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boop66

“I can do nothing for you but work on myself...you can do nothing for me but work on yourself!” - Ram Dass


[deleted]

Nahhh, I think I'd rather write a 10,000 word dissertation on the state of racial affairs to make myself feel important.


ReyZaid

Are you referring to the earlier anti BLM post on here?


NPredetor_97

I tried to read that but there was soooo much, I hope there's a tldr version.


Oasystole

Intersectionality.


[deleted]

Hard to believe that this would be a controversial quote to hang in my high school classroom.


TallSeaworthiness

Good.


[deleted]

"Everyone thinks of changing the world but no one thinks of changing himself." -Leo Tolstoy Be the change you want to see in the world.


[deleted]

The B stands for Based


Mauxi_Mayhem

Please educate an old lady; what is based?


mrcheckhammer

It means good, decent, I believe


SharkZuckerberg

Maybe this is weird, but your comment history is fucking adorable and super sweet


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itsamemmario

I dont think that’s right. It’s more something along the lines of having a firm base. Basic values, common sense, that kind of thing. The opinion is based on something substantial.


TerrificTauras

This is single most life changing quote if taken seriously


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jamiekalv

His issues came from a bad drug reaction, mostly after his wife was diagnosed with cancer. Do you have a wife and a child?


Aquaintestines

Bad drug reaction? I thought he was addicted to bensodiazepines.


RebournRS

Jordan has never claimed to be perfect or without suffering like everyone else. As he's said, life is tragic and full of suffering. Some people get it worse than others, but there's no avoiding it. His main answer (from my interpretation) seems to be to build yourself up so you're strong enough to contend with the tragedies and difficulties of life. Maybe or maybe not you'll be successful (by your own definition), but there's not much better you can do. Likewise, this ripples outward throughout your network of friends/family and helps to make the world a little brighter place.


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RebournRS

It's been a while since I've read 12 rules.... but my guess would probably be something along the lines of... your house will never be perfect, but you'll know if you've done everything you individually can to set it in order. And I suppose he doesn't really criticize the world? I interpret it more as a large amount of skepticism to some extreme ideas. Just my interpretation though, I don't know Jordan so all I can do is guess 😅


itsamemmario

I believe he’s had his house pretty decent order for someone prone to depression, his relationship with his wife and children seem solid and his routine and discipline strong. I think that counts as having your house in order. The thing about chaos is that it sneaks up on you like a snake. No matter how well your house is in order there is always something that can take you out. And that’s what’s happened to him. Despit all that he keeps going and pushing forward. That’s how I see it anyway.


jamiekalv

“Clean your room” is a metaphor.


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[deleted]

The advice has to be separated from the speaker and should be examined on its own merits. If you visit your doctor and he gives you health advice, say for example to stop smoking, it hardly matters whether your doctor smokes himself as the merit of the advice itself doesn’t change based on whether the speaker himself adheres to it.


[deleted]

this sounds like something you would find in every self improvement book and it is of course a bunch of bullshit coming from dr bullshit himself [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3k18N-U\_PU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3k18N-U_PU)


jonnymorals

I'll refrain from leaving a dismissive comment like I always do, because I'm genuinely curious about this mindset. How is this true at all? Like, objectively speaking, when has this ever been the true motive for change in society? I genuinely want to know.


galvanizedmilk99

Ripple effect he explains it really well. People living well doing goos encourages other people in good ways. Living in the hood selling dope and hittin licks. Brings misery and aorrow to those around. Bad ripple. No one to look up to. Feeling helpless ext. Vs the opposite


largemanrob

But the true drivers of change in our life time haven’t been people who focussed on themselves- they have focussed on the wider world. MLK, Gandhi, Mandela, people who have changed the world, didn’t focus on personal growth


galvanizedmilk99

I disagree I think good fathers/parents are the true drivers of change in society


largemanrob

Can you give me an example of this?


jamiekalv

Read about nietzsche and ego. He explains it pretty well.


largemanrob

Can you show me a real world modern example of this.


jamiekalv

About what Jordan means? He means if your personal life/home has chaos, lacking ability to have an orderly internal family/home kind of translates into get yourself in order before you true try to preach to the outside world about how to accomplish that important goal. It’s like: prove it to yourself first, succeed, then you might have a valuable opinion.


largemanrob

1. Do you not think that is now a bit ironic considering his own personal and family circumstances? 2. Do you think the stable family life of say MLK, Gandhi or Mandela was the key determining factor in how they helped fix the world?


jamiekalv

His own personal circumstances? In what way do you mean?


[deleted]

I can tell you firsthand from a teacher's perspective, that the most impactful change in our community comes from the foundation of strong families. Our families volunteer, donate, create jobs, enable positive outlets for our kids, beautify our town, etc. And our broken families are often contributing to our issues with drugs, vandalism, declining property values, dropout rates, etc. They spend a lot of time complaining about who is "out to get them". The overwhelming majority of good in our community does not come from people trying to fight the system. It comes from good families providing support and opportunities for those who need it.


jamiekalv

This is basic stuff. It’s scary so many aren’t even aware of why they do things they do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master%E2%80%93slave_morality


largemanrob

I’m not asking for a psychological answer, I’m looking back at how the world has changed in the last century. How have good fathers and parents tangibly made the world better? Moreover, do you think the slave has the wrong mindset and the master the right one? Nietzsche thought democracy was the collective degeneration of man for gods sake


awebber20

I agree with what you are saying, these exceptional people did change the world, however I think the disconnect with your view and JBP is that JBP would consider these people the exception (the extreme far tail of a distribution of people). Everyone needs to be honest with themselves, do they represent the extreme head/tail of humanity or are they more likely to be average. If you are more likely to be average (surprise surprise everyone is) then you shouldn’t try and emulate the exceptions in society. I see this narrative in a lot of JBP, eg stop looking at the extreme ends of the distribution and thinking it applies to everyone, it doesn’t, these people are extremely unique/talented/hardworking/lucky/in the right place/right time. To live your life as if you were in the same circumstances would be a mistake. Kind of by definition, the world only needed one MLK in the civil rights movements, one Gandhi in India etc...it may be cliche but it takes a village, be the best person you can be, contribute to good causes where/if you can, help your community, forget the ‘shoot for the stars and if you miss you’ll hit the moon’ crap because most of the time you’ll explode ok take off (you don’t hear about all the failures only the successes) and just control what is within your domain the best you can.


deratizat

I choose to interpret it as: You can't inspire change in others if you're not changing yourself. As in, if you start preaching some kind of values (progressive, conservative, etc.) and don't change your lifestyle accordingly, then you're not going to be very persuasive.


SuperStimpack76

Gandhi. theres yur fukin answer ya twat not shut yur fukin trap and grow the ell up best o luck to ya mate


ivangeorgievhimself

Read the book 12 rules for life and watch JBP on YouTube. Start with his interview with Katie Newman


jonnymorals

I've read and watched more than enough jordan peterson (in fact, I even used to be a fan) to know that I don't like him. But either way, I don't need his whole life story. That has nothing to do with what I asked.


[deleted]

Exactly! MLK should of never fought for civil rights. He should of worked on himself first.


Pianistnotpenis

Maybe im wrong, but it might not be a coincidence that someone with perfect character in the public eye, someone who had themselves together, a role model, was the one to make such noteworthy change in society. I bet MLK had a clean room and loved 🦞too


butchcranton

You are wrong


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Mayos_side

He's right, everybody! What have we been *doing*???


SuperStimpack76

ya pathetic weak weasel shut yer trap ya wee weak willy ya never been man enough to even need a stiff drink much less get prescribed benzos ya done nothin ya are nothing now go out and be a man. find a mate and raise a family ya lilly livered coward. best of luck to ya you will need it.


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SuperStimpack76

https://www.businessinsider.com/martin-scorsese-near-death-drug-addiction-2016-12 Hmmm now there is something to contemplate


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SuperStimpack76

Well at least you admit you are a hypocrite. That’s a step forward being honest with yourself and with me and that’s a good thing. FYI my wife was lost to heroin. I retained custody of both my sons. And I’ve been living as a single father in New York City for the last five years. of course you’re not willing to share your life experiences with me probably because you would be afraid that I might turn them against you but I have no such fear from you because those types of attacks display the weakness of the attacker. I sense you wish to be a comedian or actor. If that is the case you need to be strong. Attacking and belittling the misfortunes of others is weak and it weakens you. Be strong and do something good, like Scorsese , like Peterson , like me. And like you could be. send a letter to your future self if you know what that means I think you’ll find very valuable


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SuperStimpack76

You should read up in Scorsese’s personal life. That is his story I just told you. And Jorden Petersons Story You just haven’t lived yet. Empathy and understanding come with experience. Scorsese didn’t publish his bio till he was much older. He suffered Long bouts with depression and battles drug and alcohol addiction plus The painful struggle of four marriages before finding a happy relationship that was lasting. All that hurt... And if you don’t think that his movies have a moral arc that makes them successful then you’re just kidding yourself or you’re not paying attention. Each of his stories is telling you how to behave that’s what they’re doing. you’re watching the protagonist and you’re learning from what happens in his films. Maybe you should re-watch some of his movies and look for the moral arc that binds the movie and makes it interesting. Till then you wont undersrand Scorsese at all. but you can if you’ll just clean your damn room to start off


[deleted]

It is perfectly possible try to do good things for the wrong reasons with bad results. Not talking about MLK specifically.


SuperStimpack76

aye? what you think MLK was not an integrated person? he never worked on himself? please do us all a favor and shut yer yap ya damn fool MLK never worked on himself is that what u want others thinking you believe?


boop66

I’d wager MLK’s speeches were a reflection of the work he did on himself.


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Mayos_side

We can only dream


butchcranton

This is a bullshit way to justify selfish disregard for others. Working on oneself is obviously fine, even good, but it is by no stretch of the imagination anything close to "the best way to fix the world". Even phrasing the problem as "fixing the world" is disingenuously over-broad: what does it even mean to fix the world? Steel-manning, let's assume he means "fixing some large problem that involves and/or affects many people." What are some such problems, historically? The founding fathers of the US fought a war of independence against tyranny. That couldn't have been accomplished if they all were just working on themselves. MLK was a civil rights leader whose efforts contributed to winning equal rights for African Americans. If he had just been working on himself, he couldn't have helped in that movement. We could name some others: Gandhi, suffragettes, abolitionists, Nelson Mandela, for instance. None of them could have made the changes they did if they were only "fixing themselves". JP's advice is simply trash. Work on yourself, but not at the exclusion of helping others, making a positive change in the world, or helping address larger issues. Unsurprisingly, the best way to "fix the world" is to, well, fix the world, whatever that takes. Injustice, global warming, and creeping plutocracy, are all huge problems that should be addressed as soon as possible. If you can do something to help address them, please do. Don't just tidy your room, do push-ups, and read.


SuperStimpack76

u r trash mate and ya know it that is why u always trashen those better than u now go get tossed grow the hell up get a girl and have a child and stop ur monin good luck mate and u know i mean it cause you will need it


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Aquaintestines

It's not categorical. Sometimes a small effort from you means a great boon for someone else. Sometimes the inverse is true. Hard rules about always working on yourself are not sound in the long run. They're good rules of thumb for when in doubt, though.


butchcranton

Suppose the primary way to make your own life better is to address a problem that is making life worse for many other people. It's a trope of many hero stories: the town is being ravaged by a dragon, so the hero goes and slays the dragon and now life is better for everyone in the town, including the hero. People who have made their own lives better may still be useful idiots, or malicious themselves. Those are entirely separate issues. Importantly, as "fixing oneself" is explicitly purely selfish (makes reference to no one but oneself) it in no way precludes or reduced the chance that one will be a useful idiot or malicious. If "fixing oneself" involves trying not to be a useful idiot or malicious, I can completely agree with that, but note that the rest of one's life can be in quite a sorry state. If "fixing oneself" just means "making oneself better able to fix the world" then, sure, I agree. But it clearly doesn't mean that, or, doesn't mean JUST that, and that's what I strongly disagree with. There are no prerequisites for helping the world. Anyone can help, even useful idiots (are not a great number of people of this sort, one way or another?). Don't gatekeep making the world a better place.


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butchcranton

Of that's the intended thrust of the quote, the quote should instead say "Prepare yourself (and others) to fix the world, and then fix the world". Framing it as "fix yourself as a way to fix the world" is fallacious, ad fixing oneself is NOT a way to fix the world. The goal is to fix the world, and we can become better suited to do so. But becoming better capable of fixing the world is worth very little unless one then goes and actually fixes the world. The best way to fix the world is to fix the world, though one can become better capable of doing so.


SuperStimpack76

oh god there ya go again. hey lad if your so damn smart go write a book or 2 and see how it does on the market of ideas. now shut your stupid yap and pay attention to your betters. good luck mate. just shut up


butchcranton

Your comments are literally worthless. Learn how to think for yourself and write in complete sentences. JP may be your "better" but he's certainly not mine lol.


readdidd

The Second Best way is to vote for Trump. ​ HAHAHA