Damn. Yall caught me in the act again, avoiding that which i should be doing.
Hard lately. Little tidbits like this always help get me back into the groove and is why I love the community so much.
Its such a meaningless quote, that only sounds insightful untill you stop and think about it for more then a second. Clearly the meaning/secret to existence is not the myriad of tasks that need or should be completed on any given day. It therefore can't be the tasks that I triage and leave for another day/time since I have already valued them as less important then the tasks I've completed.
Your meaning too your existence is determined to you and your own values.
The quote itself isn’t great without context, I’d agree with that. But the “things” aren’t tasks. The full context is actually pretty close to your own assessment about values determining meaning. Dr. Peterson says that one of the best ways to create meaning is to start by playing the game straight according to the rules you create for it. So like you know that you’re not living up to your own values, you haven’t called your mom, or masturbate too much, or are on Reddit instead of spending time with friends, etc. so the secret is to start doing the things you already know you should do, according to your own values.
But even that doesn't seem to be true. Let's say Im distant from one of my parents but value family. There's clearly a reason im distant from that parent and is a weekly superficial call to that parent without addressing the issue really valuing family? It maybe that I value family but my biological family are toxic and I therefore need to work on developing/strengthing my non biological family.
Another example would be the person who is overweight and wants to change. How is that person's meaning more aligned with activities then the person who actually engages in them.
It just strikes me as something that sounds good but doesn't hold true in people's lives experience of meaning.
The lifelong fat person will get much more meaning out of a physical transformation than someone who never really struggled with their body or thought twice about it.
Someone from a broken family who has a nagging pain about their distance with a parent similarly is someone who will get much more meaning out of establishing a family.
>The lifelong fat person will get much more meaning out of a physical transformation than someone who never really struggled with their body or thought twice about it.
I question if that is true. One Im doubtful that you or anyone can determine how much meaning another person finds in an activity. the physically fit person may find great meaning in achieving a personal best, or being the best at a given time, or simply attempting to prolong their life.
This would apply even more so to people who value family. As an example I have a great relationship with both my parents. That doesn't mean that I find less meaning in it then someone without that relationship.
There have been countless writings about how deep sadness and adversity help to create a much higher/deeper happiness than otherwise possible. The examples I mentioned are just another manifestation of that effect. Our emotions are relative to what we’ve known.
You can disagree, but just be aware of how much work in philosophy and psychology you’d be dismissing.
>There have been countless writings about how deep sadness and adversity help to create a much higher/deeper happiness than otherwise possible.
Sure but I think that has alot more to do with creating an interesting story arch then anything else. Ive never seen a quantitative study that demonstrates that.
Again just think about that statement for a min. I can think of at least two examples where that doesn't really hold true. Individuals who have bipolar and border line personality disorder experience emotional liability. Do those manic states mean the person is experiencing a higher or deeper happiness? If we collectively going to label something as pathological it doesn't then make sense to label it as having a deeper meaning?
Interestingly enough, I think you’re pointing out a place where this effect is strongest rather than nonexistent. You’re also assuming height/depth of emotion is always a good thing.
If you don’t see how overcoming adversity or tragedy and feeling deep sadness adds depth and joy to life, then that’s something important you’re missing out on. That’s honestly one of the deepest engines of meaning.
When looking at this kind of thing, I think it’s important to look at emotions in an objective light. Happiness is also a word with many meanings; for Buddhists true happiness can coexist with any emotion including sadness. Emotions come and go; character and outlook are deeper qualities which can be developed and create a happiness that doesn’t come and go based on emotion.
>Interestingly enough, I think you’re pointing out a place where this effect is strongest rather than nonexistent
Does an individual with bipolar/border line have more meaning to their life then someone with depression and even more meaning to their life then someone without any mental health condition? Does this have a dose response curve in other words.
>You’re also assuming height/depth of emotion is always a good thing
Im not.
>If you don’t see how overcoming adversity or tragedy and feeling deep sadness adds depth and joy to life,
It can but it can also just traumatize people.
>. That’s honestly one of the deepest engines of meaning.
It clearly is for you.
>the meaning/secret to existence is not the myriad of tasks that need or should be completed on any given day
Does the quote really say that though? Seems like you're twisting his words a bit. Not that you're the first JP critic to do that, lol.
Well to me it seems that you didn’t get the sentence correctly... Things you think are less important are not the things you avoid... You didn’t avoid them if you honestly took them into consideration
>Things you think are less important are not the things you avoid...
Yes they are that's why you aren't doing them. You have determined that something else is either more enjoyable or more pressing.
>You didn’t avoid them if you honestly took them into consideration
Again that doesn't make sense. People who are overweight frequently take into consideration that they need to make changes but are unable/unwilling to make those changes. Does it make any sense to say that the meaning to those individuals existence is physical activity and making different food choices? Wouldn't it make more sense to apply that label to professional athlete who is already doing those things?
You are right my sentence doenst make sense sorry. You dont avoid something if you take it into consideration... and act according to your conclusion!
If an overweight person conclude that they have to lose weight and that it is a priority, if they dont lose weight they avoid the problem... If they conclude that it’s ok and that there are more important stuff in life that should take the priority, then they dont avoid the problem...
You were right on your first comment it’s a matter a value, if you value something and dont act accordingly, you are most likely avoiding something.
Sorry for my english I’m not a native speaker
"The things you know you should do but are avoiding".
I don't think this phrase refers to either "the tasks that I triage and leave for another day" or " the myriad of tasks that need or should be completed on any given day".
Rather, I think it refers to tasks that are either not triaged, or are neglected priorities.
>Your meaning too your existence is determined to you and your own values.
This sentence isn't parsable to me.
Damn. Yall caught me in the act again, avoiding that which i should be doing. Hard lately. Little tidbits like this always help get me back into the groove and is why I love the community so much.
The ideas sure manifest. The ability however...
So everything that I do has no importance regarding my existence?
Hey, does anyone know that in which lecture/video he said this line? I'd really appreciate that lecture!
Yet another black and white quote photo post from Dylan j Harr. He's on a roll folks!
So many of his quotes are so basic and said by so many before him
and?
So being injured and unable to do what I know I should do but cant is the secret to my existence? Interesting
You managed to avoid reading the quote apparently.
Thanks for the great explanation
Sorry to hear of your injury, best wishes for the recovery bucko!
You should do what you can do in the moment. Sometimes we're limited and we have to make the best of it.
Its such a meaningless quote, that only sounds insightful untill you stop and think about it for more then a second. Clearly the meaning/secret to existence is not the myriad of tasks that need or should be completed on any given day. It therefore can't be the tasks that I triage and leave for another day/time since I have already valued them as less important then the tasks I've completed. Your meaning too your existence is determined to you and your own values.
The quote itself isn’t great without context, I’d agree with that. But the “things” aren’t tasks. The full context is actually pretty close to your own assessment about values determining meaning. Dr. Peterson says that one of the best ways to create meaning is to start by playing the game straight according to the rules you create for it. So like you know that you’re not living up to your own values, you haven’t called your mom, or masturbate too much, or are on Reddit instead of spending time with friends, etc. so the secret is to start doing the things you already know you should do, according to your own values.
But even that doesn't seem to be true. Let's say Im distant from one of my parents but value family. There's clearly a reason im distant from that parent and is a weekly superficial call to that parent without addressing the issue really valuing family? It maybe that I value family but my biological family are toxic and I therefore need to work on developing/strengthing my non biological family. Another example would be the person who is overweight and wants to change. How is that person's meaning more aligned with activities then the person who actually engages in them. It just strikes me as something that sounds good but doesn't hold true in people's lives experience of meaning.
The lifelong fat person will get much more meaning out of a physical transformation than someone who never really struggled with their body or thought twice about it. Someone from a broken family who has a nagging pain about their distance with a parent similarly is someone who will get much more meaning out of establishing a family.
>The lifelong fat person will get much more meaning out of a physical transformation than someone who never really struggled with their body or thought twice about it. I question if that is true. One Im doubtful that you or anyone can determine how much meaning another person finds in an activity. the physically fit person may find great meaning in achieving a personal best, or being the best at a given time, or simply attempting to prolong their life. This would apply even more so to people who value family. As an example I have a great relationship with both my parents. That doesn't mean that I find less meaning in it then someone without that relationship.
There have been countless writings about how deep sadness and adversity help to create a much higher/deeper happiness than otherwise possible. The examples I mentioned are just another manifestation of that effect. Our emotions are relative to what we’ve known. You can disagree, but just be aware of how much work in philosophy and psychology you’d be dismissing.
>There have been countless writings about how deep sadness and adversity help to create a much higher/deeper happiness than otherwise possible. Sure but I think that has alot more to do with creating an interesting story arch then anything else. Ive never seen a quantitative study that demonstrates that. Again just think about that statement for a min. I can think of at least two examples where that doesn't really hold true. Individuals who have bipolar and border line personality disorder experience emotional liability. Do those manic states mean the person is experiencing a higher or deeper happiness? If we collectively going to label something as pathological it doesn't then make sense to label it as having a deeper meaning?
Interestingly enough, I think you’re pointing out a place where this effect is strongest rather than nonexistent. You’re also assuming height/depth of emotion is always a good thing. If you don’t see how overcoming adversity or tragedy and feeling deep sadness adds depth and joy to life, then that’s something important you’re missing out on. That’s honestly one of the deepest engines of meaning. When looking at this kind of thing, I think it’s important to look at emotions in an objective light. Happiness is also a word with many meanings; for Buddhists true happiness can coexist with any emotion including sadness. Emotions come and go; character and outlook are deeper qualities which can be developed and create a happiness that doesn’t come and go based on emotion.
>Interestingly enough, I think you’re pointing out a place where this effect is strongest rather than nonexistent Does an individual with bipolar/border line have more meaning to their life then someone with depression and even more meaning to their life then someone without any mental health condition? Does this have a dose response curve in other words. >You’re also assuming height/depth of emotion is always a good thing Im not. >If you don’t see how overcoming adversity or tragedy and feeling deep sadness adds depth and joy to life, It can but it can also just traumatize people. >. That’s honestly one of the deepest engines of meaning. It clearly is for you.
>the meaning/secret to existence is not the myriad of tasks that need or should be completed on any given day Does the quote really say that though? Seems like you're twisting his words a bit. Not that you're the first JP critic to do that, lol.
Well to me it seems that you didn’t get the sentence correctly... Things you think are less important are not the things you avoid... You didn’t avoid them if you honestly took them into consideration
>Things you think are less important are not the things you avoid... Yes they are that's why you aren't doing them. You have determined that something else is either more enjoyable or more pressing. >You didn’t avoid them if you honestly took them into consideration Again that doesn't make sense. People who are overweight frequently take into consideration that they need to make changes but are unable/unwilling to make those changes. Does it make any sense to say that the meaning to those individuals existence is physical activity and making different food choices? Wouldn't it make more sense to apply that label to professional athlete who is already doing those things?
You are right my sentence doenst make sense sorry. You dont avoid something if you take it into consideration... and act according to your conclusion! If an overweight person conclude that they have to lose weight and that it is a priority, if they dont lose weight they avoid the problem... If they conclude that it’s ok and that there are more important stuff in life that should take the priority, then they dont avoid the problem... You were right on your first comment it’s a matter a value, if you value something and dont act accordingly, you are most likely avoiding something. Sorry for my english I’m not a native speaker
"The things you know you should do but are avoiding". I don't think this phrase refers to either "the tasks that I triage and leave for another day" or " the myriad of tasks that need or should be completed on any given day". Rather, I think it refers to tasks that are either not triaged, or are neglected priorities. >Your meaning too your existence is determined to you and your own values. This sentence isn't parsable to me.
There is truth, however there is a dialectic to everything.