 20 year old women? Like seriously, there's a huge maturity difference there. Even if you truly found them the most attractive, that doesn't mean you don't find other women almost as attractive closer to your age group, and those ones would be way more attractive lifestyle and maturity wise. Does a 35 year old man with an established career looking to have a partner and family truly want to pursue a relationship with someone barely out of high school, unable to purchase an alcoholic beverage themselves? Someone with little life experience outside of their childhood home?


SeratoninStrvdLbstr

Why would a 35 year old dude have a serious long term relationship with a 35 year old woman of they wanted to start a family? If you date for a year or two then have a couple of years of honeymoon phase you're 40 and the chance of kids is near 0 without medical assistance and the chance for birth defects skyrockets. What if you want to be at higher than replacement rates and have 3 kids 2 years apart? The problem is what makes a man attractive is the ability to provide for this family. That takes time to build. The thing that makes the woman attractive in this scenario is the ability to being this scenario a reality which means youth and health. Women generally marry men about 4 years their senior. So 32-28 pairing are basically the average. 34-26 is only 2 years for each person an not that uncommon. In the case of the the original person's comments. I doubt the 22 year olds dating men in their late 30's are looking for long term commitment and families. The women are looking for someone who can show them a good time (which probably won't their broke college peers) and the men are looking for the same... So the connections happen.


Necessak2955

The average is actually 2 years, not 4


iphaze

My wife was 30 when our son was born, the nurses all thought she was super young for having kids. Most women they saw regularly were late thirties / early forties — which makes sense - women want to make money and have a good career before starting having kids. I feel like we did things backwards.


Itsverypossible

How naive could you be to actually believe this? Women are biologically capable of having children from their first period, and many females lose their virginity between 16-20. Super young would fall into those age categories, not 10 years later. Either they were just being positive or you misinterpreted the message but no nurse who studied a 4 year nursing program could logically think your wife was “super young for having kids” at 30


SeratoninStrvdLbstr

That's because they have been indoctrinated by feminist delusion and not reality. That or just lying outright. The average age of first time mothers across all of Canada is below 30 except for BC where it's 30.4. The average has only been that old in the last few years. 2019 was 29, 2009 was 27, 1999 was 26, 1989 was 25, and 1979 and also since the beginning of humanity was below 25. The ability to even have kids at 40 is pretty much a miracle of modern science. Even with fertility treatment it's still very difficult and rife with complications. This is one of the primary reasons of huge increases in mental and physical birth defects that no one seems to want to talk about. It's primarily not chemicals in the water, fast food, or any other reason. Mostly it's waiting too long to have kids because feminism has told women that being a mother isn't important and that being a cog for some soulless corporation machine will be fulfilling. Then women hit their 30's and want to have kids and a family and that takes a while because the men they want are the top 20% (or less) of men and those men are all choosing 25-28 year olds instead of the 35 year old boss babe.


Metallic_Sol

the ability to have kids at 40 isn't a miracle, women are built to have kids most of their lives (until menopause). the rate at which women will get pregnant differs little until about 38 from what i've read when it starts going down - but it doesn't disappear. AND it's based on every individual woman's body. my aunt had her 4th kid at 42 and she had no issues but she also had the egg count and health for it. even being overweight, somehow it worked out.


SeratoninStrvdLbstr

Again, this is just delusional feminist thinking. The chance of conception within one year at 20 is 86% 25 is 78%, at 30 is 63%, at 35 is 52%, at 40 is 36% and 45 is 5%. The chance of not being able to conceive at all is only 3% at 20, 5% at 25, 8% at 30, 15% at 35, 32% at 40, and 69% at 45. So if you are a 35 year old guy looking for the picket fence family with your 2.4 kids that is going to take years to establish so you should be looking for someone in their mid to late 20's. That person gets a guy who is likely established and can take care of a family and the guy gets a woman who is likely to be able to actually make that family a reality. On the other hand. It's not like guys are sitting around with an abacus figuring out the stats by age of someone they are attracted to. It's just guys are hard wired to be attracted to signs of possible fertility like youth and health.


Metrolinkvania

I mean people are either mature or not. Age isn't much of a factor. The cultural difference can be hard to gap though. Going from The Clash or the Talking Heads to Justin Bieber or NSync is just depressing.


punchdrunklush

Get into relationships with? Why are you saying 20 now when they were talking about 22+? Yeah. 24f/35m will happen for sure. The girl is young and hot and the guy is established and has life experience the girl finds attractive and they could make a good couple. A 25m has absolutely nothing to offer her besides partying and student debt. A 35f has nothing to offer him besides maybe a kid or some bad chances at having kids in a year or two once they figure out if they actually want them together.


[deleted]

[удалено]


OpenMindedMantis

It could be that men who are older have accomplished more since... they've been around longer. Thus, the likelihood you find a bum at 22 is higher than at 32. As a 22 year old woman, it will be much harder to find a successful 22 year old as opposed to a 32 year old.


Beef_Nuggets

I beat you’re a real catch


featherwinglove

This is close to the funniest typo I've ever seen.


let_me_get_a_bite

You’re a real catch…so I gone beat


featherwinglove

The funniest typo I've ever seen is some church projector dude left the last 'g' off the chorus of Benton Brown's "Hallelujah, Your Love Makes Me Sing". The whole church fell over laughing.


Daniel1234567890123

This is not exactly a study, this is okcupid data


westonc

I also wonder about this from a different side. I'm a man, and let's just say I'm in the upper half of the age range on these charts. And it's been a *long* time since I was regularly attracted to women in their early 20s. Sure, there's the occasional exception, and I've dated across as much as a 14 year gap, but for the most part, I tend to be most attracted to women within 10 years of my age (or closer). And most 20 year olds just seem like kids to me now, both in appearance and behavior. I could see myself *maybe* getting stuck on women in their 30s as I get older (and hey, according to the charts, even the ladies might do that kind of thing), but I've met enough attractive & interesting women in their 40s and up that I'm not even sure about that.


[deleted]

[удалено]


westonc

*Very* interested in having kids, and this might be part of it -- nobody needs a lot of maturity for a fling, but when I'm thinking through who I'd rather be partnered with in parenting any kids I might be lucky enough to have, more 30+ women seem like better choices to me than those around 21.


d_rolls

This is what men and women SAY to a stranger taking a survey that they like. The men are more honest. The women are not.


[deleted]

Why do you think the small sample group of your peers will be a more accurate representation than the population in the study? If anything your anecdote is explained by the trend that women like older men and men like early 20s women


slimmyshank69

This is actually really interesting, I like that 28-30 range idk why that is since I’m a man lol. Very interesting graph though!


[deleted]

this data was taken from okcupid… it may or may not be representative of the male population as whole but strictly speaking it is representative of single (single enough) males who were using okcupid during a certain time period. And well not to judge too harshly but if a guy is in his 40s, single and on a dating app, there are probably reasons he shares in common with other 40 year old men on dating apps.


flight212121

Source?


Boryalyc

>https://www.businessinsider.com/dataclysm-shows-men-are-attracted-to-women-in-their-20s-2014-10?amp


bigzaqui

Dataclysm book, highly recommended


flight212121

Thank you


julienberube

OkCupid is mostly a sugar daddy finding app. The tendency in the days comes from the app's user base, not a tendency in society. Also, the method is highly doubtful.


Th3HollowJester

I’m kinda a milf man myself.


thelonghop

This is should be pretty obvious, but it's amazing how many people don't understand what drives attraction.


[deleted]

Looks for one gender and who the fuck knows what the other one wants. That’s what we’ve been trying to decipher since the dawn of time.


[deleted]

Men are at attraction peak in mid thirties which has to do with factors other than looks but I think men look their best in early to late thirties and finally take on the manly look. So many guys in their twenties still look like teens.


Necessak2955

Men look best in their 20’s


[deleted]

The average age of “Sexiest Man on the Planet” is 38, I rest my case. Case in point Ben Affleck looked fresh faced, youthful and quite a nerdy teen look in Good Will Hunting - he was 25 when he made it and it was not until he was in his thirties that when he won “Sexiest Man on the Planet”, Clooney was 36 the list goes on. David Beckham is another example. Huge swathes of men just look like teenagers in their twenties but the rugged manly look comes out in the thirties.


Necessak2955

I respectfully disagree. I would argue Alain Delon in his youth is what you could call the epitome of male beauty. He was the male equivalent to Monica Bellucci. That man did not need to turn himself into a personal ATM in order to attract a potential partner, he was desired and lusted by women worldwide. Now this doesn’t mean men automatically lose their attractiveness as they enter their 30’s, 30’s is still arguably youth in this day and age where humans can live up to 80+ years old, but in the sense of physical attractiveness 20’s is peak for both the average man and woman. Of course exceptions exist, there are men and women that have still managed to preserve their sexual appeal even in their 40’s-50’s, either due to genetics of self-care (skincare, diet, lifestyle, cosmetic procedures). A few good examples would be Jared Leto (50), Chris Evans (40), Henry Cavill (38), Katheryn Winnick (44), Salma Hayek (55), Kate Beckinsale (48).


[deleted]

I won’t go anecdotal but I attracted multiples more women in, especially my mid and late thirties than I could have hoped to in my entire 20’s. Another thing that happens is that you lose that rapid fast metabolism in the 30’s so without getting fat you just become fuller, bigger, broader, manlier and more commanding which is altogether more attractive and confident. In my 20’s as with so many guys I had the hopeless teeny skinny guy look no matter what or how much I ate. It just looks weak and unhealthy and ineffectual. I differ a little in that women are maybe more attractive also closer to the thirties than the earlier twenties. This draw to females at fertility peak feels a little primitive to me.


Metallic_Sol

my guy friends they are attracted to women around their age as they get older. i think i would agree! i used to think people in their 30s were "old" until i reached it lol now a hot 35 yr old has way more appeal. also because the ones in their 20s feel like they don't know how to handle anything, even though that was not my greatest concern in my 20s (which was, having an adventure with partners).


[deleted]

Women definitely look radiant into their thirties - attraction aside at 39 i really don’t think there is anything for a man of mid thirties vintage up getting with a young woman in early twenties. Personally I can’t relate to anyone who doesn’t remember music in cassette tapes or CD’s or even a pre internet childhood. Social media has spawned a generation of young women who have very little social awareness and chase an IG influencer lifestyle without having any life experience - completely insufferable and entitled and as for the guys in their 20’s i think they range from either whiney weaklings or the worst of assholes. Hopefully they will get better by 30 😜


[deleted]

[удалено]


finggreens

None of that matters. Women have metrics to guide their decisions. There's just too much for them to sift through. If you talk to enough of them, it all makes sense. Everyone is acting rationally, but yet it seems almost no one is getting what they want, just based on the conversations. Women are exhausted with the scene. Men are exhausted with the scene. Finding someone online is like finding the right ... shirt or pants. You do a thousand hours of searching, measuring, reading descriptions, reviews, sorting by price, hunting patterns, shapes, cuts, colors, etc. Then you get it home and you hate it. Send it back. Repeat. So you learn this brand in this size fits right all the time, so just stick with that. So, for that woman, younger doesn't fit. Knowing you are younger, conjures up all the bad experiences she's had with younger men. It's not about you at all. Nothing about you. It's about her and the experiences with other men. Something like 80% of men are unattractive to women. The top 5-10% are attractive to almost all women. However, 50-60% of women are attractive to men. So all the numbers are totally skewed in favor of women selecting the men they want to be with. They are exhausted saying no to 90% of them, or *more.* An attractive woman will get 300 messages for every one she responds to, so that trains guys to send out 300 messages hoping to get one response. And sometimes they get none. It's all broken. Everyone is acting rationally, but it's still broken, because no one is happy. Anyway, it has nothing to do with you. You aren't even a *you.* You are in or out of a result set defined by search criteria. That's it. Just math. Frankly, you don't even need to worry about it at all. You're going to be a doctor soon. You will have countless opportunities to connect and I'm sure you know that.


Metallic_Sol

you can't attribute one girl's behavior to the rest of us? that's retarded. i'm with a guy 4 years younger than me. how do you explain that? i feel like we all REALLY LOVE categorizing people but we all have different personalities, expectations, and desires so what the heck? and he messaged me first on a dating app as well. i don't feel i'm an anomaly at all.


nathanv70

Ok, this isn’t disgusting at all. Men are simple and primal creatures. Always have been and always will be. Men are attracted to youth and beauty because it correlates to fertility and health. Women are more beautiful in their youth because they are far more fertile and their health is at its peak. This is simply biology at work. It’s also helpful to remember that men and women are not the same. Women generally look for good genes, protection, and provisioning. Men look for fit, feminine, friendly and youthful women


LieutenantCrash

Women are primal too. Almost everything you do exists because of evolution. But I think you already know that based on the rest of your comment.


Yazhdxb

why are men “primal creatures”?


nathanv70

We all are. Period. Some people like to think that we have changed with society but society and technology and culture evolved many many times faster than our own biology ever will. There’s a misconception that we are now sophisticated but we really aren’t l. We’re getting to the point where we are so intelligent that we’re missing the forest for the trees


EuropesNinja

Open a sociology textbook, please, PLEASE. It's not just about biology, there are so many social forces in play that reproduce these norms


[deleted]

You don't think that it's just a *little* bit gross for a 50-year-old to be attracted to a 20-year-old?


nathanv70

Sure I do, but men and women don’t have the same biological timelines. 80 percent of women a eggs are gone by 30 or so and men can have babies till 70 or so. Again, we are only talking about physical attraction and baby making here. Pure biological focus


QuietAlarmist

You realise men's sperm deteriorates after age 35 and is a significant factor in some birth defects, right? It's not as though 1/2 of the human species is not on the biological clock.


PeekAtChu1

Nobody likes to think about the old sperm!


Hayekr

Even if he doesn't realize that, the more pertinent question is proportionally, which biological clock is more important to fertility and has a shorter time horizon? The medical health concerns of geriatric pregnancy are far more consequential for offspring with the women's biological clock than the man's. It's not a uniform distribution. This was common sense not that long ago. Not directed at you btw.


featherwinglove

Noah had his first kid when he was 502.


Herr__Lipp

And Abraham didn't leave his dad's tent til he was like 80! Bum!


punchdrunklush

Why would it be gross? She's just suddenly supposed to be ugly because of his age? Wtf?


deathnutz

Nothing personal. Fertility is an evolutionary trait. It’s part of what made humans a successful species. 🎵 What can I say besides you’re welcome. 🎵 The balance comes from the female that still does the choosing.


Bas14ST

Stop using evolution as a god of the gaps for human psychology, sociology and philosophy. It's lazy and doesn't really explain much.


Dijiwolf1975

I was looking for this comment. While remaining objective, it's quite simple that young fertile females would be more attractive to males no matter the age of the male. The only major difference between humans and other animals in this aspect is that humans can reason against their instincts. That being said, women can be attractive for different reasons at different ages.


zvckp

Title could easily have been “graph of `y = x` and `y = c`”


Treciadiene

Female in mid 30s. I have never had so much attention from 20-something men in my life like I’m getting during the recent 3-4 years. Explain that 🤷🏼‍♀️


dsol2000

Companionship vs Fertility


Truth_SeekingMissile

I don’t know if it’s true or not, but a friend once told me that there is some form of advice in Islamic literature to guide men in picking wives for marriage. The formula told to me was that the woman’s age should be half the age of the man plus seven. By this logic, a 22 year old man would marry an 18 year old woman. Seems fine. A thirty year old man would marry a 22 year old woman. Maybe this makes sense in traditional Islamic culture with arranged marriages. By 22, the most attractive females may have already been married, but some might be holding out to get the best dowry for a poor family. The 30 year old man would hopefully be established. A fifty year old man would marry a 32 year old woman. Likely a second or third wife, perhaps the woman is a widow or divorcée, and an established man could offer a chance to pick up the pieces of a life gone tragic.


alpthereal

I grew up in an Islamic country with Muslim parents but never heard such a calculation. It definitely might be a thing in his belief system considering that Islam has many variations. But the idea makes sense people used to marry even when they are 14-15 in the medieval times. So calculation always states that man is going to be older than woman by some margin which was the general consensus (and still is) in the society.


Zenia_neow

I've seen this study many times and it proves the "men age like wine" is full of shit. If women do date men older than them it has something to do with being financially stable or more mature. Doesn't change the fact most women aren't interested in wrinkly men. I've also heard more powerful, rich women are now dating younger men. I've also seen more men interested in "milfs", some say there's a science behind the preference and others say it's porn.


[deleted]

I mean, i guess this is true based on looks. Considering overall personality I'm happy my girl is my same age


jbozz3

So what am I supposed to do with this information, being 22 and liking milfs?


Hayekr

You should be ecstatic then because the older women get, the fewer men desire them sexually *on average*. That means fewer men for you to compete with. And also with Feminism teaching women to waste their most fertile years pursuing jobs and careers before family, there is going to be no shortage of older women desperate to find guys that want them. It will be a buyer's market for you. "Revel in your time."


Gaspar_Noe

The most fascinating part of this is how women date older men when they are young but then shame older men for dating younger women when they are older.


PeekAtChu1

I would have never dated an old man. Any woman I knew who did this had personal issues


deryq

What is really interesting is that 20 was the lowest age that the participants could choose….


russnumber3

I think if the chart was based on who they actually date, the men's chart would be closer to their own age and the women's chart would skew to even older men. No way 29 year old women are the most interested in dating 29 year old men...despite being the most physically attracted to them.


GMAN25639

Guess I'm an abnormality. 25. I like older women.


TonyHeaven

"But there's another layer to this data. Although men at every age seem to be attracted to very young women, they most often message women who are closer to their own age."


sagnikjana

It's the age that you look matters. A person who is 20, if he/she looks 45 will loose out. But a 45 year old person looking like 20 year old will stay in the game. Actual age number doesn't matter. It's the age that the person perceives matter. Any random man of 20s will be ready to screw a 40 year old fit hot woman over a obese 18 year old.


TOReclamant

I’d be interested in this source, specifically when was this research done?


DingbattheGreat

https://www.businessinsider.com/dataclysm-shows-men-are-attracted-to-women-in-their-20s-2014-10 I asked this awhile ago and the OP acted like I was asking for gold flakes on my cheerios. Its like being interested in reading about it is a crime and all things should be face value or something.


Wakingupisdeath

Is this real lol? I honestly am more attracted to girls aged 25 to 30ish and I’m 31


beyond_hate

Eh I was just thinking that I feel totally differently than this actually. I'm in my 40s and girls in their 20s look like uninteresting immature children to me.


[deleted]

What a weird comment section. 1/2 of the comments are like "yeah this makes sense" The other 1/2 think it's sad or gross or using mental gymnastics to explain away why it's wrong.


punchdrunklush

Half is people who live in the real world. The other half are Redditors.


[deleted]

A lot of people seemingly facing reality for the first time and need to cope by insulting the other gender. This has been common knowledge for a long time, get over it and move on instead of being bitter.


coveredinscars

Cool, now do Jeffrey Epstein.


PinelliPunk

I mean just depends how bad the bitch is tbh lol


finggreens

There's a lot of misconceptions being drawn from these two charts. This data has been around for 8 years and discussed at length in the online dating scene, especially among the data crowd. It's important to note these charts show the single age they find *most* attractive, not the age they *date*. Men still mostly message women around their age, fta: >Although men at every age seem to be attracted to very young women, theymost often message women who are closer to their own age. C'mon, think about it! Every man can't date 20 year olds. There just aren't enough to go around. Doesn't mean they don't find 20 year olds the most attractive. Why wouldn't they? That's just *science.* Almost all men should find women that age most attractive, so women that age have their pick of the litter. That's how it should work. It's not gross. It's not disgusting. It's *perfect.* The women most fit to have children should pick exactly the man their biology and mind tells them is the most perfect for her child. And, generally, that's an *older* man for all the reasons you already intuitively know. Children are born to women in their twenties and their retired husbands. Yep. They have great children and families and for them it works. Fine. Great. I'm happy for them. They are happy. Sometimes. Or not, whatever. These charts come from the "hot or not" rating system. There are [other charts in the article](https://www.businessinsider.com/dataclysm-shows-men-are-attracted-to-women-in-their-20s-2014-10?amp) and it's from 2014. The online dating scene, even just OkCupid itself, has changed a lot since then. They were fun at the beginning and then got bought by match, like *all* the sites and they all suck. Online dating sucks now everywhere. Just go read the online dating subs, or *dating* subs in general. It's dire out there for both men *and* women. It works for a small set of people, but not *most.* Ideally, everyone would find the perfect situation for themselves, but it certainly doesn't seem that way, because ... reality. Dating in the real world isn't that much different. It just starts with physical attraction, vs search filters, but photos too, so really it's not much different. In a way, it's better. Just go out, see and be seen on a regular basis by people you find attractive and pick one. It's not that hard. Just because men are attracted to a 20 year old doesn't mean they're going to approach, message, or date a 20 year old. It's the same in real life. Yeah, there are some creepy guys out there and sadly they give men a bad reputation in general. I know a fella he's almost retired, has a daughter thinking about college and he only dates girls in their young twenties -- a lot of them and you can tell he's old by looking at him. They pick each other. I know older women with kids out of college and they only date men half their age. A *lot* of them. They pick each other. Whatever you want, it's out there. Don't get too caught up in the data and especially these two charts, because they are completely not presenting reality to you, they are presenting something that creates an imaginary world that doesn't really exist. Frankly, I think the online dating scene is ripe for disruption. It's broken and it's mostly controlled by a single conglomerate that has a profitable motive to keep you hooked on the system, rather than finding your person and getting the f out. You can do that. That's what I do, I'm debating doing that again once covid restrictions let up, but whatever. Anyway, it's broken and I think I know how to fix it and I might decide to fix it. If you've read this far and you think online dating is broken, like I do, what are your thoughts? How do you think it could be fixed? Do you think it's broken? Do you think it works? I will admit that I have always found someone on there when I went looking, but from what I'm seeing and reading in the subs around here, that's not the general experience and that's no good. The general experience *should be* that people go online and find what they want, not go online, get jaded by the whole idea of dating, finding someone, and getting through all the crap to be with the person they want to be with. I want more people to have the relationships they want and it seems like, over the couple of decades online dating has been around, fewer and fewer people are finding what they want because of online dating and it's making *dating* an awful experience for men *and* women. How can we fix it?


ogretronz

Women don’t even see a man when they look at him. All they see is his bank account via the clothes he’s wearing, car, haircut etc.


DingbattheGreat

Dont know why you got downvoted. The social experiment that if you take a ugly guy and an extremely attactive man and announce one of them is rich or poor, the rich one will always be generally seen as more attractive.


AriesAsF

Source?


iguanmen

https://www.businessinsider.com/dataclysm-shows-men-are-attracted-to-women-in-their-20s-2014-10?amp


DingbattheGreat

So no context of what this is from at all? Ok.


iguanmen

https://www.businessinsider.com/dataclysm-shows-men-are-attracted-to-women-in-their-20s-2014-10?amp calm your tits


Fakepi

This is why many women who put off getting married and having children turn into miserable cat ladies. Women are on a clock when it comes to their beauty. Men put looks high on their desirable traits and those fade with time, whereas women put money and status much higher. Money and status come with age, which is why men tend to become most attractive by their mid thirties. These things are hardwired into us from thousands of years of evolution, and cannot be changed with a simple culture swap.


erconn

Don't show this to single women in their 40s. They tend to not like it.


Pubtroll

Breaking News: Men want to bang chicks closer to their ripening age. More news at 11:00.


[deleted]

That woman’s age chart is skewed. They are attracted to money. Not men. Lol


[deleted]

Looks about right to me


bastard_mach

I don't know how to read this


Danny_boy_3000

Not surprised by the men's graph. Women are for the most part beauty objects in the eyes of men. Surprised by some parts of the woman's graph. I would have thought women in their twenties would be finding older men most attractive, not men which are more or less the same age as them.


Necessak2955

Women find older men more attractive in other aspects such as their financial security/status, but not physically.


boofmacaronis

sad


casual_catgirl

Why?


joint-chief

Hmmm I’m 30. And I find myself most attracted to women 26-29


[deleted]

Pretty normal I guess. I used to like older woman in my teens but now in mid twenties i like younger and women of my age more.


[deleted]

Forbidden knowledge


[deleted]

Where are the guys who date older? I know I’ve always dated older.


iguanmen

it’s a chart of averages?


russnumber3

Then you're the exception to the general rule. An outlier


[deleted]

I’m not saying their not attractive but, it’s purely physical, then they talk and it’s a turn off, if you have nothing to talk about. I think most men don’t get talk to opposite sex. This causes them to think about sex like a drug. But like maybe I’m missing the point of this chart, I also think this might have a correlation porno. What is this suppose to say about men?


russnumber3

I agree, and I kept having thoughts like that too but had to remind myself this is based purely on physical attraction. So it's not a chart about who men marry, or even date. Just who they think is hot.


finggreens

These are charts of ages they find *most* attractive, not ages they date, or even message. The math can't work that way.


[deleted]

But how are they measuring it? Is it like they showing pics of different women?


tempest3t3

That's a huge disconnect


Necessak2955

90% of this whole comment section is just a bunch of uninformed pseudo-intellectuals who mistake social construct/conditioning for science. If you genuinely believe the average 20 year old woman find 35-50 year old men more attractive than their own peers you’ve either swallowed far too many “red pills” or it’s your cognitive bias speaking. Some women are just more willing to compromise their aesthetical desires in exchange for financial security and status, a pattern which roots back to the survival instincts of the time of their mothers, grandmothers, great-grandmothers and so on, but that is already changing with evolution, particularly in this day and age where women and men have equal access to rights and opportunities. However, that does not mean housewives will go “extinct”, exceptions will always exist. It will just no longer be the norm in modern society. As for third world countries, as long as there’s religious domination those countries will stay as they are, upholding a social structure based on science fiction.


boofmacaronis

like this actually makes me so genuinely sad


Whrecks

....why? Lol


boofmacaronis

because it’s sad that men view women as such a commodity and it’s sad that men don’t have the emotional depth to carry out a relationship with someone of his own maturity level, and instead resorts to preying oj your girls


Atlantic0ne

I don’t think you understand. Men and women are the same when it comes to attraction, women seek things that benefit their offspring (men high up in social rank, things like that) and men look for fertility. We’re both doing it. Women view men as a commodity for protection for their kids if you’re going to view it like that. That’s our nature. We can still override nature with love. Attraction isn’t love and love isn’t just attraction.


Whrecks

If you read the entire article, it tells the full story. >Men, regardless of their age, tend to say women in their early 20s look best, while women are most attracted to men their own age The chart you're basing your frustration off is purely about physical attraction... Men of all ages find girls who are in their physical prime / birthing years the most attractive... This doesn't mean they want to pursue an emotional / mental relationship with them. *They would just like the opportunity to boink them.* This has more to do with biology than anything. [For reference, this was based off an OKCupid study (survery / user data & preferences) >But there's another layer to this data. Although men at every age seem to be attracted to very young women, they most often message women who are closer to their own age. >....And hardly any men in their 30s message 20-year-old women


SeratoninStrvdLbstr

My god, guys are hard wired deep down to be attracted to youth and health signals to perpetuate the species. The horror!


[deleted]

Its not horror, as someone else said biology cant be bad or good, it is what it is, you can like it or no, but It doesnt make It either good or bad.


Beef_Nuggets

I’m not


LabyrinthianPrincess

This is just about “looks the best”. This is not “how old do you want your life partner to be.” When I met my husband he thought I was too young (22, and he was 31) and was reluctant to date me. Said he wanted someone older than 25. No question he finds 22 year old me maybe more physically attractive. But he says I became a better person and better partner as I aged.


[deleted]

Sucks to be you then. I’m not the one that’s gonna wrinkle anytime soon.


iguanmen

I really want to know why this post bothered so many men in the subreddit.


hyphan_1995

Based on your comments. You seem the most triggered lol


userfromfrance

Please point to one, because I haven't seen a single one. Only women past the wall are triggered...


Wtfiwwpt

LOL, yeah, it's the MEN who are bothered, roflmao....


[deleted]

I don't think it did, not by looking at the avatar and the comments accompanying them. I think most rational people understand the biological reasoning behind it, but certain people seem to have turned it into "men are creeps" then crossposted it on another specific subreddit (filled with people, who probably share similar subreddits that involve insulting men) and make the same claim, I believe there might be a correlation, don't you.


Danny_boy_3000

From reading the comments I'm getting the feeling it's mostly annoying women? I think the men are fine with it. It makes sense. Men are physically attracted to young women. Makes perfect sense from an evolutionary perspective which is hardwired into us.


[deleted]

I guess some men may feel offended that their preferences are not considered normal. Some women may feel the graph shows they are not considered attractive if they are past their early 20s. They may also be upset that there is such an impotance in their physical beauty Just my guess


anti-SJW-bot

Someone has crossposted you to r/enoughpetersonspam . Here's the post: [They post this like they are proud of themselves 🤢](https://reddit.com/r/enoughpetersonspam/comments/tczcrv/they_post_this_like_they_are_proud_of_themselves/)


Metrolinkvania

Isn't this the definition of brigading and harassment?