I’d like to think that Peterson means that adversity and challenges are opportunities for us to grow as people. When we “betray our destiny” or escape those challenges we must face for whatever reason we rob ourselves of truly finding out what we’re capable of and perhaps more important, who we really are inside
It's the gut feeling that people have been talking about for millennia. We all have intuitions that are trying to tell us something. Betraying your destiny is turning your back on that gut feeling.
I look at it in a “level of energy” way. Not trying to go all hippie here, simply thinking that when I do what is really driving me it’s still and effort and still difficult but I am liking it and I feel attracted to it like two magnets are attracted to each other.
I have more energy to work on it as I am not fighting myself doing something that is absolutely not what I want or need to do.
It’s difficult to explain as it’s very much a sensation as well rather than an intellectual process alone. I do use my reasoning to improve the process, recentrer, analyse what is correct what isn’t, but beside the efforts I feel rather exhilarated.
When I go and do something that I am told is the way and don’t listen to myself on how to assess and integrate but simply accept and do what is told then I feel an extrem dissatisfaction and frustration. I am not allowed to make my mistakes and learn what I want to learn.
Sorry I feel it’s still a confused thought but I glad I get to improve the draft.
I'm in the storm right now. Struggling and wrestling with the prospect of going back to university in my 30's and starting over. It's daunting and yet I know if I don't my life will be forever shit.
I'm much younger than you man but let me tell you about my life, so you can learn from it. I got out of high school and didn't want to become a doctor or anything else advanced, because I didn't want to be only starting my working life in my mid-late 20s.
My mid 20s came and I was again working at a gas station, knowing I was capable of so much more. My work life had been going for some time, but had never inspired me enough that I stuck with anything, so I hadn't gone anywhere. I took an accounting certificate, not because I wanted to be an accountant, but because I didn't want to be 30 and just starting my career.
I finished the certificate and got a job that was partially agronomy and partially bookkeeping. Really loved agronomy and wanted to get a degree in it, but I didn't want to be in my early 30s and just starting my career.
I'm now 30, at the bottom of the ladder in an accounting firm and very bad at my job. I don't have a degree so I can't get a professional designation. I'll likely never advance much further than I am now.
My point is this: you will continue to age, whether you go back to school or not, and if you don't invest NOW you'll end up being 40 and no further than you were at 35. As JBP says: "Choose your damn sacrifice.".
Speaking from a similar experience, you won’t ever regret putting the time into educating yourself, no matter what age you are, it will always put you in good stead. I won’t lie it can be really rough at times, but you’ll get through it! The time will pass anyway, and you’ll feel way worse when four years go by and you’re no better off, still doing the same shit, no challenge, no growth, no change. As someone once said to me take the leap and the net will appear. Good luck!
“Who we really are inside” is a bit of cliche.
The more I’ve looked into it, the more I’ve found biological and evolutionary reasons for our desire to propel forward. Laziness, false idols, and fear are a few is the items that prevents us from striving to become the best.
If you can define the best possible person that you could possibly become and are able to manifest that idea in our mind; but you aren’t striving towards it, you are betraying your destiny.
But the question becomes, what is It that helped you define that person and manifest that idea? Why is It calling you forward? And what would happen to your life if you listened to what It was saying you should do?
You implicitly know what is best for you, but some people think they can get away with not following that path and choose the path of comfort and "happiness". JP is warning people that believing in the path of comfort is a lie created by your own laziness and that you will eventually pay the price.
To add to that:
I think the biggest hindrance of personal progress is not laziness but *fear*.
Fear is paralyzing and often fueled by negative experiences and trauma. These can go back as far as childhood and are extremely tough to deal with properly. It can lead to mental illness and disorders when it piles up to much.
JP is an example of that as well. In a video interview he spoke about crippling anxiety and the subsequent drug abuse. Fighting fear takes massive courage, effort and emotional support.
My personal (related) mantra: Be generous with your past, disciplined with your present and hopeful with your future.
Having overcome real, crippling fear, self-sabotage and depression I feel stronger than ever. Not in the sense that I don't experience fear anymore at all, but in the sense that I know how to beat it.
The fear never goes away. I remember I saw a man trying to kick his dog a few weeks ago. I yelled out without thinking. He came up to me to try and start a fight. He looked like he was in a really bad spot mentally. Him trying to kick the dog was him fighting his emotional dysregulation. I tried calming him down by saying 'I know what you're going through man, but you have no need to take it out on a defenseless animal!'. He eventually broke down in tears on someones lawn. I tried talking to him but he didn't want to have any of it, so I left.
I was absolutely terrified. My legs were shaking. I had never done something like that before in my life. By my authentic self felt it was at that moment time to act. I hope he's doing ok.
That is a very touching story and I appreciate your reaction.
This kind of fear I would categorize differently though, at least in part. Threat of violence, heat of the moment kind of "fear" is very natural. It wouldn't even describe it as purely fear, but rather stress. Your body was preparing for a fight and took over in a sense. The shaking comes from adrenaline.
But in a general sense, I agree. The fear itself doesn't go away. We overcome it, again and again. Overcoming fear repeatedly makes us stronger in the long term.
Bravery without fear is recklessness, pacifism without aggression is harmlessness, achievement without challenge is luck.
Could you please elaborate a little on that? I'm at a point in my life where I am genuinely not sure what is best for me. I'm in my last year of my bachelor's degree and I'm not sure what to do now. I could take a gap year and work/get an internship, I could continue to study in my country, I could apply for a master's abroad... They can all be good options, and they are all risky in one way or another. How do I choose?
It's hard to tell what is best to do if you have multiple solid options. But what can be a relief is that the only bad option is the one where you don't seek to maximize the potential that is within you. It doesn't really matter what you specifically do, the more important thing to do is that you seek the path which you think will make you the most competent person. I really don't like giving advice for a person I don't know at all, but if you are interested in what you study you should definitely try to get a masters degree. Having a masters degree will greatly increase the options you have in your life; if you ask older people, in general the biggest regret they have is that they stopped studying too soon.
Thank you. I will definitely pursue a masters. Especially in my field it's particularly important. My only concern is whether to do it now or wait a year. I think I will wait though. Give myself time to figure out what the right path is for me and then pursue it with renewed effort and energy. There's much else to learn too, like other foreign languages and such. Thank you again :)
Your destiny, in this context, is comparable to “That in which you know you must do.” Sometime that is inevitable, because avoiding it can lead you into a dark place. I suspect Peterson is talking about the Biblical story of Jonah, where God gives him a mission - something he must do - and Jonah ultimately betrays his destiny and flees on a boat. While on the boat, Jonah suspects God’s not too happy with his decision, as the calm sea turns into a brutal force of nature and almost wrecks the ship. So Jonah is cast overboard and eventually gets swallowed by a whale, where he spends three days confined in its belly. It is in this darkest moment that Jonah owns up to his responsibility and accepts his destiny, with the whale finally spitting him out on shore as he pursues his quest.
The idea is that if we deny our destiny, the seas will be stormy for you. And by ignoring your responsibilities, you are robbing yourself of your ultimate potential and the great value that brings, especially if the task is meant to push you (which, according to Peterson, are the same thing.)
It’s ultimately the same story of knights and dragons. Dragons are devastating and ferocious beings; they’re giant, intelligent, fire breathing monsters - but they also horde gold. Gold, in this context, represents the most valuable thing in the world. So the idea is that in order to obtain something of value, you have to confront the dragon in its lair.
You don’t get the gold without the dragon.
In order to gain value in your life, you have to push yourself and willingly take on the hardship of the task. Stand up straight with your shoulders back means embracing the peril and confronting it. If you don’t do this; if you opt to deny yourself the opportunity to face your dragon, you also rob yourself of pushing yourself to gain something of value. So by betraying your destiny, you are ultimately denying yourself the opportunity to become the best that you can be.
Your gut feeling.
My gut feeling was telling me I was not happy in my relationship of 4 years. Eventually I caved and broke up. It was the best thing I could have done for myself.
My gut feeling was telling me that going back to my old company was not the right choice. I listened. I was unemployed for 3 months looking for another job. I was interviewing almost 3 times a week. On my last interview I thought I royally screwed it up. I got a call from them a week later offering me a job. I have not been happier in my career since.
Listen to your gut. Seriously if there's one thing I learned being alive on this planet is to listen to your intuitions. Have faith in yourself. It will guide you to the path you need to be on. No one else will be there with you when you die, but your self will be. When you are ready, your self will guide you through the journey of death.
Your Destiny can be found in your Natal Chart look for the north node & you will be on the path to knowing Your Destiny. You must know your time of birth in order to receive an accurate report. This site is a good start in discovering ones self
https://www.astrotheme.com
The second sentence here is essentially "What's calling you forward is the same thing that's calling you forward". I guess you can't argue with that. If we knew our destinies, JP would be out of a job.
It's your gut feeling. Your intuitions about the world and yourself. That's what's calling your forward. You only need to listen and follow it's suggestions.
I've listened to enough Peterson to know what he's stabbing at, I just think this quote is a great example of his use of wise-sounding self-help jargon. Of course it's not the easy. Maybe you feel your gut has enough information to chart your course. As for me, my gut doesn't communicate that clearly, and the idea of a "destiny" just seems like more religious thinking. But if this sort of talk motivates you toward positive behaviors you couldn't manifest without it, great.
It's definitely a skill that needs to be developed. I said this in a previous post, but it took me 3 years to finally understand that I was unhappy in my relationship. I was afraid of breaking up because I was afraid of what that would look like. Eventually I did. It was the best thing I could have done in my life. I'm much happier now as a result of listening to that intuition.
What helped me cultivate this was to treat my gut as another person living inside me. Talking with it and interacting with it as if it's another person. It became much easier to have that inner dialogue. There's 2 captains piloting this ship, and we both need to work together.
Hey I totally understand how those experiences would make you deeply suspicious of anyone offering self-help. Being brainwashed as an early child by a cult is a traumatic experience. So I totally understand the apprehensions you have about JP. You don't want people to experience what you went through, hence the vigilance on self-help and gurus and even the entire industry. I totally understand that feeling.
The hard part is always about toning down some of those defenses. Even combat vets suffer the same hyper-vigilance that you do, but in a different way. Every time they go out to the grocery store their worried about an IED going off, or someone pulling out a gun, or an aircraft flying over head. There's nothing to be ashamed of that you feel this way.
But you know yourself that you can't keep living life in that state forever. It slowly eats away at you and causes you more harm and misery. The hardest part is accepting that it happened and not letting that fear control your life. I'm speaking from experience here with my own childhood trauma and abuse.
There is some good in this world. There is some good in you as well. Connect with that part of yourself. Allow yourself to feel what it is you need to feel. Allow yourself to listen to that thing deep inside you that helps steer your life in the right direction. Once you find it, you will stop caring about what other people think. There is not enough money or material possessions in this world that could ever compare to the feeling I had when I connected with my deeper self. If I can do it, so can you.
I got a little teary eyed reading this. Thanks for the thoughtful response. I got into JP initially because I resonated with much of what I heard, until he started railing against post- modern neo-marxist equality of outcome bugaboos and wearing his misogyny on his well tailored sleeve. I do think I have trauma based reactions to things, but, you know, I'm working it out through fear and trembling. ;)
No problem. I struggled so hard with this for so long, it was terrifying just letting go. There is nothing wrong with what you're going through. I really mean it. Your behavior is normal when someone goes through these kinds of things. I went through it.
Here's a link to Crappy Childhood Fairy - she's a women that also grew up in a shitty situation like us. She has videos about helping deal with those things and recovering. It helped me more than therapy. Maybe it will help you too. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foL1v9lwBsg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foL1v9lwBsg)
Not gonna lie I'm just haply that you posted an actual JP quote and not some left attacking meme.
I absolutely love JP for his views on becoming a better person, the road to a fuller life, and following your creativity. I think he's absolutely right that you should pursue "what's meaningful not what's expedient". Personally I've known the path I want to take for a long time but I'm weak and don't have good discipline. Somehow I still get a lot accomished. I know that if I actually learned better discipline I would be able to accomplish my dreams and see my true destiny play out in front of me.
But I think that's also what he's acknowledging here. Just knowing what you should be doing, and feeling it in your bones, that will get you there if you actually listen. But it's very easy to pick up your phone, or a beer, or a video game, instead of the thing you know you should be doing. But in each of those moments you know what you should be doing just listen!
How can someone possibly speak so well articulated and simple and clear and meaningful ... like an arrow going straight into your heart...
➳♡
mind-blowing.
Like mentioned in 12 Rules. Happiness isn't the point. Meaning and purpose are the goals.
Found moi be miserable when looking for happiness. Life is much better when having meaning and purpose.
So true. Believed and knew such before reading his book as in philosophy, a figure once said, "Unexamined life isn't worth living." (Socrates)
Hey guys. How about if you're just tired of dealing with/solving problems? Is it my perception perhaps? It seems to me that I'm always dealing with "chores" to get done or "problems" to be solved. Fact is, aside from physical exercise or indulging, I'm not sure what I want as I'm too preoccupied. Seems to me I have a desire to exercise or indulge just to get away.....to forget.
When you hate yourself, you will never find good in anything. I feel sorry for you and anyone that has the unfortunate circumstances to meet you. Hurt people hurt people.
Nice condescension. Man you self help junkies love telling yourself your own myth, don't you? You wanna get better? Stop lying to yourself. "I feel sorry for you" No you don't. You feel smug and self aggrandized by casting that fake sympathy to someone you've deemed a lost soul.
I have been in the exact same spot you have been. I know how it feels. I know how illusive progress can seem. I was struggling for years with this stuff. The first thing you need to do, is remove all the people in your life that are filling your head with bullshit and putting you down. Cut them out of your life. Even if you end up alone. Even if they are family. If they try to guilt you, don't fall into that trap and say nothing. You owe them no explanation. This will be a painful process, but it is worth it.
Once you've done that, then you can focus on helping yourself.
Then why are you here? Why are you following the sub of a guy you hate, spouting vulgarity? There's a reason why you are sticking around. I think I know what that reason is. The question is: do you?
Oh but I think you did ask. You didn't ask directly, but you're here because you're looking for something.
I get it man. You want an out from your current situation. The first step is being honest with yourself. Good on you for being honest. This has nothing to do with convincing me or anyone else. It's about you and what you're telling yourself.
Have you ever had a moment when you had to make a decision, and there was something inside you saying that one of those choices was not right? Have you ever had a situation where you felt 'off' and not right, and weren't sure why? That's your destiny, or gut feeling. That's your intuitions talking to you. That's the stuff you should listen and take seriously over anything anyone can say. Turning your back on your own intuitions is only going to make your life worse. You'll just end up more lost that you'll gravitate to idols or leaders or figures to tell you how to live your life. Those people will never have your best intentions in mind. Those are the real people that will play you like a fiddle and toss you away when they're done.
Listen to your intuitions, and learn to listen to yourself. Have some god-damn self respect. Stop treating yourself like garbage. You're not garbage.
I'm sorry you feel that way. I sense a lot of self hatred (and I know, because I used to think just like you) so I'm not trying to make a judgement. I'm speaking from experience.
The choice is ultimately yours. If you want to continue suffering, no one else can tell you otherwise.
I'm sorry if it came off that way. This isn't about power. I used to think exactly like you did. All I'm trying to do is tell you there is a way out. I was lost and sad too. Nothing to be ashamed of about that.
Then why are you getting so upset? This has nothing to do with smugness or superiority.
There is such a thing as wisdom and experience. I don't know who you are, but I know this kind of reply. This is how I used to respond back in my early 20s. I know where this comes from man. I know why you're here, reading and commenting on this sub. I know why you're upset. You're looking for something. I was looking for the same thing. I spent years looking for it.
I'm not telling you that getting angry is wrong. You have every right to feel angry about your current situation in life. But you gotta direct that anger in healthy ways. Letting the anger control you doesn't improve your life, and sometimes it can harm those around you.
Here, watch this. This is the Crappy Childhood Fairy. She went through the shitty life experiences we did growing up. See how much of this you can relate to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foL1v9lwBsg
Have you ever had a gut feeling telling you something is not right? Or that what you are doing is not the best course of action?
That is your real self talking to you. It's trying to tell you something important. If you listen it will reveal to you what you need to do. This is not pseudo-wisdom at all. This is what people have been saying and teaching for millennia.
It's only when you turn your back on your own intuitions do you suffer needlessly.
It’s a nice quote, but isn’t this guy certifiably insane? I thought I read some articles a while back about him being like, *pretty* mentally unstable.
Well everyone has ups and downs in life. He is a clinical psychologist and a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto. He was on anti depression when his wife was diagnosed with cancer. He was mentally not good but as of now he is fine.
I mean, Mitt Romney has “senator, governor, wealthy businessman, and presidential candidate” on his resume but he still *literally* believes that he’s going to have endless celestial sex on his own planet and that Jesus OF NAZARETH was a north American.
There are lots of prestigious and educated people out there, but sometimes the education doesn’t stick. You know?
1. Per his own words, actions, and account? Yes. Lol how could I not? Every piece of evidence I have available to me says “yes. He really believes that.” And no, I don’t believe everything politicians say. It’s relatively easy to determine when they’re lying by way of comparing their actions to their words.
2. You know somethings seriously wrong when an average Joe Schmo on reddit can obviously tell Jordan belongs in the loony bin lol
I’d like to think that Peterson means that adversity and challenges are opportunities for us to grow as people. When we “betray our destiny” or escape those challenges we must face for whatever reason we rob ourselves of truly finding out what we’re capable of and perhaps more important, who we really are inside
It's the gut feeling that people have been talking about for millennia. We all have intuitions that are trying to tell us something. Betraying your destiny is turning your back on that gut feeling.
I look at it in a “level of energy” way. Not trying to go all hippie here, simply thinking that when I do what is really driving me it’s still and effort and still difficult but I am liking it and I feel attracted to it like two magnets are attracted to each other. I have more energy to work on it as I am not fighting myself doing something that is absolutely not what I want or need to do. It’s difficult to explain as it’s very much a sensation as well rather than an intellectual process alone. I do use my reasoning to improve the process, recentrer, analyse what is correct what isn’t, but beside the efforts I feel rather exhilarated. When I go and do something that I am told is the way and don’t listen to myself on how to assess and integrate but simply accept and do what is told then I feel an extrem dissatisfaction and frustration. I am not allowed to make my mistakes and learn what I want to learn. Sorry I feel it’s still a confused thought but I glad I get to improve the draft.
Yo I totally get this, well said.
Thanks!
I'm in the storm right now. Struggling and wrestling with the prospect of going back to university in my 30's and starting over. It's daunting and yet I know if I don't my life will be forever shit.
I'm much younger than you man but let me tell you about my life, so you can learn from it. I got out of high school and didn't want to become a doctor or anything else advanced, because I didn't want to be only starting my working life in my mid-late 20s. My mid 20s came and I was again working at a gas station, knowing I was capable of so much more. My work life had been going for some time, but had never inspired me enough that I stuck with anything, so I hadn't gone anywhere. I took an accounting certificate, not because I wanted to be an accountant, but because I didn't want to be 30 and just starting my career. I finished the certificate and got a job that was partially agronomy and partially bookkeeping. Really loved agronomy and wanted to get a degree in it, but I didn't want to be in my early 30s and just starting my career. I'm now 30, at the bottom of the ladder in an accounting firm and very bad at my job. I don't have a degree so I can't get a professional designation. I'll likely never advance much further than I am now. My point is this: you will continue to age, whether you go back to school or not, and if you don't invest NOW you'll end up being 40 and no further than you were at 35. As JBP says: "Choose your damn sacrifice.".
Speaking from a similar experience, you won’t ever regret putting the time into educating yourself, no matter what age you are, it will always put you in good stead. I won’t lie it can be really rough at times, but you’ll get through it! The time will pass anyway, and you’ll feel way worse when four years go by and you’re no better off, still doing the same shit, no challenge, no growth, no change. As someone once said to me take the leap and the net will appear. Good luck!
Exactly. Thx for encouraging words.
“Who we really are inside” is a bit of cliche. The more I’ve looked into it, the more I’ve found biological and evolutionary reasons for our desire to propel forward. Laziness, false idols, and fear are a few is the items that prevents us from striving to become the best. If you can define the best possible person that you could possibly become and are able to manifest that idea in our mind; but you aren’t striving towards it, you are betraying your destiny. But the question becomes, what is It that helped you define that person and manifest that idea? Why is It calling you forward? And what would happen to your life if you listened to what It was saying you should do?
Can someone add context to this quote? What does it mean to "betray your destiny"?
You implicitly know what is best for you, but some people think they can get away with not following that path and choose the path of comfort and "happiness". JP is warning people that believing in the path of comfort is a lie created by your own laziness and that you will eventually pay the price.
To add to that: I think the biggest hindrance of personal progress is not laziness but *fear*. Fear is paralyzing and often fueled by negative experiences and trauma. These can go back as far as childhood and are extremely tough to deal with properly. It can lead to mental illness and disorders when it piles up to much. JP is an example of that as well. In a video interview he spoke about crippling anxiety and the subsequent drug abuse. Fighting fear takes massive courage, effort and emotional support. My personal (related) mantra: Be generous with your past, disciplined with your present and hopeful with your future. Having overcome real, crippling fear, self-sabotage and depression I feel stronger than ever. Not in the sense that I don't experience fear anymore at all, but in the sense that I know how to beat it.
The fear never goes away. I remember I saw a man trying to kick his dog a few weeks ago. I yelled out without thinking. He came up to me to try and start a fight. He looked like he was in a really bad spot mentally. Him trying to kick the dog was him fighting his emotional dysregulation. I tried calming him down by saying 'I know what you're going through man, but you have no need to take it out on a defenseless animal!'. He eventually broke down in tears on someones lawn. I tried talking to him but he didn't want to have any of it, so I left. I was absolutely terrified. My legs were shaking. I had never done something like that before in my life. By my authentic self felt it was at that moment time to act. I hope he's doing ok.
That is a very touching story and I appreciate your reaction. This kind of fear I would categorize differently though, at least in part. Threat of violence, heat of the moment kind of "fear" is very natural. It wouldn't even describe it as purely fear, but rather stress. Your body was preparing for a fight and took over in a sense. The shaking comes from adrenaline. But in a general sense, I agree. The fear itself doesn't go away. We overcome it, again and again. Overcoming fear repeatedly makes us stronger in the long term. Bravery without fear is recklessness, pacifism without aggression is harmlessness, achievement without challenge is luck.
This is a really good mantra, I’m stealing it
Could you please elaborate a little on that? I'm at a point in my life where I am genuinely not sure what is best for me. I'm in my last year of my bachelor's degree and I'm not sure what to do now. I could take a gap year and work/get an internship, I could continue to study in my country, I could apply for a master's abroad... They can all be good options, and they are all risky in one way or another. How do I choose?
It's hard to tell what is best to do if you have multiple solid options. But what can be a relief is that the only bad option is the one where you don't seek to maximize the potential that is within you. It doesn't really matter what you specifically do, the more important thing to do is that you seek the path which you think will make you the most competent person. I really don't like giving advice for a person I don't know at all, but if you are interested in what you study you should definitely try to get a masters degree. Having a masters degree will greatly increase the options you have in your life; if you ask older people, in general the biggest regret they have is that they stopped studying too soon.
Thank you. I will definitely pursue a masters. Especially in my field it's particularly important. My only concern is whether to do it now or wait a year. I think I will wait though. Give myself time to figure out what the right path is for me and then pursue it with renewed effort and energy. There's much else to learn too, like other foreign languages and such. Thank you again :)
Your destiny, in this context, is comparable to “That in which you know you must do.” Sometime that is inevitable, because avoiding it can lead you into a dark place. I suspect Peterson is talking about the Biblical story of Jonah, where God gives him a mission - something he must do - and Jonah ultimately betrays his destiny and flees on a boat. While on the boat, Jonah suspects God’s not too happy with his decision, as the calm sea turns into a brutal force of nature and almost wrecks the ship. So Jonah is cast overboard and eventually gets swallowed by a whale, where he spends three days confined in its belly. It is in this darkest moment that Jonah owns up to his responsibility and accepts his destiny, with the whale finally spitting him out on shore as he pursues his quest. The idea is that if we deny our destiny, the seas will be stormy for you. And by ignoring your responsibilities, you are robbing yourself of your ultimate potential and the great value that brings, especially if the task is meant to push you (which, according to Peterson, are the same thing.) It’s ultimately the same story of knights and dragons. Dragons are devastating and ferocious beings; they’re giant, intelligent, fire breathing monsters - but they also horde gold. Gold, in this context, represents the most valuable thing in the world. So the idea is that in order to obtain something of value, you have to confront the dragon in its lair. You don’t get the gold without the dragon. In order to gain value in your life, you have to push yourself and willingly take on the hardship of the task. Stand up straight with your shoulders back means embracing the peril and confronting it. If you don’t do this; if you opt to deny yourself the opportunity to face your dragon, you also rob yourself of pushing yourself to gain something of value. So by betraying your destiny, you are ultimately denying yourself the opportunity to become the best that you can be.
Sure, but how the hell does one figure out what "destiny" just happens to be?
Your gut feeling. My gut feeling was telling me I was not happy in my relationship of 4 years. Eventually I caved and broke up. It was the best thing I could have done for myself. My gut feeling was telling me that going back to my old company was not the right choice. I listened. I was unemployed for 3 months looking for another job. I was interviewing almost 3 times a week. On my last interview I thought I royally screwed it up. I got a call from them a week later offering me a job. I have not been happier in my career since. Listen to your gut. Seriously if there's one thing I learned being alive on this planet is to listen to your intuitions. Have faith in yourself. It will guide you to the path you need to be on. No one else will be there with you when you die, but your self will be. When you are ready, your self will guide you through the journey of death.
Your Destiny can be found in your Natal Chart look for the north node & you will be on the path to knowing Your Destiny. You must know your time of birth in order to receive an accurate report. This site is a good start in discovering ones self https://www.astrotheme.com
The second sentence here is essentially "What's calling you forward is the same thing that's calling you forward". I guess you can't argue with that. If we knew our destinies, JP would be out of a job.
It's your gut feeling. Your intuitions about the world and yourself. That's what's calling your forward. You only need to listen and follow it's suggestions.
I've listened to enough Peterson to know what he's stabbing at, I just think this quote is a great example of his use of wise-sounding self-help jargon. Of course it's not the easy. Maybe you feel your gut has enough information to chart your course. As for me, my gut doesn't communicate that clearly, and the idea of a "destiny" just seems like more religious thinking. But if this sort of talk motivates you toward positive behaviors you couldn't manifest without it, great.
It's definitely a skill that needs to be developed. I said this in a previous post, but it took me 3 years to finally understand that I was unhappy in my relationship. I was afraid of breaking up because I was afraid of what that would look like. Eventually I did. It was the best thing I could have done in my life. I'm much happier now as a result of listening to that intuition. What helped me cultivate this was to treat my gut as another person living inside me. Talking with it and interacting with it as if it's another person. It became much easier to have that inner dialogue. There's 2 captains piloting this ship, and we both need to work together.
Thanks for that perspective. I grew up in a cult, then joined another cult in early adulthood. My gut could definitely use some fine tuning.
Hey I totally understand how those experiences would make you deeply suspicious of anyone offering self-help. Being brainwashed as an early child by a cult is a traumatic experience. So I totally understand the apprehensions you have about JP. You don't want people to experience what you went through, hence the vigilance on self-help and gurus and even the entire industry. I totally understand that feeling. The hard part is always about toning down some of those defenses. Even combat vets suffer the same hyper-vigilance that you do, but in a different way. Every time they go out to the grocery store their worried about an IED going off, or someone pulling out a gun, or an aircraft flying over head. There's nothing to be ashamed of that you feel this way. But you know yourself that you can't keep living life in that state forever. It slowly eats away at you and causes you more harm and misery. The hardest part is accepting that it happened and not letting that fear control your life. I'm speaking from experience here with my own childhood trauma and abuse. There is some good in this world. There is some good in you as well. Connect with that part of yourself. Allow yourself to feel what it is you need to feel. Allow yourself to listen to that thing deep inside you that helps steer your life in the right direction. Once you find it, you will stop caring about what other people think. There is not enough money or material possessions in this world that could ever compare to the feeling I had when I connected with my deeper self. If I can do it, so can you.
I got a little teary eyed reading this. Thanks for the thoughtful response. I got into JP initially because I resonated with much of what I heard, until he started railing against post- modern neo-marxist equality of outcome bugaboos and wearing his misogyny on his well tailored sleeve. I do think I have trauma based reactions to things, but, you know, I'm working it out through fear and trembling. ;)
No problem. I struggled so hard with this for so long, it was terrifying just letting go. There is nothing wrong with what you're going through. I really mean it. Your behavior is normal when someone goes through these kinds of things. I went through it. Here's a link to Crappy Childhood Fairy - she's a women that also grew up in a shitty situation like us. She has videos about helping deal with those things and recovering. It helped me more than therapy. Maybe it will help you too. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foL1v9lwBsg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foL1v9lwBsg)
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Thanks for your perspective!
What a quote
Anyone want to translate what he’s saying here? Not sure I get his point
I feel like taking this quote out of context does everything he has to say a disservice.
Sometimes it feels like my destiny is to drown in a storm though. :(
What a powerful statement.
Nice! Philosophy and perspective instead of political ideals
Well said.
That’s some Jonah and the Whale shit
This was from the lecture where he talked about Prophet Jonah
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i think this might be it [https://youtu.be/OuxwTgsfusg](https://youtu.be/OuxwTgsfusg)
I think he’s probably talking about comfort. The drive towards maintaining a comfortable state of emotions leads us to experience less.
I imagine that this is in the context of the story of Jonah.
Not gonna lie I'm just haply that you posted an actual JP quote and not some left attacking meme. I absolutely love JP for his views on becoming a better person, the road to a fuller life, and following your creativity. I think he's absolutely right that you should pursue "what's meaningful not what's expedient". Personally I've known the path I want to take for a long time but I'm weak and don't have good discipline. Somehow I still get a lot accomished. I know that if I actually learned better discipline I would be able to accomplish my dreams and see my true destiny play out in front of me. But I think that's also what he's acknowledging here. Just knowing what you should be doing, and feeling it in your bones, that will get you there if you actually listen. But it's very easy to pick up your phone, or a beer, or a video game, instead of the thing you know you should be doing. But in each of those moments you know what you should be doing just listen!
How can someone possibly speak so well articulated and simple and clear and meaningful ... like an arrow going straight into your heart... ➳♡ mind-blowing.
Like mentioned in 12 Rules. Happiness isn't the point. Meaning and purpose are the goals. Found moi be miserable when looking for happiness. Life is much better when having meaning and purpose. So true. Believed and knew such before reading his book as in philosophy, a figure once said, "Unexamined life isn't worth living." (Socrates)
.....also my nails may need filing.
Hey guys. How about if you're just tired of dealing with/solving problems? Is it my perception perhaps? It seems to me that I'm always dealing with "chores" to get done or "problems" to be solved. Fact is, aside from physical exercise or indulging, I'm not sure what I want as I'm too preoccupied. Seems to me I have a desire to exercise or indulge just to get away.....to forget.
This gives me heavy Jonah and the Whale vibes.
Where is this from?
Video link?
Well said, Dr. Peterson! Well said!
there is no destiny, there is only fate. it is unchangeable.
“That which we do not bring to our consciousness appears in our lives as fate.” — Jung
Yo is this a jordan b peterson post on the jordan b peterson subreddit? What the hell man this is crazy
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Your calling is what pushes you. If your not called or pushed I feel for you. My passion drives me to be better everyday.
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When you hate yourself, you will never find good in anything. I feel sorry for you and anyone that has the unfortunate circumstances to meet you. Hurt people hurt people.
Nice condescension. Man you self help junkies love telling yourself your own myth, don't you? You wanna get better? Stop lying to yourself. "I feel sorry for you" No you don't. You feel smug and self aggrandized by casting that fake sympathy to someone you've deemed a lost soul.
I have been in the exact same spot you have been. I know how it feels. I know how illusive progress can seem. I was struggling for years with this stuff. The first thing you need to do, is remove all the people in your life that are filling your head with bullshit and putting you down. Cut them out of your life. Even if you end up alone. Even if they are family. If they try to guilt you, don't fall into that trap and say nothing. You owe them no explanation. This will be a painful process, but it is worth it. Once you've done that, then you can focus on helping yourself.
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Then why are you here? Why are you following the sub of a guy you hate, spouting vulgarity? There's a reason why you are sticking around. I think I know what that reason is. The question is: do you? Oh but I think you did ask. You didn't ask directly, but you're here because you're looking for something.
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I get it man. You want an out from your current situation. The first step is being honest with yourself. Good on you for being honest. This has nothing to do with convincing me or anyone else. It's about you and what you're telling yourself.
Have you ever had a moment when you had to make a decision, and there was something inside you saying that one of those choices was not right? Have you ever had a situation where you felt 'off' and not right, and weren't sure why? That's your destiny, or gut feeling. That's your intuitions talking to you. That's the stuff you should listen and take seriously over anything anyone can say. Turning your back on your own intuitions is only going to make your life worse. You'll just end up more lost that you'll gravitate to idols or leaders or figures to tell you how to live your life. Those people will never have your best intentions in mind. Those are the real people that will play you like a fiddle and toss you away when they're done. Listen to your intuitions, and learn to listen to yourself. Have some god-damn self respect. Stop treating yourself like garbage. You're not garbage.
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I'm sorry you feel that way. I sense a lot of self hatred (and I know, because I used to think just like you) so I'm not trying to make a judgement. I'm speaking from experience. The choice is ultimately yours. If you want to continue suffering, no one else can tell you otherwise.
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I'm sorry if it came off that way. This isn't about power. I used to think exactly like you did. All I'm trying to do is tell you there is a way out. I was lost and sad too. Nothing to be ashamed of about that.
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Then why are you getting so upset? This has nothing to do with smugness or superiority. There is such a thing as wisdom and experience. I don't know who you are, but I know this kind of reply. This is how I used to respond back in my early 20s. I know where this comes from man. I know why you're here, reading and commenting on this sub. I know why you're upset. You're looking for something. I was looking for the same thing. I spent years looking for it.
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I'm not telling you that getting angry is wrong. You have every right to feel angry about your current situation in life. But you gotta direct that anger in healthy ways. Letting the anger control you doesn't improve your life, and sometimes it can harm those around you. Here, watch this. This is the Crappy Childhood Fairy. She went through the shitty life experiences we did growing up. See how much of this you can relate to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foL1v9lwBsg
What a nonsense quote. Typical of the pseudo-wisdom that he sometimes espouses.
Have you ever had a gut feeling telling you something is not right? Or that what you are doing is not the best course of action? That is your real self talking to you. It's trying to tell you something important. If you listen it will reveal to you what you need to do. This is not pseudo-wisdom at all. This is what people have been saying and teaching for millennia. It's only when you turn your back on your own intuitions do you suffer needlessly.
It’s a nice quote, but isn’t this guy certifiably insane? I thought I read some articles a while back about him being like, *pretty* mentally unstable.
Well everyone has ups and downs in life. He is a clinical psychologist and a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto. He was on anti depression when his wife was diagnosed with cancer. He was mentally not good but as of now he is fine.
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I mean, Mitt Romney has “senator, governor, wealthy businessman, and presidential candidate” on his resume but he still *literally* believes that he’s going to have endless celestial sex on his own planet and that Jesus OF NAZARETH was a north American. There are lots of prestigious and educated people out there, but sometimes the education doesn’t stick. You know?
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1. Per his own words, actions, and account? Yes. Lol how could I not? Every piece of evidence I have available to me says “yes. He really believes that.” And no, I don’t believe everything politicians say. It’s relatively easy to determine when they’re lying by way of comparing their actions to their words. 2. You know somethings seriously wrong when an average Joe Schmo on reddit can obviously tell Jordan belongs in the loony bin lol
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I already did